Lion of the Blogosphere

How to game financial aid: must read

Do you have children who will be going to college one day? (And if you have kids who are not going to go to college one day, get off this blog, you prole!)

Then you must read this Wall Street Journal article about how to game the financial aid system.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

September 26, 2014 at 8:14 AM

Posted in Education, Investments

142 Responses

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  1. My kid speaks Russian and is very good at getting people to sign up for credit cards at her mall clothes store job. When she turns 18, she’s going to commute to a major city to sell high end cars to free spending Russian immigrants. Does that make us proles?


    September 26, 2014 at 8:35 AM

    • yes

      the scam empire, my offices are in NYC!

      September 26, 2014 at 9:06 AM

    • A 40 yr old selling used cars at a second rate lot is prole. An 18 yr old selling high end cars isn’t because of her age, product and clientele. It’s a great way for a younger person to make money while going to school. But she should have higher aspirations, either in terms of education/career or marriage.


      September 28, 2014 at 2:12 AM

      • Second this. Any job experience is good for a younger person under age 25 or thereabouts.

        Miss Minnie

        September 28, 2014 at 12:58 PM

  2. The lesson here is… Save and don’t borrow a lot of money if you’re not willing to research and deal with sophisticated bureaucracies who are more powerful than you are. Especially don’t borrow a lot of money from lenders with future variable terms and lots of rules, like the government and their private “aid” offshoots.

    People who spend more time and energy trying to game the system, incorrectly thinking “it’s their right” to do so, rather than saving and paying outright when the time comes will end up paying a lot more in interest and fees. Paying outright is efficient. Then again, one needs future time orientation in order to have a good idea upfront of what they want to do with their lives as well as being able to stick with those decisions. Government “aid” programs do expect people to stick to reasonable paths that create better outcomes, that’s their point. If one changes mid course because it’s convenient at the time yet breaches contract, what do they expect?

    the scam empire, my offices are in NYC!

    September 26, 2014 at 9:06 AM

    • I remember an attempt we made 18 years ago
      to save specifically for our kids to go to University.
      It turned out to be “life insurance” with some flavor of labeled as “educational”.
      What a naiveté on our part.
      (By the way, I had no intention to put “Accent aigu” into this word of French origin,
      it was spell-checker that made me doing that.)
      We dropped from it immediately,
      at a cost of about $ 100 for breach of contract, signed half a day earlier.
      We ended by paying for 4 years of MIT for son and 4 years of Cornell for daughter (2002 – 2006, dept. of Chemistry and Chemical Biology), both in full.
      No financial aid was available for them (us):
      we had absolutely no assets, but a little over the limit of nominal salary to be eligible for aid.

      Immigrant from former USSR

      September 26, 2014 at 11:57 AM

    • Colleges jack the price of tuition at a rate so far exceeding inflation that it’s very difficult to save in order to pay outright.


      September 26, 2014 at 1:23 PM

  3. FAFSA bases it’s income determination of the parent’s previous year’s income tax return. That should give you a good idea of what sort of financial aid situation you’re in. Best bet: Just join the military and you can get 50K with the new GI Bill.

    Mike Street Station

    September 26, 2014 at 9:28 AM

    • This is such bad advice. The 50K from the GI Bill will just reduced your financial aid by 50K so it’s a big waste. Only proles enlist in the military.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 26, 2014 at 1:45 PM

      • Right. And the vast majority of the population are proles. You can get a 4 year state school education for 50k. Then you have no student loan debt. I know you might find this surprising, but not everyone goes to the Ivy League.

        Mike Street Station

        September 26, 2014 at 1:57 PM

      • Mike Street Station is correct. Most people are proles and the military is a good route for lawyers wanting to get a gig as an admin. law judge for a federal agency because of veteran’s preference. A smart officer who isn’t a lawyer leaving as a colonel or higher can often snag a good job working in local government or as an elected in a Republican district. Republicans love the military. In Manhattan, not so much . . ..


        September 28, 2014 at 2:12 PM

      • Whether prove or not, people enlist out of idealism, patriotism and for adventure, Lion. When it becomes all about benefits and selfishness, the people and the army lose it’s fighting capability. Just look at this country’s military performance in the last two decades.
        Historically military service is not prole, but an honorable occupation. To serve one’s country and to die for it is an honor, Lion. The royalty and nobility served and died in the battlefield.


        September 29, 2014 at 7:35 AM

      • “Historically military service is not prole, but an honorable occupation.

        That’s true. But you have to go back pretty far in history.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 29, 2014 at 11:25 AM

      • Not that far: Ford and Bush served, Stalin and Krushev each lost a son in combat. Practically all Israel leaders served, Russian Empirial family served, British royal family still serves. It’s still considered an honor by large part of the population.


        September 29, 2014 at 2:22 PM

    • The military is a full time job. Think of the opportunity cost you would loose. Plus, I don’t know about you but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to put my children into the position where they would be ordered to fire upon their people!


      September 26, 2014 at 10:30 PM

      • “I sure as hell wouldn’t want to put my children into the position where they would be ordered to fire upon their people!”

        That statement is ridiculous and doesn’t merit a response.

        However you are correct that spending 4 years active duty has to be weighed against other options. It’s not a one size fit’s all. For most of the middle class, you are weighing that against paying for school with student loans. If you’re admitted to an elite school, then it’s probably better to jump at that chance and take the student loans since as Lion will frequently point out, and elite school can pay off much more down the line than just a marketable degree from any other college. For most people, being admitted to an elite school isn’t an option.

        Mike Street Station

        September 27, 2014 at 8:52 AM

      • Tell your children to enlist as medical personnel. If their ASVAB scores are higher than 80, they’ll be given their choice of jobs. If your children are actually *smart*, they can play the “Yeah, cross-training into Computer Systems or Linguistics in a few years *does* sound like a good idea…”, card until their Bachelors’ degrees have been earned.


        September 27, 2014 at 3:00 PM

  4. I will be speaking to a group of PhD academics (not tenured snobs who hog the Ivory Tower pyramid scheme) about starting home schooling programs for middle income families and perhaps even high income families (now that prestigious institutions have been damaged by liberals, who are admitting more non-Whites with less inquisitive behaviors and qualifications). This could be a new catalyst for alternative higher education, and instead of working for the college with little pay and no benefits, they could be working for themselves and with more freedom as well. Sort of like accountants, lawyers and doctors with their private practice.


