Lion of the Blogosphere

Exclusive Philip Bloeser interview with Daily Mail

The Daily Mail has an exclusive interview with Philip Bloeser, whom Elliot Rodger frequenly mentioned as one of his long-time friends in his autobiography.

‘Everyone is focusing on Elliot’s lack of success with women, but they need to appreciate he was unable to communicate with anyone. He was so shy and painfully awkward. He had a boring personality and he didn’t talk.

‘He would never dream of approaching a girl, he just expected them to come to him, which they didn’t. Even if any of them ever had, it wouldn’t have lasted long, because he wouldn’t chat to them.

‘I remember he once said to me: ‘I saw this really attractive girl today and she didn’t even come up to me, she ignored me’. I asked him if he tried talking to her and he said no.

‘I tried to offer him advice and encourage him to talk to girls, but he wouldn’t do it.’

Philip – who works in retail – met Rodger’s at Topanga Elementary School, when they were in the same class. They became friends, along with another boy called Addison Altendorf but Philip says he always found Elliot incredibly awkward and shy.

He said: ‘I always like to reach out to people and I am a friendly person, so despite the fact Elliot was difficult to talk to, I became friends with him.’

. . .

‘He was incredibly hard work to talk to and I would always make sure Addison was there when we met up. We really had nothing to talk about. He liked computer games and skateboarding when he was younger, but that was it.

‘I lost contact with him for about three years at one point in our childhood, but other than that we stayed in fairly regular touch.

‘Elliot would usually contact me on Facebook and we would see each other probably once or twice a year. I can honestly say this was the last thing I could ever imagine him doing. Yes, he was shy and yes he was awkward, but that was it.

‘The person described in that manifesto and the person on the YouTube recording is not the person I knew. In the video, he even sounds different, he puts on a different voice. It’s almost demonic.

‘And I was amazed to hear him talk so much and so articulately, usually all you would get were one word, monosyllabic answers from him.

‘I used to try to tell him he had the opportunity to be more outgoing and to enjoy life, but it seems he didn’t ever listen to me.’

. . .

‘There really weren’t any warning signs or red flags, I really want people to understand that. No one saw this coming.

Thus Philip Bloeser confirms EVERYTHING I have been saying about Elliot since I read his autobiography. That he was extremely shy and afraid to talk to girls. His extreme shyness was triggered by his extreme high-Neuroticism personality. So many people just don’t seem to get that at all. They think that if he didn’t talk to girls, it must be because he was gay, or some other wrong explanation.

Bloeser also confirms what I keep saying about Elliot’s videos, that he’s acting in those videos, pretending to be someone else, like an arch-villian from a comic book. It’s interesting how Elliot is able to be talk to the camera, but was never able to say that much even to Philip who was one of Elliot’s best friends (from Elliot’s perspective anyway).

If anything, I think I have UNDERESTIMATED the extent of Elliot’s extreme shyness. Even around one of his best friends he could not open up and be talkative. Perhaps his mother is the only person Elliot ever felt comfortable talking to? It should be no mystery why Elliot couldn’t obtain a girlfriend.

Another important point is that Philip says that Elliot was a boring person with no interests. This is evidence that Elliot did NOT have Asperger’s Syndrome, because people with Asperger’s Syndrome usually “have obsessions and interests that they talk about incessantly,” and that is not the case with Elliot. It is actually quite unfortunate that he didn’t have Aspie interests, because they would have occupied his time and kept him happy, and he wouldn’t have stewed about his low social status until it drove him into a murderous beta-male rage. It seems like his personality got worse after he stopped playing World of Warcraft. (Was World of Warcraft an obessive aspie interest? I think the answer is no, he just played it for the normal nerd reasons that it was fun and it gave him a surrogate social life that he couldn’t have in the real world, but he felt guilty and unfulfilled playing it.)

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

Posted in Psychology

99 Responses

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  1. Good work on this story, Lion. As someone with an above-average degree of neuroticism who has always struggled with social anxiety (though I have managed to get with girls now and then,) I could identify with a lot of what Rodger wrote in his autobiography (homicidal thoughts being one exception.) It’s pretty frustrating to read all these commenters offering bogus explanations like presumed homosexuality, because I partially know what it’s like to feel like him, and yeah, it’s simply an irrational fear of talking to people, of what others will think of you. As you said earlier, these people simply lack the ability to get inside the mind of someone with social anxiety.

