Lion of the Blogosphere

Male virginity shaming

I found this on Reddit, and it’s so well written I will repeat it below:

Want to help prevent another Elliot Rodgers? Speak out against male virginity shaming!

Male virginity shaming is a serious problem in western cultures. Admitting that you’re male virgin in a college sets you up with continuous mockery from your peers and guaranteed social isolation. If you’re a male virgin in college I highly recommend you hide this fact, it is sad that you have to do this, but it honestly is the best option.

I am no longer virgin (I got a girlfriend late in college), but while I was a virgin I was treated horribly in college.

Before I start listing examples from my life, let me say that 65% of the male virginity shaming I experienced was conducted by men, often in the presence of women, and 35% was instigated by women.

1) Men would mention my virginity to any girl I was flirting with in a party.

2) People in my dorm thought it was funny to shout that I was virgin loudly in public, I was the only one in my floor.

3) I was constantly harassed about my virginity; jokes were constantly said about getting me a hooker, because “obviously” I had no shot on my own.

4) An internet meme was shared about me focusing on my lack of sexual experience.

5) I was constantly made fun of for not wanting to sleep with a random girl. Personally, I figured if I was virgin at 20 years old I might as well wait for someone special.

6) Groups of Women, who learned from men that I was a virgin, would talk about how undesirable I am because of my virginity.

7) The jokes continued without my presence, I realized this while on facebook.

There is a whole lot more that I have chosen to forget.

Apart from the way people treated me, I have noticed that college campuses actually contribute to the idea that “if your not having sex your looser a who’s missing out.” For example, in the dorms in my school there were these posters (often put up by the obsessively sex positive women’s center) EVERYWHERE advertising “Sex Safety Condom Olympics” with the words, “Valentines Day ended but you’re still having sex.” How the hell is this acceptable?! If you’re a virgin or someone in a dryspell seeing these posters make you feel like shitty and frustrated. It creates the illusion that everyone around you is having constant sex while you’re alone by yourself. We need to stop treating virgins like a freak of nature.

I genuinely think that I was handed a bad hand when it came to interacting with women. I grew up in an Asian American family in which I never witnessed romantic male-female interaction. My family did not hold casual conversations, we only spoke about schoolwork. Before I had a shot with girls, I had to be properly socialized which took a couple years in college. The people shitting on me for being a virgin, grew up in normal upper-middle class white families. They never understood how much of shock college was for me. I think many socially awkward male virgins in college are also the products of similar socially inept environments.

Whether anyone choses to be a virgin to wait for the right girl, or if someone can’t not get laid because of their behavior, it’s none of our business. If we are going to be in a liberal world in which sex is no big deal, then not having sex should be no big deal as well. Male virginity shaming is not acceptable. It hurts people and it makes people angry and bitter. I can speak from personal experience.

It’s been so long since I’ve been in college that even I am surprised at the extent to which losing virginity in high school has become such a social norm and source of shame for men who are still virgins when they become old enough to vote.

When a Sociology professor at Penn did an anonymous survey, of this and other things, a significant percentage of respondents were virgins, even seniors (if I remember correctly, 16% of seniors were virgins and 50% of freshmen). That was in the late 1980s. So at that time, still being a virgin when starting college was normal. And being a virgin when a senior, while in the minority, was still enough within the norm so that it wasn’t weird and freakish.

I think that point #6 is especially poignant. “Groups of Women, who learned from men that I was a virgin, would talk about how undesirable I am because of my virginity.” Thus male virginity can lead to a vicious circle in which the fact of virginity makes the man undesirable to women thus decreasing the chance of losing the virginity.

Based on this message, I guess the advice for parents of male children is to make sure they have sex when they are in high school so they don’t end up the weirdo in their freshman college dorm.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

May 28, 2014 at 9:53 AM

Posted in Males and Females

76 Responses

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  1. Haven’t read the autobiography, but did Elliot ever consider getting drunk to hit on girls? works for a lot of guys I know…

    vic

    May 28, 2014 at 9:54 AM

    • Yes he did get drunk, but he had such anxiety that it wasn’t enough to overcome it.

    • Getting drunk can be a double edged sword. Especially for socially awkward people, they are liable to become even stranger socially.

      XVO

      May 28, 2014 at 10:50 AM

      • And if you do actually get a girl willing to get naked with you, the alcohol may inhibit your performance, which will make things *even worse*.

