Lion of the Blogosphere

Hispanics and blacks view computer careers most favorably

Steve Sailer shared a chart showing that Blacks and Hispanics are most likely to see a career in computers as a “good choice” for them, with whites being least likely.

My interpretation is that Blacks and Hispanics see computers as a practical way to make money, while whites see careers in computers as being boring and not self-actualizing.

Unlike whites, Blacks and Hispanics think that the primary purpose of work is to get paid.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

Posted in Labor Markets

77 Responses

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  1. I think part of the reason for this is that those black and Hispanic kids really haven’t the slightest idea what it means to be a computer programmer. They probably think it means you sit around and play video games or somehow create video games through magical secret fun stuff that white people keep hidden, rather than tons of hard work, logical sequencing and math.

    peterike

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • I think it was by process of elimination. It was the first thing they could think of that didn’t sound lame. Just as young white women of the past used to always answer that question ‘veterinarian’ yet almost none actually became veterinarians. They were thinking about clothes, the mall, boys, etc. and someone asked them a question so they answered the first thing that would make the interrogator go away. Same for the black kids. Answer ‘computers’ and you won’t be asked any more questions.

      Curle

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  2. If only they had the brainpower.

    And the discipline.

    Nice idea, though.

    rivsdiary

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  3. What is the purpose of a job if not to get paid. IT jobs might not be the most lucrative out there but they are the easiest one to get that pay 80k-160k with least bit of work/luck/connections involved.

    wt

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  4. It seems minorities love technology whereas some whites think that they are making a statement by eschewing it

    grey enlightenment

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  5. They also make shoddy technicians. Don’t kid yourself that NAMs are capable in IT!

    JS

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Further, America is technologically behind on the consumer level, and perhaps on the infrastructure level when comparing to other 1st world nations.

      Again, America is likened to a disenfranchised public school; the liberals got what they wanted, because liberals don’t believe in excellence. They love underachievement and this is what America has become.

      JS

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • that’s right.

        american conservatives have yet to make the second step from “i’m better than you. sucks to be you, loser.” to “but that doesn’t mean you should live by sorting garbage.”

        jorge videla

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • George – American elites are pushy, condescending and overly striving, and most important, tactless.

        And why does anyone here want to be part of this lumprenprole – high culture is beyond any human reasoning!

        JS

        June 21, 2014 at EDT am

      • i didn’t choose “jorge” , because my real name is george.

        and in russian there’s igor and georgie. what’s the difference?

        jorge videla

        June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

      • but you are correct.

        americans are pushy strivers. and more, they’re unreflective and obedient.

        the us is the worst thing to ever happen to the world.

        jorge videla

        June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

      • the us is the worst thing to ever happen to the world.

        Americans love extremes.

        1) The most proletariat of all the industrialized nations

        2) The most overweight population of all the industrialized nations

        3) The most racist of all the industrialized nations

        4) The least integrated of all the industrialized nations

        5) The least upward mobile of all the industrialized nations

        6) The least intelligent population of all the industrialized nations

        JS

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • And the most religious industrialized nation.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Ironically, America has one of the best STEM curriculum in the world, and yet most of them have no respect for it.

        JS

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

    • There are plenty of blacks and Hispanics working in IT. Help-desk types of positions are prole and don’t even require 4-year college degrees.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • What are NAMs capable of besides Help-Desk operations? Besides, programming, find me a few NAMs who are Network Engineers or Cisco Administrators.

        There are also a few women in Help-Desk, which doesn’t require much education or higher IQ.

        JS

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • I worked with one black programmer (immigrant from Central America who spoke unaccented white English and voted Republican, but he would switch to an Ebonics dialect when talking to prole blacks) who was a pretty good programmer. But then I worked with dozens of Indian programmers, so the ratio of Indians to blacks is something like 40 to 1 maybe. Although the black guy was a much better programmer than the average Indian programmer.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • So the black guy was the exception rather than the rule.

        It’s interesting how I was speaking to a group of NAMs (a few blacks and Puerto Ricans) couple days ago, about the shortage of IT workers and told them that they could have the potential to fill them up. They were just as utterly clueless when I told them about expatriating from the United States to Canada, because this country is a complete laughing stock now. Granted, these guys were better than the average welfare inducing NAM in NYC, they were just as unaware/stupid as the typical Liberal Kool Aid drinking tool. These guys had some college education; one guy is now a doorman for a luxury building that Steve Jobs used to have an apt in Central Park, and another guy is a gym teacher/coach for a soccer team, at a specialized public school.

