Lion of the Blogosphere

Saudi Arabian executions

Saudi Arabia is in the news for executing 47 dissidents (or “terrorists” according to the Saudi Arabian government) including a prominent Shia cleric.

While this has been called “inhumane” by some in the West, the Islamic Middle East is a pretty inhumane place. Look at what ISIS is doing. Only harsh law and order of this sort prevents these countries from falling into civil war. No one in Syria is better off there because of the civil war (which Obama helped to instigate). Iraq was a much better place when Saddam was in charge.

That said, Saudi Arabia is responsible for supporting Wahabi Islam, which is a fundamentalist and strict interpretation of Islam that is only a small step away from what ISIS believes. Islam will be a danger to the world until the governments of Islamic countries push a Universalist version of Islam which does not believe that the Koran and the Hadiths should be taken literally.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

January 2, 2016 at 12:08 pm

Posted in International, Religion

66 Responses

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  1. ” Islam will be a danger to the world until the governments of Islamic countries push a Universalist version of Islam which does not believe that the Koran and the Hadiths should be taken literally.”

    ———————————————————————

    In other words, until hell freezes over.

    Rosenmops

    January 2, 2016 at 12:19 pm

    • I don’t see how Islam can be properly reformed given that Muhammad himself was a violent warlord.

      On the one hand, Mormons now repudiate polygamy even though Joseph Smith was a big time polygamist, so maybe Muslims can repudiate all the things they believe that are anti-civilization. On the other hand, Joseph Smith is second fiddle to Jesus in the Mormon viewpoint, whereas in the Islamic viewpoint, Mohammad is the number one guy ever.

      Dan

      January 2, 2016 at 6:37 pm

      • Mormonism has always been a self-conscious fraud, at least for the upper levels certainly. I somewhat doubt ‘true’ believers make it into the inner circle of doctrine makers (they’d be too dangerous). So, such changes are more like Supreme Court decisions, done with caution and rarely done, but done when circumstances seem to warrant. Islam, on the other hand, has been around long enough that its leaders may very well believe it to be true in which case changes are verboten.

        Curle

        January 3, 2016 at 1:42 pm

      • Exactly! This is human nature in action. Even when a religion built upon a sweet, pacific man went to hideous extremes in the 100-year (not the 30 we usually get) religious war in Europe, what to think about the developing religious war between Sunni and Shia Muslims, or their common war against the West?

        vdorta

        January 4, 2016 at 4:10 pm

  2. Will the media ask Obama, Hillary, or any of the neocon supporters of Saudi Arabia to apologize for supporting a regime that mass executes its opponents (not to speak of everything else they do)? I know they really wanted Trump to apologize for returning a compliment to Putin.

    Winston

    January 2, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    • Oil, dear boy.

      njguy73

      January 2, 2016 at 11:26 pm

  3. Saudi Arabia has public executions and floggings every Thursday, they try to wrap them up before Friday sabbath.

    For murder they practice stoning – they tie the offender to a pole and then have an elderly community member throw a ceremonial first stone, followed by a dump truck backing up and dropping tons of rocks. It makes for a very law-abiding society. They also still practice floggings for fornication, which in the minds of the Wahhabis can consist of any time a young, unmarried/unrelated guy and gal are alone together in private.

    Camlost

    January 2, 2016 at 1:16 pm

    • And theft is punished by chopping off a hand, right? Muslims in the UK want to impose sharia law, by the way.

      Glengarry

      January 3, 2016 at 4:53 am

      • Sharia would be a VAST improvement over the pussified no-punishment-for-criminals regime that currently prevails in the UK.

        Tarl

        January 3, 2016 at 8:39 pm

      • Sharia law also (predictably) puts muslims on top of society. No, think boldly. I rather prefer a no-muslim approach myself. Whipping the shifty chavs can be discussed separately.

        Glengarry

        January 4, 2016 at 3:26 am

  4. The Saudis have a system of justice that is totally appropriate and exactly suited to their needs.

    If only we could say the same.

    Tarl

    January 2, 2016 at 1:19 pm

  5. The Middle East is entrenched with poverty (with its Islamic adherents masking as fundamentalists), as an outlet for rebellion of its status quo.

