Lion of the Blogosphere

What Scalia said

Scalia said the following at a recent oral argument for an affirmative action case:

There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less — a slower-track school where they do well. One of the briefs pointed out that most of the black scientists in this country don’t come from schools like the University of Texas. They come from lesser schools where they do not feel that they’re being pushed ahead in classes that are too fast for them.

I’m just not impressed by the fact that the University of Texas may have fewer. Maybe it ought to have fewer. And maybe some — you know, when you take more, the number of blacks, really competent blacks, admitted to lesser schools, turns out to be less.

This created a lot of media coverage, mostly hateful of Scalia, and even Donald Trump didn’t have any praise for what Scalia said (although neither did Trump say anything especially specific).

But what about the crux of the question: are blacks better off going to a more elite school where the average student has an SAT score 200 points higher than them? My answer to the question is yes, absolutely, as long as they aren’t going to be majoring in math or engineering, which are very difficult programs at top schools and the courses have a cognitive floor that will prevent underqualified students from passing.

But if they are going to major in softer subjects, then even though they won’t be able to get a 4.0 gpa, they should still be able to pass the classes because professors will always pass students who have demonstrated that they did all of the reading assignments.

Affirmative action is extremely beneficial to blacks, economically speaking. It follows them throughout their career, where they get into elite colleges they otherwise would not have been able to get into, then get hired for jobs they otherwise wouldn’t have been able to get because of corporate America’s diversity initiatives. It’s really great to be black in America.

The only downside here is that no one is honestly telling black students a bitter truth that would help them a lot at college. “You’re not as smart as the other students here, that means you will have to work harder in order to get lower grades. If you are prepared for that, then great, you will benefit from the elite degree. But if you are lazy, you should go to a lesser college.” However, we insist on pretending that the only reason that black students have lower SAT scores is not because they are less intelligent, but because the SATs are biased against black students and is not measuring their true ability. (Which, of course, is completely false, the SATs are accurately measuring lower ability on the part of black test-takers).

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

December 18, 2015 at 9:22 am

Posted in Biology, Education

69 Responses

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  1. It doesn’t matter if the goal is diversity.

    JN

    December 18, 2015 at 9:46 am

  2. I would agree that if you’re going to an elite Ivy, then it’s extremely beneficial, no matter what subject you major in. But that really only impacts a tiny sliver of blacks boosted by affirmative action.

    What Scalia said was perfectly logical, and the current racial attacks against him are simply taking him out of context of the large discussion, which unfortunately can’t be condensed into 140 characters or less.

    Here is the situation. Different Universities push students at differing levels. Some schools are just more academically demanding. The best way to determine the ability to do higher level academic work is scoring on national tests like the SAT or ACT. For Harvard, the top 25% of students earned a combined SAT score of over 2350 (out of 2400). The middle 50% earned between 2100 and 2350. And the bottom 25% scored below 2100 points. So if you come out of high school with scores below 2100, you are going to struggle. However scoring 1800 and above is the top 25% of all SAT takers on any given year. So you can score 1800, which is excellent, be the top 25% nationwide, but be well into the bottom 25% of students entering Harvard.

    The mean (not the average-just to be clear) SAT score for Black students in 2015 was 1277. So the pool of Black students who could reasonably do Ivy League work is very small, far smaller than the number admitted. So what happens when Black students are surrounded by students who have a several hundred point jump on them in test scores, in classes designed for students doing work at that level?

    They struggle. But yeah, as long as they are aware of that going in (which I’m sure isn’t the case) they can have realistic expectations. Otherwise they take out their frustrations by joining BLM and screaming at white professors.

    Mike Street Station

    December 18, 2015 at 10:09 am

    • The mean is the average. Did you mean median or something?

      Alex

      December 18, 2015 at 4:38 pm

    • Is Harvard actually hard? On one hand, the Ivies are famously easy on their students with extensions and top grades handed out generously. There is also that holistic admission which shows that raw intelligence is not what they’re after. On the other hand, I seem to recall a lot of Harvard students getting caught cheating on some exam a couple of years ago, which seems like a striver thing to do. Perhaps they should have a more direct orientation so students don’t make that sort of mistakes?

      Glengarry

      December 18, 2015 at 5:27 pm

  3. I attended a very selective state university, like the University of Texas. All the students there must have done very well in high school. Most students did fine, but there were some students that just didn’t cut it. A couple of students worked very hard but just couldn’t cut it. I’m not sure how they got into the school in the first place. There were a significant number of the students that were simply not trying. I suppose their parents had pushed them to go to college, but without their parents there to nag them, they just didn’t do their school work. All of these students were white.

