Lion of the Blogosphere

School zoning: when too much good news is bad news

There’s a NY Times article today, Race and Class Collide in a Plan for Two Brooklyn Schools.

The gentrification of the “Dumbo” area of Brooklyn was good news for P.S. 8. (New York City calls its grades K-5 schools P.S. schools). The school became predominately SWPL and thus a safe place for white parents (as well as SWPLfied Asians) to send their precious children.

But too much of a good thing is now a bad thing because the school now has too many children for the size of the building. The city’s solution? Send some of children now zoned for P.S. 8 to nearby P.S. 307 that primarily draws students from the housing projects.

Not surprisingly, the SWPL parents who thought they were zoned for a free and safe public school are outraged. But somewhat surprisingly, the parents in the projects don’t want a bunch of white kids invading their school either!

Some people will probably point out the hypocrisy of these parents who probably voted for Obama and De Blasio but now suddenly become racists when their own kids are involved. However, I will point out to my readers, again, that people are completely capable of sincerely believing in mutually contradictory things because people just aren’t that logical.

If there isn’t room in P.S. 8, there isn’t room, so some parents and their children are probably screwed. This is why it sucks to live in New York City if you have children and are too poor to afford quality private education.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

September 23, 2015 at 1:20 pm

64 Responses

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  1. In my state, portable classrooms (trailer-like) crop up in the school parking lots and never disappear. They are built by the vocational students studying construction. Later, a new larger, mall-like school is built when the board complains of the cramped school and a massive tax increase is approved.


    September 23, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    • There are plenty of those in NYC.


      September 23, 2015 at 8:24 pm

  2. “But somewhat surprisingly, the parents in the projects don’t want a bunch of white kids invading their school either!”

    Why is that surprising? People like their own, for the same reasons they show preference for their own families over the wider community. And everyone knows that the needs of students of various races differ so much that mixed schooling is just asking for a blood bath. Black parents and administrators know full well that, once the white and Oriental parents and administrators get in, they’ll campaign for the interests of their own students, teachers and administrators. Which is fine, as long as they’re not doing it in their schools.

    This, of course, ignores the complicating factors of Hispanics and immigrants. But honestly, is this not widely known? Believe it or not, colored people actually like each other and themselves.


    September 23, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    • I did write it was “somewhat” surprising and not “totally shockingly surprising.” Yes, what you say is true.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 23, 2015 at 2:32 pm

      • Yeah, my comment was kind of snotty, in large part because you of all people would get it. And you do.


        September 23, 2015 at 2:34 pm

  3. I wonder how much your property value drops when they redraw the school district so your house lands in the wrong school district. That has to hurt. Here in Montgomery County, Maryland identical modest homes nearby on opposite sides of certain school district lines (same builder and housing development) could go for $300K or $550K depending.

    Considering how certain residents could suddenly face a brutal financial hit, they should be compensated if that happens.


    September 23, 2015 at 2:22 pm

    • Where I live, the school district explicitly states that they don’t guarantee that any home address will continually remain within the same school boundary. So good luck, take your chances, but no compensation for you!

      And where would that compensation come from? Most people regard property taxes as quite high enough already.


      September 23, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    • they should be compensated if that happens

      Umm, no they shouldn’t


      September 23, 2015 at 5:06 pm

      • Typical lefty, no explanation.


        September 24, 2015 at 9:52 am

  4. That’s correct, most people are irrational or illogical, when it comes to their political affiliation and ideologies.

    Living in NYC also sucks, if you don’t have a spacious apartment with an easy access to Manhattan, and/or if you live in close proximity to NAMs.

    I believe in a complete uproot of individuals, now that post scarcity and globalization, have replaced frivolous consumption and false provincialism. Ex. There isn’t anything exceptional about NYC, that one needs to live there, except for inflated status reasons.


    September 23, 2015 at 2:31 pm

    • Besides the fact that you make well over the median salary nationwide, and many of the jobs can be interesting. Having ceaseless high-end restaurants and bars is nice when you come to down for a weekend jaunt, but is not necessary when living here long term.

      But yes, living in NYC sucks. Hell, I live in a nice part of Westchester with an easy train commute to GCT, and life still isn’t that great.


      September 23, 2015 at 2:51 pm

      • Now that average person next to you, has been significantly dumb downed, and you, being a LoftB reader, the incentive to remain in this country becomes less attractive, despite all the great amenities you can find in your surrounding environs.

