Lion of the Blogosphere

Gentrification in north-central Harlem?

harlem map

The NY Times Census Map shows that the area between Frederick Douglas Boulevard and Bradhurst Avenue (bordering Jackie Robinson Park) is undergoing significant gentrification. So maybe the kid in the article I blogged about yesterday (who bought an apartment at the northern end of that Census tract) is making a wise investment after all.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

February 27, 2015 at EDT am

Posted in New York City

30 Responses

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  1. Note the explosive growth of white and Asian population since 2000.

    Viewed from Flyover, always seemed strange that a sizable fraction of Manhattan real estate up there in Harlem was an unofficial no-go zone.

    Ava Lon

    February 27, 2015 at EDT am

  2. Bring down the black population significantly and get rid of the East Asian immigrant types, and the neighborhood would be a good one. Let the Hispanics associate with the White gentrifiers.

    JS

    February 27, 2015 at EDT am

  3. Sailer talks about this. Manhattan real estate is insanely valuable, and eventually even the most violent blacks will be moved out.

    thrasymachus33308

    February 27, 2015 at EDT am

  4. Most whites who care about gentrification have one mantra – gentrification good, blacks bad.

    While blacks are indeed bad, the truth is those who are cheering for the gentrifiers will never get to live in the area cleansed by the gentrifiers.

    I hope the blacks win, since their replacements are even worse.

    toos is god

    February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

    • “since their replacements are even worse.” ——————- Hyperbole? Sure, they will be replaced with hipsters who can wear annoying clothes. But, crime will go down and so will the need to increase taxes to pay for police and other income transfer services. Win-win anyway you look at it as long as the gentrification causes the high-crime populations/communities to move out of your jurisdiction entirely.

      Curles

      February 28, 2015 at EDT pm

  5. The core of Harlem is especially well served by the subway and it’s easy to get downtown to your white and Asian person job. This alone will ensure gentrification. The biggest problem are the housing projects because its a lot harder to gentrify there and drive people out. This will slow down the gentrification process. But I’m guessing that most non-project housing in Harlem will flip to non-ghetto residents within the next few years. The demand is just too great. Manhattan is, after all, an island, and they ain’t making any more of it.

    No doubt, this will give the ghetto bangers more targets to hit, but so it goes. Nobody said gentrification would be easy.

    peterike

    February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

  6. Yes. Harlem is way too accessible by subway to remain in its current ghetto state. You can’t make money by buying in the border zone of ghetto. “Everyone” knows those areas will be gentrified and property prices reflect that already. One must venture deeper into the ghetto but near a convenient subway stop, where the trailblazers if gentrification are moving in.

    AsianDude

    February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

  7. The Times really ought to enable comments on its Real Estate articles.

    Lion of the Turambar

    February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

  8. Does anyone know much about the upper Gerritsen beach/Marine park area in Brooklyn? The area near Gerritsen Avenue and Ave U? There are many apartment buildings in that area. But I’m concerned about whether those apartments are likely to go up in value or down in value in the years to come. While there is no subway right nearby, the Ave U bus is only a 22 short-block ride to the subway on E. 16 St, so the commute would be bearable as long as you didn’t live more than a block or two from Avenue U.

    Maryk

    February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

    • My grandparents used to live not so far from there, between Nostrand Avenue and Knapp Street. I think the area is very prole, where successful plumbers or well-paid government workers like police officers live. The commute to Manhattan is horrendous because it is not near a subway, and when you finally go get to the subway it’s an hour subway ride to midtown.

      I recommend Forest Hills as the best place in the outer boroughs to live if you are looking for safety, affordability, and a fast commute, but don’t care about hipness.

      “In searching for a home, he had ruled out neighborhoods like Forest Hills, Queens — “a grandma place,” as he described it.”

      Grandmothers make for very good neighbors, they are quiet and respectful, never cause any crime, especially when they are Jewish grandmothers.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Or Astoria, which is better than Forest Hills in terms of amenities.

        JS

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Forest Hills has less diversity.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Yes, but less access to good food, especially Greek and French food. You don’t find many blacks in Astoria.

        JS

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Yes, I’m sure Forest Hills is an easier commute to Manhattan. But I’m sure it’s also a lot more expensive. You can find a two bedroom apartment in Marine Park/Gerritsen Beach for 160K or less. The same apartment in any safe area of Brooklyn close to a subway is about 300K. I’m a Brooklyn girl at heart. Astoria is nice, but it’s already too expensive. And it looks as if Astoria will be hipster heaven in a few years. I’d give anything to have Brooklyn the way it was in the 70s and 80s.

