Lion of the Blogosphere

What Trump really thinks about abortion

Trump is not religious and has never hung around with any pro-life people until he started running for President. There is no way he’s a True Believer in the pro-life cause. He strategically determined that he has to be pro-life in order to win the Republican nomination.

As I’ve written before, Trump has fifties values. He probably thinks that, since abortion was illegal in the 1950s, it’s no big deal if we make it illegal again.

However, he also probably thinks it’s no big deal that it’s legal, so I expect him to pivot on this issue if he manages to secure the Republican nomination.

* * *

Hepp writes:

It’s worrying though that he didn’t know how to deal with this issue. Pro-lifers are never supposed to want to punish the woman.

It’s common sense that if something is illegal, and someone does it anyway, then there is some sort of punishment. I can’t fault The Donald for not being a career politician who knows what issues require you to throw away common sense.

Trump is going to apply this same common sense to illegal immigrants. You came here illegally, what did you expect would happen?

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

March 31, 2016 at 9:54 am

Posted in Politics

53 Responses

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  1. It’s worrying though that he didn’t know how to deal with this issue. Pro-lifers are never supposed to want to punish the woman.

    So he made himself look more extreme than Ted Cruz, while also getting the pro-life people mad at him. The worrying thing is that there’s no reason to believe he’ll stop making these kinds of mistakes during the general election.

    Hepp

    March 31, 2016 at 9:57 am

    • “Pro-lifers are never supposed to want to punish the woman.”

      Which is stupid, since they don’t get any credit for it. The pro-infanticide crowd thinks it punishes the woman if she has to have the baby, and can’t kill it whenever and however she wants at public expense.

      Tarl

      March 31, 2016 at 10:37 am

      • I would rather they kill it at public expense than give it welfare for 18+ years at public expense. Not to mention the jail costs.

        Jay Fink

        March 31, 2016 at 4:35 pm

      • In my world, we don’t have to do either.

        Tarl

        April 1, 2016 at 10:39 am

  2. It’s a tactical error to attack at the Democrat/liberal media stronghold: abortion and the “war on women” false meme. Yes he gains mild support from Christians but they aren’t coming over to Trump. They are going to stay with Cruz. All he did was give firepower to media to continue to attack him.

    7. You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended. You can ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold positions that cannot be attacked.

    -Art of War

    robert rhodes

    March 31, 2016 at 9:58 am

    • Yes, Trump’s replies to Chris Matthews’ questions on abortion amount to an unforced error.

      Anti-Trump leftist Nicholas Kristof points out in today’s NYT Op-Ed that “punish the woman” is a corollary of the “pro-life” stance that aborting a fetus is equivalent to murdering a child. So Trump came up with the logically correct answer. But it’s the wrong answer, if one cares about winning the general election. It’s also an irrelevant answer, in terms of how abortion policy would change in a Trump administration (other commenters have made that point). So Trump (further) alienated potential swing voters in the general election, especially women. For no gain.

      Trump was again relying on his ability to think on his feet and come up with quips on a public policy question that’s also a hot-button issue. By now, he should have learned not to do that. But he is impulsive, and intellectually lazy. It’s costing him votes that he can’t afford to lose.

      amac78

      March 31, 2016 at 11:58 am

  3. I agree. In many respects, he’s an absolutely brilliant politician. In other respects, he’s quite bad at this. It’s odd.

    JerseyGuy

    March 31, 2016 at 10:08 am

    • The political system hasn’t changed a whole lot since the early ’90s, with the large number of Clinton and Bush people still in places of power being partly a cause and partly a reflection of that. Because it’s a decaying institution, an amateur who hasn’t been taught where to walk is going to poke a lot of holes where the walls and floors have, unseen, rotted over time. But the house remains because some of the walls are still holding, and throwing a punch at one will just leave you with a busted hand.

