Lion of the Blogosphere

More about abortion

It has been pointed out that the wording of the GSS question, “abortion for any reason,” causes more people to answer “no.”

In a 2012 Gallup Poll asking if people would like to see Roe v. Wade overturned, 53% said “no” and only 29% said “yes.” The majority is comfortable with the status quo and doesn’t want change.

So overall, the strong anti-abortion position that Republicans are supposed to have in order to win the Republican Primary is a loser position in a national presidential election against a pro-choice Democrat.

Although there are commenters who like to insist that abortion isn’t really that important to who wins elections, I strongly disagree. The fact that there are a lot of single-issue voters on both sides of abortion is what prevents the Republican Party from dominating the white vote. Republicans should theoretically win in white states like Pennsylvania, but they don’t.

I personally am mystified by why white people put being anti-abortion over other more important issues. It’s not like anyone is being forced to have an abortion. I can see why SWPLs/bobos are strongly pro-choice, because an unplanned pregnancy could derail a young woman’s self-actualizing career and cause her to become a single mother with a crappy job and no chance of finding a good husband. Even SWPLs/bobos who are not children-bearing-age women feel strongly about this, because they don’t want this to happen to their sister or daughter. Fear of losing social class is a strong motivator to vote Democratic!

Blacks are actually the smarter voters, because even though they are more pro-life than whites, they nearly unanimously vote Democratic because Democrats support them on the issues that directly matter to blacks, or at least that’s what blacks believe.

The same is true for Hispanics who are the most pro-life demographic (because they are religious Catholics), but they vote Democratic and not Republican. One of the reasons why some pro-life Republicans want more Hispanic immigration is because they think it will tip the balance in favor of pro-life. Whenever they say that Hispanics are “natural conservatives,” they are talking about abortion. But it doesn’t happen. Hispanics vote Democratic despite being pro-life.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

August 18, 2015 at 1:06 pm

Posted in Politics

37 Responses

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  1. You’re deluded if you think any party is going to dominate the white vote any time soon. That’ll take a sea change in our political culture.

    Also what’s wrong with having abortion decided on a state by state level?

    Lloyd Llewellyn

    August 18, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    • Abortion being decided on a state-by-state level is not something that anyone wants. Anti-abortion Republicans want abortion to be illegal everywhere. It’s what they intend to do once they get Roe v. Wade overturned.

      For example, Republicans are pushing the “Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act” which intends to ban abortions after 20 weeks in every state. They don’t want to leave abortion to the states.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 18, 2015 at 1:22 pm

      • That’s the law in most of Europe, and it would be extremely popular here.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/08/02/guess-who-likes-the-gops-20-week-abortion-ban-women/

        Republicans should focus on that, not outright bans.

        J1

        August 18, 2015 at 2:36 pm

      • “Republicans got plenty of heat in the 2012 election for their position on contraception”

        Republicans also did a horrible job of handling this one, and hopefully will improve their game this time. Republicans are mostly protestant; I have never met a protestant (or for that matter a Republican), even hard core pro-lifers (including the Hobby Lobby folks), who had any problem with contraception. Many of them do have a problem with abortion, which can be considered birth control but is by definition not contraception.

        J1

        August 18, 2015 at 2:45 pm

      • Well, some people want this, but very few. Lloyd, for example.

        Most people have no idea what the commerce clause issue is about.

        Francis

        August 18, 2015 at 5:01 pm

  2. “I can see why SWPLs/bobos are strongly pro-choice, because an unplanned pregnancy could derail a young woman’s self-actualizing career and cause her to become a single mother with a crappy job and no chance of finding a good husband.”

    Abortion is about killing the kid, not avoiding parenthood. An ambitious SWPL chick could give her baby up for adoption and thereby avoid single parenthood. The the thing is little miss SWPL chick would have to go to work each day and have coworkers see her pregnant and ask her all kinds of well intended questions about the baby etc., at which point she would have to deal with realities like she didn’t manage to avoid getting pregnant, and no the guy was not willing to marry her either because she was sleeping with someone she doesn’t think is good enough for her or he doesn’t think she is good enough for him, and on and on.

