Lion of the Blogosphere

CMM Level 5 and India

India has more CMM Level 5 certified companies than the rest of the world combined. Indians are very good at bureaucracy, which is what CMM Level 5 is about. Creative white programmers, the kind who create successful and popular apps, could never put up with that sort of stifling bureaucracy.

CMM Level 5 doubles the amount of manpower needed to create software, but because Indian employees are so cheap, they are able to be Level 5 compliant and still less expensive than western companies.

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In response to a comment, if you really want to know about CMM, here’s a Wikipedia article:

Basically, it means there’s lot’s of documentation and QA and management, which doesn’t mean the software is actually any good.

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I found the following comment at an online forum:

It sucks all the fun out of writing software. An awful methodology. I left the company that used it after only 3 months (would have been sooner if I found another job sooner).

Indians don’t expect to have fun at work. Which doesn’t necessarily give them the advantage you might think, because the best software is going to be written by people who actually enjoy what they are doing.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

December 29, 2015 at 12:38 pm

Posted in Labor Markets

15 Responses

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  1. I don’t work in IT. Could you describe what CMM Level 5 is and why it’s beneficial to be one?


    December 29, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    • Ok, it’s a certification to show how advanced your quality assurance is in software development.

      Are any of the Indian software firms actually good? I know there’s Infosys and Wipro, but I have never encountered them in the business world. We use SAP at work for our data management and it’s great, but expensive. I obviously know Microsoft.


      December 29, 2015 at 12:54 pm

  2. I believe in writing beautiful code and doing beautiful installations. You should be able to look at the code from 3 feet away and find esthetically pleasing. It should be self-documenting with a few comments when needed to add to clarity. A nice neat code is an indication that the program was written with care and works well and it’s usually true. The Indians take all the fun out of work, very true. Miserable people.


    December 29, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    • The software coders you see here are a subset of Indians. They took the coding job because its the only job that they can get qualifications for and it lets them get a US work permit. The job is just a paycheck to them and of course they hate it. The result is poor quality work.


      December 29, 2015 at 1:26 pm

      • Why the hell did they waste years studying it in college, if they hate it? I think they hate it because they can’t do it right and they are used to being exploited.


        December 29, 2015 at 1:42 pm

      • To paraphrase what I read a while back…

        A job is not always supposed to be fun. That’s why they pay you. If a job was always fun it would be called entertainment and you would pay them.


        December 29, 2015 at 1:44 pm

      • And indeed, we see the trend of paying for internships.

        Eventually getting paid for a job that’s actually entertainment is the privilege of a Harvard degree.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 29, 2015 at 2:16 pm

      • If my job stops being given fun for too long, I’m changing carriers. Had really bad few days, just very boring stuff. I’m not made for this type of work. Fun, challenge, going to the limit of how good you can be – that’s work for me, drudgery is slavery.


        December 29, 2015 at 2:23 pm

      • @Yakov – they studied it in college because its the only thing they can pass AND can get them a US work permit. These people tend to be from poorer Brahmin families. This means they are from a traditionally high class but are poor. So they really feel they deserve money and have a huge chip on their shoulders. I agree that they cannot do it right..

        In most intellectual fields the more you study the better you get at it and the better you are at something the more you enjoy doing it. But this means in the beginning you must make the effort to get good.


        December 29, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    • Yakov, about writing beautiful code, these days, the Indian programmers do the opposite. They try to write the code to be as convoluted as possible, to give them job security, as they are the only ones who are able to fix it when something breaks. At least that’s how it was in the IT department of the 2 wall street firms that I worked for.


      December 29, 2015 at 6:02 pm

  3. But isn’t CMM designation falling out of favor nowadays, anyway?

    Most employers want their programming candidates (in the USA) to have a deep understanding of Agile development. I’ve been under the impression that in 2015 only the biggest and most static employers (like quasi-governmental agencies) care about CMM, it’s no longer the en vogue thing for anyone who actually knows anything about coding.


    December 29, 2015 at 8:13 pm

    • This may be true. Management finally saw the miserable disaster of trying to do waterfall right.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 29, 2015 at 8:17 pm

  4. I’m a low status, though highly paid, programmer. I finally got smart a few years ago and took off my CMMI 5 experience and its latest incarnation, Agile/SCRUM, off my resume because I don’t want to work anywhere that uses them. It worked because I’m now working someplace that lets me write software however I think is best and it’s the best job I’ve ever had.


    December 30, 2015 at 12:44 am

  5. I would love to be computer programmer in India… not killing animals and just eating dal rice and chapati and marrying a nice chaste woman

    Unfortunately there is a lot of age discrimination in their work force (I refuse to say workforce) and institutions, so alas it is not to be…


    December 31, 2015 at 1:04 am

    • What’s the big deal about killing animals, unless you are a Hindu or a Jay? Animals are yummy.

      They may not kill animals, but they are cruel to people. Nazies loved animals. It proves nothing. In fact, I think anybody who is an exaggerated lover of animals is usually a Nazi. Just my personal experience.

      Until the Messiah comes we eat them, after that I’m not 100% sure, but I think we still eat them.


      December 31, 2015 at 2:32 pm

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