Lion of the Blogosphere

Not enough children of color in computer science?

Huffington Post headline reads Obama Wants More Girls And Kids Of Color To Learn Computer Science

A comment reads:

Not enough “kids of color” in computer science? Last I checked their were plenty of Asians and Indians in the computer science field.

Ha ha.

Here’s a more serious comment:

I feel like president Obama and the 9 out of 10 parents should first understand what computer science actually means before making statements like that. Saying that computer science is a fundamental skill to have, is like saying that particle physics is a fundamental skill to have. Troubleshooting computers and maintaining computer networks is not computer science, so is not programming. Just like a physicist, Computer Scientists are interested in understanding fundamental principles about the universe. We know that there is gravity but we certainly do not expect anyone to know about gravitational laws if they do not wish to know, why forcing them? I think what the president and the parents actually mean is practical computer skills such as programming, networking and troubleshooting.

I agree that more children, including white children, should be exposed to practical computer skills. Just as I had typing when I was in the sixth grade, it’s even more important for today’s children to have computer skills, and programming ought to be taught as a required subject for college-bound students.

We should also restrict immigration from India so that American young people can get jobs in IT.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

January 30, 2016 at 1:16 PM

63 Responses

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  1. What’s the beef with that rag? I see plenty of blacks with sale foams.


    January 30, 2016 at 1:20 PM

  2. America has many ways of implying “black” without separating out other minorities, but they usually mean black. The NAACP showed up on a job site and told me “We don’t hire enough minorities” so I politely pointed out that I’m the only white person and could they get us more whites. So they told me they meant blacks, and that we needed to hire two, which surprised me because unless the blacks we got spoke Spanish the diversity posed a serious safety risk in the work area with demolition going on. Moral of the story: We hired the blacks they got us, one was a wonderful fellow, the other was horrible and sued us for everything she could imagine- and lost, but winning cost us more in legal fees than it was worth, so in retrospect it felt like a shakedown because of one bad worker.


    January 30, 2016 at 1:39 PM

    • Can you get us a hardworking, detail-oriented, non-resentful, non-litigious black? No? Well, now you understand why we hire Hispanics…


      January 30, 2016 at 3:48 PM

    • You hired 2 particular black workers just because the NAACP asked you to? This seems bizarre to me.

      James B. Shearer

      January 30, 2016 at 7:31 PM

  3. Kind of OT, but black nerds – e.g. black anime nerds – are good guys. They are good company for those who share their interests, and they are not belligerent or resentful. They tend to be very spectrumy though, so you have to be comfortable with that.


    January 30, 2016 at 1:41 PM

    • Tennessee Coates is a comics nerd, so don’t count on it.


      January 30, 2016 at 3:45 PM

      • He might not be a true nerd. Sometimes people fake it.


        January 30, 2016 at 5:19 PM

      • Genius T. Coates is a black nerd who would sell out his fellow white nerds in a heartbeat to keep black thugs off his back.

        MEH 0910

        January 31, 2016 at 11:20 AM

  4. When you have an article written by a White Shiksa bimbo or a Yenta, that features a picture of brown children, which is meant to address the black underclass — only idiots read stuff like that!


    January 30, 2016 at 1:59 PM

  5. way off topic. whit stillman has a new movie


    January 30, 2016 at 3:34 PM

  6. Second comment is true enough. “Computer science” (unlike programming) is really boring, and really hard.


    January 30, 2016 at 3:46 PM

    • reminds me of when I went back to school in my 30s, and a very elderly friend thought my taking Economics was very wise. I realized later he thought it was more like home ec and managing housing expenses. Also he thought Diplomacy was how to be polite, rather than political history. Needless to say he was completely baffled by the Basic programming class I told him about.

      I wonder how many of these wags giving advice really have a clue about STEM fields.

      Mrs Stitch

      January 30, 2016 at 11:02 PM

      • I wonder how many of these wags giving advice really have a clue about STEM fields.

        Good point. I’ve often thought the same thing. It seems like the biggest cheerleaders for studying CS are journalists and politicians – innumerate folks who never have and never would study the field, and probably wouldn’t really want their children to do so.

        E. Rekshun

        January 31, 2016 at 1:55 PM

  7. I’m certain Barack and Michele Obama never took a Computer Science class and certainly don’t want Sasha and Malia to study Computer Science.

    E. Rekshun

    January 30, 2016 at 4:15 PM

    • Malia wants to be a model.

