Lion of the Blogosphere

Surprised that the Swiss have common sense

The Swiss rejected by huge margins a referendum to pay every person a $2.500/mo guaranteed income. But NOT for the reason I would have expected.

Most aren’t worried that a universal basic income would disincentivize workers from finding jobs or turn Switzerland into a Marxist dystopia. The fear is that $2,500 a month would make the country too attractive to economic migrants.

The Swiss seem to have more common sense than the rest of Europe. The Swiss are correct that you can’t have a basic income plus open borders.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 5, 2016 at 1:04 pm

Posted in Immigration

79 Responses

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  1. But do they actually have open borders? I thought they had a referendum couple years ago rejecting the basic EU immigration agreement.

    West Coast IA

    June 5, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    • Wow, I had NO IDEA the Swiss were so racist, so Islamophobic.


      June 6, 2016 at 8:34 pm

  2. Capital!


    June 5, 2016 at 2:08 pm

  3. The Swiss have direct democracy.

    That’s the difference.


    June 5, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    • I thought the main argument against direct democracy was that it leads to people voting themselves other people’s money.


      June 6, 2016 at 1:12 am

      • Check opinion polls: most West Europeans think exactly like the Swiss on the EU, euro, 3rd world immigration, localism, taxes, curbing Islam, etc.

        We just don’t have the means. Direct democracy forces government to execute our will.


        June 6, 2016 at 11:55 am

      • The Swiss not only have direct democracy they have local democracy as well. It’s my understanding that each of the Switzerland’s cantons acts acts pretty much independently. So they have direct democracy acting at a local level. That gives people a tremendous amount of control over their government. Completely different from representative government acting at the federal level where people have almost no control. In America, the Swiss model would be known as “states’ rights”.


        June 6, 2016 at 11:16 pm

  4. But the Swiss don’t have open borders, and non European immigrantion is restricted. They have more permanent residents from Portugal than from all of Asia and Africa combined.

    A typical immigrant in Switzerland is a White European with a professional job…So yes they are smarter than the rest of the West. I wonder how they get away with this.

    • ” I wonder how they get away with this.” Easily. They have all the technocrats’ money in their banks!

      Sagi Is My Guru

      June 5, 2016 at 6:18 pm

    • What about the Anglo-Prole-Sphere? I can tell you it’s a great place to earn heaps of money, and enjoy a prole life of frivolous consumption. Individuals like Yakov, are the perfect candidates.

      Just reading about basic income being implemented, makes America look like a backwater, and worse, a toxic cesspool of multicultural filth, with no cleanup in sight.


      June 5, 2016 at 7:18 pm

  5. Well they could just curtail immigration and enact UBI.

    You can have open borders or universal basic income, but not both.


    June 5, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    • you can never have open borders and a state.


      June 6, 2016 at 12:00 pm

  6. The actual referendum that the Swiss voted requires the parliament to enact a guaranteed basic income that “shall enable the whole population to live in human dignity and participate in public life.” It did not mention any amount like $2500/mo.

    You can be forgiven for this since almost every new article on this referendum has the $2500/mo in it headline. Someone must have determined that $2500/mo was the income level required to live in human dignity and participate in public life in Switzerland.


    June 5, 2016 at 4:46 pm

    • I also thought it was 2500/month. Did the provision specify how taxes would change to fund the benefit? I wonder what percentage of the population feared the program threatened them with an individual net loss.

      One of my favorite polls around 2000 said that 19% of Americans reported having incomes in the top 1%. Another 20% said they’d be in the top 1% within their lifetime. Angry white retirees raged against Romney’s 47% despite being apart of it.

      When I read the OP I thought part of the “open border” fear was fueled by the expectation that many Swiss citizens would quit their jobs, then vote for immigration on account of keeping prices low enough to live off the UBI. I’d be surprised if non-Citizens would qualify for the program.

      In any case, I’m sure many just voted against it because it’s too radical. Status quo bias wins out more often than not.


      June 6, 2016 at 2:29 am

  7. Yeah, but was this common sense or did people realize this would be a refugee magnet for a brown tsunami? At this point Germany may be the only European country that isn’t broke, but for how long as Crazy Merkel keeps prying the door open with her legs? That bitch needs a man that’s her problem.

    Joshua Sinistar

    June 5, 2016 at 4:51 pm

  8. It’s not just that they have common sense, but that they value not having immigrants in their country more than they value having a couple of thousand dollars (or rather the equivalent of) in their pockets. Unlike most other people in the West, especially our governing class, they didn’t take the thirty pieces of silver. You have to admire the Swiss, don’t you?

    The Proley Ghost aka prolier than thou

    June 5, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    • I do admire the Swiss. I think Switzerland and Singapore are two of the most intelligently run countries. It’s amazing the amount of common sense that’s allowed in those countries.

      Mike Street Station

      June 5, 2016 at 6:40 pm

      • I think that Singapore is much more red-pilled.

        Lee Kuan-Yew publicly endorsed HBD. Could that really happen in Switzerland?


        June 6, 2016 at 2:32 am

      • Sure, and let’s tell East Asians to return to their homelands. East Asians are hypocrites, when it comes to HBD. They deride the lower races in White countries, and yet they flood them with their immigrants.


        June 6, 2016 at 10:45 am

    • The Swiss are already allowing too many immigrants, although they don’t have open borders.

      Have you checked out the Swiss Nat soccer team lately, another disaster.?

      . if you controlled your borders, what difference would it make if you had govt guaranteed income?

      The “Swiss” have black cops in Geneva. blacks pushing food carts in trains and as well as a ton of mosques going up.


      June 5, 2016 at 6:50 pm

    • Guess who has to take the bill for the guaranteed income…

      It´s hardly bribery when people has to fund it themselves. And the swiss are of course fully aware of all the shitty immigrants that would come…

      Anders Lindqvist

      June 5, 2016 at 7:20 pm

      • Why would the immigration come? They aren’t part of the EU. Just control their damn borders and enforce the immigration laws.


        June 6, 2016 at 12:20 am

    • Yes, and the JAPs too.


      June 5, 2016 at 7:31 pm

  9. I find the $2500/mo. number interesting. Most would need about double that after taxes for a middle class life in the USA suburbs. Some might eke out a decent bohemian existence on $2500 monthly if they didn’t have to save or worry about health care costs.


    June 5, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    • I’m pretty sure that house in the middle class suburb would end up costing just under $2500 a month more if this ever went through.


      June 6, 2016 at 1:15 am

    • Well the idea of a guaranteed minimum income is that it pays enough for a very basic existence but not so much that most people will take it and choose not to work.



      June 6, 2016 at 5:21 am

    • If your housing costs are covered in America, the rest is pretty much history. You don’t need a lot of money for food and other incidentals, given if you’re a healthy person.

      The quiet suburban life in America stinks, and it’s a throwback from the 1960s, with its sprawl and lack of nearby amenities and pedestrian friendly streets. The younger generations have no long term tolerance for any of this.

      What do Americans need to buy or use, that requires them large heaps of cash? Cellphone/Internet bills are pretty much non-necessities.

      If I was to get $2,500/month in free money for doing nothing, I would spend it all on antiquarian books.


      June 6, 2016 at 2:32 pm

      • A single person could easily live on 2500/ per month after taxes and that includes car expenses.


        June 6, 2016 at 11:06 pm

  10. 2500 per month is 30K per year. GDP per capita in Switzerland is 85K. Although a very rich country, Switzerland just can’t afford a program that takes up more than a quater of the GDP. The government is still going to have to pay for roads, schools, defense, health care, etc.


    June 5, 2016 at 6:48 pm

  11. I’m reading that my beloved new home of Quebec, is in the process of doling out basic income for its citizens, like that of Ontario.

    It’s too bad, that I’m not a citizen.

    I’m trying to find a telecommuting job with an American company, basically exploiting the higher pay of the United States, and enjoying the higher quality of life, while I’m in French Canada.

    Anyway, I do not lose at the moment, because I work with my American clients over email, and the presence of the Quebecois women, makes me very happy, a feeling that I do not get, with the legions of dumb, parochial and shallow women in New York City.


    June 5, 2016 at 7:12 pm

    • Did you actually move to Montreal like you said you were going to? Are you working remotely?


      June 6, 2016 at 9:11 am

      • I recently applied for a work permit to extend my stay, since my tourist visa will expire soon in August. I’ve been back and forth between the Big Apple and Montreal since July of last year. I can only reenter Canada after the next six months in the United States. I’m working remotely with my clients.


        June 6, 2016 at 11:11 am

      • Actually, it’s more like my tourist status. Americans do not need a visa to visit Canada.


        June 6, 2016 at 11:12 am

      • @JS,

        Why dont you apply for refugee status? With all the anguish you go through in America you might just get it. Tell them your story mate and keep us posted. My Tajik keeps applying for refugee stautus to stay in America, so even if you dont get it, you can work there while your request is being considered. I mean, there is no way you belong here, just no way.


        June 6, 2016 at 7:33 pm

  12. Xcommenter

    June 5, 2016 at 7:54 pm

    • ‘Panem et circenses’ has been tried before, why would anyone expect different results with a worse demografic? Rome was destroyed and so will happen to other civilizations that follow the path of laziness, immorality, open borders and such nonsense. UBI, if it happens, is the end of society as we know it. At 21 a person needs to think about making a living, not getting UBI and bumming around. This is just so simple. There is no money for it anyway, so it will never happen. This stupid idea makes me livid!


      June 6, 2016 at 7:12 am

      • Rome didn’t have the technology to produce stuff without any labor.

      • I’ve been saying that Yakov is a throwback from yesterday. His ideas are no longer relevant for functional progressive societies, United States being an exception.

        The fact that many proles are against basic income in America, tells you where they want to be.


        June 6, 2016 at 11:14 am

      • Technology also produced a lot of fake make work. Without the internet, companies like Goggle, Facebook and Seamless would have not exist.

        For those against basic income, why does it need to be doled out to non-citizens? A country can always say no.


        June 6, 2016 at 11:17 am

      • Where is the evidence that we live in a post scarcity society? Goods are still scarce. Food is still expensive (cheap by historical standards) to produce. Energy is expensive and so on and so forth. What are you going to do? Enslave the talented 10th to produce for the eloi?


        June 6, 2016 at 3:14 pm

      • Prole food is very cheap.

      • Rome had slaves.


        June 6, 2016 at 4:40 pm

      • Except for Lion, I don’t know anybody who’s unemployed. So much for being a throwback.


        June 6, 2016 at 4:54 pm

      • ‘Panem et circenses’ has been tried before, why would anyone expect different results with a worse demografic?

        By what historical standard did it fail? The Empire thrived for five centuries.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        June 6, 2016 at 5:30 pm

      • I don’t know about historical standards. It failed by the most common sense standard of all: the emipe conquered, population replaced and mingled with conquerors, language extinct, culture dead. The same thing is gonna happen here and it ain’t gonna last 5 centuries unless we institute UOL – Universal Obligatory Labor for all.


        June 6, 2016 at 7:05 pm

      • Yakov’s pro-work outlook is broadly pro-social and good for society. The problem is full employment is never again going to happen in the developed world, you will need to have large government programs to make sure everyone has a job and something to do.

        Working hours do need to decrease though. I can imagine not minding working ~60 hours a week as something like an HVAC technician but working 40 hours a week in an office job is insanity and unhealthy.


        June 6, 2016 at 7:12 pm

      • It failed by the most common sense standard of all: the emipe conquered, population replaced and mingled with conquerors,

        Italy was one of the better areas of Europe to wait out the Dark Ages and to a large extent revived Western civilization during the Renaissance.