    I only knew one black student. He was on a football scholarship, but not a star. During football season he had a hard time keeping up with class work, but once football season was over, he aced all of this classes. He was really smart and worked very hard.

    Average IQ or SAT scores for racial or ethnic groups don’t really matter when you are evaluating individuals.

    I really wonder if Scalia is senile. I assume what he was trying to say is perhaps blacks would be better off today if admission to colleges was completely color blind and based on test scores and grades. The way he said it makes it sound more like he is saying “blacks are too dumb to go to the University of Texas, let them go to other schools.” That is clearly not true and why many people find Scalia’s remarks offensive.

    mikeca

    December 18, 2015 at 10:24 am

    • “The way he said it makes it sound more like he is saying “blacks are too dumb to go to the University of Texas, let them go to other schools.” That is clearly not true and why many people find Scalia’s remarks offensive.”

      That’s clearly not what he said, and you’d have to have a pretty low verbal IQ to interpret it as such. What you seem to be saying is that Scalia’s mistake is forgetting that he was talking to his intellectual inferiors.

      And, honestly, you seem unable to grasp the concept of statistics at the group level. Talking about the smart black people you know doesn’t change the group trends.

      Jesse

      December 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm

      • What Scalia said was:

        “There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less — a slower-track school where they do well.”

        That sentence is what has been wildly quoted and people consider offensive. By “African-Americans” in that sentence I assume Scalia meant “African-Americans that would not be admitted to the University of Texas without considering race.” That, however, is not what he said and if you take that sentence out of context, many people find it offensive. This is very clumsy wording on a subject that Scalia knows is very sensitive. It leads me to believe the Scalia is getting senile.

        Lord knows conservatives have had a field day taking Obama quotes out of context and spinning them (you didn’t build that…).

        mikeca

        December 18, 2015 at 4:22 pm

      • Well he’s 79 years old. Which means if Hillary is selected, he gets replaced by a liberal.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 18, 2015 at 5:34 pm

      • “Lord knows conservatives have had a field day taking Obama quotes out of context and spinning them (you didn’t build that…).”

        That’s an excellent point.

        Jesse

        December 20, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    • “The way he said it makes it sound more like he is saying ‘blacks are too dumb to go to the University of Texas, let them go to other schools.’ ”

      No, what he’s saying is that those blacks who are too dumb to go there should go elsewhere. Which is self-evident, even if it’s unspeakable.

      peterike

      December 18, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    • Ugh.

      He’s saying that a student qualified for a lesser school like El Paso (or whatever) should not be unduly allowed to go to Austin because of Affirmative Action since said student will, at best, be at the bottom of his class. At worst, he’ll drop out.

      Scalia did not invent this line of thinking. It’s rational, but not altogether convincing since it’s a sideways pander to blacks, when the real problem is dead simple: Whites and Asians lose spots on the basis of their race.

      onetwothree

      December 18, 2015 at 3:25 pm

      • The University of Texas admission system is not purely based on grades and test scores. By law in Texas if you graduate in the top 10% of a Texas high school class, you are guaranteed admission to the UT. In the year this case was about, 92% of the freshman slots for in state students were taken by students who graduated in the top 10% of their high school class. For the remaining 8% of the students Texas considered GPA, SAT scores, essays, leadership, community service and special circumstances which included race. Of the 841 students admitted outside of the top 10% program, 47 had lower weighted GPA/SAT scores than Abigail Fisher. Only 5 of those 47 were black or Hispanic. The other 42 were white.

        Abigail Fisher was in the top 12% of her high school class, but not the top 10%. Her biggest problem was she lived in a wealthy neighborhood with good schools. If she had lived in a poor neighborhood she probably would have been in the top 10% of her class and been guaranteed a place at UT.

        mikeca

        December 18, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    • The way he said it makes it sound more like he is saying “blacks are too dumb to go to the University of Texas, let them go to other schools.”

      Have you ever left your house and actually been in the real world? Do you have any idea at all what blacks are really like? Judging by your comments, you have no clue at all.

      Mobutu

      December 18, 2015 at 7:03 pm

  4. Unlike regular schools, in elite schools you can major in humanities and get a great job in finance and consulting. Corporations are more than eager to hire Ivy League blacks.