      Richard

      March 31, 2016 at 10:30 am

    • it’s his 1st time running for office. why would anyone expect perfection? i priced this into my support for trump. he’ll say things that occasionally make me cringe BUT he’ll say a lot of other things that need to be said.

      dsgntd_plyr

      March 31, 2016 at 2:46 pm

  4. When did this pro-lifers are never supposed to punish the women thing come about? I don’t remember that being a thing back in the 80’s. Can’t blame Trump for not keeping up with the latest illogical talking points from these crazies. How does it make any sense that forcing a woman to keep her rape baby is ok but the suggestion she receive so much as a fine for aborting a child she has with her husband is beyond the pale?

    PerezHBD

    March 31, 2016 at 10:22 am

  5. Trump should just say he thinks abortion is a tragic decision but he ultimately want to keep it legal

    robert rhodes

    March 31, 2016 at 10:31 am

    • Then add that the best method of stopping abortion is by eliminating demand for it. Then he should propose OTC sales of birth control pills or other pre-conception methods that currently require a prescription. That position would be wildly popular with women, even single women.

      J1

      March 31, 2016 at 1:00 pm

      • @J1,
        The GOP tried to do that:

        “Senate Dems rebuke GOP’s over-the-counter birth control bill

        Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) on Tuesday unveiled a bill to keep in place the rule that insurance companies must cover contraception, even if certain methods, like birth control pills, become available without a prescription.

        The bill is a direct rebuke to Senate Republicans who are trying to champion the issue of over-the-counter birth control. That GOP bill has drawn fire from reproductive health groups like Planned Parenthood Action Fund, however, that warn the legislation would force women to again pay out of pocket for their birth control.”
        http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/244448-senate-dems-rebuke-gops-over-the-counter-birth-control-bill

        Birth control is actually cheap. Generics $15-$20/month, and Medicaid covers it for poor women.

        dsgntd_plyr

        March 31, 2016 at 2:51 pm

      • And given how cheap it is, it costs practically nothing for insurance companies to cover them.

        However, it’s a very good idea to make it over-the-counter so it’s easier for women with low future-time orientation to buy them. The government should really just subsidize them so they are free.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 31, 2016 at 3:10 pm

      • And Republicans should be hammering the Dems over the head with that one. First, as the Murray bill makes obvious, the fact that something is available OTC doesn’t magically eliminate the ability to make insurance pay for it, but it does dramatically reduce the hassle involved. Second, there are lots of women who, for whatever reason, prefer there not be any record of their birth control use. I’ve paid for medical treatment out of pocket, despite insurance coverage, because various people didn’t need to know about it; I doubt I’m the only one.

        J1

        March 31, 2016 at 4:26 pm

      • @lion,
        Insurance is for things that are expensive and/or hard to get and/or are needed in an emergency. Birth control doesn’t meet the criteria.

        Covering things that shouldn’t be covered is a major reason the US healthcare system is so expensive.

        That said, I support paying proles to use birth control.

        Dsgntd_plyr

        April 1, 2016 at 11:31 am

  6. What Trump should say:

    “Abortion is the biggest fake controversy in American politics. The Republicans pretend to want to ban it so they can get votes, and the Democrats pretend the Republican ‘threat’ to ban it is real so they can get votes. The reality is that abortion is a done deal. It’s not going to change, so let’s stop talking about it.”

    Tarl

    March 31, 2016 at 10:35 am

    • My dream come true. I’m so tired of the whole issue. At what point is it doing more harm than good for Republicans to be vocally anti-abortion? Republicans like to string along those single issue pro-life voters, but I’m not sure it’s a net positive for candidates. You’d think that pro-lifers would have woken up to being used by now too.

      steve@steve.com

      March 31, 2016 at 11:22 am

    • Bravo! That would have been a good answer…too late unfortunately.

      Mike Street Station

      March 31, 2016 at 1:34 pm

  7. If Trump gets the nom, the media is going to pummel him even more with abortion/wimmen questions, and he can expect all sorts of loaded gotcha questions. Hillary needs no nuance on the issue: all abortion, all the time, for any reason, and all government funded. Anything less than this is hate hate hate waronwomen blah blah.