      I have a feeling that girl is going to provide hours of reality TV like entertainment in a few years.

      Mike Street Station

      January 31, 2016 at 9:02 AM

  8. What Obama should have said is that there’s not enough whites majoring in Computer Science.

    I’ve represented different software companies at more than 15+ college career fairs. American whites just aren’t majoring in computer science in high enough numbers, it’s a fact. College kids today don’t want to do the tedious and technical work it takes to build a career in programming. The bulk of early-career Computer Science jobs involve paying your dues doing tech support, QA or debugging – not everyone is going to have the ability or luck to be a glamorous product meister like Steve Jobs or rake in $15 million off the mobile app they just created before they even collect their CS degree.

    I’m no fan of the H-1B program, but American culture is partly to blame for its rise. When the Zuckerburgs of the world employ H-1Bs they do so for several reasons of reasons relating to cost and flexibility, but also availability of skillset.

    And blacks don’t often have the attention span or abstract thinking that it takes to be a programmer of any real skill. Obama’s comment is laughable. Black programmers do exist but they’re extremely rare, and usually end up in less-demanding programming roles within Public Sector or the Telecoms, rather than at hyper competitive startups or in cutting edge tech at Silicon Valley where you put in 90+ hours per week and have to compete hard to make sure that you’re pulling your weight. Talented tenth blacks can make an easier living elsewhere, in fields like politics where the black tendency towards extraversion is important – coding is overwhelmingly the domain of introverts.


    January 30, 2016 at 5:03 PM

    • As a mediocre web developer myself the H-1B program directly targets me and people like me. There are only so many jobs for mediocrities like me and Indian slave laborers can do anything I can do much cheaper. That is what H-1B’s are about. There are literally hundreds of thousands of unemployed in the tech industry who have CS degrees.

      Otis the Sweaty

      January 30, 2016 at 5:59 PM

      • Unemployment rates for those with a college degree are supposed to be under 4.5% right now, even lower for those with a STEM degree like CS. I’m not saying those numbers aren’t debatable.

        What should be happening is that companies should be forced to find American tech workers and pay to retool/train them with tweaked, specific or updated skills that will enable them to fill the roles that H-1Bs are taking.


        January 30, 2016 at 8:22 PM

      • Mama don’t let your boys be prolegrammers.

        As our Lion has previously documented, you never develop significant human capital because of technology churn and are out around 40 or so. Not a good career path. Research scientist is probably worse though (go STEM!), where you end up a poorly paid teaching temp in your 40s after endless grinding as a postdoc.


        January 31, 2016 at 3:44 AM

      • Dont flatter yourself that much. I do not believe that the H1B people are paid that less. In other words, if you are thinking that much lower wages are all that is needed to replace you, you are overestimating your own earning capacity or your knowledge and skills.

        I was an H1b programmer a decade and a half ago. Came to US to study at university (prole midwest) and after graduation got into a software company in southern california. Not a high flying start-up but a mature small software company (although #1 in its market). Right now, the largest concentration of programmers/developers in this company is Indians, right after americans and canadians. I do not believe that H1b programmers are paid that much less, maybe a little. Yes, of course the average programmer makes a lot more in silicon valley compared to here in southern california but that’s neither here nor there because of cost of living.

        Just in my group of 8 people, we have 3 H1B developers who bought houses in last 2 months in mid 500k range in very nice suburb cities in southern california and I doubt they are getting paid 30%-40% less than the market rate. I know you guys are only impressed by million dollar houses in nyc but these really are in desirably neighbourhoods with great schools. Point is, the argument that all (or most) H1b are all in usa only because the company can pay them sub-standard wages and they got nothing else going for them is really false. I am sure there are H1B programmers who get paid much less but that’s not everywhere or even that prevalent.


        January 31, 2016 at 11:58 AM

      • As our Lion has previously documented, you never develop significant human capital because of technology churn and are out around 40 or so.

        If you’re still doing coding at 40 you’re either an idiot or too anti-social and introverted to move into other areas of business within software.

        The goal is to code for a maximum of 10 years, and then move into other areas like project/program management, consulting, personnel management, etc. (or find good partners and create your own services firm or start-up)


        January 31, 2016 at 1:36 PM

      • wt: you are a scab and have no right to be in this country.

        I don’t flatter myself. I am a terrible programmer. As are a large chuck of H 1B’s, perhaps a majority.