    September 26, 2014 at 10:10 AM

    • JS, what do you mean by a “home schooling program?” I’m confused. Do you mean that these scholars would be working as private tutors? If so, then only a small number of families could afford them. It sounds more like SWPL or TOOS territory than middle class. Or are you talking about developing some kind of home-schooling curriculum that could be sold to middle-class families? The latter sounds like a more proimising idea. But of course, SWPLs or SWPL wanna-bes, would suffer from the stigma attached to home-schooling that evangelicals and other religious families suffer from: the misperception that home-schooled kids are introverted, undereducated in science, and taught with a one-sided curriculum that doesn’t encourage intellectual exploration or independent thought. How many SWPLs would have the patience to endure the “home schooling stigma” while a new SWPL-oriented home schooling image develops and is eventually accepted? This kind of stigma wouldn’t bother me, but then I’m prole (and also evangelical) all the way. My guess is that most SWPLs would shun the idea and sooner be willing to buy a home in Staten Island with a plastic Madonna on the lawn!


      September 28, 2014 at 8:50 AM

      • I predict that very soon, there will be a trend of rich people hiring private tutors and governesses to “homeschool” their chidren. It’s what the rich used to do in the past, and there are a lot of otherwise unemployable college graduates.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 28, 2014 at 9:26 AM

      • While we’re discussing education: Can anyone here recommend a book I could give a 14 year old boy that would help with making him future-oriented, especially toward saving and investing? Something like the Dave Ramsey “Total Money Makeover” kind of book? This boy is probably 120-125 in IQ but is starting to show signs of the “high potential-low achiever” syndrome.” I myself took that route and it took me years to get back on track, so I messed up my financial situation big time. But I’d like to help this young relative of mine avoid the same fate. Unfortunately, most books about saving and investing are for adults or they’re for small children and along the lines of a “Tommy takes the choo-choo train to the bank” (i.e. they’re too babyish.)


        September 28, 2014 at 10:17 AM

      • I predict that very soon, there will be a trend of rich people hiring private tutors and governesses to “homeschool” their chidren.

        Just have private tutors teach through online lectures while the students stay home. They could teach multiple students at once, thereby reducing tuition for all students. All teachers do even at the best private schools is stand in front of a class and talk. What difference does it make if that’s done through an iPad FaceTime session?

        SWPLs will deflect “homeschooling” accusations with some nonsense about how virtual grade schools are specialized training programs and therefore don’t qualify as “prole” education.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 28, 2014 at 10:37 AM

      • It’s what the rich used to do in the past, and there are a lot of otherwise unemployable college graduates.

        Increasingly there are too many Asian students for private schools to justify their tuition rates. The Asian student population keeps increasing despite private schools having covert, Ivy-like Asian caps. The more Asians there are the more the declining number of white private schools can price gauge white parents who are running out of options. Certainly whites can no longer use public schools they pay property taxes on.

        Short of implementing overt racial segregation against Asian students (elite whites might go this route as the negatives caused by non-white immigration increase every second) expect upper and upper middle whites to shift to internet schooling.

        I’m certainly not paying $20-30,000 in today’s dollars to put my children (when I have them in about 20-30 years) in a 90% Asian private school.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 28, 2014 at 10:52 AM

      • SWPLs will probably hire home tutors with PhD credentials when their children are at college age and opt out of the college experience because the schools are flooded with too many Asians and other non-Whites. They will also create their own “country clubs” if they haven’t already where their children will socialize with children of other SWPL families. Now that online education and distance learning have made a viable alternative to traditional college learning and attendance, I expect more innovative and radical ways of learning to become mainstream. And this will happen first and mainly in Western countries.


        September 28, 2014 at 11:45 AM

      • This already happens, except that the kids also go to a non-demanding school so they can socialize with other elites.


        September 28, 2014 at 2:09 PM

      • “I predict that very soon, there will be a trend of rich people hiring private tutors and governesses to “homeschool” their chidren.” ——————————————

        And save all the networking for college? I’ve gotten some reasonable networking (and status) returns off of prep. school connections.


        September 28, 2014 at 2:19 PM

      • @ Maryk –

        For very basic investing, Understanding Wall Street by Jeffrey Little is a good place to start. It’s easy to read and inexpensive. I was given a copy when I was about your relative’s age.


        September 29, 2014 at 8:49 PM

      • “For very basic investing, Understanding Wall Street by Jeffrey Little is a good place to start”

        Thank you. I’ll look into this book. And now, I need to go look up the word “nebbish” because I don’t know its definition and I really should! The best thing about this website is how it constantly inspires me to learn more – and about how it teaches a person all these acronyms/terms pertaining to the various social classes and their careers – TOOS, SWPL, Bobo, Prole, etc.. And I’ll add a new social class designation for people who are not likely to improve their status but still aim for personal improvement and societal betterment – LMCBT – Lower Middle Class But Trying. Or maybe LAP – (Lion-Approved Prole!)


        September 29, 2014 at 11:51 PM

      • @Mary

        Give him a compilation of Buffet.

        First Ypres

        September 30, 2014 at 9:48 PM

      • Excuse me Buffett.

        First Ypres

        September 30, 2014 at 9:48 PM

  5. If my kid gets into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Duke, etc., we’ll figure out how to make it work. We’ll borrow on our home equity, sell some mutual funds, etc. However, if the best college he gets into is Farleigh Dickinson, then there better be a lot of financial aid (highly unlikely as we live in Fairfield County, CT and are white). Otherwise, it’s off to state school. I just can’t fathom paying huge sums to private second-tier colleges. If we end up having to pay a lot more than we would have paid for state school (UConn), it better be a really good school.


    September 26, 2014 at 10:20 AM

    • I have the same feeling about my kids. My list is shorter though. Harvard, Stanford, maybe a couple more. The advantage being connections rather than higher quality education.

      September 26, 2014 at 2:16 PM

      • Private colleges where I think it’s worth shelling out the big bucks to make it work: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Columbia, Penn, MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford, Duke. Maybe a couple of others. Out of state public schools where it’s worth it: UVa, William & Mary, Miami of Ohio, Colorado School of the Mines (if that’s really what your kid wants to study), and maybe certain programs at Mich, UIUC, UCLA.


        September 27, 2014 at 8:45 PM

      • To your list I’d add Cambridge and Oxford. Perhaps some others European schools. I believe Oxbridge, if you can get it, maxes out at $18K per year, which seems doable.


        September 28, 2014 at 3:42 PM

    • UConn is a pretty good deal for an in-state student. I can’t believe people would snub their noses at a school like that, especially if you are in the honors program.