    Trump saying perfectly sensible things like “it should be up to the states” gets him nowhere except maybe with a handful of Constitution nerds who still dream about states’ rights (pro tip: there is no such thing anymore).

    Meanwhile, this “lots of Americans killed by illegal drivers” would make a good Trump theme:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/30/dad-turns-grief-from-sons-death-into-quest-to-tabulate-toll-illegal-drivers.html

    peterike

    March 31, 2016 at 10:37 am

    • “Trump saying perfectly sensible things like ‘it should be up to the states'”

      It’s not sensible at all. If abortion is so horrible, why doesn’t the Federal government make it illegal? Doesn’t the federal government regulate every other aspect of medicine?

      Reality is that if pro-life people ever get control of all three branches of the federal government, they will make abortion illegal everywhere. That’s their goal. The “states rights” thing is just political rhetoric only a few legal scholars actually believe.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 31, 2016 at 11:01 am

      • Murder and homicide aren’t federal crimes, these are dealt with on the state level. Why is abortion of federal importance?

        At least with a federal approach the US could get some kind of solution that reflects the political climate of each state.

        One could be at the same time “anti-abortion” and “pro choice” to let states choose. Of course neither the operation rescue nuts nor the abortion enthusiasts would be satisfied with any compromise.

        What is truly bizarre is the notion that the woman demanding and paying for the abortion should give no punishment. If somebody were to hire a hitman and pay for another to be murdered, should only that hitman be punished?

        Something about our culture that makes and holds women should be the innocent and helpless victims has undermined any sense of their autonomy and responsibility. Perhaps they were right that women are more like children than adults capable of independent moral decisions.

        Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

        March 31, 2016 at 1:06 pm

      • The country is permanently split along several lines, abortion being one of them. Leaving the issue up to the states (Trump’s position) is not only the constitutionally correct position, it’s also the only way people who differ so wildly on fundamental issues can live in the same country. Letting each state set it’s own policy removes it as a federal issue. The reason we’ve become more divided as a country is because we’ve nationalized almost all controversies into a one size fits all for everyone.

        Mike Street Station

        March 31, 2016 at 1:40 pm

  8. Punishment is a very vague term. Nowadays, some people are “sentenced” to rehab and taking “sensitivity training”. The women could be required to take a course on reproductive health and how to use birth control. I can’t believe his own camp didn’t release a statement to clarify his remarks by saying that.

    destructure

    March 31, 2016 at 10:38 am

    • They did release a statement retracting everything he said with regards to punishment.

      PerezHBD

      March 31, 2016 at 11:18 am

      • I know. That was stupid and weak. They should have done exactly what I said.

        destructure

        March 31, 2016 at 11:48 am

      • It looks like Trump is losing his touch. He used to not apologize, not back down, or take any kind of nonsense from the politically correct SJW gotcha gang.

        He’s starting to look like just another politician…

        Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta

        March 31, 2016 at 1:09 pm

      • It looks like Trump is losing his touch. He used to not apologize, not back down, or take any kind of nonsense from the politically correct SJW gotcha gang.

        He’s starting to look like just another politician…

        Half the pro-life movement absolutely thinks you have to punish the mother. The other half thinks you absolutely cannot. The pro-life movement is split badly on this. He knows he’s not the man to lead on this particular aspect of this issue. Trump is right to remain somewhat ambiguous which he is when you combine is formal statement with his instinctual response during the interview.

        Plus he’s forced the pro-life movement to acknowledge they’re split on this and need to discuss it further. Not bad for Trump.

        Andrew E.

        March 31, 2016 at 1:47 pm

  9. Basically, Trump showed that he has no knowledge of abortion politics at all. He’s not going to do shit pro or against abortion.

    The general election is so far away, he’ll get a poll tested response to repeat when given the question in the future.

    The GOP barges in with the social issues every 4 years to distract from all the looting that’s going on, and then never does shit about the social issues. I’m beyond tired of that. Abortion has been a top issue in every election in my life and nothing ever happens.

    Rotten

    March 31, 2016 at 10:38 am

    • “Basically, Trump showed that he has no knowledge of abortion politics at all.”