    Hermes

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • I agree that the Lion has done an excellent job covering this story and deserves some kind of blogger award. And I’m not sucking up. On the contrary, I disagree with the Lion constantly on my blog, but I find his analysis of murderers to be fascinating, perspicacious and educational.

      Lion needs to analyze a FICTIONAL killer. I would LOVE for the Lion to rent Rob Zombie’s graphic 2007 remake of Halloween and analyze that movie. The fans of the original 1978 Halloween film hated Rob Zombie’s remake because in the original film, the killer was middle class evil incarnate while in the remake, the killer was a hardcore prole.

      pumpkinperson

      May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • The only reason you believe homo-sexuality to be a bogus explanation is because you don’t sense that a decade’s worth of jerking-off coupled with Elliot’s recognition that such personal sexual deviancy was his destined lot in life could lead to sheer homicidal madness.

      One can accept everything Lion has said about Elliot’s disposition and yet it still doesn’t explain that leap towards utterly murderous madness.

      thordaddy

      May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

      • I think the Lion’s high neuroticism theory might explain his leap to mass murder because neurotics suffer from anger, moodiness, envy and depression. Take those emotions to an extreme and you have a pretty dangerous combination.

        Of course it’s still possible he was secretly gay, but when there’s no strong evidence either way, I guess straight should be the default assumption.

        pumpkinperson

        May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Yes, “regular” emotions like anger and envy and jealous rage are enough to explain murder.

        I knew a pyschopathic murderer once, he was the total opposite of Elliot, very social and smooth-talking, yet seemed like a really nice guy.

      • Neither does homosexuality. Plenty of homosexuals have lived and died without becoming mass murderers.

        Hermes

        May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

      • HS has done a great job on this story. Restored my faith in him after the Palin years.

        re homosexuality- what exactly was going on with Soumaya’s father’s showing him a european porn video in the middle of the night at his house in Tangier (p.44)? Is that normal for a 60+ man to be doing with a 13 year old? Elliot doesnt dwell on it, but it did remind me of the discussion on Morocco that came up on Sailer’s blog.

        Word count:
        envy: 26 occurrences
        rage: 67 occurrences
        jealous/jealousy: 38

        upscale: 5
        popular: 79

        father: 384
        “my father”: 133
        dad: 0

        mother: 409
        mom: 1 (referencing a family friend)

        Lion of the Turambar

        May 30, 2014 at EDT am

      • Lion of Turambar,
        I don’t think it was Soumaya’s father who showed Elliot porn in Morocco. It was one of his adopted “boys”. When Elliot first went to Morocco he was only 7 or 8, I believe. He used to play with three boys about the same age who had been adopted by Soumaya’s father. Her father lived in a large castle-like home that had once been used to film a James Bond film. It was during a later visit, when Elliot and the boys were teens, that one of them showed him some porn.

        Rosenmops

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  2. I haven’t noticed many commentators here suggesting he didn’t have extreme social anxiety. Anyone who read his autobiography knew that. I don’t see why you think he couldn’t have social anxiety and narcissism at the same time. For that matter he could have extreme social anxiety and be gay (but I don’t think he was gay).

    Rosenmops

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

  3. I wonder if his friend James Ellis will come forward. I would say, judging from what Elliot wrote, that James Ellis was his best friend. Elliot claimed that James cut off contact with him after he told James some of his thoughts about torture and murder.

    Rosenmops

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Either that, or he didn’t want to deal with Elliot throwing drinks at people. It’s clear that James found Elliot too weird or difficult to deal with at the end.

    • The Lion has done a good job debunking the claim that he had aspergers, however the fact that he was socially obtuse enough to confide to his friend about his torture murder fantasies suggests he may have had aspergers after all.

      pumpkinperson

      May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

      • In the last few years, Elliot became weirder, but that doesn’t mean he had Asperger’s. He developed weird ideas because of his social isolation and his bitter rage and jealousy.

      • there is no after all with regard to any “mental illness”.

        there is no blood test or biopsy or post mortem for any of them.

        baaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

        jorge videla

        May 30, 2014 at EDT am

  4. I wonder if an act of kindness from a girl in middle school, or some boy or teacher in Crespi (to protect him from bullying) could have averted this. I ask this in the sense that avoiding an apparently small emotional perturbation (such as killing the butterfly before it can flap its wings) would have affected him. This is similar to chaos theory.

    Latias

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • With all these Elliot Rodger stories, Latias is going to explode in a fireball of sexual energy.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

      • I guess Elliot Rodger is Latios.

