Lion of the Blogosphere

It’s tough for Asian-Americans to get admitted to elite universities

The percent of Asians enrolled at the most elite universities has plateaued since the 1990s even though the percent of the 18-21 year-old U.S. population that is Asian has soared since then.

To make things even worse for Asian-Americans, an increasing share of the Asian quota at elite schools is going to rich Chinese nationals instead of Asian-Americans.

See article at Quartz.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

April 28, 2014 at 9:22 AM

Posted in Education

62 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. It appears even at UC Berkeley that enrollment for Asian-Americans has plateaued but enrollment for internationals have gone up….weird considereding public colleges are supposed to serve the citizens of their state?

    http://diversity.berkeley.edu/undergraduate-students-current-census

    Kant

    April 28, 2014 at 9:43 AM

    • Supposed to- but when they can charge out of state tuition that’s often three or four times more,the incentives shift.

      Chucks

      May 6, 2014 at 2:22 PM

  2. Giving precious seats in our elite universities to foreigners or immigrants is just one more sign of the suicide cult that Western Civilization has become. NO seats should go to non-Americans, much less to a competitor/enemy state like China. These seats are in effect long-term strategic weapons for a nation, and to farm them out to foreigners because they have cash and/or based on some psychotic notion of “diversity uber alles” is in effect moral depravity, yet it rides the horse of righteousness. We’re doomed.

    peterike

    April 28, 2014 at 9:50 AM

    • Elite Universities have a glut of upper middle class and wealthy SWPLs.

      JS

      April 28, 2014 at 11:06 AM

      • Let me be more precise. What matters in these schools are the seats in science and technology. I doesn’t really matter to America if a bunch of Chinese go to Harvard and major in Comparative Literature or Gender Studies. It matters a great deal if they major in chemistry and physics, especially at the graduate school level, and then take that training back to China with them.

        Elite schools are genuinely elite in science and tech and medicine. The output from these schools in terms of PhDs is small but vital to the nation because top tier scientists are crucial to future economic success and technical advantage over rivals. Giving these seats to foreigners is tantamount to treason.

        peterike

        April 28, 2014 at 12:35 PM

      • @peterike

        the *reason* that they are “elite” in science and engineering is because talented foreigners work and teach on the faculty there. If the schools couldn’t recruit talented foreigners and had to deal with the domestic crop, they would no longer be so “elite”.

        crazy_shit

        April 28, 2014 at 2:49 PM

      • Most SWPLs don’t care for the hard sciences. They just want to coast school and labor hard at a value transference career, after graduation that passes off as “high” status, that is overly emphasized by many of the commentators on this blog.

        Allowing more proles into them would be the answer, but do proles show a strong interest in the math and sciences, not as much those foreigners who are taking those slots in droves.

        JS

        April 28, 2014 at 3:30 PM

      • Proles tend to be practical. They naively think that wealth has to do with creating value.

        Except for guidos, who want to be slick-talking salesmen rather than value creators.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        April 28, 2014 at 3:36 PM

      • A lot of college and grad students, especially the European ones, tend to stay in the US when they are done. I think a limited amount of high-IQ immigration is a good thing.

        BehindTheLines

        April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

      • >>>and then take that training back to China with them.

        Would it be that they went back home afterwards, it wouldn’t be so bad then. The BS/MS/PH.D is the anchor. It is all part of the scam.

        Daniel

        April 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM

      • So engineering departments were never elite until foreigners went into them? It’s like saying no one could pick fruit until the illegals came.

        map

        April 28, 2014 at 8:12 PM

      • Proles tend to be practical. They naively think that wealth has to do with creating value.

        Proles are usually the 1st ones to call out those who are entitled or lazy, not realizing that our economy ensures only a small % who will profit from their labor, that is those who are engaged in value transference work.

        JS

        April 28, 2014 at 10:09 PM

      • “the *reason* that they are “elite” in science and engineering is because talented foreigners work and teach on the faculty there. If the schools couldn’t recruit talented foreigners and had to deal with the domestic crop, they would no longer be so “elite”.

        lol.

