Lion of the Blogosphere

Why do black middle-class kids often become poor adults?

I recently came across an article from the Atlantic, and although it’s more than a year old, I wanted to respond to it.

Here’s the conclusion from this short article (and pretty much all you need to know about it):

Most economists lack a clear, definitive explanation for why, after reaching the middle class, many black American families quickly lose that status as their children fall behind.

There are three reasons (none of them especially politically correct):

(1) Many blacks who have middle-class jobs got their jobs through affirmative action and they are often government jobs where poor performance is tolerated. Thus many middle-class blacks don’t have the natural talents to be middle class, and they pass on their genes to their children.

(2) Middle-class blacks, compared to whites of the same income-strata, are more likely to waste their money on bling than save it to invest in their own and their children’s future. This is partially a function of middle-class blacks, because of the point I made in the reason above, having, on average, lower IQ than middle-class whites, and there is a strong correlation between IQ and future-time-oriented behavior.

(3) Because of who their relatives are, the neighborhoods they live in, and black kids’ natural affinity for hanging out with other kids of the same race, black kdis are disproportionately likely to hang out with kids who have ghetto values instead of middle-class values, and kids pick up their values from their peers.

I’ve long blogged about the importance of teaching middle-class values in the schools. If people actually listened to me, we could improve the behavior of black people (as well as poor whites and poor Hispanics) quite a bit and improve their life outcomes.

NOT REGRESSION TOWARDS THE MEAN FOLKS

This is one of the most over-cited things on HBD forums.

First of all, people don’t regress to the mean of their race, they regress to the mean of their great-grandparents. Because people tend to mate within their social strata, and that includes blacks mating with blacks, there isn’t the regression towards the racial mean that people think there is.

Secondly, most middle-class blacks have IQs between 85 and 100. You don’t need an exceptional IQ to get a government job via affirmative action. We are not talking about extreme outliers, we are talking about blacks that are just slightly higher in IQ than the average black (whose IQ is 85), so there really isn’t that far to regress.

Even a black kid with an IQ of 85, the average for the black race, could, with good values, take advantage of affirmative action to get a civil service job that pays a middle-class salary. And this is especially true if they get married. Two blacks, married to each other, each with affirmative-action civil service jobs, would be comfortably middle-class.

For a black woman, not having a baby before she gets married, and for a black man, not getting arrested, is a more important factor in attaining a middle-class income than having an exceptional IQ.

Regression towards the mean does a much better job of explaining why a white man and a white woman, who met at an Ivy League school, and bonded because they both come from blue-collar families, are very likely to have children who aren’t as educationally successful as their parents.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

March 11, 2016 at 1:03 pm

Posted in Biology, Economics

126 Responses

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  1. what about regression to the mean?

    james n.s.w

    March 11, 2016 at 1:07 pm

    • That’s massively overstated as being important on HBD forums.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 11, 2016 at 2:14 pm

      • I don’t disagree with your reasons. But I speculate that regression to the mean would be more pronounced in blacks than other races because of their greater genetic diversity. Genes work together as part of a genetic complex. But they get shuffled with each generation. Greater genetic diversity would tend to undermine genetic combinations contributing to above average intelligence in the parents more than groups with less genetic diversity. This affects lots of things not just intelligence. It’s one of the reasons mixed people have higher rates of mental illness and disease.

        destructure

        March 11, 2016 at 4:15 pm

      • Upon working out the numbers, I think you’re right Lion. Regression to the mean would matter if we were talking about the children of scientists, but we’re dealing with lower IQ professions. If we go with the shorthand that children get 60% of their parents IQ advantage above the population mean (as a mid point of the children’s IQ distribution), then the drop isn’t all that stark at fairly low levels of IQ. Figure blacks need 95-105 IQ to be ‘middle class’, the drop in children from 95 IQ parents is only 4 points to 91, from 105 IQ parents, its 7 points, bigger but it still leaves the children at an expected value of 97, which is enough to get a middle class income because of AA. The effect would be much bigger if AA didn’t distort the labor market by lowering the bar. The drop from 120 IQ would be 14 points! The drop from 130 would be 18 points! However, as long as parents’ genes can get them over 95 IQ, that should be enough, provided they don’t self sabotage, which the rest of your post dealt with.

        Justin

        March 11, 2016 at 4:17 pm

      • The drop is said to only be 20% not 40%, and a black doesn’t need a 105 IQ to be middle class (as defined by the Atlantic which would mean an average income), what with all the affirmative action they can take advantage of.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 11, 2016 at 4:38 pm

  2. Regression to the mean. It’s a real thing.

    Great Again

    March 11, 2016 at 1:16 pm

  3. I have a much simpler explanation: regression to (or towards) the mean.

    ruhkukah

    March 11, 2016 at 1:18 pm

    • It’s not a simpler explanation and it’s massively overstated on HBD forums.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 11, 2016 at 2:15 pm

      • Of course it means regression towards the mean of your last two generations (not towards that of your race, as many HBDers imply), but black kids from middle class families are much more likely to have poor/dumb grandparents.

        ruhkukah

        March 11, 2016 at 2:20 pm

      • Actually, you’re wrong. Regression can be precisely quantified, as per the breeder’s equation discussed in the above link.

        Where HBD folks get it wrong is that they think regression goes on forever, when it is in fact a one-time phenomenon.

        By contrast, as per behavioral genetic evidence, none of the points you mention (like parents or neighborhoods) have any importance to outcomes here.

        JayMan

        March 11, 2016 at 2:31 pm

      • JayMan, your 100% genetic determinism isn’t supported by the evidence. Consider bastardy rates. 72% of the babies borne by black women are bastards. 29% of the babies borne by white women are bastards. Do genetics play a huge part in the difference? Of course. But let’s also remember that blacks once had a bastardy rate of 24%. Have blacks changed genetically since 1965? Sure, a little. Not anywhere enough to explain the changes since then.

        T

        March 11, 2016 at 3:09 pm

      • T,

        Environment has minimal role in the differences within cohorts, but does play a role in the differences between cohorts.

        Why is that so hard for people to understand?

        JayMan

        March 11, 2016 at 10:17 pm

      • Repeat five times: Let’s dispel this notion that Lion doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He knows exactly what he is talking about.

        gothamette

        March 11, 2016 at 4:07 pm

      • @T

        Check this out:

        See the paper by Ruggles.

        http://www.hist.umn.edu/~ruggles/Articles/Af-Am-fam.pdf

        Blacks from 1880 to 1960 were two to 3 times more likely to grow up with out a father than Whites.

        Analysis confirms that the high incidence of black Americans of single parenthood and children residing without their parents is not a recent phenomenon. Data shows that from 1880 through 1960, black children were two to three times more likely to reside without one or both children than white parents. This directly goes in the face of what liberals say is the cause of the demise of the black family structure. Ever since blacks have been free from slavery has this begun to happen. As well as the other cite about testosterone and parenting.