      September 26, 2014 at 2:21 PM

      • Doesn’t even make top 100 of colleges/universities for average entering SAT. Several of the second tier liberal arts schools are on that list (as are the prestigious universities). I’d choose a stable (and always marketable) high SAT school on that list over something with a decent local rep but no national rep. My state has one small liberal arts college that makes the list (Whitman College at #69) but the flagship state university, the University of Washington (thought to be prestigious by naive locals) doesn’t make the list.


        September 28, 2014 at 2:58 PM

      • And a decent second tier liberal arts school will likely cost 100k+. The endowment is not very good at these schools. Anybody who blows off a full ride at Uconn to attend Wesleyan at sticker is crazy (assuming less than 125k household income).

        UConn is a better value assuming your smart child avoids the riff-raff, which is possible.


        September 29, 2014 at 10:32 AM

    • Probably it will be the other way round- the very top schools give a ton of aid so their net cost is small, but the less elite private schools cost a fortune if you don’t get scholarships.


      September 26, 2014 at 2:37 PM

      • Not true. If you are not good enough to get a scholarship from a second tier university, then you are not going to get into an Ivy League school. If an applicant has the SAT scores and grades that are above the 75% of the current student body, that applicant is going to be given financial incentives to enroll. However, if an applicants SAT and grades are at the 25% of the current student body, plan on paying full fare.

        Also, if a student can only afford a school based upon the financial aid received when they are a freshman, what happens when they are upper classman and are no longer getting such good financial aid.


        September 27, 2014 at 6:33 AM

    • ROTC? Military Academies? Why pay for something the public chumps are willing to foot the bill for?

      Mind you, you would then have to give up 5 years of your life to be a pawn to the TOOS but what are the other options?


      September 26, 2014 at 3:02 PM

      • That 5 years wouldn’t be wasted. A military academy degree and 5 years experience as an officer would be highly sought after.


        September 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

      • Qualifies you for a five-figure salary in the DC area working for a government contractor.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 28, 2014 at 12:47 AM

      • Leon

        While it’s true that many military academy grads start out in DC earning 5 figures, unrealistic expectations make that sound less impressive than it actually is. Average starting salary for military academy grads is a lot higher than Princeton, Harvard, Yale, and Columbia. The US Naval academy graduates have the highest starting salary of ANY school. West point is 3rd and the Air Force Academy is in the top 10. Ivy League school grads don’t even make the to 20. If you’ll look at salary rankings, you’ll see that they’re also dominated by graduates of tech schools. Which I frequently see derided on this blog as being for working and middle class kids from flyover country.


        September 28, 2014 at 3:21 AM

      • There’s a confusion between money and class here.

        First Ypres

        September 30, 2014 at 9:47 PM

    • This is the only real way to “game” the system. Don’t go to an overpriced college in the first place. I know any number of families that passed over public colleges and now shoulder massive debt for private second tier schools. One had a son offered 100% scholarship for SB honors but instead are paying 50k+/ yr for 2nd tier private.

      Sure, make an exception if you have an extraordinarily gifted, hard working, focused kid who gets into whatever your shortlist of prestigious schools might be, but most people don’t have those kids- though they like to think they do.

      slithy toves

      September 27, 2014 at 7:57 AM

      • Yeah, exactly, There are many honors programs at CUNY type schools that are geared toward kids who are more driven toward career success, and there are some great state schools, such as Indiana University, U. of Michigan, UNC Chapel Hill and the notorious UCLA. Even lower ranking state schools like Rutgers and SUNY still have a good reputation.

        However, I heard that schools like NYU and Columbia College in Chicago started as for-profit schools along the same lines as DeVry.

        Miss Minnie

        September 28, 2014 at 11:52 AM

    • If my kid gets into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Duke, etc., we’ll figure out how to make it work.

      Forget engineering. The elite rarely sends their children into science – and why would we want rulers who can count?

      If your objective is TOOS, only HYPS justify large debt or paying out of pocket. If admitted to Harvard, of course attend. That’s an easy question.

      The more difficult question (one Lion should take a stand on instead of limiting his scope to only four schools) is whether top 5-15 private schools can still justify their expense.

      Are degrees from Duke, Georgetown, etc, worth +$100,000 in debt? If non-loan aid isn’t available a case could be made for turning down admittance to Georgetown in favor of a good state school (even paying out of state).

      It might be a borderline decision; the calculus depends on how , for example, debt is weighed against potential status gains, degree path, long term earning potential, and other factors. But in an age of quarter million college tuition rates, the question should be asked because the conclusion could well be high school students are better off refusing offers from Georgetown.

      Short of Yale and substantial tuition discounts, avoid private colleges and get a marketable degree from a state school. Definitely turn down any private school ranked below the top 15 and think very hard about the top 5-15.

      That’s short term.

      The long term strategy is to destroy 95% of academic jobs with cheaper online options.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      September 27, 2014 at 11:10 AM

      • I think there is probably less status for a lower level private college that a state school. If I see someone went to Farleigh Dickinson, I kind of can gauge how they did in high school. Not fantastic but not terrible. However, if they went to UConn, I don’t know. They could be mediocre+ to almost fantastic and had a difficult financial situation or didn’t want to pile on debt.

        As for the 5-15, I.e., places like Georgetown, even here it is a little dicey. Maybe it is worth it as a signal indicator and for networking. Depends on what state you are from and the difference in state school reputations and tuitions. So if you are from Montana and get into Georgetown, well, Georgetown might be a good decision as your other options are in Montana or paying out of state rate. If however you are from Virginia, in state publics include UVA, William & Mary, VMI or even GMU then Georgetown is a harder sell.


        September 28, 2014 at 8:27 AM

      • Farleigh Dickinson used to be known as fairly ridiculous. Prole private colleges are definitely lower on the totem pole than state schools.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 28, 2014 at 9:24 AM

      • Don’t go to Fairleigh Dickinson for engineering. It is hugely expensive and weak in the field. In NJ, the best schools are Stevens and Princeton. Rutgers is ok in engineering, if you can’t get into the first two.


        September 28, 2014 at 10:01 AM

      • Yes, the “elites” are too dumb to study engineering. Why go to college at all if you’re rich? You don’t need a degree to earn a living, and you already have family connections so you also don’t need the Harvard, Yale, et al finishing and charm school from which to gain connections.


        September 28, 2014 at 10:06 AM

      • College proves that you’re not a prole.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 28, 2014 at 11:22 PM

      • As for the 5-15, I.e., places like Georgetown, even here it is a little dicey. Maybe it is worth it as a signal indicator and for networking. Depends on what state you are from and the difference in state school reputations and tuitions.

        For potentially $250,000 in debt, there had better not be any doubt about whether it’s worth it. Which is why I say Lion’s advice only applies to the top 1-4.