        Yes I’m sure the domestic talent responsible for such retarded inventions as “the transistor” and creations like the “Boeing 747” will never be able to keep up without an endless stream of uncommunicative asian robots in the labs and lecture halls.

        Burt Derplson

        April 29, 2014 at 6:13 PM

    • Foreign college students are favored because they have to pay full freight upfront because they aren’t eligible for student aid. College is a giant financial scam just to have classes where a professor/TA reads off of powerpoints for 45-75 minutes.

      Other than hands on training in a lab for medicine or engineering, everything taught on campus can be taught better online.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      April 28, 2014 at 10:23 PM

  3. I wonder how many of their black students are African immigrants vs US blacks. Elite schools seem much tougher to attend for anyone without rich parents. Middle class whites don’t get in at high rates either. If you’re in NYC, you can go to CUNY which has more Asians. The schools have become higher quality since they dropped race admissions. It’s not elite, but CUNY seems more prestigious today than in the 90’s.

    Taylor

    April 28, 2014 at 9:57 AM

    • Not all CUNYs!

      There are CUNY schools with a large contingent of NAMs, such as BMCC, City College and the John Jay School of Criminal Justice.

      Middle Class Whites in NYC go to real prole schools such as Fordham University, or they go to NYU or some other school that offers things besides boring school work.

      Asians are only about studying.

      JS

      April 28, 2014 at 11:01 AM

      • How dare Asians take school seriously instead of getting drunk all the time!

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        April 28, 2014 at 11:24 AM

      • I’ve had blacks tell me that studying is acting white. That’s the perspective of underclass.

        Taylor

        April 28, 2014 at 12:19 PM

      • I saw a study where people asked blacks why they didn’t participate in more college extracurriculars. The responses were that doing the activities were “acting white” and “geeky”. Notice that blacks equate these two things, which is more evidence for the hypothesis that geeks are “hyperwhite”.

        BehindTheLines

        April 28, 2014 at 4:20 PM

    • I wonder how many of their black students are African immigrants vs US blacks.

      At Harvard 50% of blacks are foreigners and/or mixed race according to Henry Louis Gates Jr. Just like his friend Obama.

      dsgntd_plyr

      April 28, 2014 at 11:42 AM

      • I doubt it’s 50%. If you stretch the definition to include the children of foreigners, however, I’d say the percentage is probably significantly greater than 50%.

        I’ve said it plenty of times before here: the only non-African / non-West Indian blacks I knew at Harvard were on either the football team or basketball team. Seriously.

        Renault

        April 28, 2014 at 2:22 PM

  4. 施耐庵

    April 28, 2014 at 10:18 AM

  5. Not so tough… This is how your model minorities become model minorities.

    http://www.commerce.gov/os/ogc/minority-business-development-agency

    I quote:

    “For purposes of determining eligibility to receive MBDA services, an MBE is defined as a business concern that is owned or controlled by the following persons or groups of persons that are also U.S. citizens or resident aliens admitted for lawful admission to the United States: African Americans, Hispanics, Asian and Pacific Islander Americans, Native Americans (including Alaska Natives, Alaska Native Corporations and Tribal entities), Asian Indians and Hasidic Jews. See 15 CFR § 1400.1 and Executive Order 11625. It is important to note that there is no cross-cutting federal MBE classification and the above definition does not serve to establish eligibility for federal programs or services outside of those offered by MBDA.”

    map

    April 28, 2014 at 10:36 AM

  6. Chinese government pays the full sticker price for many of the Chinese nationals, so it’s too good of a deal for many U.S. colleges to turn down.

    OT: Lion’s favorite congressman Michael Grimm was arrested today.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rep-michael-grimm-facing-federal-charges-will-surrender-to-fbi-sources-say/2014/04/27/fd302426-ce33-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html

    Silence of the NAMs

    April 28, 2014 at 11:14 AM

    • Guido Congressman.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      April 28, 2014 at 11:25 AM

      • More reasons for White proles to vote Republican, who tell them one thing and then turn their backs on them.

        Elephant guys will tell proles that illegal immigration take jobs away from deserving Whites, yet these guys will hire illegals just to save a buck or two.