        Latias

        May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Right…A lot of the “bullying” that occurred was very modest.

      But from the blurbs of Rodger’s bio I’ve read on Lion’s blog and elsewhere, it appears that even acts of outright kindness were reciprocated with anger.

      Ava Lon

      May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • He needed a pet where he alone was responsible for its well being. He needed responsibility. He needed a reason to think of something other than himself.

      Curle

      May 30, 2014 at EDT am

  5. At the end of the day, Elliot hated female sexuality…

    If that isn’t evidence of homo-sexuality, what is it evidence of?

    thordaddy

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • A guy with extreme social anxiety who’s attracted to women but for whom their sexuality is an impenetrable black box.

      Hermes

      May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

      • >impenetrable black box

        I see what you did there.

        Newdist

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • “exactly”

      it’s “obvious” he was a homosexual aspie narcissist sociopath …

      or rather, his killing spree seems no more malevolent than a sheep sheering.

      there are human beings and there are sheeple.

      jorge videla

      May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • Tangier used to be a prime destination for homos seeking boys…just saying. Did the Islamists clean it up?

      caroljm36

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  6. ted k was described by one of his fellow professors at ucb as “pathologically shy”.

    but i can imagine a misanthrope like ted k would be seen as such by those without his worldview.

    perhaps unfortunately the only thing the dsm has for “pathologically shy” is “social anxiety disorder”.

    it’s unfortunate because it’s quite clear from the history that the disorder was introduced to the dsm for the purpose of promoting paxil.

    jorge videla

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

  7. i remember toby young was asked what cosmetic surgery he’d have at a manhattan art show. he said, “that’s easy. i’d have penis reduction surgery.” to which those around him responded, “do you really have a problem?”

    THIS MAKES IT CLEAR…

    social skills and social intelligence aren’t the same thing and may be completely unrelated.

    young said americans were unlike any other people he’d encountered as they had no sense of humor. he believed every last one of the people he worked with at vanity fair was taking prozac.

    jorge videla

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • it might even be said that in order to progress in a large organization actually requires a certain level of social stupidity.

      as young replied,

      “oh yeah baby. i’ve got a HUGE problem.”

      jorge videla

      May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

  8. … it must be because he was gay …

    So why when he was fantasizing about being world dictator did he imagine starving most of the women to death instead of setting up a harem for himself? Maybe not gay but really not normal sexually.

    James B. Shearer

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

  9. I read through the sister’s twitter account, and she seems really dumb. And like a complete 180 from Elliot. Two really weird kids from this mating. It’s easy to imagine her totally hating Elliot.

    Weirdness

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

  10. The pilot for a new series just aired called “Undateable”. When confident slacker Danny Burton takes Justin on as a roommate, Danny unwittingly inherits Justin’s group of romantically challenged friends. Seeing himself as the ultimate player, Danny decides to teach them everything he knows about “the game of love.”

    That’s a striking coincidence. Not because of the Elliot Rodger thing but because Ross is undateable, too. LOL

    destructure

    May 29, 2014 at EDT pm

    • i hope you’re not referring to that guy you think i am. and now you’re looking up info on that guy’s dad?

      creepy. very very creepy. and very aspergery and vulgar too.

      jorge videla

      May 31, 2014 at EDT pm

  11. Sigma, he did have obsession – with girls, so he could still be Asperger. He did go into psychosis before doing all this – including writing his manifesto and killing these people. What he is writing is not about his life before he went psychotic. It is about how he perceived his previous life while already being in the psychotic state. You need to spend more time around crazy people to understand their transformations. Try volunteering at mental hospital or something like that. It could be fun. You will understand better.

    MyTwoCents

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • There’s no evidence of loss of contact with reality, which is what a psychosis is. Just because he did a despicable deed doesn’t mean there was a loss of contact with reality.

      • I think the strongest evidence of psychosis is in the fact that his victims are random people, not all girls. Those that are girls, are average looking. Also, in the fact that people who knew him are all saying that he was not himself lately. Everything points to mania. His manifesto is very coherent, so it is not schizophrenic mania. Bipolar mania, most likely. If he took risperidone for a week and then reduced dosage slowly over 2-3 weeks, he would be fine, although recovery from it (risperidone) would take him some time – maybe several months. Having very smart parents would be helpful too.

        MyTwoCents

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance and ideology at work that people feel they MUST “explain” people doing crazy things as resulting from those people being crazy.

        what ever happened to the old fashion explanations of morality?

        the insanity defense almost always fails.

        jorge videla

        May 31, 2014 at EDT pm

  12. … until it drove him into a murderous beta-male rage.

    Jesus Christ, are you going to neurotically cling to this OCD-like obsession with “beta male rage” forever???

    The guy was a sub omega freak. Normal losers are omegas, average guys are betas.

    If this sub omega freak is a beta male then EVERY other guy out there is an alpha.

    Now does that make any sense?

    I think you relate to this guy and that’s why you understand him.

    That said, I think your analysis of him is better then most of the other ones circulating out there.

    Minus the “beta male rage” nonsense.

    Rifleman

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

  13. Some of the most prolific mass murderers, serial killers and even one-time murderers were/are absolute sexual deviants, from Bundy, Gacy and Dahmer to the savage teenage nigel who rapes and murders a 120 year white great grandmother, all the way to the self-annihilating mass murderering jihadist envisioning 72 virgins for eternal abuse. Of course, in this day and age, “we” have defined sexual deviance down to almost nonexistence and these last three cases of mass murder ALMOST CERTAINLY involved a young male that has spent a considerable amount of time jerking off to porn. But because this has become so normalized — this truly homo-sexual state of existence — it is now not even considered when history is absolutely replete with sexually deviant killers.

    Again, if hating female sexuality to the point of desire total annihilation of the female isn’t evidence of homo-sexuality, what is it evidence of?

    thordaddy

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • Rage, envy and jealousy about the fact that he can’t have beautiful women. (Or any women at all, really.)

      • That wasn’t a fact though. He could have plenty of women if he stayed alive. He would have to go on an online dating site and explain that he has some mental problems and might be very awkward. Drive his BMW to the date. Actually try to meet the girl again and again and take her out on several dates. And then if that fails, try again. Eventually he’d have a girl.

        If he really actually tried, he would have found a girl eventually.

        jordan

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Though in fairness to jerking off, porn and video games. Some say rape, assault and other crimes are going down because of them.

      Curle

      May 30, 2014 at EDT am

      • “Though in fairness to jerking off, porn and video games. Some say rape, assault and other crimes are going down because of them.”

        I’m in the camp that agrees with that. And in fact, it seems that Elliot got worse after he quit World of Warcraft.

    • right. let’s get it over with:

      rodger was gay, an spie, a sociopath, a schizophrenic, a narcissist, and he also “had” many other personality disorders.

      jorge videla

      May 31, 2014 at EDT pm

  14. Actually, it sounds like Elliot had two obsessive interests: Status, and Getting Revenge. Shyness may have prevented him from talking about these too much with others, but it seems he wrote rather a lot about them for others to read. Lots of Aspie kids seem to express themselves better in writing than by speaking.

    Dippity Do

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • Yes, but those aren’t Aspie interests that involve orderly things like train schedules or baseball statistics.

      And being interested in social status is evidence of NOT having Asperger’s.

    • Status was in terms of physique. He was complaining about that low status black men could get white girlfriends and unattractive brown men had pretty blondes.

      He was really upset that other guys were in relationships and he was not. His reason could go either away, being an Eurasian mix. 1) A White guy feeling that his privilege is being taken away from minority men or 2) he was perceived as an Asian guy with a stereotypical loserdom status.

      JS

      May 30, 2014 at EDT am

      • He also complained about Asian guys and chubby guys three inches shorter than him could get girls. He also complained how guys with worse cars than his had girlfriends.

        The status was about money and where he lived also. He said he was embarrassed to live in an apartment in a specific city.

        The status was also about name brand clothes, showing up to exclusive events, and even jewelry.

        jordan

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • And you initially disagreed with me about the status thing!

        JS

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  15. Lion, just consult on liscenced psychiatrists (MD, not PhD of psychology) on this Elliot. See what they will tell you.

    He is schizophrenic patient. When some one produces hostile feeling to strange couples kissing, that is persecutory delusion. When some thinks himself so superior, so great, that is grandiose delusions. Diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia are pretty straight forward.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis_of_schizophrenia

    IC

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • “A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.”

      Elliot didn’t have a delusion. Feeling extremely jealous and angry are emotions and not delusions.

      • I personally diagnosed quite a few patients in my practice and refered them to psychiatry specialists. So far I have never been wrong.

        IC

        May 30, 2014 at EDT am

      • However this quote from him sounds delusional:

        I am not part of the human race. Humanity has rejected me. The females of the human species have never wanted to mate with me, so how could I possibly consider myself part of humanity? Humanity has never accepted me among them, and now I know why. I am more than human. I am superior to them all. I am Elliot Rodger… Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent… Divine. I am the closest thing there is to a living God. Humanity is a disgusting, depraved, evil species. It is my purpose to punish them all. I will purify the world of everything that is wrong with it. On the Day of Retribution, I will truly be a powerful God, punishing everyone I deem to be impure and depraved. 

        Did he really believe he was the closest thing to a living God, or was he just exaggerating for dramatic or comic book effect… just a playful facetious fantasy indulging writing style or incipient psychosis? The Lion has mentioned that he became especially weird only in recent years. Young adulthood is typically when schizophrenia strikes.

        pumpkinperson

        May 31, 2014 at EDT pm

      • He was probably just exaggerating for dramatic or comic book effect. He was a comic book fan, you know.

    • I’m a psychiatrist (MD.) I read parts of Elliot’s autobiography. He wasn’t psychotic, for reasons Lion has already outlined. No psychotic person could write such a coherent 140-page document. He didn’t have delusions (i.e., fixed, false beliefs that cannot be changed by any contradictory evidence and which are not consistent with the person’s cultural background.)

      Hermes

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • In my graduate school, I even have a PhD (post-doctoral fellow) with clinical diagnosed schizophrenia. Psychotic patients still can have normal or even above normal IQs.

        IC

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • When the schizophrenia is in remission, yes. Not while actively psychotic. There’s no evidence in Elliot’s history that he had schizophrenia. If we’re seeking a DSM diagnosis for him, the closest we can probably get is avoidant personality disorder.

        Hermes

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Exactly. And “avoidant personality disorder” is just another term for severe social anxiety.

  16. Why did Elliot never try online dating?

    Mike Smith

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • We don’t know that he didn’t, but he would have been too afraid to call a girl who gave him her phone number online.

    • I think that’s a great question. Judging by Elliot’s antics on the “misc” forum, he took on a whole new persona online.

      Josh

      May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • It’s not like he would have had success there. Online dating works the same way as real life dating: the top tier of guys scoop up the majority of women.

      Renault

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Online dating is ruthless and it would have been ineffective for him because of his racial component and looks.

      He would have scanned through many online profiles of highly attractive blonde women, and it would have be of no avail, given the disparity of responses between pretty women and handsome men. Attractive women receive significantly way more messages than good looking men, which overwhelm their inboxes, causing them to ignore most of them. Thus, women who are into online dating, engage in much of the “chasing”, unlike in real life where men are the initiators. They are actively looking for the best men in terms of looks and income, and race is an important factor where attractive White women (who are still perceived to be the most desirable by all men) will mostly reject black men, and nearly all of them will reject Asian men.

      Here’s an interesting study:

      http://jonmillward.com/blog/attraction-dating/cupid-on-trial-a-4-month-online-dating-experiment/

      Attractive women receive more than 20X the messages than attractive men. Now you can understand why online dating is cutthroat for men, if you want to date pretty women.

      JS

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  17. i think a lot of your readers dont understand that elliot was at the bottom of the social hierarchy. he had no friends or women in his life, and he didnt see a way out… he was too shy and neurotic, and built his view that the world was structurally biased against him (true or not). It makes perfect sense that he acted out violently …there is almost no alternative for a low status male, and it speaks to his heterosexuality. If he was a NAM he would have become a gangbanger.

    jjbees

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • ” It makes perfect sense that he acted out violently”

      Hunter gatherer societies, where as many as 38% of men cannot find mates because of polygyny, are marked by extreme violence. Nearly all of that violence is fueled by competition for women.

      I think that the West is currently going through a phase of de fact polygamy. But unlike hunter gatherer societies, men are not lashing out in violence for the most part. Instead, it appears to me, men are taking up another testosterone fueled activity: weightlifting.

      Hunter gatherers fight for women, but Westerners are lifting weights for women. The rise in weightlifting this century is largely a consequence of the de fact polygamy that the West now has.

      I lift at my college gym because it’s the only way I will ever lose my virginity in this highly competitive sexual market. Hunter gatherers fight over women, but we Westeners lift weight over women. I really hate doing it (i’d rather spend those 2hr gym sessions studying), but what choice do i have?