        When I was in NYC, I was able to get dates with women, but eventually balked on most of them, because they are vapid zombies, who don’t know anything besides their make work career, eating out and a romp at someone’s Manhattan apartment. The lack of a patriarchal supervision of our childlike women in our big cities, has devastating effects, and will be this country’s undoing. This is different from the natural sensuality that one finds with women from the Romance Language nations.


        September 23, 2015 at 8:02 pm

      • I can’t speak for anyone else, but I still love Brooklyn. If you live in NYC, every weekend can be a staycation if you plan it right. And yes, that means spending some money. But if you don’t have to stay at a hotel or take a flight or Amtrak to get there that lowers the cost of a lot. And not everything to do here is outrageously expensive. It doesn’t cost much to take a ride on the Staten island Ferry, or as JS would probably call it “The Guido Boat!”


        September 23, 2015 at 8:32 pm

      • “It doesn’t cost much to take a ride on the Staten island Ferry”

        No thanks, I’d rather stay in my apartment.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 23, 2015 at 8:35 pm

      • Come to think of it, why couldn’t the Speedo company make a line of swimwear for the men in Staten Island?
        It could be called the Guido Speedo! It could also have a picture of a pizza where the speedo would, ahem…..”bulge.” The message sent would be “what I’ve got is more enjoyable than pizza.” Probably too crude for the men on this blog (although E. Rekshun seems to enjoy getting a little off-color sometimes) , but the guys on the Jersey Shore TV show would love it!


        September 23, 2015 at 8:38 pm

      • E.Rekshun sounds like a cool name for an underwear line for women who want to get naughty!


        September 23, 2015 at 9:04 pm

    • “There isn’t anything exceptional about NYC, that one needs to live there, except for inflated status Reasons.”

      That’s why I live here. This place sucks except for my office gig and all the 9s and 10s walking around.

      Robert Barmoni

      September 23, 2015 at 9:10 pm

      • 9s and 10s walking around? Maybe during pre-2008 financial crisis, Wall St Crash. Today, it’s more like 6s and 7s.


        September 24, 2015 at 9:36 am

      • Yes, my many business trips to NYC over the years illustrated the delightful, well-dressed eye candy walking around Manhattan, but I’ll say the most beautiful women in the world are at the Miami International Airport (exotic) and the University of Florida (young and nubile).

        E. Rekshun

        September 24, 2015 at 10:53 am

      • E.Rekshun – You’ll be quite disappointed with the quality of women in NYC today. Many of them are poorly dressed, but of course, physical features are the most important to you, and in no way, stunning like the women in Florida and in the Southwest. I’ve been to the night scene in San Diego, and plenty of attractive women at the bars and clubs (as they say, they only come out at night), and No NAMs, unlike NYC, with average looking ladies, in both the diurnal and nocturnal scene, who think they’re supermodel quality with liberal views. And the cheerleader effect is the most severe in the Big Apple, just because of the sheer amount of women living here.


        September 25, 2015 at 9:37 am

      • I think the girls in Arizona are hotter, but that could just be because I was raised in Staten Island and developed prole tastes in women.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 25, 2015 at 9:54 am

      • You’d be quite unsurprised to find out, that a lot of the attractive women in NYC, are from elsewhere far away, like Europe and places like the Southwest, who are only visiting the city.

        I usually don’t get flirts with most of the women in NYC, but on occasion, a very attractive lady smiles, and there were a few times where I engaged them, to find out they were European in origin or visiting from the other states.


        September 25, 2015 at 10:10 am

      • @LotB: I was raised in Staten Island and developed prole tastes in women.

        Prole women are low maintenance and can be fun for the short-term, but they often smoke and sport tattoos.

        E. Rekshun

        September 25, 2015 at 6:14 pm

  5. “But somewhat surprisingly, the parents in the projects don’t want a bunch of white kids invading their school either!”

    Not surprising to me. The school I attended growing up had been the clolored school. When it was desegregated (long before I was born) blacks in the area protested. They didn’t want to share the school with whites. They wanted it all to themselves. Contrast that with the way the integration story is usually told.

    “Some people will probably point out that hypocrisy of these parents

    As well they should.

    “people are completely capable of sincerely believing in mutually contradictory things because people just aren’t that logical.”

    It’s easy for SWPLs to be self-righteous and “enlightened” when it’s not their ox being gored. This is one of the reasons I make the point that liberals aren’t liberals because they’re smart but because of circumstances. Regardless, it galls me that liberals can feel so smug for supporting integration that sends other people’s children to a school they’d never send their own. Not that I think they should send their children to school in the ghetto. Rather, I think they should acknowledge the realities and stop spouting liberal nonsense.