        JS

        April 28, 2014 at 12:04 PM

      • True to form, Lion! As soon as I heard about Grimm’s “grim” news, I wondered how long it would be before this blog’s “guido-go-round” of comments would begin. What can I say? I like this blog too much to leave it. Oh, the price we’re willing to pay for interesting ideas on the internet (hey, that’s alliterative!)

        MaryK

        April 28, 2014 at 12:23 PM

      • It’s not my fault he had to go prove the guido stereotype.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        April 28, 2014 at 2:16 PM

      • “It’s not my fault he had to go prove the guido stereotype.”

        Actually, political corruption has nothing at all to do with the guido stereotype, but this also is associated with Italians, so yes, Congressman Grimm DOES lend credence to a negative image of Italians – but for a different reason. I don’t think we in the IA community have ever had any official definition of “guido” but I asked an IA boyfriend of mine in the 1980s what the difference was between a guido and a cugine. He said that guidos were just low-class (spitting in public, scratching the genitals, foul-mouthed, etc..) but that cugines were less visibly “low-class” but had attitudes and were spoiled brats, and thought they were God’s gift to humanity. It looks like Mr. Grimm may be more of a cugine than a guido.

        But I guess you’re angry with me for saying I don’t want to live in a Jewish neighborhood. LOL! Don’t worry Lion, I’m no anti-Semite. If your dreaded moment ever came I’d probably get killed for hiding you in my basement. Even JS could move in and hide out there. As long as you both promise not to call me a “guidette” – and refrain from vulgar comments like JS’s “pump and dump” remark.

        MaryK

        April 28, 2014 at 2:35 PM

      • @MaryK,

        If it makes you feel any better about your heritage, we have a new exchange student intern working in my office (she’s in college) from Italy. I’ll refrain from being crude, but let’s just say that the guys are finding it very hard to work when she’s around. This girl is truly one of the prettiest women I’ve ever laid eyes on (and of course, I can’t touch her, she’s an intern . . . darn!). Anyway, most of the guys have started talking about Italian vacations.

        Curle

        April 28, 2014 at 9:47 PM

  7. It’s going to get tougher for Asians as there are less and less whites to target. They are next in line.

    Bernie

    April 28, 2014 at 11:22 AM

  8. Sigh. It’s getting harder to care about this issue because they vote 70+% for Democrats that want anti-Asian affirmative action, and more foreigners. The Asian Americans are getting what they voted for. Good and hard.

    dsgntd_plyr

    April 28, 2014 at 11:38 AM

    • Asian Americans also want Obamacare and abortions.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      April 28, 2014 at 2:13 PM

    • I don’t think republicans have ever really pushed for disbanding AA at private schools? All the supreme court cases seem to only be in regards to public institutions?

      uatu

      April 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM

    • Vietnamese in California are still strongly Republican, partly because they fled communism, are usually Christian, and are centered in Orange County, where rich whites are still strongly Republican. OC as a whole is a swing county due to Mexican immigration.

      I think they might also be the only nonwhite group to have IQ of 100 from being a mix of mostly NE Asian (102-106) invaders who mixed into a SE Asian population (90-95), and then practiced a diluted form of IQ boosting Mandarinism. The French where there for 250 years and probably left a small genetic imprint, they were laid back about mixing with the natives and prostitution, and their bilingual children had an economic advantage and big families.

      Maybe Mongolians and Tibetans also have IQ100, they are mixed Han, Turk, and Siberian.

      cybertiger

      April 28, 2014 at 11:13 PM

  9. I don’t know the percentages of wealthy foreigners vs US nationals at Harvard. But it’s not true that Asian Americans are being limited by quotas. The most recent and thorough examination of acceptance to highly selective universities was performed by a Princeton sociologist named Espenshade and published under the title No Longer Separate, Not Quite Equal. From Table 9.1 on page 344.