    I am OK with affirmative action as reparations for member of America’s historical black (and Native American) community. I’m not OK with AA for Latinos, immigrants (including African immigrants) and Asians.

    Jimi

    December 18, 2015 at 10:28 am

    • “I am OK with affirmative action as reparations for member of America’s historical black (and Native American) community.”

      Segregation ended in the 1950’s and blacks have had affirmative action for over 50 years. That means that no black working today has ever faced legal discrimination and has, instead, been given preferential treatment their entire life. I’m not sure how one can justify continuing that. How many more generations should blacks who’ve never been discriminated against continue to receive preferential treatment?

      Also,I noticed you said “members of America’s historic black community”. But that’s mostly not who’s getting affirmative action. Most of the blacks getting admissions to highly selective universities are either biracial, foreign born or the children of foreign born. Even if someone thinks black americans should get affirmative action then why should someone like Obama get it? His mother was white and his dad was foreign.

      destructure

      December 18, 2015 at 11:58 am

    • Screw reparations. What did a white 18 year old kid ever do to harm a black 18 year old kid that means we should penalize the former in order to benefit the latter?

      Tarl

      December 18, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    • lol. Asians are really filling in the affirmative action quotas in ivys.

      unam

      December 18, 2015 at 12:54 pm

      • Asians are the Jews of the 21st century. They’re being discriminated against like crazy. Apparently, you’re only a minority if you’re an underrepresented minority.

        Brendan

        December 18, 2015 at 3:03 pm

      • They’re being discriminated against like crazy.

        Espanshade and Radford reviewed the admissions records from highly selective universities and showed that the discrimination asians face is the same as the discrimination whites face i.e. affirmative actions for blacks and hispanics. In fact, their study showed that the most discriminated group in university admissions was not asians but poor whites.

        When lower-class whites are matched with lower-class blacks and other non-whites the degree of the non-white advantage becomes astronomical: lower-class Asian applicants are seven times as likely to be accepted to the competitive private institutions as similarly qualified whites, lower-class Hispanic applicants eight times as likely, and lower-class blacks ten times as likely.

        At the private institutions in their study whites from lower-class backgrounds incurred a huge admissions disadvantage not only in comparison to lower-class minority students, but compared to whites from middle-class and upper-middle-class backgrounds as well. For minorities, the lower a family’s socioeconomic position, the more likely the student was to be admitted. For whites, though, it was the reverse. An upper-middle-class white applicant was three times more likely to be admitted than a lower-class white with similar qualifications.

        destructure

        December 18, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    • Reparations? Is this post meant to be a joke? Blacks have already received adequate “reparations” in the form of welfare and advanced living standards in the west, which put them light years ahead of their relatives in darkest Africa. Say what you want, but slavery was the best thing ever from an evaluation of the material standard of living found among even the poorest contemporary American blacks vs. their African peers. We don’t owe anybody a damn thing-blacks, Indians, or what have you-and the sooner these professional victims get with the program, the better.

      Sanjuro

      December 18, 2015 at 1:11 pm

      • “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat.”

        Mobutu

        December 18, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    • You’re behind the legal curve. The only approved rationale for AA is “diversity,” i.e. the notion that the educational experience is somehow improved for everyone if blacks are on campus (25 years per Justice O’Connor). Reparation of historical injury is not a valid justification, unless the college can pin a discrete injury to a discrete applicant, which is impossible. So the only potentially relevant factual inquiry is the one about “might it actually be hurting blacks to go where they’re hopelessly uncompetitive?” Sadly, in court they won’t get around to Lion’s solution to this dilemma, I.e., just have Goldman Sachs hire them all -they can afford it.

      Notme

      December 18, 2015 at 1:31 pm

  5. Nah, I doubt affirmative action has helped or hindered blacks much. I know the mismatch theory claims otherwise (that blacks get into law schools/STEM schools that are too difficult for them, and they end up leaving the field), but I’m willing to bet mismatching causes blacks to go into easier fields, where they are more successful than would have been had they stayed in STEM. In the short-term, it causes blacks more stress as they try to find their place, but in the long-term they just end up gravitating to their just station in life.