        And no they were not ‘replaced’, that’s a white nationalist falsehood. Look at images of Roman frescoes like those from the ruins of Pompey and notice the appearance of Romans was not ‘Nordic’.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        June 6, 2016 at 10:02 pm

      • “Rome didn’t have the technology to produce stuff without any labor.”

        Neither do we. Give this robot thing a rest, Lion. The robot revolution is like cold fusion: it’s perpetually 20 years away. I’ll believe it when I see it. Until then, labor continues to be required to produce anything.


        June 6, 2016 at 10:24 pm

      • ‘And no they were not ‘replaced’, that’s a white nationalist falsehood.’

        Romans conquered the world, Italians are lousy soldiers. Not the same people.


        June 7, 2016 at 12:30 am

      • Romans conquered the world, Italians are lousy soldiers.

        As an HVAC expert I’m surprised by your lack of scientific knowledge.

        Soldiering depends on high organizational standards. As an organized unit, post-Roman Italy was divided between too many powers – Church, nobility, and foreign invaders – to be an effective military power after the collapse of the Western Empire. However, given a sufficient organizational base to work with, such as the US military, Italians are satisfactory soldiers.

        Napoleon was Italian; Genoan to be exact.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        June 7, 2016 at 9:00 pm

      • Who ever organized Chechens? Italians fought as a united militarized nation in Ethiopia, Spain and Russia. The results were poor. They are just not the same people as before. What scientific knowledge am I lacking in this area?


        June 9, 2016 at 5:52 pm

  13. Switzerland has problems despite being one of the richest countries in the world. Their main business model was banking (usually with black money from dubious sources) and using differences between the Frank and other currencies fro carry trades and similar gambits. So while they have some very good tech (pharma, watches etc.) to a large extent they were mooching from other countries because instead of paying taxes people put their money into swiss bank accounts. This business model will not work so much longer so well (because among other things the US were putting a lot of pressure on the Swiss banks).
    Be that as it may, as a small country with a very specific business model Switzerland cannot (neither can Singapore) serve as a model for large diverse and industrial countries like France, Germany or the US. Not everybody can be a tax haven. Nice work if you can get it, but not everyone can by hypothesis.

    As for basic income; there is welfare in some European countries but this is e.g. in Germany more like $400/month + housing. So if there will be some basic income at some stage in a Western country it will be around or slightly below the poverty line, around $1000 or so (incl. basic housing and health care/medicaid). It will not be better than what can already gotten as welfare or disability pension in most of those countries and basically serve as a form of simplifying and streamlining welfare.


    June 6, 2016 at 3:41 am

  14. This is why we need a guaranteed minimum income of 2500 US per month for everyone IN THE WORLD

    Get it done Bernie…


    June 6, 2016 at 6:42 am

  15. the swiss have open border because the membership in european economic zone require the acceptance of freedom of movement of people inside the zone as UE.

    it wouldnt have cost 30/85 % of gdp because less than 15 % earn less than that and they would spend every franc because Life expensive there. it would have cost less than 5% . And people who would have a minimum salary guaranteed would take more Risk (carrer change , entrepreneur etc ) .

    They were right Not to attract more foreigners …

    Bruno from paris

    June 6, 2016 at 6:47 am

    • My understanding of universal basic income is that EVERYONE receives a check from the government regardless of other sources of income. Thus, it actually will cost ~35% of GDP.


      June 6, 2016 at 12:41 pm

  16. The more immigrants and minorites in a country. The smaller size of a welfare state. Even canada and australia have smaller welfare states than western europe.

    That being said, the plutocrats are trying to demolish welfare by inviting you bucks into their daughters beds.

    Such a strange trade.

    The Philosopher

    June 6, 2016 at 8:45 am

  17. Why would anyone be surprised. Germanic logic without the Holocaust guilt.

    Bitter clinger

    June 6, 2016 at 11:09 am

    • The Swiss are not all Schweizers although that is the largest group.


      June 6, 2016 at 3:42 pm

  18. It’s no coincidence that Switzerland is the last nation to surrender to the Third World immigrant invasion of the Western world in Jean Raspail’s dystopian novel The Camp of the Saints.