    Difference from observed baseline admitted if…

    No affrimative action.
    White +4.6 / Black -4.7 / Hispanic -2.1 / Asian +2.7

    No policies that had disparate impact.
    White -6.5 / Black -5.5 / Hispanic -3.2 / Asian +15.1
    Eliminating affirmative action would increase the percentages of whites and asians while reducing the percentage of blacks and hispanics. On the other hand, eliminating policies with disparate impact such as athletics, legacy admissions, etc increase the numbers of asians and reduces the numbers of everyone else. It wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they got rid of those. However, students and alumni both want those things. So it would negatively impact a school’s ability to attract top students. Those things also help to keep alumni engaged which is critical for a school to maintain itself at the top. I would point out that even Asians would prefer a school in which legacy admissions would benefit their children. And that it only has a disparate impact because there’s so much Asian immigration. In other words, Asians are so recently immigrated that they haven’t had time to become legacies. In short, claims that quotas explicitly limit Asian enrollment aren’t true.

    In fact, the Espanshade study shows the people being discriminated against the most in admissions are working class whites from flyover country. The study showed poor asians were 6 times more likely and poor blacks 10 times more likely to be accepted as equally qualified poor whites. Blacks and asians are not, however, the ones doing the discriminating. It’s wealthy whites who transfer their affirmative action burden to poor whites. Admissions comittees make more room for wealthy whites from New England by discriminating against working class whites from Wyoming, Nebraska and Alabama.

    I’d also point out that not all ethnics of the same race have the same test scores. So, for example, some of the affirmative action burden is being transferred from North East Asians like Japanese and Chinese to South East Asians like Phiipinos and Malays. Similarly, some of the AA burden is transferred from white and hispanic ethnics with higher test scores to those with lower test scores. The ethnics with lower test scores would benefit by being considered separately.

    destructure

    April 28, 2014 at 11:45 AM

    • (cont)

      I’d also point out that a lot of the AA benefits are transferred from historic black Americans to African and Caribbean immigrants as well as biracials..

      destructure

      April 28, 2014 at 11:49 AM

      • thank god libertarians still have oral roberts u.

        if admissions were based on tests only, as they are in almost the entire rest of the world, the ethnic makeup of elite colleges would be a lot more non-elite whites, almost no nams, a lot fewer asians, both east and south.

        canada uses “grades” only and its elite unis have been overrun by pushy asian grinds.

        oxbridge has no asian problem.

        jorge videla

        April 28, 2014 at 6:22 PM

      • “canada uses “grades” only and its elite unis have been overrun by pushy asian grinds.”

        This is true. My son was at UBC (University of British Columbia) and he was almost the only white kid in his biochemistry classes, and almost all science students in the university are Chinese.

        UBC = University of a Billion Chinese.

        Admission is purely by grades. No essays, no legacy, etc. My son’s parents and grandparents are UBC alumni but that gave him absolutely no advantage over a fresh off the boat Chinese.

        Rosenmops

        April 29, 2014 at 1:27 AM

      • although it should be said that canada doesn’t really have elite unis in the way the us does.

        ubc, totonto, mcgill are not HYP, HYPS, or HYPSM.

        jorge videla

        April 29, 2014 at 6:08 PM

      • but the problem is with the recent arrivals, first and second gens.

        japanese and chinese americans are almost indistinguishable from whites on the west coast. but they tend to be less ambitious. think postman or govt employee of any kind.

        jorge videla

        April 29, 2014 at 7:34 PM

  10. I’m cautious about this.

    Ideally the composition would reflect all races and creeds proportionately, excluding well-connected legacy and special/foreign students who’re part of the product of the Ivy-type college in the first place. If there’s a group IQ factor there may be some bias in the numbers there. I think this is what they’re trying to get back to. They may feel that in recent years Asian-Americans and other groups have been over-represented. Ivy-type colleges are also limited by local regulations in size, so unless they open centers elsewhere they’re in a bind as population expands and the US welcomes more foreign students.

    Part of the situation IMHO is the patricians in the US don’t send their kids to Ivy leagues except every few generations to generate more contacts or if they’re going graduate. As it seems William Gates learned, if you fool around in their stands they can imperil your wealth with 3 phone calls if you don’t play ball. Their power isn’t money but vast connections/age of presence in the US and on into Ancient Europe, and pure intelligence/intellectual capital, so they’re invisible to these studies. I suspect many go to certain High Schools often not in the US that are briefly trendy because they’re there so where they go to college doesn’t matter in the same way.