        Anthony

        May 28, 2014 at 12:24 PM

      • Yes, being even mildly intoxicated kills my Game. One of the things that’s interesting about Game is that it primarily benefits the smarter set, who are better able to understand the concepts. I don’t need the alcohol to overcome anxiety or shyness (which I don’t suffer from) and so all it does is make me slower-witted, as well as more talkative in a Beta sort of way.

        Samson J.

        May 28, 2014 at 4:01 PM

  2. Virginity shaming is a part of African cultures. Draw the conclusions you wish…

    Thomas

    May 28, 2014 at 10:25 AM

  3. Harvard polls the freshman class every year – this year, from what I recall, 50% or more of the entering freshman class were virgins.

    vic

    May 28, 2014 at 10:25 AM

    • vic

      May 28, 2014 at 10:26 AM

      • If anything, this demonstrates how Elliott would have been much better off if he could have been directed to a more academic track where he’d have mingled with people like those Harvard students instead of sex-crazed Hollywood types.

      • And the nerdy girls at the Ivy Leagues, some of them would have liked him for what he was, socially awkward, as they have something in common.

        I’m looking forward to Renault to refute you, because I think Harvard has a social hierarchy, and the popular students are very into sex, where the alpha nerds get most of the action.

        But seriously, he could have hung out with Asians anywhere like many beta White men do, who have no place in high status – SWPL circles, or even prole gatherings, as you can see that UCSB seems rather prolier than a school like Harvard.

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 10:55 AM

      • @ JS

        This doesn’t really surprise me. Even at the top (I played a top-of-the-food-chain sport and was in one of the “cool” final clubs), people still aren’t getting laid as much as they might wish or claim. Most end up pairing off just as they do in other schools — there is most certainly no sexual free-for-all at Harvard, not even for your typical “alpha” guys.

        In hindsight? I should have focused my sexual efforts on some of the very attractive nerds that our campus had plenty of rather than on the typical social types (rich girls, cool kids, other athletes, etc.).

        Renault

        May 28, 2014 at 2:15 PM

      • @JS

        There are two tiers of public Uni in CA. There is the UC system (top-tier), and the Cal State. The premier party school in the UC system is UCSB. For instance, they are legendary for their Halloween parties. Kids from LA have been known to drive up for the event.

        People selecting to go to UCSB know what they are getting themselves into. (Academically they are bizarrely strong in mathematics and microbiology. Go figure.)

        Being around that environment is practically cyanide to someone like Rodger.

      • Lion, some say he would be better off if he was taller, or (gasps had a less “entitled” prole background). But clearly he would be much better off if he were more intelligent. It is not that he made “dumb” decisions, but would have forged himself an academic identity by having more success, even if he didn’t do anything to “earn” it. At least he would have more confidence to pursue more ambitious academic goals and he would find a refuge from the demanding social world.

        Latias

        May 28, 2014 at 7:28 PM

    • His parents should have sent him to a STEM university. Obviously he was not MIT material but they could have found a less selective STEM school.

      SC

      May 28, 2014 at 11:41 AM

  4. This above is a good reason aganist going to a public college in the US. This “shaming” would not had happened at MIT, Harvard, and other nerdy schools. A decent amount of people there are virgins too.

    Kant

    May 28, 2014 at 10:28 AM

    • This demonstrates the value of directing nerdy children to nerdy schools and not to non-academic party schools where they will be out of place.

      • This demonstrates most of all that American culture now draws heavily on African-American culture, except in a few isolated places.

        Thomas

        May 28, 2014 at 10:39 AM

      • Thomas – White America is now a lily White NAMification process.

        http://www.returnofkings.com/2090/how-black-america-has-predicted-our-future

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 10:59 AM

      • Exactly. He would have done just fine at any university that ends in “Institute of Technology”.

        SC

        May 28, 2014 at 11:42 AM

      • He would do very well in the Bay Area with rest of the herbivore Asian guys or White Omega nerds with very restrictive geek interests.

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 12:03 PM

  5. When I was in HS virtually all of my friends lied about getting laid. It was understood that you never pushed anyone on their claims because it was bad form and because everyone lied about it. Is it ethical to lie under such situations? Read the post you shared and reach your own conclusions.

    Curle

    May 28, 2014 at 10:38 AM

    • Fake it until you make it. Perhaps teenagers need to be taught that and how it’s applied in real life. Especially low confidence teenagers.