        I personally think a huge part of the reason for single mother hood increase in the black community is due to them being able to court white women. Kanazawa’s paper on testosterone making them less desirable is the cause. When restrictions were lifted, they were able to get white women. This is part of cause. As well as:

        http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/276/1655/347

        There are testosterone differences between blacks and whites. On top of those testosterone differences, men who stay and raise children have, on average, lower testosterone. This was noted in the West, but non-Western samples gave differing numbers. The study was conducted in two East African populations from Tanzania, Hadza foragers and Datoga pastoralists. They predicted that high levels of paternal care by the Hadza fathers would be associated with lower testosterone,and that no difference would be found in non-fathers and fathers of Datoga men, who provide direct paternal care. The measurements in both populations confirmed the hypothesis, as well as adding further support that decreased testosterone leads to more paternal care.

        @JayMan

        Your post on regression to the mean changed my view on it. I used to be one of the many to think they regressed until they hit the mean of the race, but I obviously was wrong.

        Good post.

        RaceRealist

        March 14, 2016 at 6:01 pm

  4. Regression to the mean on IQ and other traits. See Rushton.

    Hepp

    March 11, 2016 at 1:18 pm

  5. Rushton on regression to the mean.

    Hepp

    March 11, 2016 at 1:20 pm

  6. Isn’t regression to the mean hugely important?

    Justin

    March 11, 2016 at 1:26 pm

  7. Number three probably has more to do with it than anything. Black culture, unlike white culture, doesn’t have a lot of variations to it. There is no white equivalent to “keeping it real.” So there is a constant pull culturally of the lowest common denominator.

    Mike Street Station

    March 11, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    • I agree #3 is likely the strongest deterrent to continuing a middle class trajectory. Where I used to live my neighbors on one side were a puerto rican family. Married, the father nypd, mother a SAHM born again christian (who was always trying to convert us). You’d think this would provide a stable family unit and middle class children.

      But the kids started fraternizing with ghetto kids and before you knew it they were hanging out on the corner acting like thugs. One of the daughters got pregnant in high school.

      It’s cool and admirable in the ghetto to shirk middle class mores and kids are incredibly vulnerable to influence from their peers. So if this happened in a middle class hispanic family, imagine how much worse it’s going to be for blacks where their entire culture is drenched in ghettodom.

      Wasn’t Trayvon Martin from a middle class background? Yet he engaged in plenty of thug behavior. Being middle class is probably a source of embarrassment for kids like him.

      Whereas I don’t believe whites, even lower class whites, have admiration for the criminal element. Trashy whites are always the subject of scorn and ridicule. And there’s nothing even remotely on the radar for asians in terms of embracing thug culture.

      However this could be a chicken egg thing vis a vis IQ. After all my kids were in the same neighborhood, in some cases attended the same schools, yet when exposed to the underbelly would either look on in wide eyed disbelief or come home with snarky, hilariously delivered stories. It never seemed to permeate who they were in any meaningful way.

      slithy toves

      March 12, 2016 at 8:07 am

      • the vietnamese and filipina in the west coast are attracted to hispanic culture in west coast and texas. So its no unheard of.

        unam

        March 12, 2016 at 5:43 pm

      • True. I was thinking along the lines of chinese/ japanese/ taiwanese. Philippino/ vietnamese are a different story. After all, they hustle their children for sex.

        slithy_toves

        March 13, 2016 at 7:20 pm

  8. “…black kdis are disproportionately likely to hang out with kids who have ghetto values instead of middle-class values, and kids pick up their values from their peers.

    “I’ve long blogged about the importance of teaching middle-class values in the schools. If people actually listened to me, we could improve the behavior of black people (as well as poor whites and poor Hispanics) quite a bit and improve their life outcomes.”

    Bullshiiiiiiiit. Middle class black kids fall down the social ladder so often because they’re regressing to a lower mean. It’s a tragedy, and no one’s “fault”, but it is a fact.

    It’s fucking retarded, how conservatives have just as much faith in the perfectibility of man as any progressive. You can teach “middle-class” values til you’re blue in the gills; a huge hunk of people won’t be able to absorb them. And heywhaddayaknow, as a group they’re going to look exactly like you think they will.

    Jesse

    March 11, 2016 at 1:27 pm

  9. ‘I’ve long blogged about the importance of teaching middle-class values in the schools.’.

    How? Specifics pls.

    Yakov

    March 11, 2016 at 1:28 pm

  10. Oh but Lion, you left out the real reason: INSTITUTIONAL RACISM AND EVIL WHITE MALES!

    Power_Ball

    March 11, 2016 at 1:28 pm

  11. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/why-trump-has-it-backwards-on-minority-groups/473064/

    This article is great about documenting our civilizational decline, and has almost nothing to do with Trump other than the title.

    The third-worldification of our society is inevitable because demographics is destiny.

    jjbees

    March 11, 2016 at 1:33 pm

  12. Regression toward the mean, in other words.

    ice hole

    March 11, 2016 at 1:43 pm

  13. Can you cite any hard evidence for these conclusions or are these just your gut feelings?

    Ghoul

    March 11, 2016 at 1:44 pm

  14. “I’ve long blogged about the importance of teaching middle-class values in the schools. If people actually listened to me, we could improve the behavior of black people (as well as poor whites and poor Hispanics) quite a bit and improve their life outcomes.”

    I wish I could believe that “schools” and teachers or social workers can teach anything about values. If the people and their offspring haven’t learned from role models in their families and communities, I suspect it’s too late by the time they get to school and educators can’t hope to compete with “Hollywood” values.

    What is so distressing about American culture is the idolization of the rebellious, disruptive and asocial. Prosocial constructive behavior and sincerity have no hope against the swaggering culture of “cool.”

    If parents drink soft drinks and eat junk food while insisting that their kids drink milk and eat their vegetables, what should we expect the kids to do when they are on their own? If parents don’t read at home or cultivate any constructive hobbies and continuously learn and educate themselves, how can we expect their offspring to develop intrinsic curiosity and a love of learning that will serve them throughout life?

    So many make much of possible hereditary deficiencies in Black Americans for explaining any achievement gaps. That may be possible, but there also is so much particular to Black American culture that rebels against conforming to established social norms of achievement thus making integration and social mobility unlikely. Perhaps the rebellious attitudes can be rationalized as a reaction to past discrimination but they’re also doubtlessly excusing failure or unwillingness to even try.

    I’m sure our host the Lion has seen this one…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/30/arts/why-are-black-students-lagging.html?pagewanted=all

    https://www.aei.org/publication/closing-the-racial-gap-in-education/

    ”What amazed me is that these kids who come from homes of doctors and lawyers are not thinking like their parents; they don’t know how their parents made it,” Professor Ogbu said in an interview. ”They are looking at rappers in ghettos as their role models, they are looking at entertainers. The parents work two jobs, three jobs, to give their children everything, but they are not guiding their children.”

    Of course when the good professor shared his uncomfortable conclusions, rather than taking a hard look at themselves and trying to make useful adjustments, he was drummed out of town…

    Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

    March 11, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    • “I wish I could believe that “schools” and teachers or social workers can teach anything about values.”

      Right now, they’re not even trying. How about they actually try to do this before we give up?