    Also, these studies tend to be ideo-politically motivated trying to make some sort of neo-communist case and so it seems to me that they miss/ignore a lot of factors. For example, Asians are confused with Asian/Americans, and 1600 SAT Asians not being admitted is already explained in that a lot of Asians are said to cheat on the SAT’s which is revealed in an interview, or simply aren’t well-rounded. The studies also obsess over the Ivy-type school and ignore the fact that many bright and locally/regionally well-connected youth go to the growing number of Honors Colleges of the various colleges or systems.

    One thing I think is for sure: The US leadership ( however defined ) is continuing its old policy of getting the emerging elites of various countries into US universities high and low. They know that China + India + Islamic Conference have maybe 12 times the super-IQ types of the US. So for a while they’ll be processing a large number of them to keep them on ‘our’ side. At the same time they’re encouraging many bright US-born kids to study abroad and start ventures in those countries.

    rob

    April 28, 2014 at 2:34 PM

    • American studying abroad in China or India is close to nil. Just very tiny numbers compared those who study abroad in Europe, and perhaps even when comparing to the Middle East. They are more White Americans who show a stronger interest in Arabic/Islamic studies than they do with East Asian areas or surprisingly, anything related to South Asia.

      JS

      April 28, 2014 at 3:48 PM

      • And a lot of this is indirectly tied to Roosh’s take on the different groups of men and their SMV value.

        JS

        April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

      • “They are more White Americans who show a stronger interest in Arabic/Islamic studies than they do with East Asian areas”

        No, the opposite is true. Chinese and Japanese are far more popular languages than Arabic in the US, and people see economic opportunity in China. There are plenty of Westerners studying Chinese in comfortable places like Taiwan.

        Peter Akuleyev

        April 29, 2014 at 4:21 AM

      • @Rob (and Peterike above) – I’m an American who obtained a postgrad degree from a super-elite Asian university, taking (and passing) the same entrance exam that the locals take, in the local language.

        It was paradoxically easier to get in and to pay for it than it would have been to enter a US Ivy, because back when I was in high school, despite top-5% SATs (~1500), I had no chance of filling my schedule with the extracurriculars that schools seem to love more than they do high IQs these days. So I would have been paying full freight had I gotten in, and on my parents’ $70k 1990s income that would have meant graduating with about $80k in debt.

        Here in Asia it’s one entrance exam, and if you pass, you pass. The scorers don’t even learn your name; you’re identified only by your number. And tuition is *cheap* assuming you’ve established residence beforehand, as I had.

        I felt less disadvantaged taking that test in what was to me a foreign language than I did trying to get into college as a nondescript middle-income white kid in the USA with no “hooks”.

        I hope to see such kids fell the US university system for other countries where they can educate themselves without the colossal debt burdens — and do a complete end-run around leftist indoctrination in the process. Even if language is a barrier, I’d like to see the UK and Australia aggressively recruit today’s 2200+ SAT Caucasian boys who would otherwise be left behind. Their countries will gain some smart young people without ever having to bear the burdens of educating them from birth to age 17.

        Kyo

        April 29, 2014 at 9:54 AM

      • Peter – Are you talking about men with low SMV who go to East Asia?

        I’ve never met any American male or female who went to East Asia for work and didn’t strike me as awkward. However, the opposite is true for those who go to the Middle East.

        Further, East Asia has a lot undesirable people that Americans don’t want to know, and I assume the food in China sucks, when compared to Middle Eastern food which seems more palatable.

        JS

        April 29, 2014 at 2:34 PM

      • This article suggests the popularity of Arabic over Chinese, when it comes to Americans studying foreign languages.

        http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/07/nation/la-na-college-languages-20101208

        JS

        April 29, 2014 at 2:38 PM

      • This is true, as an undergraduate i studied at an elite uni in Shanghai on an exchange program. Most of the foreign students knew each other, the vast majority were Korean, Japanese, and Chinese American. The number of white people of all countries combined was smaller than the Korean or Japanese contingents and almost all the white students were European (mostly French, German, and Italian).