      XVO

      May 28, 2014 at 10:52 AM

  6. The obvious question is why was this guy sharing his sexual history with everyone? You can’t be shamed for being a virgin if no one knows you are one.

    CamelCaseRob

    May 28, 2014 at 10:49 AM

  7. I don’t think “virginity shaming” is any more prevalent or vicious than “height shaming”, “fat shaming”, “goofy looking shaming”, “lanky shaming”, “slept with ugly girl shaming” or “stupid shaming.” I’m reminded of a South Park where a character is reminded that guys rip on each other all the time, it’s just the way they interact. It doesn’t mean they don’t like you or are trying to exclude you. If you’re with a large group of guys where everyone’s friendly chances are pretty close to 100% you’re going to get made fun of in some way.

    This sounds harsh: but just man up and try not to get so butthurt about it. At least that’s advice that’s more likely to make a difference than trying to convert all of adolescent male culture into no longer holding sexual experience in esteem.

    Doug

    May 28, 2014 at 11:05 AM

    • Some of those other types of shaming that you mention are politically incorrect, while there seems to be zero political incorrectness associated with virginity shaming.

  8. As others have stated, “virginity shaming” is not as common at Ivies. Most Harvard entering students are virgins. Id say about half of Cornell freshmen when i went were virgins. but it was definitely expected you would lose your virginity by end of sophomore year. A senior virgin would have been looked at as odd.

    Your kid doesnt have to have sex in high school but what he MUST do is begin to develop social skills and social confidence.

    jack

    May 28, 2014 at 12:14 PM

  9. A related issue: the feminists are now saying that men don’t have a *right* to sex, that it’s terrible that men feel entitled to sex, etc., etc.

    Didn’t that idea come into the culture via feminism? Promoting divorce so women and men could find sexual fulfillment, promoting pre-marital sex so that people could be sure their spouse was sexually compatible, supporting therapists and self-help books on how to get the best sex, etc., etc.

    When I google “everyone deserves good sex”, the stuff I get is not PUA stuff, or “bro” stuff. It’s feminists, it’s therapists, it’s nice, well-meaning people replying on boards. It’s a part of the culture, and it didn’t come from a conservative or misogynist direction.

    Anthony

    May 28, 2014 at 12:42 PM

    • That’s right, under other circumstances if a man said “I don’t deserve to have sex” or “I’m not worthy of having sex,” they would see he’s depressed or has other problems and should see a therapist.

    • Imagine a scenario where betas like Rodger were getting laid regularly while typical white fratboy alpha types weren’t. Which type of men has a greater natural inclination to think they have a right to sex? Those larger, more aggressive alphas would be screaming about it constantly, and their aggression toward everyone would be through the roof. We’d have a serious national crisis. America is lucky that it’s the more docile betas who tend not to get laid, yet feminists kick them for thinking they should have a piece of the action too.

      anon

      May 28, 2014 at 1:21 PM

      • Clearly, in the end, Rodger was not so docile either, was he?

        Saskatoon Sammy

        May 28, 2014 at 3:10 PM

      • That’s exactly the scenario I saw in college as a “fratboy” in a nerdy STEM major. It looked a little drier for the nerds at first, certainly by mid-sophomore year, a lot of nerdy betas got laid more, or at least not any less than my frat bros did, because they were hitting it a couple times a week with their 6 girlfriend/FWB – but that was probably the only woman they slept with in four years of college. By contrast, my roommate when I lived in-house tended to do the three date thing, and went through five or six 8s in a year, but didn’t get laid anywhere near as frequently. Alphas favor variety and appearance; betas favor frequency.

        The perception that nerdy betas get laid less than alpha frat boys isn’t as accurate as you think. As Lion notes, Rodger had a lot of mental problems, but if he’d focused less on getting 10s and more on getting laid, his life would have been a lot happier.

        As a more general response to other posts, virginity in college is a lot more common than some people here seem to think, and I doubt it’s any more common at Harvard than it is at some huge state school. It’s safe to say a lot of the people doing the “virgin shaming” are virgins themselves.

        J1

        May 28, 2014 at 4:24 PM

      • Interesting point!

        We’d have a serious national crisis.

        We might, if more White women pairing with minority men becomes the new norm, which seems to be one of his grievances in his manifesto – seeing unattractive brown men with pretty blondes or low status blacks with White women.