        T-14 Law schools are now down to T-8 or T-10. If there are stories about Georgetown law grads struggling after graduation, it’s a safe bet diminishing returns now applies to Georgetown undergrads.

        Your hypothetical Montana student is better off paying out of state tuition for UVA than Georgetown. There’s no reason to limit himself to Montana public colleges unless he can’t afford out of state tuition; but in that case neither can he afford private school.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 28, 2014 at 11:01 AM

      • The elite rarely sends their children into science – and why would we want rulers who can count?

        America remains to be a country of imbeciles when it comes to science, all thanks to value transference and cash cow maniacs who import Asian students from China into their colleges/universities who fill the STEM quota. This results in lowering the prestige of the schools and ultimately forcing SWPLs to find other alternatives in the near future when it comes to higher education all because they don’t want their kids to be surrounded by Asians. I predict doom and gloom for our beloved SWPL class.


        September 28, 2014 at 9:09 PM

      • College proves that you’re not a prole.

        Wrong! And wrong again, Lion. Let’s encourage SWPLs to send their children to CUNY.


        September 29, 2014 at 9:51 AM

    • Uconn is not terrible. Certainly a better option for you than a private school that’s not ivy, duke or Stanford.


      September 27, 2014 at 11:39 AM

  6. O/T – Lion – Higher education in America is a complete muck up because they are viewed as vocational schools. Americans still have a frontier mentality, hence the the perpetual proletariat view of the world where everything needs to have an immediate pragmatic use and anti-intellectualism is abound.

    Many SWPLs are no different from Proles, it’s all about money. Furthermore, slightly less than half of the SWPL population don’t believe in evolution and climate change wholeheartedly, because most SWPLs don’t have an interest in STEM and don’t understand the logistics behind it.


    September 26, 2014 at 10:25 AM

    • “Furthermore, slightly less than half of the SWPL population don’t believe in evolution and climate change wholeheartedly, because most SWPLs don’t have an interest in STEM and don’t understand the logistics behind it.”

      LOL. Yes, there’s nothing more troubling in this world than many SWPLs lack sufficient faith in Darwinism and global climate warming weather chaos disruption change because liberal arts degrees.


      September 26, 2014 at 5:58 PM

      • They are no different from the prolier evangelicals from Sweet Home Alabama in that regard. The United States ranks bottom when it comes to any rational scientific knowledge of its citizens of all the 1st world nations.

        I won’t be surprised if SWPLs believe in creationism just as much as the citizens of the Bible Belt, but for different reasons. God was a hipster and he preordained Williamsburg and Portland for his lot. LOL!


        September 27, 2014 at 12:04 PM

    • Proles, especially high proles, are not as anti-intellectual as they often appear to be. Just as Italian-Americans suffer because of the ostentatious anti-intellectualism of guidos that gives the whole group a bad image, proles in general suffer from such an image because of the lower element proles who are truly anti-intellectual an often low in IQ.. But high proles correctly perceive that what you study in school affects your life earnings and so it makes sense to view schooling as vocational. The fact is that a real liberal arts curriculum would take about 6-8 years beginning at age 14 and leave no room for vocational traning. Trying to do 2 years of liberal arts in college and two years of vocational/professional training often leaves people deficient in both areas. And then there’s a factor we rarely mention: education for the purpose of self-betterment is supposed to be a lifelong process. People have the rest of their lives to read “the classics.” The truth is that you don’t really need a university to be well-educated. You need it mainly for credentials and to build up a network of future colleagues who can help you professionally. Even though I have both a BA and an MS, most of my education (even in my field) came from independent reading.


      September 26, 2014 at 10:24 PM

      • Prole ARE anti-intellectual by definition. If you read books, you are de facto middle class or class X.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 27, 2014 at 1:07 AM

      • Lion – I think you know better when we say high proles, it means middle class, at least those who have a tinge for reading and other associative habits. High proles would be your typical demographic who are vocational oriented in careers and read books such as investing in the stock market, 50 Shades of Grey and Suze Orman. They also love sports and that includes varsity sports that your beloved SWPL Harvard groomer engages in. What separates them from the SWPLs is their lack of prestige, lack of worldliness, lack of delusional think and their unrealistic dreams.

        Low proles are your guido types and anyone else who behaves like them. Their interests are the lowest order and if they read at all, comic books, thrillers and sci fi would suit them the best.


        September 27, 2014 at 10:24 AM

      • Whew. And here I was worried about my own prole drift. I’m still reading, so there. Guess I can take that job at WalMart after all.


        September 27, 2014 at 4:54 PM

      • By the way, Lion has never made the analogous relationship between guidos and hipsters and their respective prole and SWPL classes. Guidos are counterculture and dysfunctional, not very educated, ignorant, and wear terrible attire. They would shun work just as the self actualizing types. Hipsters are also counterculture and dysfunctional in their own ways, wearing gaudy attire. They appear to be educated but are really ignorant. They also avoid real work just like their more prestigious bobo counterparts. Both groups are generally obnoxious in their own ways.


        September 28, 2014 at 11:59 AM

    • JS,

      In the real world, schools cost money. That money has to be paid back with jobs that the school qualifies you for. Intellectualism is all well and good, but creditors don;t work for free and neither do the professors.

      Yes, it is all about money, not pointless intellectualism that leads to a celibacy and poverty…including stem.


      September 28, 2014 at 3:24 PM

      • Well, the US govt debt is 21 trillion. That’s right, it will be paid back with jobs via taxes and corporate taxes.

        In terms of getting laid and being on poverty, welfare NAMs will tell you differently.


        September 29, 2014 at 9:44 AM

      • @ Map

        By the way, I recently attended an “intellectual” talk that was basically a sausage fest of low tier betas and a few omegas, almost like one of those Sci-Fi conventions or Comic Cons. There were a few mildly attractive women and one very attractive women where these beta/omega orbiters were trying to get her to reciprocate without any avail. It’s really not so much the issue of intellectualism that leads to no sex, but the demographics in that field which are mostly made up of creepy weirdos that are off putting to women. I see the ultimate “Alpha” guy as a Steve Jobs type, who was basically a bad ass sociopath and a creative geek rolled into one that not many guys could act out.


        September 29, 2014 at 11:49 AM

  7. Once again the top and the bottom conspiring against the middle.

    Someone who makes middle class money is doomed to prole drift, simply because they aren’t rich enough to afford college, but not poor enough for welfare.

    If you are middle class and don’t get a scholarship, you are doomed to giant debt your whole life, which will decrease your quality of life.

