Lion of the Blogosphere

Why would Lubitz have need an Olanzapine injection?

I found this on the internet:

The unpleasant adverse effects of antipsychotic drugs combined with patients’ disbelief of having an illness, which is common among individuals with schizophrenia, result in high rates of non-adherence to antipsychotics in the treatment of schizophrenia.

Long-acting injectable (LAI) antipsychotics are a pharmacologic strategy for treating patients with schizophrenia who relapse due to non-adherence to antipsychotic medication. Rather than the daily pill-taking required with oral antipsychotics, LAI antipsychotics are administered by injection at two to four week intervals.

Olanzapine is one of the 6 LAIs available.

* * *

Also, I found this new story in a French newspaper (sorry for the bad Google translation):

The revelations continued to multiply on Andreas Lubitz, head of crash of the A320 Germanwings Tuesday. Many newspapers including desired to know more about the treatment that followed the copilot. According to Le Parisien this morning and several German newspapers, Andreas Lubitz was prescribed for an atypical antipsychotic olanzapine (Zyprexa) and an antidepressant agomelatine (Valdoxan). Today, psychiatrists find that undoubtedly such treatment is totally incompatible with the piloting of an aircraft (both drugs are also the subject of a cons-indication regarding driving). Furthermore, the prescription of olanzapine (which is indicated in the treatment of schizophrenia, manic episodes of some and sometimes preventing recurrences of mania) confirmed that the diagnosis made by prescribers was not that simple depression like the press let him hear the end of the week.

French newspapers obviously have better investigative journalism than English-language papers.

First time I’ve seen the word “schizophrenia,” used in a news article about Lubitz.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

34 Responses

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  1. I think you’re on to something here. Why would he need an injectable when he could just take the pill?

    If it came out that he never disclosed to his employer that he is a schizophrenic, man are patient-privacy laws for pilots going to change.

    DdR

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

    • Why would he need an injectable when he could just take the pill?

      Some people prefer an injectable every few weeks vs. having to take a pill every day.

      man are patient-privacy laws for pilots going to change.

      Many jurisdictions already have mandatory physician reporting for unsafe drivers/flyers. To me the real story here is going to be whether or not some doc or bureaucrat will wear it for failing to report.

      Samson J.

      March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Someone with a knowledge of German employment law relating to any “rights” it extends to persons under treatment for mental disorders might very well be able to shed light on why a known schizophrenic was allowed to pilot jetliners.

        Jonathan Silber

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • I work for a German company and used to work in Germany. I can tell you that German unions are much more strict about privacy than in the States. For instance, no German colleagues were allowed to be given expensive Cisco video phones because the video conferencing would invade their privacy.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if no law specifically existed to force doctors to divulge serious medical conditions about commercial pilots. I also wouldn’t be surprised that the Lufthansa union forbids the company from trying to seek medical knowledge about its pilots.

        DdR

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • I can tell you that German unions are much more strict about privacy than in the States.

        Interesting, thanks. Always fascinating to see how/why they do it differently somewhere else.

        Samson J.

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • I can tell you that German unions are much more strict about privacy than in the States.

        Most of Western Europe feels similarly. Google has lost privacy cases in EU courts while the trashiest French tabloids shrug at the marital affairs of politicians. In many ways Europe’s privacy protections are on the right track even though their mental health screening laws for pilots should now be rethought.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  2. Long-acting injectables aren’t just for patients with a history of non-adherence. They are often strongly encouraged regardless, just to minimize possible future non-adherence.

    Hermes

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  3. A schizo? http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/officials-respond-to-incident-at-nsa-on-fort-meade-campus/2015/03/30/08bdfe56-d6e1-11e4-ba28-f2a685dc7f89_story.html.

    Speaking of recent shootings: Hong Young, 35, a former prison guard, was a suspect in shootings at nine locations. No one was seriously injured in any of the incidents, which also occurred outside stores and along an interstate in Maryland. He told investigators that he was “hearing voices” that told him to fire the shots.

    Curle

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

    • Either he has schizophrenia, or he’s pretending to have schizophrenia in order to avoid harsher punishment.

      If he has a medical history of psychiatric treatment, then I believe him about the voices.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  4. I’m sold. I think the Lion is right. He was a schizo.

    Shabba_Ranks

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  5. Surely the rational thing would be for you to mention your schizophrenia theory once and then not talk about his mental state anymore until there’s definitive evidence one way or the other. By talking about it so much you’re just showing how weak your evidence is and ensuring that, if you’re proven wrong by subsequent events, you’ll look that much more foolish.