        Obviously, this issue is not being brought up at the moment, which can spark as much politically incorrectness as virgin shaming.

        Many guys seem to underestimate Tyrone and his association with White women!

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 5:24 PM

      • Which type of men has a greater natural inclination to think they have a right to sex? Those larger, more aggressive alphas would be screaming about it constantly, and their aggression toward everyone would be through the roof.

        I remember lining up at one of the cafes in NYC – Midtown, 5th Ave last year when 2 White men in suits in front me were turning their heads constantly looking at this black guy who was with 2 White females at one of the back tables. They were not exceptionally stunning, but quite attractive enough to be noticed, as these 2 guys felt it was an issue that they should take up, where they were constantly staring at them, interrupting themselves as they were discussing things about work. Now these 2 guys seemed pretty alpha to me, and were white collar workers as they were wearing suits.

        Reacting to interracial couples has more implications than incelness for men who aren’t getting any, now that America has become a fragmented tribal nation disguised as an integrated society. Elliot Rodger’s manifesto addressed some of his grievance on this matter.

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 9:22 PM

  10. Virginity shaming seems like a terrible idea for anyone, male or female. What the hell is wrong with people? I don’t remember anything like this. But I’m old. And female.

    Rosenmops

    May 28, 2014 at 12:57 PM

    • Are you that old not to be part of the sexual revolution generation (aka Baby Boomers) who still think they are teenagers with uninhibited libido during the 60s, either as a teenager or old age?

      The problem with America is that we are still stuck with the boomers and all the destructive forces that they have wrought upon us.

      JS

      May 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM

      • Wait, you’re from Canada! That’s why?

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 1:46 PM

      • Actually, JS, the sexual revolution could not possibly have been the work of the baby-boom gen due to when it occurred. The oldest boomers were mere teenagers and the youngest (like myself, born in 1961) were small children when these changed occurred. The primary agents of the sexual revolution were born before the year 1930, and many before 1920. If generational studies were a true field it would have a name for this phenomemon of people blaming a generation for the changes brought about my their parents and grandparents generation simply because (as could have been predicted) the changes were bound to effect young people growing up more than adults. I like to call his “the chronological sleight of hand.” It’s like if you walked on the beach and suddenly saw that your foot was bleeding because you stepped on a piece of broken glass that someone had left there. Then a cop arrests you for polluting the beach because your blood dripped on the sand.

        MaryK

        May 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM

      • MaryK – The sexual revolution that took place in the late 60s and lasted into the mid 70s was really the era that defined casual sex pervasive in modern day America. You’re at the tail end of the Baby Boomer generation, one of those individuals born between the “real” Boomers and Gen X known as Generation Jones. Boomers were born between the mid 40s to the early 60s, with most of them born in the 50s, which means they were in their early adulthood during the late 60s to mid 70s in a period of social change where cheap and also promiscuous sex were readily available.

        My parents are aging boomers, into their 60s now, and my dad still thinks he’s in high school when it comes to women, not atypical of boomer guys who can’t seem to grow up.

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 7:39 PM

      • There’s a book out there (don’t recall the name) that argues that the 70s and 80s were the real change years for the sexual revolution, not the sixties. That the sixties were known for some high profile counter culture events, Woodstock, etc., but that in terms of sheer numbers it was the teens and young adults of the 70s and 80s who really moved the needle. IIRC 1979 was for many years cited as the peak year for HS drug use, much higher than any year in the 60s.

        The problem with the 60s is that both conservatives and liberals had reasons to mythologize the decade and they didn’t let the opportunity go to waste. I got into it with one dumb ass once who imagined that ‘most’ college aged kids of the 60s, students or otherwise, had actively engaged in the anti-war movement. This is complete nonsense. There were anti-war protests in certain limited major cities and college campuses but aside from that nothing. It has been hyped and hyped and hyped so much that many people have manufactured impressions of that era that bear no resemblance to reality.

        Many young people of the 60s were just like Karl Rove; conservative. In fact Nixon had a very active and successful voter engagement drive on college campuses in ’68.