    Lion, you should write a post about the benefits of prole drift. Imagine two situations:
    1) Middle class guy making 50k, huge college debt, has to dress like a dork for work everyday, no cash to do anything, supports people who hate him

    2) Prole guy, gets food stamps, welfare, disability, spends money on flash clothes, works in the gym all day, has tattoos because he doesn’t need a job, isn’t afraid of fighting people because he can afford to got jail for a year if he has to

    Who gets more attractive women and has more free time to do what he wants and doesn’t have to kiss ass? The prole guy’s life is superior in every way.


    September 26, 2014 at 10:26 AM

    • The average American has a proletariat or frontier mindset that schooling should be vocational and everything needs translate into $$$. Proles are the way they are, not by purpose but by circumstance. The smart thing to do is to siphon gov’t funds and find a productive hobby while you’re at it (which isn’t a prole thing).


      September 26, 2014 at 2:26 PM

    • It isn’t easy to get disability. And few proles have a lot of money to throw around. A large portion are living paycheck to paycheck.


      September 26, 2014 at 11:14 PM

  8. The example that they lead with, the Carney’s, looks like a case of bad choices looking for something to blame. $89,000 in student loans (private ones at that), you let fees accrue to $140,000, and the problem is that you remarried too soon?
    How about attending a state college (which can’t be much worse than this private school)? How about watching your costs, and where you get your loans from?
    Yes, the financial aid rules are opaque, and confusing. But when you caution people about buying vacation homes, my sympathy is gone.

    Half Canadian

    September 26, 2014 at 11:53 AM

    • The WSJ has mastered using outliers to push their agenda…that is anti-government in everything.


      September 26, 2014 at 2:23 PM

  9. Much of this is basic to intermediate financial planning, and understanding the legal implications of various major life events (marriage, death, retirement, inheritance) and the timing associate with them. In other words, it is probably not even a concept that most of the people who need financial aid are even cognizant of. I on the other hand, will definitely take advantage of this.


    September 26, 2014 at 12:12 PM

  10. This article overplays its hand. First, there’s not that much that you can do to game the financial aid system. Now, this woman is a bit of an exception, but she’s an idiot if she didn’t think that getting married and increasing her income via a husband wouldn’t hurt her son’s financial aid package. In fact, by getting married, she and her son did have less need for help. Same goes for inheritance and gifts from grandparents. It’s money available to the kid and should be used for college.

    Also, some of the Costly Moves don’t make sense. Buying an expensive car? Cash is fungible. If they had cash to buy the car, that would hurt their financial aid as much as the asset of a car, so it’s a wash. If they take a loan for the car, it has no value and, therefore, doesn’t hurt financial aid.

    Now placing assets in the student’s name is a bad idea. Another good idea is for parents to keep any financial asset – stocks, bonds, REITs, etc. – in a retirement account since those are generally not considered an asset available for college.

    However, be careful, colleges aren’t blind to how much money you will pay them. Being eligible for need-based grants can hurt your admission chances if you’re a middle of the road applicant. Colleges don’t like to waste their need-based money on white or Asian kids unless that kid has outstanding test scores. Two equal middle of the road applicants, one who would receive $25k in grants and the other getting $10k or none. Which is better for your school? The rich kid because it means more money for the school and because that kid is likely better connected and has a better shot at success.

    Moved On

    September 26, 2014 at 12:52 PM

    • You’re right on all counts. My parents were born in the 30’s (I have very old parents for my age) and, given their health, will likely expire in the next 5 years — just before my oldest children reach university age. You’d better believe I’ve considered the effects of inheritance on financial aid as well as possible splits in case of divorce. That may sound cold and morbid. But it’s a reality one is foolish to ignore.

      I’m not sure what that woman could have done. I suppose they could have gotten married either locally or overseas and never legitimatized it with a marriage license. She could be known as Mrs John Doe to her friends, acquaintances and coworkers. But maintain her maiden name for all her business and financials. That may sound goofy but it’s better than her 25 yr old son being saddled with $140K in debt. Her decision to legally remarried when she did combined with his decision to attend a university out of his budget has ruined his life.

      In light of this, perhaps my cold and morbid logic concerning my own financials isn’t so bad?


      September 26, 2014 at 4:11 PM

  11. Proles game the financial aid.

    Toos have the financial aids named after their ancestors.

    toos is god

    September 26, 2014 at 2:00 PM

    • I know of 2 tenured professors (one of them is a chair of a dept) and they are sending their children to Canadian schools because they’re a lot cheaper and they don’t qualify for aid here in the states because they of their upper middle class background.


      September 30, 2014 at 10:16 AM

  12. O/T – Steve Sailer has an interesting post about as to why Asians hate Miami:

    I always knew along that the sensual and machismo culture of the Caribbean Hispanics (who actually mimic the Alpha Iberian Spaniards in that regard) would make Asians feel uncomfortable and perhaps inadequate. California and the Mestizo Hispanics don’t bother them at all.

    Steve: If you’re reading, here in NYC, Caribbean Hispanics don’t like Asians. Mestizos are a different story!


    September 26, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    • Most Asians I know from Florida live in the northern part because there are too few tech firms in Miami, and NASA is in the north.

      Anecdotally, I’ve always gotten along well with Caribbean people. In fact many of them have Chinese or Indian roots, sometimes you’ll meet a black West Indian with a last name of Chang, Singh or Wang. Also I know Asians who come from the Caribbean and Latin America.

      The main issue is that we’re viewed in a way similar to Jews. But actually, biracial Asians are just accepted as local in some parts of Caribbean culture.

      Miss Minnie

      September 27, 2014 at 12:14 AM

      • Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and even Cubans look down on Asians. The Asians might be socioeconomically more successful, but Caribbean Hispanics view them as sterile, uncultured, and perhaps not attractive or sensual enough for their tastes. And I’m not talking about West Indians, they just don’t have that sexual Latino vibe.


        September 27, 2014 at 10:13 AM

      • Caribbean Hispanics are at the extremes in terms of racial makeup, either they are Mulatto or Euro-Based. White, or nearly full blooded White Hispanics from the Caribbean are direct descendants of Spaniards, some French or Italian. Many White Hispanics from the Carribean are also Hispanic W*ggers, but with more class than your Plain Jane W*ggers in the states.


        September 28, 2014 at 11:27 AM

      • To JS: Tell that to friends I have who grew up as Chinese in Puerto Rico and Latin American countries who are married to women from these countries. Their kids are not looked down upon or stigmatized.

        Also most Hispanic guys are not sensual or alpha. In fact a lot of the Hispanic millenials are interested in Japanese animation and video games, and attend Comic Con.