    AA doesn’t really hurt blacks much, but it doesn’t really help either. I know you’re saying, “affirmative action helps blacks get into prestigious schools, where they’ll end up doing well as long they don’t major in STEM”, but I just don’t support your belief that school prestige matters that much. I think life outcomes are mostly innate. But that’s just one man’s opinion…

    ruhkukah

    December 18, 2015 at 11:08 am

  6. It should be an unspoken agreement, that if you get AA, you don’t whine . I think that’s the way it used to be.

    Mrs Stitch

    December 18, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    • “We are please to inform you that, because of affirmative action, you have been admitted to the University of Texas at Austin…” lol

      shiva1008

      December 18, 2015 at 6:56 pm

  7. The only downside here is that no one is honestly telling black students a bitter truth that would help them a lot at college.

    It’s not the only downside, or even the most important downside.

    The most important downside of AA is the waste of a limited national resource, i.e., slots at elite schools. Each less-qualified black occupies a slot that could have been occupied by a more qualified white or Asian. These more qualified people would also personally benefit from attending elite schools, and from a macro perspective society would benefit more because these people are more likely to increase national wealth rather than diminish it by entering some parasitic or value-transference career like the black students will.

    Our society puts more value on “blacks being happy” than on increasing overall national wealth and productivity. This is stupid.

    Tarl

    December 18, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    • “waste of a limited national resource, i.e., slots at elite schools”

      They are only elite because of limited supply. Let in more whites, then it means being a white with an “elite” degree is slightly less elite than it was before.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 18, 2015 at 1:27 pm

      • @ LotB

        They are elite because of the professors teaching and doing research there. Instruction from those people is a scarce national resource, because there are only so many of them and so much time in the day.

        Lowe

        December 18, 2015 at 2:17 pm

      • “They are elite because of the professors teaching and doing research there. Instruction from those people is a scarce national resource.”

        You have it backwards. The elite professors are at those colleges because the colleges are elite. Undergraduates don’t benefit from this. The best researchers do very little teaching, and when they do teach, the result is not always good. At my alma mater, a Nobel laureate taught Chemistry 101, but students did not like the class. Not many great scientists and researchers are good teachers. Most of the time, there is very little meaningful interaction between them and undergraduates.

        There is a lot of value in being accepted by an elite school because it demonstrates ability. There is probably also a lot of value in being surrounded by high-ability peers. Social prestige is perhaps the most important benefit. Do elite university students actually learn all that much in their classes?

        The best teaching (i.e. straightforward conveying of information from one generation to another) may be at state schools, where students are not all self-motivated and operating on auto-pilot. Professors actually have to explain things. At liberal arts colleges, where there is a lot of faculty-student interaction, there is often so much emphasis on seminar-style discussion that students aren’t getting the basics in broad introductory courses.

        SQ

        December 18, 2015 at 6:20 pm

      • @Lowe

        I think you are overstating your case.

        ScarletNumber

        December 18, 2015 at 7:16 pm

      • Important positions around the country are doled out based on admission to elite colleges. By reducing the quality of people at elite colleges, we reduce the quality of our life. We end up with worse people working in every industry.

        hmm

        December 19, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    • If one looks at the mainstream narrative of Meriprolestan regarding race and minorities: 99.999% time it’s a black issue. It seems like Hispanics are largely ignored for a group whose population surpasses them by a mile. What is clear is that pampered blacks are now branding themselves as persecuted by everyone else.

      JS

      December 18, 2015 at 2:24 pm

  8. PPP has Trump at 34 and the establishment consolidating at 32 today. Idiot Carson down to 6 and Cruz up to 18.

    The problem I have with this poll is that it has non entities like Graham and Santorum registering 1% when all other polls have those guys at 0 and it has Huckabee at 4% when other polls usually have him at 2. Even so, these numbers make more sense than other polls which had the establishment consolidating at impossibly low numbers.

    The establishment is missing a great chance to take NH by refusing to rally around Rubio. If the establishment consolidated around Rubio he would easily get over 40% of the vote and win NH. The seem unable to get their act together, however, and are thus handing NH to Trump.

    Polls should be frozen for the next month after which they should become increasingly volatile. Howard Dean was looking great at this point as well.

    Otis the Sweaty

    December 18, 2015 at 2:03 pm

  9. There is a great comment at Sailer’s on this topic. I don’t know how to link directly to the comment, but it’s currently comment #81 by TangoMan. That may shift as Sailer approves other comments.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/nyt-the-benefits-of-black-physics-students/

    peterike

    December 18, 2015 at 3:24 pm

  10. Just yesterday I’d told my boss to stop wasting his time hiring blacks. He insists that they can be good workers. He is crazy. So he hires this black guy from who knows where and on the first day on the job when being given instructions the guy goes:

    ‘I’m not your batch! I can run this shit myself, man!’