        Curle

        May 28, 2014 at 8:16 PM

    • MaryK is right, the real sexual revolution was in the Twenties. It got somewhat tamped down during the depression..but when all those horny vets came out of WWII, things were bound to change. A lot of marriages broke up and people became more demanding and uncompromising. It was falling apart all through the 50s, which were kind of a modern mini Victorian era, fruitful but rife with duplicity.

      caroljm36

      May 28, 2014 at 9:03 PM

      • The late 60s sex revolution was more significant because it became mainstream to have premarital sex, promiscuous sex, and contraceptives were readily available to the public such that women would engage in intercourse without hesitation. It was also a period where free sex would be part of the discourse together with the rise of gender and tribal divides, and the different social movements which are the cause of our modern day dysfunction. The Baby Boomers inherited these elements and formed a degenerate tradition around them that are so characteristic of the things that we are talking about on this blog.

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 11:07 PM

  11. I went to one of the academies, and it wouldn’t surprise me if 30-40% of the guys in my class graduated as virgins.

    AnonGuy

    May 28, 2014 at 1:03 PM

  12. People can be a confident virgin on purpose (i.e. Tim Tebow) but you have to have a solid sense of self and a religious upbringing to pull this off.

    If this kid had a religious community, none of this would have happened:

    (1) He would have had a place safe from virgin shaming
    (2) He would have had social contact with lots of people other than his dad’s promiscuious social circle. He would have learned (a) that virginity is not uncommon, (b) it takes time and things will be different when he is 25 or 30, and (c) you came be happy without being with a blonde ’10’ and those most guys are not with a blonde ’10.’

    I do think the game blogs are partly to blame for distorting the viewpoint. If my learning came from game blogs and I was a virgin, I would feel like the lowest of the low.

    Dan

    May 28, 2014 at 1:12 PM

    • People don’t “virgin shame”. They “incel shame”. It’s obvious that Tebow could bang whoever he wanted to. It’s only shameful to be a virgin if its not by choice.

      asdf

      May 28, 2014 at 10:20 PM

      • I like the Tim Tebow reference; the first time a went to a Catholic Mass in years (December 18, 2011), a Norbertine Priest gave a homily about it and praised him for his chastity and living his life for Christ.

        Latias

        May 28, 2014 at 11:14 PM

  13. Virginity-shaming is just a small subset of the much broader phenomenon of beta-shaming. The combination of neuroticism and small size results in beta status in most of the US, and many men are going to make sure you know it. Rodger’s virginity isn’t quite as important as the way so many people reinforced his beta status. The first step to fixing Rodger would have been to get him far away from the kinds of men most into beta-shaming and get him around other people like himself. Unfortunately Rodger’s family and environment constantly reminded him of the importance of being a large alpha and how he wasn’t one.

    Rodger is a great example of what happens to many people who suffer from a mismatch between their traits and the traits common/valued in society. The best thing a person who doesn’t fit in can do is to find subcultures/societies in which that person’s traits are more common. Despite what liberals say about diversity, people like being around people like themselves and often suffer when they don’t fit in. Unfortunately for Rodger, there are not that many people around who share enough of his mixed Asian/white traits.

    anon

    May 28, 2014 at 1:14 PM

  14. I’m sure you could find at least one feminist who would claim that male virginity shaming is part of the “patriarchy” and a symptom of “rape culture,” and the fact that it isn’t politically incorrect an indication that the patriarchy and rape culture are alive and well.

    SebZear

    May 28, 2014 at 1:30 PM

    • So I get lots (and lots) of “rape culture” crap on my facebook feed, and I have to wonder:

      Wouldn’t it have been better if Rodger just raped some girls? He’d have gotten laid, and, according to the feminists, nothing bad would have happened to him. He’d get a huge status boost (according to the feminists), which probably would have gotten other girls to submit to him willingly. And most importantly, he wouldn’t have killed anyone.

      Anthony

      May 28, 2014 at 2:15 PM

    • At least a couple feminist commenters at Ordinary Times have made statements along these lines. One linking it directly to rape culture, the other stating that male virgin-shaming is something feminism should combat.

      trumwill

      May 28, 2014 at 5:02 PM

  15. I’m 38 and I don’t think things would have been different when I was his age. I think kids are having less sex now, probably because of dropping testosterone levels plus the internet as a substitute for a real social life. Plummeting teen pregnancy rates corroborate this.

    aisaac

    May 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

  16. //6) Groups of Women, who learned from men that I was a virgin, would talk about how undesirable I am because of my virginity.//