        Miss Minnie

        September 28, 2014 at 12:23 PM

      • Miss Minnie – There are more Asians in Atlanta, Georgia than the entire state of Florida. The percentage of Asians for Miami is about 1% and Atlanta is about 5%. Are you telling me Atlanta is more desirable and economically stronger than Miami as the sole reason as to why Asians in Miami are almost non-existent?

        Yes, I think the rude, oversexed and macho culture of the Caribbean Hispanics keeps Asians at bay. I don’t think Asians feel comfortable living and doing business in a neighborhood where its population plays Reggeaton and other loud aggressive Latin tunes and act out like what you find in their music.


        September 29, 2014 at 10:24 AM

      • Economically speaking, places like Atlanta, Chapel Hill, Houston and Orlando attract Asians because they have tech firms and extremely large graduate schools. As for North Florida, it’s not always that they directly work for NASA, but some companies have to be near a spaceport.

        Georgia is also home to Georgia Tech which is huge, North Carolina has the Duke and UNC area with research hospitals, where many Asians do medical residencies, and Texas is filled with tech firms such as Space X. Texas also has schools like Texas A&M. All those schools attract tech firms, and the tech firms recruit directly from India and East Asia via H1B.

        The reason why Baton Rouge and NYC attract Asians is because poor immigrant jobs, like shrimp fishing, cab driving, and clothes manufacturing, are common there. Many black and PR New Yorkers’ ancestors did those jobs 60 years ago. Whites did them 100 years ago. Asians and Mexicans do them today.

        Miami-Dade is based on tourism, its main school, FIU, is very different in character from tier-1 research schools like UNC. Miami doesn’t really have manufacturing or fisheries either. Its cargo port is not very large, the port is usually used for tourism.

        BTW. Not all Hispanic music is reggaeton, bachata, salsa etc. Far more Caribbean black Hispanics listen to traditional heavy metal and progressive rock than Americans of any color do. It’s just that you don’t hear about that scene in the US because it doesn’t really exist in the US.

        Miss Minnie

        September 29, 2014 at 8:26 PM

      • I knew a Korean guy (from Korea) who, after graduating from a Northwest college, landed a teaching position at FIU. He hated it there so much he took the first job offered back in Korea. He told me he found the dumb students (and he singled out Hispanics) annoying. He’d been teaching whites in the Seattle area prior to FIU.


        September 30, 2014 at 12:46 AM

      • If you read Steve Sailer’s post again, the real question is why the Chinese Foreign Nationals haven’t bought any real estate and settled in Miami. You SAY it’s a matter of issue like top universities and tech firms. The Chinese Nationals are beginning to settle in the Midwest in large numbers including in the poorer and dumber states such as Indiana. Miami is Latin America. It’s not really an Anglosphere town. The Chinese generally don’t have much influence in Latin countries due to a number of factors. Anglosphere nations are generally liberal and it makes them easy for the Chinese to wield influence.


        September 30, 2014 at 9:45 AM

      • Curle – Hispanics, especially Caribbean Hispanics would be compatible with Asians as much as night with day. Although not as degenerate as blacks, Caribbean Hispanics are just as fiesty, and their culture is a lot more of the Manopshere than what Asians are exposed to.


        September 30, 2014 at 9:54 AM

      • Furthermore, Miami has a lot of beautiful people like what you find in the Telemundo Spanish Soaps. The same goes for many Latin and Southern Euro nations. Combined that with the more fiesty nature of these people, when compared to the sterile Anglosphere, Asians would feel very uncomfortable in such an environment. I can’t possibly imagine Asian men being very comfortable around Latin and Southern Euro men. It’s like Eliot Rodgers trying to become comfortable around Enrique Iglesias at social venues with hot women.


        September 30, 2014 at 10:29 AM

      • JS: The large, dumb states like Indiana are known for land-grant colleges and tech firms. Mechanical engineering grads don’t work in Silicon Valley. Where do you think car and plastic factories are found. The Universities of Iowa and Indiana are actually good. FIU is a hair’s breadth above Fairleigh Dickinson.

        If you’re from the east coast, you may not have actually met a middle class Chinese national before. Most Chinese in places like NYC and Philly are from a prole background in far south China, just like most Italians in NYC and Philly are from prole backgrounds in south Italy.

        “It’s like Eliot Rodgers trying to become comfortable around Enrique Iglesias at social venues with hot women” Yeah, because Iglesias’s mom is also Asian, Rodgers won’t be able to pin his social ineptness on his race.

        Miss Minnie

        September 30, 2014 at 8:49 PM

  13. The worst is to have a lot of your assets in checking or savings accounts. The money should be used to pay off mortgage (build home equity) or moved to certain kinds of retirement accounts. They “count” a lot less. Some schools will not even consider home equity below a fairly high threshold, because they consider it unrealistic for parents to have to sell their primary residence to pay tuition. Basically, be cash poor and hold money in illiquid assets.

    Of course, the best is to have rich grandparents and poor (but self-actualizing) parents. Only parental income and assets are considered in calculating financial aid. If you go to forums like CollegeConfidential, you will occasionally see upper middle class families complaining about old money types getting financial aid.


    September 26, 2014 at 4:39 PM

  14. Not having kids. Problem solved lol.


    September 26, 2014 at 7:56 PM

  15. Why do you hate “proles” so much?

    Joe Walker

    September 26, 2014 at 11:47 PM

    • Because I had to with them in Staten Island.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 27, 2014 at 1:08 AM

      • Were they Guido proles? Maybe non-Guido proles aren’t as unpleasant.


        September 27, 2014 at 10:03 AM

      • Yeah a lot of middle class black people dislike ghetto people, areas, and even things that remind them of the hood. In turn, black proles call them bougie (bourgeois). Asians joke about FOBs (fresh off the boat, like the term greenhorn).

        Miss Minnie

        September 27, 2014 at 11:17 AM

      • I can’t imagine guidos taking a liking of our Lion.


        September 27, 2014 at 11:26 AM

      • Please elaborate.

        Joe Walker

        September 27, 2014 at 2:15 PM

      • Had to WHAT with them? do tell!


        September 27, 2014 at 4:57 PM

      • live? sleep? drive?

        All of the above?


        September 27, 2014 at 7:37 PM

      • Usually strong feelings are about money or sex. Money does not fit here. Prole girls would not sleep with him?


        September 28, 2014 at 1:46 AM

      • I find it fascinating that Lion made a statement about the majority of Jews are anti-HBD. It could be your Staten Island roots. Had you grew up in Manhattan, your view would have been different for an educated Jewish person.