    September 23, 2015 at 3:10 pm

  6. I live in a small city (80,000) in western Canada. The person in the office next to me is from NYC. One of the main reasons they moved was because of schools. My town isn’t sufficiently enriched to have the type of problems talked about in this article. However there are somewhat poorer and better off areas of town. I guess white trash tend to live in the poorer areas.


    September 23, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    • Regina? Saskatoon? Lethbridge? Red Deer? Medicine Hat?

      Half Canadian

      September 24, 2015 at 12:31 pm

      • This video on Saskatoon, seems like a welcome call for those Brooklyn New Yorkers, who want to get away from the poor racial minorities, without spending much. Brooklyn Heights was once a boring nook, before those invaders settled into the neighborhood, where cafes and restaurants then followed.

        One needs to get in touch with the current mayor of Saskatoon (this video features the former mayor, Don Atchison), and tell him that he will be getting some company from Brooklyn, NYC.

        All you Canadians who read LoftB, should cherish it. You won’t find another, where someone from NYC is telling you guys that Saskatoon should be a new home for New Yorkers.


        September 24, 2015 at 1:16 pm

      • “Regina? Saskatoon? Lethbridge? Red Deer? Medicine Hat?”

        I’d rather not say exactly where.


        September 24, 2015 at 7:24 pm

      • Why do you need to withhold the location, Rosenmop?

        Winnipeg is rated as the most dangerous city in Canada, which is a joke. Yes, there is a lot White trash in Winnipeg, but I’ll take the city over any American prolehood in the East Coast or Midwest or a pretentious SWPLhood.


        September 25, 2015 at 9:43 am

  7. Your article made me look up my old school PS10 in Park Slope. Wow, it’s now 41% white. In 1994, my brother and I were seemingly the only white students in the school.


    September 23, 2015 at 5:59 pm

  8. If they are too poor to afford quality private education for their children then they are not true swpls. A good indicator of true swpl status is if any leftist policy affects you personally, or at least enough to be pissed off about it. Their day of reckoning has come. There are too many of these posers already and its time for a flush out. Most of them will move back to Kansas. Others will take a slow, sad walk on the prole side.


    September 23, 2015 at 7:11 pm

    • they can enjoy their new existence as “faggot striver poors”


      September 23, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    • Lion has the term, Bobo, who are the consummate SWPLs, and they live in the wealthiest areas of Manhattan. I guess Brooklyn Bobos are the poor man’s SWPLs, because most of them were priced out from the “city”.


      September 23, 2015 at 8:24 pm

      • This is true. And even a failed Brooklyn SWPL could still move home and be a Kansas Bobo or even a Low TOOS under the right status circumstances.

        I’ve seen this several times where a rich flyover kid moves out to NY or LA to pursue some total pipe-dream like being a model or film director. They live the SWPL life throughout their 20’s until they run out of life mulligans and then move back home and slide back into a comfortably upper/upper middle class existence.


        September 23, 2015 at 9:04 pm

      • The problem with Meriprolestan, is its overall 3rd world, sh*thole status. Bad food, boring and just bad overall. I’ve met all these flyover transplants from Middle America who now live Park Slope, and will never return to their former nooks where they come from, because there’s no life there.


        September 24, 2015 at 9:40 am

      • @ JS –

        How do you know they’ll never return to flyover? With age, the charms of New York City decline whereas the importance of space, comfort and safety rise.


        September 24, 2015 at 7:14 pm

      • Nebbish – They said they would never return. Safety might be the only reason, for them to head back to Middle America, so you are correct on this point. Flyover remains to be a remnant wasteland of industrialism.


        September 25, 2015 at 10:16 am

    • Take a walk of the prole side? Does this mean that the colored girls will go “do to do, do to do, to do , do….” Sorry BTDT, I’m a Lou Reed fan!


      September 23, 2015 at 8:26 pm

      • It sure does. That song ran through my head as I wrote it.


        September 23, 2015 at 8:50 pm

      • Caitlyn came from Miami, FLA / Decathleted her way across the USA / Plucked her eyebrows on the way / Shaved her legs and then he was a she


        September 24, 2015 at 2:58 am

      • “In the back room she was everybody’s darling. But she never lost her head even when she was giving…………..”

        ……..oh, never mind!


        September 25, 2015 at 9:45 pm

  9. Maybe I am cynical but it seems that comments are usually not allowed on stories like this that illustrate the conflict between what liberals say and do. The NYT is one of the worst offenders but it happens across the board.