    While I don’t doubt that this happened, there is an element of “different strokes for different folks.” I knew at least a few girls who wanted to bed a virgin and/or considered that ideal. This was a while back, when I and they were college aged. Neither of the two that most prominently come to mind were particularly religious. In another case, a girl that I was loosely seeing was pretty disappointed that I’d had a whopping three partners by the time I met her (I got the sense she was willing to spot me one because I dated a girl for over four years). Again, not religious.

    trumwill

    May 28, 2014 at 5:07 PM

    • Actually, I think she’d had two. So she may have spotted me two. I think the fact that I had more than she did bothered her, despite the fact that I was a couple years older.

      trumwill

      May 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM

  17. When I graduated high school in ’97, I’d guess that about 60 – 70% of my class had lost their virginity, and most of them lost it junior or senior year. I went to high school in a town that was a mix of middle and upper middle class people. Almost everyone went to college and more than a handful of people got into an Ivy.

    Losing your virginity during your junior or senior year of high school seems normal and healthy to me, but I’m a bit disturbed by how common it is for younger kids to have sex today. I lost my virginity when I was 15, and the idea of my kid having sex at the same age scares me.

    Ideally, I’d like to see sex among young people be something that’s accepted but not flaunted. Doing what you want sexually while being safe and discreet about it sounds pretty good to me.

    Robert

    May 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

  18. Why not just lie about it? Nobody is around you 24 hrs a day. Not lying shows a level of social retardation.

    Hepp

    May 28, 2014 at 5:23 PM

    • maybe he was bad at lying.

      jorge videla

      May 28, 2014 at 7:32 PM

    • Believe it or not, some young people are excessively idealistic in some ways and haven’t yet realized that it’s perfectly acceptable to brazenly lie to people they know about things like virginity. Guys who haven’t had sex by the time they’re in college SHOULD lie about it, not because it’s actually something to be ashamed of, but because they’ll have to take too much crap if they don’t. The majority of people aren’t worth knowing or even talking to, so telling them lies about your personal life isn’t so terrible a sin. It’s none of their business, anyway.

      Stealth

      May 28, 2014 at 8:33 PM

  19. You ever consider the possibility that they kept harping on his virginity because it was obvious that it was bothering him and he was socially inept? Imagine he lied and said he was a virgin. The guy would’ve just ended up being bothered about people making fun of his mother’s accent, and people would’ve harped on that. After college, he would’ve started a Reedit threat where he complained about “white privilege” and all he suffered as a minority.

    Hepp

    May 28, 2014 at 5:30 PM

  20. just spread the rumor that you’re related to john holmes.

    jorge videla

    May 28, 2014 at 7:28 PM

  21. if the % of self-reported male virgins is compared to the same for women what you find is someone is lying or there are some girls doing overtime.

    jorge videla

    May 28, 2014 at 7:33 PM

    • The average woman has more opportunities for one-night-stands than the average man, and they don’t have to lower their standards as much, either. Because “alpha” (in the sense of attractiveness to women and not necessarily fighting ability) males are usually willing to scrape the bottom of the barrel for sex in a pinch, most girls don’t have to. The majority of girls who are at all interested in going out have slept with one or more guys who are way above her league. Not knowing that these young men were simply making the best of a bad situation, the girls now believe that they’re qualified for a fantasy life with Prince Charming, a dude whose sole qualification for being considered sexual royalty is the fact that he looks good.

      I’ve known plenty of “big boned” girls and “harsh daylight” chicks who held out until their thirties for someone good enough to marry, never realizing that they were the ones who weren’t good enough. A little while after her prime reproductive years, a plain looking young woman like this will settle for someone she probably thinks is beneath her.

      Stealth

      May 28, 2014 at 8:23 PM

  22. If I may put it bluntly, the right titty bar can be a Godsend. Contrary to what most folks think, the majority of them are NOT whorehouses, and it’s a great place to learn that talking to women isn’t the end of the world. Maybe Elliot Rodger didn’t have the money to go to one, but it doesn’t take much.

    Stealth

    May 28, 2014 at 8:03 PM

    • There isn’t a city in America that doesn’t have a bar where the owner employs cute, female bartenders. You simply have to do a little searching. For a nice tip they will talk to you all night as long as you don’t act like you are trying to have a relationship. If the tips are nice enough they will act happy to see you when you return. And, you don’t have to pay for unwanted lap dances.