        Nobody is talking about preventing businesses from bringing in elite talent for positions that pay, say, 300k+ a year. But any job in the 40 to 60 range and any American company is going to prefer scab Indian labor over American, even when the Indian labor is not as good and certainly when the Indian labor is equal or better.

        Otis the Sweaty

        January 31, 2016 at 3:07 PM

    • You’re putting the cart before the horse. More white students would major in computer science if employers weren’t outsourcing tech jobs to India or importing H-1B visa workers to undercut their wages.


      January 30, 2016 at 8:38 PM

    • Dont flatter yourself that much. I do not believe that the H1B people are paid that less.

      H-1Bs are paid a LOT less, especially for the first few years of their 7 years on H-1B.

      The H-1Bs that you described as settling down and buying houses are the cream of the crop for H-1Bs, and probably with a very rare and marketable skillset. They’re the type that will have their Green Card within 1-2 years max. And H-1Bs usually have many years of experience back in India before they even come to the USA for their first year working, so they ought to be able to hit the ground running.

      A typical type of role filled by an H-1B – Microsoft needs a QA tester with automation experience for a 9-month contract in Redmond. They’re going to pay a bill rate of $70 per hour to the visa holder of that H-1B. An H-1B will gladly relocate from 5 states away to fill that role, that $70 bill rate is plenty high enough for both of them to make money, while white Americans are reluctant to relocate at the drop of a hat and would want 2-3 times that rate for a short-term contract.

      The H-1B program has created an ecosystem of short-term contracting that just wouldn’t work at all for native white americans. If the H-1B program ended tomorrow there would have to be massive changes to how the big tech employers find their contract labor.


      January 31, 2016 at 1:58 PM

  9. If my kids ever take a computer programming class, I’ll think it is a waste of time. If they go into a computer programming field I will have failed as a parent. In the near future it will be an industry entirely comprised of 3rd world grinds and technical college dopes.

    For every Zuckerberg or Gates there are 9,999 aspergy betas slowly dying in cubicle. And you don’t need to know much about programming to be Zuckerberg or Gates now. You need to have a marketable idea and the gumption and bankroll to put said programming dopes to work.


    January 30, 2016 at 5:27 PM

    • Slowly dying in a cubicle making six figures by 30…


      January 30, 2016 at 10:15 PM

      • That sounds horrible. And not just because it would be a 90% pay cut for me.


        February 1, 2016 at 1:16 AM

    • Whenever LOTB posts yet another blog entry about the supposedly pathetic world of computer programming, he unleashes a veritable avalanche of some of the most mean-spirited and/or self-loathing comments available on the web. Give it a rest, haters! What do you expect young folks to do nowadays? Go to law school? Join the army and get their balls blown off in some useless war in the Middle East? Go back to their alma mater to take organic chemistry, and then spend ten years in med school, an internship and a residency, up to their elbows in blood and gore? And then what about all that sky-high malpractice insurance and those gigantic debts on their student loans that they’ll have to face afterwards? Or maybe they should qualify as plumbers and dunk those self-same elbows in feces all day long? I graduated magna cum laude with a humanities degree from a top 30 national university. I did well enough that my advisor told me I should apply to Harvard and Yale for graduate school. I even remember walking down the hall in the humanities building one day and heard a professor extolling a brilliant paper which, as I found out to my delight after listening a little while longer, I myself had written. But heterosexual WASP males had no chance of finding a teaching position, either then or now, so after floundering around for a few years, I spent five grand on a quickie six month programming course that I completed in two months – and I have been continuously employed ever since. And that was thirty years ago. I’ve spent more than half that time as a contractor, a few years here and there in management gigs, but otherwise working as a lead analyst/designer/programmer/technical writer & debugger with an income over $100,000 for the last twenty years. I work only 40 hours a week, interfacing with many bright people in a clean and quiet place, leaving plenty of time for my numerous hobbies and interests, not to mention communing with my splendid wife, and giving me enough money to pay off my mortgage on a Victorian house in a leafy Boston suburb, to indulge regularly in restaurant dining, and to have visited Europe four times in the last twelve years. (And, yes, I have no kids. If you have kids, fine – but some of us prefer not to commit ourselves to the grim cottage industry of family life to produce a commodity with which the world is already excessively well-supplied.) Back in the early nineties I DID consider graduate school for a while, scored triple 800’s on the GRE’s at a time when that was super hard to do, but relented at the last moment. I realized I might as well stay the course, and have not regretted it since. So go call me an “idiot” or an “Aspergery beta” if you want, but just look in the mirror first.

