Lion of the Blogosphere

Stupid Republicans and Planned Parenthood

The latest stupid thing that Republicans are trying to do is to defund Planned Parenthood, and they are going to try to do it by threatening to shut down the government if they don’t get their way.

Planned Parenthood has been receiving government funding for a very long time, and I can’t think of a better use for government funds than preventing poor women from having children. Planned Parenthood is pretty much the only eugenic thing the government is doing. By reducing births of poor women, we are saving huge amounts of money. When poor women give birth, they get free hospital care and then the government pays for welfare, education, law enforcement to police their bad behavior, and then the children become adults dependent on more government welfare. Planned Parenthood is doing something to help break the cycle of welfare dependency. The Donohue and Levitt study showed that there is a correlation between legalized abortion and reduced crime. More poor children means more crime.

Why can’t Republicans do something useful, such as doing something about illegal immigration? No wonder why Trump is leading in the polls.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

July 31, 2015 at 2:47 PM

Posted in Politics

194 Responses

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  1. Not to mention that if abortion is legal anyway, isn’t it better to use the medical tissue for research than to just throw it away? Is simply destroying the fetus better for some reason?

    Stupid, stupid Republicans.

    This is the ultimate “cuckservative” issue. You’ve got babies who are not even wanted by their own parents, but white Christians are desperate to save them.

    Hepp

    July 31, 2015 at 2:54 PM

    • Being a medical tissue incubator is a valid career, you misogynist shitlords.

      Glengarry

      August 1, 2015 at 3:23 AM

  2. I partially agree, in that it’s a shame that contemporary conservatives have tunnel vision when it comes to abortion. As Lawrence Auster said in the wake of the Sarah Palin nomination and the resultant conservatives’ waxing ecstatic over single motherhood, they have reduced all goods to the good of avoiding abortion.

    However, rather than having the federal government fund a private organization with taxpayer money to provide contraception and abortions to poor women (poor women have trouble using contraceptives correctly anyway because of their poor impulse control and high time preference,) it would be better if the government would simply stop paying poor women to have bastard babies.

    Hermes

    July 31, 2015 at 3:01 PM

    • “it would be better if the government would simply stop paying poor women to have bastard babies.”

      That’s half the problem. But as you just said, they’re going to get pregnant anyway–regardless of whether a baby is in their best interests.

      anon

      August 1, 2015 at 6:18 AM

    • it would be better if the government would simply stop paying poor women to have bastard babies.

      And just let women and their children starve and live on the streets? That’s it’s own extremism.

      Lloyd Llewellyn

      August 1, 2015 at 7:12 AM

      • It’s a simple problem to solve. Institute a basic income and cancel all welfare incentives for additional children; grandfather in all the welfare moms on the previous system until their children reach majority age.

        But nobody wants to solve the problem. This government – and particularly the GOP and their deluded constituency – doesn’t work that way.

        Viscount Douchenozzlé

        August 1, 2015 at 11:34 AM

      • If you don’t give money to people based on their number of children then children are going to be living in poverty. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that people are behaving rationally and only having children because of the expectation of welfare payments.

        Lloyd Llewellyn

        August 2, 2015 at 4:07 AM

      • Starving is the natural order of things for people who make poor decisions. A little bit of starving would go along way to end our bastard epidemic. Perhaps some poor women would get married to the nerdy nice guy beta provider she currently detests instead of getting knocked up by the bad boy she lusts after. Without welfare, following her primitive desires would lead to well deserved hunger. You might think I’m mean but children would be MUCH better off being raised by two parents (including a good stable father) than a single mom and a welfare check (or ebt card).

        Jay Fink

        August 2, 2015 at 2:29 PM

      • Before abortion, infanticide used to by common amongst the poor.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 5:10 PM

    • the government doesn’t provide enough additional income to incentivize having additional children based on that.

      it may be good for the poor to abort their babies to avoid exposing them to this society. and that good may, actually probably, has little to do with their genes.

      swank

      August 1, 2015 at 3:27 PM

  3. great quote, lion.

    rivelino

    July 31, 2015 at 3:16 PM

  4. I wouldn’t even mind them defunding Planned Parenthood if they actually had a plan to pull it off. However history has shown they don’t and will end up coming out weaker from the whole process after Obama and the Congressional Dems force them to say uncle. Obama can hold out far longer than the Republicans can since the entire media narrative will be that the Republicans shut down government and those Social Security checks may have to stop…

    They are known as the stupid party for good reason, but I’m sure Hannity will egg them on. At this point, I guess it doesn’t matter though. It’s not like Republicans were going to win in 2016 anyway.

    Mike Street Station

    July 31, 2015 at 3:16 PM

  5. The Donohue and Levitt study showed that there is a correlation between legalized abortion and reduced crime

    what’s funny is that Levitt’s claim wasn’t even a new claim. and Levitt and Donohue have been debunked on this claim:
    “Foote and Goetz, however, soon produced a rebuttal of their own and showed that even after analyzing the data using the methods that Levitt and Donohue recommend, the data does not show a positive correlation between abortion rates and crime rates. [9] They are quick to point out that this does not necessarily disprove Levitt’s thesis, however, and emphasize that with data this messy and incomplete, it is in all likelihood not even possible to prove or disprove Donohue and Levitt’s conclusion.”

    but yes! the pattern is clear
    legalize abortion because genes, gays must get married because genes, income inequality and john galt because genes. so great to be living in the modern age of capitalism, where silly religious notions like ‘divine blood’ have gone out of style…

    Why can’t Republicans do something useful, such as doing something about illegal immigration?

    because the people who fund them aren’t about to restrict capital and their stupid base won’t allow them to take any other position, thanks to their reliance on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

    Sanders is the right direction; it doesn’t seem like he likes immigrants that much, but he also has his priorities in order.

    swank

    July 31, 2015 at 3:44 PM

  6. Planned Parenthood is the only group doing anything positive in the US. Given that most abortions are by black women, PP has helped reduce the amount of criminals, welfare bums and affirmative action takers. Life in the US would be much worse without this group.

    Given all the African refugees and Third World immigrants colonizing the US, perhaps it is only delaying the inevitable. But outlaw abortion and blacks will make up a much greater percentage of the US in a very short time.

    Bernie

    July 31, 2015 at 4:06 PM

  7. Very conservative Republicans tend to be ideological purists just liberal Democrats are on the other end of the spectrum. They are not looking for pragmatic solutions, they are only interested in standing on principle because those Republicans truly feel that abortion is morally reprehensible. After having a child of my own I agree with them.

    As much as I want to be pro-choice for the reasons you have stated I just can’t do it. Religion aside, just looking at it philosophically I can’t see any way to justify the taking of an unborn human life. It is the most unnatural thing a woman can do and inflicts years of psychological trauma and regret on many them for that very reason. Most people deep down instinctively know that it is wrong but have rationalized it away with the usual “people are going to do it anyway” argument, which is the weakest of arguments. Republicans who are against Planned Parenthood typically also want to remove the social safety nets that incentivize poor women to have kids they can’t afford. They also want a return to traditional moral values. If those two goals were accomplished they would more than offset the economic benefits of abortion on demand.

    B.T.D.T.

    July 31, 2015 at 4:23 PM

    • Through most of history women tried to abort babies, have had miscarriages, abandoned unwanted infants, etc. It is only modern sentimentality that makes people claim abortion is “unnatural.” Not a decision to be taken lightly, to be sure, but our civilization, even with abortion, is far more sentimental about infants than our ancestors were.

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 1, 2015 at 12:59 PM

      • They weren’t this sentimental as recently as the 50s. Everyone had kids, lots of them. Sophisticates acted as if it were a big bore. They came home from work, poured a cocktail and told the kids to go out and play on the freeway.

        My parent told me she had kids because everyone else did, so it was normal, and if you didn’t have kids you were “peculiar.” Much later I read her old letters and found out my father had wanted all 3 of us aborted, but she fought him tooth and nail, back in the 1940s.

        By 1960 it felt like there was this great reconsideration of marriage and child rearing going on. I know only because I precociously read my mother’s women’s magazines and whatever else I could get hold of. It was no wonder I never had kids, in such a negative atmosphere as that.

        Mrs Stitch

        August 2, 2015 at 6:18 PM

    • Abortion is wrong. However, the Left operates solely within the much politically stronger Politics of Race and, at a distant second, sexual identity politics. The Politics of Ideas is inherently impotent in comparison and will always lose to the politics of race and identity. If you try to fight an identity war with ideas, you will lose 100% of the time. The Republicans are still fighting a War of ideas, and thus they are losing and will ultimately lose. If ideas are important to Republicans, then they need to first win the Identity War that they are not currently competing in. Only once sociopolitical identity is solidified and protected can a party fight for and implement a War of ideas to include any morality. As long as the identity wars are raging, and they are losing, they will not win anything else. Politics is cooperation. Cooperation is strongest at the family level, and thus all other forms of cooperative relationship lose politically over time. That is the first rule of politics.

      Jon

      August 4, 2015 at 11:54 AM

  8. The government could accomplish the same objective by giving poor women implantable long-term birth control.

    Most people would be fine with that because then you wouldn’t have the specter of having to see aborted babies because they wouldn’t be conceived in the first place.

    I’m pretty sure the disgust most people feel seeing these babies being sliced and diced has a positive evolutionary purpose. I don’t think it’s all just superstitious religion.

    BS Inc.

    July 31, 2015 at 4:50 PM

    • People are disgusted by all sorts of medical procedures for good evolutionary reasons

      Lloyd Llewellyn

      August 1, 2015 at 7:15 AM

    • Evangelicals and devout Catholics are against birth control, that’s the problem. They are really more concerned with “promiscuity” than the lives of unborn children.

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 1, 2015 at 1:05 PM

      • If they wan’t to spend their time and effort on public information campaigns to discourage premarital sex, then I’d be all for it. But they’d rather just rant against abortion.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 1, 2015 at 8:50 PM

      • Opposition to birth control is not an Evangelical position.

        Mike Street Station

        August 2, 2015 at 11:10 AM

      • @Lion:

        The papist side of the Catholic church had a hissy fit when Bloomberg tried his campaign against teen pregnancies. They were saying things like it would push people into abortion. And they whine that the powers that be and the smart people – apart from the deep state they themselves fund – hate them.

        That said, they – and a fair hunk of Protestants have a rational reason for this. Poor people are their bread and butter. Without them, how will they go to the trough of govt largesse and wolf it all down?

        Jesse

        August 2, 2015 at 1:46 PM

  9. Remember: What would Jesus do?
    In politics, What would Republicans NOT do? Would probably make for a fairly decent political philosophy. …. And “something useful” would be a top answer.

    Knowmad

    July 31, 2015 at 5:00 PM

  10. This is conservative/Republican status posturing.

    bomag

    July 31, 2015 at 5:05 PM

    • beats engaging the public on immigration.

      Mrs Stitch

      August 1, 2015 at 1:37 PM

  11. Correct. I feel like asking pro-life absolutists how many billion people they think is good for the earth.

    ewanmacerc

    July 31, 2015 at 6:13 PM

    • It’s not really how many but what type. The UES is “overpopulated” but enjoys one of the highest standards of living on earth. Or a less lofty example, I recently watched a documentary about hipsters in Oakland who created off grid mini-homes from cargo containers on a 1/2 acre parking lot. The inhabitants are programmers and intellectuals- minus the nonstop SJW talk it almost looked like a pleasant place to live.

      Concerns about overpopulation appeal to the well educated with high future time orientation, so precisely the people who should be having children for a better society stop having them. Meanwhile society gets dumber and more power/ wealth falls into fewer hands. This is exactly what we’ve seen since the “babies are pollution” creed began in the 1960s.

      It is probably true that the women with better FTO opt for abortion (and as others have pointed out abortion = less crime has been debunked). Had abortion been legal and readily accessible Steve Jobs and Bobby Fischer probably would have been aborted. In that respect we’re in a brave new world re survival of the fittest when “survival” is legally in the hands of the mother for 9 months.

      slithy toves

      August 1, 2015 at 10:54 AM

  12. Why can’t Republicans do something useful, such as doing something about illegal immigration?

    1# Because the Republican party is made up of and controlled by corporate interests that want cheap labor and stupid consumers, and that means MORE immigration.

    2# Because the Republican party is made up of and controlled by semi-retarded Evangelical Christians who have made opposition to abortion and gays the most important part of their religious identity. (Along with #3)

    3# Because the Republican party is made up of and controlled by radical Zionist lunatics, Jewish and Christians, whose entire foreign policy is focused on the state of Israel.

    Everything the Republicans advocate should be seen through those 3 lenses.

    Rifleman

    July 31, 2015 at 6:35 PM

    • I think you are on to something.

      ModernReader

      July 31, 2015 at 11:04 PM

    • Not a single prominent Republican is a radical Zionist. A radical Zionist would call for the annexation of Yehudah and Shomron (i.e. all of Eretz Yisroel) by the State of Israel, and the elimination of Muslim excrescences from the Temple Mount. And this would be a very rational position for an American leader to take — bold defiance of the Muslim evil that threatens the West. It is entirely compatible with an anti-immigration position. In fact, any position other than this truly radical Zionist one would be INcompatible with an anti-immigration position.

      Garr

      August 2, 2015 at 5:40 AM

  13. While I can acknowledge the utility of abortion, especially of the lower classes, I just can’t stomach it, the wholesale murder of innocent human life.

    I’d rather force dumb people to take Depo than to allow all these abortions.

    Ob-Gyns turning babies/fetuses into mashed potatoes is simply inhuman and unacceptable in a civilized society. It’s murder.

    It’s easy for people to be pro-choice, they’ve already been born!

    Abortion should be illegal except in cases of rape.

    jjbees

    July 31, 2015 at 6:56 PM

    • Or congenital deformities.

      jjbees

      July 31, 2015 at 6:56 PM

    • So it’s OK to “murder” a baby if its father is an asshole? A lot of Republican politicians will adopt that exception, but it makes no sense. How would that even work in practice? We could expect the number of false rape accusations to go up.

      The fact of the matter is the vast majority of abortions take place in the first trimester. Those fetuses are not sentient beings. Right now we slaughter billions of animals so we can devour their body parts. Is *that* something a civilized society does?

      Vince

      July 31, 2015 at 10:42 PM

      • “Murder” is the illegal killing of a human. Abortion is not illegal, and fetuses are not really considered human. So it’s not murder.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 1, 2015 at 12:06 AM

      • “Murder” is the illegal killing of a human. Abortion is not illegal, and fetuses are not really considered human. So it’s not murder.

        – Your reasoning is that of a moron. Murder is not illegal killing. It’s unjustified killing. If a gov x makes a law making it legal to kill (insert ethny/religious group here) and organized mass killings follow, people aren’t a ok with that because hey, it’s not mas murder, it’s perfectly legal.

        Also, fetuses are known to be (not considered) human by anyone with even rudimentary understanding of basic scientific facts. In order to consider a life form created by breeding two humans as anything other than human, one would have to be utterly ignorant of biology, of very low iq and probably prone to magical thinking.

        Out of interest, what non-human entity do you imagine this fetus to be?

        -Rona

        Rona

        August 1, 2015 at 1:26 AM

      • Look at the dictionary: “the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought”

        Abortion is not unlawful, and therefore is not murder.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 1, 2015 at 9:36 AM

      • A fetus has a heartbeat and the major organs are already forming even in the first trimester. If it’s not human, then what is it? Just because a baby is less developed than a full grown adult does not make it any less human. Similarly, a fetus is just a smaller version of a baby. Fetuses, babies, toddlers, children, teenagers, adults — these are all different growth stages of a human being. A fetus does not miraculously turn into a newborn from a “glob of cells” just moments before coming out of the birth canal. It has been growing continuously in the womb for the past 9 months, just as it will continue to grow into an adult.

        If you hit a pregnant woman and she miscarried, you would be charged with murder. Whether a fetus is wanted or not does not change the fact that it is a human being.

        imwtk

        August 1, 2015 at 1:40 AM

      • Dogs and cats have hearbeats and major organs, but are not human.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 1, 2015 at 9:36 AM

      • There are some inconsistencies though. For example, killing a pregnant mother has been prosecuted as two murders, not one. Obviously mistaken reasoning. Also, fooling your pregnant gf into taking a morning-after pill or abortificient is apparently looked upon sternly and prosecuted more forcefully than if you get her so drunk she throws up and has a hang over. I’m sure there is more.

        Hence, the underlying legal principles appear to be confused and merely referring to legality is unsatisfying.

        Glengarry

        August 1, 2015 at 3:39 AM

      • “Dogs and cats have hearbeats and major organs, but are not human.”

        Isn’t the title of this post about “Planned [Human] Parenthood”? I did not know that cats and dogs can form naturally in a woman’s womb.

        imwtk

        August 1, 2015 at 1:12 PM

      • appealing to legality is weak when the conversation is normative.

        and whether it’s murder doesn’t matter…if you want to discuss in the current legal framework it’s all about when does preserving the fetus become a compelling state interest.

        swank

        August 1, 2015 at 3:22 PM

      • Of course a fetus is human. What other species could it be?

        The problem is the assumption that anything human possesses rights. Rights are based on an organism’s morally relevant characteristics, and species, in and of itself is a morally arbitrary category when it comes to basic rights.

        Can the organism in question experience pain? Does it have an interest in the future? Any rational person who has thought the matter through will quickly conclude we should grant rights to chimps, cows and dogs long before fetuses. (And please, let’s not argue that a fetus will grow up and eventually gain a concept of self, be capable of experiencing pain, etc. as that simply confuses acorns with oak trees. Embryos in freezers possess the same potentiality, but if you had the option of saving a freezer with a hundred embryos or a 4 year-old child (or a dog), then you probably wouldn’t give second thought to the “snowflake babies”).

        Vince

        August 1, 2015 at 4:24 PM

      • Abortion is not illegal, and fetuses are not really considered human. So it’s not murder

        It’s just about incredible to see this from a Jew, of all people. “It wasn’t murder when the Nazis did it because killing Jews was legit under the law.”

        Samson J.

        August 2, 2015 at 7:37 PM

      • @Lion

        So, we will speak in Halachic concepts of categorical discrimination, as this is the philosophical root of your logic and all such logic whether or not you realize or acknowledge it. At some point in your logic, a fetus would become human. Generally, within the same tradition, that point would be when the fetus as achieved the ability to reason. In general, this is the Halachic view of the category of “human”. The sincere question that I pose to you is whether or not a Jewish fetus is human? As, in the same tradition, Jews by nature are human. Thus, is a baby who cannot yet reason but will inevitably reason considered human? Is aborting a Jewish baby murder? Does the guaranteed potential to reason make us or anyone human?

        Eschewing all of the Talmudic tie ins, and I won’t be offended if you choose to ignore them, I can restate by asking if our potential to be human is enough to categorize baby killing as murder? At what point is a fetus human?

        Also, moving the goalpost from moral reasoning to legal reasoning isn’t exactly legitimate rhetoric. Either we argue from morality or law, as they aren’t the same in the current world in which we live.

        Jon

        August 4, 2015 at 12:32 PM

    • So don’t have one. It’s just birth control a little late.

      Inhuman? Maybe. Practical? Yes. The endlessly sympathetic society will not survive.

      ModernReader

      July 31, 2015 at 11:02 PM

  14. I think a permissive attitude towards abortion encourages promiscuity, illegitimacy, etc. So I denounce it for the sake of my family. But I really don’t mind if poor, criminally inclined people have one. I wish pro-lifers would stop trying to defund PP and focus on getting the welfare class on long term BC like depo provera or something.

    destructure

    July 31, 2015 at 7:09 PM

    • Welfare for single women encourages promiscuity too. It’s starting to look more and more to me like our grandparents’ and great grandparents’ generations had more sensible attitudes about what makes a functioning, successful society.

      Sgt. Joe Friday

      August 1, 2015 at 1:15 PM

      • That has probably been the biggest revelation for me as I’ve aged, “My grandparents were right!”

        Mike Street Station

        August 2, 2015 at 11:32 AM

      • “Welfare for single women encourages promiscuity too.”

        Only for the women who’d make terrible mothers completely independent of marital status before they get pregnant.

        Jesse

        August 2, 2015 at 1:51 PM

  15. The “Abortion Reduces Crime” has been thoroughly discredited over the years.

    Brian

    July 31, 2015 at 7:09 PM

    • Not convincingly

      XVO

      August 1, 2015 at 11:58 AM

      • For instance, how could you even study that, take 2 places that are the exact same in every way, and then legalize abortion in the one place and outlaw it in the other, watch it for 200 years and see what happens. It’s impossible to prove it with studies either way. What you have is both sides cherry picking the real world examples/studies that support their point, apparently you’ve chosen to
        a) believe that these studies mattered in the first place
        b) believe the studies that support your belief are the final say
        thus you believe the claim has been debunked.

        If poor people are more likely to commit crimes and poor people get abortions then there will be less people who commit crime. Simple logic (simple rhetoric?), the first two statements are true thus the third follows obviously.

        XVO

        August 1, 2015 at 12:06 PM

  16. Even the liberals at Yeshiva University would disagree with this post, maybe even strongly.

    howitzer daniel

    July 31, 2015 at 7:23 PM

  17. How come PP doesn’t just come out with a statement like, “you know we’re doing great work reducing the number of low IQ births, so don’t bother us on this baby parts thing.” ?

    sorry, I don't hire tattoos

    July 31, 2015 at 7:33 PM

    • Because stupid people would be offended. And there are a lot of stupid people.

      ModernReader

      July 31, 2015 at 10:58 PM

    • Then the Democrats would want to defund them, and the Christian Republicans would still want to defund them.

      XVO

      August 1, 2015 at 12:08 PM

  18. Trump is leading the polls because the DemoRats and their allies have no shame; the the Retarduplicans are little better. PP brought this on themselves by selling baby parts! Honestly, this is comic book villain evil. They got caught on camera saying that they will kill the baby differently depending on what body part you need. Fucking retards. How could they not know the reaction to that? New meaning the the term picking up nickels in front of a steamroller.

    The Retarduplicans are right to take advantage. Leverage this crisis to close the border, cut back on single mother welfare etc.

    Don’t worry LOB, coat hangers are still readily available.

    Winston Smith

    July 31, 2015 at 7:39 PM

    • They weren’t doing anything illegal, and the fetuses no longer need the issue. Why not put it to good use, for medical research that could lead to medicine that could save the lives of wanted babies?

      • I smell a class action law suit from the tissue incubators though. Were they informed that their tumors would be sold for good hard cash without them being compensated?

        Glengarry

        August 1, 2015 at 3:44 AM

      • They got a free abortion, they have no right to complain.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 1, 2015 at 9:37 AM

      • A lot of people want it to be illegal, and a callous attitude toward the thing gives your opponents more incentive.

        bomag

        August 1, 2015 at 6:21 AM

      • They weren’t doing anything illegal, and the fetuses no longer need the issue.

        Because they were killed. By that reasoning it’s cool for me to murder you as long as I make your body useful.

        Look, I get it. Proles = bad. But killing people because their parents suck? Come on man.

        dsgntd_plyr

        August 1, 2015 at 9:16 AM

      • Murder is illegal and you would go to prison for life. Abortion isn’t murder, it’s a legal constitutionally sanctioned (according to the Supreme Court) medical procedure.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 1, 2015 at 9:40 AM

      • There are organ tissue commerce bans, also there is a partial birth abortion ban. The video showed conspiracy to break both of those laws.

        But Lion’s right, if the current cuckservatives press this with their weak methods, then the public will turn on tem and demand both laws get overturned.

        Rotten

        August 1, 2015 at 10:34 AM

      • Of course they have a right to complain.

        Glengarry

        August 2, 2015 at 12:43 PM

  19. *Planned Parenthood is pretty much the only eugenic thing the government is doing*

    Well, the prison system is eugenic, but it’s best not to mention that. Also, there is a possibility that the women getting abortions are doing it out of a sense of foresight and responsibility, which would suggest intelligence.

    onetwothree

    July 31, 2015 at 7:58 PM

  20. Exactly. They are pandering to their born-again base, a group of people that is completely divorced from the real world. And hey, symbols don’t cost anything, right?

    The Republican party is doomed. May take them a while to figure that out though.

    ModernReader

    July 31, 2015 at 9:19 PM

    • Be realistic, it is not going to take much time for those people who despise abortion to outbreed those people who, like you, are cool with it. You don’t have to be as smart as Moses Maimonides to figure that out.

      howitzer daniel

      July 31, 2015 at 10:41 PM

      • That’s all very hypothetical. It may be that the children of religious Christian types will become liberal.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 1, 2015 at 12:06 AM

      • It will likely take quite a while:

        jasonbayz

        August 1, 2015 at 1:46 AM

      • That’s all very hypothetical.

        The numbers are astonishingly frank. The pro-abortion crowd has been around for, what, a hundred years? And they are demographically extinct already. That is a blip in time.

        bomag

        August 1, 2015 at 6:27 AM

      • howitzer is correct. Conservatives, especially the most religious ones, have more kids. Wrt the kids, ideology is partly genetic [http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/09/study-on-twins-suggests-our-political-beliefs-may-be-hard-wired/] so most kids adopt their parents positions. The long-run will be Utah in the West, ISIS in the East.

        dsgntd_plyr

        August 1, 2015 at 9:21 AM

  21. Republicans also don’t want women in jail to get abortions:

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-tug-war-over-jailed-alabama-womans-pregnancy

    Lot

    July 31, 2015 at 10:06 PM

  22. It seems a more than a few articles this week have latched onto and trumpeted the idea that conservative media and conservative political operatives have divergent interests. If Hannity, Limbaugh and Fox News make more money with a Democrat in the highest office, then they’re not stupid for sabotaging Republican candidates.

    Historically the Democratic party has been more fragmented, but new technologies, coupled with conservative media, have empowered extremely ideological segments of the population. The GOP’s masters would never do anything about abortion, but they also wouldn’t do anything about immigration. The coalition itself is deeply divided.

    Ron Paul’s candidacy was interesting because more people began to express skepticism about U.S. adventurism and meddling, but that issue seems to have receded into the background.

    Vince

    July 31, 2015 at 10:37 PM

  23. Abortion is an abomination and should be mostly illegal in a sane civilized society. But in a corrupt and evil society with endless blacks and browns, it’s the only stop-gap.

    And Republicans/Christians are again total and utter CUCKSERVATIVES in caring so very deeply and heartfelt about ghetto black unborn babies.

    fakeemail

    July 31, 2015 at 11:43 PM

    • In nearly all civilized society, abortion is legal. It’s in the uncivilized societies like Iran and Pakistan where it’s illegal.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 1, 2015 at 12:07 AM

      • In many of the same civilized societies, “hate speech” (which would include the truths of HBD) is illegal, so I’m not sure what that proves.

        Hermes

        August 1, 2015 at 12:39 AM

      • Because of our poor demographics, we urgently need to import workers from Pakistan and other exotic places.

        Glengarry

        August 1, 2015 at 3:47 AM

      • Correct, given the fact that the Islamic Nations, are more realistic about blacks than we are. Furthermore, our miscreants have no aspirations that call for a higher octave. They are clueless, their diatribes are random, and their hatred for the White demographic is nonsensical.

        JS

        August 1, 2015 at 3:03 PM

      • Abortion was illegal in America when America was at it’s best.

        fakeemail

        August 1, 2015 at 11:39 PM

      • Post-Christian, “civilized society” is not without its ills. Take Belgium, for instance, where they’ve already slid down the slope from abortion to euthanasia for the depressed, etc. Or look at England, where neglected elderly patients in their national health service hospitals have died of thirst. When a late term fetus’s life is meaningless, everyone else’s lives are worth less too.

        Dave Pinsen

        August 2, 2015 at 6:54 AM

      • Why shouldn’t people with chronic incurable psychiatric illness be allowed to die with dignity?

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 10:27 AM

      • @fakeemail:

        “Abortion was illegal in America when America was at it’s best.”

        When America was at its best, it was white. Illegal abortion was a correlation, not a causation.

        Jesse

        August 2, 2015 at 2:00 PM

    • There are four subsets of depression, according to Bruce Charlton, MD,of which most can be cured without medical and pharmacological intervention. Dave Pinsen’s comment was clearly not referring only to a subset of depression that is considered incurable.

      howitzer daniel

      August 2, 2015 at 11:24 AM

  24. In Bulgakov’s The Master and the Margarita, Satan explains his relationship to God by looking at a candle and comparing the shadow to light. If God is light then what is not must be his. It was a frank admission that God rules but that Satan undeniably exists too, albeit as an inferior. Satan is a metaphor for feminism; or visa versa. Feminism is a inferior reflexive ideology that can only be defined by another ideology or belief. Without light, it does not exist.

    We have been hearing for two generations now how women are so independent and do not need men. When the Republicans defunded planned parenthood it was the perfect opportunity for the feminists to step in and simply pony up the money. They would have single handedly eliminated conservatives / men / Republicans from the decision process and forever ended the debate. The problem is that this was always really about forcing men to pay for abortion. Women have no intention of paying for this anymore than they have for paying for anything else. Men are supposed to pay for everything. And once that precedent has been broken, there is not telling what women will have to pay for next.

    Prof. Woland

    August 1, 2015 at 12:08 AM

    • Virtually all idealogies are reflexive, especially conservative (i.e. reactionary) strains, so what’s your point?

      Atlan

      August 1, 2015 at 10:26 AM

    • Risk management, like abortion, is a thankless business: disasters prevented are only rarely visible to the naked eye. Thank an abortionist, then, that your child attends public schools with fewer of the violent, mildly retarded children of the lower class; that you haven’t been mugged or carjacked lately by a now-grown unwanted child needing cash for their next fix; that for every aborted American child the world’s carbon output is reduced by over 1600 tons per lifetime so that your own wanted, contributing, intelligent progeny can reap the benefits. This, I’m afraid, is nothing more than the next stage of human evolution at work.

      Also, for the love of god, please stop your whining about men paying for everything and your horrendous pseudo-analysis of great works of Russian literature. Abortion – and other forms of population control – is necessary if humanity is to avoid a Malthusian catastrophe. It’s worth paying for.

      Viscount Douchenozzlé

      August 1, 2015 at 12:05 PM

      • I am pro-choice and fully understand and agree with your argument but women’s hypergamy works in the aggregate as well. Why use your own money when you can spend someone else’s through government benefits? That is true whether it is for abortion or EBT cards. True, I was overwrought with my metaphor but it works. In the end, when you have reduced feminism down to what it is, I am not far off (except the Satan part maybe).

        Prof. Woland

        August 2, 2015 at 12:48 PM

  25. I wish the government would also fund Planned Sterilization, but I’ll settle for Planned Parenthood.

    Owing to Republican derangement and Roman Catholic Church bullying, it’s illegal for the US government to promote family planning overseas.

    Republicans weren’t always barking mad:

    “Each year, Planned Parenthood presents The Barry Goldwater Award to an outstanding public official who has supported Planned Parenthood and reproductive health issues.

    “This prestigious award is presented each year to an outstanding elected official who has acted as a leader within the Republican Party to protect women’s reproductive rights across the United States.

    “The award honors the late Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater [1909-1998], an outspoken leader in the Republican Party for decades. Senator Goldwater was a freethinking individual, who voted his conscience and was a leading voice in the Republican Party to ensure the rights granted to women following the Roe v. Wade decision.”

    Mark Caplan

    August 1, 2015 at 12:12 AM

  26. Can we all agree that the morning-after pill is not abortion?

    jef

    August 1, 2015 at 12:33 AM

    • Nope.

      Or perhaps yes, if you want to be technical, but then it’s just distinction without a difference.

      Samson J.

      August 2, 2015 at 7:48 PM

      • So, you believe microscopic people have rights?

        jef

        August 3, 2015 at 1:00 AM

  27. The Republican focus on abortion is a result of the civil rights movement. In the 1970s conservative activists recognized that they had lost the struggle against the civil right movement and they needed a conservative moral cause to organize conservative around. At the time the IRS was threatening to revoke the tax exempt status of segregated evangelical private school in the South as a way of forcing them to integrate. Evangelical leaders were furious with the government and wanted to turn this into a religious freedom issue. Conservative leaders convinced them this would be another losing issue, and the better moral issue to organize around was abortion.

    Evangelical leaders at the time were skeptical. Most were not concerned about abortion and some had even spoken in support of it. The Evangelicals viewed abortion as a Catholic issue, and they were generally anti-Catholic. Conservative leaders eventually convinced them that abortion could be framed as a powerful moral issue to unify conservative Christians into a conservative voting block.

    Evangelical leaders over time came around to life begins at conception and abortion is murder. Today Evangelical leaders are even trying to convince women that birth control pills are the same as an abortion and they are murders if they use oral birth control pills. These are positions that were unheard of in the 1960s, but the search to create a moral cause to unify conservatives like the civil rights movement had unified liberals is what has gotten us where we are today.

    mikeca

    August 1, 2015 at 12:53 AM

    • 100% correct. The reason, incidentally, that the Planned Parenthood fight is being brought now is that the GOP now understands structurally that they must manage to get a larger percentage of their base to actually vote in a presidential election. The only issues that can help them to do this are a) illegal low-skilled immigration and b) abortion. The GOP cannot win a presidential election on the basis of the sentiments of the majority, but they can win on % voter turnout, particularly when strict voter ID rules and other restrictions on the voting population are implemented.

      Viscount Douchenozzlé

      August 1, 2015 at 11:44 AM

    • Do you have links to support all that? My understanding is that there is a long history of resistance to birth control and abortion and that many reforms weren’t even instituted democratically but instead through court decisions. Catholics just don’t make up a large enough portion of the population to account for all of that.

      Lloyd Llewellyn

      August 1, 2015 at 11:46 AM

    • yes. American politics = race. it’s not a coincidence that the “evangelicals” are concentrated in the former CSA.

      swank

      August 4, 2015 at 2:14 PM

  28. Planned Parenthood is evil, therefore funding it is wrong.

    Perturabo

    August 1, 2015 at 4:15 AM

  29. If abortion isn’t killing human, then please explain how PP is harvesting fully developed human organs from these non-human “clumps of cells.” Exactly. It’s killing, and you know that.

    I don’t understand the enthusiasm for abortion when reversible birth control is ~99.9% as effective as being sterilized. The only logical conclusion is that people who support abortion are evil.

    dsgntd_plyr

    August 1, 2015 at 9:07 AM

    • I support abortion. I do so because I desire to reduce human misery. It is in fact you, who condemn poor children to their unwanted, stressful, and meaningless existence, who are evil.

      Viscount Douchenozzlé

      August 1, 2015 at 11:49 AM

      • Birth control and celibacy prevent pregnancy. I’m not interested in condemning anyone to a crappy life. Try again.

        dsgntd_plyr

        August 2, 2015 at 10:59 AM

      • Today we, and by we I mean you, get to learn a new cognitive skill: separating intent from results.

        Rather than inflict your worldview on people who are most likely neither as organized nor as responsible as you are you may eventually arrive at the following, data-driven conclusions: a) availability of birth control in the USA is the lowest among civilized nations b) poor, uneducated people are most likely to need abortion due to being less organized/responsible with birth control, if indeed they even have it and c) that demographic of poor people, particularly men, is most likely to commit crimes, to be a net negative taxpayer, to exhibit below-average educational attainment and intellect, and to generally exhibit a lower level of ability to compete and survive in contemporary society.

        Indeed you do condemn people to “a crappy life” with your votes. And you do so because you have been coerced into it by political strategists whose true interests lie elsewhere. All the while lowering your own standard of living.

        There are concrete, data- and evidence-based methods of making decisions. You might eventually find it advantageous, then, to use them to improve your life and that of your progeny. Or, I guess, not.

        Viscount Douchenozzlé

        August 2, 2015 at 1:47 PM

    • “please explain how PP is harvesting fully developed human organs from these non-human “clumps of cells.”

      Many of us see harvesting fetal material for medical research as a positive good because the organism in question is not a conscious, reasoning, cognizant human BEING (or person) with a network of social attachments.

      While your Roman Catholic or whatever faith might dictate that a human ovum acquires a mystical soul or spark of divine fluff at the moment of fertilization, try to understand that not everyone shares your scientifically indemonstrable belief.

      Mark Caplan

      August 1, 2015 at 11:59 AM

      • I’m atheist.

        dsgntd_plyr

        August 2, 2015 at 10:56 AM

      • Also, you didn’t answer the question. If it’s not human, how are they getting human organs? Can one get a human heart from Cecil the Lion? Can I not get human lungs from Mark Caplan?

        Exactly.

        dsgntd_plyr

        August 2, 2015 at 11:04 AM

    • The Evangelicals, who are the leaders of the anti-abortion movement, are also opposed to birth control. If they ever succeed in overturning Roe v Wade, they will try to outlaw birth control as well as abortion.

      mikeca

      August 1, 2015 at 12:06 PM

    • Do you support imprisoning women who have abortions as murderers? If not, why not?

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 1, 2015 at 1:03 PM

    • It’s killing, and you know that.

      Of course they know it; it’s part of what J. Budziszewski called “what we can’t not know”.

      But I’ve been around this block long enough to know that half the guys on this thread who profess such trendy neo-atheist views secretly go back to their beds at night with a copy of the New Testament, trying desperately to convince themselves that it isn’t true.

      Samson J.

      August 2, 2015 at 7:35 PM

      • No one takes a New Testament to bed trying to convince themselves that it isn’t true. Not that abortion is actually mentioned by Jesus, as far as I know.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 7:51 PM

      • I assume it’s the other way around. Anyone who looks into the night sky at the billions of stars and galaxies up there, or who contemplates the immense passage of geological time visible in the Grand Canyon has to find Christianity (as well as Judaism and Islam) rather ignorant attempts to explain the fairly obvious insignificance of man’s place in the universe.

        Peter Akuleyev

        August 3, 2015 at 2:43 AM

  30. As far as the GOP the Gingrich shutdown was followed by taking the House, Senate, and White House 2 years later. The Cruz shutdown lead to keeping the House, and taking the Senate. How did they lose?

    Mitch McConnell is to blame for adopting the loser strategy. He intentionally chose a method of trying to pass the defunding that would require a 3/5 majority, rather than a method that only required a simple majority (the Right-wing press is going crazy over this). He’s either dumb, or supports abortion, but wants plausible deniability when he’s up for re-election.

    dsgntd_plyr

    August 1, 2015 at 9:10 AM

    • “He’s either dumb, or supports abortion, but wants plausible deniability when he’s up for re-election.”

      You’re quick.

      Viscount Douchenozzlé

      August 1, 2015 at 11:47 AM

  31. Less blacks, less problems. PP just got another $100 from me.

    And PS, might be an interesting, fun time in Cincy.

    Vodka

    August 1, 2015 at 10:21 AM

    • I gave PP’s Texas branch $2000 last week. I do not live in Texas, but that state being the one with the most rapid population growth it seemed the most effective avenue.

      Viscount Douchenozzlé

      August 2, 2015 at 1:14 PM

  32. Are they doing anything about Planned Parenthood?

    I though they were just being cuckservatives. Whine whine whine about planned parenthood and then give them the money anyways, maybe even with a raise.

    Rotten

    August 1, 2015 at 10:29 AM

    • “Well yes, but”

      Glengarry

      August 2, 2015 at 12:35 PM

  33. 1) I seriously doubt abortion cuts crime. The women who typically get abortions are planners, meaning they are the ones that really need to be having children. The women who end up not getting abortions are the typically stupid and impulsive, the ones who don’t want to be alone or who think their parents will help them. Abortion alters the demographic structure of the babies born, leading to the stupid, impulsive and violent being born. That’s how you got the crack wars in the late 80’s despite abortion being legal in 1973.

    2) I have serious doubts that abortion clinics are the minority abattoir that some on the right think it is. it may be that abortion clinics are simply co-located in minority neighborhoods, rather than reflecting an unusually high demand among minorities. Traffic at abortion clinics in white areas is probably the same as it is in minority areas.

    3) Why is Planned Parenthood equivalent to abortion? Abortion would still be legal and available even if planned parenthood did not exist. Besides, getting rid of Planned Parenthood is perfectly reasonable even if you support abortion. Why? Because it is a vile organization filled with vile people. Look at the videos of the two women chomping on food and joking about Lamborghinis while discussing selling body parts. They display a very high degree of callous disregard that probably permeates the entire organization. Such callous disregard means that Planned Parenthood is doing other unsavory things. For example, are they performing abortions on underage girls without informing parents or police? Are they performing abortions in unsanitary conditions, threatening their patients with infections or other problems? Are they involved in any kind of fraud or other illegal activities? I don’t see why draining this left-wing swamp is such a big deal.

    4) Why hasn’t any republican come out and say that he supports abortion for Democrats and no abortion for Right-Wingers? It’s just a way of splitting the difference and black knighting the left: Fully subsidized abortions for all leftists and progressive; no abortions for good people, like Red-Staters and Christians.

    map

    August 1, 2015 at 12:59 PM

    • Women who get abortions are women who can’t plan well enough to avoid getting pregnant in the first place. And maybe they want to party and do drugs instead of being burdened with raising children.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 1, 2015 at 8:48 PM

      • This is correct. Abortions do save lives. Abortions block terrable lives from being lived.

        Way 2 gay

        August 2, 2015 at 8:43 AM

  34. Just because something is legally sanctioned by the state does not mean that it is right or morally justified. If a fetus is not a human life then what the hell is it? There are many “fetuses” born prematurely at six or seven months that survive and for all purposes are fully developed.

    Abortion has been justified for convenience and little more. When the pregnancy is wanted it is an “unborn child” and when the pregnancy is unwanted it is an “unviable mass of tissue”. If a pregnant woman and the “fetus” get killed the perpetrator will likely be charged with double homicide.

    There is simply no way to reconcile these double standards unless someone is willfully lying to themselves.

    B.T.D.T.

    August 1, 2015 at 1:02 PM

    • Abortion is like war. You dehumanize who you want to kill in order to get over the natural human revulsion to killing.

      But you always know what you did.

      dsgntd_plyr

      August 2, 2015 at 11:14 AM

  35. Meanwhile, blacks completely indifferent to this debate… since they never plan anything relating to parenthood.

    Camlost

    August 1, 2015 at 1:10 PM

  36. Lion, I think everyone acknowledges that abortion is legal. And limiting the prole and sub-prole population is probably the single most important thing any government can do moving forward. BUT…

    A related question, however, is this: aren’t there some restrictions would you put on abortion?

    If you’ve never been responsible for, or involved with a pregnancy – never done any of the reading about how life develops in utero, it’s easy to glibly, generally, support “choice.” If you are better informed of the facts, it gets murkier.

    To me, there are some clear cut cases when it should be permitted: rape, incest, and when the health of the mother is imperiled. Up to 20 weeks.

    I would be fine with it being entirely up to the mother up to 20 weeks under any circumstances, though I myself would not make the choice to terminate a healthy pregnancy. That’s a choice too.

    Beyond 20 weeks, you’re at an age of the fetus where the baby can absolutely feel pain, and is close to the cutoff for surviving outside the womb. NICUs have helped children survive from 22 weeks on so far, and the record seems to get younger every year.

    In this country, at least 3K abortions are performed after that 20 week mark. They may be legal, but I think that in the moral sense — that sense which is the basis for Western thought and jurisprudence — they are murder.

    And I don’t think fetal tissue should be used without the consent of the woman. Planned Parenthood seems to have been playing fast and loose, and they deserve a major slapdown.

    Don’t you suspect Planned Parenthood has been over the line in some cases?

    Jonah

    August 1, 2015 at 2:16 PM

    • “aren’t there some restrictions would you put on abortion?”

      Restrictions means lots of government regulations. No, it’s too difficult to try to regulate it.

      In other countries, like India and China, infanticide is still common. so we would still be morally ahead of the rest of the world.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 1, 2015 at 8:51 PM

      • So just to be clear – you’d be cool with 38 week pregnancies being terminated? Kid could pop out any minute, but because he/she hasn’t yet, just… stab away?

        Jonah

        August 2, 2015 at 1:08 PM

      • Yes, I’m OK with that if the mother-to-be is OK with it and the doctor is OK with it.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 1:23 PM

    • And limiting the prole and sub-prole population is probably the single most important thing any government can do moving forward.

      Government functions to serve big business. What you call proles big business calls workers and consumers.

      Big business wants more of them not less.

      Opposition to abortion is dishonest. All of these bleeding heart MALES talking about BABIES just want to control women’s bodies and women’s sexuality.

      The pro abortion side won and if there are eventually more religious people due to birth rates then there will be less abortions because the religious people will be less promiscuous and will want to have babies not abort them.

      But abortion will still be legal. Especially as long as women get to vote.

      Abortion, gay rights, immigration – it will all continue and there’s nothing the Republican “base” can due about it.

      Rifleman

      August 2, 2015 at 4:24 AM

      • All of these bleeding heart MALES talking about BABIES just want to control women’s bodies and women’s sexuality.

        You sound like some aging feminist fruitcake. I do actually think that female sexuality needs to be restrained for the good of society, but that has nothing to do with abortion, which is all about the life of a child.

        Samson J.

        August 2, 2015 at 7:43 PM

    • Abortion should be based on science, not ideology or religion. Establish criteria to determine when a clump of cells is “human.” For example, at how many weeks does the fetus have a nervous system? Feel pain? Then work from there. Not a doctor but that would probably be earlier than 20 weeks but not much more.

      Mike Street Station

      August 2, 2015 at 12:36 PM

  37. Republicans have been harvesting millions of votes from religious voters for decades and given them basically nothing. They have to do stuff like this (which is symbolic, PP is not actually going to get defunded) or these people will wise up and stop voting for them.

    Planned Parenthood was founded as and has always been an explicitly eugenicist organization, but that gets soft-pedaled today.

    Ed

    August 1, 2015 at 3:09 PM

  38. Not only that, but more abortion = fewer future Democrats.

    Trump is the only one in the race that has both correct positions for saving the Republican Party (subsidized abortion and reducing immigration), which is why Democrats hate him the most and consider him a real threat.

    Bilbo Baggins

    August 1, 2015 at 8:35 PM

  39. Abortion is a crime and a murder. Bible tells us so, that’s how we know. A woman has no choice because it’s not her body even though it’s in her body. The distinction is very simple to grasp. In all cases except when a woman’s mental or physical health is in danger it should be forbidden. The way to solve this problem, as I’ve said in the earlier posts, is forced sterilization of both parents who cannot support their child. This would lead to a speedy reduction of the undesirable population and illegal immigration. You think Mexicans will pay coyotes to come to the US to be sterilized? I don’t think so.

    Abortion doctors are bloody murderers and should be treated as such.

    Yakov

    August 1, 2015 at 10:06 PM

    • Where does it say in the Torah that abortion is a crime and murder?

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 2, 2015 at 12:16 AM

      • Yakov

        August 2, 2015 at 4:46 AM

      • Actually the torah distinguishes between abortion and murder quite clearly. If a man causes a woman to miscarry through violence (say if he beats her), it is considered a loss of property and punished as such with a monetary fine. But if he causes the woman to die, it’s considered murder. It’s weird that christians overlook this. It’s exodus 21:22 if anyone is interested.

        slithy toves

        August 2, 2015 at 9:15 AM

      • That’s a bunch of Rabbis arguing with each other, not a direct paragraph in the Torah which says “abortion is an abomination, a woman who aborts her unborn child shall be stoned.”

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 10:33 AM

      • @slithy toves

        Its tempting to jump to this conclusion, but I wouldn’t do do. ‘An eye for an eye’ is interpreted as monetary compensation as well. So a wide variety of damages result in monetary compensation. As far as when the soul entered the body, this speculation isn’t a factor in normative Halacha, it belongs to a mystical realm. The law doesn’t change based on the term of the fetus. The reason that it’s not considered a full person, בר קיימא, is because we are not sure of its survival until after 30 days. This is what’s brought down in Halacha, as far as I remember and understand. A fetus cannot be sold so in what way is it a property?

        Yakov

        August 4, 2015 at 5:58 PM

    • The “Bible tells us so.”

      Stop and think for a second: The Bible condemning abortion would be like the Bible condemning flying from Gilead to Los Vegas on a jet airplane. Abortion as we think of it today, where the expectant woman isn’t poisoned or otherwise murdered, was not possible in the time of the Bible, or anytime before the advent of antibiotics, anesthesia, and modern medicine.

      Mark Caplan

      August 2, 2015 at 7:36 AM

      • God is supposed to be omniscient, if abortion was that important to Him he would have mentioned it. Instead, he spend a lot of time telling people not toe at shrimp.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 10:29 AM

      • How do we know that Moses wore a yarmulkah? Because it says: וילך משה.. (and Moses went…), can you imagine Moses walking without a yarmulkah?

        Can you imagine Moses being an abortionist?

        You mates brought up good points, but I’m working and minting money right now. Will reply to you later.

        Yakov

        August 2, 2015 at 10:59 AM

      • @Lion

        Torah was given in a specific time and place. Newly arising circumstances are dealt on the basis of the principals set out in the Torah at the time of Moses.

        @slithy toves

        First I wanted to present the mainstream orthodox approach. I’m no authority, but I will present my layman’s prole understanding of the issue.

        The verse in exodus deals with a situation of manslaughter. Men fight, hit a woman by accident or in a fit of passion and she miscarries. The perpetrator pays a fine because with a new born child there is a doubt if he will live and hence he is not considered a fully fledged human being. Had a woman or a man been killed in similar circumstances the punishment is exile to the cities of refuge and not death. Capital punishment only applies to premeditated murder. This is my prole understanding of this passage and it’s legal implications.

        Torah doesn’t deal with a man who deliberately extracts a fetus from a woman’s womb. There is no need to mention it after other various laws have been taught. We can understand from what has been taught about the sanctity of human life that if Torah punishes accidental termination of fetus’ life, it will punish it’s deliberate termination more severely. How severely? The rabbits can debate this issue? The rabbis can debate the issue, but I think execution by drawing and quartering is appropriate. These doctors cut a baby to pieces to feed to the dogs or use it for their experiments, they should be cut to pieces themselves, thrown to the dogs and used for experiments. An eye for an eye and a baby for an abortionist doctor.

        @ Mark Caplan

        Torah is talking about manslaughter of a fetus, not abortion. Torah doesn’t discuss abortion. The first commandment given to the first man Adam and the first woman Eve was to be fruitful and multiply. That’s what the Almighty wants. It’s clear.

        Yakov

        August 2, 2015 at 2:44 PM

      • @ Yakov – I’m sure you know that a half truth is a whole lie. The commandment continues beyond “be fruitful and multiply.” It says to populate the earth and rule over ALL the earth’s creatures. This tells me the human population must be maintained at a sustainable level so as not to over-hunt, over-fish, or destroy habitats and drive earth’s creatures to extinction.

        Mark Caplan

        August 2, 2015 at 11:13 PM

      • Mark Caplan,

        Mate, be serious. What you are saying – not to overfish – maybe a good idea by itself, but it would be a novel interpretation of the text to see in it a justification for abortion! Now you make me laugh – abort the children to save the fish?! I mean come on, the kids eat too much fish so we should abort them? Maybe we should raise more fish instead? Ever thought of that? The Japs eat one sixth of the world fish, so let’s go abort the Japs?! You must have a good drink, mate.
        The commandment of ‘be fruitful and multiply’ has its parametets. The Biblical requirement is a boy and a girl with rabbinical injunction extending it one’s ability to raise and support them. That’s for us Jews, I don’t think for Gentiles it’s much different.

        Yakov

        August 3, 2015 at 12:45 AM

      • @Mark Caplan

        Israel used to have lions. King David hunted them, but they went extinct thousands of years ago. You think there is a place for lions in Israel? Like it’s a problem that they are gone? Where do you think they can live over there?

        This is the wackiest idea I’ve heard for a long time.

        Yakov

        August 3, 2015 at 12:51 AM

      • Fairly safe abortifacient herbs were well known in ancient times. Google “Silphium”. To be fair, they were generally condemned by Jews and later by Christians. Many people interpret Numbers 5:11-31 in the Torah as an injunction against abortion/induced miscarriage.

        Peter Akuleyev

        August 3, 2015 at 3:55 AM

      • yakov, I believe the salient point is that the fetus is regarded as property- as slaves were- but not fully human. Halachically miscarried fetuses do not transmit uncleanliness in the same way a human corpse does, and fetuses are not considered to have a soul until 40 days past conception. Until the baby’s head emerges during birth the mother’s life always takes precedence even if (before modern medicine) it meant dismembering the baby to save the mother’s life.

        Of course this is contradicted by the pslam that states god knits us together in our mother’s womb. There is a rabbinic line of thought that the truth of a matter is derived from two contradictory passages of torah.

        slithy toves

        August 4, 2015 at 8:30 AM

      • @slithy toves

        Its tempting to jump to this conclusion, but I wouldn’t do do. ‘An eye for an eye’ is interpreted as monetary compensation as well. So a wide variety of damages result in monetary compensation. As far as when the soul entered the body, this speculation isn’t a factor in normative Halacha, it belongs to a mystical realm. The law doesn’t change based on the term of the fetus. The reason that it’s not considered a full person, בר קיימא, is because we are not sure of its survival until after 30 days. This is what’s brought down in Halacha, as far as I remember and understand. A fetus cannot be sold so in what way is it a property?

        Yakov

        August 4, 2015 at 6:38 PM

      • It’s weird that christians overlook this. It’s exodus 21:22 if anyone is interested.

        The passage in Exodus 21:22 refers to a premature live birth rather than a miscarriage as we know it today.
        The original text in Hebrew should be examined, as explained in this article:

        http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-misuse-of-exodus-2122-25-by-pro-choice-advocates

        imwtk

        August 4, 2015 at 10:09 PM

  40. “Why not put it to good use, for medical research that could lead to medicine that could save the lives of wanted babies?”

    Or increase their risk of becoming autistic, according to some scientists:
    “Human DNA in Vaccines Linked to Autism”
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/07/10/this-shocking-fact-is-never-disclosed-on-any-vaccine-informed-consent-form.aspx

    imwtk

    August 1, 2015 at 11:57 PM

  41. “They got a free abortion, they have no right to complain.”

    Abortions are not free, at least not in Planned Parenthood. They range from hundreds to thousands of dollars.

    imwtk

    August 2, 2015 at 12:05 AM

  42. Abortion is mentioned nowhere in the Bible, so Christians and Jews don’t know God’s opinion of it.

    porkyboy

    August 2, 2015 at 1:21 AM

    • That opinion is born of modern semantic and philosophical nonsense. It was a given, before the modern morality and philosophy of objects took hold, that fetuses were logically categorized as human. Thus, the Christian mandate not to kill logically always applied to fetuses. In the Old Testament, only non-Jews were to be killed. Killing a Jewish baby would have been prohibited under Law. Only in modern philosophy is a fetus not human and thus only through such an ahistorical lens can it be said that the Bible does not comment on fetus killing.

      Jon

      August 4, 2015 at 12:47 PM

      • The philosophy of fetuses was never discussed in ancient times. When infanticide, much worse than abortion, was common.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 4, 2015 at 1:45 PM

  43. It comforts me that black woman so often exercise their Beautiful Right To Choose so that there will be a lot fewer Black Bodies in the future.

    porkyboy

    August 2, 2015 at 1:28 AM

  44. “The Donohue and Levitt study showed that there is a correlation between legalized abortion and reduced crime”

    Not to disagree with you overall, but I’m very skeptical of causal storytelling based on national level correlations.

    Alex

    August 2, 2015 at 4:51 AM

    • Then use common sense. Young poor people commit crime. More abortions = fewer young poor people = less crime. You really don’t need a study to know that it’s true.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 2, 2015 at 10:24 AM

  45. Finally I see someone who thinks the way I do about this issue and I consider myself a staunch conservative. I actually think most of today’s conservatives are focused on abortion to the point where
    they are no longer anti-welfare. They are so happy that the child was not aborted that they will gladly give it welfare for 18 years.

    Jay Fink

    August 2, 2015 at 6:13 AM

  46. A few problems with this post, Lion:

    1) I’m not convinced abortion is, on the whole, eugenic. Lots of poor women get abortions, true, but so do a lot of educated women who end up never having children, particularly where you live. I know one such childless, educated woman with 2 or 3 abortions under her belt. I bet she’d take a mulligan now on one of them if she could.

    2) Even if it’s eugenic, that doesn’t mean late term abortions where babies are stripped for parts should be done. Machine gunning poor people might be eugenic too, but it’s not “stupid” to oppose it for moral and other reasons.

    3) There are plenty of other eugenic policies that could be pursued, such as paying poor women to use long term birth control.

    4) Defunding Planned Parenthood isn’t the same thing as banning abortion.

    5) Attacking Planned Parenthood makes sense politically, since it’s embraced so closely by the left, and since the vast majority of Americans — including those who are pro-choice — would find the dismemberment and sale for parts of born-alive babies and late term fetuses horrifying. The left knows this, and that’s why Dem judges have tried to stop the release of the videos. It also makes sense because it rallies pro-lifers, who are a core part of the GOP coalition.

    Dave Pinsen

    August 2, 2015 at 7:04 AM

    • Look at the actual statistics and don’t guess. Educated women rarely get abortions because they rarely get accidentally pregnant in the first place. Accidental pregnancy is many times more frequent in poor people with low future-time-orientation and low impulse control.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 2, 2015 at 10:28 AM

      • Just a personal observation, but years ago I worked at a county health clinic and interviewed women who either just discovered they were pregnant or found out and went to the health department to get services started. It was rare for an educated, employed woman to come in there for an accidental pregnancy, but when I interviewed them they more often then not indicated that they probably were not going to keep the baby. High School age and below? Kept them every time.

        Mike Street Station

        August 2, 2015 at 12:42 PM

      • Probably, a lot of poor-woman abortions are women who already have a kid, and they realize what a hassle the first one is and don’t want anymore. And they are already collecting welfare so don’t need more babies to qualify for the government dole.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 12:52 PM

      • Post a link to the statistics if you have them. Educated women do impulsive things too (though they are probably likely to get abortions sooner or use Plan B).

        Dave Pinsen

        August 2, 2015 at 2:16 PM

      • 69% of women who have abortions are “economically disadvantraged.” https://www.guttmacher.org/media/presskits/abortion-US/statsandfacts.html

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 5:05 PM

      • Patterns by poverty status were the same across racial and ethnic groups: abortion rates were highest for poor women and decreased with income. Poor white women accounted for 11.7% (95% CI 9.9–13.9%) of abortions in 2008, similar to the 14.1% (95% CI 11.5–17.1%) and 13% (95% CI 10.0–16.8%) accounted for by poor African American and Hispanic women, respectively. Regardless of poverty group, African American women had the highest abortion rates, followed by Hispanic women and then white women. These same patterns were also evident in 2000. Between 2000 and 2008, abortion rates appear to have decreased for all groups with two exceptions: poor white and poor African American women experienced increases in abortion rates, with the former group experiencing the most substantial increase.

        http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Fulltext/2011/06000/Changes_in_Abortion_Rates_Betweeen_2000_and_2008.14.aspx

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 2, 2015 at 5:09 PM

  47. The republicans are having another cuckservative moment. Planed Parenthood is a good idea. It helps deal with stuff cuckservatives dont like. When are the cucks going to learn they can’t have it both ways?

    Way 2 gay

    August 2, 2015 at 8:14 AM

    • You missunderstand “cuckservative.” What it means is campaigning as a conservative, but ruling as a liberal (while attacking actual conservatives). See my earlier Mitch McConnell comment.

      dsgntd_plyr

      August 2, 2015 at 11:25 AM

  48. Lion, I agree materially with your position.

    Two pieces of well-meaning advice on terminology:

    First, don’t argue over whether the fetus is “human” or not; it’s too open to equivocation. It’s clearly human in the sense that it’s not, say, feline. It’s better to argue about whether it is a person or not.

    Second, saying that abortion isn’t murder because murder is by definition unlawful misses the point. In a society where one could legally kill one’s slaves, to kill a slave would not be murder by a legal definition, but it would be morally speaking. And this debate is over proposed changes to the law on moral grounds, so it’s the moral definition of murder that counts.

    Francis

    Francis

    August 2, 2015 at 9:03 AM

  49. OT but relevant to blog themes of class and NYC:

    This article about a “co-living” space in Brooklyn, basically a shared living space for hipster types.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/realestate/the-millennial-commune.html

    What I thought was interesting is how the NYT is silent on demographics of this house residents, which appear to be 100% SWPL/Asian.