      Curle

      May 28, 2014 at 11:30 PM

      • Don’t they share tips?

      • Whether they share tips or not, it works for me.

        Curle

        May 29, 2014 at 1:51 AM

      • Unwanted?

        Stealth

        May 29, 2014 at 6:55 PM

      • That’s a little bit different. When I was a single man, I never flirted with waitresses at joints like Hooters. Unlike strippers, who know their job is to get naked and dance on top of men sitting in chairs, a waitress in her late teens/early twenties at a chain restaurant is just a server. I can only imagine how she must feel when some forty year old man who’s out with his buddies hits on her. They might be dressed in short skirts and skimpy tops, but I’d bet ninety five percent of them took the job because they really needed a job. Are some of them crummy people who deserve to be harassed? Beats me, but it’s kind of unsporting to hit on them when they’re vulnerable like that.

        Stealth

        May 29, 2014 at 7:19 PM

      • The places I’m thinking of are never chains or places like Hooters and the bartenders are typically mid-twenties. And, I never hit on them. I just go in for a brew and catch up with them. Talk about their day, etc. Girls like to talk about themselves and they are comfortable doing so as long as they don’t think you want something else. You have to regulate yourself so it is clear that you aren’t after anything else and it is a good time. If you are looking for a girlfriend, hit on the customers.

        It is also important t pick a place that isn’t overly busy. I tend to pick out of the way places or high end places that have bars that aren’t overly busy. Hotel bars are sometimes good locations.

        Curle

        May 30, 2014 at 12:41 AM

  23. I lived in a dorm for four years. Despite being tall, white, in shape, and not shy, I found it impossible to get laid with any girl who had a normal bmi. Started seeing hookers in my last year to stay sane. Most of my floormates were incel as well.

    Scott

    May 28, 2014 at 10:11 PM

    • Is the refusal to have sex with large women due to a fear they will want to be your girlfriend? They can do all the things the skinny one’s can. I would think resistance to a hooker would outrank resistance to a large girl.

      Curle

      May 28, 2014 at 11:27 PM

    • Known an Indian guy who told me he had problems associating with the women in his college co-ed dormitory. He blames it on for not being White. A few black guys in his school had white girlfriends.

      Liberalism hurts you in the sexual arena if you’re not Alpha and White, or a successful black poser.

      JS

      May 29, 2014 at 10:10 AM

  24. Renault, you sound like the kind of guy who had all sorts of social options available in college. Why do you wish you went for “very attractive nerds” instead of the more athletic/social girls? The kinds of girls you had access to are the kind i wanted in college.

    jack

    May 29, 2014 at 2:00 AM

    • Attractive women in America are usually not nerds. They are the most hypergamous and I would dare say the most “normal” women. Nerdy women tend to be less physically attractive. They might have a more pleasant personality, but are less desired by men in the sexual arena. Surivival of the sexiest as they say – The new motto for American sexuality and women worship.

      Not sure about the Ivies, and most girls at the Ivies are subpar in looks when compared to the non-Ivy girls.

      JS

      May 29, 2014 at 10:18 AM

      • Hanging around in Columbia, the women are clearly less attractive than let say those who attend a school such as the Parson’s School of Design in NYC.

        The most attractive women I’ve met in NYC, ironically are the prole types who attended bumblef*ck schools, majoring in subjects such as liberal arts and marketing. Some of these girls have high paying jobs soley because of their looks. It’s nice to be a pretty girl with shoddy credentials from a state school and now you’re an executive assistant pulling 80K/year.

        JS

        May 29, 2014 at 10:27 AM

    • Honestly?

      I guess it’s mainly because I’ve run into so many reasonably attractive girls over the past five-ten years that for whatever reason I didn’t know at all back during college. It’s like we wrote off the majority of girls at the school because they were “uncool” (not necessarily unattractive), then constantly complained about the shitty girl situation (granted, this situation does sort of exist at any elite school).

      Renault

      May 29, 2014 at 12:59 PM

      • Its hard to believe the girl.situation is really that bad when youre on a high status team and in a high status club. Maybe Harvard girls are insufferable, Cornell girls certainly could be. But it seems that once youre out of school for a while, those status distinctions mean less. I definitely envied the top frat guys at Cornell who were partying with the hotter sorority and athlete girls. Getting girls is all about location and status.

        jack

        May 29, 2014 at 8:45 PM


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