    Oswald Spengler

    June 6, 2016 at 11:29 am

  19. Switzerland has always been the most soundly libertarian nation owing to their prudent fiscal management, innate social conservatism and non-intervensionist policies. Their war time neutrality has enabled them to escape the Western Messiah Complex and corresponding white guilt. As Hans Herman Hoppe has pointed out this kind of sanity can only occur in very small, parochial states. The bigger that nations become the greater the demand for central planning and media corruption. But it is not enough for freedom loving peoples to be libertarians. They must be conservatives if they want to thrive. Glorifying homosexuality, single parenting, drug use, third world immigration et al is a one way ticket to the slaughter house. The Swiss seem to innately understand this and for that I admire them.


    June 6, 2016 at 2:34 pm

  20. You’re right AsianDude, but this revenue replaces all other social revenues wich represent already 30% of the GDP, so the additional cost for the country would have been 5% as i stated, mutatis mutandis. But what Swiss had rightly understood, as noticed by Lion, is that all things wouldn’t have staid equal, because it would have been a great incentive for foreigners – that couldn’t been legally denied stay – to come.

    Bruno from Paris

    June 6, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    • It doesn’t really work even if you’re just doing it for your own population. Good for the sensible Swiss that they saw through that ruse. I’m sure the EU and USA rulers by now have realized it’s one of those ideas (like gay marriage) better not left to the voters.


      June 7, 2016 at 2:11 am

  21. However, a thing that nobody notice with low skilled migrands, is that it also help middle class standard of living. For example in Paris, if restaurant shoud have to find white people to do the job in the kitchen, owners would have to increase their salary by at least 50% and the prices for customers will double. The standard of livinv woud certainly go down because there are so many labor intensive sectors with low wages in our society.

    If the State would decide to compell people to do this job, cutting social help for example, it would also diminish the standard of living, but of the bottom half of the general population directly, and above, with securtiy, crime and riots increase.

    The immigration question is far more complicated than people think. We don’t have them only for the sake of super rich and for a replacement of population designed by an occult elit …. That’s why people didn’t vote for far right when they had a chance to. It’s self interest.

    Bruno from Paris

    June 6, 2016 at 4:30 pm

    • Immigration is very simple. Look at the Japs, they have it nailed down.


      June 6, 2016 at 8:01 pm

    • Restaurants are ruining France then. They always say in the US that we need people to work in fast food restaurants.

      it’s really capitalism that will spell the end of the US and Europe as we know it –cheap labor.


      June 6, 2016 at 11:01 pm

  22. But NOT for the reason I would have expected.

    Even if they allowed no immigration from anywhere why do the Swiss need a guaranteed income when their nominal per capita GDP is over $65,000?

    The Undiscovered Jew

    June 6, 2016 at 5:31 pm

  23. When artificial intelligence and robots make most workers unnecessary, minimum income may well be the only way out. Either that, or the the government will need to create make work jobs doing token tasks like playing videogames or excessive civil works projects like the way the Japanese line all of their rivers with concrete. The fact is, A.I. is making inroads into “knowledge economy” jobs and self-programming computers will render STEM even worse off.


    June 6, 2016 at 7:31 pm

  24. Now check this out. My Tajik’s family is arriving in the US. He’s got his wife married to an American citizen and they are coming with green cards. Today he is smiling from ear to ear and he goes: ‘I just got foodstamps for my kids! $720 a month! They aren’t even here yet and I got it! How can someone not love America!’ Yeah, right.

    What a stupid country! Some former resident if the Soviet Union who became a citizen goes to Russia to marry a 42 year old Tajik woman with 3 kids. This guy has money to make a few trips and spend a few weeks there, but he has no income to support his new ‘family’. Now, how stupid does a country have to be to allow this? They get Medicate also and who knows what else. Meanwhile he is applying for refugee status again after having been rejected, if he gets it, he has legal right to work and get a driver’s license. Insane. He’s been rejected once, he’s got no papers, what the hell is he doing here applying again? In two and a half years his wife gets ‘divorced’ and he marries her. I wouldn’t mind a white or a Jewish guy doing all this, but a Tajik Muslim drives me mad! Every day I feel like killing him. I hope Trump deports him and JS fast. All these two need is UBI.


