Lion of the Blogosphere

Jeb Bush on Trump’s tax plan

Jeb Bush has been saying that his tax plan is better than Trump’s plan because it doesn’t add as much to the budget deficit.

Trump basically steals Jeb’s tax-cuts-for-the-rich tax plan, puts it on steroids by increasing the amount of the tax cuts, and now Jeb has to say that Trump is cutting too much tax while Jeb himself is cutting just the right amount of tax.

I think that Bernie Sanders has the best tax plan of any candidate. Too bad we can’t join Bernie Sanders’ tax plan to Donald Trump’s immigration plan.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

September 30, 2015 at EST pm

Posted in Politics, Taxes

65 Responses

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  1. Jeb is still in the race?

    The Undiscovered Jew

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • haha nailed it.

      rivelino

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • You assume I was joking?

      The Undiscovered Jew

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  2. What Trump’s plan really needs is to add another bracket (and estate tax) for billionaires. Why should billionaires be in the same bracket as those making 300K?

    destructure

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • There should also be a bracket for those making $50-100K. I’d actually prefer there taxes be lowered than those making 30K and down.

      fakeemail

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  3. Sanders’ stance on immigration is better than Billary’s stance on immigration.

    clockwerk kinda-orange

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • I should vote for Sanders in the primary.

      I want neither a Bush nor a Clinton.

      I would vote for anyone over a Bush or a Clinton.

      Right now, Bush looks like he has no chance, so that means it is time to vote against Clinton.

      not too late

      October 1, 2015 at EST am

  4. Sovereign Man on the Trump Plan:

    His tax plan is bold, aiming to drastically simplify the tax code and reduce the number of individual income tax brackets down to four.

    He aims to cut taxes for all individuals who earn less than $25,000 dollars, and reduce the top marginal rate to 25% for those earning more than $150,000.

    The corporate tax rate would also be cut to 15%, down from a marginal rate as high as 38%.

    The Internet is now abuzz with economists analyzing Mr. Trump’s proposals, assessing the economic impact and making grandiose calculations on whether or not they would be “revenue neutral”.

    Criticism already abounds with many saying that his tax plan would vanquish overall tax revenue by many trillions of dollars, leaving the Land of the Free in an even deeper financial hole.

    These arguments and discussions are entirely misplaced.

    According to government data that I retrieved this morning from whitehouse.gov, since World War II, tax revenue as a percentage of GDP has averaged 17.2%, with very minimal deviation.

    Over that period, tax rates have been all over the place.

    The top marginal tax rate has been as low as 28% in the 1980s and as high as 94% right at the end of WWII.

    Meanwhile, over the course of US history, the top corporate tax rate has been as low as 1% and as high as 53%.

    And yet in all this time, despite enormous variations in tax rates, overall tax revenue as a percentage of GDP has barely budged.

    If you think about the economy as a giant pie, this means that the government’s slice of that pie is almost invariably between 17% and 18%, regardless of how high or how low they set tax rates.

    So any discussion about whether Mr. Trump’s proposal will affect overall tax revenue is completely pointless.

    Because seven decades of historical data show that his tax proposal won’t affect the government’s piece of the pie at all.

    You’d think that with such incontrovertible historical data, the conversation would turn to the obvious question: how does one make the pie bigger?

    Looking back at the data, slashing tax rates can make a big difference.

    In 1988 when the US government restructured its tax code, they eliminated several tax brackets and cut both corporate and individual tax rates.

    Yet real GDP growth doubled.

    Human nature is a funny thing. We all tend to work a little harder if we know there’s a brighter light at the end of the tunnel. So slashing taxes is a nice start.

    But there are much larger elements in that economic growth recipe.

    It’s hard to make a bigger pie when you’ve got a national debt of $19 trillion; when you spend almost as much money on interest than on ‘defense’; and when you blow nearly the entirety of your tax revenue just on interest and mandatory entitlement programs like Social Security.