    It is about being seen as a stupid, undesirable loser.

    not too late

    August 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    • Good point.

      Lowe

      August 18, 2015 at 9:39 pm

    • The costs of being pregnant go far beyond what you’ve described.

      Lloyd Llewellyn

      August 19, 2015 at 11:55 am

  3. “I personally am mystified by why white people put being anti-abortion over other more important issues.”

    Whites who are against abortion have more children and teach their kids their values. Even if some kids grow up to be pro abortion, the difference in birthrates still keeps the anti vs. pro balance about even.

    not too late

    August 18, 2015 at 2:22 pm

  4. Hispanics are not pro life.

    wolf

    August 18, 2015 at 2:39 pm

  5. Life begins at conception, of course. But when does Human life begin?

    jef

    August 18, 2015 at 3:53 pm

    • Right, dead spermatozoon meets dead ovum; life ensues.

      Titus

      August 19, 2015 at 3:48 pm

  6. Although there are commenters who like to insist that abortion isn’t really that important to who wins elections, I strongly disagree. The fact that there are a lot of single-issue voters on both sides of abortion is what prevents the Republican Party from dominating the white vote. Republicans should theoretically win in white states like Pennsylvania, but they don’t.

    The white swing vote in places like Pennsylvania isn’t comprised of pro-abortion single issue voters. It’s comprised of working class types who used to be in unions and solid Democrats. They’re often from Catholic and relatively religious backgrounds and aren’t very pro-abortion, if at all.

    Tom

    August 18, 2015 at 4:16 pm

  7. “Blacks are actually the smarter voters”

    shocking

    rivelino

    August 18, 2015 at 4:30 pm

  8. Affluent women have always had access to abortion, even prior to Roe V, Wade. They could travel to a state where it was legal, or to another country, or get a friendly doctor (maybe one with whom Daddy plays golf at the country club) to certify that the pregnancy was a threat to the mother’s life (yeah, sure).

    Lower class breeding is as much an issue as immigration, yet many Republicans who are against our current open borders idiocy don’t realize. Yet many lower class women really don’t want all those babies – they just don’t have ready access to abortion and contraceptive services. Studies have shown that acess to contraception at an early age reduces unwanted births and poverty rates. Poor women have about five times more abortions than rich women, even though their sex lives are remarkably similar. Why is this? The affluent women have better access to contraception and know how to use it. Colorado achieved a 42% reduction in the rate of teenage pregnancy by giving these women free IUD’s and implantable contraceptives. This doesn’t mean that the government is forcing women not to have babies – it’s simply giving them the choice, a choice that affluent women have always had.

    Lower class breeding produces children who grow up in poverty and who have little chance or realizing the “American Dream,’ whatever that is; plus, the costs to society are enormous, But you won’t hear even Donald Trump mention it. The best way to do something about it is to support free, readily available contraception and abortion for all.

    Black Death

    August 18, 2015 at 4:42 pm

  9. Is there any country in the world that has gone from legalized abortion to banning the practice?

    Vince

    August 18, 2015 at 4:44 pm

    • Romania under Ceaucescu did because Romania started running out of babies. Abortion was legalized in Iran in 1977 under the Shah. A few years later the Mullahs took over and made it illegal again.

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 19, 2015 at 8:56 am

  10. I personally am mystified by why white people put being anti-abortion over other more important issues.

    I am mystified about how you can be mystified. Literally, I Do. Not. Understand.

    How can a human being can be SO SO SO in favour of being able to kill one’s child as to place ABORTION RIGHTS above all other issues? I really, really, REALLY don’t get it. And this is why, by the way, I just don’t believe that there are very many pro-choice single-issue voters. It’s so unfathomable to me that I can’t believe it.