        CA Spears

        April 29, 2014 at 4:40 PM

      • indeed.

        us unis, their faculty and staff are good targets for terrorism.

        jorge videla

        April 29, 2014 at 11:05 PM

  11. I doubt if foreign Asians and Asian-Americans are lumped into the same category.

    When I was applying to colleges, the application specifically asked if I was an American citizen or permanent resident, and IF I am an American citizen or permanent resident, told me I can choose to indicate my self-identified race (check all that apply). Colleges do not keep track of the races of foreigners; they are grouped together as “international students.”

    Another important thing to keep in mind is that lots of Asian Americans simply check “I decline to answer” which is allowed. When HYPS et al release their student demographic percentages, those who declined to answer are not included. I bet Asians are significantly more likely to decline to answer.

    AsianDude

    April 28, 2014 at 6:25 PM

    • >>Another important thing to keep in mind is that lots of Asian Americans simply check “I decline to answer”

      Yea, as if it is hard to determine the ethnicity of a Nelson Wang, or a Cindy Li

      Daniel

      April 28, 2014 at 7:38 PM

      • Futile, yes. But for statistics purposes, they are not counted. Asian American % at elite colleges are 20~25%, not 16~20% as officially reported.

        AsianDude

        April 29, 2014 at 5:52 PM

  12. Good for them that the FOBs are the ones getting ripped off. Asian-Americans have smartened up a bit in the past decade or so.

    Bilbo Baggins

    April 28, 2014 at 6:36 PM

  13. The number of Asian only-Americans has been on the decline for some time now, probably due to the high percentage of mixed marriages and couplings.

    Derk Askme

    April 28, 2014 at 7:53 PM

  14. OT: Here is an oldie but goodie from steve sailer.

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/hey-feds-theres-this-thing-called.html

    map

    April 28, 2014 at 10:25 PM

  15. Are Asians a social black hole in colleges? If they only hang out with other Asians and then don’t spend much time doing anything but studying, then yes. Noah Smith has a good post about what college is for, he mentions motivation, expanding options, developing relationships/networks, and I would add, learning to exert/assert social prowess in a wide-open social situation. The top of any business is tribal warfare between and within different groups, and you don’t learn that sort of thing by sticking your nose in a chemistry book, but you might learn that sort of thing on a sports team/frat/club/student coop. So colleges might have good reasons for favoring the work hard/play hard types over the grinds.

    bjk

    April 29, 2014 at 7:48 AM

    • A question (addressed to everyone): Why is It that when white students work hard and achieve they’re deemed to be intelligent and superior, but when Asians do the same thing they’re dismissed as “grinds” or portrayed as people who turn their children into little zombies in order to get them into prestigious colleges? It just seems to me that there’s a double standard.

      MaryK

      April 29, 2014 at 11:11 AM

      • Because a lot of whites fear Asians as their primarily competitors after they have been exposed to them, but they also look down on them for not being white and not acting Western (speaking of FOBs)…so it is like “they don’t deserve to do that good, must be inferior somehow…” Get used to sharing power and the world, the last 200 years were a fluke…Asia is ascendant. It does not mean Asians will take over the world, doubtful, but it does mean that whites will have to do something they haven’t had to do in centuries: Share power and sometimes take a subordination position. The next 100-150 years is going to be quite interesting.

        CA Spears

        April 29, 2014 at 4:44 PM

      • Whites built this country. Asians are paying their dues.

        jack

        April 30, 2014 at 7:31 PM

  16. Kyo, thanks for the datum. What country was your Asian U. and how have things gone since then?

    rob

    April 29, 2014 at 1:02 PM

  17. here’s something on atc today http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=308057862&m=308377864.

    it confirms what i’ve said so many times.

    so far as elite status is determined by elite credentials the american elite is a bunch of pushy, obedient, strivers and much much much dumber than that of other developed countries and of some developing countries in terms of iq.

    jorge videla

    April 30, 2014 at 9:46 PM


Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: