Lion of the Blogosphere

The Flight 93 Election

Just finished reading this great alt-right essay in the Claremont Review of Books. Of course, it’s only alt-right if the alt-right includes more than just a bunch of Jew-hating Stormfront types. I think that alt-right is a bigger umbrella than that. An umbrella which includes my blog.

The pseudonymous Publius Decius Mus previously wrote a pro-Trump essay for the alt-right Unz Report. He has now made it into the big time.

* * *

I don’t have anything to say about the contents of the essay because there’s nothing in there I haven’t already read in comments on my blog. It could very well have been something Steve Sailer wrote except that Sailer doesn’t write with the author’s verbal dexterity. It reminds me of Mencius Moldbug.

The big news is not in the contents, but that an alt-right screed is being taken seriously by the mainstream.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

September 9, 2016 at 8:21 am

Posted in Politics

261 Responses

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  1. It’s thought that the writers of the defunct “Journal of American Greatness”, of which Decius is one, are in fact scholars from the Claremont Institute.

    IHTG

    September 9, 2016 at 9:11 am

    • I subscribe to Claremont and I tend to agree. I miss JAG.

      vdorta

      September 9, 2016 at 3:29 pm

    • I never heard of the damn JoAG until it was offline. It was a great article, I was thinking of suggesting it.

      gothamette

      September 9, 2016 at 4:16 pm

  2. “but that an alt-right screed is being taken seriously by the mainstream”

    My only comment: the Claremont Review isn’t the mainstream.

    peterike

    September 9, 2016 at 9:55 am

    • Rush Limbaugh spent a large part of his show on Wednesday discussing this article.

      SQ

      September 9, 2016 at 11:56 am

    • Yeah it has nothing to do with Clarement colleges.

      Magnavox

      September 9, 2016 at 1:08 pm

    • It’s close to. It has mainstream cred.

      gothamette

      September 9, 2016 at 4:17 pm

  3. Couldn’t be Moldbug. It was succinct and to the point. Moldbug can’t clear his throat in under 10,000 words.

    Jimbo

    September 9, 2016 at 10:18 am

  4. The alt-right is a bigger umbrella, but it’s a bigger umbrella because it includes all kinds of anti-Semites, not just older anti-Semitic types from older sites like Stormfront, but also newer, younger anti-Semites who are on Twitter, social media, the “chan” sites, and all the other newer anti-Semitic sites. Overt and distasteful anti-Semitism seems to be what distinguishes the alt-right from the older “paleoconservative” types, who tried to be more polite and academic about it. Anti-Semitism seems to be the glue that holds the alt-right together.

    Tom

    September 9, 2016 at 10:38 am

    • There are different layers of anti-Jewish sentiment. Would make for an interesting post to sort it all out. Roughly:

      1) Hatred of Jews for deicide. This goes back a ways.
      2) Elders of Zion / global puppet master hatred. Goes back to Czarist Russia
      3) Hatred of Jews for racial reasons. Roots in 19th century, culminating in Nazi genocide in the 20th.
      4) Hatred of Jews as rootless cosmopolitans. Goes back to 19th century rise of nationalism.
      5) Hatred of Jews as rooted nationalists. Anti-Zionism. Goes back to maybe the ’60s in the West, though of course local Arabs opposed it pretty much from the beginning.

      Among the anti-Jewish alt-right, 2), 4) seem to apply the most (George Soros being the main name cited for #2). But there are also a few other layers:

      6) Fear of “entryism”, that verbally facile Jews will co-opt their movement.
      7) Resentment of post-WWII, post-Holocaust antiracism driven in part by Jews.
      8) Resentment of liberal Jews advocating globalism for the US but nationalism for Israel.

      I may be missing a few items here, but it’s interesting how even those alt-righters who dislike Jews have embraced Trump, who is surrounded by Jews in his family, business, and campaign.

      David Pinsen

      September 9, 2016 at 12:20 pm

      • Good grouping, but I think the few “liberal Jews advocating … nationalism for Israel” want a one-state solution with the Arabs on top.

        vdorta

        September 9, 2016 at 3:37 pm

      • You’ll see seemingly normal, not very vitriolic or mean-spirited alt-right people on Twitter for example who will repeat anti-Semitic alt-right memes even though they don’t personally seem anti-Semitic. The overall alt-right culture seems so saturated with making and distributing anti-Semitic memes that even non anti-Semitic people just seem to conform just to fit in.

        These guys are more old school conspiracy theorist types than alt-right, but they show the kind of rationalization that anti-Semites make with respect to Trump and Jews:

        Tom

        September 9, 2016 at 3:54 pm

      • Dave,

        You forced my hand. The next time I see a viciously anti-Semitic cartoon on Twitter being retweeted by an alt-righter, I’ll post it here. (If Lion allow it to pass moderation.)

        I don’t mind the anti-Semitism. What I hate is those honking huge schnozzes. I don’t look a thing like that, no one in my family does.

        gothamette

        September 9, 2016 at 4:22 pm

      • Some of their reasons are warranted:

        There’s quite a number of self hating Jews who are part of the alt-right. But White gentiles do not think of them as allies, simply because Jews are rootless cosmopolitans looking to adapt and not establish for the greater good, and rightly so, their reason is justified. Some would tell alt-right Jews to support Israel and move there, where they are fighting for Jewish nationalism.

        JS

        September 9, 2016 at 4:49 pm

      • “Good grouping, but I think the few “liberal Jews advocating … nationalism for Israel” want a one-state solution with the Arabs on top.”

        Well, sure. There are Jews who are anti-Zionists (e.g., the Green Party’s Jill Stein). And there are also Jews who are American nationalists (Trump advisor Stephen Miller, Mickey Kaus, David Frum, etc.).

        David Pinsen

        September 9, 2016 at 7:03 pm

      • I think that in modern times, there are really two types of anti-Jewishness: “anti-Jewishness as imperative”, and “anti-Jewishness as preference”.

        Anti-Jewishness as imperative is the belief that “the Jews are our misfortune”. Jews are primarily responsible for the West’s ills, and the West’s ills cannot be solved without somehow getting rid of them. The VNN slogan “No way out but through the Jews” encapsulates this view nicely.

        Anti-Jewishness as preference is the appraised opinion, after weighing the pros and cons, that Jews are a net negative influence on a troubled Western civilization. They’re not *the* problem, but they do aggravate the problem, and as soon as a proper nationalist leader takes over, their power will inevitably will be reduced in the course of solving that problem.

        For a Jew, anti-Jewishness as preference is of course the preferred type of anti-Jewishness. It has a shelf life – as soon as the problem is solved, the anti-Jewishness can cease. It’s based on a more subjective thought process – another person might examine the same set of pros and cons and come to a different conclusion, that the Jews are a net positive for the West.

        I think that one thing that for a long time distinguished the alt-right from oldschool white nationalism is that it seemed oriented around anti-Jewishness as preference rather than imperative. I didn’t get the sense from them that their raison d’etre was “get rid of the Jews”. They seemed to have a broader vision for society. They might have to push some Jews out of the way to achieve it, just like Putin had to knock out some Jewish oligarchs to revive Russian prestige, but that wasn’t the point of it all. However, that’s increasingly not the case anymore.

        You know how some of them call each other “gentiles” or “goyim” these days, rather than “whites”? It makes sense – as I’ve said before, modern white nationalists have basically lost interest in racial conflict with blacks, and so the entire movement has reoriented itself around the gentile-Jew divide rather than the white-nonwhite wide. I guess you could say that the evolution from boorish white nationalism to sophisticated alt-right has resulted in anti-Jewishness becoming both more prominent and (albeit diminishingly) more nuanced.

        IHTG

        September 9, 2016 at 7:11 pm

      • JS,

        “Some of their reasons are warranted:

        There’s quite a number of self hating Jews who are part of the alt-right. But White gentiles do not think of them as allies, simply because Jews are rootless cosmopolitans looking to adapt and not establish for the greater good, and rightly so, their reason is justified. Some would tell alt-right Jews to support Israel and move there, where they are fighting for Jewish nationalism.”

        “Self hating Jews” and “White gentiles” are overly-broad generalizations. I lot of Jews who aren’t self-hating share a lot of views with those in the alt-right, and not all White gentiles reject them out of hand (e.g., Jared Taylor doesn’t).

        Going back to my original comment, I suspect #7 is the biggest driver of anti-Semitic memes on the alt-right, combined with a desire to be transgressive. That would explain the enthusiasm for World Peace, which is angry, mildly transgressive, but generally not too funny.

        Edit: I found the teaser clip at that link funny, because I’m familiar with what it’s mocking. So maybe the rest of the show is funny if you get the references.

        David Pinsen

        September 9, 2016 at 7:16 pm

      • “1) Hatred of Jews for deicide. This goes back a ways.
        2) Elders of Zion / global puppet master hatred. Goes back to Czarist Russia…”

        I would also add that there’s antisemitism based on resentment against Jews in finance. I think that this is the root of your category 2).

        Blood libel tales, such as Chaucer’s “The Prioress’s Tale” fall into category 1). In contrast, Marlowe’s “The Jew of Malta” might make references to the deicide charge, but it’s more based on resentment of Jews being in finance. People generally resent the people they’re in debt to.

        On another note, I think that social media often elicits the worst out of people. SJWs largely came about from progressives using social media and becoming more and more extreme. Similarly, ISIS has had a lot of success on social media, and they have espoused the most extreme version of Islam. While I’m sympathetic to the alt-right to an extent, a lot of the antisemitism we see there seems to be induced by the intense, histrionic atmosphere of social media. In 2007, antisemitism and Putin worship wasn’t especially common in the HBDsphere beyond Stormfront. Now we’re seeing both more and more.

        Sid

        September 9, 2016 at 7:30 pm

      • The guy on the left has a great head of silver hair.

        W/respect to Jews and anti-Semitism on the alt-right, Richard Spencer just had a presser in which he said that Jews would not be welcome in his white ethno-state.

        I’m not packing my bags for Israel. He’s not gonna have a white ethno-state. Talk about grandiosity. Yawn.

        gothamette

        September 9, 2016 at 8:40 pm

      • Gothamette,

        “W/respect to Jews and anti-Semitism on the alt-right, Richard Spencer just had a presser in which he said that Jews would not be welcome in his white ethno-state.”

        On Sailer’s site, Steve analogized the alt-right to alt-rock and someone said Richard Spencer was the Nickelback of the alt-right.

        Spencer talking about Jews and a white ethno-state now is stupid. If Trump wins, the trends he doesn’t like will stop, and he can find a nearly all-white part of America to live in. If he wants Trump to win, the best thing he can do is lay low with his fash hairdo.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 3:02 am

      • The Jews get the most heat because they have the highest IQs and ergo, climb to the top quickest. They stick out like a sore thumb.

        And thats why we have political correctness. Historically sticking out at the top of the wealth distribution was an invitation to hatred. The chinese faced a similar fate in Indonesia, or the Indians/Whites in Africa.

        Its not just whites that are anti-semitic. So all these idiosyncratic groupings you posit are baubles, rather than anything indicative of the true nature of anti-Semitism.

        In fact, whites are historically the least anti-semitic race in contrast to Slavs, Arabs, Turkic and Latin Semites of Southern Europe.

        The paradox of niceness/weakness though is that it invites strength.

        Hence, the popularised myth that Whites are the most anti-semitic even though they’ve allowed a Jewish Prime Minister in the Victorian height of the British empire, created an Israeli state by seizing land from Arabs (they hate us cos of uh FWEEDOM, HUH HUH) and of course, allowed Jews to intermingle and settle in Western Europe for centuries, like all the other tribes wouldn’t.

        On a given bell curve, some of the top level jews, who are probably at least a SD higher than the top level whites, will be psychopaths and/or aggressively push for their genetic interest. They are the only race that has verbal abilities at these levels.

        While many jews, like the author do not have these psychopathic or genius level verbal dispositions, and indeed many Jews may have a point of view that crushing the White Man is extremist (for it is the man, not the white woman), or do not subscribe to Zionism, or may even be against political correctness and be “racist” against other minorities themselves, the higher echelon of Jews, at least going back to Lord Rothschild, Schiff, Loeb and so on have historically espoused many of these views.

        There are many Jews at the top level however that opposed them. For instance, read Henry Goldman (Goldman Sachs) biography and you will see that even the elite levels are not fully homogenous in intent. Or George Soros opposition to the numerous Middle Eastern Wars. Or numerous other high level jews that have been blackmailed, threatened and bribed like they did to the WASP aristocracy to fall in line.

        The only people that can stop high level Jewish verbal psychopaths and genetic nationalist Zionists, are Jews.

        Eventually the alt-right will recognise that in the fit of their cognitive dissonance. Its no great coincidence that Ron Unz who provides a platform to Sailer and Frost, and probably the Flight 93 author are Jewish. Nor the proprietor of this blog, nor the major backers (and family) of Trump, nor his speechwriter, nor the great liberators of the working class (from extraction) – Marx, Lenin etc.

        The essence of anti-semitism is neither a reaction to wealth accumulation nor an irrational hatred per se (the East Asians or South Asians, and Latinos don’t get this heat)…the essence is in the particular genetic capabilities that evolution has selected for in the Jews. In the same way the algorithm selected for testosterone in blacks (which is arguably a much larger chasm for other races to live with peacefully).

        I say this as a non-white, non Jewish man…an objective third party.

        Have I cracked it?

        The Philosopher

        September 10, 2016 at 7:16 am

      • Jews have absolutely NO organization like you imagine they do. Elite Jews are the opposite of ethnocentric, but they have bought into SJW liberalism (which elite white gentiles have also bought into).

        High verbal IQ doesn’t create real value, so high-verbal-IQ people only have money because we live in a value-transference economy.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 11:57 am

      • Utter Jews systematically favor other Jews? Other complete bullshit, not even worth refuting.

        The worst part of the outright, is that it is made up of pathetic self-pitying delusional fantasists. The biggest fantasy is the alt right view of white people as altruistic little babes in the woods who never hurt a fly and whose every action has been done on behalf of other people. They particularly like to vomit on about all the favors they did to black people by enslaving them. The alt right maniacs who say those are complete and utter human s***.

        I seriously considered voting for Hillary because I hate the alt right so much. But for reasons outlined in the flight 93 article, I can’t. I will vote for Trump, and I hope that when Trump is elected, he dumps these people into the ditch where they belong. FOAD.

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 11:13 am

      • 4) seem to apply the most (George Soros being the main name cited for #2).

        Personally I thought the Soros leaks were underwhelming. It was mostly his staff telling him to fund research papers (money which would go, naturally, into the hands of the staffers) intended for liberal politicians and activists who already agreed with Soros.

        Sort of an example of non-profit value transference.

        I may be missing a few items here, but it’s interesting how even those alt-righters who dislike Jews have embraced Trump, who is surrounded by Jews in his family, business, and campaign.

        All that proves is that the altright is too retarded to become a serious movement if their ideal leader has a deep, familial, “genetic interest” in preserving the genetic interests of the their archenemies.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 10, 2016 at 11:19 am

      • “Spencer talking about Jews and a white ethno-state now is stupid. If Trump wins, the trends he doesn’t like will stop, and he can find a nearly all-white part of America to live in. If he wants Trump to win, the best thing he can do is lay low with his fash hairdo.”

        What is your point, Dave? Now that Spencer is flying high and gives press conferences and is interviewed in the major media, you pronounce on a blog that he’s unimportant? Sorry, no.

        Spencer’s a major figure in the alt-right. He is capable of keen insights, but he is fundamentally crazy. He really believes that he can found a “white ethno-state” – and two supposedly more responsible figures of the movement appear with him.

        Unimportant? No. Spencer is the heart and soul of the alt-right. He stated his beliefs honestly. They are detestable and unworkable. Where does that leave you?

        IMO, Trump is just using the alt right to gain power. He’s using the alt right to destroy taboos and to introduce nationalist ideas to the American public. Sadly, a guy with Romney’s gentlemanly demeanor couldn’t do that. Decius’s point about Trump’s woeful demeanor in the article was right – it takes a guy like Trump to give voice to these ideas. I would love a calm statesman, but that’s not how we roll. I think, or rather hope, that at a certain point before the election he will denounce the alt right and shove them into the ditch where they belong. All’s fair in politics.

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 2:28 pm

      • The nebulous, yet significant, alt-right hates Jews more than any right wing entity, with the exception of the White Supremacist groups. Quite a number of Jews support the alt-right, so by default they are self-haters, because of this reason.

        Don’t get me started with Hasidic Jews voting Republican. They aren’t genuinely concerned about American becoming a 3rd world multicult stinkhole. They just want self preservation with welfare subsidies, without the pesky NAMs encroaching into their neighborhoods. They could care less of the greater good in White America.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 3:12 pm

      • Self-hating Jews mean Jews who don’t support Israel and side with SJWs and the Palestinians.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 6:12 pm

      • Jews don’t belong in the right wing camp, because most right wing – White gentiles hate them and don’t want them around. Therefore, any Jew who supports the right-0-sphere, is wishing their own demise. When did the Democratic party hate Jews? It’s the party where Jews belong. Israel is just another issue.

        Some in the alt-right, suggest that right leaning Jews should move to Israel and defend Jewish nationalism as a form of solidarity.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 8:14 pm

      • Lion

        Many high level jews are the most tribal protagonists in the world. Its true, not all as I’ve already pointed out clearly with specific examples, but a very powerful faction going back to at least the Balfour Declaration.

        Likkud Party dominated Israel (although I stress, there are other parties with different views) with its blood citizenship, aggressive settlement expansions, complete border wall, discrimination against Ethiopian Jews, fertility incentive schemes and its continual US invasions of other Middle Eastern states is pretty tribal. On a scale of 1 to Hitler, probably Mussolini. You might not publish this comment due to the H word alone, but you must be intellectually honest about neocon Israel as it currently is, and if you research Zionism (the intellectual predecessor to neoconservatism), as it was intended.

        They don’t swallow their own kool aide. If the average commenter here can figure out the stupidity of the Blank Slate, then the inventors of the concept in the late 40s can.

        They also dispose of other high level Jews that don’t fit their tribal agenda….Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin comes to mind.

        They’ve further invented the term “self hating Jew” to marginalise jews that aren’t neocons/Zionists like themselves in Israel or the wider jewish community e.g. Chomsky.

        Talk of jews aside, if you lack a theory of mind (associated with verbal cognition), its actually very hard for most people to even understand logically, how psychopaths or large amygdala people think. There is no assumption of behaviour from fear, predation or competitive spirit. Many people still don’t understand why career criminals exist: “Bad parents”. “Poverty”.

        They can’t feel the “itch” in the jocks mind to punish weakness and loserdom. How “annoying” it is to look at future beta engineer #342 wearing shitty clothes.

        Strangely, autists and the average neurotypical office worker don’t even have a theory of mind about each other! If you asked them to list their coworkers greatest fears?!…haha.

        People had a hard time believing schizo types that a massive supercomputer was monitoring everyone’s communications until Snowden, or the US media was completely controlled by a small elite until Trump. Or that the CIA would topple governments secretly, develop a mind control programme…or kill the president.

        There was never any logical empirical hard evidence needed in a sense because once you understand at a psychological level (not a logical one per se) why people do things you can extrapolate from first principle.

        Unfortunately, I now realise it’s impossible anyone A leaning on the spectrum to even imagine what someone with very top level verbal cognition can achieve – pussy, power and free money. Almost any woman. Illusion creation. How make belief money is.

        The intrigue in the Palace of Rome is lost on the WORK HARD and PLAY FAIR people, and even neurotypicals.

        We assume dastardly behaviour, partly because it is what we would do if we we’re in charge. And I think they do that too, which is why they do it to stop pretenders to their parade. Funny. Tragic even. Nobody suffered more in Stalin’s Soviet Union more than Stalin. I can assure you he lived in daily paranoid agony. I would wager at least 10 of his personal chefs/cooks were executed for fear of poisoning.

        I would also wager he didn’t believe a word of Communism (or Capitalism, or any other ideology) just like the Neocons don’t believe in the Blank Slate (or any other ideology outside of the concept we call the Struggle of the Will).

        I daresay having a theory of mind of a psychopath or tribal person is a very advanced level, but I can humbly relate, it also means oversensitivity to everything else lower in the food chain. People say I have dead eyes too.

        Autists may relate to empirical work in ecology studies and economic game theory revolving around the stationary bandit problem for a more digestible “logical” means to understand predation and Extraction or why their heads are shoved into lockers…Although its is no laughing matter either.

        The Philosopher

        September 10, 2016 at 5:53 pm

      • Israelis have the SAME RIGHT to protect their nation as every other nation on earth, and to suggest that there’s a special rule for Israel, they have to give half their nation to their enemies, is definitely antisemitic.

        The alt-right, of all people ought to sympathize with Israel’s desire to defend it’s core identity. That’s what they want white Americans to do.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 6:17 pm

      • On Sailer’s site, Steve analogized the alt-right to alt-rock

        Sailer means the altright will be over and forgotten in less than a decade?

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 10, 2016 at 5:59 pm

      • “What is your point, Dave? Now that Spencer is flying high and gives press conferences and is interviewed in the major media, you pronounce on a blog that he’s unimportant? Sorry, no.”

        Where did I say he was unimportant? I said what he was doing now was unhelpful to Trump, and to his cause.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 9:21 pm

      • Lion,

        “Jews have absolutely NO organization like you imagine they do.”

        Jews dominate the mainstream media, even if it’s not officially a Jewish organization. And a lot of them have contempt for the typical Trump voter. See, for example, Jamie Kirchick.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 9:28 pm

      • A lot of elites are Jews because Jews have higher IQ, but that doesn’t mean that Jews “dominate” anything. Most of those so-called elite Jews are barely Jewish and wouldn’t be considered Jewish by the orthodox prole Jews living in Brooklyn who vote Republican.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 10:48 pm

      • David Pinsen: Spencer talking about Jews and a white ethno-state now is stupid. If Trump wins, the trends he doesn’t like will stop

        Even without any more immigration the hispanic and black share of the population is going to increase, very substantially for the former.

        Magnavox

        September 11, 2016 at 1:01 am

      • How did you all make a thread about this essay about the Jewz?

        karlub

        September 15, 2016 at 9:37 am

      • I didn’t do a good enough job of deleting the antisemitic comments. Next time I will be more diligent.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 15, 2016 at 12:38 pm

    • The lower-class Men of Middle Earth feel that they become more interesting when they denounce Dwarves — more interesting than the usual boring lower-class Mannish denouncers of Orcs. Upper-class Men such as Eomer, and most Elves, are merely wary of Dwarves, and perhaps find them slightly disgusting. Wizards, such as Lion, who are in fact half-Dwarfish (note that both Dwarves and Wizards have beards, which they are unable to cut because nerves run through them), think about how the Orcs might be managed in a fairly compassionate manner. There are evil Elves and Wizards who hate Gondor and strive to bring about its destruction. Not a single Dwarf attends their secret meetings.

      Garr

      September 9, 2016 at 1:01 pm

      • Actually, Tolkien was really not fond of the Nazis. He was a big fan of Nordic folklore and was angry it had gotten stained with the Nazi brush.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 2:45 pm

      • Nice comment. Now try a HBD angle on the middle earth races and assign accordingly to your observations. For bonus points, ask yourself whether Tolkien had a HBD angle.

        The Philosopher

        September 10, 2016 at 6:07 pm

      • I know, SFG: upper-class Men such as Eomer are not Nazis. Philosopher, assume that everyone who comments here has “tried an HBD angle” on absolutely everything. It’s freaking totally obvious that Middle Earth is biodiverse.

        Garr

        September 10, 2016 at 6:53 pm

      • Yes its intriguing.

        My hunch reading Tolkiens other works is that he was not as HBD as some may think. His scholarly background was mythology and medieval/pagan literature. I genuinely think he simply believed it to be a parable of the Nazis.

        What he may have missed was that the myths themselves may have had a HBD element. In other words, HBD was a fairly accepted way of seeing the world in pre literacy times. Just going to show how “knowledge” doesn’t necessarily require education.

        The Philosopher

        September 11, 2016 at 3:55 am

    • The Paleoconservativse were purged from the National review for their supposed antisemtiism.

      Magnavox

      September 9, 2016 at 1:09 pm

      • Here’s a list of some of the paleos purged from NR and the “legitimate right”: Pat Buchanan, Steve Sailer, Sam Francis, Paul Gottfried, Joe Sobran, Lawrence Auster, Murray Rothbard, and John Derbyshire.

        Lewis Medlock

        September 9, 2016 at 2:50 pm

      • Yeah, but the National Review isn’t powerful anymore. They had a whole issue devoted to taking down Trump, and he still got the nomination.

        SFG

        September 9, 2016 at 8:56 pm

      • The Paleoconservativse were purged from the National review for their supposed antisemtiism.

        For God’s sake they were fired from NR twenty to thirty years ago. And no, Trump has nothing to do with paleoconservatism (which is why he’s winning). He was a Democrat until recently, called Buchanan a Nazi a few years ago, and is very unlikely to know what paleoconservative ideology is given that Trump barely can remember his own policy papers.

        In that time paleocons failed completely to create a viable nationalist movement or restrict immigration.

        Farage was also persona non grata in elite rightist British media after he opposed the treaty which created the EU, Maastricht, in the 1990s but he didn’t win the EU referendum in 2016 by bitching on blogs about not being given red carpet treatment by John Major.

        About the most you can say for their accomplishments is Peter Brimelow has made a tidy $300K annual profit grifting off of his dumb, prole audience while underpaying his writers.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 10, 2016 at 11:09 am

      • TUJ,

        “And no, Trump has nothing to do with paleoconservatism (which is why he’s winning).”

        Nonsense. Trump is basically running on Buchanan’s platform from 1996. And Buchanan supports him today.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 9:24 pm

      • Nonsense. Trump is basically running on Buchanan’s platform from 1996.

        Only on trade and immigration. And he’s still not as far right on immigration as Buchanan was.

        On foreign policy Trump is a realist while Buchanan is an isolationist, an isolationist who often defends America’s enemies. After 911 Buchanan blamed part of the reason for the attack on our support for Israel: never mind that the Islamic world is holding on to many stolen Holy Sites, such as Constantinople and the Hagia Sophia, which they are not relinquishing unless a crusade forces them to, or that our troops were deployed in the Middle East to defend the Saudis from Iraq while we had no bases in Israel. He was also practically rooting for Saddam Hussein to defeat America in the 1991 Gulf War.

        Maybe you can say Trump is Buchananism without the antisemitism. But I don’t believe Buchanan would be Buchanan if he wasn’t an antisemite – antisemitism is so central to his mentality and the mentality of all other paleocons that they wouldn’t know what to think politically without it.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 11, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    • I don’t agree. You can accept the science of race without being an anti-semite. This would pretty much force someone out of the left or the mainstream right.

      Alex2

      September 9, 2016 at 1:22 pm

    • I misread your comment. Never mind.

      Magnavox

      September 9, 2016 at 1:25 pm

    • The alt-right is being overrun by Stormfront types, though. I’ve already be kicked out of a few communities just for not being white, and critical of western values. The same ones that turned the west degenerate in the first place. Some of these people are just very thin-skinned and don’t take any kind of criticism well.

      Jason Liu

      September 10, 2016 at 12:20 am

      • I think you (we? I’m not very active) need a new term. Alt-lite or something. Alt-right belongs to the WN wing now. If only because of Hillary’s speech.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 7:34 pm

      • How about we keep the name alt-right, but call the stormfront faction the alt-white.

        OldTimer

        September 11, 2016 at 2:12 pm

      • They aren’t Stormfront types. Stormfronters are the intellectual heirs of Nazis and are extremely pro Asian and also pro Islam.

        This new breed is something totally different. They hate everybody.

        Otis the Sweaty

        September 11, 2016 at 3:50 pm

    • The alt-right, of all people ought to sympathize with Israel’s desire to defend it’s core identity. That’s what they want white Americans to do.

      Vox Day says exactly that – “Israel has the right to exist and defend its borders.”

      Tarl

      September 10, 2016 at 10:20 pm

    • “Where did I say he was unimportant? I said what he was doing now was unhelpful to Trump, and to his cause.”

      That was my word, true. I interpreted your sneering comment that way. But fine, I’m happy to admit I misinterpreted you. True that Spencer admitting he’s a rank out and out Jew-hater doesn’t help Trump. Is that the only criticism you can muster? Not that what Spencer said was insane, and immoral?

      gothamette

      September 11, 2016 at 9:23 am

  5. This is a good essay (I’ve read it before) especially in that it seeks to establish an explanation for how we got where we are, that both sides of the political spectrum glorified abstract ‘goodness’ and that capitalists looked out for themselves (see excerpt below). But, it should be understood that though the Stormfront crowd don’t dominate even Sailer’s comments they nevertheless have been operating in a philosophical vacuum with the hated K. MacDonald offering one of the only overarching historical explanations for how events developed the way they did. That doesn’t, of course, make the much hated MacDonald explanation true or less of a lie, but you can’t organize an intellectual response to real events (immigration invasion) without a coherent explanation for the present (as the essayists notes) and the alt-right has largely failed to fill that gap. There needs to be more effort put into creating a coherent historical explanation for how things came to be (and I understand TUJ is seeking to do that).

    “This yearning to appear high-minded has caused conservatives to equate principle with abstraction. They take the philosophic argument that “love of one’s own” is ultimately an insufficient basis for goodness to be reason’s last word and thus assume that anything particular—including their own country—must be, in and of itself, low and unworthy of their unalloyed allegiance: the high qua high always has some admixture of the abstract. Hence the continued insistence that, for America to be good, it must be conflated with its principles. Against any common-sense resistance to the latest righteous, destructive fad, conservatives and liberals alike scold from the same hymnal: “That’s not who we are.” To which Trump supporters instinctively respond: speak for yourselves. Maybe that’s not who you are, but it’s who we are, and we’re fed up with your sanctimony.”

    Curle

    September 9, 2016 at 10:52 am

    • The Moldbug-TUJ explanation is “It’s Puritanism’s fault.” I don’t like this explanation because it seems to me that Puritanism belongs to the American essence, although it’s not the whole of that essence, and I like America. Maybe Progressivism’s mutant Puritanism, but then cancer’s mutant flesh and we don’t blame healthy flesh for its cancerous outgrowths.
      Who are you quoting in your bottom paragraph, Curle? I don’t recall seeing those sentences in the Publius essay and didn’t find them upon re-skimming the essay, although my recollection and re-skimming-power aren’t imperfect.
      Publius seems to be a traditionalist-conservative who faults high-status traditionalist-conservatives for not taking their own doctrine seriously; he says that “If conservatives are right about the importance of virtue, morality, religious faith, stability, character and so on in the individual …then they must believe—mustn’t they?—that we are headed off a cliff.” He thinks that they ARE right about these things; only they should take their own professed conclusions about what’s important much more seriously.

      Garr

      September 9, 2016 at 12:39 pm

      • Curle’s quote is from the second Publius essay Leon linked.

        destructure

        September 9, 2016 at 7:00 pm

      • Garr,
        I’ve only just become familiar w/the “Puritan hypothesis,” and frankly, I can’t be bothered to keep up with alt-right memes – they are so quirky and eccentric – but it strikes me that the “Puritan hypothesis” is a vulgar borrowing of Colin Woodard’s description of Yankeedom in his brilliant AMERICAN NATIONS, which I have recommended here many times. I first learned of this book on an alt-right site.

        gothamette

        September 9, 2016 at 8:38 pm

      • Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. Enough of a good thing can be a bad thing at a different time. Nationalism runs on a continuum from ethnomasochist cuck to Adolf Hitler, and both ends are bad (Hitler managed to get his country cut in half for almost five decades and hated by everyone, not to mention giving his worst enemies their own country for the first time in 2000 years).

        SFG

        September 9, 2016 at 8:59 pm

    • Thanks, Destructure. I meant to write “aren’t perfect” or “are imperfect”. (First wrote “are imperfect” then wanted to change it to “aren’t perfect” but only changed it halfway, or vice-versa.)
      Gothamette, I first became acquainted with “the Puritan hypothesis” through Moldbug, and he think he cited a book by Michael Walzer called The Revolution of the Saints, which I subsequently read and found very interesting, not only because the early Puritans really do look (in a social sense) a lot like Communist “study-groups” (quoting the recent great right-wing Coen Bros movie Hail Caesar!) but also because they look a lot like shul-congregations. I think it’s a strong and plausible hypothesis, but I want it to be false!

      Garr

      September 10, 2016 at 7:33 am

      • I’ll have to take a look at Michael Walzer’s book. You should have a look at Colin Woodard’s American Nations. He explains a lot in a much more readable, accessible way than DH Fisher (Albion’s Seed) – one of Sailer/Khan’s sacred texts. In American Nations he subjects “Yankeedom” to an excruciating analysis, the great and the terrible, and juxtaposes them with Dixie. It clarified a lot of my misunderstanding about American culture. Jews play zero role in the enmity between Yankeedom & Dixie – imagine that!

        For better or worse, this country is Yankeedom writ large and the things the alt right hates about Jews are really Yankeedom with a Yiddish accent. Oy vey, I just slipped into an alt-right trope, what a shonda!

        (I was never able to get through a post by Moldbug.)

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    • Belief in abstract principles is a medium-high IQ verbal trait. You will notice that high IQ quants don’t believe in ideologies, religion or abstract ideas about ‘fairness’ or ‘justice’ except a dunderheaded Kantian regression or libertarian anti wedgy paradise.

      Embellishing the past to fit a (subjective) NARRATIVE FUNCTION for today’s aims or trying to distill a raison d’etre of a tribe into slogans and buzzwords is a fool’s errand in terms of truth.

      Tribes exist based on genetics and shared symbolics. Not overarching, quasi religious utopian goals which in world history have never united anyone, that wasn’t going to be united by genetic individual or tribal self interest.

      The truth is there is no essence of America.

      The Philosopher

      September 10, 2016 at 6:19 pm

  6. Great essay. There was one thing I strongly disagreed with. Otherwise, It mirrors my opinions almost exactly.

    destructure

    September 9, 2016 at 11:41 am

  7. Great essay. But don’t call it a screed; that word has a negative connotation. It’s what leftists call conservative articles and essays, believing them to be based not on rational, good-faith principles, but on “anger,” “fear,” “hate,” etc.

    Hermes

    September 9, 2016 at 12:04 pm

  8. This fairly obscure guy on youtube provides the best “big tent” alt-right definition that I’ve found so far:

    Essentially it’s the idea that human beings are not interchangeable. He’s not the most charismatic speaker but worth listening to.

    Anon1

    September 9, 2016 at 12:28 pm

  9. The 4chan/DailyStormer types are way different than Stormfronters. Stormfronters are a natural outgrowth of Nazism, the 4chan types are just fucking nuts. They don’t just hate Jews; they hate everybody.

    Trump is down by 4 in the latest Ras poll. The pro Trump polls like Ras and USC are going down for Trump while the anti Trump polls are going up. Weird election.

    Otis the Sweaty

    September 9, 2016 at 12:35 pm

    • I read somewhere that Rasmussen was sold to a liberal group not long ago.

      vdorta

      September 9, 2016 at 7:12 pm

  10. Sailer has every bit the verbal dexterity that Publius does, it’s just that Sailer doesn’t occupy the earnestness niche. Publius is head-on earnestness.

    Marty

    September 9, 2016 at 12:39 pm

    • I only meant that it’s not Sailer’s writing style.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 9, 2016 at 2:33 pm

    • When he’s on his game, Sailer is verbally dexterous. He’s great at interpreting voter data, for example. But mostly in the last few years he’s become lazy, quoting swathes of NY Times articles and inserting a snarky aside. Then there is his obsession/allergy to Jews and country clubs. It’s become tiresome.

      What gave Sailer away was a post he did about (if memory serves) “partially Jewish” politicians, using the Australian guy (Turnbull?) as an example. This is classic Nazi Jew-hatred, seeking out blood quantums. It turned me off to Sailer permanently. It was quite revealing.

      gothamette

      September 10, 2016 at 8:08 am

      • You should go back and re-read Sailer’s posts about country clubs. They don’t reflect any allergy to either Jews or country clubs. Instead, they’re part of his overall obsession with describing things accurately, i.e. “noticing.” Leftism, what ails us all, is a war on noticing, e.g. on black crime. What he notices is that at Jewish clubs, there’s more emphasis on great dining rooms than great course architecture, whereas for WASPs it’s the opposite. This is either accurate or it’s not, but it either way it’s not mean-spirited. What he also notices, or perhaps just peculates about, is that high status and highly assimilated German Jews in the U.S. have long had their own country clubs, so when you hear Ashkenazi Jews complain about exclusion from country clubs, they’re not truthfully indicting ventricles, but rather other Jews, who thought them low class. That’s a big point: imagine if Jewish animus toward gentikes is actually just misdirected resentment of higher caste Jews. For you to miss this justifies a central element of alt-right thinking, I.e., that women are insufficiently analytical to have the vote.

        Marty

        September 10, 2016 at 1:41 pm

      • Marty,
        The point I was making, which you are insufficiently analytical to understand, is that Steve Sailer’s obsession with the non-issue ofAshkenazi Jewish resentment over country clubs slights, which he returns to over and over again, is an example of his allergy towards Jews. I also coupled this with his obsession over the Jewish blood quantum of foreign politicians. Perhaps you are too much of an aspie to understand what I’m saying, so I won’t waste much time on it, or you. Have a nice life.

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 4:37 pm

      • Woah, goatheme really lost her tempter at the woman shiv. I think Sailer comprehensively details his reasoning on Jews in a recent post explaining that he finds that Jews are very prickly (unsurprisingly) about Galtonian views on HBD, but that he just wants people to notice HBD in the same way people notice different breeds of dog. Sailer is not anti-semitic in the “irrational mob” way many Woody Allen types might hold, but like me, fairly cognisant that many jewish elites support open borders or DIEVERSITY for a reason (as shown by their overwhelming favouring of Hilary). Its very important for people that use that trigger word, to explain exactly what anti-semitism is and what specific things fall into it. If you survey your grandparents I would bet my house their definition is more lax than yours.

        In the end it would be a pointless exercise, anti-semitism, much like any other -ism is whatever you can get away with in the Struggle of the WIll.

        The Philosopher

        September 10, 2016 at 6:31 pm

      • Prole Jews LOVE Donald Trump and elite white gentiles favor diversity and Hillary, so you and Steve picking on Jews for what gentile whites are also doing rings antisemitic to me.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 10:43 pm

      • Right, plus I never said Sailer is anti- Semitic. I said he has an “allergy” to Jews. I gave two specific examples, which I refuse to repeat. You can read them.

        This place is turning into a Usenet newsgroup. the next thing I’m going to say is “learn to read.” At that point the place has really turned into a Usenet newsgroup.

        You know what else I really hate about the alt right? Their use of idiotic in group phrases. The stupidest one is shiv. somebody’s been fapping to heartiste when he uses that.

        gothamette

        September 11, 2016 at 9:06 am

      • Marty –

        German Jews are a subset of Ashkenazi Jews. Among medieval Jews, the place-term “Ashkenaz” was associated with Germany, though the term has older roots that yield other pace associations. The German Jews were looking down their noses at East European Jews. There aren’t that many pure German Jews left, and I think that the divide between German Jews and Eastern European Jews no longer has much cultural salience.

        nebbish

        September 10, 2016 at 8:10 pm

      • Prole Jews LOVE Donald Trump and elite white gentiles favor diversity and Hillary, so you and Steve picking on Jews for what gentile whites are also doing rings antisemitic to me.

        And educated upper middle class black people behave better than underclass whites as liberals love to point out. But that doesn’t stop the fact that blacks are still much more likely to engage in behaviors that cause problems for the country than white people are. I don’t understand what standard you’re using that makes it OK to shit on and want to exclude blacks but not jews.

        Magnavox

        September 11, 2016 at 12:52 am

      • Educates middle class blacks who behave well shouldn’t be excluded from anything.

        That aside, a country needs an elite, and even without Jews the elite would still be liberal so nothing would change. In Europe, where there are no Jews, they are even more leftists than in the United States.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 7:54 am

      • It’s easy to miss, but at least some of Sailer’s occasional pot shots at Jews are strictly retaliative, he just never declares open war. Here’s a recent example.

        On Aug.5, the Jewish Forward published “Human Biodiversity: the Pseudoscientific Racism of the Alt-Right”, prominently mentioning Sailer, thus implicitly slamming him as “pseudoscientific” and “racist”. First shot fired.

        On Aug.11, Sailer ran a post called “Human Biodiversity and Science” not mentioning the Forward, but talking explicitly about Jews. His commentariat generated the expected volumes of nasty. Retaliation shot fired.

        On Aug.12, in a separate blog post, he fisked the Forward article, this time not mentioning the word “Jew” once. War not declared.

        Titus

        September 11, 2016 at 4:44 am

      • Educates middle class blacks who behave well shouldn’t be excluded from anything.

        I think thats incredibly disingenuous. You certainly don’t seem to have any problem with alt righters arguing the contrary.

        Magnavox

        September 11, 2016 at 10:35 am

      • “When he’s on his game, Sailer is verbally dexterous. He’s great at interpreting voter data, for example. But mostly in the last few years he’s become lazy, quoting swathes of NY Times articles and inserting a snarky aside.”

        I’ve noticed that too over at Unz Sailer will pop through a couple of posts a day, but most of them are just large quotes of other news sources, with a few comments thrown in. It makes me wonder if he’s getting paid by the number of posts he makes over there.

        Mike Street Station

        September 11, 2016 at 2:00 pm

      • “I’ve noticed that too over at Unz Sailer will pop through a couple of posts a day, but most of them are just large quotes of other news sources, with a few comments thrown in. It makes me wonder if he’s getting paid by the number of posts he makes over there.”

        Maybe. I never thought of that. I just thought that he’s gotten lazy over the years. No one seriously questions his premises or facts in his comments. Long time ago he referred to commenters of other sites as “dittoheads.” Pot, kettle, black.

        He’s still pretty good at analyzing data. That’s his strong suit, but then he will veer off into Sailerian tangents such as the coalition of the fringes, which doesn’t take into account the vast swathe of America that doesn’t fit into this schema.

        gothamette

        September 12, 2016 at 10:55 am

    • “It’s easy to miss, but at least some of Sailer’s occasional pot shots at Jews are strictly retaliative, he just never declares open war. Here’s a recent example.”

      He’s not retaliating against The Forward. The Forward just noted his obsessions. He’s been obsessed with the Jewish obsession with country club slights for years. Except that Jews aren’t obsessed with Grandpa not being able to get into the goy country club. It’s his obsession. I wouldn’t say he’s obsessed with the Jewish blood quantum of fractionally Jewish politicians….but he is awfully….interested. Again and for the final time, I have never said Sailer is anti-Semitic. I said he had an “allergy.”

      Over and out.

      gothamette

      September 12, 2016 at 10:52 am

  11. Publius seems to me to be a traditionalist conservative (not at all an alt-rightist) who wishes other traditionalist conservatives were perceptive enough to see the practical course that their convictions entail and courageous enough to act accordingly.

    Garr

    September 9, 2016 at 12:43 pm

  12. Yesterday I was getting some hate on a site that is within the alt-right tent. What bothered me most is the assumption that because I’m Jewish I am a flaming liberal. Sure most Jews are liberal but we are not nearly as monolithic as black voters. Even Asian-Americans were more likely to vote for Obama than Jews were.

    I relate to the alt-right minus the antisemitism. It’s kind of upsetting to get hate from people that are overall like-minded to myself. I realize I could avoid the hate by posting under an anonymous handle instead of my name. Although what I encountered yesterday is fairly unusual. Most of the time when I post on alt-right sites nobody brings up Judaism or starts hating on me.

    Jay Fink

    September 9, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    • There were Jews who were prominent leaders in Italian fascism before Hitler convinced Mussolini to turn against Jews (Hitler used to deride Mussolini’s version as “kosher fascism”).

      David Pinsen

      September 9, 2016 at 3:59 pm

      • And they all wound up dead.

        Granted, the USA has no more powerful country to force Trump’s hand like Hitler did to Mussolini, but you can’t rerun history. It’s quite possible that a non-anti-semitic Germany might have gotten the Bomb, won the war, and been twice the size of the current one, but that’s not what happened.

        SFG

        September 9, 2016 at 9:09 pm

      • Right, they were highly assimilated Italian nationalists. I’m sure you know the history, Dave: that Italy wasn’t even a country until the unification in 1870, and that the Catholic Church was the chief enemy of Italian nationalism, and that Jews were some of the biggest Italian nationalists in the book. Like many Italians, they thought of Mussolini as a national savior, and supported him.

        Sure, sure, you know all that.

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 8:11 am

      • Oh, gothamette, is that the background? Thank you. I was always wondering what that was all about. It was an anticlerical thing. Yeah, I guess the whole racial thing didn’t make that much sense in Italy (heck, Jews look more Italian than Germans do!), but once your only foreign ally is Adolf Hitler, well, what are you going to do? And this is Benito Mussolini we’re talking about, after all.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 4:39 pm

      • @SFG

        http://www.jewishmag.com/101mag/italianjews/italianjews.htm

        I’m positive someone can turn this into an anti-Semitic trope. These guys are indefatigable. But mostly they wear other people out.

        gothamette

        September 11, 2016 at 9:31 am

    • Read Seidel’s ‘I’m a Jew and I’m on the Alt-Right’ in the Forward, and then read the comments.

      Reagan used to say someone who agreed with 70% of what you had to say wasn’t your enemy. As this shows you, someone who agrees with 95% of what you have to say can still be your enemy. That’s identity politics. The taint is in the blood.

      It’s a little weird given the ancestry of Mencius Moldbug, Paul Gottfried, Larry Auster, and our own Lion, but I’m convinced there’s no future for anyone with any discernible Jewish ancestry on the alt-right. I’m not sure it always meant what it does now, but I’d say your best shot is to pick the ‘next ideology over’–be a nationalist, a populist, or what have you.

      Does believing in HBD, immigration restriction, and a lack of white guilt mean you have to be a white nationalist? Of course not. But movements have a base, and that’s what the movement means now. Is this ultimately going to limit them? Quite possibly. But white identity always leads to antisemitism. That seems to be the historical pattern.

      Why is an interesting question. But it doesn’t change things.

      SFG

      September 9, 2016 at 9:07 pm

      • Don’t mind the comments on to that article too much, it was brigaded by people from The Right Stuff.

        Jason Liu

        September 10, 2016 at 12:24 am

      • lol, “future”… I don’t think anyone is looking at the alt-right as a career move or anything. It’s just an online think tank.

        An online think tank that is currently influencing politics at the highest level in the most powerful nation in the world!! YEAH DOG!!!

        shiva1008

        September 10, 2016 at 2:31 am

      • The next ideology over is Trumpism, which is, essentially, Steve Sailer’s Citizenism. Which is why the left’s calumnies against Trump as a racist, fascist, etc. are so unfortunate. Trumpism isn’t any of that; it’s the last firewall against it.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 2:55 am

      • Makes sense to me–alt-right is weird and reminds people of the guys who lost WW2.

        Soft nationalism–close borders, take care of your own first, respect the existing welfare state–might actually have some legs. Remember how conservatives used to all go on about how liberals were communists.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 2:08 pm

      • I might already be the next ideology over. I am in synch with Trump and Jeff Sessions and their mix of nationalism and populism. If the alt right is simply about white pride it isn’t for me. My perception is there is a lot more to it than that which is why merely seeing the words alt-right still shoots off dopamine in my brain.

        Jay Fink

        September 11, 2016 at 5:06 am

      • “It’s a little weird given the ancestry of Mencius Moldbug, Paul Gottfried, Larry Auster, and our own Lion, but I’m convinced there’s no future for anyone with any discernible Jewish ancestry on the alt-right.”

        Frankly, I just don’t think there IS an Alt Right political movement. The Alt Right seems to be a collection of blogs, websites, and twitter accounts with maybe 30,000 people worldwide who might identify as Alt right. What it isn’t, is a political movement. It’s not the Tea Party, which was a real movement that organized real people and had real demonstrations, and raised real money to support their candidates. The Alt Right isn’t even Occupy Wall Street. It’s a internet only phenomena. The real question regarding Jews is whether they can be American nationalists, or paleo-conservatives, or “Trumpists” in the sense that JAG means. I think the answer to that is clearly yes; no Pepe memes required.

        Mike Street Station

        September 11, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    • Heh. Voting for democrats doesn’t mean we’re liberal. Most minorities are not very liberal compared to white liberals. Identity politics is the driver there, not ideology.

      Jason Liu

      September 10, 2016 at 12:23 am

    • I realize I could avoid the hate by posting under an anonymous handle instead of my name.

      Uhhhh……

      … “Jay Fink” is a real name??!?

      ‘Cause it sounds like the most made-up pseudonym on earth…

      …. just when I thought I’d seen everything…

      Samson J.

      September 10, 2016 at 7:32 am

      • My grandpa’s last name was Finkelstein. He thought it sounded too Jewish so he shortened it to Fink…which still sounds Jewish.

        Jay Fink

        September 11, 2016 at 4:00 am

      • “My grandpa’s last name was Finkelstein. He thought it sounded too Jewish so he shortened it to Fink…which still sounds Jewish.”

        Any relation to Fink bread? I remember seeing those trucks all over the place when I was growing up. They used to sell bread to a lot of restaurants, hospitals, etc.

        Lewis Medlock

        September 12, 2016 at 4:24 pm

  13. Why do you say it’s a great essay than call it a “screed”?

    Hepp

    September 9, 2016 at 1:06 pm

    • Probably the same reason that in some contexts he calls himself a conservative or a person of the right, but then uses phrases like “right wing nonsense” when someone challenges his socialist economic views.

      Hermes

      September 9, 2016 at 2:47 pm

  14. I’m depressed now after reading this article.

    DdR

    September 9, 2016 at 2:12 pm

    • The article depressed me as well, because before it I thought, well if Trump loses, there are other options. Retake Congress with immigration patriots, for example. But he seems to be saying that it’s now or never, we must take the Presidency NOW, and if we don’t, it’s all over. I think he might be right.

      gothamette

      September 9, 2016 at 4:24 pm

      • That is what some of us have been trying to say without the eloquence. I told this to my friends last year as soon as Trump announced and I have commented similarly here. The USA is going the way of Europe, it’s socialism + globalism + postmodernism and there is no way back unless we change course now.

        vdorta

        September 9, 2016 at 7:22 pm

      • “The article depressed me as well, because before it I thought, well if Trump loses, there are other options. Retake Congress with immigration patriots, for example. But he seems to be saying that it’s now or never, we must take the Presidency NOW, and if we don’t, it’s all over. I think he might be right.”

        I’m surprised. Based on your previous posts here, I thought you had already gotten that this was a last gasp hail mary election for the right. As for the Flight 93 essay, I loved it, but there was nothing new there. It’s nothing that me and many others have been saying for years; demography is destiny and current trends mean the right loses, permanently. I’m just glad that Limbaugh gave this essay wide coverage. I had hoped this might sway some of the #nevertrump folks, but I’m guessing if you are still #nevertrump now, nothing is changing that. That was the impression I got from Jonah Goldberg’s G File column. He dismissed the entire concept, and the same WSJ facebook group still doesn’t get it. So the die is cast now I suppose. Glen Beck, Jonah Goldberg, Bret Stephens, and the rest of #nevertrump crowd has thrown in their lot with the Democrats.

        Mike Street Station

        September 11, 2016 at 2:21 pm

  15. Surely many anti Jewish white people are motivated by intellectual jealousy. They hate the fact that THE JEW is on average more intelligent than white people and wish to destroy them. The same psychological dynamic is clearly in play with respect to black hatred of whites. We don’t hate people who we believe are inferior to ourselves, because their existence makes us feel good. We hate people who we believe are superior to ourselves, because they make us feel bad.

    This would explain why even Jews who are sympathetic to alt right analyses are nevertheless abused.

    (I always tell libtards and leftits that Oriental brains are larger than white brains and that Orientals have a higher IQ. I know this will make them feel bad.)

    martin2

    September 9, 2016 at 4:31 pm

    • “They hate the fact that THE JEW is on average more intelligent than white people”

      Jews ARE white people, they just have a different religion.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 9, 2016 at 5:12 pm

      • Well they have still got some different genes that explains their higher average IQ. The world’s most eminent philosopher – Saul Kripke, the world’s most eminent physicist – Ed Witten, the world’s most eminent mathematician possibly Saharon Shelah. All Jews. This can’t be a coincidence.

        martin2

        September 9, 2016 at 5:58 pm

      • You don’t have to convince me that intelligence is a hereditable trait, and that different groups (like races, ethnicities, etc) can have different average IQs. Try convincing some liberals.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 9, 2016 at 6:05 pm

      • “Well they have still got some different genes that explains their higher average IQ.”

        That’s not necessarily true. It probably has more to do with assortative mating. It’s quite possible to have similar genotype with a different phenotype. For example, one can inherit multiple copies of a gene which would mean it’s more strongly expressed. Also, some DNA acts as a switch to turn other genes on or off. And, finally, one could have the same genes found in other groups but in a unique combination. After all, genes don’t act on their own. They’re part of a gene complex.

        The genetic distance between European gentiles and jews is no greater than it is between a lot of other European groups. There’s a very good reason for this. First, Jews are half modern European and half near-eastern. And, second, modern European are half paleo-european and half near eastern from the neolithic expansion. So both European genitles and jews received their genes from the same ancestral populations.
        *
        “Jews ARE white people, they just have a different religion.”

        I don’t doubt you’re white. But you’re a non religious jew. So the difference must be more than religion.

        destructure

        September 9, 2016 at 9:53 pm

      • Jewish people are totally white. I don’t get how people can say otherwise. Of course this is anecdotal as I am talking about the Jewish people I have known, seen, met. I can’t bring myself to dislike someone simply for being Jewish. It’s like asking me to dislike someone for being Episcopalian. Oh, wait. Episcopalians do get in my nerves.

        Dave

        September 9, 2016 at 10:51 pm

      • Come on, Lion. You’re an atheist and you’re still a Jew because your mother is one. It’s not just a religion.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 3:03 am

      • If I converted to another religion, started going to evangelical church or whatever, I’d stop being a Jew according to Jewish law. But yes the religion has weird rules that may not make sense to non-Jews, but if religion was all logical and made sense then it wouldn’t be a religion it would be science.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 11:52 am

      • Lion, I believe you’re wrong about Jewish law re out-conversion; Jewish converts to other religions remain Jews according to Jewish law:
        http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1269075/jewish/Is-a-Jew-Who-Converts-Still-Jewish.htm
        (Granted, this is a chabad source, but I’m sure it’s the standard “orthodox” halachah – I’ve seen this issue covered in non-chabad orthodox halachic summaries.)

        Garr

        September 10, 2016 at 1:29 pm

      • Jewish converts to other religions remain Jews according to Jewish law:

        You’re all confusing Jewishness with the Ashkenazi ethnicity – an Ashkenazi convert to Christianity is always genetically Ashkenazi regardless of his religion. But they may no longer be considered culturally or religiously Jewish after converting.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 11, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    • “THE JEW is on average more intelligent than white people”

      Absolutely false. Only jews repeat this myth to themselves.

      cognitive dissonance

      September 9, 2016 at 5:24 pm

      • Actually, liberals of all religions don’t believe in inherited intelligence, and certainly not in any ethnic differences in hereditable intelligence (that would be racist to think that).

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 9, 2016 at 5:44 pm

      • Or the myth that Askhenazim were prohibited from engaging in trades and manual labor occupations, including agriculture where they had no choice, but to became financiers, tax collectors and merchants. This has been debunked by some academics, and provided certain Jews with a superiority complex, that such work is beneath them, reserved only for gentiles. Jews dealt with value transference professions early on, because they had a natural talent for them, and partly because they were more educated than the average gentile around them.

        JS

        September 9, 2016 at 11:19 pm

      • Jews were required by their religion to read, while most gentiles were illiterate.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 10:51 am

      • Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending wrote an entire book about Ashkenazi IQ. I happen to think there is a flaw in their reasoning, but whatever – it’s not just Jews who repeat this to themselves.

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 8:13 am

    • martin2 – You should have come up with better examples of extraordinarily gifted Jews than Kripke and Witten. Kripke is not actually a philosopher – maybe he could have been one, if he had wanted. What he is, I think, is a clever scholar who specializes in making incremental advances on something called “analytic philosophy”. “Analytic philosophy” has nothing to do with what most people think of as philosophy, it is a sub-branch of legal studies (specifically, the intersection of natural law and grammar). So Kripke is not the sort of guy you want to sit next to on a plane for an hour if you want to talk about real philosophy. Spinoza – or Maimonides the pro-life hero of his day – were the Jewish philosophers you should have mentioned if you wanted good examples. As for Witten, nobody thinks he is not sort of brilliant, but to the extent that he is brilliant, it is in a fairly useless way – his record of predicting physical occurrences with his supposedly remarkable mathematical insight is not very good, it is at best about three orders of magnitude less than that of Einstein and two orders of magnitude less than that of Feynman, who remain by far the best commonly-known examples of gifted Jewish physicists. To change gears a little, Jews have been criticized for low spatial intelligence, but Picasso-Ruiz and Velazquez both apparently had Jewish grandparents, I am no fan of Picasso but Velazquez was an amazing painter – amazing portraits, fantastic still lives, and deeply felt landscapes, not to mention several intensely religious images combining those elements in a way that seems almost divinely inspired.

      howitzer daniel

      September 9, 2016 at 10:08 pm

      • Sorry that was Ruiz y Picasso, not Picasso-Ruiz, and I meant Jewish ancestors, not Jewish grandparents…

        howitzer daniel

        September 10, 2016 at 10:44 am

      • Where do you get the information that Pablo Picasso had Sephardic ancestry?

        To even compare Sephardic Jews (those of Spanish origin, not Middle Eastern) to Ashkenazim, is like a discussion of aristocracy vs prole. Conversos, of which many Spanish intellectuals and artists of the Golden Age, traced their lineage, were voluntary Jewish converts to Catholicism.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 1:25 pm

      • Nothing to add other than that I agree analytic philosophy as practiced by Wittgenstein and so on is philosophy for engineers who have no theory of mind. I find it quite amusing you’ve dumped it into legal studies hahaha. You want to sit beside classicist on a plane. I think they outrank philosophers in verbal.

        Jews are blessed with verbal IQ. I wager that asians have even better quant. But once you ally verbal you can do theoretical work because your mind can work with liquids as well as solids. The nobel list reflects this. Verbal is by far the most g loaded, meaning it predicts other types of intelligence. You can see it in the physiognomy of a corporate lawyer vs a computer programmer. The latter looks ‘off’ or even retarded.

        Musical intelligence is prob the best indicator of reproductive potential for reasons unknown to me. My observation is that performing and compositional musicians are better looking than physicists, philosophers or visual artists/movie directors. Aesthetics don’t lie.

        The Philosopher

        September 10, 2016 at 6:48 pm

      • Kripke is certainly a philosopher — deals with major problems such as whether words refer to collections of ideas or to things, and whether YOU could have been otherwise as opposed to there being possible people very similar to you — he just doesn’t offer an explicit Big Picture. He’s not an “analytical philosopher” unless “analytical” means “precise” to you, in which case all philosophers are good at what they do only to the extent to which they are “analytical”. I have no idea what you mean when you say that analytical philosophy is “a sub-branch of legal studies (the intersection of natural law and grammar).” I had a graduate class with Kripke; most commenters here would get a real kick out of sitting next to him on a plane for an hour. He was asking Yeshiva University students questions about physics-theory; he’s the sort of person who’s interested in everything.

        Garr

        September 10, 2016 at 7:08 pm

      • JS –

        Many of the ancestors of the Spanish Golden Age conversos became Catholics under duress in 1391 when there was a wave of anti-Jewish violence in Spain.

        nebbish

        September 10, 2016 at 8:30 pm

      • JS – my comment did not mention Sephardic heritage (I think it is unlikely you fully understand the Sephardic accomplishments, but that is another story). Picasso himself stated or hinted that he had a Jewish background – most likely a converso background, given the context, through his father (Ruiz), although it can’t be ruled out that he was hinting that either the Picassos or Lopezes (old family names) were a partially Jewish family. Patrick O’Brian, who followed this more closely than I ever have, wrote that there is no documentary evidence of Jewish ancestry on either side, but that one or more of his (Pablo’s) relatives hinted they would not admit a Jewish heritage if one existed. That, coupled with Pablo’s statements, is the most relevant evidence. Pablo Picasso himself stated or joked, on at least one occasion, that such a heritage existed, without going into details. Whatever his ancestry was, the sad thing is, he could have been a real artist, and a good man and a good husband, but he was just not bright enough to reject the atheist and existential propaganda of his times; he was, at best, an artisan, a successful flatterer of the powerful. Maybe he was one of the most talented artisans ever, but still, he was just an artisan. One wonders what he thought, looking at the heart-felt paintings of so many of his contemporaries, many with much less talent but so much more genius and love for others than him…

        howitzer daniel

        September 10, 2016 at 9:54 pm

      • Many Spaniards are open to the fact that they have Jewish ancestry, and it’s more about nostalgia than wanting to be identified as Jewish.

        Having a Sephardic ancestor doesn’t effect one’s artistic ability, as one can observe from the paintings of Velazquez.

        One of the major accomplishment of the Sephardic Jews in Spain, that differs from the Askhenazim, was their ability to engage in successful farming throughout their history. Most of the early Jewish settlers in America were in fact Sephardim, and many were involved in agriculture. Some of the Spanish farmers who came to New Mexico on the other side of the new world, during the late 16th century, could have been of Converso ancestry.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 11:17 am

      • The idea that the Conversos were forced to convert to Catholicism does not hold out to some historians. Conversos were seen as rebels and outcasts in the Jewish communities who maintained their customs, therefore such views would suggest that most Conversos practiced Catholicism as a matter of choice.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 11:32 am

      • And Spain’s historical legacy of uniting and assimilating its varied demographics was a lot more ruthless, but superior than anything the English or today’s Anglo Prole Sphere have done with its diverse population. Nations thrive on collectivism and unity, not with the brand of individualism and diversity that one finds in America or the UK.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 11:36 am

      • Garr – I am glad to hear from someone who has met him (I have not) that Kripke is a better conversationalist than I would have guessed. I would nevertheless wager that most people commenting here would get more, philosophically, out of an hour’s conversation with several of the students in that seminar than with Kripke, but I can’t know that for sure without more information. Anyway, to me, the word “analytic” is an adjective, in this context, that does not necessarily mean “precise” – I was using it in the following sense : “analytic philosophy includes not only the work of the core group of famous analytic philosophers who flourished for several decades in the 20th century but also the work of subsequent philosophers who felt obliged, for professional or other reasons, to limit themselves to a similar set of questions as addressed by the core group.” “Analytic philosophy” does not include your description of two of Kripke’s interests – the contested Platonic question of forms (collections of individual things/ ideas?) and the phenomenological question of personal identity (Husserl, no analytic philosopher, is famous for asking that question) – good for him. That being said, we don’t all do what we should with our gifts. Whatever I think is besides the point – but maybe Kripke could have done much more with his rare gifts: maybe he would agree, maybe he wouldn’t. Maybe he is writing a long unpublished philosophical poem that will change all of our opinions of him.

        howitzer daniel

        September 11, 2016 at 11:54 am

      • Interestingly, pious Italian Catholics once perceived Spanish Catholics as heretics, because Catholicism in Spain was used as a political machine. Jews who converted to Catholicism, were in better social standing than those who didn’t. Other parts of Europe could only tolerate Jews as an eternal outsiders or expulsed them. The Catholic Elites in Spain were ruthless in assimilating those who were different from them. This is what made Spain a superior nation over their other European brethren. Machiavelli was very enamored with the Spanish, as he saw Italy being fragmented into different city states.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 12:49 pm

      • It would be interesting to do a comparative study as to why Spanish Catholics were able to convert Jews to Christianity en masse, and why individuals like Martin Luther failed.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 12:59 pm

    • Surely that has something to do with the antisemitism of the crazier Stormfront crowd, but it can’t be compared to the situation between Blacks and Whites. North European Whites aren’t going to sneak into Israel. There would be no desire to go there even if the country were all-Ashkenazi.

      Among the Orientals, only Japan has produced a society which can equal those found in NW Europe. It is not obviously better, despite its high IQ. Korea is getting there. Taiwan is not, and China will not.

      IQ ain’t everything. It doesn’t make sense to rank ethnic groups on the basis of IQ. Rank them on the basis of which groups build better societies:

      1. Northwest Europeans, Japanese, and probably Koreans.
      2. Jews.
      3. South Europeans, Chinese.
      4. East Europeans.
      5. Who cares?

      LF

      September 9, 2016 at 10:23 pm

      • That’s right, Israel is a better country than Spain or Italy, living standards wise. You must be kidding!

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 1:13 pm

      • Any smart reader here knows that Israel is an extension of the Anglo-Prole-Sphere. Not only are America and the UK its staunchest allies, Israel mirrors these nations when it comes to high income inequality and its high gini coefficient.

        http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/21/news/economy/worst-inequality-countries-oecd/

        And by the way, all East Asian societies have high income inequality, more than Southern Euro nations!!!

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 9:09 pm

    • “They hate the fact that THE JEW is on average more intelligent than white people and wish to destroy them.”

      No, that’s not it. Asians are smarter on average than whites and they don’t hate them (though they may not want their country to be inundated with them). For that matter, may of them don’t hate Jews in Israel; in fact, they see Israel as a role model for the US.

      David Pinsen

      September 10, 2016 at 2:58 am

    • Lion,

      “If I converted to another religion, started going to evangelical church or whatever, I’d stop being a Jew according to Jewish law. But yes the religion has weird rules that may not make sense to non-Jews, but if religion was all logical and made sense then it wouldn’t be a religion it would be science.”

      Ashkenazi Jewish is an ethnicity as well as a religion. You can say, plausibly, “she looks Jewish”. No one says, “she looks Catholic”.

      David Pinsen

      September 10, 2016 at 9:36 pm

  16. I’m gonna disagree with the Lion. Respectfully, because I wish he were right. Oh God, do I wish he were right. I love this country too. I believe in HBD. I like white people who aren’t part of the Nazi party, which is most of them.

    Remember Seidel’s little ‘I’m a Jew, and I’m on the alt-right’ essay? Remember the 348 comments with contents like ‘Go jump in the oven’? I was expecting those, even a lot of them. What I wasn’t expecting was almost nobody saying ‘Yeah, we could use more like you’. Usually you get a few dissenters.

    Back when it was more about the Dark Enlightenment and Moldbug writing his virtual tomes, things were different. Heartiste linked to you and even gave you a friendly mention; if you look back, the very first ‘the end of America’ pic was that girl taking a silly selfie at the Holocaust Memorial. The guy would often forget he was supposed to be antisemitic. But it’s now pretty clear; he’s dropping parentheses and talking about ovens. Heck, the ‘9 theses of the alt-right’ he posted (which you will more or less agree with) have comments where the commenters go after *each other* for being secret Jews.

    Sorry, but Margherita Sarfatti had to leave Italy. You can’t make common cause with people who want to kill you. Maybe you can try to get a gig at Breitbart, they still seem cool, I don’t know. It’s not fair. You were HBD-blogging back when these Nazi-Pepe guys were learning to read. Steve Sailer linked to you. You feel betrayed, and you’re *right*.

    I’m not saying this is smart on the alt-right’s part; antisemitism seems like a really weird prejudice out of the 1940s to any normal American who hasn’t been reading their stuff for the past 10 years. But that’s the path they’ve taken. Maybe the ideology fits better, maybe they think racially so it has to be a racial group that’s their enemy because ‘liberalism’ is too abstract. I don’t know and you’ll never really get an answer. But that’s what people think now.

    The big problem, IMHO, is that you don’t have enough people on your side to make a movement. Mainstream lefty Jews really believe in social justice, the smaller population of righty Jews is afraid of the WNs and anything that reeks of them, and the rest of the alt-right is as I’ve described. Too many lefty Jews pushing social justice memes. Sure there are plenty of lefty goyim doing it too, but it’s enough to give the parentheses-slingers the ring of truth.

    You may still manage to prove me wrong. For the sake of the USA, I hope you do.

    SFG

    September 9, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    • If the Pepe posting neo-nazis take over the whole of the alt-right, the movement is finished. It will exist as a quirky fringe, and fail at accomplishing anything for the same reason white nationalist organizations have failed to stop leftism.

      -There isn’t enough of them
      -Their arrogance drives away any natural allies
      -Their cleverness does not extend to reconstructing social and moral ideologies

      It’d be a great pity to see all the youthful momentum built up by the alt-right degenerate into the irrelevancy of Amren or VDARE, but that’s the path it seems to be heading down.

      Jason Liu

      September 10, 2016 at 12:30 am

      • They can’t take the country, but they could take the GOP.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 11:29 am

      • They can’t take the country, but they could take the GOP.

        Why are you trolling us with this imaginary threat from the altright?

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 10, 2016 at 5:56 pm

      • I’m not trolling anybody. I find it really unlikely Spencer and his boys are going to take the country. But they could push the GOP in an antisemitic direction that makes large swathes of the country off-limits. I agree that’s not the same as ‘taking’ the GOP.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 7:32 pm

      • Highly unlikely. more likely is that they will succeed in turning their good ideas, such as immigration restriction, into radioactive non-starters. Nobody will want to have anything to do with an idea that is associated with the alt right. great job guys.

        gothamette

        September 11, 2016 at 9:11 am

      • “I find it really unlikely Spencer and his boys are going to take the country. But they could push the GOP in an antisemitic direction that makes large swathes of the country off-limits.”

        I don’t see how that would be possible. Not unless evangelicals totally separate from the GOP and go back to the Democratic Party. Evangelicals are pro Israel and pro Jewish, even if the feeling isn’t mutual.

        Mike Street Station

        September 11, 2016 at 2:30 pm

      • I find it really unlikely Spencer and his boys are going to take the country. But they could push the GOP in an antisemitic direction that makes large swathes of the country off-limits.

        He’s going to make a laughing stock out of himself and his movement and you know it.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 11, 2016 at 2:33 pm

      • TUJ: I really hope you are right.

        I do remember one of the commenters on Sailer’s who supposedly had known him claiming Spencer got kicked out of his housing complex over an argument over brown (yes, brown) flip-flops as proper wear, but that’s third-hand and who knows?

        SFG

        September 11, 2016 at 10:25 pm

    • Maybe you are just obsessed with finding anti-semitism for personal reasons. I read “alt-right” blogs every day and I never come across any true anti-semitism, of the hateful type. There are a lot of Jewish conspiracy type posters, I would consider them the fringe. That’s not a pet issue of mine. But I definitely am in favor of analyzing things dispassionately, no matter who it may offend. Jews definitely seem to have a level of influence far exceeding their numbers in the US population. Again, it’s not a pet issue of mine.

      Jewish people acting in the interest of Jewish people is all well and good, and has been going on for millenia. But it’s not going to change things at the highest level. For that we need something new, a coalition of people with similar interests. The alt-right isn’t going away, and it’s not a fringe hate group, no matter what some hysterical people may say.

      I’m not much of a joiner, but I am a free thinker. If someone says, “Oh but you are part of a group where people think X.” Well there are about 97 different objections to that. First is that the same is true of the left. They have their hateful fringe. Second is that alt-right by its very nature is not a structured organization. Third is that no one gives a s*** about me anyway, so it doesn’t really matter what I think. I am inclined to say we don’t need the label, but labels have power.

      TLDR the alt-right will continue on, anti-semitism will continue on, unfortunately, and some people will decide they can’t be a part of it. No one gives a s***.

      But SFG and Gothamette, YOU do not get to speak for the whole movement and its future. You only get to speak for yourselves.

      shiva1008

      September 10, 2016 at 2:46 am

      • 1. Believing that Jews have some sort of conspiracy thing going is antisemitic.
        2. Liberal Jews, just like liberal white gentiles, are the very opposite of ethnocentric, preferring to help minorities over their own people.
        3. Jews are influential because of higher average IQ. That’s not a conspiracy, and liberal Jews don’t even believe in hereditable IQ.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 11:50 am

      • “you do not get to speak for the movement.” Who the fuck says I think I do? I have repeatedly said that I am not part of the alt right, I couldn’t be if I wanted to and I don’t want to.

        It’s your goddamn movement. If you can’t stand the fact that I am pointing out some dirty little truths about your movement, that’s not my problem. I am going to point out what I think is the truth and you can suck it.

        The great god Richard Spencer just had a press conference in which he bluntly said that he wants a white ethno-state, Jews not welcome. That’s his opinion. I really don’t care what he thinks.

        But while I’m commenting here I am not going to be told that Richard Spencer isn’t an anti-semite and that the movement that he heads isn’t anti-semitic. It is. And If you deny that, you are a liar. I think that you guys need to find a safe space.

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 12:09 pm

      • Lion,

        “2. Liberal Jews, just like liberal white gentiles, are the very opposite of ethnocentric, preferring to help minorities over their own people.”

        The alt-right view on this is that liberal Jews help minorities, and want to import them to the US, out of Jewish self interest. The idea is that Jews are safer in a heterogenous country with more visible minorities. Less chance for another shoah that way.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 9:34 pm

      • Yes, that’s that they believe, which is totally false. Makes no sense at all. How does turning the U.S., the most Jew-friendly nation in the history of the world (outside of Israel), into a third-world hellhole help the Jews? It doesn’t.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 10:50 pm

      • Here’s proof that Jews like 3rd world filth around them:

        Most Jews in America live in NYC.

        And it’s not that Jews exclusively want NAMs in their environs. It’s about a balancing act. Jews do not want to live in NAM majority neighborhoods, but they also do not want to be in towns that are strictly a White Christian demographic.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 11:12 pm

      • That’s not how they think about it.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 11:14 pm

      • Jews feel the most comfortable in segregated cities and towns. And multicult areas are the most segregated.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 11:23 pm

      • No true, you are confusing “Jewish” with “elite white.” Prole Jews prefer the company of other prole Jews. All Jews FEAR being the only Jew in a Christian area. At least my parents’ generation fears that.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 7:52 am

      • There aren’t many prole Jews in NYC, with the exception of the LES and parts of Brooklyn. Most Jews in NYC live in elite neighbors with wealthy White gentiles. NYC is segregated and so is LA, DC and Chicago, where Jews also reside in large numbers. Jews do not feel comfortable in a city where there is only main demographic.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 10:06 am

      • There are HUGE numbers of prole Jews in New York City. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Visit Staten Island or Brooklyn or southern Long Island or New Jersey and you will find loads of prole Jews.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 10:15 am

      • Given the fact that Jews are different from gentiles, in a way concerning their tribal nature, the idea of a prole Jew is the type who have very little or no association with elitist Jews. Yes, I think of Jews from Staten Island (although they are negligible in that borough) and Jews who live in Southern Brooklyn as proles. And the meaning of prole and Jewish is not simply based on income or religion, but association with more elitist Jews. I know a few Jewish proles who live in Park Slope, and such privileges were granted to them, simply because they knew well to do Jews who afforded them a living space in an elite neighborhood.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 10:47 am

      • Prole Jews have no privileges.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 12:08 pm

      • Yes they do, especially when it comes to housing in nice neighborhoods that are coveted by SWPLs.

        You might not like Hasidics, but they are a protected class and get benefits that you and I do not get. Moreover, quite a number of Hasidics are happy with their way of life.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 12:15 pm

      • “The alt-right view on this is that liberal Jews help minorities, and want to import them to the US, out of Jewish self interest. The idea is that Jews are safer in a heterogenous country with more visible minorities. Less chance for another shoah that way.”

        A quickie unpack.

        “The alt-right view on this is that liberal Jews help minorities, and want to import them to the US, out of Jewish self interest.”

        Liberal Jews do not want to help minorities & import them into the US out of Jewish self-interest. They want this (and yes, I admit they do, to my endless frustration) because they are LIBERALS who happen to be of Jewish origin. They are not of sound mind. Their identity is corroded and all manner of demons from liberal Protestant America have rushed in to fill the vacuum.

        gothamette

        September 12, 2016 at 11:01 am

    • I’m not saying this is smart on the alt-right’s part

      The alt right isn’t doing that at all because the alt right isn’t even really a movement. Alt Right is a blanket term for Nazis, Paleos and Populists.

      Real world Alt Righters completely ignore the Jewish Question simply because it has no political traction. 4chan Nazis are big into the Jew hating stuff but they don’t exist outside of social media.

      Otis the Sweaty

      September 10, 2016 at 2:52 am

    • SFG, I agree that altrightism is in fact, as it is, thoroughly Jew-detesting. Here, though, you seem to suggest that it isn’t NECESSARILY Jew-detesting. In a comment above, you (correctly) assert that “white-nationalism” (scare quotes because of the absurdity of the phrase) IS necessarily Jew-detesting. So, the question is whether altrightism and white-nationalism are one and the same or not. If altrightism is American nationalism, then they are not. But altrightists are explicitly pro-Putin. So, altrightism isn’t American nationalism. The fact that altrightists are often also pro-China might seem to suggest that altrightism isn’t white-nationalism either. But I believe that they are only pro-China in the way that Hitlerites were pro-Japan: China is seen as an exemplar. Putin is seen as “one of us,” even as “our leader,” not merely as an exemplar. So, altrightism tends (at least) to merge with white-nationalism. That is, people who call themselves altrightists tend to be white-nationalists, not American nationalists. The alternative is Larry Auster’s American nationalism. I think that an American nationalist program would have a loosely feudal look to it. Permit “discrimination” of any sort, anywhere, and things will fall into place. Classes of lords, advisors to lords (guess who these would tend to be?), retainers/enforcers, technicians, and laborers/peasants will inevitably emerge along roughly ethnic/racial lines. Ethnic/racial hatred will be as ridiculous as it would have been in Medieval NWEurope when things were going well.

      Garr

      September 10, 2016 at 7:59 am

    • @SFG,

      Everything you’re saying is right. I pointed out the anti-Semitism of the alt-right a few months ago here, hesitantly, and I got schlonged. Now it’s out in the open.

      The nature of the schlonging was: you’re exaggerating, you’re a bitch, fuck you, get lost, and “never mind, the alt-right has no power.” I have to laugh at the last. Has there ever been a movement that bragged about its own ineffectuality?

      No matter how much I gave the alt-right credit for vigorously pushing certain issues that had to be pushed, I was a bitch for pointing out the truth. I think that some Jewish guys are butt hurt because they can’t be part of a group that wants nothing of them.

      I will continue to speak the truth. I’m happy to see that the power of the alt-right is being acknowledged. They are highly influential in the culture, forget the Republican party. But, as they grow more influential, their message gets diluted. The overwhelming majority of the white US population will not be receptive to their anti-Semitism. Quite the contrary. Their Jew-hatred is repulsive to normal people. They are damned by it.

      Likewise, Richard Spencer’s imaginary white ethno-state is a non-starter. There is no “white” ethnic group in the US. I could conceivably see an independent South, because the South is a concept that has some substance, but there ain’t no group of people called “white Americans.” All comments defending the concept of a white ethno-state will be politely ignored, because I don’t waste time on idiots. But even the South won’t happen. Does anyone really think that USG will allow a significant portion of its land mass and wealth to leave? I have a loony bin for you.

      That said, the cultural observations of the alt-righters are always worth a read. I’ve been reading their stuff on the Colin Kaepernick intifada. I know that Lion doesn’t care about this stuff but in the real world pro football is a very important part of the US, culturally and financially. If black players don’t stand for the anthem, what will that do to the NFL? And coming right in the middle of The Flight 93 Election? This is more important than the Nazi memes. The Nazi memes will be rejected by 99% of Americans. But what happens if the symbol of American patriotism is openly rejected by NFL players?

      gothamette

      September 10, 2016 at 8:25 am

      • PS After I wrote the above I checked out the NYtimes.com. Front and center is an article about teenage refugees in American high schools. Everybody here ought to go over and read it NOW. Because it is Flight 93 personified: when Hillary gets finished with the job Obama started, this country will be dead. Finished. Gone. Unrecognizable. And then comes family reunification.

        gothamette

        September 10, 2016 at 8:48 am

      • Great comments. As I get more familiar with this site I see some of you in a new light and I’m happy that at my old age I’m still learning.

        vdorta

        September 10, 2016 at 2:40 pm

      • The Alt right tells right leaning Jews to move to Israel.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 11:15 pm

      • Which is extremely obnoxious, maybe they should move back to wherever their ancestors moved here from too.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 7:48 am

      • Whites built America, Jews did not. One of the reasons why anti-semites are the way they are, is because Jews are parasitic, where they reap the fruits and labor sowed by Whites.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 10:08 am

      • Jews ARE white. Maybe you mean gentile whites built America, but specifically it was English colonists who built America, so I don’t see that a gentile white German-American has any more claim to this than a Jewish white German-American. And there were Jews among the very earliest settlers. George Washington himself wrote a letter to the Jewish congregation in Newport Rhode Island.

        Jewish-American Jonas Salk invented the polio vaccine, so without this Jewish contribution to real value, about 30,000 gentiles would have kept dying from polio each year in the United States alone.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 10:16 am

      • Most of the early Jewish settlers in America were not Ashkenazi, but Spanish Jews. And they were different based on their history and varied occupations. Sephardic Jews from Spain were more naturally inclined to engage in “hands on work” than Askhenazim.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 10:54 am

    • After SJWs started targeting Moldbug and it looked like they might manage to put a dent in his business interests, he wrote this:

      I am not an “outspoken advocate for slavery,” a racist, a sexist or a fascist. (On 4chan I’m sometimes known as “Moldberg,” and depicted with a photoshopped Jew-nose.)

      He also made certain to mention a Jewish grandfather.

      Spot the problem?

      Moldbug obviously thinks being part Jewish is an escape hatch from “real world” consequences of having voiced politically incorrect thought.

      But in a non-mainstream movement that has powerful and nasty opponents, allies better have “skin in the game”. If dropping his grandfather’s Jewishness looks like an escape hatch to Moldbug, then logically the same fact discounts him as an ally.

      Titus

      September 10, 2016 at 9:08 am

      • Moldbug was just defending himself in the language that SJW types understand, nothing sinister there. Alt-righters ought to be happy about Moldbug giving SJWs some cognitive dissonance instead of hating him because he mentioned that he was Jewish.

        Even Hitler, the greatest racist in history, allowed Japanese to join his tent.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 12:01 pm

      • A poor analogy.

        Jews were and are still seen as parasitic, not capable of joining other nations with self sufficiency. The orderly Japanese are quite Aryan in nature for an East Asian nation. They are also very nationalistic and don’t want foreigners in their country. Moreover, Japan was able to industrialize without any foreign intervention, which led them to bomb Pearl Harbor. Hitler saw them with admiration.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 9:19 pm

      • Israeli Jews are also very nationalistic and in fact very much like the Japanese except that Japan has the fortune of being an island nation while Israel is surrounded by Muslims who hate them.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 10:46 pm

      • Also, many racially conscious White gentiles dislike Jews for one very strong reason: They are seen as untrustworthy and self serving. Jews could never join the ranks of WNs, simply because of their rootless origins, and their long unpleasant legacy with Europeans.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 9:26 pm

      • “Even Hitler, the greatest racist in history, allowed Japanese to join his tent.”

        Hitler let Arabs join his tent, despite them being Semites.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 9:41 pm

      • Hitler let Arabs join his tent, despite them being Semites.

        WNs in America are more willing to identify a Lebanese Arab or an Armenian as a comrade, than any right leaning Jew.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 11:18 pm

      • Jews are actually NOT racially the same as Arabs, Arabs come from the southern Arabian peninsula, while Jews’ Middle Eastern genes share similarity with Anatolians and Kurds, although Jews from Europe are mostly European.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 7:50 am

      • Again, Jews have a rootless legacy, and they’re also non-Christian.