    Sure, I can believe that there are quite a few people who are vaguely pro-choice in general. But what I don’t understand is pro-choicers being equally as passionate as pro-lifers. The pro-life passion is dirt easy to understand, and I just don’t know what you mean by claiming to be “mystified”, Lion. But why on EARTH is anyone SO pro-abortion as to make that their number-one issue? What is WRONG with such a person? It boggles the mind.

    Samson J.

    August 18, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    • Because most people’s position on abortion has nothing to do with actual abortion. Most pro-Choice people are signalling that a woman’s inherent right to self-actualization trumps anything and everything else, especially some biological handicap that men don’t have. Most educated pro-choice people I know are not pro-abortion, and tend to find the idea kind of repugnant if you push them on it. Most of them will never confront that decision in their own personal lives. But they are such ideologues in the cause of feminism that they are far more offended by the idea of a natural handicap that keeps women from achieving at the same rate as men than they are by killing a fetus.

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 19, 2015 at 8:53 am

    • Pro-choice on the left is a huge issue. If you are thinking of running for office on the left and are pro-life, you will get hounded out.

      I think it is easier to run for state-wide office as a pro-choice R (alaska and new england) than pro-life D (manchin, donnelly, and casey are not really pro-life hardliners – they pay lip service to it).

      uatu

      August 19, 2015 at 1:10 pm

  11. Whenever they say that Hispanics are “natural conservatives,” they are talking about abortion. But it doesn’t happen. Hispanics vote Democratic despite being pro-life.

    So get some pro-life Democrats.

    Samson J.

    August 18, 2015 at 4:57 pm

  12. Republicans should push “safe, legal but rare.” Abortion should be available for those in dire need and, sadly, people who can’t afford to have children. Republicans can use market forces—immigration and fair trade—to reduce wealth inequality. That’s the winning position. Not that you are FOR abortion, because who is? But that you want to minimize the need.

    Dave

    August 18, 2015 at 5:16 pm

  13. It’s because besides the baby-killing aspect, being stridently or cavalierly in favor of abortion, talking about it as if it is normal healthcare, and wielding it as a feminist rhetorical weapon is disgusting and degrades our civilization. At the very least, those who are so profoundly stupid or dishonest that they insist the moment at which a human becomes a human is simply one moment later than whenever it is that they would like people to be able to have an abortion (preferrably funded by the public), should be opposed on the principle that being a man-hating bitch with an axe to grind against western civilization doesn’t mean one gets to simply pretend human life is a non-issue here. If it’s not worth opposing scummy feminists who self-righteously boost abortion because “it’s their body,” it’s not worth engaging in any adversarial dialogue whatsoever, with anyone.

    Perturabo

    August 18, 2015 at 6:24 pm

  14. LotB: Whenever they say that Hispanics are “natural conservatives,” they are talking about abortion.

    Yep. Once upon a time, there were a few conservative Hispanic Republicans – about a quarter-of-a-million of them in Miami – all Cubans. But that was thirty years ago; now they’re all dead and none of their descendants vote Republican. But the stupid party still thinks they do.

    E. Rekshun

    August 18, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    • Most of the acculturated heirs of the old guards in Miami, have left for SWPLdom pastures. The current crop of Cubanos are mostly those of recent immigrants, 2nd generation being the furthest, who are known for their extravagance and flamboyance, or wannabe, which means they are very much prole, in their status signaling.

      JS

      August 19, 2015 at 8:52 pm

  15. That’s because Christianity is inflexible. They are trying to derive laws from the Bible without proper tools and tradition. As I’ve said already, allowing early term abortion when mother’s physical or psychological health is in danger has the potential of being an acceptable compromise. This is the Orthodox Jewish position that I hold. We can interpret the ‘psychological health’ somewhat broadly.

    Yakov

    August 18, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    • I’ve misspoken – there is no limit on the term of pregnancy when mother’s physical or mental health is in danger. Just to keep things accurate.