    Lloyd Llewellyn

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

    • Rationally, I shouldn’t have a blog at all because it’s a waste of time.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Would you consider your blogging, which is outstanding, to be a waste of time if you were convinced it afforded instruction to others in matters of importance, as well as considerable pleasure?

        Jonathan Silber

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • I guess you have a point.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • …would have needed

        Robert Gabriel Mugabe

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • Blogging gives you purpose in the absence of children. Having the purpose reduces chances of suicide. So, keep up.

        MyTwoCents

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterward. These are games; one must first answer. —Camus

        paraphrase:

        what would i do if i had no worries? i’d do heroin. —Artie Lange

        Camus should’ve quit smoking and started drinking.

        Robert Gabriel Mugabe

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • I enjoyed L’Étranger.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • inmho the opening line The Stranger is only surpassed by that of Scaramouche:

        He was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad.

        Robert Gabriel Mugabe

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  6. The Masters of the Universe at Google are content that software of theirs continues to produce such laughably bad translations into English?

    Jonathan Silber

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  7. Since LOTB has posted at least eight different posts about crash of Germanwing Flight 9525, I am worried that there are voices telling him to keep posting about a subject that has already been driven into the ground.

    superdestroyer

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  8. but it’s used for other things and as yet there is NO evidence that he was ever psychotic.

    when i went to the ER with severe gastritis (i couldn’t even drink water without vomiting) i was given an anti-nausea pill.

    it turns out this pill was originally an “anti-psychotic” ;).

    btw, there was no prescription iirc. it was just a one-off for nausea.

    Robert Gabriel Mugabe

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

    • So you think he was given an Olanzapine injection because he had an upset stomach?

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • i don’t think anything. but as far as i’ve heard he simply never had any of the defining symptoms of SCZ, and olanzapine is used for things other than psychosis.

        michael jackson died from an overdose of a general anesthetic iirc, prescribed by his incompetent doctor to help him sleep.

        it would be unlikely to be used if he weren’t psychotic, at least in the US from what i’ve read, but there’s simply no evidence that his “problems” included psychosis.

        Robert Gabriel Mugabe

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • There is no evidence that he actually had any olanzapine. You are referring to tabloid publications. This subtracts value from what you are doing, unless I misunderstand what you are doing.

        MyTwoCents

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • The specificity of the alleged fact makes it more likely to be true.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

      • You were probably given Compazine (prochlorperazine.) It’s an old antipsychotic that is hardly used as an antipsychotic anymore, but is still used as an antiemetic. Olanzapine is not used as an antiemetic. It’s used for schizophrenia, mania, and sometimes psychotic features in major depression.

        Hermes

        March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  9. David Hume said “the wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.” Rather than rely on daily news reports of varying quality, why not just wait for the full investigation? What difference does it make if it’s depression or schizophrenia or something else? Latching onto each and every tangential comment that supports your initial hunch makes this a case-study in confirmation bias.

    Vince

    March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

    • He’s having fun. Even I can see that.

      Samson J.

      March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

    • Speculation of the sort undertaken here by the Lion and his commenters is a necessary and important element of any investigation, most especially when facts are few.

      Jonathan Silber

      March 30, 2015 at EDT pm

  10. details of the investigation are probably not available to the public. so , we can only guess and speculate.
    i too believe he was a schizophrenic . as an employer , you may trust a depressive person if that person was successfully treated and managed the symptoms. totally different situation if the person is a schizophrenic. that is is not curable and if you let him fly a plane , you are in deep doo-doo . so , i presume lufthansa is happy with the depression diagnosis.
    just my opinion. you know , everybody has an opinion and an…

    anette

    March 31, 2015 at EDT am

  11. Lion once said that Flight MH370 has landed somewhere. Where’s the evidence for that. It seemed like plausible speculation though.

    Latias

    March 31, 2015 at EDT pm

    • I said there was no psychological reason for flying the plane off into the middle of nowhere, so the plane landing somewhere makes more sense, given that the technique used to estimate the planes southern route from satellite pings sounds pretty sketchy to me, and no plane parts were found there.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 31, 2015 at EDT pm

      • sketchy’s not the mot jus lion.

        it’s rather that believing th claim depends on trusting “experts”. and experts are very often not trustworthy.

        the NOVA on the flight concluded the pilot had done it. it may just be the way that pilots go postal.

        Robert Gabriel Mugabe

        March 31, 2015 at EDT pm


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