        JS

        September 10, 2016 at 11:19 pm

      • That’s because Christians wouldn’t let them take root. Blaming Jews for past discrimination by Christians is despicable.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 7:51 am

      • JS –

        No foreign intervention spurring Japan’s industrialization? Have you heard of Commodore Perry and gunboat diplomacy?

        nebbish

        September 11, 2016 at 12:35 am

      • Nebbish — How much intervention did Americans have on the Japanese, pre-WWII, in order for them to industrialize? It was pretty quick and efficient. Other groups of people would have had constant supervision from Westerners with a lot of foreign aid. Hitler was amazed how the Japanese were able to do it.

        JS

        September 11, 2016 at 10:15 am

      • Japanese have higher IQ than gentile white Europeans.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 10:28 am

      • Lion, Christians didn’t create Jews’ rootlessness. The Roman Empire basically caused the dissipation of Israel before it became Christian. And it was Muslims who built a mosque on the temple mount.

        Hermes

        September 11, 2016 at 12:25 pm

    • I hate to say this because I’m a huge fan of his, but I wonder whether the alt-right’s radical turn is to some extent Sailer’s fault. He was mostly on his own in the HBD blogosphere for a while, and even as others joined in he remained the most popular and best of the group. But he never moved beyond his original m.o. of hanging out at home and writing blog posts. He’s had virtually no media presence at all apart from his writing in his blog and several obscure outlets. I know of only a couple of video/audio clips of him speaking in the 15+ years he’s been doing this. He’s not the most charismatic speaker but he’s not bad.

      It turns out that simply “noticing” things isn’t enough, ultimately. I remember some of his commenters pushing him to start his own site, attract and vet additional writers, police the dialogue, and try to go mainstream. Certainly a lot of influential people already read him, and his Citizenism would be popular with a broad swath of the country- more so than white nationalism, fascism and intense antisemitism.

      But nature abhors a vacuum, and in the absence of leadership other people tried to assert themselves and impose their wills on the Dark Enlightenment movement. Richard Spencer has been the most successful at that, and Jared Taylor seems to have raised his profile somewhat as well. When the meme brigades joined in it was off to the races, and now I think the alt-right has too much momentum to be redirected.

      On the other hand I’m not totally convinced of this analysis. Maybe HBD undermines the mainstream narrative so much that a more radical political movement was inevitable. But the moderate approach would have been worth a shot.

      Anon1

      September 10, 2016 at 10:57 am

      • Trumpism is a mainstream alternative to antisemitic alt-rightism.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 12:03 pm

      • I don’t know if you can really blame Sailer for not being a more effective advocate for citizenism. He’s one guy with a blog, and as he’s alluded to himself a few times, he’s not the most charismatic guy in the world.

        I think the thing is, and this is all IMHO, the idea of any HBD is so effectively demonized as racist only real racists (in the ‘I-hate-black people’ sense) dare to advocate it anymore.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 2:14 pm

      • He’s had virtually no media presence at all apart from his writing in his blog and several obscure outlets.

        Sailer is quite mild, but he is petty and does play footsie with antisemites for fundraising purposes.

        Now, that said, whatever Sailer’s strengths and failings may be, I don’t think he can be blamed at all for the level of cretinism that’s soon going to turn the altright into the dumber, twitter wing of VNN.

        Unlike the American altright, Farage, Marine Le Pen, Italy’s Northern League, AfD, Geert Wilders, and the Scandinavian nationalist parties are not sending their movements into a nosedive into the ocean.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 10, 2016 at 6:11 pm

      • I don’t know if it’s fair to blame Sailer. But he does regularly write cagey and passive-aggressive stuff about Jews and Israel, making insinuations without being very overt and explicit. The anti-Semitic types, and impressionable people who immerse themselves in the anti-Semitic milieu online, then interpret these writings by Sailer in a way that reinforces their already biased views or the anti-Semitic messages they get elsewhere online. He also tries to get along with everybody, and doesn’t want to alienate anyone else on the right or in his audience, so he doesn’t like to criticize them. I think he also assumes that everyone must b e mild mannered and level headed like he is, and that there couldn’t possibly be fanatical obsessives who seriously take what he writes in the worst possible way.

        Tom

        September 10, 2016 at 10:10 pm

    • If the Pepe posting neo-nazis take over the whole of the alt-right, the movement is finished.

      I’m ready to label the alt-right dead. There are some pockets of intelligence remaining from the time in HBD before Richie Spencer wrote his silly alt right manifesto. But that will be overwhelmed in a relatively short period by the Himmler-wannabee morons.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      September 10, 2016 at 11:28 am

    • Assuming he was the same guy as the current Heartiste, Roissy was new and original around a decade ago, back when the whole PUA thing wasn’t really a thing yet. But he blogged quite a lot, and ran out of new material, and the PUA thing took and proliferated on many other blogs, sites, and forums, and became saturated. His audience was mainly younger guys who were also into the right wing blogosphere, and he was a middle aged guy running out of material. As the alt-right stuff became more popular among his audience, he basically shifted to become an alt-right blogger full time, which gave him new material. Sort of like an aging rockstar who does collaborations with younger musicians and adopts a new style in order to stay relevant and cool with the young kids.

      Vox Day is basically the same deal. He’s another aging middle aged guy who makes his living selling shitty independently published fantasy books and pseudo-intellectual treatises to a niche audience of younger guys he cultivates online through his blog. He was a libertarian or something, but then jumped on the alt-right bandwagon as he saw it become more popular among the audience of younger guys that he markets his bad writing to.

      Tom

      September 10, 2016 at 10:45 pm

  17. It’s amusing to see members here struggle to find acceptance on the Alt-Right. Obviously they have no trouble discriminating on the basis of race — being “HBD aware” n’ all — but they don’t want Jews lumped in with all of those genuinely bad people — the Blacks, Hispanics, non-Jewish Middle Easterners, smart-but-anti-creative Asians. After all, many of you *are* Jews and you’re perfectly capable of blending in. Your noses look nothing like the caricatures, and besides, in online forums the White Power folks would never know you were Jewish if not for your screen-name.

    You’d think with all of this that a light would turn on.

    Vince

    September 9, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    • Vast majority of stormfronters wouldn’t know a Jew if they saw one in real life.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 10, 2016 at 10:47 am

      • You’re not responding to his main point which is that you criticize the altright for their antisemitic arguments but then agree with them when they use the same basic logic against blacks and hispanics.

        Magnavox

        September 11, 2016 at 10:57 am

      • Can you elaborate on this in a post sometime? Not on the phenotype identification skills of stormfronters but rather on the phenotype identification skills of Jews identifying Jews? Do you believe Jews are highly capable of identifying other Jews? If so, what are the phenotype cues being used that are otherwise unavailable to gentiles?

        I know this seems an odd question, but repeatedly in my life (at least seven times) I’ve been misidentified as Jewish by Jewish people, or at least pointedly interrogated whether I was Jewish with, at times, confusion when I said no. I don’t, however, imagine myself to possess some sort of Jewish phenotype, whatever that may be. I often imagine I can spot a Jewish phenotype, and in women I gravitate towards it, Lizzy Caplan, Shoshana Lonstein, etc. but you’ve suggested a couple of times this isn’t a skill gentiles possess.

        Curle

        September 11, 2016 at 12:40 pm

      • Some Jews have a Jewish sort of look, most don’t.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 9:30 pm

    • You raise a really good point–the whole ‘discriminate against everyone except me’ thing doesn’t hold water outside a small group. (I suspect most of this bunch has no problem with Asians, BTW; Lion even pondered whether dorky white guys should lay off their women to give the guys a chance to find girlfriends.)

      Here’s the thing, though. What do you think the effects of importing large amounts of foreigners, faster than the rate of assimilation, will be? We’re better at the assimilation thing than Europe. We can assimilate Hispanics. They practice a variety of Christianity that’s already the largest denomination in the USA and speak a Romance language. But nobody’s even trying because assimilation is evil.

      Do you have to support affirmative action, which after all is a form of racial discrimination? What’s going to happen to white people when we become a minority? What if all the HBD stuff is true and we can’t close racial gaps without genetic engineering, which means all these divisions are going to fester endlessly?

      Just because almost everyone asking them on the Internet is a Nazi/WN/alt-righter doesn’t mean the questions go away.

      SFG

      September 10, 2016 at 11:28 am

  18. Jesus: You know who really hates the Jews — it is the community organizing left.
    To the left, the Jews are white trash that they want taken out of their party–STAT.
    It is really beginning to show, especially on campuses.
    Barack is smart enough to know the left needs the Jews for one more election. After that, the left wiill DISINVEST from Jews/Israel lox stock and bagels.
    As Pat Buchanan showed in Florida a few of them can be snagged by the right but most will probably take their disinfranchisement in stunned disbelief.
    If he is still alive, Woody Allen could probably make a good movie about it.

    KnoMad

    September 10, 2016 at 2:41 am

    • Everyone hates the Jews. The left hates the Jews. The alt-right hates the Jews. And they say Jews are “paranoid.” It’s not paranoia if it’s true.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 10, 2016 at 11:25 am

      • But evangelical Christians really do love Jews, but Jews are convinced they hate them and want to throw them into ovens.

        Hermes

        September 10, 2016 at 11:56 am

      • Not all Jews think that, but there are valid historical reasons for why Jews fear Christianity.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 12:05 pm

      • Would you believe I agree with you both? Hermes is right. The evangelical Christians do not want to kill Jews. They want to convert them, though (to save them from eternal hellfire)…which means the end of the Jewish race/people/etc.. This is one of the reasons Lion is right.

        The rest is a long nasty history including the Crusades and the Inquisition which most evangelicals have no memory of and quite frankly shouldn’t be blamed for as, obviously, they weren’t there.

        SFG

        September 10, 2016 at 2:47 pm

      • But evangelical Christians really do love Jews, but Jews are convinced they hate them and want to throw them into ovens.

        Gentile liberals have similar views of Evangelical Christians. There is a fear of antisemitic peasants, but it’s also due to the general hatred of Evangelicalism shared by all white liberals. The UK Guardian is largely gentile, but it has a lower opinion of Evangelicals the NY Times.

        Ironically, Jews get along very well with ethnic white Catholics in the Northeast despite the fact Protestant nations have historically been more tolerant of Jews than Catholic nations.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 10, 2016 at 6:15 pm

      • “But evangelical Christians really do love Jews, but Jews are convinced they hate them and want to throw them into ovens.”

        That’s not Jews’ problem with Evangelicals, or with Christianity in general. Their problem is that Christianity is so attractive. Evangelicals are friendly and nice. Christian holidays involve feasting instead of fasting, and Christian churches provide fellowship and community. And Christmas is a wonderful winter holiday.

        Secular Jews resent how attractive Christianity is, because they fear being tempted to assimilate. They grew up hearing assimilation is as bad as the Holocaust. Being an atheist or an agnostic isn’t seen as betraying bubbe, but celebrating Christmas is.

        David Pinsen

        September 10, 2016 at 9:50 pm

      • This is 100% correct.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 10, 2016 at 10:51 pm

      • SFG,

        They want to convert them, though (to save them from eternal hellfire)…which means the end of the Jewish race/people/etc.. This is one of the reasons Lion is right.

        Not quite. There is a particular strain of evangelical theology which says that Jews still have their own covenant with God and can be saved by practicing Judaism. Also, in my personal experience, even evangelicals who would shy away from that, and would say if pressed that Jews should convert, at the same time have this view of Jews as these numinous, divine beings walking among us, almost like angels or something, because they’re God’s Chosen People.

        TUJ,

        Ironically, Jews get along very well with ethnic white Catholics in the Northeast

        Wasn’t there some comedian who joked about the phenomenon of Jewish men marrying Catholic women, saying it was because Jewish guys wanted girls who were as unlike their mothers as possible?

        Hermes

        September 11, 2016 at 1:41 am

      • Wasn’t there some comedian who joked about the phenomenon of Jewish men marrying Catholic women, saying it was because Jewish guys wanted girls who were as unlike their mothers as possible?

        There’s some truth to that. But Italian American women are like Jewish women personality-wise, but better looking and they can cook.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 11, 2016 at 2:36 pm

      • “…And Christmas is a wonderful winter holiday.”

        That is the doggone truth. I’m not religious, but in no way would I ever want to give up Christmas or the Christmas season. Even as an agnostic I totally enjoy the Christmas spirit and customs associated with the holidays. Chinese food on Christmas day can’t compete I’m afraid.

        Mike Street Station

        September 11, 2016 at 2:44 pm

  19. > What I wasn’t expecting was almost nobody saying ‘Yeah, we could use more like you’. Usually you get a few dissenters.

    I do actually respect people who can rise above their own in-group affiliations to stand up in favor of what they think is right — for example women who speak up against feminism, black Trump supporters or alt-right commenters, and Jewish people who participate in the alt-right even though it is associated with anti-semitism. I just don’t go out of my way to praise them as it would seem awkward.

    shiva1008

    September 10, 2016 at 3:01 am

  20. The HuffPo tracker of Hillary-Trump head to head polls from polls released this week has Hil up by an average of 1.8. At this time in 2012 I believe that Romney was down by about a point, although admittedly he was running against a much, much, stronger candidate.

    The rolling average has Crooked Hillary up by 5 but I don’t take that too seriously. The goal has to be Trump being ahead in the weekly polling average 2 weeks from today, which will be an average of polls taken mostly before the debate.

    It would be great if Trump could win the debate against Hillary, although his performance in this weeks town hall quasi debate doesn’t inspire much confidence, but as long as he continues to present himself as palatable to cucked out, Romney supporting suburban whites, he basically wins by default.

    We need 55% of college educated whites at an absolute minimum. Right now we are on track to win 50% of them at best.

    Otis the Sweaty

    September 10, 2016 at 4:34 am

  21. ”if the alt-right includes more than just a bunch of Jew-hating Stormfront types.” Yes, the KKK, 1488 types get so upset at the alt-right precisely because it is NOT the old Stormfront crap. They can take their ‘Heil Hitler’s’ and go fuck themselves, the rest of us aren’t living in the 1940’s.