    ISIS wants a caliphate, which would emulate the Golden Age of the Islamic Empire, and its line of Caliphs (who by the way, ironically, a few of them hated the prolier Koranic literalists and traditionalists, because they believed in rationalism and intellectual pursuits, reflecting our educated liberals, who generally dislike the Christian right and their working class constituents).

    JS

    January 2, 2016 at 1:30 pm

    • Slightly OT: There are learned people out there who believed Descartes ripped of the ideologies of this Muslim man a few centuries earlier:

      His book, Deliverance from Error, eerily resembles Descartes’ Discourse on Method

      Both works deal with deviating from the present material reality, so one can understand the world with objectivity.

      Similarly, in certain Islamic circles, it is believed that Machiavelli ripped off from an Islamic intellectual who lived in Sicily under Muslim rule, centuries earlier, who wrote a book on rulership that deals with a “Prince”.

      JS

      January 2, 2016 at 2:09 pm

      • There was a whole Islamic Neoplatonist/rationalist tradition, most prominently Ibn Rashid (Averroes in the West), who helped inspire medieval Scholasticism and, eventually, rationality and science–in the West. They just *lost*.

        Similarly, there was an honest-to-goodness native German liberal tradition, they just didn’t win.

        SFG

        January 2, 2016 at 6:27 pm

      • There are certain circles who blamed Al-Ghazali for putting an official end to Aristotelian philosophy, rationalism, and scientific inquiry championed later by Ibn Rushd (Averroes) and earlier by Ibn Sina (Avicenna). But the guy who totally destroyed the Islamic intellectual tradition was Ibn Taymiyyah, who was also the man who inspired Islamic extremism via Ibn al-Wahab many centuries later, to Al-Qaeda and now ISIS. Al-Ghazali believed philosophy had a role in Islam, more like vocational, textbook logic that would be infused with theological studies. Ibn Taymiyyah, called this heretical, and wanted to purge Islam of all forms of external influences, where the religion would return to its glory days of Muhammad. One needs to the understand that it was the Islamic ruling elites who viewed “religious people as proles who need to be put in their place”, which would later become a backlash against the intellectual elitism of Aristotle in Islam.

        JS

        January 3, 2016 at 3:14 pm

      • I’ve noticed a theme to your comments over the last couple of years. You’ve badmouthed Jews, Italians, French, English, Asians and America in general. But you have your head square up the asses of hispanics and muslims. Something is off about you.

        destructure

        January 2, 2016 at 6:52 pm

      • Hispanic culture has it roots in Islam. Hispanic culture has it machismo roots from Islam.

        The other groups mentioned in your comments have become blue pill, whiny efete pansies to the status quo.

        JS

        January 3, 2016 at 3:20 pm

      • I always heard, as well, that algebra and double-entry accounting originated in the Muslim Middle East.

        Mrs Stitch

        January 2, 2016 at 10:34 pm

      • Yes, from al-Khwarizmi (algorithm) I believed, who invented algebra. Or modern day accounting could have originated from a guido by the name of Pagioli from the Italian Renaissance.

        JS

        January 3, 2016 at 3:16 pm

      • @ SFG –

        To add to your point that the Islamic rationalists *lost*, the image that JS posted is a supposed likeness of Al-Ghazali, the opponent of Averroes who wrote The Incoherence of the Philosophers. He is blamed by many as ultimately responsible for stunting scientific progress in the Islamic world.

        nebbish

        January 3, 2016 at 1:47 pm

      • Regarding Hispanic Machismo-ism:

        Andrew Divoff (who’s part Russian and part Argentinian) looked like a Ricky Martin on steroids, by playing Luis Cali, the Colombian terrorist who invades and take hostage of an American High School in Toy Soldiers. A great movie of Hispanic Patriarchal Criminality against the soft Anglo-Sphere. Even Italian Mafiosos are no match to Hispanic criminals in violence and brutality, as the movie suggests.

        JS

        January 3, 2016 at 3:44 pm

      • …or maybe you just think so because you’re one of them?

        destructure

        January 3, 2016 at 8:05 pm

      • Both Hispanics and Muslims have dealt with blacks, heavy handed. Qaddafi told Europeans that sub-saharans illegals on their shore would not be a good thing, but they didn’t listen. The Anglo-Prole-Sphere continues to pander to intellectually and morally inferior blacks as equal human beings, that the Islamic and Hispanic worlds have stopped eons ago.

