Lion of the Blogosphere

More post debate thoughts

with 31 comments

You know Pence did really well when the mainstream media is trying to spin it as “Pence hurt Trump by doing so well he made Trump look unqualified by comparison.”

However, it’s pretty clear from watching Pence debate that he doesn’t get Trumpism at all. Pence is the type of anti-tax anti-abortion Truecon who would never have a chance running for president against Democrats and whom Republican primary voters rejected in favor of Trumpism.

Besides spending a lot of time talking about taxes and regulation, Pence foolishly brought up the abortion issue and spent a lot of time talking about it when the question wasn’t even about abortion, and Kaine never mentioned it. The vast majority of undecided white voters are not moved by this issue, and bringing it up unnecessarily will lose more votes than it wins. The true believers are already voting for Trump because of whom Hillary would appoint to the Supreme Court. Doesn’t Pence realize that? I also noticed the same thing at the convention. Trump and his core inner circle (his children, Giuliani, Newt and Christie) knew they were supposed to not talk about abortion in their speeches, but Pence didn’t get that message.

Pence stood up for Trump’s anti-immigration platform, but only in a lukewarm manner. Under different circumstances (for example Trump never ran and Pence was picked for VP by Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush) one can imagine Pence talking in favor of immigration “reform” which even Pence knows is a codeword for amnesty.

But if you are worried about Pence as VP, don’t worry because VPs have no duties besides attending funerals and breaking ties in the Senate. If Trump wins, it will be a huge mandate for Trumpism and repudiation of Republican anti-tax anti-abortion politics as usual.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

October 5, 2016 at 9:07 pm

Posted in Politics

31 Responses

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  1. One of the key tenets of Trumpism along with immigration, trade and foreign wars is the need to massively gut the administrative state (ie. big tax and regulatory cuts) and make the government work as intended.

    Andrew E.

    October 5, 2016 at 9:44 pm

  2. Pence is sort of a dullard. He’s not book smart or street smart, unlike Newt, Giuliani, and Christie. That’s why he had trouble staying on message and went back to his old talking points. He probably ate at Applebee’s afterwards.


    October 5, 2016 at 9:49 pm

  3. ” If Trump wins, it will be a huge mandate for Trumpism…”

    eh? As you correctly point out Pence wasnt running on Trumpism. And he won his debate. Trump lost his. Ergo Trumpism isnt popular, even in its purest form.

    What Trump needs to do (btw, is he ever planning on opening campaign offices in Florida?) is as commercials run little vignettes of what would happen if he was elected. Forcing Obama to be super-awkward at the Inauguration. The dismay of newspaper editorialists everywhere. How pissed off stupid celebrities will be.

    There are very few upsides to a Trump presidency- he needs to help people visualize how satisfying they would be.

    Lion of the Turambar

    October 5, 2016 at 10:09 pm

    • ” Trump lost his. Ergo Trumpism isnt popular, even in its purest form”

      Trumpism is extremely popular you TruCon scum. Polls showed that the overwhelming majority of GOP voters wanted a wall, mass deportations and a Muslim ban. Trump is much less popular than Trumpism.

      Pence is a TruCon idiot. Based on the way the polls look right now, Trump is probably going to win the election. After our victory we will begin a war of total extermination against the TruCon enemy. RedState and TheRightScoop will be shut down, Glenn Beck, Ercuck Ercuckson and others of their ilk will be jailed. TruCons will be banned from running for office.

      If somehow Trump loses, then we will just finish you off in 2020 with either Abbott, Thiel or maybe even Trump again.

      Otis the Sweaty

      October 5, 2016 at 10:31 pm

      • Otis is like one of those drug sniffing dogs, he can sniff out a TruCon anywhere.

        I thought Lion of the Turambar was a Hilbot but now I think Otis is correct.


        October 6, 2016 at 4:20 am

      • Lion of the Turambar (he used to just use Turambar as his handle) has been commenting on lion and the predecessor blog[s] since probably the mid 2000s. He is definately prime material to be a TruCon given his age and the fact he has never been a commentator at the sister blogs Roissy (Heartiste) or Mangan’s. The real question is where is Sheila Tone (Sheila) and Peter (Iron Rails Iron Weight) of glorious natural pelt (GNP) notoriety.

        I don’t truly understand what fuels the TruCon but that is not necessary, only the kind of political bullet that takes them down. The trucon is a strange mix of conservadad qualities on liberal SJW steroids making the object occupying their anal sphincter particularly dilated.



        October 6, 2016 at 9:59 pm

    • How many dead middle eastern muslims are enough for you?

      Andrew E.

      October 5, 2016 at 11:02 pm

      • Is this a rhetorical question? Enough for what?

        Rogal Dorn

        October 5, 2016 at 11:56 pm

      • Evidently you care more about the lives of middle eastern Muslims than about the feelings of nice little oldish Italian ladies watering their windowsill-flowers in Bensonhurst, Andrew E. This is perverse. Heartless. UnAmerican.


        October 6, 2016 at 2:24 am

      • “nice little oldish Italian ladies watering their windowsill-flowers in Bensonhurst,”

        Garr, thank you for caring about my feelings, but this image you’re creating here reflects the kind of elderly Italian woman you see in the spaghetti commercials. I’m not exactly ready for a rocking chair just yet. I feel like I need to get my weight and body back in shape and take a cheesecake photo to prove that I don’t fit this picture you’re’ creating!……..I guess I should thank you for giving me an incentive for self-improvement.


        October 6, 2016 at 8:33 pm

  4. Don’t forget the YUGE mistake to not hammer Pence on foreign policy -not being in the name-calling mood for David Duke, but calling Putin “small” and strongly recommending the standard Russophobic anti-Assad neocon regime change line on Syria, even more so than Kaine, who could do nothing but nod his head.