      Josh

      May 30, 2014 at EDT am

      • Don’t forget video games. Virtual combat against “monsters” in World of Warcraft is a more socially sanctioned way to have violent competition that doesn’t actually hurt anyone.

      • Hunter gatherer societies, where as many as 38% of men cannot find mates because of polygyny, are marked by extreme violence. Nearly all of that violence is fueled by competition for women.

        I’d like to the see the source. I do not doubt this though.

        Latias

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • If you lift weights and, as a consequence, are reasonably fit, there are women right now who’d love to get you between the sheets. You simply have to put yourself in situations where you will encounter them and then be attentive to the signals they are sending. Most guys complaining about women are clueless about the encouraging signals women send. And, they are hung up on scoring the greatest beauties. I sometimes wonder whether men have been turned this way by porno or media. Look at old photos from the past. Plenty of men in days not so long ago were more than happy with perfectly plain women.

        I will concede that perhaps there are sexual markets (Manhatten) where the basic rules don’t apply. If so, spend as much time as possible out of Manhatten.

        Curle

        June 1, 2014 at EDT am

    • I haven’t read his book, but from the excerpts I have read, it wasn’t so much his unpopularity (with women) that bothered him, but rather the fact that women rejected him in favor of men he regarded as inferior to himself (full-blood minorities, short men, ugly men, non-rich men, dumb brutish jocks). Nothing makes humans angrier than that which violates our expectations, so when you combine low social stutus with a huge sense of entitlement and an angry envy-prone personality (high neuroticism), in retrospect this seems predictable.

      Sometimes mixed race minorities grow up feeling special because they are half-white, and I’m sure his mother told him all the girls would swoon over his exotic Eurasian good looks and he was even given a BMW to further entice them. So when women not only didn’t swoon, but rejected him for mono-racial shorter Asians with crappy cars, it added insult to injury and he lashed out violently against his Asian roommates

      It reminds me a bit of Rae Dawn Chong who was a rising mixed race star in the 1980s. When she first met Oprah on the set of “The Color Purple” circa 1985, she assumed this unknown overweight full blood black woman was no competition for a thin, pretty mixed race light skinned star like herself. But when Oprah went on to become the richest and most influential African American of her generation and Rae Dawn turned into a complete hasbeen, she lashed out in a horrific racist tirade:

      http://planetoprah.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/rae-dawn-chongs-father-defends-daughter-but-implies-rae-is-bitter-that-oprah-became-the-big-star/

      pumpkinperson

      May 30, 2014 at EDT am

      • “I’m sure his mother told him all the girls would swoon over his exotic Eurasian good looks”

        Exactly! Any “entitlement” he felt came from his mother. (Ironically, minority female induced feelings of entitlement and not white male entitlement.)

        Maybe she thought she was helping his self-esteem.

        “The age of entitlement is, not coincidentally, the age of high self-esteem. Self-esteem is a function of how we feel about ourselves, based mostly on comparison to others. It often has a hierarchical bias – we’re better than some and, by implication, not as good as others. It has a dark side, as indicated by the research of Roy Baumeister and colleagues, summarized in the book, Evil: Inside Human Violence and Cruelty. High self-esteem tends to create a sense of entitlement. When the world does not meet their entitlement needs, many with high self-esteem feel wronged and retaliate with manipulation, abuse, or violence.”

      • Lion,

        ” High self-esteem tends to create a sense of entitlement. When the world does not meet their entitlement needs, many with high self-esteem feel wronged and retaliate with manipulation, abuse, or violence.”

        Well, when you think about it, that makes sense. High self-esteem cannot be maintained in a vacuum. How we feel about ourselves is largely a function of how others feel about us. High self-esteem without outside feedback is merely self-delusion. The more intelligent realize this and lash out.

        map

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  18. A. Corolla argues for a parent’s license. Always thought it was a silly toss off comment. Now I’m not so sure. Step one, disallow video games for introverted children. Step two, have a program in place ensuring your introverted kid gets physical activity around other children preferably some sport that requires group cooperation. Step three, require the child to be responsible for some living creature other than themselves.

    Even if he was a high neurotic I’m not sure the self-absorbtion and thus self-centeredness couldn’t have been regulated. I conclude the parents were lazy and negligent.

    Curle

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • Group activities specifically oriented for shy/introverted and unathletic chidren don’t really exist. But they SHOULD exist.

      The pet suggestion is interesting, I need to think about that and do some research.

      • How about youth symphony?

        nebbish

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Group activities won’t do anything. What parents need to do is benchmark their children with at least the average of the kids their children go to school with. That means the parents have to know something about what the other kids are like.

        Introverts hanging with other introverts is pointless. Worse, it reinforces their introversy. It’s like networking with unemployed people.

        map

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Nebbish,

        No youth symphonies. Kid should play the guitar.

        map

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Sounds like a typical liberal… please help us Daddy government! Only culture can help with this. Government could not accomplish anything meaningful in the sphere of family affairs. They only have power to disrupt, or waste money.

      shiva1008

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Do you really want some bureaucrat at the Department of Child Licensing to decide whether or not you can have a kid?

      I hope you never have an INTP or INTJ kid. Your parenting style would drive him insane.

      BehindTheLines

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  19. A very enlightening interview.

    I suspected that Lion was right about Elliot’s extreme shyness, but i was having a hard time squaring that with his “video” personality. But apparently even his best friend was shocked with Elliot’s performances on video.

    Another thing i don’t get is this: if he was so shy, why was so open to using his real identity on online forums?

    It seems to me that Elliot was extremely shy but at the same time felt no shame. That perhaps explains why he used his real identity online and talked so openly about sex with his parents.

    But then this raises the question of where his shyness came from. Most people are shy because they feel shame. Anyone know of what causes shyness other than shame?

    Josh

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • The most simple explanation is that writing on his computer when he was alone in his room didn’t kick in his social phobias the way that happened when another live human was physically present.

    • As someone who has always struggled with shyness and who can identify somewhat with Elliot, I believe I can answer this. The particular type of social anxiety or shyness that people like Elliot or I experience is fear of “the heat of the moment.” When you’re in a social situation, someone says something to you, and you have to make a response right then and there, you don’t know what to say. You basically have a chronic case of l’esprit de l’escalier. When you go home and shut the door on the outside world and get on your computer, you have no problem thinking of things to say, because your anxiety trigger isn’t there: other real, live, human beings standing there who you know will form an impression of you based not only on your words but also on your facial expressions, body language, and tone of voice.

      Hermes

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • That is my experience as well. My mind literally goes blank with fear when dealing with unfamiliar people, especially if it is a group of unfamiliar people. I hope social anxiety hasn’t crippled your life as much as it has mine. Has your training in psychiatry helped at all?

        nebbish

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • nebbish, it’s helped maybe a little bit. What has helped more is just getting out there, out of my comfort zone, and getting used to being around people. Also, it’s helped to have some DHVs like being a doctor and being able to play the piano.

        Also, in response to Josh’s question about what causes shyness, I wanted to say that while I’m sure some of it is innate, I also suspect there’s a “butterfly effect” stemming from a few early childhood experiences. I believe if just a few things had gone a bit differently when I was 5, 6, 7, and by sheer luck I’d managed to say/do the “right” thing instead of the “wrong,” I would have grown up much more comfortable socially. You see this in Elliot’s autobiography: he started out as a normal kid, but had a few bullying experiences in elementary school, didn’t know how to deal with them, and just shut down.

        Another important factor for Elliot, one which either Lion or a commenter has already mentioned in a previous thread, and which I personally experienced as well, is being raised in a social milieu where you’re surrounded by kids of a higher socioeconomic class than your own. We were WASPs and my father was a carpenter but chose to live in a township where all the smart, popular kids at school were the offspring of Jewish doctors, lawyers, accountants, business executives, etc. It skews your vision of reality for a long time, and probably contributes to shyness and shame. Elliott never broke out of that because he never escaped that social milieu where he didn’t fit in. This led to his obsessive belief that he could be happy ONLY with a typical tall, hot, Southern California blonde girl, one of his chief problems.

        Hermes

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • I don’t doubt what you say, but I’ve always had a set list of standby bullshit fallback lines to use in social situations. Sometimes I think of them in advance so I don’t end up in the situation you describe or I don’t end up having to make really lame conversation on the spot. I don’t consider social situations something where you have to have a correct answer to a question, your only real obligation is to avoid stepping in landmines (don’t bring up PC topics, generally) and to keep the conversation rolling even if your only recourse is to take something mentioned and move the conversation in a different direction. Don’t know sports and someone says something about the Detroit Lions, start talking about lions. Some people will think you are an ass, but those same people think 98% of humanity are asses so what does it matter? That or you can baffle them with bullshit.