    June 6, 2016 at 11:24 pm

    • Correction: if his application is accepted, he has legal right to work and get a driver’s license. Insane.


      June 7, 2016 at 12:34 am

    • You can report it as immigration fraud. I doubt anything will happen under the d-bag we have now. But Trump will boot him and rightly so.


      June 7, 2016 at 3:08 am

    • You can report it as immigration fraud. There is a phone number to report it on this brochure. But you’ll probably want to have everyone’s names first.


      June 7, 2016 at 3:13 am

      • I don’t snitch or betray people’s trust. I may kill him, but I will not report him.


        June 7, 2016 at 7:28 am

      • I understand why you have the mentality you do. Part of it is clannishness. But part of it is a legacy of your being from a communist country. When the state runs everything, people are forced to use black markets, bribes, cronyism, etc to get things including food, clothing, etc that should be sold openly. That forces honest people to be dishonest. And creates a culture where people don’t tell on others about anything even when they should.

        I don’t betray a trust regarding personal matters. And I wouldn’t snitch if someone was doing cash jobs and not reporting it. But when it comes to breaking a real law i.e. drug trafficking, burglary, grand theft, aggravated assault, sexual assault/molestation, murder, fraud, etc then I absolutely “snitch”. Though I try to do it quietly and anonymously. The only thing accomplished by not “snitching” is to create an environment where criminality flourishes.


        June 8, 2016 at 2:05 am

      • OK, I actually agree with all the categories you’ve mentioned, but illegal immigration isn’t one if them.


        June 9, 2016 at 5:54 pm

  25. It’s another idea designed to wrest some money from the middle class.

    First of all, basic income won’t replace all other social spending, because there will still be feckless (as well as devious) people who manage to spend it all and they chillun go hongry and serius jurnaliss show up with their cameras and so on. Second, there are also many entrenched bureaucracies which provide good jobs by feasting on the fat streams of cash, whose members are unwilling to seek new employment. They will make sure they still have a powerful role in this brave new world. Just as an appetizer, surely a fixed basic income is unfair to those who live in expensive urban ghettoes as compared to cheap fly over country; indeed it could be considered raciss to have a universal basic income. Finally, prices will ascend to take advantage of this windfall among the poor.


    June 7, 2016 at 2:25 am

  26. It’s my understanding the Swiss are getting a bit fed up even with cream of the crop well-behaved and/or rich fat cat immigrants. (But not yet enough to close the borders.)

    “Switzerland’s population has grown by over a million in 20 years, and is currently [in 2014] 8.2 million. Some 23% of its inhabitants are foreign nationals, most of them from EU states.”


    June 7, 2016 at 2:30 am

  27. I seriously do not understand how Marxism leads to laziness or idleness. It is about worker control over the means of production. I wonder if the Soviet Union in the 1930s was affected by idleness. No, it demanded its citizens to work in order to industrialize in order to build an armaments industry to repel a capitalist invasion.


    June 7, 2016 at 9:40 am

    • Marxism in general and Soviet communism in particular are against the human nature, which is motivated by profit. In the Soviet Union in the 30s workers controlled nothing. They were not much different then the serfes prior to emancipation. Even when workers controlled the means of production, like the anarchist cooperatives during Spanish Civil War, they lacked the business and managerial skills to run the operations sensibly. Profit, perfection of workmanship, contributing to a greater cause are the essential ingredients of a motivated work force. The profit motif was lacking, the workmanship was shoddy and ideology was not universally shared. It was a worker’s nightmare. You should have this clear by now. The only place where I saw this work well was an Israeli kibbutz Kfar Ezion.


      June 7, 2016 at 11:30 am

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