      Very true. This is the weakness of a non-politician running. He hasn’t spent years and years fine tuning how to talk about a total non-issue, because in real life abortion is a total non-issue to any normal person (activists on either side being abnormal loons).

      “The general election is so far away, he’ll get a poll tested response to repeat when given the question in the future.”

      The problem is this makes it harder for him to get the nomination. Already, the cucked out Scandinavian tut-tut crowd are peeing in their Depends over this “attack” on women.

      “The GOP barges in with the social issues every 4 years to distract from all the looting that’s going on, and then never does shit about the social issues.”

      And THAT, my friend, sums up EVERYTHING about the gang of third-rate grifters that are the Republicans (the Democrats are first-rate grifters). It’s all a big Oz show, smoke and fire and behind the curtain is a puny little cuck. But there are still enough social issue TruCon losers who can’t grasp that these battles are long lost, and who still send money to GOPe and go pull the lever for patently phony con artists like Lyin’ Ted Cruz.

      peterike

      March 31, 2016 at 2:33 pm

  10. The question I, as a pro-choicer, give is: so how long should she do? Either the pro-lifer waffles or they give an answer which shows what utter asshats they are. There are certain arguments you can only win by not having, and it’s worrying that Trump doesn’t seem to understand that, or how to spot them.

    Jesse

    March 31, 2016 at 10:39 am

    • You’re not smart and that’s a stupid question.

      destructure

      March 31, 2016 at 12:10 pm

      • How long should a woman who, by your logic, commits murder do in prison? It’s a perfectly reasonable question.

        Jesse

        March 31, 2016 at 2:28 pm

    • Life.

      dsgntd_plyr

      March 31, 2016 at 2:51 pm

  11. Chris Matthew’s goal was to get Trump to say something stupid. He pulls the same schtick with every Republican he interviews. Trump had never said anything…in fact no one has, about punishing women for having an abortion. Matthews brought that up, and it was clear that it was something that Trump had never thought of before (because when has anyone been asked that question?) so he got caught flat footed

    Mike Street Station

    March 31, 2016 at 10:53 am

  12. No matter what politicians say now, if abortion is made illegal, it will be a crime for a woman to get an abortion. That is true in most countries where abortion is illegal. In some countries any woman who is found to have had a miscarriage, is investigated by the police to determine if it was an abortion.

    mikeca

    March 31, 2016 at 11:02 am

  13. Sheer genius!

    Conservative Pundit @DemsRRealRacist

    .@Shellieh98 Amen, sister! That’s what I say. It’s not the government’s place to interfere with private spiritual matters like homicide.

    Conservative Pundit @DemsRRealRacist

    I’m a pro-lifer. Of COURSE I think abortion is murder! It’s just a special kind of murder that no one should face punishment for committing.

    Tarl

    March 31, 2016 at 12:01 pm

  14. It’s common sense that if something is illegal, and someone does it anyway, then there is some sort of punishment. I can’t fault The Donald for not being a career politician who knows what issues require you to throw away common sense.

    Trump is going to apply this same common sense to illegal immigrants. You came here illegally, what did you expect would happen?

    I thought the exact same thing. Funny, this morning I flipped through the cable news channels for about 20 minutes, and no one talked about what Trump said. Maybe someone realized it’s retarded to make something illegal, but not punish people who break the law.

    Wrt the GOPe…WOW! They all came out against Trump, meaning they don’t think women should be punished for abortions. Which means they’re pro-choice. Even the head of the Family Research Council wouldn’t punish women that get abortions. Is the whole pro-life thing a scam?

    dsgntd_plyr

    March 31, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    • Polling and focus group data all show that putting women in jail for getting an illegal abortion causes wavering voters to rethink whether abortion should be made illegal. So they all have agreed that they will say women will not punished. They all know this is a lie. If Roe vs Wade were overturned, abortion would be instantly made illegal in many states and there would be criminal penalties for getting an abortion.