        JS

        January 4, 2016 at 12:30 pm

      • I still think your initials stand for José Sanchez.

        destructure

        January 5, 2016 at 10:51 pm

    • Meanwhile, JS is totally delusional, backing one NAM group over another for its tiny edge over the other in IQ despite the negligible difference in exhibited brutality. Just another day on LOTB…

      Vladivostok 2000

      January 6, 2016 at 2:22 am

      • Delusional….? blacks are gradually being replaced by Hispanics and other immigrants in all of our metro areas, including Manhattan with low skilled labor and our welfare policies. The alt-right and the NRA only vote and cheer for Frumpy Trumpy.

        JS

        January 6, 2016 at 12:02 pm

  6. While I agree the Islamic middle east is a very inhumane place, the Gulf states have some of the lowest murder rates in the world. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain, especially. There are a couple of reasons. For one, they’re very rich. For another, they have the death penalty. And the death penalty works.

    Based on data from all 50 states from 1978 to 1997, each state execution deters an average of 14 murders annually. So even if there’s a very small chance an innocent person will be wrongly convicted it’s well worth the risk because it saves so many lives. so hang ’em and hang ’em high. Let would be murderers know what’s waiting at the end of the rope.

    destructure

    January 2, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    • There’s also the part that the people truly believe in Islam and do whatever the Imams say, and the Imams promote law and order.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 2, 2016 at 1:41 pm

      • That’s true. Religion generally produces many benefits for society. And, unless the religion is promoting something pernicious such as rape, slavery and genocide; I generally think it should be respected. That’s why it irks me when atheists attack religion without cause.

        http://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=40219

        destructure

        January 2, 2016 at 7:11 pm

      • “That’s why it irks me when atheists attack religion without cause.”

        Many ‘atheists’ fly under the atheist banner to attack those religions that constitute a barrier, hindrance or competitor to their favored religion whether their favored religion acknowledges itself as such or not. As far as I’m concerned any philosophy that takes on the partisan aspects of a religion should be categorized as such and treated as such by the culture and our laws. To the extent Equalism, Egalitarianism or Blank Slatism operate to enforce doctrines that aren’t grounded is reliable evidence (which is mostly the case) they should be identified as religions. It is these religions most atheists are advancing when they attack religions. At least that’s my belief.

        Curle

        January 3, 2016 at 1:52 pm

      • Global warming, of course is also a religion.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 3, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    • If you counted murders of foreign workers it would probably be a lot higher.

      http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/oct/24/the-vanished-filipino-domestic-workers-working-abroad

      Rosenmops

      January 2, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    • “Based on data from all 50 states from 1978 to 1997, each state execution deters an average of 14 murders annually.”

      Where does this information come from?

      According to the Death Penalty Information Center, the US Southern states have executed 1156 people between 1976 and Dec 2015. The 2014 murder rate for the Southerns states was 5.5 murders per 100,000. On the other hand the Northeastern states have executed 4 people since 1976 and the murder rates for 2014 is 3.3 murders per 100,000.

      mikeca

      January 2, 2016 at 4:28 pm

      • High murder rate causes citizens to demand the death penalty, so more executions are an effect of rising crime and not the cause of it.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 2, 2016 at 5:48 pm

      • The information comes from — STATE EXECUTIONS, DETERRENCE, AND THE INCIDENCE OF MURDER. Journal of Applied Economics, Vol. VII, No. I (May 2004)

        And most studies support it as shown by — The deterrent effect of executions: A meta-analysis thirty years after Ehrlich by Bijou Yang and David Lester.

        The Death Penalty Information Center opposes the death penalty. Like most leftists, they don’t let reality get in the way of achieving their desired results. In this case, they have used a common logical fallacy by suggesting correlation implies causation. It doesn’t.

        Regardless, a straight comparison of the homicide rates between the South and the rest of the country is invalid because the South doesn’t have the same demographics as the rest of the country. Nearly 2/3 of the blacks in America live in the South. And blacks have a homicide rate roughly 8 times the national average. In other words, there are more blacks in the South so their higher homicide rate exerts a stronger influence on the homicide rate of the region.

        destructure

        January 2, 2016 at 8:28 pm

    • Sure. Democracy’s inefficient too. Stalin was able to industrialize Russia in a few decades.