      Tarl

      March 11, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    • Really an excellent analysis, Thin-Skinned.

      Nobody knows how to reverse a virtuous culture’s slide into decadence and corruption. Bernard Lewis, in a chapter titled “Ottoman Observers of Ottoman Decline,” wrote about the many Ottoman thinkers who had a complete understanding of why their society was in decline. They articulated the problems and the remedies with perfect clarity, but the rot that destroyed the Ottoman Empire from within was like an irreversible force of nature.

      Mark Caplan

      March 11, 2016 at 8:23 pm

      • Ottomans went into decline like most Oriental Societies. The lack of openness to learn new things, in particular, science and industrialization (or what many of us call Westernization), was its downfall. Furthermore, their elites were so parochial minded and socially enclosed, when it comes to their social status (similar to many of our big city bobos), that they were of no use or relevance, when a more aggressive and dynamic demographic with less prestige was to overthrow them. I can think of Ataturk and the rise of the Turkish Republic.

        America does not appear to be anything resembling the downfall of the Ottomans or most empires, simply our population regardless of racial background, have been kept in a lull with a modern day “bread and circuses”.

        JS

        March 12, 2016 at 1:36 pm

      • What’s the name of the book by Bernard Lewis?

        Yakov

        March 12, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    • So beta masta – have you found your dream town where self actualization is abound, and there are no NAMs and even proles/SWPLs to give you a hard time?

      Lion and his NYC readers should have now understood that the concept of money is the only thing that reigns in America, especially in Manhattan and other similar towns like SF. Silicon Valley does not exist for sheer creativity purposes.

      JS

      March 12, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    • The underclass of Black kids can barely read or write; how likely that they can learn a new system of morality & ethics from books and lectures?

      silberstreak

      March 12, 2016 at 10:33 pm

      • Very likely. Middle class values is just a habit of behaving a certain way. It’s not an intellectual exercise. If we can train a dog only to pee outside and not indoors, we can train humans do to a lot more.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 12, 2016 at 10:47 pm

      • We still don’t know what are these ‘middle class values’ that Lion is talking about. Some think it involves learning from books and lectures, but Lion thinks all it needs is training like a dog. Lion, will you explain your proposition finally, you are being annoying.

        Yakov

        March 13, 2016 at 7:21 am

    • Schools and teachers are meaningless. The demographics matter. They have these kids all they could ask. All the money in the world. Look what happened.

      http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

      RaceRealist

      March 14, 2016 at 6:03 pm

  15. Point 3 is probably the most important. I’ve noticed a similar dynamic in the Mexican side of my family. My grandparents were very pro-assimilation and made sure their seven kids loved middle white America. Nearly all of my aunts married gueros, ascended quickly to lower or middle middle class status, and moved from South L.A. to the L.A. suburbs. However, some of my grandparent’s children were better than others at cutting off all contact with the extended family members who failed to assimilate so well. Some of their kids grew up returning frequently to the city, hanging out with their cool gangbanger cousins, while others (myself included) were not allowed to hang out with the cool gangbanger cousins back in the city.

    I was pissed at the time. Why can’t I hang out with Tia Carmen’s family? They’re bad ass! Well, now I’m in academia while some of my cousins, much to the chagrin of their middle class parents, are quickly reverting to a less affluent life than even my immigrant grandparents had.

    Seth Long

    March 11, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    • Seth, I don’t know which state you are from but I have several friends from Texas, both Mexican-American & Anglo, and both have told me something interesting, which I might not have noticed on my own. English-speaking 2nd gen. Texas-born Mex-Ams do not speak English with a Texas accent. They speak English with a general television-style American accent.

      What gives? My own explanation is that they do not want to be white Texans, but they do want to be Americans. I find this quite fascinating.

      gothamette

      March 11, 2016 at 4:10 pm

      • Can’t say. I’m from Southern California. But I imagine your explanation is generally correct. There are still significant numbers of Mexicans who value assimilation to American norms (30-35% vote Republican in every election).

        What’s funny is that some of my family members who grew up in the hood have a Chicano accent, but not a one speaks Spanish.

        Seth Long

        March 12, 2016 at 11:54 am

  16. Actually, with the partial exception of the first point, it is none of those things. The reason is simple: regression to the mean – which is in fact is very important and is a corner stone of evolutionary theory.

    JayMan

    March 11, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    • You are misunderstanding the significance of regression towards the mean.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 11, 2016 at 2:32 pm

      • Unfortunately, I think you’re misunderstanding it here. See the linked post.

        It’s worth remembering that all phenotypes that have additive genetic influence, but are less than 100% additively genetically determined will show regression between generations. This includes SES (particularly rank-order SES) and personality, etc.

        This is fundamental to HBD as per the breeder’s equation.

        JayMan

        March 11, 2016 at 2:34 pm

      • I think that regression toward the mean goes something like this:

        Children do not inherit the most obvious traits of their parents. They inherit traits at random from the entire human genome of both parents. This is why tall people don’t keep getting taller or short people don’t keep getting shorter.

        It’s also why if two geniuses marry, it’s not necessarily true that the kids will be geniuses. The obviously expresses trait will not always be inherited.

        map

        March 12, 2016 at 1:40 pm

  17. “Secondly, most middle-class blacks have IQs between 85 and 100. ”

    Source?

    Jesse

    March 11, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    • Common sense? It’s almost impossible to hold down a middle class job with an IQ below 85. The average black IQ is 85. There aren’t a ton of black people north of 100. 15% of the black population at most. Ergo…

      Jonah

      March 11, 2016 at 4:41 pm

      • That reminds me of my favorite joke:

        What do you call a White girl with an IQ of 80? Mildly mentally retarded.

        What do you call a black girl with an IQ of 80? Average.

        The answer to blacksliding is obviously regression to the mean, duh: A black couple blessed with an IQ of 98 will do much better in life than their likely 83-IQ chilluns, regardless of the middle-class behaviors displayed by Mom and Dad. Tard gonna tard!

        hard9bf

        March 11, 2016 at 6:34 pm

      • Also, Lion is confusing cause and effect. The meanly regressed black chilluns with IQ circa 85 are attracted to thug life because it’s a cognitively undemanding deathstyle. People with IQ circa 85 aren’t attracted to highfalutin intellectual stuff like reading, mathing, and academic achievement the way 100-IQ people are — it’s way to HARD. Even well-paying manual trades require significant literacy and numeracy (there’s lots of tests, classes, certifications, and other bookwork that drum out the dummies) as do bureaucratic gubmint jobs. Meanly regressed blacks (and Whites) with an IQ circa 85 have profound difficulties learning to read and write, so they’re locked out of Mom and Dad’s career path; ergo: thug life.

        hard9bf

        March 11, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    • @Jesse
      http://library.flawlesslogic.com/iq.htm

      Many, are you black?

      Yakov

      March 12, 2016 at 7:51 pm

  18. “For a black woman, not having a baby before she gets married…is a more important factor in attaining a middle-class income than having an exceptional IQ.”

    DUDE. For fuck’s sake,cite your fucking sources. This is no better than Conservatism Inc.

    Jesse

    March 11, 2016 at 2:51 pm

    • We should know by now that if you’re diligent enough you can find “sources” that will say anything that the cathedral establishment wants us to believe. If the hypothesis is too controversial nobody who makes it through the filter into academia can possibly imagine any kind of thought crime of that kind.

      If your read the arguments of the academics in the article I list for example, you’ll notice that all the social scientists adhering to the popular conventional wisdom who reject Professor Ogbu’s conclusions blame everything, the racist schools, the racist society, the exclusion of the families from “informal social networks” etc. etc…. everything except what might be in the parents and families control. A terribly disempowering perspective that blames everybody else to excuse mistakes and behavior that could clearly be improved and adjusted.

      The conventional wisdom of popular academia is clearly often faith based science. They believe that racism is to blame and the Blacks are innocent and blameless in everything. Find the theories and hypothesis to confirm…

      We don’t even need to say they’re guilty or bad or anything. We could do it like the coaches do. Coaches and trainers don’t call athletes bad or guilty if they don’t win… only if they don’t make the effort and don’t take advantage of the feedback, tools and resources available for them to correct and improve their results.

      Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

      March 11, 2016 at 3:11 pm

      • “A terribly disempowering perspective that blames everybody else to excuse mistakes and behavior that could clearly be improved and adjusted.”

        Aw, look at the lil SJW, talking about empowerment.

        High rates of out of wedlock births correlate highly with social dysfunction, but they don’t cause it. The same people who are doing badly as the children of single mothers would do just as badly if they had the same genes and their parents signed a piece of paper.

        “Coaches and trainers don’t call athletes bad or guilty if they don’t win… only if they don’t make the effort and don’t take advantage of the feedback, tools and resources available for them to correct and improve their results.”

        Coaches, as a rule, coach a self selected group of people. The truly hopeless, at the very least, aren’t there. And they tend to have far more realistic ideas about innate ability.

        Jesse

        March 11, 2016 at 4:13 pm

      • “High rates of out of wedlock births correlate highly with social dysfunction, but they don’t cause it.”

        For instance, obviously, but it could apply to an awful lot of things.

        Jesse

        March 11, 2016 at 4:16 pm

      • The benefits of marriage work in both directions.

        Obviously, an out of wedlock birth makes it a lot harder for a woman to get into a career or find a good husband with a good career. DEFINITELY an out-of-wedlock birth directly causes worse life outcomes. Only anti-abortion Christian nuts would try to argue against that.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 11, 2016 at 4:37 pm

      • “DEFINITELY an out-of-wedlock birth directly causes worse life outcomes.”

        Correlation is not the same thing as causation. You might be able to prove that they’re worse off than if they hadn’t had children, if for no other reason than their money is now being split 2+ ways. What you cannot prove is that marrying before having those children would’ve improved anything once you take genetics into account.

        Jesse

        March 11, 2016 at 5:21 pm

  19. The explanation shoud be the same as the reason why as the average IQ of black was in the early 1920′ two standard deviation under the average white IQ (100) and the gap as narrowed until the 1960′ to one standard deviation, the move has stopped during 40 years, and is even beginning to widen again since 2000.

    I thing social aspect should be the reason.

    Most HBD don’t take into consideration the epigenetic. If your IQ is higly inherited, it moves with generations. For example, Dutch people were one of the shortest people in Europe at the beginning of the century (as portugesish) and now they are the second tallest after Montenegran people (who were already the tallest). If they have had an average evolution, Dutch male shoud be on average 5,5 ft and they are 6’06 ft .

    So the people habits has change their genetic material. It’s the same among north corean and south corean : they were the same high, and now there is a 30 cm difference among the people.

    So find the reason why the gap between black and white has hugely diminished in the first 45 years and has stopped since 50 years, and that explain why they don’t succeed to keep status.

    Bruno from Paris

    March 11, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    • The problem is comparing the Dutch to other Europeans, who they are genetically identical to. Try comparing to pygmys. Even after famines, Dutch would be taller than pygmys living in Netherlands pigging out on modern diet.

      Toad

      March 11, 2016 at 8:30 pm

    • “Most HBD don’t take into consideration the epigenetic”

      Epigenetics is the new Lysenkoism.

      Mike Street Station

      March 12, 2016 at 7:19 am

    • For example, Dutch people were one of the shortest people in Europe at the beginning of the century (as portugesish) and now they are the second tallest after Montenegran people (who were already the tallest). If they have had an average evolution, Dutch male shoud be on average 5,5 ft and they are 6’06 ft .

      Has to do with better nutrition.

      RaceRealist

      March 14, 2016 at 6:09 pm

  20. I’m with Lion here. I’ve seen plenty of dimwitted whites and Latinos who don’t end up poor. I think part of the problem is they don’t inherit any money from their parents, which really helps. They do also have a reckless and heedless attitude towards money.

    One thing that stands out about blacks is the near total lack of small family businesses. That’s the reason why generation after generation you see outsiders running small businesses in black communities. The only small businesses I see in black communities are West Indian. I truly do think this is a legacy of American slavery, where blacks looked to “the man” for everything. West Indian blacks are also descendants of slaves but in all-black countries they had to have some black enterprise.

    gothamette

    March 11, 2016 at 4:14 pm

    • “One thing that stands out about blacks is the near total lack of small family businesses. That’s the reason why generation after generation you see outsiders running small businesses in black communities.”

      Honey. No. Yes, the average IQ of blacks is lower but they totally could run small businesses if the govt wasn’t all about importing unfair competition. Like it or not, Af-Ams were here first and their ancestors neither begged to be let in nor infiltrated. Importing Koreans was profoundly unfair, especially since the Asian/Oriental business owners are known to refuse to play by the labor law rules. I might be the only racist who sympathizes with the rioters in LA who forced them out in the Rodney King riots.

      Jesse

      March 11, 2016 at 4:21 pm

      • @Jesse

        Yup, you are the only one. Koreans don’t stop anyone from opening a business or being successful in any way. They don’t go on welfare, they work hard, dont commit crimes, have good middle class values without being taught them in school. Like other immigrant groups they will pass through black neighborhoods on their way to success and other ethnic groups will take their place, but blacks will stay where they are. All they can do is destroy what others have build.

        Yakov

        March 11, 2016 at 5:30 pm

      • @Jesse,

        I’m not sure what about what I wrote you disagree with. You do see that W. Indians run small bidnesses, yeah? Why not native Af-Ams?

        ” especially since the Asian/Oriental business owners are known to refuse to play by the labor law rules.”

        All family businesses do this, Jesse. All family businesses are run on the margin, and exploit the labor of the family, often not paying anything. It happened in my family.

        About riots, see this:
        http://www.amazon.com/Great-Depression-The-Mario-Cuomo/dp/B001NNTGFS

        It’s quite good, but there is something in it that enraged me, and you’ve given me an opp’ty to bring it up.

        I refer to the section where there is a direct juxtaposition of the labor violence at Ford’s River Rouge factory and riots in Harlem on 125th St. during the Great Depression. But the comparison is totally specious. Ford is a big business that viciously repressed organizing during the worst crisis in US labor history. The riots in Harlem were carried out by blacks against small family businesses, just as the Rodney King riots were directed against Korean “interlopers.”

        I often dislike the hostile & contemptuous manner of Korean small business owners but their attitude doesn’t explain the cultural aversion on the part of Af-Ams to running businesses. There are a gazillion programs whose purpose is to help Af-Ams form businesses but it just doesn’t happen.

        Getting back to the Depression documentary, the blacks in Harlem rioted against small family businesses that survived on a thin margin. Yet they behaved as if someone else’s Pop owed them a job. I hate to say this, but…”they always do that.” This goes much deeper than economics. I think what stings them the most is that they do not have the patriarchs in their community that run small family businesses. A family business is always run by a tough tight-fisted patriarch. (Trump, anyone? cough cough)

        @Lion,
        Another reason why blacks slide back into poverty is because they don’t marry out of their community much. No cracks about black marriage participation rates, please, just sayin’. Marrying “up” is a great way to get out of poverty.

        gothamette

        March 11, 2016 at 6:28 pm

      • @ Yakov

        At the other end of the spectrum, what do you think of all the young secular Jews on the upper West Side, who are living the good life of inheritance, built up by their parents/ancestors?

        JS

        March 11, 2016 at 6:39 pm

      • I lived in Koreatown in LA for a year and I thought the Korean businesses were reasonably pleasant to patronize. I didn’t think they had a bad attitude, unlike the people at a lot of Chinese businesses. That was actually a very nice place for me to live. Much nicer than most neighborhoods I have been able to afford. I appreciated that.

        Perturabo

        March 11, 2016 at 11:32 pm

      • “They don’t go on welfare, they work hard, dont commit crimes, have good middle class values without being taught them in school. Like other immigrant groups they will pass through black neighborhoods on their way to success and other ethnic groups will take their place, but blacks will stay where they are.”

        Fuck’s sake. They’re not Americans. Americans owe them – or you, the great Medicaid using, tax dodging Russian parasite – nothing. They shouldn’t be there in the first place. Af-Ams could start businesses if the other groups weren’t there. Just like the more educated white Americans could easily do technology work if the corporations weren’t bussing in scab labor. Just like less educated white Americans could do blue collar work if it wasn’t for, basically, all of Latin America using the US as a toilet.

        Jesse

        March 12, 2016 at 11:29 am

      • “Af-Ams could start businesses if the other groups weren’t there.”

        Did you read what I wrote about the documentary about the Great Depression?

        Why didn’t they start businesses in Harlem? Why did they burn them down?

        gothamette

        March 12, 2016 at 12:39 pm

      • Blacks used to have lots of small businesses. But most of them closed after after segregration was banned. Immigration didn’t destroy black businesses. Integration did.

        destructure

        March 12, 2016 at 12:24 pm

      • Yakov,

        Korean businesses qualify as minority disadvantaged businesses. They receive enormous amounts of federal funding.

        Yes, they are smarter than blacks, but that does not discount the government component.

        map

        March 12, 2016 at 1:47 pm

      • https://www.fbi.gov/philadelphia/press-releases/2014/former-president-and-owner-of-schuylkill-products-sentenced-in-largest-disadvantaged-business-enterprise-fraud-in-nations-history

        Explain this:

        Marikina was owned by Romeo P. Cruz of West Haven, Connecticut, a naturalized American citizen born in the Philippines. Marikina was certified by PennDOT and SEPTA as a DBE. Although Marikina received the DBE contracts on paper, all the work was performed by SPI and CDS personnel, and SPI and CDS received all the profits. In exchange for letting SPI and CDS use its name, Marikina was paid a small fixed fee, set by SPI.

        The scheme was carried out for over 15 years because of the numerous fraudulent steps the co-conspirators took to conceal the scheme. SPI and CDS personnel routinely pretended to be Marikina employees by using Marikina business cards, e-mail addresses, stationery and signature stamps, as well as using magnetic placards and decals bearing the Marikina logo to cover up SPI and CDS logos on SPI and CDS vehicles.

        ———————–

        How does a man born in the Philippines qualify as a DBE?

        map

        March 12, 2016 at 2:06 pm

      • @Jesse

        Define Americans for us.

        Yakov

        March 12, 2016 at 7:26 pm

      • @map

        Why should Koreans qualify is hard to understand, but dont blacks get the same funding as Koreans?

        Yakov

        March 12, 2016 at 7:37 pm

      • Yakov,

        Yes, blacks get the same funding as Koreans.

        Also…irrelevant.

        Neither is a model minority.

        map

        March 12, 2016 at 9:15 pm

      • @Jesse
        ‘Americans owe them – or you, the great Medicaid using, tax dodging Russian parasite – nothing. They shouldn’t be there in the first place. ‘

        You are a riot. Did I claim that anybody owes me anything? Is this discussion about me? When Lion does a post about me, we’ll talk about it. In the meantime be logical: if Lion can sit on a nice nest egg and be eligible for Medicate, why shouldn’t a working man take advantage of the same program? A year ago you had to have less then $2,000 in assets to qualify, today a millionaire can have it if he has no income. Sounds normal to you? Also, as I’ve explained already the elementary self-evident truths – I have no influence over the cost of living.

        Reminds of a joke: ‘I can tell how I’ve made all my millions, except for the first one’.

        Keep it real.

        Yakov

        March 12, 2016 at 9:24 pm

    • “I’m with Lion here. I’ve seen plenty of dimwitted whites and Latinos who don’t end up poor. I think part of the problem is they don’t inherit any money from their parents, which really helps. They do also have a reckless and heedless attitude towards money.”

      I’m convinced whatever the intelligence endowment is, there is a toxic cultural aspect that poisons the minds of slave descended Black-Americans. Perhaps there is discrimination and unfairness, but all the atrocious self-anointed “leaders” of the Black community constantly telling them that they are oppressed victims has created a tragic passivity and paranoia that makes so many difficult do deal with. A few of the Black American colleagues I’ve had have been the most difficult prickly personalities I’ve worked with. Of course every personality is unique… but these had a paranoia, defensiveness, aggression finding offense in every possible instance. Perhaps these were like pitbulls who were long abused, mean through no fault of their own… Perhaps they suffered “horribly” the “iniquities” of being Black in America. But if so it just made them all the more asocial and dangerous to the community and work culture. Of course African immigrants don’t come of age in this toxic environment of learned racism, that everything is “white privilege” and “systemic racism.” These folks are more likely to be a pleasure to work with. The Black-Americans descended from slaves need to get the memo that they’ve been emancipated, move off the plantation, “emigrate” to America (in their hearts at last) and grasp the opportunities and communities that are just reaching out to them.

      Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

      March 11, 2016 at 5:47 pm

      • We all of us “discriminate” against people who, whatever their race, are difficult to deal with: we try to have little or nothing to do with them, and rightly so.

        silberstreak

        March 12, 2016 at 8:34 am

    • No. They are just too damn lazy to start their own businesses.

      B.T.D.T.

      March 11, 2016 at 8:04 pm

  21. All of your theories contribute. And yes, regression plays a role as well. But the biggest factor is the change in how smart you have to be to hold onto a middle class job.

    Rising to the middle class in 2016 requires more intelligence than it did in, say, 1976. It’s an information economy. You’re probably sitting behind a desk or plying a highly skilled blue collar trade. IQ min = 95. Once upon a time you could work on a factory line with an IQ of 85 and pull down middle class money. Globalization, automation, immigration… it all adds up to a higher threshold of intelligence for the middle class.

    A lot of black parents with IQ 90(ish) made it to the middle class a generation ago. Half of their kids are smarter than them, and half are lower. The lower kids are screwed. SO ARE SOME OF THE SMARTER ONES. Because the world changed.

    Jonah

    March 11, 2016 at 4:38 pm

    • People who work hard and turn their hearts to G-d will prosper in any word. You give your fellow man a chance to earn, don’t nickle and dime, and he does the same in return and this is how this thing works. Always did and always will. It’s really all in the Bible. Now people who don’t know this simple truth will walk in the dark. When things get messed up, like right now, you need a revolution and Trump is gonna fix many things. But this is the basis: in business everyone should gain, you shouldn’t try to take everything for yourself. This is what Talmud teaches. What does this have to do with the post? I dunno, but I think it’s relevant. Gotta go for now. Shabbat! Lion, go to shul.

      Yakov

      March 11, 2016 at 5:49 pm

      • “Lion, go to shul.”

        I can’t think of anything less pleasant than listening to an hour of chanting in a foreign language I don’t understand.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 11, 2016 at 6:10 pm

      • “But this is the basis: in business everyone should gain, you shouldn’t try to take everything for yourself.”

        Many people believe this but the most successful and powerful capitalists do not.

        chairman

        March 11, 2016 at 7:32 pm

      • Lion, they must’ve really butchered you in that Hebrew school. I’m trying to drill into your head that Hebrew IS your real language and you speak English by a pure historical accident. If you don’t believe me, just ask JS, Jessy or Jayman.

        You have a point about long prayers, I don’t identify with them either. So I take a good Hebrew book and study it while the chanting goes on while saying my thing in between. We should’ve gone back to sacrifices after the Six Day War and eliminated the unnecessary prayers. Sacrifices is our true worship.

        Yakov

        March 12, 2016 at 9:38 pm

    • Very insightful comment.

      President Barbicane

      March 11, 2016 at 8:22 pm

    • “… Half of their kids are smarter than them, and half are lower….”

      Regression to the mean means that less than half of their kids are smarter and more than half of their kids are dumber. Middle class blacks on average have had better than average luck and luck isn’t passed on.

      James B. Shearer

      March 12, 2016 at 4:18 am

  22. Lion, you have to explain what the middle class values are and how they should be taught to blacks in school, or your post makes no sense to me.

    Yakov

    March 11, 2016 at 5:32 pm

  23. Interesting post. I am also guilty of immediately thinking “regression to the mean.”

    (1) Many blacks who have middle-class jobs got their jobs through affirmative action and they are often government jobs where poor performance is tolerated. Thus many middle-class blacks don’t have the natural talents to be middle class, and they pass on their genes to their children.

    This does not make sense to me. Why should natural talent play a role, especially if regression to the mean is not in play? If the parents got their jobs through affirmative action, then what is to stop their children from doing the same? This seems to assume that affirmative action jobs are like a lottery where being Black isn’t enough — you also have to be lucky in order to get one.

    (2) Middle-class blacks, compared to whites of the same income-strata, are more likely to waste their money on bling than save it to invest in their own and their children’s future. This is partially a function of middle-class blacks, because of the point I made in the reason above, having, on average, lower IQ than middle-class whites, and there is a strong correlation between IQ and future-time-oriented behavior.

    This seems like promising area of study. How much do middle-class Black children normally inherit? If Blacks owe their incomes to over-inflated government wages, then children in this class would be less likely to inherit a family business. The other thing about government employment is that it prevents workers from blowing their salaries on nonsense. If you get nudged toward deferred compensation, then you can draw a hefty pension later in life (when you’re generally better at handling money).

    (3) Because of who their relatives are, the neighborhoods they live in, and black kids’ natural affinity for hanging out with other kids of the same race, black kids are disproportionately likely to hang out with kids who have ghetto values instead of middle-class values, and kids pick up their values from their peers.

    When I think of the Black children under discussion, I imagine they attend schools that are mostly white. While their self-selected group of friends may be Black (or mostly Black), and they will be more likely to pick up “ghetto values” (as compared to whites or Asians), it’s not as though they’re jumping into it with both feet; they’re tourists. I know (a couple) Black kids who have “normal” sounding names, love anime, Game of Thrones, and other white shit, but they can still revert to speech that sounds authentically black (like Obama). They’re clearly not “ghetto,” but, like a lot of millennials, they’re currently under-performing relative to their parents.

    I think your second point is influenced by your third. If someone grew up without any inheritance, then they will probably feel less inclined to pay it forward. Because I SHOULD inherit income-generating properties (we’ll see), I feel that I cannot just blow it on vacations, cars and other crapola; I’m merely a steward.

    Vince

    March 11, 2016 at 5:33 pm

  24. Regression to the mean is already implied in this question: “Why, after reaching the middle class, many black American families quickly lose that status as their children fall behind?” It says that their parents/grandparents where not middle class. So, their children would statistically be more likely to become poor.

    MyTwoCents

    March 11, 2016 at 7:05 pm

  25. BLACKSLIDING.

    hard9bf

    March 11, 2016 at 7:19 pm

  26. I nominate “blacksliding” as the term for how black children regress to their racial economic mean even after growing up and living in a middle-class home with parents modeling middle-class values. I scoured the webbernets and could only find it as a typo when the author meant backsliding.

    It’s not as great as “gaystream media,” where the media must celebrate the heterophobic sodomite deathstyle at least once every 10 minutes, but it’s pretty boss in its own way.

    LIKED

    hard9bf

    March 11, 2016 at 7:29 pm

  27. Poor Lion, how can you be so smart and insightful and still be so wrong?

    ruhkukah

    March 11, 2016 at 8:04 pm

  28. “For a black woman, not having a baby before she gets married…is a more important factor in attaining a middle-class income than having an exceptional IQ.”

    1. Black women don’t get married very often at all, and even if they do the divorce rates are extremely high
    2. And you think that black women plan pregnancy? And that they plan to wait til after marriage to start popping them out?
    3. Even those small few with 100K+ incomes are always single mothers. Always.

    I’ve worked in HR for big corporations down South for 12+ years. I don’t have exact numbers because I’m not gonna report and export data on something like that (for obvious reasons), but going through everyone’s salaries and HR info it’s painfully clear that the most highly qualified black females in the private sector are still single mothers. Overwhelmingly. They just stop at 1 or 2 kids by one man instead of 6 kids by 3 dudes.

    And black females out-earn black males on average. But even black females with 6-figure incomes are often in a situation where they are essentially living check-to-check and they don’t tend to build much wealth from their income because of the lack of an earning spouse, bad money management skills/tendencies, and the ever-present pull to help family and friends with monetary issues $$ – it’s an anchor around the neck of even the most high-income blacks that prevents them from saving.

    And what’s even more rare is a white-collar, educated black female who is successfully married to a white-collar black male. Like black scientists capable of galaxy-saving research, that situation is common on TV but extremely rare in real life.

    Camlost

    March 11, 2016 at 8:31 pm

  29. The worst thing for black folks is to be around too many other black folks.

    That’s why blacks do much better in the low-density South than they do in the Northeast, where they’re crammed into highly dense neighborhoods and it’s easy for their rudderless youth to go astray. And Southern blacks spend a LOT more time around whites than Northern ones, they do receive some exposure to middle class values that way.

    Camlost

    March 11, 2016 at 8:35 pm

    • Look at the difference between 1960s riots North vs South.

      Supposedly the south had MORE oppression yet noticeably less to almost no riots.

      Main riots in the south that I can remember are the south Florida black riots usually over some Cuban cop killing a black suspect.

      So even that is not part of a “southern” tradition.

      I wonder what the reasons are. Population density?

      Rifleman

      March 11, 2016 at 11:40 pm

      • You’re assuming blacks in the north and south are genetically the same (Im not sure if they are or not).

        ruhkukah

        March 12, 2016 at 9:16 am

      • Because they were rightfully afraid that southern Whites would have killed them.

        CamelCaseRob

        March 12, 2016 at 9:36 pm

      • @ruhkukah

        Blacks in the South have less white admixture than those in the north.

        RaceRealist

        March 14, 2016 at 7:26 pm

  30. “This is one of the most over-cited things on HBD forums.

    First of all, people don’t regress to the mean of their race, they regress to the mean of their great-grandparents. Because people tend to mate within their social strata, and that includes blacks mating with blacks, there isn’t the regression towards the racial mean that people think there is.

    Secondly, most middle-class blacks have IQs between 85 and 100.”

    Yes, as I noted, people regress towards the mean of their family, not the mean of their race. This can be proxied by grandparents or great-grandparents, indeed.

    However, the mean of all families is the mean of the race. When you have a subsample of a group, say middle class Blacks, and saying for the sake of argument they are roughly between z 0 and 1 (i.e., IQ 85-97), and assuming that they mate within the group, that subgroup will nonetheless regress towards the mean from the population from which they’re drawn. That’s because not all the individuals in this group will come from high-IQ families. When you look at the group collectively, you’re going to get the full range of family backgrounds.

    If they continued to mate endogamously, there would be no further regression. However, assortative mating is never perfect.

    You are right, it is less than perfectly assortative mating that drives regression. But this is more an issue for individual couples. For groups, you will get the full range, and hence the expected regression.

    I wrote my post precisely for the reason of clearing up misconceptions about regression. This post is not helping.

    JayMan

    March 11, 2016 at 9:38 pm

  31. The Jack and Jill society is an attempt to protect upper middle class black children from the underclass. Former members include the wives of mayors Dinkins and Andrew Young, and late Commerce Secretary Ron Brown. I’ll bet the Obama girls are members.

    jef

    March 11, 2016 at 10:49 pm

  32. Culture has to be a factor.

    Compton California was a middle class neighborhood. It wasn’t the projects, & has houses with yards on flat land. It’s located halfway between downtown LA and the port of LA (where jobs are), close to both and only a few blocks away from the beach. Two future presidents lived there for 6 months in 1947.

    And yet it became the center of America’s gangland only 40 years later.

    Rotten

    March 12, 2016 at 12:12 am

  33. I once rented a house to a young black couple whose combined income placed them squarely in the middle class, and in fact I sold the house to them a year later. They were really nice people (so I thought), paid their rent on time, and took good care of the place.

    I can’t tell you how shocked I was two years later when I heard he was in jail and that the house had gone into foreclosure–although I think he wasn’t involved in any violent crime. He was a cable installer and I suspect (but have no way to prove) that he was stealing service. You just never know.

    sestamibi

    March 12, 2016 at 12:20 am

  34. Once again everyone in HBD land missing the other most important human variable: Testosterone.

    I’d put money on the average middle class black being better athletically than his other racial counterparts, particularly asians. With higher T, a better social adaptation than IQ, a person will ‘select’ this trait for social survival than IQ, even in a IQ resplendent setting.

    Hence, the fascination with rappers and looking tough > acing the biology exam. Swap around for asians.

    QED

    The Philosopher

    March 12, 2016 at 2:14 am

    • Have you seen Rappers these days? Low T abounds. This isn’t the 80’s or 90’s anymore.

      uatu

      March 12, 2016 at 10:52 am

    • You’re wrong about rap today. Being tough or alpha is mocked as fake and insecure. Pharrell is a beta black male who cried on Oprah. Macklemore is rapping about gay rights and shopping at thrift shop. Beta rappers have replaced 2Pac and Eminem as this generations biggest names.

      betaiscoolnow

      March 12, 2016 at 9:10 pm

      • Ah, the good old days when the rappers were violent gangsters.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 12, 2016 at 9:10 pm

      • You’re out of your mind. Rap wouldn’t sell if it dropped the outlaw persona.

        First of all, black people don’t actually listen to Macklemore. Only SWPL’s consider him a rapper, he’s a gimmick. Pharrell is mainly a producer, he always has been even though he’s done a few rap verses here and there.

        Rappers are still the same as ever, they’re just harder to understand since the locus of Rap has moved out of New York and to the South. New York rappers have clear, booming voices (like Jay-Z or KRS-1), while southern rappers (like Lil Wayne or Rich Homie Quan) are very nasally, difficult for whites to understand due to their Southern black dialect, and use a ton of auto-tune. And rap has largely fused with R&B in the musical sense.

        All of the top selling rappers now still talk about misogyny, homophobia, violence, marijuana, criminal activity and materialism. Nothing has changed. The best selling rappers of the last few years are Drake, Kendrick Lamar, Future, Meek Mill, Rick Ross, Dre, Jeezy, Ludacris, etc. They’re not the type to cry on Oprah, check their lyrics.

        Camlost

        March 12, 2016 at 10:51 pm

      • These guys are pretty peaceful

        Yakov

        March 12, 2016 at 11:02 pm

      • @betaiscoolnow: Beta rappers have replaced 2Pac and Eminem as this generations biggest names.

        LotB: Ah, the good old days when the rappers were violent gangsters.

        Didn’t a bunch of gangster rappers get killed and otherwise die off prematurely? Beside, isn’t Dr. Dre and his generation of rappers over 50 now?

        E. Rekshun

        March 13, 2016 at 12:23 pm

  35. Affirmative Action is just another form of Welfare, and produces the same debilitating effect on whatever effort the recipient of it might otherwise make to achieve in life.