    C H INGOLDBY

    September 10, 2016 at 5:03 am

  22. I guess I’m still naive a my age, which may or may not be a good thing. I am not a Jew and don’t really know anyone who is, but don’t have any anti-Jewish feelings of which I’m aware. I also don’t know any member of the Stormfront group. The only Jewish person I ever worked with was a long time ago(Maybe 45 years ago) was an incredibly attractive mature woman who shared office space with me. While she couldn’t openly share Christmas with me she did encourage me to bring in a small tree and she helped decorate it.

    Thus I’m with the lion here, I think there is a lot of paranoia running amuck here by its Jewish commenters.
    Now I don’t live in NY either so perhaps there are more reasons to be concerned that I am aware.

    Goalkeeper

    September 10, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    • Eh, I don’t think the USA is all that antisemitic overall. Even the ADL, which probably fluffs the numbers a bit to get more money, only claims 10% of Americans are antisemitic, and that includes statements like ‘Jews talk too much about the Holocaust’ (which *I* believe…come on guys plenty of other groups got genocided too, they don’t make a new movie about it every year). Hang out on far-right websites and you get a different story. But you’re likely to get much more electoral mileage out of anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, or anti-black prejudice than antisemitism.

      SFG

      September 10, 2016 at 4:42 pm

    • Get any play?

      Vincent

      September 10, 2016 at 4:55 pm

  23. The frustration is real.

    Whether the “alt-right” (like the “Tea Party”) survives as an idea is unimportant. A huge number of Americans are frustrated. We are lucky that a good guy like Trump came along when he did and recognized the frustration. He seems to feel it himself.

    If Trump can’t turn things around, the frustration will only grow. As we know from the twentieth century, bad things happen when the wrong kind of people tap into mass dissatisfaction. Given our heterogenous population, there is an additional danger: if someone taps into the anger of just one sub-population, it can wreak havoc on everyone.

    SQ

    September 10, 2016 at 2:29 pm

  24. The self-proclaimed leader and inventor of the term “alt-right” held a press conference yesterday in DC where he said that the alt-right is based on anti-Semitism.

    “Alt-Right Leaders: We Aren’t Racist, We Just Hate Jews”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/09/alt-right-leaders-we-aren-t-racist-we-just-hate-jews.html

    Bad news, Jews: You don’t get to be part of Richard Spencer’s white ethno-state.

    In a windowless room in a swanky hotel half a block from the White House on Friday afternoon, three of the most visible leaders of the alt-right movement held a two-hour press conference to discuss their affection for Donald Trump and their hopes for a white homeland. The white supremacist alt-right movement has grown over the last eight years or so, incubated in racist forums like StormFront and meme-loving corners of the internet like 4chan and 8chan. Its members generally share a disdain for political correctness, feminism, zionism, Jews in general, immigration (especially Hispanic and Muslim immigration), and anyone who criticizes them for holding these views.

    —-

    The alt-right needs to aspire to something, even if that dream won’t come true in his lifetime—and that means they should aim to build an ethno-state for just whites. And Spencer made it clear that white-only means Jews aren’t invited. They have their own identity, and it isn’t white-slash-European, and that’s that.

    “Jews are Jews,” he said.

    He added that his whites-only utopia would still have a good relationship with Israel.

    Tom

    September 10, 2016 at 3:00 pm

  25. The Undiscovered Jew

    September 10, 2016 at 6:34 pm

  26. The Undiscovered Jew

    September 10, 2016 at 9:46 pm

  27. The Stormfronters obviously share the same or similar views to the alt-right, and have attached themselves to it, but I don’t think they’re the same exact crowd as the alt-right.

    Stormfront has been around for like 20 years and is ancient in terms of internet age. The Stormfronters and KKK types are older and have been around forever and were active in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

    The alt-right is much younger and developed mainly on the “chan” sites and Twitter.

    Tom

    September 10, 2016 at 10:20 pm

    • Like I said above, Stormfronters are classic Nazis as Nazism evolved post WW2. They don’t really have a problem with Jews, per se, just with Israel. They also love the Palestinians and Iran. Stormfronters are just dumber, more radical, Paleocons.

      The nazi section of the alt-right (and that’s all it is, a section, albeit one that dominates social media) hate everybody, even if they focus most the overwhelming majority of their vitriol at the Jews. The 4chan Nazis are fucking insane.

      Otis the Sweaty

      September 11, 2016 at 2:42 am

  28. I am somewhat bemused that the blog post refers to an article that does not mention Jews or anti-Semitism, and this somehow triggers 134 comments about the alt right and anti-Semitism.

    Tarl

    September 10, 2016 at 10:22 pm

    • Yes, certain anti-Semitic commenters try to turn everything into being about The Jews.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 10, 2016 at 10:58 pm

      • If there were any anti semitic comments you blocked them. The comments about jews on this page are all philosemitic.

        Magnavox

        September 11, 2016 at 12:43 am

  29. Wake up and smell the turd (that had been fermenting in someone’s colon for four days before it was expelled in all its glory) on your clean new bed sheets. All these people you are cozying up to–whether you want to call them “realists”, “alt-rightists”, HBDers, whatever–are your mortal enemies and would gladly kill you the moment they had the power to do so.

    It is sad that only Gothamette seems to have realized this. Lion, I’m sure you’re a nice person, and I am sure we would get along in real life well, but by continuing to bandwagon all these people who hate your guts, you have proven that you are a self-hating Jew. The people who until now, and perhaps even still, you considered your heroes (Sailer, Roissy, Taylor, Spencer, et cetera, and in my opinion Trump himself given a lot of his comments and insinuations) would all put you in an oven if it were legal to do so. Because, as many of you have noted, the sewer they are cultivating is infecting more and more mainstream Western thought, we can’t at all rule out that someday that will be the case (again).

    Guess what; this election cycle, we *finally* had a principled, constitutionalist historical conservative that stood for closed borders, national sovereignty, state’s rights–AND was and is a genuine friend of Zionism and Jewry in general to boot. All of you so-called strong, macho “conservatives” and “nationalists” shit all over him (and I am talking Jews, Catholics, evangelicals, secularists, fill-in-the-blank) and made sure he will never have a home in the GOP again. Thanks to people with your thinking, we have the weakest clown of a joke possible running against that treasonous murdering lesbian that should be a cakewalk to defeat. That’s all on YOU and nobody else.

    I’m sorry that the truth hurts.

    Martin L.

    September 11, 2016 at 2:38 am

    • That’s what I’ve come to conclude, though I quibble a little with the specifics of your list (Trump is more interested in making money than anything else and is more likely using these people, Taylor lacks that *particular* prejudice, Sailer’s too lukewarm to be interested in ovens). You can toss in Anglin and the Right Stuff guys though.

      I don’t know if it’s gotten any farther as far as Western thought goes. The whole Dark Enlightenment/neoreaction movement, yes, though that was more of a tiny sliver to begin with.

      As for Cruz…he was a notorious opportunist and all of Congress hated his guts from what I remember.

      I don’t think there will be another Holocaust, but we might all have to vote Democrat and cozy up to the SJWs for a generation. Ugh.

      SFG

      September 11, 2016 at 9:46 am

      • I’ve never gotten into Sailer, and never understood his popularity with paleos/alt-righters. Your calling him “lukewarm” reminded me of the reason for this. When I’ve tried to read him, he’s reminded me of what Larry Auster criticized National Review for when he let his subscription lapse (the same reason I stopped reading that magazine): the laid-back, detached, disinterested quality of the writing. It’s as though he sees himself as above the fray, sitting on a high perch somewhere, yawning, bored, looking at the peons below and making half-hearted comments about their actions as if they don’t affect him. You’d expect someone who believes what he claims to believe to see himself in the midst of a civilizational crisis, and to be writing fiery polemics instead of this laconic, superficially impartial commentary.

        Hermes

        September 11, 2016 at 12:30 pm

      • Steve was once a real journalist and he was trained to write news articles in a detached impartial manner.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 11, 2016 at 12:33 pm

      • Marty, thank you. I really had a hard time back a few months calling a spade a spade.

        A few quibbles.

        One, I don’t think Trump is at all anti-Semitic. I think he’s using the alt-right, and will throw them under the bus when opportune. Would he really throw his own grandkids into an oven?( LOL, David Frum noted that Trump had more Jewish grandkids than Bernie….)

        Two, you are being a little hard on Lion. I don’t think he is self-hating, although I do think he overstates the existence of true anti-Semitism in the US. The US is a Protestant mercantile society, and simply does not have medieval Catholic anti-Semitism in its DNA.

        gothamette

        September 12, 2016 at 11:09 am

      • Effeminate Protestant Western nations, especially the Anglo Prole Sphere, are the most prone to anti-semitism, because of their vacilltating stance on Jews.

        Machiavelli’s famous saying: that man is either to be loved or destroyed.

        JS

        September 12, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    • Yeah, I don’t think that’s what Gothamette has realized.

      IHTG

      September 11, 2016 at 9:57 am

      • What Gothamette realized is that the alt right is a fetid swamp of Jew-haters, all of ’em. Gothamette never said Trump was an anti-Semite, or part of the alt-right.

        gothamette

        September 12, 2016 at 11:11 am

    • Also, there are HBD bloggers such as JayMan and Razib Khan who are not white nationalists. Still, you are broadly correct, I think.

      SFG

      September 11, 2016 at 10:06 am

    • Give me a break. Ann Coulter’s right. We’re electing a President of the United States, not the Prime Minister of Israel.

      Andrew E.

      September 11, 2016 at 7:17 pm

      • Agreed, but you can’t blame these guys for not wanting to wind up in an oven (as Anglin and his friends actually seem to want).

        SFG

        September 11, 2016 at 10:37 pm

  30. why did you take a swipe at steve sailer? Long-winded prose is unreadable. Steve Yegge and moldbug, whom you mentioned, are two examples which come to my mind.

    josh

    September 11, 2016 at 4:56 am

    • So really I COMPLIMENTED Steve by pointing out that his prose is very legible.

      The article just isn’t his writing style. Merely an observation.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      September 11, 2016 at 7:58 am

  31. Umm, something just happened to Hillary.

    IHTG

    September 11, 2016 at 10:20 am

  32. I think what needs to be understood is this: there are no enemies to the right, regardless of their flaws. If you are more concerned about the minority collective of anti-semites you see within the alt-right than you are with the problems that the alt-right is trying to solve, then maybe you need to evaluate why you are here. Similarly, Jewish alt-righters should also be respected because, again, there are no enemies to the right. Jews are migrating to the alt-right because they feel the same profound threat that the other alt-righters do and they have no network on which to fall back.

    How many alt-right Jews have tried to address the problems facing the country to their fellow Jews, only to be rebuffed with a mix of misunderstandings, indifference or smug security? This is probably an even bigger betrayal because Jews do not buy into liberal platitudes when their own personal safety is at stake. Yet, alt-right Jews are left out in the cold to deal with these problems on their own, now that other Jews are ensconced or insulated from the problems observed. Pretty much cast out from their herd, they are migrating to other herds for safety. it would be a good idea for alt-righters to not immediately assume some leftist infiltration just because Jews show up.

    At the same time, Jewish alt-righters need to realize that maybe being overly-sensitive to abstract anti-semitism really is a way to go either. After all, your fellow Jews aren’t helping you solve your problems. Remember, also, that anti-semitic tweets may not necessarily be created by alt-righters, but by their enemies to discredit them. You guys simply have to decide what is important.

    map

    September 11, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    • ‘No enemies to the right’ is quite questionable. The Left had to distance themselves from Communists to get anywhere in the Cold War era.

      Also, FWIW, the earliest historical quote I can find for ‘no enemies to the left’ is Kerensky of the Mensheviks. It’s funny how many people on the right keep quoting this bit–remember what happened to *them*?

      SFG

      September 11, 2016 at 10:34 pm

    • I think what needs to be understood is this: there are no enemies to the right, regardless of their flaws.

      Agreed, purging people seen as too radical is what got us into this mess.

      Otis the Sweaty

      September 11, 2016 at 11:17 pm

    • ‘No enemies to the right’

      The antisemites also treated far right Jews like Auster and Michael Hart as enemies.

      I’m going to disagree with Otis.

      Jews should break off from the altright and purge antisemites and paleocons from a nationalist movement.

      With our superior talent there’s no need for us to tolerate antisemites while we takeover the far right movement.

      Whether the movement is called altright or not doesn’t matter.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      September 12, 2016 at 8:30 pm

      • I’m in favor of a nationalist movement without antisemites.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        September 12, 2016 at 9:20 pm

      • I’m in favor of a nationalist movement without antisemites.

        Hamilton was the first American nationalist.

        We Hamiltonians will take as many Jews onboard as possible:

        https://pragmaticallydistributed.wordpress.com/2016/09/02/in-praise-of-caesar/

        The policy of Hamiltonians towards Jews is, naturally and simply, that of Hamilton. The high opinion he held of Jews in his youth was maintained for his entire life. The treatment of Jews by his successors from Clay, Lincoln, and onwards was not substantially differently from that of other whites. Hamiltonian nationalists will follow their example and include as many Jews as possible; generally support Jewish interests, which normally overlap closely with the interests of the West, wherever feasible and reasonable; and exclude those who exclude Jews.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        September 13, 2016 at 9:52 pm

  33. I live near DC and know many of the alt-right types. You would be surprised at how many Jews are at some of the get togethers. Of course, I am old enough to remember the alt-right before there was an alt-right. Some of the people included Michael Levin, Paul Gottfried, Larry Auster and Robert Weissberg. The fact is, Jews will always be represented in dissident movements. It takes a degree of intelligence and chutzpah to speak out against societal taboos. Since many Jews have these traits it is no surprise that some feel at home in the alt right.

    Bernie

    September 11, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    • I think it was less so back then when it was just heretical conservative guys going for cocktails and so on. It’s changed. I don’t think Lion and Co. should stop blogging, as moderate versions of extreme ideologies are always good to have around as they can adapt some of the good ideas into practical forms, but maybe pick a new name.

      SFG

      September 11, 2016 at 10:35 pm

    • I just read that Spencer moved his grandiosely named National Policy Institute from Montana to insidecthe Beltway. What a joke.

      gothamette

      September 12, 2016 at 8:59 pm


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