        JS

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • I don’t know about “plenty of blacks and Hispanics working in IT,” but the very few I’ve come across operated as the very front line triage, “ah, you need to reboot…”

        There were zero blacks or Hispanics in my undergrad Computer Science program; one black Jamaican in my 4-course graduate CS minor program; and one lazy black American software engineer at my former employer’s 5000-person R&D facility of a large defense contractor.

        @peterike: I think part of the reason for this is that those black and Hispanic kids really haven’t the slightest idea what it means to be a computer programmer.

        Yep.

        E. Rekshun

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  6. Whites are tied with blacks for the lowest cost of living in the USA, and have the most family wealth. The first point is easy to forget since the minority of whites in big coastal cities live in the best neighborhoods. But PA, OH, MI, IA, KY etc feature tens of millions of whites in suburban or small town areas with good schools and paid off $120,000 4-bed 3-bath houses.

    There is not much need to choose a career you don’t like for the money, $40,000 is enough to support a wife and kids easily.

    The typical Hispanic or Asian living in a crappy but expensive part of NY, DC, CA has a ton of poor relatives and needs to spend 400,000 for a semi decent house, so they’ll do roofing, programming, and other horrible jobs.

    Newt

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Blacks have the most family wealth in low cost areas? Tell that to the liberals. Unless you’re telling me that only blacks who live in the blue areas are broke.

      JS

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  7. I think for most people born into the lower classes, they think of a good career more in terms of money than enjoyment. The first kid in the family to graduate from college might get a job working 55 hour weeks running a business. His child who grew up comfortably then decides to become an astrophysicist. It will be interesting to see what second and third generation middle class Hispanics and blacks do.

    I’m surprised that computers are viewed as a “money” job. There are plenty of people genuinely interested in them.

    BehindTheLines

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • They form gangs, commit crimes, and go to prison. Haven’t you noticed this by now? It’s not like blacks and hispanics showed up last year.

      map

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Exactly. We already know that 3rd and 4th generation Hispanics are, in general, worse off than their immigrant grandparents, and much more likely to be on dah welfare. And why not? Their forbears came from nations where there’s no such thing as a “social safety net,” but their children figured out pretty quickly that in America you can do nothing at all and live off whitey.

        I like to be in America!
        O.K. by me in America!
        Ev’rything free in America!

        peterike

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Pete – I find blacks 100X more intolerable than Hispanics, not that I’m advocating for them. At least you find Hispanic store owners in NYC. Find me a black guy who owns a real business in NYC, besides a crappy dugout selling music in Harlem, that has been there before the gentrification process.

        JS

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  8. I don’t know what it’s like in NYC, but in the upper Midwest people of northern European heritage do see work as part of a values system. Yea, they expect ROI from their work, but it’s seen as something proper, something that “should” be part of your life. You would never hear a business conversation starting out with expectations of “What does it pay” (though of course it would evolve into a negotiation)? Though work isn’t seen as self actualization, rather a necessity.

    internet commenter

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Yes, this is true, even in my New England, Catholic upbringing, and that of all me peers, Finding and holding down a job at 15 y/o was expected. Now that my parents are long since retired, and sort of lose track of which day of the week it is, they look at me funny and ask, “Why aren’t you at work today?” “Dad, it’s Saturday.”

      E. Rekshun

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  9. What’s the black respondent going to say? “Nah, I ain’t for working for no computer, man, I jus gone get m’gibmedats.”

    smead jolley

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  10. Peterike nailed it. As an illustration, a cafe-au-lait colored high school junior in the Bay Area once told me how he was good at math. So I gave him pen and paper and asked him to figure .60 x 38. He had no clue. This kid was Egyptian, but went to a majority black school with mostly black teachers.

    Terrified

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Smead, when you change your username without entering a different email address, your avatar remains the same.

      Random Black Guy

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Oh no! Exposed!

        smead jolley

        June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Just helping you out Smead/Not A Hacker/Alonzo Portfolio. It’s pretty awkward on threads where we can see you responding to yourself,

        RBG

        June 21, 2014 at EDT am

    • Well what do you expect when the educational system is infested with insanity like “Reform Mathematics.” From wiki:

      “Reform mathematics curricula challenge students to make sense of new mathematical ideas through explorations and projects, often in real contexts. Reform texts emphasize written and verbal communication, working in cooperative groups, making connections between concepts, and connections between representations. By contrast, “traditional” textbooks emphasize procedural mathematics and provide step-by-step examples with skill exercises.”

      In other words, nobody is going to learn any actual math. But it turns math into an exercise in social skills, and NAMs are pretty good at those (e.g. talking a lot of bullshit in a group while the white and Asian kids do the work).

      peterike

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • You did not do this.

      Renault

      June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  11. My interpretation is that blacks see computers as a way to become extremely wealthy as heard in rap lyrics referencing the wealth of Bill Gates or Mark Zuck

    Karl

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  12. self-actualization is a middle class value? i thought bobos were above middle.

    very few are lucky enough to love what they do or get paid to do what they love. but this is the secret of success after a not very high threshold of ability.

    why don’t ceos retire after one annual pay package? they’s never have risen to ceo if they didn’t love what it took to get there.

    doing some sort of work does seem like an impulse of most people. but their “work” is usually something like becoming a good surfer.

    hard work in the sense of doing things you hate, in the sense of ascetism, is disgusting. i’d rather live on gilligan’s island.

    jorge videla

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Mary Anne or Ginger?

      E. Rekshun

      June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

      • mary anne AND betty for sure.

        but i love irish settters.

        jorge videla

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

  13. Black and Hispanic women robbing SWPL women in Washington Heights/Inwood?

    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Women-Robberies-Inwood-Washington-Heights-Upper-Manhattan-NYPD-263940061.html

    With de Blasio as mayor, don’t expect NAMs to disappear from NYC anytime soon. And we’re probably gonna see him get re-elected, given the fact that the Big Apple becomes less attractive by the day. The Giuliani-Bloomberg eras are now over.

    JS

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

  14. Blacks and Hispanics correctly see computer programming as a solid career in the middle class. But it’s also a serious daily grind. I think upper-middle class and upper class whites realize that for every brilliant computer programmer churning out code there’s a smart manager, financier and legal guy making ten times that for a lot less work. The programmer will make $50k a year, the startup guy who can hype it into a product and attract venture capital firms or an acquirer will make $50 mil.

    Chucks

    June 20, 2014 at EDT pm

    • These days most legal guys are underemployed.

      Curle

      June 21, 2014 at EDT am

  15. And yet very few blacks actually pursue a career in computers. Most blacks have no idea what programming is. They think it sounds cool and smart. It’s like when they dress up and wear glasses as fashion accessories when they don’t really need them. It’s all ego and show.

    I do, however, think there’s something to the practical money-making versus actualization stereotype. I read a story a few years ago which said whites going into the military were much more likely to choose combat roles and that blacks were more likely to choose support roles that could give them skills for when they get out. The whites were viewing it as an adventure and blacks as job training. In that situation, blacks apparently are showing more sense than whites.

    If your family has 100 million then you can afford to self-actualize aka f*cking around. Otherwise, screw self-actualization and make the money. You can self-actualize after you’re rich. OH NOS! destructure doesn’t have bobo values! Then, again, maybe I do? Bobos say they want to self-actualize. But so many choose lucrative careers. Whereas I say I don’t want to self actualize while toiling away in my prole business. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve got a great gig and love doing what I do. Yet I still long to quit everything and sail away into the sunset to the tune of Orinoco Flow. Who doesn’t?

    destructure

    June 21, 2014 at EDT am

    • self-actualize aka f*cking around.

      Yes, a perfect and accurate definition.

      E. Rekshun

      June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

      • but not for everyone. lloyd blankfein has been gs’s ceo for how long? every year 60m +? he’s not doing it out of a sense of duty. it is self-actualization for him.

        jorge videla

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

  16. my impression is that dumber people just identify computer based jobs as extremely high paying, prestigious and the domain of extremely intelligent people. i’ve been told numerous times by (dumb) people “oh you could be a computer programmer” because i give off the impression of intelligence and competence. i’d assume that white people are just more clued into the fact that IT sucks, doesn’t pay all that well and there are better jobs out there.

    James N.S.W

    June 21, 2014 at EDT am

    • Spot on.

      E. Rekshun

      June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

  17. dumber people still have mindsets stuck in the 80s that the big indicator of intelligence is an affinity for computers.

    James N.S.W

    June 21, 2014 at EDT am

    • Does the perception of society changes regarding that particular stereotype? Perhaps the people at Goldman with 1550 SAT scores are those who know how to conceal their image of being wealthy smart people.

      Latias

      June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

  18. Self actualization is for people who have a higher conscientiousness, higher IQs and higher future time orientation. If all of our liberal policies have been diverted to a poorer, yet substantially smarter population, we wouldn’t find idiots who waste their freebies at the candy store and see their homes as a dumping ground.

    JS

    June 21, 2014 at EDT am

  19. Not very meaningful taking this bit of info on its own. What are their relative perceptions of other careers?

    anon

    June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

  20. There seems to be a shortage of workers in Canada, including those in the IT field. White proles in America, who are fed up with our country, would probably be accepted to work there, if they applied for such jobs and have the right skills.