    It turned out that he was from the islands and has no papers. He used NYC id to get hired. He’s totally stupid and is history, but today my boss was interviewing another black dude. He is insane.

    Yakov

    December 18, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    • You should look for another employer; your boss might get you killed!

      E. Rekshun

      December 18, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    • Yakov, you seem like a very good guy.
      Yesterday you wrote about starting your own business – You should do it.
      Alas, your boss is an incompetent when it comes to hiring.
      Set up your own LLC and then sub-contract work from your former employer.
      That way you’ll be in charge of the number of hours you work and who you work with,
      but you won’t be abandoning your employer and leaving him without help.

      Nedd Ludd

      December 18, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    • When I started working with blacks the 1st thing I noticed is they don’t like being given directions. 2nd thing is they have surprisingly low stamina. Much lower than you’d think given their muscular physiques.

      Jimi

      December 19, 2015 at 9:46 am

      • Tell me about it! My friend, who is also an HVSC guy, picks up a hudge negro from Africa. This guy is illegal so you would think he is eager to work, right? So he gives him a hammer drill and puts him to work. In an hour the guy goes: ‘I can’t do this job, man! I’m gonna loose my balls! ‘, and he just walks away. At least he didn’t sue.

        Yakov

        December 19, 2015 at 5:55 pm

      • I think the issue with stamina has much more to do with mental than physical. Here’s a great example involving four professional football players (3 black and 1 white) whose boat capsized in the gulf back in 2009. They were all wearing lifevests and hanging on to the side of the upturned boat. But the water was cold and the rough waves were slamming them into the side. All the blacks gave up after a few hours and let themselves drown. But the white guy hung on for two days until he was finally rescued.

        http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/03/04/florida-boat-accident-survivor-2-nfl-players-gave-up-hope.html

        destructure

        December 19, 2015 at 11:41 pm

      • Regarding the black and white football players I wouldn’t be so sure that the difference was mental. I suspect maybe body fat percentage had something to do with it. Here is a similar story about 3 white guys.

        http://www.vikingrune.com/2009/03/true-viking-grit/

        Two died quickly, one didn’t.

        James B. Shearer

        December 20, 2015 at 11:09 am

      • The icelandic fisherman died because the water was a lot colder than the gulf. Regardless, the football players didn’t die from hypothermia. They gave up.

        destructure

        December 20, 2015 at 6:21 pm

      • You develop hypothermia faster in colder water but 63 F is plenty cold enough to kill you eventually. See:

        http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm

        Which estimates 2-7 hours to exhaustion and 2-40 hours to death in 60-70 degree water. And before hypothermia kills you it screws up your judgment. From the link I gave before:

        “… However, he knew well that low body heat leads to mental confusion, …”

        From your link quoting the father of one of the players that died.

        “”I think he was delusional to think he could swim someplace,” the Times quoted Bob Bleakley as saying.”

        That sounds exactly right.

        James B. Shearer

        December 20, 2015 at 9:55 pm

  11. “The most important downside of AA is the waste of a limited national resource, i.e., slots at elite schools.”

    I think the most important downside of AA is that, to support it, everyone-literally everyone-in society is obligated to lie to themselves and others to maintain it.

    Black students lie to themselves and believe that they are equal and capable of the harder work.
    Educators lie to themselves and believe that differences in performance are caused by societal injustice.
    White students lie to themselves and pretend to accept that affirmative action is just.

    The entire system is built on lies. Our entire society is lying to itself. And it poisons the entire system. It poisons higher education, it poisons hiring after college, it poisons healthy immigration (or lack thereof). It poisons our perceptions of accomplishment and ability.

    It is very similar to the bizarre argument that women are equal to men, and so should be allowed to be infantry soldiers. This is clearly absurd. It will poison military performance in the future. It will poison promotions of military officers. It will poison acquisition of weapons and equipment (heavy equipment will be rebuilt so that it is easier for women to carry, for instance). Everyone knows this is absurd, and noone is publicly saying it.

    Fear of telling the truth is poisonous-AA happens to be one topic on which this is the case.

    anonymousse

    anonymousse

    December 18, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    • The Kurds and the Israelis both have female infantry soldiers.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 18, 2015 at 5:37 pm

      • Has any female passed CET?