        October 1, 2014 at 11:59 AM

      • What statement? I would state that the majority of EVERYONE is anti-HBD. Only a tiny number of people on the internet believe in HBD.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 1, 2014 at 6:00 PM

      • Guidos and anyone on the alt-right would be pro-HBD. If not, they dislike certain minority groups very much. Asians are very much into HBD, despite being subjects of discussion on HBD topics.


        October 1, 2014 at 6:40 PM

      • When even the liberal NY Times legitimizes HBD, it might be more believed than you think:


        October 1, 2014 at 7:59 PM

  16. High school friend wanted to go to and was admitted to state school in another state – deferred admission for a year, moved to the state, worked for a year, and then enrolled with in-state tuition rate. Not sure if this still works any more, any where? Obviously doesn’t help for private colleges.


    September 27, 2014 at 5:07 AM

    • This works for medical school. Texas has the most schools in the country, and lots of dumb people.

      Compared to California or New England with lots of elite schools and students, Texas is very easy to gain an acceptance to med school.

      So what Californians and New Englanders do is move to texas for a year after college and then apply as a texas resident, gain an easy(comparatively) acceptance, and pay in state tuition.


      September 28, 2014 at 12:14 PM

    • I did this for my postgrad degree in a foreign country. $5500 per year for the equivalent of HYP. And you don’t even have to do all your classwork and papers in the local language; plenty of the reading is in English just because English happens to be the global lingua franca these days.


      September 28, 2014 at 7:45 PM

  17. Great selection as always, Lion. Article looks to me like bad choices that could have been avoided by an afternoon or two reading up at the local library/GOOGLE. First lesson of proledom: Read. Ignorance costs.

    What’s the answer? Look at your kid’s IQ ( or SAT V +M stand-in). Have him apply to the most prestigious ( and preferably local) colleges admitting at the 75% percentile average 10-20 points (to 100-200 SAT) under that. Quite a few will then basically actually pay him to go if you’re middle income or less, problem solved. The smart don’t pay to play. That’s assuming your GPA, EC’s etc. are good.

    Send him to a college whose average is at or over his IQ/SAT, your little darling pays.

    Many colleges all but tell you by having an Honors Program with a free ride for those high-scorers. About 100-200 SAT points over the minimum to be admitted is the sweet spot in most places from what I see. Yes, there’s one at FD: and elsewhere many scholarships for high SAT/GPA. No, no mention in the article the kid qualified.


    September 27, 2014 at 8:40 AM

  18. If there’s any hope, it lies in the proles.


    September 27, 2014 at 8:45 AM

    • Animals and proles are free eh?

      Miss Minnie

      September 28, 2014 at 11:30 AM

    • Prolebi-wan Kenobi, you are our only hope!


      September 29, 2014 at 2:50 AM

  19. I have a friend who used to work in the admissions office of a well-known elite college. She said the colleges will all deny it, but your chances of admission are greatly improved if you state on your application that you do not require financial. This means that your parents are sufficiently affluent to foot annual college expenses in the $60,000 range without a problem. The colleges know that these are the folks who endow professorships and make other major donations.

    Black Death

    September 27, 2014 at 9:37 AM

    • Pretty much every single elite school is need-blind these days.


      September 29, 2014 at 7:55 PM

      • they say they are. not true.

        Miss Minnie

        October 2, 2014 at 11:38 PM

  20. Probably not beta male rage…

    USA Today, 09/27/14 – Police: Fired worker beheaded Oklahoma woman

    An employee who had just been fired from an Oklahoma food processing plant beheaded a woman with a knife and was attacking another worker when he was shot and wounded by a company official, police report…

    Includes a pic of the perpetrator. Yep.

    E. Rekshun

    September 27, 2014 at 3:31 PM

  21. I grew up in a prole town in Oklahoma, I live now in a blue state, and I still go back frequently to visit family and see old friends. The rural proles of Oklahoma have good things going for them. They are free from many of the problems that are complained about here. There’s no political correctness, if you don’t like homosexuality, or interracial marriage, or feminism you can come out and say it, with no fear of losing your job or not getting invited to parties. There were only a few White liberals who knew better than to launch into a tyraid about White privilege or “the patriarchy”, and no morally superior status-whoring SWPLs. Gays stay in the closet. They do have to deal with NAMs, in this case Black people, but with none of the heartache of affirmative action co-workers or concern about “offending” them, and they won’t try to play the oppressed Black man card, because they know they’d get laughed at. Despite the large population in my hometown interracial mixing was almost nonexistent.(My hometown also had Native Americans, but no one had a problem with them because they didn’t cause us any problems)

    The people are nicer, more respectful, and more accepting of differences. Especially the young people, when I went to college in a blue state I was shocked at how meaner the students were than the kids I had known from Oklahoma. Gender relations are much less roissyian, the girls much less promiscuous, and the girls who were promiscuous didn’t advertize it as a morally superior lifestyle. The feeling of common community much greater, I compare this to the widespread sense of alienation I saw among the blue-state college kids.

    The main disadvantage is that being proles they have to work oftentimes crappy jobs, none of the cushy work that many of us engage in. But the cost of living is lower, so that they can still afford to own their own homes at working class wages. Since they work value creation-type jobs, they also don’t have to deal with so much “office politics” the way most of us do. There are other problems, obesity is a big problem and the influence of poisonous “Hollywood values” has been steadily increasing.

    John A

    September 27, 2014 at 5:42 PM

    • Sounds like the kind of place that the Federal government and liberal Christian church-related non-profit organizations would love to integrate with African refugees.

      E. Rekshun

      September 28, 2014 at 5:54 AM

    • I read somewhere “Liberals hate humans, love humanity, Conservatives love humans, hate humanity”

      For a real life example, liberals love to donate to charity (with other people’s money via taxation) whereas conservatives love to donate with their own money.