    I can’t see this country being better than the day before it, with our current economic and welfare/immigration policies.

    The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?_r=0

    JS

    June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

  21. Not all programming jobs are created equal. Blacks in programming tend to do more low level code maintenance, enhancements and reactive/support – based work. And they do it for public sector or government-based companies like lockheed, general dynamics or the cdc, where lots of people share their same role. They’re not the ones developing the cutting edge, “greenfield” projects or doing new product creation.

    camlost

    June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Have you ever seen engineers at lockheed or gendym? it is hordes of old white guys.

      Considering most of the decent engineering jobs there need basic secret clearance, it is the perfect job for average/above-average white american tech majors. They are shielded from h1-b competition as well.

      Defense and Defense contracting is a massive make-work program for average white people from ‘prole’ universities.

      uatu

      June 22, 2014 at EDT am

      • According to Fussell most universities are non-elite if not prole. And most college degrees are non-elite if not prole. I think he defined a university as a place where only the very top students (no more than 2 or 3 percent of the population) are able to gain admittance. IIRC he estimated there were no more than a hundred or so real colleges and universities in the US and these were all institutions that possessed the title ‘college’ or ‘university’ prior to WWII. He considered all the others some sort of trade school passing itself off as a college or university with the connivance of the American political elite seeking to inflate the self-esteem of those attending the newly minted (circa 60s) colleges.

        Curle

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Without those “make work” defense contractors, we would all be speaking German and/or Japanese now. Defense is far more important than Wall St. Or Hollywood. Tell me, what do you do that is of more importance?

        Michael

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • @Michael:

        Ah, I forgot it was 1942 and the Wehrmacht and Imperial Navy are surrounding us in a global pincer movement.

        Another rube is exposed on “the lion”. This is the default answer whenever questioning military spending; “we would all be speaking german or japanese”. Essentially you are extrapolating one instance of massive military mobilization and spending onto every other period of history henceforth.

        Ridiculous.

        uatu

        June 24, 2014 at EDT pm

      • @uatu- the defense industry and its scientists and engineers helped to a very large extent to defeat the Germans and Japanese in WWII. Now it will protect us from terrorism, rogue nations, and China. Oh, yes, we won’t need to defend ourselves from China. China will simply take over economically, aided by our non-capable Harvard/Yale/et al fluff major/lawyer politicians and the Ivy League MBA air head captains of industry and Wall St, simply exporting more and more jobs to cheap labor countries.

        Michael

        June 26, 2014 at EDT am

      • @uatu- ok then, we would be speaking Arabic and practicing Islam, then.

        Michael

        June 26, 2014 at EDT am

  22. If guys had any sense, they’d head to the oil fields right after high school and make 150k/year to drive a truck. Instead, they rack up debt and waste their youth in universities.

    Heck, almost anything is better option than uni. You’re going to have no money (and therefore no sex with hot girls) at the stage in your life when you need it the most.

    Kicking myself knowing how many hookers and sexcations to South America / the Philippines my uni tuition alone would’ve bought me.

    Scott

    June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

    • amen brother

      Ryan_Clark

      June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Is it really so hard to have sex in college? In his novel I Am Charlotte Simmons, Tom Wolfe led older generations to imagine that college campuses post 80s were mostly about hooking up. That young women were more than happy to accommodate the boys in most any activity.

      Curle

      June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • From what I observed, a guy in that environment needs to be in the top 20% in looks to even be in the running. Keep in mind, most guys in college are decent looking and have a borderline 6-pack to begin with. So it mostly comes down to genetic facial aesthetics.

        Scott

        June 23, 2014 at EDT am

  23. Hispanic doorman in my parents house studied computer science in Manhattan college. In my three years of doing technical interviews in IT never have I interviewed a Hispanic and only once a black from Africa with a PhD in CS that fell short of what I was looking for. They definitely have no clue.

    Yakov

    June 21, 2014 at EDT pm

    • Which means our liberal programs are a waste of money, and we’re better off seeing it flush down the toilet instead. Technical schools in NYC are all about Hispanics and blacks. Waste of administrative work, waste of real estate and a waste of subsidized resources.

      JS

      June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

    • They definitely have no clue

      NYC’s large Caribbean Hispanic and black population are what I call ignorant losers. Well, let’s not talk about blacks, because they’re the same everywhere. Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, the most parochial minded people I’ve come across in the Big Apple. They have no sense of geography, not even their roots, worse than the Italian proles of Staten Island or the Jersey Shore. Latin American Hispanics and acculturated Mexican types show more of a potential of being curious minded about the world.