        Curle

        June 1, 2014 at EDT am

    • Not shame, fear of inadequacy. Important difference.

      lemur

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • I dunno, nowadays being inadequate is the only thing people are ashamed of.

        caroljm36

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  20. Lion,

    Do you put any stock in conspiracy theories? I think it’s worth considering the following:

    The Hunger Games is about the ritualistic mass murder of children.

    Elliot Rodgers killed six people on and around the University of California.
    -His father was an assistant producer on The Hunger Games.
    -He spent his entire life in therapy (and had some weird ones it seems)
    -Parts of his manifesto seem cliché or fake (“I’m only attracted to white blondes,” etc.) and his actions don’t makes sense: Why didn’t he get a hooker? Why didn’t he try online dating? Why does he mention PUAHATE but never PUA?
    -From a childhood friend: “The person described in that manifesto and the person on the YouTube recording is not the person I knew. In the video, he even sounds different, he puts on a different voice. It’s almost demonic. And I was amazed to hear him talk so much and so articulately, usually all you would get were one word, monosyllabic answers from him.”

    Adam Lanza killed 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary.
    -Suzanne Collins, author of the Hunger Games, lives in Sandy Hook.
    -too many anomalies and unanswered questions to list here.

    James Holmes killed 12 people at the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises.
    -The movie contains a scene where Sandy Hook appears on a map.
    -Holmes was pursuing a doctorate in neuroscience and had a number of links to U.S. government-funded research centers, including the Defense Advance Research Projects Agency, or DARPA.
    -he allegedly claimed to the victim of mind control
    -the government has been pumping him full of drugs since his incarceration

    This country contains tens of millions of psychologically disturbed, sexually frustrated young men. It’s strange that three recent mass shootings have a Hollyweird/Hunger Games connection. All the shooters were well-to-do or came from from well-to-do families. I mostly dismissed mass shooter conspiracies until now. But like my grandpa use to say, “Fuck a chicken once, ok. Fuck a chicken twice, whatever. Fuck a chicken three times, and people will call you a chicken-fucker.”

    Mike Smith

    May 30, 2014 at EDT am

    • Martinez almost celebratory stance of peddling gun control in front a group of people and the media, immediately after his son’s death is eerily haunting, and makes you wonder if this shooting is for real. He’s more concerned with getting guns off the possession of ordinary citizens than the tragic death of his boy.

      JS

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Watch these videos and determine if Richard Martinez (the dad of Chris Martinez, one of the victims whom was killed by Elliot) is either a sociopath, who has no empathy as cries more about guns than his son’s death or it just over the top – shoddy acting on his part.

        JS

        May 31, 2014 at EDT pm

    • conspiracy theories are for people too dumb to understand that the way the world really works is more terrifying than any conspiracy they can imagine.

      jorge videla

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Where is that scene on in Batman?

      map

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  21. For anyone who really thinks this Eliot guy was attractive, just imagine if he was Michael J Fox with his Parkinson Disease. Mr. Fox has a small – short physique and suffers from jerky posturing due to his condition, and yet he is able to get an attractive woman to marry him, and would do pretty well with the ladies if he was single.

    JS

    May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  22. whether or not rodger was very smart i think lion should post on why steve jones’s observation is true, that people with very high iqs (especially women with high iqs) have so few children.

    forbes did a story about it a long time ago. women with iqs >= 130 had very few children compared to women in the middle. it’s true for men too, but not to the same extent.

    jorge videla

    May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • it seems to be that “sex” is just another modern day abstraction from concrete reality.

      that is, in the end few men and almost no women actually want sex per se. that is, the male porn actors job is NOT a dream job.

      “sex” is one facet of a concrete whole. it’s not a thing in itself.

      jorge videla

      May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Bobo culture believes that a self-actualizing career is the most important thing to have, and children come in second.

      Prole women, on the other hand, don’t have self-actualizing careers.

      • Many prole women who went to state or bumblef*ck schools go into marketing and advertising, usually working for these firms in a place such as NYC.

        Are you saying they don’t have self actualizing careers? They probably want to self actualize more than BIGLAWYER Jane, who graduated from a Ivy League Law school.

        JS

        May 30, 2014 at EDT pm

  23. “I’d like to the see the source. I do not doubt this though.”

    Nicholas Wade mentioned it in passing in “Before the Dawn.” He was talking about a hunter gatherer society in Papua new guinea, so i’m not sure how general it is.

    Josh

    May 31, 2014 at EDT am


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