      September 28, 2014 at 12:18 PM

  22. I can’t believe that anyone still buys the Myth of Education. Over half of high school graduates are functionally illiterate. Going to college and incurring debt is really stupid when you realize that half the students are minorities taking remedial classes that include things I did in elementary school. If you do graduate with a degree there are no high paying jobs for college graduates. Most of the jobs in this country are filled with illiterate Mexicans that can’t even read or write Spanish. The high-tech jobs all go to H1-B Visa people from the Indian Subcontinent that are willing to work for less. Americans with advanced degrees can’t find jobs most of the time, and when they do its low paying crap like retail and waitressing that require no education at all. America is the first country that I ever saw where the elites in Finance and Government purposely destroyed the tax base. Due to the false Libertarian narrative of the benefits of Free Trade, and illegal aliens only taking jobs that Americans won’t do, this country no longer has any tax base at all. The Federal Government is so broke, The Federal Reserve has to print and issue over a Trillion new US Dollars every year to buy Federal Treasury Bonds and Notes nobody else will touch simply to allow the Federal Government to pay its bills. Whenever a Government has to start printing money to pay its bills, its the beginning of the End. At this point, its not a question of if the system will collapse but simply when. People in the know, say its like seeing people re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic at this point. Did you hear that Billionaires have started to build moats around their estates? This is in addition to armies of armed guards and walled gates. You can say its prole, or even paranoid, but if I were you I would start buying guns and ammo and stockpiling food if you don’t intend to flee the country. After seeing Hurricane Katrina and the Rodney King Riots, I really don’t believe the Government can handle System Collapse. Who’s the next person on deck to become President? Hillary Clinton? Do you believe someone like this will cut spending or close the border to try to stop the collapse? I don’t…

    Joshua Sinistar

    September 27, 2014 at 10:51 PM

    • The sacralizing of teaching (and other prole professions like military, police, etc.) is simply because there are tons of people with these easy jobs that make lots of money (including pensions etc.) who understand that they need good PR and to crush any opposition (“What you don’t value teachers! We need educated citizens for our FUTURE! Think of the CHILDREN!”) whether or not they are supported by facts or not. It’s rent seeking, and sucking the economy dry. The reality is that classrooms work just fine with 150 students per teacher (see college), you don’t need many police if most people are armed, there aren’t house fires anymore so firefighters are almost useless, and the only branches of the military we actually need is the air force and the navy (but only for subs…ships are a costly anachronism).

      But so many people are employed in these useless jobs that if we ended them we would *need* a basic income, because what is a big mean white prole going to do if he can’t be a cop?


      September 28, 2014 at 12:24 PM

    • Americans are generally idiots especially when it comes to STEM, and that includes the SWPL population. Less than 40 percent of Americans believe in evolution, especially the evolution of humans. They don’t understand that man made climate change is real and vaccination doesn’t cause Autistic tendencies. Furthermore, SWPLs believe GMO food kills and that’s why they spend all their money on organic food, which is a complete scam.


      September 28, 2014 at 9:45 PM

  23. OT: Racist, underprivileged female Person-of-Color (based on the picture, that color looks white to me) who was accepted at NYU and got a job at the NYT reveals that NYT editors believe in HBD!

    Also, refers to the NYT building as looking like a “cathedral” and wants unlimited immigration.


    September 28, 2014 at 6:37 PM

    • Liberals are probably feeling the pain that all these years propping up blacks have been a failure and a waste of time. It takes a Hispanic woman to tell this story. And by the way, I never got the sense that liberals were really pro-Hispanic and other commentators here should agree. Hispanics are generally conservative.


      September 29, 2014 at 11:34 PM

    • lmao she looks about as white as Zimmerman

      Miss Minnie

      October 1, 2014 at 1:30 AM

  24. lion, completely off topic, but can you write about this? i know it’s not your main topic to write about social injustices faced by asian men, but kind of, right? this story touches on issues of race, game, hollywood stereotypes, and it doesn’t blame white chicks for this problem. anyway, here’s the post to the story and my take on the issue. thanks man.


    September 28, 2014 at 6:41 PM

    • Asian men are deemed the least physically attractive men by most women from a global perspective. Roosh V did come up with a list of men from the most desirable to least desirable called the Totem Pole of Race Attractiveness. Southern Euro Men are no doubt more physically attractive than Northern Euros and American White Men as a general rule. Asian men rank all the way at the bottom and this independent of any “alpha” vs “beta” qualities.


      September 29, 2014 at 10:08 AM

      • Then one should have no issues with importing asians into USA. They study hard but not in fields so as to inconvenience the elites, stay off the dole, don’t ever take the streets to protest against any real or perceived injustices like your average NAM, can’t steal your women.

        They should be the ONLY immigrant demographic allowed in the USA.


        September 30, 2014 at 4:59 PM

      • Asians are also good propaganda for HBD.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 30, 2014 at 6:09 PM

      • The elites are already importing many Asians into our universities and they probably know that they aren’t threat to them. I won’t be surprised if some of them realize Asians make great candidates for value transferors via STEM fields. Further, I get a sense that the elites are tired of the NAM game because it comes to a point where repeated failures leads to abandonment.


        September 30, 2014 at 7:20 PM

      • Lion did say one time – that it sucks to be an Asian guy in America for those who want to join the SWPL crowd.


        September 30, 2014 at 7:26 PM

    • And Rivelino – I would assume Spanish girls in Madrid would shun Asian men more than American White women, given the fact that Spain doesn’t have a multi-cult Hollywood to brainwash its citizens and Southern Euro men are generally well received by women.


      September 29, 2014 at 10:15 AM

      • are asian men objectively less attractive than other men, or is it a cultural thing?


        September 29, 2014 at 3:59 PM

      • With the pervasive western media throughout the world, it would be both an objective measure and a cultural thing that Asian men are less attractive compared to White and NAM men.


        September 29, 2014 at 5:12 PM

      • You’re a Manosphere guy and in the Manosphere, some guys are delusional to believe that race and attractiveness doesn’t effect one’s game with women.


        September 29, 2014 at 5:16 PM

      • They sure do like half-Asian Enrique Iglesias in Madrid

        Miss Minnie

        September 29, 2014 at 8:30 PM

      • Iglesias doesn’t even look remotely Asian.


        September 30, 2014 at 9:55 AM

      • Filipinos are the least asian of the asians.


        September 30, 2014 at 9:42 PM

    • In real life John Cho married a woman named Kerri Higuchi, who appears to be of Japanese descent. Guess roundeye girls didn’t like him after all.

      toos is god

      September 29, 2014 at 1:16 PM

  25. […] wrote two good comments on lion’s blog, where i commented a similar […]

    • I don’t think you will have any problems gaming Female Spaniards. I’m just surprised as to why the Manosphere has infiltrated into Spain. Meeting women in Spain is quite effortless because they will make the move on you if they like you. And the Spanish are quite social and you’ll have interesting things to chat about, unlike here the states where you either encounter crass individuals or overly cheery people from a Hollywood comedy show.

      I have gotten numbers here in NYC from female tourists from Spain who asked me directions and wanted to chat. No American woman have ever asked me anything on the street except those coming from a moronic organization with their stupid agendas.


      September 29, 2014 at 6:48 PM

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