    September 23, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    • I noticed that too! I was sort of dying to read NY Times comments.


      September 23, 2015 at 9:04 pm

  10. But somewhat surprisingly, the parents in the projects don’t want a bunch of white kids invading their school either!

    This is non sequitur, because the entire liberal diatribe, is all about accommodating NAMs, at the expense of proles, and not SWPLs.


    September 23, 2015 at 7:42 pm

  11. The black school should offer a gifted program. Problem solved.

    My mom began teaching in the 1960s. Back then, she claims, “gifted” kids made up half the classroom. Once the environmentalists got a foothold (“babies are pollution!”) that segment quickly shrank to a teeny fraction of any classroom.

    Funny how the times doesn’t acknowledge that switching your kid from a 70% proficiency rate school to a 12% proficiency rate would be nothing short of insane.

    I wonder where the reporters send their kids to school?

    slithy toves

    September 23, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    • I read an article last year (maybe in Slate) about a school district that faced problems because their gifted program was full of white kids (in an integrated school). The solution was to declare every student was potentially “gifted” and replace the entry tests with a lottery all children could enter. Problem solved.


      September 23, 2015 at 10:17 pm

      • Our schools are heavily Asian so most gifted classrooms are filled with them. However, the number of identified gifted kids rarely comes out perfectly even to fill the exact number of seats available but all identified students must be served. So there are the filler kids. For example, there are 50 identified 4th grade kids, and there can be no more than 22 kids in a class. That makes 66 seats. So, the 16 filler kids will be distributed among the three gifted classes. Enter the brighter better behaved blacks, whites and hispanics. Now the neighborhood has so few blacks and hispanics that most of those filler kids are white. Hilariously, my friend’s wiggly ADD very big for his age son was a filler kid. The teacher was used to ultra compliant little Asian kids and then there was this big white boy tapping his pencil and wiggling and looking out the window, etc. Oh, and he has a super loud voice and loves to talk and tell stories. He is very creative, etc. He did fine, but it irked that teacher no end to have to deal with a real boy. So funny.

        not too late

        September 27, 2015 at 7:53 pm

      • Asians kids are gifted, in what way???


        September 28, 2015 at 10:28 am

  12. Living in NYC is about its exceptional financial opportunities, which you don’t have while tanning your hide on a beach in Florida. This is so obvious, but you keep beating this dead horse. Why?

    Also, NYC is not America – it’s a world all by itself, so stop comparing and complaining. Judge this place for what it’s about – OPPORTUNITY, and it’s a great place.


    September 23, 2015 at 8:50 pm

    • Most people in NYC don’t have access to exceptional financial opportunities. They may make more at their crappy cubicle jobs than they would in similar jobs elsewhere, but the increased cost of living and higher taxes eat up the increased income. The only people for whom it is actually worth it to live in NYC work in finance or have high-level (not entry level) jobs in media, the arts or fashion.


      September 24, 2015 at 7:20 pm

      • Not true. Everything you do in this city can be on a completely different scale. Most people are sheep to be fleeced, you are right about that.


        September 25, 2015 at 6:44 pm

  13. I live in the heart of SWPLtopia. Trust me, those parents are more elitist than they are racist. If their children were forced to go to school in West Virginia they would be just as outraged. Meanwhile, if their children had to go to school with the sons and daughters of Latin American and African foreign dignitaries, they would be less outraged.

    SWPL parents don’t make a distinction between ghetto blacks, barrio Latinos, and trailer Whites. They are all equally undesirable to SWPLs.


    September 23, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    • Whew, I was worried there for a second.


      September 24, 2015 at 3:00 am

    • The only distinction is in public displays of attitude. They will pretend not to hate ghetto blacks and barrio Latinos even as they make every effort to avoid associating with them (for good, non-racist reasons, of course, since they loooooove “diversity” at least in principle). Meanwhile, they will never conceal their hate for prole whites – indeed, they will aggressively assert it without any prior prompting.


      September 24, 2015 at 2:07 pm

  14. These endless fights are very late twentieth century American. And I suppose early twenty-first century American.

    If we are to keep public schools at all, there should be one school district, which consists of the entire state, and any parent can apply to send their children to any school district in the state. They would have to pay the travel and other living expenses. If a school gets more applicants than it could handle, there would be a lottery to determine which ones it takes in, and those left out go to their second choice. Applications are monitored, with schools getting tons of applicants getting more funding and schools getting very few getting triaged.

    Somewhat outside this system, there will be specialized schools, for students talented in various skills, where the applications would be evaluated and not done by lottery; and schools for children that consistently disrupt class and prey on other children, that would essentially be jails with some instruction. You would also probably need schools for children with genuine disabilities.