    It’s harder still to create a bigger pie when the volume of laws, codes, rules, and regulations is enough to fill entire football stadiums.

    US regulations have made its entire population guilty of crimes they’ve never heard of, often for the most innocent and innocuous activities.

    Operating lemonade stands without a permit, collecting rainwater, failing to file a government survey are just a few activities now treated as criminal conspiracies.

    And yet the government continues to publish upwards of a 1,000 pages PER DAY of new rules, regulations, and other proposals.

    This isn’t rocket science.

    If you look at places that have been patently successful in growing their economies from nothing, they’ve done it by cutting taxes, abstaining from regulation, and leaving people alone to work hard and become successful.

    Tarl

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • This is pretty amazing.

      Yakov

      September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • People like the Lion base their thinking about tax policy not on historical data, but on snobbery and envy, so don’t expect to convince him or his dedicated fans with this.

      Gozo

      September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • “These arguments and discussions are entirely misplaced.”

      On this count, he is right! Middle class taxes should be lower and corporate taxes should be lower. Taxes exist as a *policy tool* to manage growth and inflation, NOT as a source of government revenue (the US government, as the sole producer of US dollars, has no need for a revenue source!). With the suppressed demand, unused factors of production and low inflation, the US can benefit from lower taxes matched with higher deficit spending.

      chairman

      September 30, 2015 at EST pm

      • Thank you!

        not too late

        October 1, 2015 at EST am

    • This isn’t rocket science.

      It’s not literally rocket science but developmental economics is at least as complex. If you think you’ve somehow figured it all out then you have a crippling lack of either intelligence, curiosity, or both.

      If you look at places that have been patently successful in growing their economies from nothing, they’ve done it by cutting taxes, abstaining from regulation, and leaving people alone to work hard and become successful.

      First of all this isn’t true. Second of all it’s barely relevant. You should be looking at what happens to countries that adopt the reforms you’re proposing. Only looking at countries that are successful doesn’t actually tell you much about the real world at all let alone the questions you’re trying to answer.

      Lloyd Llewellyn

      October 1, 2015 at EST am

    • 1) The big tax reform was in ’86, not ’88. In fact, it was called the Tax Reform Act of 1986: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Reform_Act_of_1986

      2)

      If you look at places that have been patently successful in growing their economies from nothing, they’ve done it by cutting taxes, abstaining from regulation, and leaving people alone to work hard and become successful.

      Some of the biggest economic successes of the second half of the 20th Century were Germany and the Asian Tigers (Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan). What all of those countries had in common (in addition to diligent, high-IQ populations) was a high degree of government involvement in the economy, steering industrial policy, labor policy, trade, etc. The South Korean government decided to build a steel industry in the country, from scratch. They didn’t “leave people alone to work hard and become successful”.

      Some of the conventional wisdom about what makes economies successful is wrong: http://thehackensack.blogspot.com/2008/12/questioning-conventional-wisdom-about.html

      Dave Pinsen

      October 1, 2015 at EST am

      • Not all government involvement was created equal. Big difference between governments policies designed to grow the economy and government policies designed to redistribute wealth.

        destructure

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • The USA has “a high degree of government involvement in the economy” and a de facto industrial policy (though we don’t call it that) for many decades.

        Tarl

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • Here is the data on tax revenue as a % of GDP: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205

      20% in 2000 vs 14.6 in 2010 seems like a significant deviation to me.

      Alex

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • I’d be willing to pay MORE taxes if it meant eliminating swaths of ygovernment employees.

      marty

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  5. Yakov

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • I’m willing to bet you can pretty much to that with any candidate and voters on either side of the fence.

      Most voters are clueless in general and even less informed when it comes to complex areas like taxation

      Sol

      October 1, 2015 at EST am

  6. Good point. Trump just won a nice chess move in getting Bush to admit not every tax cut is a good thing.

    And tax cuts are the only thing Republicans like Bush have to offer.

    I’m loving this. George Will, the Bushes, National Review. The coalition is dying. They should thank Trump for setting them straight on this.