      The Whale

      February 3, 2016 at 10:44 AM

      • Comp Sci is considered a low status discipline in our shores, not so, in the country north of us!


        February 3, 2016 at 12:24 PM

  10. The just released Des Moines Register poll has Trump leading Cruz 28 to 23 and Hillary 45 to 42 over Sanders.

    The Undiscovered Jew

    January 30, 2016 at 7:36 PM

  11. before teaching black kids computer science, obama needs to teach them to read.


    January 30, 2016 at 7:49 PM

  12. Oh this is rich. So now Apple and Microsoft and Google have to have blacks in them? I just can’t wait for all the innovation. Like prototypes disappearing, property damage and of course the endless lawsuits when an idiot who has no idea what he’s doing sues for a Trillion Dollars for not being promoted.
    Isn’t having blacks around creating an unsafe work environment? They could flip out at any moment and start being all punch and stabby to everyone. I think their employees would rather have nuclear waste packaged in asbestos containers than blacks around.

    Joshua Sinistar

    January 30, 2016 at 7:52 PM

    • Microsoft and Google are actually somewhat insulated from OFCCP and EEOC scrutiny because of their location out in the Pacific Northwest, where there’s few blacks. During EEOC audits the first thing they scrutinize is the percentage of blacks you employ compared to the percentage blacks that living in the region.

      But we know what most of their blacks are in support, administration or softer technical areas like Project Management, with almost none in head-down coding.


      January 30, 2016 at 8:16 PM

    • I am sure they have their blacks mostly in HR, admin, facilities, and other non-mission-critical parts of the organization just like every other company that is forced to pay the diversity tax.


      January 31, 2016 at 3:13 AM

  13. Can someone elaborate on the difference between CS and programming skills? I want to become a programmer/developer (not glamorous but a BIG step up in respectability from my prole destiny) and have the aptitude to do so. it seems that a CS degree is a big part of being a strong candidate.


    January 30, 2016 at 8:25 PM

    • A CS degree from the most prestigious university you can get into will help you find a better career, but you will learn the mathematics of computer science and other hardcore stuff, and not how to program apps.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 30, 2016 at 9:48 PM

      • Lion–What universities would you recommend, exactly?


        January 31, 2016 at 11:44 AM

      • Princeton, because it’s most likely to lead to a job at a hedge fund.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 31, 2016 at 11:49 AM

      • Lion,

        Princeton over H, Y or S? I would think that any of those would give a person a shot at a career with hedge funds or investment banks. The people who don’t make it would be able to fall back on their CS careers, although as you mentioned they wouldn’t be getting as much practical training as the students at Prole U.


        January 31, 2016 at 10:53 PM

    • You don’t need a CS degree to become a programmer/developer, but you will have a huge step up on the competition. Basically you are guaranteed a decent job out of college as far as I can tell.


      January 30, 2016 at 10:16 PM

    • LotB is right about getting your CS degree at the most prestigious university you can get into; and do some internships in the industry while in school. My CS degree from a well-respected northeast university got me a $35K per year job with a large government defense contractor right out of school in ’85. Eventually, an MBA got me out of the code-monkey cubicle and on to more interesting work, but my old former CS coworkers are making 25% more money and able to retire in their 50s after 30 years in the business.

      E. Rekshun

      January 31, 2016 at 5:21 AM

      • CS is not prestigious in Meriprolestan, when all of our elites are value transference parasites!


        January 31, 2016 at 11:05 AM

  14. Nobody takes this shit seriously, Lion. Get with the times. It’s Trump time. No more PC bullshit!


    January 31, 2016 at 12:01 AM

  15. Trump 28, Cruz 23 in the Selzer poll. The last poll pre Iowa. This race is over.

    Now that we know Trump is going to win all 50 states, is he going to lose any territories? How will he do in PR?

    Otis the Sweaty

    January 31, 2016 at 1:04 AM

    • If he wins all 50 states, he’s be the first non-incumbent to do that since George H.W. Bush in 1992.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 31, 2016 at 1:20 AM

      • You agree he is going to win all 50 states, right? The only states he has any chance of losing in are IA and NH. After he wins those 2, every other state is a lock.

        Otis the Sweaty

        January 31, 2016 at 1:53 AM

      • If everyone rallies around Rubio like the Establishment hopes, Rubio might win his home state of Florida. Maybe.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 31, 2016 at 9:43 AM

      • Bush was the incumbent in 1992. Trump would be the first Republican ever to win all 50 states without being the incumbent president.