      Sometimes you have to live in the society you want to live in, and take the consequences. I don’t think any American actually wants to live in Saudi Arabia. Even half the Muslims here (the ones who *don’t* join ISIS) are watering down their religion to fit in. I approve.

      SFG

      January 2, 2016 at 6:29 pm

  7. All the power of the Islamic world is built upon the wealth created by Western companies that built the oil wells there. They should never have been allowed to nationalize what they could never build and then use it against the West. If it weren’t for Western technology, they’d *still* be walking on top of trillions of dollars of unmined oil.

    Regardless, Islam doesn’t need (and can’t achieve) some universalist reformation. Let them have their culture and their tyrannical strong men; it’s who they are and every people should allowed to be who they are. The key is not giving them our money, not interfering in their wars, and not letting their people over here. Looks like we’ve failed across the board.

    fakeemail

    January 2, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    • Why shouldn’t an entrepreneur company help solve a problem and be handsomely rewarded for it. Are we going the anti-capitalist route now?

      Wt

      January 2, 2016 at 11:38 pm

      • Buy an electric car and solar panels for your roof. If that isn’t possible for you, at least buy a car that uses regular gas (West Texas crude is used for most regular gas in the USA while premium and medium grade generally use at least part foreign oil). Conservatives hate that notion but it nevertheless works. Aside from unavoidable indirect purchases of plastics I haven’t given a dime to the oil industry in almost five years now.

        Vladivostok 2000

        January 6, 2016 at 2:26 am

    • Fakeemail, hear him, hear him.

      Glengarry

      January 3, 2016 at 5:11 am

      • +1

        Curle

        January 3, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    • This ^

      vdorta

      January 4, 2016 at 5:58 pm

  8. The Gulf states are actually pretty safe, and these very public executions might have something to do with it.

    I’ve always found it ridiculous that American executions take place behind closed doors. What the hell is the point if the public can’t see justice being done?

    Carpenizer

    January 2, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    • Public executions would keep you know who in line, you dig?

      Mobutu

      January 2, 2016 at 5:57 pm

    • Exactly. Attendance should be compulsory for criminals. I don’t like the needle, I like beheading. The head falling in a basket is very elegant. This is style! Not the needle.

      Yakov

      January 3, 2016 at 7:04 pm

  9. 47 fewer muzzies? That’s good news. Hopefully more next week, Inshallah.

    Mobutu

    January 2, 2016 at 3:39 pm

  10. 47 is very few. America needs to execute a few hundred every week until crime stops. And eventually it will. We should start by apprehending and executing all gang members, all drug dealers, all armed robbers, all murderers. But not rapists, because women frame a lot of men for rape. You just can’t trust them today.

    Yakov

    January 2, 2016 at 6:57 pm

    • That’s lots of dead blacks and muzzies. We’re gonna be very busy cleaning stuff up and real tired when we’re done. When can we get started?

      Mobutu

      January 3, 2016 at 2:01 pm

      • Like I’ve said already, when Trump get elected we gave our last great chance.

        Yakov

        January 3, 2016 at 2:11 pm

  11. That said, Saudi Arabia is responsible for supporting Wahabi Islam, which is a fundamentalist and strict interpretation of Islam that is only a small step away from what ISIS believes.

    The House of Saud is like the Assad family: undesireable but still orders of magnitude better than any of the likely alternatives. And their funding of Wahabbi Islam would not be a problem if the West stopped importing Muslims.

    The Undiscovered Jew

    January 2, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    • The House of Saud is great. Very loyal to America and their corruption makes them easy to manipulate. They are also a bulwark against Iran.

      Back to Trump: Trump is now 1st place on Predictit. All those data geeks who were saying not to take Trump seriously cause he wasn’t the betting favorite are going to need a new line. Rubio at 28 cents and in 3rd.

      I’d like to see Trump at 40% and 35 cents going into IA. Trump is making noises like he can’t win in IA, which makes me think Laudner has already told him he won’t be able to turn out the votes. Even so, while a strong 2nd doesn’t help him, it doesn’t hurt him either and he should be able to win NH unless the establishment consolidates.