    Same results would produce from a Guaranteed Income.

    silberstreak

    March 12, 2016 at 8:17 am

  36. It’s very simple. Almost no blacks are capable of programming a thermostat schedule. They just prefer to turn it on and off or adjust it manually. I always offer to teach them but they either don’t want to learn or just give up. Now, the thermostats are usually very simple, but they feel that they can’t do it. I think that they could do it, if they make an effort, though. I’m gonna a experiment more with them, maybe I’ll be able to teach a few.

    If you cannot be taught this, I’m not talking about reading instructions here, you are very stupid.

    Yakov

    March 12, 2016 at 10:02 pm

    • Ah, I remember when I had a thermostat like that. I programmed it to blast the heat at my wake-up time. It was wonderful.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 12, 2016 at 10:45 pm

    • Yakov, I have few advanced and one terminal degree, but I still cannot program my thermostat. Ok, I can, but I really hate to do it. The problem with programmable thermostats is that you have to go through all time intervals when your wife asks to raise the temperature by one degree. This, in turn, leads to a different question: Can you teach your wife how to program thermostat?

      MyTwoCents

      March 14, 2016 at 3:03 pm

      • The solution is an iPhone/iPad app that’s easier to use than the two buttons and a one-line LCD display on a cheap thermostat.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 14, 2016 at 3:39 pm

  37. It’s interesting that you post this nearly two months after my mother’s passing, and my brothers and I are an interesting example of this. My younger brother and I both work full time, but our jobs pay sub-$40K wages which for singles in a place like New York is rather difficult, especially if you’re trying to stay in a white neighbourhood or even just a suburban black neighbourhood.

    Your first reason makes some sense, but maybe I’m biased from being in NYC, but the era of hiding out in a government office simply doesn’t exist in the same way that it used to in the past, and the need for a college degree for so many functions has chased away the low education types that used to dominate those fields. My mom was rather shocked once at how few tests are now given for civil service positions compared to the 1980s. That last generation that started work in the 1980s is retiring now, but their jobs don’t exist for their children in some cases due to technology, hiring freezes, and outsourcing to non-profits that pay much less. Even those who luck out are stuck with subpar wages to subsidize Tier 1 retirees in NYC, and their wages go to high housing costs in the city if they move out.

    The second reason is also rather sensible, especially since I think blacks don’t seem to have the same view of wealth that Jews, let alone whites have about wealth. It’s a rather prole view that money is there to be used to inflate somebody’s lifestyle, versus being hidden away for future generations to use. When I was younger, I was shocked when I discovered that rich white people would buy basic cars versus luxury models, as I had presumed that the whole reason for being rich is to have nice things. Otherwise, why bother to work hard in the first place?

    The third case is interesting, given that black neighbourhoods are never quite free of the lower class delinquents that seem to be non-existent in middle class white neighbourhoods*. Sometimes, it’s due to family coming over, but a lot of time, it’s because the bad black neighbourhood simply isn’t that isolated from its nicer counterpart. There’s a certain degree of cultural crossover, and even the parents that double down on instilling harsh punishments on their kids find their children rebel by involving themselves what are essentially bad children with bad habits. The other secret problem is that when you have hard working parents that sometimes work two jobs to keep their kids out of a “bad area”, the parents simply aren’t involved enough with their kids to keep them out of trouble. It’s a trend that I’ve seen happen with children of Caribbean immigrants, and it generally doesn’t pan out well in most cases.

    *I swear, white people are far more ruthless in casting off their poorer kin. Black people less so, but who wants to be the lonely black person without anybody else around? But then, even if you’re middle class, if you end up having to go back to the old neighbourhood to get your hair cut and go to church, can you really escape?

    David Alexander

    March 13, 2016 at 7:22 am

    • ” It’s a rather prole view that money is there to be used to inflate somebody’s lifestyle, versus being hidden away for future generations to use.”

      Excellent point.

      “I suspect also a secret problem is that the stuff that would have gotten black kids beaten up by cops with no records in the 1950s and 1960s ”

      White kids, too. I am old enough to remember (vaguely) the mid-60s, when the beat cop really was a beat copy, pun intended. They’d use those nightsticks and give the bad kids a nice crack in the head. In those days the real punks were Guidos and tough Irish, with a smattering of badass blacks. The zero tolerance policy was a necessary consequences of the horrific crime wave that traumatized NYC from 1965-1992. I can’t believe we put up with it for so long. NEVER AGAIN.

      gothamette

      March 13, 2016 at 1:09 pm

  38. I suspect also a secret problem is that the stuff that would have gotten black kids beaten up by cops with no records in the 1950s and 1960s in urban departments became arrests and convictions in the 90s and 00s which pretty much makes black men useless for hiring, and the widespread use of random drug testing by even $12/hr jobs* at some places weeds out young applicants partake in recreational drug use which seems to be a really weird trait with young black kids. Of course, one could argue that it’s easier to smoke pot than to acknowledge one’s bleak existence…

    *My employer is a medium sized firm where they recently switched to drug testing all employment candidates including those for our call centre. Of the 6 recent applicants, only one could make it through the drug testing and background check verification regime.

    David Alexander

    March 13, 2016 at 7:28 am

    • The closing of the steel mills and decline of the other “strong back” jobs was very damaging for a certain profile of rough-around-the-edges youth who’d get into terrible trouble early, but then settle down and fly straight soon after. Young black males tend to fit this profile much more often than others.

      Camlost

      March 13, 2016 at 2:03 pm

      • I thought the jobs in the steel mills were dominated by working-class ethnic Whites, virtually no blacks. But that just what I recall from watching Tom Cruise in “All the RIght Moves” back in the early ’80s.

        Today, for unemployable black males like the one you describe, the employer of last resort, even (especially) for ones with felony convictions is lawn care service. In my area, some well-worn White guy with a pick-up truck buys a clunky trailer, a (very) used riding mower, and a weed trimmer; and employs a couple of 40-50 year old black males to help with the labor. Three guys splitting $15 lawn cuts doesn’t go far, but I guess the hard work in the hot sun wears them out and mostly keeps them off the streets day and night.

        E. Rekshun

        March 13, 2016 at 2:51 pm

      • The closing of the steel mills and decline of the other “strong back” jobs was very damaging for a certain profile of rough-around-the-edges youth who’d get into terrible trouble early,

        I know that was a huge issue in Baltimore years ago. Baltimore made a massive transition away from it’s earlier port/steel mills/factories/blue collar/learn your trade at work jobs.

        Rifleman

        March 13, 2016 at 3:12 pm

  39. The third case is interesting, given that black neighbourhoods are never quite free of the lower class delinquents that seem to be non-existent in middle class white neighbourhoods*. Sometimes, it’s due to family coming over, but a lot of time, it’s because the bad black neighbourhood simply isn’t that isolated from its nicer counterpart.

    Blacks don’t tend to self-stratify by education or income level.

    When a white woman tells someone that she started dating a new guy, what’s the first thing she is asked by other whites? (“what does he do?”) I’ve never seen blacks behave that way, but they’re don’t tend to pair up monogamously into official relationships as much anyway.

    Camlost

    March 13, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    • Yes, very true.

      E. Rekshun

      March 13, 2016 at 2:39 pm


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