        Of course, the Republicans have only held a nominating contest in which citizens could participate since 1976. Before that, there were a few primaries and more caucuses but most of the delegates were appointed by party bosses and party bosses were appointed by previous party bosses Mexico-style.

        Which makes the Goldwater revolution in ’64 even more amazing.


        January 31, 2016 at 2:52 AM

      • Oops, I forgot my history, how embarassing.

        Bob Dole and Pat Robertson picked up a few states in 1988.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 31, 2016 at 9:44 AM

      • You mean 1988? H.W. was an incumbent in 1992.


        January 31, 2016 at 6:57 AM

      • Yeah, my mistake. H.W. lost some states in 88.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 31, 2016 at 9:46 AM

    • I still don’t think Trump can get enough first time voters through the caucus system to pull out a win, but hey it doesn’t matter. Trump is so far ahead in the rest of the country that he’s on a glide path to win the nomination.

      Mike Street Station

      January 31, 2016 at 9:46 AM

  16. Keep in mind that for learning to program in a real language like, say, C or assembly, you need an above average IQ. It would be a waste of time on most people. My programming classes in school were terrible, and I would have flunked them if I had not known programming before.

    I also think it’s a thankless job. Your code will most likely be replaced sometime, or it will become obsolete. If, instead, you write a nice essay or book, or paint or compose something, there is a higher chance you or someone else gets some value from it decades later.

    Frank S.

    January 31, 2016 at 2:44 AM

  17. If Bloomberg runs as an independent and splits the leftard vote, Trump could run the table.

    Nedd Ludd

    January 31, 2016 at 5:00 AM

    • We’re forgetting that Americans have never elected someone to the presidency who came straight out of the business world and didn’t have either political or military experience. Trump’s nomination would be unprecedented. I’m still skeptical that this will happen.


      January 31, 2016 at 10:13 AM

      • Trump’s ascendancy to presidential status will not signify a darn thing, when 3rd world filth is constantly swept under the rug to make the house look clean.


        January 31, 2016 at 11:32 AM

      • Because political “experience” is so vital. Military never hurts, but then again, haven’t had that in a few decades either.


        January 31, 2016 at 11:36 AM

  18. “wt: you are a scab and have no right to be in this country.”

    Aww, boo hoo. You good he bad cuz born here due good things? Pathetic.

    What makes the left embarrassing is its increasing embrace of tribal thinking. If that’s what the right is becoming, then it’s equally sad. Why stop at being white or crude nationalism? That’s still too Enlightenment! If you’re not my bother or my cousin, then fuck off! Go back to your side of the river.


    January 31, 2016 at 4:12 PM

    • Aww, boo hoo. You good he bad cuz born here due good things?


      Otis the Sweaty

      February 1, 2016 at 1:26 AM

  19. It’s been said that the best computer programmers are electrical engineers. They understand how data interacts with the system at the hardware level.


    January 31, 2016 at 11:42 PM

  20. More people should learn to dunk a basketball.


    February 1, 2016 at 7:27 AM

  21. I don’t work in software, but I work for a large solar company in the Silicon Valley. I would say that 30-40% of the people in the entire company are foreigners on visas. Out of 10 new grads that we just hired, 6 of them are foreigners on student visas. What really bothers me is that I know that American kids should be filling these jobs. American kids would add so much more cultural value to the organization. Who wants to socialize with workaholic Asians that have practically no life except work and chasing money?

    When hiring for these jobs, we are simply overwhelmed with the number of foreign applicants. It’s not that Americans don’t want these jobs, they are simply drowned out in the sheer number of applications from Visa holders that we get.

    My American coworkers play in bands, go rock climbing, coach their kids soccer teams, etc. This makes for a much more interesting work place.

    These new grads are also very wealthy Indians and Chinese that are using these jobs as a way to stay in the US, not pay the bills like an American kid would. These student visa types come from very wealthy families. They just graduated college and drive Porsches and BMWs, so they aren’t starving.


    February 1, 2016 at 8:03 AM

    • The only phenomenon to this issue, is that Whites are no longer interested in striving for material well being, by taking up as a grind serf.

      Our value transference elitists have won, and have understood that certain groups make good corporate minions, because they are petty materialists who will bend over for a buck. The same applies to NAMs at the lower end of the skill spectrum.


      February 1, 2016 at 2:08 PM

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