    McFly

    August 2, 2015 at 10:24 AM

    • Someone should sue them for disparate impact against undesirable minorities.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 2, 2015 at 10:36 AM

    • McFly, Tell it like it is, Liberals love to pollute their surroundings with their multicultural idea. They sow what they reap. Just don’t ask us to clean up after their mess.

      NYC has a lot of housing projects in several areas of Manhattan, which are now considerable trendy areas.

      Stuyvesant Town, which was formerly a housing complex for WWII White veterans and their families, which later evolved into middle income housing, and now luxury housing for all professionals with a very tiny black demographic (who tend not to be professionals and are there, because of their complaints of racism).

      Liberals did respond to the inequities and cries of black racism in the late 1940s, by building these housing complexes as he “NAM Stuyvesant Town”, which is now infested with crime, urine and feces.

      JS

      August 2, 2015 at 12:46 PM

    • Yep mate, amazing. I’m working today in one of these places. These four students are paying $ 3200 for three tiny bedrooms! My $500 I’d the size of half of this apartment. I don’t see books around, just condoms, beer and liquor. Boys and Girls sharing the apartment. Sick bastard! I’m gonna make $1,200 clean in my pocket by the end of today and that with the cold beer in the fridge is the only good thing about this place. I’m a prole, but in my basement I have like a 500-600 books, plus another 1,000 by my kids and mother. These people are going to Pratt, which is supposed to be good, and all I see is beer and condoms?

      Yakov

      August 2, 2015 at 3:01 PM

      • Now Marijuana is wafing through the building, the parting is getting more serious. I’m done with them, got my money all cash, just like it should be. I don’t understand, the daddy of this brat that got this awesome 29 SEER unit is a Jewish attorney who looks like a smart chap. Is this what he can afford for his daughter? He thinks it’s normal for a girl to share an apartment with guys? He is crazy. The girl may need a few abortions to graduate. Mad, mad world.

        Yakov

        August 2, 2015 at 10:42 PM

      • So Yakov, it’s not only a gentile problem. Jews got the disease of hedonism, like the rest of the goyim.

        JS

        August 3, 2015 at 2:43 PM

      • Notice Stuyvesant Town is a housing complex in a lap of luxury. It was originally for war veterans and middle class working people like teachers, plumbers and firemen. Now the place has a skating rink, outdoor movie screen and cafes, and you paid through the roof for these amenities.

        Scratching my head as to why we have evolved into this? But that’s how civilization evolve and fall, when pleasure becomes an addiction.

        JS

        August 3, 2015 at 2:47 PM

    • >Russell Jackson relinquished a studio six months ago to live in a six-bedroom Pure House apartment with a rotating cast (he presently has three flat mates). “I’m getting exposure to stuff and things that I would not have had sequestered on the Upper West Side,” said Mr. Jackson, a 52-year-old chef.

      Black dude misusing a big word.

      Some things never change, and why on earth would they print that?

      anon

      August 2, 2015 at 4:46 PM

      • Most black men are parasitic self annihilators. They hate their own, but too proud to “sell out”, yet they do anyway. Also, no one likes black women, especially among the slightly better black men, which means further dysgenic breeding is taking place in their community.

        JS

        August 4, 2015 at 12:43 PM

  50. For the sake of argument – I agree that abortion is murder. I’m still for it.

    Having a kid can screw up your whole life (and a bunch of other peoples). Better to not be born than to be thus.

    This seems obvious to me. All these people claiming to be pro-life would get their daughter an abortion in some other country if abortion was illegal, if they could afford it. Admit it, to yourself at least. (Excluding Sarah Palin, which proves how backward she is.)

    It’s fun to get outraged by other people’s *immorality*. But that’s no way to run a country.

    The Republican party is over.

    ModernReader

    August 2, 2015 at 6:08 PM

    • Having a kid can screw up your whole life (and a bunch of other peoples). Better to not be born than to be thus.

      I’ve heard more stories about lifelong regrets from those who’ve had an abortion than from those who’ve chosen to have a child and regret the decision later. A new life almost always changes you for the better.

      All these people claiming to be pro-life would get their daughter an abortion in some other country if abortion was illegal, if they could afford it. Admit it, to yourself at least. (Excluding Sarah Palin, which proves how backward she is.)

      So pro-life people are hypocrites if they kill the child but backward if they don’t. They can’t win, can they?

      imwtk

      August 3, 2015 at 11:37 AM

      • I’ve heard more stories about lifelong regrets from those who’ve had an abortion than from those who’ve chosen to have a child and regret the decision later.

        No one is forcing women to get abortions. Pro choicers aren’t the ones telling other people what to do with their bodies.

        So pro-life people are hypocrites if they kill the child but backward if they don’t.

        If someone has an abortion when they want to make it illegal for everyone else, they are a hypocrite.
        Sara Palin is backwards, regardless of her pro-life views. I’m sorry if this isn’t obvious to you.

        ModernReader

        August 3, 2015 at 9:12 PM

      • No one is forcing women to get abortions.

        Many of them were indeed forced, not at gunpoint usually, but by boyfriends and family members who threatened them with abandonment and withdrawal of support during the most vulnerable time of their lives.

        Pro choicers aren’t the ones telling other people what to do with their bodies.

        The baby does not share a body or any organ with the mother. He/she has an identity and DNA separate from the mother. You and your mother are not one and the same person.

        If someone has an abortion when they want to make it illegal for everyone else, they are a hypocrite.
        I agree.

        Sara Palin is backwards, regardless of her pro-life views. I’m sorry if this isn’t obvious to you.
        It’s not obvious to me what Palin’s “backwardness” in other areas has to do with this discussion.

        imwtk

        August 4, 2015 at 2:37 AM

      • “Many of them were indeed forced, not at gunpoint usually, but by boyfriends and family members who threatened them with abandonment and withdrawal of support during the most vulnerable time of their lives.”

        In other words, there’s widespread agreement that abortion is the RIGHT thing to do under certain circumstances. It’s normal to put pressure on people to do the right thing.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 4, 2015 at 8:26 AM

      • Lion, the path of least resistance (resistant to responsibilities, hard work) may be popular, but that doesn’t make it right. How about doing the right thing in the first place, before the pregnancy happens? Two wrongs don’t make a right.

        imwtk

        August 4, 2015 at 1:48 PM

      • “I’ve heard more stories about lifelong regrets from those who’ve had an abortion than from those who’ve chosen to have a child and regret the decision later. A new life almost always changes you for the better.”

        There was a study done of women who sought abortions but were turned away either for financial or medical reasons. It was called the Turnaway Study.

        Years later it was found nearly 100% were glad to have their baby. Strangely, a significant portion (38%) of the women denied ever having wanted an abortion in the first place.

        Amazingly the nytimes actually reported on this. The study was instigated by pro-abortion researchers.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/magazine/study-women-denied-abortions.html

        slithy toves

        August 4, 2015 at 4:49 PM

  51. Republicans aren’t stupid. They’re trying to survive by justifying their existence to anyone whom they can get to listen. It’s just that they’re existence is so dysfunctional and thus inevitably and presently defeated, in that they exist merely as a decreasingly effective gatekeeper against white nationalism in the face of explicit minority nationalism, that they’re only ploys are now relegated to attacking what hurts the majority of their base. The only reason that this works is because of a sociopolitical flaw in Christianity that holds that they have to care about how their enemies choose to run their lives.

    Republicans have no issues left to defend except what the Left is currently weak on, because, well, the left already won the abortion battle a long time ago. The Republicans lost on abortion, gay marriage, gays in the military, the rest of the over-arching culture war, and on immigration. Notice that they aren’t attacking abortion, per say, but merely one symptom of the industry. And they’re loud and pompous about it, because, well, that’s all that they have in the face of being such persistent and complete losers who exist only to hold their constituency down.

    Their game is falling apart, as well it should, because they are in reality an arm of the Left. We know them by their fruit. Last, it did not have to be this way.

    Jon

    August 4, 2015 at 11:43 AM

  52. “The baby does not share a body or any organ with the mother.”

    Really? Do fetuses incubate in petri dishes or what? They live in the mothers womb. I think women have the right to determine what they do with their uterus. No one else should have any say.

    ModernReader

    August 4, 2015 at 12:24 PM

    • No one else should have any say.

      What about the rights of the father, like the one in this video?

      imwtk

      August 4, 2015 at 1:18 PM

      • Sorry, I didn’t know the youtube video would be automatically embedded by typing its url. But the full
        title is: “6 Minutes With My Sweet Melissa! The last 6 mins w/ my soon 2 B aborted daughter! Planned Parenthood”

        imwtk

        August 4, 2015 at 1:28 PM


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