      JS

      June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • It’s funny because last month I remember a few White Brazilians were buying beer at a supermarket where this lady at the cash register was Dominican. One of the Brazilian guys for some reason was perceptive and asked the girl if she was from the Dominican Republic. And she said yes, where he responded, I’ve been to your country and it was very interesting. She replied asking him, oh yeah, so where are you from, to which he responded Brazil, and she asked him where’s Brazil.

        These are the kind of people whom Bill de Blasio loves to pander. It’s amazing how 3rd Worlders who live in NYC are a lot more ignorant than 3rd Worlders in their homeland.

        JS

        June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

  24. JS said:

    “JS on June 22, 2014 at 12:58 pm
    the us is the worst thing to ever happen to the world.

    Americans love extremes.

    1) The most proletariat of all the industrialized nations

    2) The most overweight population of all the industrialized nations

    3) The most racist of all the industrialized nations

    4) The least integrated of all the industrialized nations

    5) The least upward mobile of all the industrialized nations

    6) The least intelligent population of all the industrialized nations”

    What a load of garbage. Most of these can be traced back to the fact that the U.S. has the largest percentage NAM population among first world nations.

    Bitter clinger

    June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

    • that’s what flag waiving conservative retards think. but they’re wrong.and js forgot that americans are the most patriotic.

      1) The most proletariat of all the industrialized nations (true of its whites)

      2) The most overweight population of all the industrialized nations (true of its whites)

      3) The most racist of all the industrialized nations (true of its whites)

      4) The least integrated of all the industrialized nations

      5) The least upward mobile of all the industrialized nations (true of its whites)

      6) The least intelligent population of all the industrialized nations (true of its whites)

      jorge videla

      June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • Having lived as a minority in a majority-Asian community I must take issue with your characterization of American whites as most racist. Whites have nothing on Asians in the racial animus department, especially when it comes to blacks.

        Curle

        June 23, 2014 at EDT am

      • Curle – It took many decades for the Chinese/Asians to be partially accepted in American society.

        Spain already has a large Chinese community in Madrid in the past 20 years, and what I’ve been hearing, they are doing great. They also have a large Muslim community, but they have to abide to certain rules dictated by the Spanish gov’t, unlike in England, where Muslims dictate to the English majority what they want.

        Anglosphere nations do a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE job integrating their non-White subjects, whether it’s in the UK, Australia or New Zealand, and even in Canada.

        JS

        June 23, 2014 at EDT pm

      • And of course, the good ol’ USA, where multiculturalism has run afoul now.

        JS

        June 23, 2014 at EDT pm

    • It’s not a load of garbage, considering that’s one of the primary reasons, and our divide and conquer tactics used by our elites certainly don’t help either.

      If you read my posts, I’m sort of advocating people to leave this country if you’re fed up with America and our wrecked cultural values and failed multiculturalism. You are probably better off in a 3rd World country such as Peru, than to work your ass off here in the states, where you could only afford to live in a shoddy neighborhood such Oakland or some place in Detroit with NAMs. But even those who are better off, might consider camping out before the sh*t hits the fan and the gates are shutoff completely.

      JS

      June 22, 2014 at EDT pm

      • That’s my plan. Just saw a white kid (whigger?) walking, if that is the word, down the street with a black friend both doing what used to be called the pimp roll (does it have a new name yet?) both dressed in the most absurd ghetto outfits, dumb long shorts, sports jersey, wild sunglasses and baseball cap turned at an angle. If anything, the white kid looked even more idiotic than the black kid. This is what America is coming to. Nowhere in S. America, or even Mexico, do people go so far out of their way to look like idiots. I’ve got my Rosetta Stone and I’m studying Spanish. Montevideo or Lima awaits.

        Curle

        June 23, 2014 at EDT am

      • Many Americans are denial that this country is in the toilet. Socially, it’s a complete insane asylum, and economically, Americans are working harder just to pay their bills from a decade ago, especially when it comes to housing and food. If not, welfare subsidies are up, more people are on food stamps and that includes White demographic. It’s different from Europe where gov’t welfare makes people happy and educated middle class are the main recipients of it, unlike here in the states, where the poor are the only ones who qualify. Big cities throughout the country, are just teeming with immigrants from 3rd world nations and disenfranchised NAMs.

        By the way, I waiting for the startup bubble to burst, just another status signaling Kool Aid crowd, who idle around thinking that they will become the next Mark Zuckerberg. Just about every startup is a Facebook, Google or another social media front providing the same services.

        JS

        June 24, 2014 at EDT pm


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