    Let. it. burn.

    ModernReader

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

  7. What is Bernie Sanders’ tax plan? Googling doesn’t turn anything up.

    Hermes

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • I only found stuff from when he ran for Senate. Nothing from the Presidential run (Sanders calls for progressive state/local property taxes. How would the Feds impose that? He doesn’t explain).

      DSGNTD_PLYR

      October 1, 2015 at EST am

    • It entails a dramatically simplified, two-step 1040 form:

      1. How much do you make?
      2. Send it in.

      Tarl

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  8. Trump is now saying if he wins any Syrian refugees we accept under Obama will be sent back.

    Remind me, what was all the ankle biting about his tax plan?

    Andrew E.

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

    • I think Christian refugees should stay.

      Yakov

      October 1, 2015 at EST am

      • All dead, hanging from crosses. Or hiding in caves from ISIS.

        Andrew E.

        October 1, 2015 at EST am

      • Better yet, maybe Syrian Jews can return to their native country. The Crazy Eddies were owned by them.

        Meriprolestan was always prole, even in the 80s.

        Sam Antar reminds me of Mencius Moldbug (Menschy Goldberg could be his real name)!

        JS

        October 1, 2015 at EST am

      • No sane Jewish person would want to move to Syria.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • Stever Sailer has an old piece about Syrian Jews:

        http://isteve.blogspot.com/2007/11/syrian-jews.html

        He regards them as inferior, relatively comparing to the Ashkenazis.

        JS

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • I am sure they are smart enough not to want to go anywhere near Syria.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • Lion, JS sees Syrian Jews as an undesirable element, I’m surprised that you didn’t realize it.

        Sailer, in his typical style, wrote superficial, ignorant anti-semitic drivel in his piece about Syrian Jews. If we use financial success as a proxy for IQ, where is Sailer and JS and where are Syrian Jews?

        Yakov

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • Really? Wow, I thought the images of women and children got to him when he started talking about helping the Syrians.

      I wish there was a way to reliably separate the non-Muslims from the Muslims. They need help bad.

      DSGNTD_PLYR

      October 1, 2015 at EST am

      • It’s very easy to separate Muslim and Christian Syrians.

        Yakov

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • Yep, the immigration plan “trumps” any tax plan. And frankly, the tax plan isn’t terrible. It’s just not very original and as currently presented, would cause deeper deficits, although Trump has said he wants it to be at least revenue neutral, so I’m sure it will undergo modifications in Congress, just like any tax plan would.

      Mike Street Station

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  9. I’ve heard speculation that unions might bolt and support Trump. There’s no guarantee anything will come of it. But unions crossing over would be huge. I think it’s an indication of cracks in the coalitions that make up both parties. Voters on both sides have been rebelling against the establishment by supporting Trump and Sanders. It’s been 50 years since the deck was shuffled and a lot has happened since then. Not saying it will happen. But the potential is there.

    destructure

    September 30, 2015 at EST pm

  10. Maybe we CAN join Trump’s immigration plan to Sanders’ tax plan?

    Sanders is old-school 1930s working-class champion style liberal. His statements on immigration run more contrary to current liberal orthodoxy than you’d expect.

    See this post on Reason titled “On Immigration, Bernie Sanders Sounds Like Donald Trump”

    https://reason.com/blog/2015/07/28/on-immigration-bernie-sanders-sounds-lik

    JM

    October 1, 2015 at EST am

    • You can imagine anything you want but the fact is this country’s political culture is so dysfunctional that no prominent political figure that gets all the major issues right is ever going to emerge let alone actually win the presidency.

      Lloyd Llewellyn

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  11. All this talk of the detail of tax changes is pointless. None of it will ever happen.