      Yakov

      August 18, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    • Can we start the compromise with the morning after pill?

      jef

      August 18, 2015 at 10:39 pm

      • I don’t know what’s been decided regarding it. Is it allowed or not?

        Yakov

        August 19, 2015 at 2:39 pm

  16. I used to buy Lion’s argument about the poor unwed life’s being Ruined without abortion, totally bought it. But since then I have moved to flyover and witnessed a lot of shocking (to me) success stories. Of girls who stupidly went ahead and had kids, biracial even, and later managed to marry really good guys who accepted their kids, and then they had more. Then they manage to get back into the workforce. Some became influential lawyers while somehow taking care of 2-3 kids….Against all the common wisdom. Lion I think the big problem is NYC where you are.

    There is far more faith, hope and charity, when you are away from the two coasts.

    Mrs Stitch

    August 19, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    • Mrs Stitch, you are of course generally correct. I have found that almost everyone who I have talked to who supports abortion is someone who is, on unrelated subjects, unaware of how good life is to so many people. I am not sure if they suffer more from jealous feelings (for example, a desire to know that those who had pleasant fertile sex later had to undergo subsequent unpleasantness) or from willful ignorance. Pro-abortion fanatics and even the low energy un-empathetic pro-choice losers of the world simply have no idea of how powerful the life force is. This is knowledge that religious Jews, orthodox Catholics, and honest Evangelicals share with intelligent and empathetic agnostics and intelligent and empathetic atheists. I can understand why those who lack this knowledge feel no shame at being pro-choice, but understanding is not approval. From the point of view of a human being who cares about other human beings enough to have thought through the consequences, there is no excuse for being “pro-choice”.

      howitzer daniel

      August 19, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    • swpl guys who go to the gym typically don’t marry women with kids.

      GM

      August 19, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    • While there may be “more faith, hope, and charity” in flyover country, emphasis on the (delusional) hope, American society already has an oversupply of fatherless children and again this is more of the conservative, low future time oriented attitude that furthers human misery: stepchildren are anywhere from 40-100 times more likely to be murdered by their stepfathers than are children living with biological parents. They are also anywhere from 600-1000 times more likely to be abused in some way – sexually, physically, emotionally.

      I’m afraid the “problem” you see is one of your own perception. It’s simply not supported by the data.

      Viscount Douchenozzlé

      August 20, 2015 at 1:54 pm

      • There is no oversupply of fatherless children; there is an oversupply of inadequate single mothers who refuse to adopt out under any circumstances. That oversupply was created in large part by eloquent but deceptive words from cold-hearted liberals who incessantly praise female choice. As a consequence, millions of fertile women who are neither intellectually nor morally bright actually believe they have a legitimate power over the life and death of their baby, and many foolish bottom feeder males listlessly stand by as their sons or daughters wind up, after a few minutes of intense pain or indiscriminate suffering, as bloody pulps in some metal refuse contraption in an abortuary. The problem commenter V-D- chose to discuss is the “boyfriend problem” (the common problem that arises when a woman fathers a child or children with one or more males, then later takes on a subsequent sexual partner, who evilly chooses to be cruel or murderous towards the woman’s child or children from the earlier male or males). That problem would be more effectively addressed in a pro-life society than it is in the non-pro-life society we currently live in.

        howitzer daniel

        August 20, 2015 at 8:55 pm

      • Ah, but see, it won’t be addressed in a conservative, pro-life society, because after all, how dare the state interfere with a mother’s rights over her children.

        Viscount Douchenozzlé

        August 21, 2015 at 2:57 pm

      • to V-D at 2-57… if moral and intellectual degeneration is our future, you may be accurately predicting the future. That being said, unless you are willing to discuss in detail the Book of Revelation or the prophecies of Moses – discussions not likely to be successfully carried out in blog comment threads, we will have to agree to disagree on whether moral and intellectual degeneration is, or is not, our immediate or postponed future.

        howitzer daniel

        August 21, 2015 at 9:58 pm

  17. […] Lion has a good point about Abortion: […]


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