    I figure will we get this a little bit after we get the income guarantee.


    September 24, 2015 at 12:07 am

    • The UPK system in NYC kind of works like this. It’s basically a voucher system without being called such. In fact I’m amazed liberals haven’t made a stink about it like they do other voucher systems.

      A parents can select any UPK program in the city for their child- religious, private, or public, and the city pays for it while the parent is responsible for transportation (though for special ed prek, the city provide bus service).

      slithy toves

      September 24, 2015 at 10:25 am

  15. This is the heart of an argument I have with my SWPL friends constantly about the future of urban development. Leftist urbanophiles all over the country have an obsession with the “back to the city” movement and a belief that the future is going to see massive population growth in cities at the expense of suburbs. The usual “proof” is that many cities saw a population gain for the first time in decades between the 2000 and 2010 census figures. What they never seem to acknowledge is that cities are solely reaping, what I call, the “demographic dividend” from millennials. To elaborate, the American population distribution has lots of young people in it without children, and young people without children are the ones most attracted to urban environments. Once the millenials get older, their needs and preferences will change, so many of them will move out of the cities and into the suburbs.

    In the next 10 years, urban population gains are going to turn around because millenials will get older and have children. Those millennials are going to run up against problems regarding safety, space, and schools that are better provided by more SWPL friendly suburbs. Retrofitting suburbia to make it more urban (but without certain chronic dysfunctions) is a really trend in real estate development right now. As long as American cities have proportionately high NAM populations, they will not be able to support large populations of white and Asian families because most middle class and above families cannot afford to send multiple children to private school.


    September 24, 2015 at 12:42 am

    • A trend of millennials moving to the suburbs? Most of them want to stay in the urban areas, and I’m talking about those who are in their 30s. I don’t see them heading back to the burbs, only losers without money, will be forced to live in them.

      West Coast Cities are indeed the most SWPL friendly with significantly lower NAM populations, so why are all the idiots still hugging the Northeast, remains a good question?

      San Diego is one of the nicer cities, yet without much urban activity, that one finds in San Francisco or Los Angeles. This could all change, if they was a colonization by the East Coast Carpetbaggers.


      September 24, 2015 at 10:05 am

    • “Back to the cities” is real, and some of that can be seen by lots of red state commentators trying to deny that it is occurring. Though “dump the car” might be a better description. Then again many of the suburbanites and flyover people moving to the cities make absurd efforts to hang on to their cars.

      Cars are becoming more of a pain to own and operate because the increased bureaucracy in all areas of American life hits them too, they are police magnets, population increase (through immigration) means more drivers and more bad drivers on the road, and they get expensive if the cost of gas goes up, its low now, but the long term trend is likely up. This limits the attractiveness of the suburbs, which were designed at the time in the expectation of mass ownership of cheap cars using cheap fuel. Automated cars and cheap taxis (Uber/ Lyft) though would solve alot of these issues if they actually happen.

      There is a physical limit of how many people live in central cities, and you can’t fit alot of people in central cities or have people afford to live there if you also are going to use the buildings to let wealthy foreigners to launder money/ park their money in a safe haven. Manhattan once had 2.5 million people,but this was with 1 million people living on the Lower East Side, in conditions that are illegal today. If you are not going to have such a slum, it has a population ceiling of about its current population. You might fit an additional million in the outer boroughs, max.

      Both the white flight to the suburbs, and the high black-on-white crime that prompted it, were aftershocks of the 1960s Civil Rights movement. They both now seem like one-offs.

      Probably you are just not going to see the sort of population churn in the future that happened in the US in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.


      September 24, 2015 at 11:05 am

    • thefanofbadteams is absolutely right. no one wants to send their kids to school with nams because they’re dumb and behave badly. people will live in the cities when they’re young and single. once they have kids they might move to an area that’s been gentrified. otherwise, they’ll move out of the cities. that’s the way it’s been for 50 years. JS and Ed can argue that the laws of physics have suddenly changed. But they haven’t.


      September 24, 2015 at 5:01 pm

      • What do you mean by moving to an area that is gentrified, that isn’t a major urban area? People only move to nice suburbs, for those who can afford it.


        September 24, 2015 at 6:09 pm

  16. So the leonine point is, SWPLs are not just hypocrites but irrational hypocrites? I enjoy that since they pride themselves on being intelligent and principled, in contrast with Republicans (who are stupid).


    September 24, 2015 at 3:08 am

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