    CamelCaseRob

    October 1, 2015 at EST am

  12. This is so stupid its hard to believe. If these bogus economists are in favor of it, you know it sucks. There are almost 100 Million Americans out of work, and these tax cuts are just going to be used to hire more Indians and Mexicans. Having all these people on welfare will bankrupt the entire system real quick. Higher taxes on the Rich are a good thing. They’re the ones outsourcing jobs. Grab these Bezos Bozos by the balls and make them hire American citizens. Tax these Indians workers til they want to go home. Slap tariffs on everything not made in America, and I’m not talking Puerto Rico or American Somoa. Send the welfare immigrants home by arresting them for receiving benefits and Drivers Licenses without citizenship and visas. Close down these sanctuary cities and send their Mayors and Councilmen to Leavenworth. Then maybe you have a plan to create American Prosperity.

    Joshua Sinistar

    October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  13. Lion of the Judah-sphere

    October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • We don’t know yet who the suspect is (only that he was too much of a loser to go to a real college instead of a community college), too soon to say.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • We don’t know yet who the suspect is (only that he was too much of a loser to go to a real college instead of a community college),

      But never too early to speculate about his class.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • The real issue is that many of these “beta” males happen to be on psychotropic drugs, which could have side effects that could exacerbate their frustrations.

        I know from personal experience, that an intake of codeine, makes me crabbier, than my already cold symptoms.

        JS

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • Codeine is supposed to make you feel happy. That’s why it’s a controlled substance.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • I predict the shooter was a bobo self-actualizing by shooting proles at the community college. I wonder if the shooter used locally manufactured, artisanal ammunition. What do you think, JS?

        destructure

        October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  14. Any chance you could do a post on Sander’s tax plan? I like the guy, even though you can’t graft balls onto a eunuch. But I’d love to see your take on his policies.

    Jesse

    October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • It doesn’t appear Sanders has released a tax plan. Googling produces results only about this or that bill he sponsored or voted for in the Senate. Seems Lion was just trying to rankle his conservative readership.

      Hermes

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  15. OT, lion if this is true, maybe low IQ people shouldn’t be allowed to drive.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/emilymbadger/status/649649270354644993

    rivelino

    October 1, 2015 at EST pm

    • But, in the usual reversal of cause-and-effect, in mainstream society it would lead to a greater call for universal college education.

      Hermes

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • “But, in the usual reversal of cause-and-effect, in mainstream society it would lead to a greater call for universal college education.”

        brilliant.

        rivelino

        October 3, 2015 at EST am

    • The underlying factor here is probably not low intelligence, but impulse control.

      chairman

      October 1, 2015 at EST pm

      • “The underlying factor here is probably not low intelligence, but impulse control.”

        aren’t they related?

        rivelino

        October 3, 2015 at EST am

      • They are different: people with high IQ also tend to have high impulse control, but not 100% correlation.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 3, 2015 at EST am

      • right, but my point is, if it’s true that low education people are dying more in car crashes, then we should investigate, because they probably aren’t just driving off cliffs, they are probably slamming into other cars, with normal or higher education people — meaning, low education people are not just costing society in money, but also in lives.

        rivelino

        October 3, 2015 at EST pm

  16. Lion, shooter might have targeted Christians. If he turns out to be Muslim, who will benefit, Trump or Carson?

    Wild World

    October 1, 2015 at EST pm

  17. Why is the GOP talking tax cuts again? Is this the 1980s? WTF good is a tax cut if you’re unemployed? All the jobs since the last Boosh has gone to an immigrant. This is an instant Third World we’re building here. Do you want to live in a Third World country? Then get your ass on a plane and go to Belize!
    I always knew the GOP were the Stupid Party but apparently now they’re the treason party! They’re screwing the only people who might vote for them, to help people who support Democrats! The Koch Bros and Sheldon Adelson are the only Billionaires who give money to the GOP the rest of the Forbes Rogue’s Gallery of Supervillains gives exclusively to the Marxist Crony Capitalists.
    Who’s the Head Cuck at the GOP now? Kim Philby? Might as well be!

    Joshua Sinistar

    October 5, 2015 at EST pm


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