        Maryk

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Forest Hills is the best bargain in NYC. Gerritsen Beach… you may as well be living in Staten Island, that’s how hard it is to get to Manhattan from there.

        And there’s always the chance that Forest Hills could hipsterfy and see good price appreciations in real estate. Belt-Parkway Brooklyn is likely to see the opposite happen.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • It’s nice to see that Astoria hasn’t caught the Hipster disease. Much of the White demographic in Astoria are the ethnic types from the Balkans and non-Hipster yuppies. Hipsters and blacks, are by far the 2 most obnoxious groups in NYC. One can make a point about guidos, but they usually are non-descript, when they are among a crowd of non-guidos.

        JS

        February 28, 2015 at EDT am

    • Southern Brooklyn will always be a “no mans land” to the SWPL gentrifiers, who see it as a low status prole area beneath them, similar to Staten Island.

      JS

      February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • I like to call that area “Belt Parkway Brooklyn”

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Or you can call it “Boring Prole Brooklyn”.

        JS

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Well, that’s how they see it now. But in a few years things may change. Gentrifiers need a neighborhood that’s relatively safe as well as not too far from a subway. There is only so much real estate that is right near a subway. When those areas have all been gentrified will we see hipsters brave it out in NAM neighborhoods just to have good subway access, or just go a bit further away from the subway areas trading convenience for safety? My guess is that it’s the latter. Remember, Lion, that I’m talking not about the actual Gerritsen Beach neighborhood right near the water – the area with the little bungalow houses that are still reasonably priced. I’m referring to the smaller area not far from Avenue U. If hipsters moved there they’d still be within New York City limits so they could say they live in NYC. They wouldn’t have to own a car. Their neighbors would be white. And they’d still be able to access Manhattan better than suburbanites – who would have to drive in and deal with parking hassles, or be limited to commuter trains that dont’ run as often as NYC buses and subways A new breed might be born: “hipster-lite.” They would get along well with the high proles who inhabit the area now.

        Maryk

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • They could do that in Forest Hills with a much faster commute.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • First off, your neighbors on avenue will not be all that white. Avenue U is mini Chinatown. Plenty of young Mexican families, too. Not to mention middle eastern families buying property and living 14 to a house, maybe more because you seldom see the women. Second, the whites tend to be Eastern European and don’t think much of some of the prevailing SWPL attitudes. They don’t think gay=cool, or black=cool. They are into status, cars, jewelry.
        Seems like all the hipsters are getting off at the stops around prospect park.

        Brooklyn Outpost

        February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

      • High proles don’t live in deep south Brooklyn in large numbers. The main demographics are working class/holdover Italian/Jewish farts, Chinese immigrants, and now an increasing number of South Asians, especially Muslims.

        JS

        February 28, 2015 at EDT am

    • “I’d give anything to have Brooklyn the way it was in the 70s and 80s.” ————————–

      I’d give anything to have America the way it was in the 70s and 80s.

      Curles

      February 28, 2015 at EDT pm

  9. I’m aware of the Chinese presence on Avenue U. I have no problem with this. If an area I live in turns into hipsterville over time that’s OK even though I’d prefer it to stay white prole. Whoever I leave my property to can sell it for at least what I paid for it. My concern is if I buy an apartment on say, Gerritsen Ave and Ave V, is it likely to go up in value in 10 to 20 years or down in value?

    Maryk

    February 27, 2015 at EDT pm

    • I think you and Lion should leave NYC, especially to a place west of the Hudson. It’s good for the soul, when parochial Italian and Jewish White ethnics leave the Big Apple-Tristate Area and get to see the world at large.

      JS

      February 28, 2015 at EDT am

  10. As far back as the 60s I admired the beautiful brownstones on Convent Ave (“Strivers Row”) on way to and from classes at CCNY from the 145th St. D train stop. There were even a few intrepid fraternities that had houses along there. Back then it would have been a far-fetched dream to live in a place like that for safety reasons (or even at the tip of Lower Manhattan, which was then a complete ghost town after dark). I guess it’s still a pipe dream today–but this time because of affordability.

    sestamibi

    February 28, 2015 at EDT pm


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