      The truth is there already are women in jail in American for getting illegal abortions. Jennifer Whalen went to jail for ordering a RU-486 pill for her daughter online. There are several other similar cases.

      mikeca

      March 31, 2016 at 7:56 pm

    • No, they’re true believers. They believe women can do no wrong. They believe any time a woman is tempted to do something bad, it’s only because a bad man is forcing or tricking her into it.

      Hermes

      March 31, 2016 at 9:34 pm

  15. I really fucking hate political Christianity. Stupid Christians are such fucking hypocrites.

    By the way, in Latin America where they take being pro life seriously, women do go to jail for abortions, which makes sense if it’s really murder.

    We must take away the right to vote in primaries from Stupid Christians! They have ruined America!

    Otis the Sweaty

    March 31, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    • “We must take away the right to vote in primaries from Stupid Christians!”

      How do you plan to do this? But, thanks for admitting indirectly that what you really want is a de facto atheist state that gives religious people second-class citizenship. You do understand, of course, that religious Jews will also be penalized under such a state, right?

      Maryk

      April 1, 2016 at 9:07 am

      • Well at the very least there needs to be some consequences for all the moronic Christians who fell hook, line and sinker for Cruz’s obviously phony Christian values pablum and supposed constitutional “bona fides”.

        Bad form Christians.

        Andrew E.

        April 1, 2016 at 7:30 pm

      • They have to live in the country they made, like the rest of us.

        SFG

        April 3, 2016 at 12:12 pm

  16. Trump seemed puzzled by Chis Mathews’ position on not punishing the woman since Chris’ god sends women to Hell for having an abortion.

    jef

    March 31, 2016 at 4:38 pm

  17. Lion you are good at explaining Trump’s mistakes but bad at excusing them.

    Gompers

    March 31, 2016 at 11:05 pm

    • I don’t think it matters that Trump hasn’t memorized the “correct” answers to abortion questions, when those answers are bogus anyway.

      • It had nothing to do with memorization. If he was trying to fake being pro-life, he failed. He has put no effort into trying to be a good faker.

        He is also apparently too cowardly to just own up to being pro-choice, something Giuliani did when he ran for president. Being pro-life is a vote killer in the general election and Trump has now gaffed his way into having a more extreme pro-life position than Cruz.

        Gompers

        April 1, 2016 at 9:45 am

  18. His answer proves that he’s a bad liar. He didn’t believe what he said, because he’s not against abortion and everyone knows that.

    He’s very good when he speaks from the heart. He’s a bad bullshit artist. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.

    gothamette

    April 1, 2016 at 9:21 am

    • I thought the most revealing line was when he talked about what “some conservative Republicans” believe, suggesting he still views himself as an interloper in some exotic, foreign movement whose quaint beliefs he does not quite understand.

      Gompers

      April 1, 2016 at 9:43 am

      • Well, I certainly think that hanging a woman who has an abortion is, um, quaint.

        Kevin Williamson of NatRev suggested this once, in passing, in a twitter exchange. I didn’t see it, not gonna look for it, read about it. Williamson is scum on the national question, as well. And he doesn’t know F-A about trade.

        So yeah, I guess he is an interloper. That part of Trump is the part I like: his ideas. The rest, not so much.

        gothamette

        April 1, 2016 at 12:16 pm

  19. A little OT but Paul Ryan is being challenged by a businessman, who is vocally against illegal immigration and the Trans-Pacific American Job-Killing Partnership. Of course Dave Brat did it before Trump but something tells me that w/out Trump, this guy would have done nothing. Expect to see a lot of little Trumps coming out of the woodwork.

    And that might be Trump’s biggest accomplishment, no matter what happens with his presidential campaign. He’s emboldened many other people to take a stand. I personally care more about Congress than I do about the presidency. We need patriots/nationalists to take over Congress.

    gothamette

    April 1, 2016 at 9:24 am

  20. Trump goofed–that’s what a liberal thinks a prolifer believes.

    Sorry to hear it–it’s just going to annoy women and hand the election to Hillary. Oh well.

    SFG

    April 3, 2016 at 12:13 pm


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