        Mobutu

        December 18, 2015 at 9:01 pm

      • Kurds and Israelis have small population surrounded by people who want them dead. They are forced to use female infantry. USA does not have that issue. We have more than enough men to fight so that we don’t need to resort to female infantry.

        Jimi

        December 18, 2015 at 9:32 pm

      • Including women in our highly selective special combat forces is just Obama’s way of weakening them.
        Of course, that is the left’s goal.
        The Israeli’s do not not do this, because not having two oceans to protect their flanks,
        they can’t afford to lose even one war.
        Obama: “The friend of our enemies and the enemy of our friends.”

        Israeli women’s combat roles exaggerated…

        By Rowan Scarborough – The Washington Times – Monday, May 25, 2015

        Military traditionalists say women’s combat roles in the Israel Defense Forces are exaggerated by advocates in the U.S., noting as an example a recent IDF decision to keep Israeli women from serving on main battle tanks.

        As the U.S. military prepares to open most, if not all, infantry, armor and special operations units to women, activists often point to the IDF as an illustration of a military in which women are thriving in ground combat units.

        But a closer look shows Israeli women are not in direct combat special operations such as the Green Berets. Nor are they in front-line combat brigades mobilized to engage in direct heavy combat.

        In the infantry, virtually all of Israel’s female combat soldiers are confined to two light battalions — the Caracal and the Lions of Jordan — which are assigned to guard the borders with Egypt and Jordan, the only Arab countries that have peace treaties with Israel.

        http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/25/womens-combat-roles-in-israel-defense-forces-exagg/?page=all

        Nedd Ludd

        December 18, 2015 at 11:06 pm

      • http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/gaza-a-mans-war-israel-gender/375689/

        In the current conflict, all Israeli combat casualties have been men, since the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) does not allow female soldiers to operate in positions “over the border.”

        The assumption that “real” soldiers are men is widespread in Israel. Army announcements and news stories about military recruitment routinely refer to “soldiers and their wives.”

        it’s difficult to claim that women are equals in the IDF (even the IDF admits that less than 4 percent of women are in combat positions).

        In short the role of women in the IDF as “infantry” is symbolic / political. The reality is that where there are bullets flying, there are no women, and where there are women there are no bullets flying.

        Tarl

        December 20, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    • The Kurds and the Israelis both have female infantry soldiers.

      And the Kurds and Israelis should both stop. In previous eras resorting to women was almost never used even as a hail Mary.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      December 18, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    • anonymousse,

      “The entire system is built on lies. Our entire society is lying to itself. And it poisons the entire system. It poisons higher education, it poisons hiring after college, it poisons healthy immigration (or lack thereof). It poisons our perceptions of accomplishment and ability.”

      The system is designed to humiliate. It is the essence of political correctness as demonstrated by Theodore Dalrymple.

      map

      December 19, 2015 at 12:27 am

  12. The problem with Scalia’s argument is that he’s not explicitly admitting the possibility of intellectual differences but just says that blacks seems to do better a slower-paced schools for an omitted, unknown reason. It’s easy to read racism into this. Scalia should have just said that students do not benefit from going to schools that are above their demonstrated intellectual ability and that schools should simply admit the students who demonstrate the intellectual requirements each individual school has, and if this just policy results in “too few” black students being admitted then the solution must be to improve primary and secondary education rather than selecting token diversity lottery winners which helps a small number of individuals gain access to social privilege but does nothing to help the large number of blacks.

    This is the argument against AA that can be palatable to liberals.

    chairman

    December 18, 2015 at 6:44 pm

  13. Most people are confused about teaching. They separate professors into those that are smart and those that teach well. If you think that a professor is a real good teacher, he (she) most likely has intellectual capability similar to your intellectual capability. If most students in the class are happy with the professor as a teacher, you have got not a very bright professor in front of you, definitely not a star. There is no value in average people teaching well. You will just get confused for life.

    MyTwoCents

    December 18, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    • I had a Finance teacher at Wharton who as a great teacher but he had his PhD disserattion rejected twice.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 18, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    • To be effective, a teacher has to (1) have a good idea of the capabilities of his students, (2) have a good idea of the knowledge they already have, and (3) be able to help them at their level. It’s pointless for an expert to talk to students the way that he would talk to other experts.

      SQ

      December 18, 2015 at 8:45 pm

      • Obviously, people cannot talk much differently to different audiences. They just talk the way they talk. They talk about the same way to their three year old children, their spouses, their coworkers, or their students.