      But man, how great would it be to get a victory in IA be? We’d run the board after that.

      Otis the Sweaty

      January 3, 2016 at 11:37 am

      • Trump is still behind Rubio in the UK where people have real money at stake: http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/republican-candidate

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 3, 2016 at 1:39 pm

      • any idea on what the trends are? I want Trump in first by Iowa.

        Otis the Sweaty

        January 3, 2016 at 2:45 pm

      • “. . . in the UK where people have real money at stake”

        Aren’t gambling ‘markets’ notoriously manipulated to pull in ‘punters’ as they call them?

        People have real money at stake at the casinos, yet the house wins most of the time.

        Curle

        January 3, 2016 at 3:49 pm

      • Trump is still behind Rubio in the UK where people have real money at stake:

        Rubio is treading water at 10% in both national and state polls. Those betting markets know nothing.

        Very loyal to America and their corruption makes them easy to manipulate. They are also a bulwark against Iran.

        Much like the late, greatly missed, Muammar Kadafi.

        Trump is making noises like he can’t win in IA, which makes me think Laudner has already told him he won’t be able to turn out the votes.

        Or he’s lowering expectations, but leaves room to declare a great victory later if he wins or comes close behind Cruz.

        Let’s see what the effect of Trump’s new ad campaign is before declaring Iowa for Cruz.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        January 3, 2016 at 4:53 pm

      • TUJ: I think it is pretty clear that ads aren’t making a difference this cycle. The ads Trump has shown so far are more goofy than anything else, what he needs is some ads to seem “Presidential” and drive up his favorability ratings and he isn’t doing it.

        Otis the Sweaty

        January 4, 2016 at 5:30 am

      • The ads Trump has shown so far are more goofy than anything else, what he needs is some ads to seem “Presidential” and drive up his favorability ratings and he isn’t doing it.

        Trump has only just started advertising.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        January 4, 2016 at 5:37 pm

  12. People don’t realize but a lot of the dissidents in Saudi Arabia hate the Saudi family because they think Wahhabi Islam is not strict enough!! The Shiites are sympathetic as they truly are marginalized by the Saudi government. but this is the Middle East. If Shiites are given too much power than they will strike back at the government in revenge for all the years they suffered.

    USA needs to butt out and let foreign countries run themselves.

    Jimi

    January 3, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    • Dissidents in Saudi Arabia think that the Saudi royal family is full of hypocrisy.

      Many of the younger Saudi Royals are terrible alcoholics who also abuse drugs behind closed doors, cruising around the streets in gold-plated luxury cars. And if they behave like that at home you can imagine the decadence they show when abroad. They only get sobered up for Friday prayers when they are in the public eye.

      Camlost

      January 3, 2016 at 7:51 pm

      • The entirety of upper-class Europe knows this, having had to suffer Saudi “royals” at some point or the other. Most have tens if not hundreds of concubines with whom they have had children so the insufferable behavior will likely continue in perpetuity. It’s not sustainable, particularly the way the Islamic world is now. Best advice for the US government would be to convert to solar en masse and nuke the entirety of the Middle East into a giant, glass parking lot.

        Vladivostok 2000

        January 6, 2016 at 2:30 am

  13. Anybody sees a problem with this guy being executed?

    Yakov

    January 3, 2016 at 9:34 pm

  14. Lion, this is the voice of reason that you are looking for.

    Yakov

    January 3, 2016 at 9:41 pm

  15. A great man speaking the words of truth

    Yakov

    January 3, 2016 at 10:04 pm

  16. Yakov

    January 4, 2016 at 1:26 am

  17. Yakov: all Shiites should be executed. Good work by the Saudis.

    For everybody writing off Rubio because of his low poll numbers: Kerry was also an afterthought in the polling at this point in the race. Then he had an unexplainable late surge in IA and the rest is history.

    Otis the Sweaty

    January 4, 2016 at 5:36 am

    • You are a pretty bloodthirsty chap. Say, you were born a Shiite, where do you think you would be today?

      Here you have a Shiite and a Sunny talking sense and all you can they is that everybody should be executed?

      Yakov

      January 4, 2016 at 11:49 am


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