        MyTwoCents

        December 19, 2015 at 5:16 am

      • @MyTwoCents

        Of course they can. Try it sometime.

        SQ

        December 19, 2015 at 4:16 pm

    • It is important that teachers understand what they are teaching. Assuming they know the material you are better off with a good teacher at about your level than a lousy teacher who is much smarter than you. A teacher at your level will be more patient and will explain things in ways that you can understand. If you have problems with understanding certain things it is likely they had similar troubles when they were learning the material themselves. This will help them explain it to you.

      Super bright people often are bad teachers for more average people because the material is so easy and obvious to them they have trouble understanding why people have problems with it and how to help them get past the problems. And of course some super bright professors will just teach to the super bright students.

      James B. Shearer

      December 18, 2015 at 11:47 pm

      • Super bright people often are bad teachers for more average people because the material is so easy and obvious to them they have trouble understanding why people have problems with it and how to help them get past the problems.

        On the other hand a bright teacher who is not an asshole might be smart enough and creative enough to make the material understandable to people who are slightly less bright. After all that is their job.

        Rosenmop

        December 19, 2015 at 7:52 am

      • “On the other hand a bright teacher who is not an asshole might be smart enough and creative enough to make the material understandable to people who are slightly less bright. After all that is their job.”

        It is possible. However it isn’t the main part of their job. Professors at elite schools are generally hired and promoted based on their research work. Lots of them are not very good at teaching.

        James B. Shearer

        December 19, 2015 at 12:06 pm

      • Unless you do state of the art research in the area that you teach, you do not understand the subject. Instead, you are only familiar with the portion of the subject and do not even understand the limits of applicability. Your expertise excludes the area that is at the known/unknown transition. This is actually what you need to teach your students about, so that they could familiarize themselves and apply it. Most people that do state of the art research are generally assholes. Naturally, the last things they care about are your feelings. So, you will rarely hear that they are good teachers.

        MyTwoCents

        December 20, 2015 at 7:38 pm

  14. Scalia’s argument may have some real world implication, but it hardly at all addresses the true nature of AA which cannot be understood unless observed through the lense of “equality dogma.” “Equality dogma” DEMANDS in the application of AA a FIXED MINDSET asserting the equal suffering of today’s blacks to the suffering of the blacks of yesteryear. And “equality dogma” is applied in such a manner that this equivocation never dies… There is no desired “even playing field.” This is just plain, raw, psychological war pitting blacks against whites with “white” liberationists as collaborating perpetrators of this nauseously false reality. For it is one thing to claim “racism” like one is afflicted with Tourette’s Syndrome, but a whole other thing to claim this exaggerated “racism” as equivalent in suffering to that of one’s slave ancestors. That’s downright despicable.

    thordaddy

    December 18, 2015 at 11:27 pm

  15. I think the facts are even less white and black as you think.
    1) The facts

    1 black in 100 reach the LSAT level of 1 white in 10
    1 black in 1500 reach the level of 1 white in 100 (the 173 LSAT wich is the average score in Yale and Harvard)
    There is no data of the perfect score reached by the general population 1 in 1800 but a regression analysis would give around 1 in 45 000 black, wich would be one black every 3 years

    2) Analysis

    2.1 It s not a piece of cake for black to make it
    So if people would be selected only on tests results there would be only 1% black students in Harvard and Yale. But if they were selected only compared to there origin, there would be 18%. In fact they make in average 9% of Harvard and Yale. So in reality its twice as hard for them to make it !

    2.2 It s neither important for society when you think of Business Schools
    So is it important ? for years the average level of Harvard business school was 1 in 8 680/800 and if it has recently goes to 1 in 20 (720) most top business schools are still in the 1 in 10 level or under (700/800). So the average white student of the very top business school has an IQ wich is similar or inferior to the one of black students in the best law school. And still, they ended having the top managing jobs in society ,,,,,,

    Bruno from Paris

    December 19, 2015 at 1:49 pm

    • You need to come to the Estados Unidos and see how things really work with the Bruthas. Analysis? Affirmative Action, dawg.

      Mobutu

      December 20, 2015 at 8:35 pm

  16. Which is why people like Ted Williams are generally not good coaches.

    Goalkeeper

    December 21, 2015 at 3:06 pm

  17. What would be wrong with low IQ people setting rules?

    MyTwoCents

    December 21, 2015 at 8:32 pm


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