    Clearly, Pence hasn’t learned a thing since 2003, and especially not since May 3, 2016.


    October 5, 2016 at 11:09 pm

    • Pence is clearly sub-optimal from a Trumpism point of view. But his main purpose last night was to prevent the already planned post-debate media narrative of Kaine driving a wedge between Pence and Trump, a la Kelly Ayotte. Pence gave them no daylight so it was mission accomplished.

      Andrew E.

      October 6, 2016 at 12:04 am

      • How does it look when the VP pick and the candidate clearly fundamentally disagree on even the most basic course of US foreign policy?


        October 6, 2016 at 1:08 am

  5. One of the following 7 sentences is not true: Pence secured Ohio for Trump, I think. Still think Trump will lose because he thinks he is above the nitty gritty of the ground game – just like MacArthur in the Philippines the day after Pearl Harbor (he held a “meeting” that was very important to him about big strategy and did not listen when someone knocked at the door begging him to order that all the planes on the runways be dispersed ASAP. The planes were not dispersed and were destroyed). If Pence, of all people, had lacked the balls to mention that he is pro-life the campaign would have been over. Believe me or not – maybe you think you have a better feel for the swing-state electorate that I do. Maybe you are right, it is not a question of morals, it is a question of accuracy. We live in the world we live in. Maybe I am wrong, but if I am wrong, who among those who disagrees with me really wants to be right? The question answers itself, if you think about it.

    howitzer daniel

    October 6, 2016 at 12:25 am

  6. I think that it will be good and needed, if Trump wins, to co-opt the TruCons. The way you do that is with Pence.

    TruCons might care too much about taxes, regulations and abortion, but they’re ultimately patriotic Americans. The GOPe in the 70s loathed Reagan, but they were brought to heel, and if anything, their successors idolize Reagan too much.

    I support Trumpism but I dislike Trump’s personality. In contrast, I like Pence personally, and it’s good he’s adopting Trumpism, if only to advance his career. Trump himself is going to mess up plenty, even if he does accomplish a lot. What we need is for nationalism, a respect for the masses, and a non-interventionist, interest-based foreign policy to take hold, and it’s only by converting patriotic Americans to those principles, which they currently believe in even if they don’t realize it.


    October 6, 2016 at 12:57 am

  7. I think you overstate the importance to voters of (future) Supreme Court nominations. That’s a factor, sure, but a background one. I think most Trump supporters see this election as more of a referendum on political correctness, on black lives matter, on being told what to think and how to vote by Hollywood millionaires. This fictionalized Trump speech at the WSJ sums it up perfectly; the author is avowedly anti-Trump, but he understands why Trump will win: (if you’re stuck behind the WSJ paywall, just type that URL into the search bar and you should get a readable version).

    Feeder Farmer

    October 6, 2016 at 3:00 am

  8. Would worry that they shoot trump and make him president.

    In their world a 90iq man taking orders is more optimal than a crazed psychopath who is sufferng from parkinsons.

    I really worry he is a plant.

    The Philosopher

    October 6, 2016 at 3:09 am

  9. Is Trump taking the weekend off to prep? His schedule is kinda empty until next week.


    October 6, 2016 at 4:42 am

  10. “Based on the way the polls look right now, Trump is probably going to win the election.”


    james n.s.w

    October 6, 2016 at 5:56 am

    • LAT, Rass and UPI all have Trump up. LAT by the same number since the debate, Rass by 2 fewer points and UPI by 3 more points. Gravis has it tied, up from 4 before the debate. SurveyMonkey has Trump losing to Hillary but only by 1 point more than pre-debate.

      Conclusion: the debate has not hurt Trump. I believe the Hillary bounce seen in the other polls is transient and will fade over the next several weeks, especially if Trump performs better in Sunday’s debate.

      I believe Trump will beat Crooked Hillary by 1 point.

      Otis the Sweaty

      October 6, 2016 at 12:52 pm

  11. i agree with otis though, i htink ‘trumpism’ has hte potential to be popular if it was delivered by somebody who wasnt necessarily trump.

    james n.s.w

    October 6, 2016 at 10:10 am

  12. Lion: do a post on Trumpism without Trump. I think Trump is going to win but if he loses, what are our options for 2020?

    Here is my list:
    1. Trump himself: He’ll be 74, same age Bernie Sanders is now. No reason he can’t run again if he wants.
    2. Peter Thiel: Gay billionaire. Libertarianish politics but smart enough to say what he needs to get elected.
    3. Greg Abbott: Governor of Texas. Polished politician who will unite all factions of the GOP coalition but is smart enough to play down the TruCon bullshit.
    4. Kurt Schilling: Alpha male, political outsider. Most of Trump’s good things with none of his bad things.

    Otis the Sweaty

    October 6, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    • It will be bad because the mainstream media will trumpet it as a repudiation of Trumpism, and everyone will go about believing it.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      October 6, 2016 at 3:05 pm

      • Not if he wins the popular vote but loses the electoral college. And not if the race is razor thin as it almost certainly will be.

        Otis the Sweaty

        October 6, 2016 at 4:28 pm

    • Thiel was born in Germany. Schilling is a punchline who in his post-baseball career is most famous for conning the taxpayers of Rhode Island out of $50 million, for which he narrowly escaped prosecution.


      October 7, 2016 at 5:35 am

  13. Journal of American greatness is back.


    October 6, 2016 at 4:06 pm

  14. We don’t really know what Pence thinks or how he even might naturally act. The Trump team gave him hours of debate coaching, told him what to say, etc., although he obviously has aptitude.

    Steven J.

    October 7, 2016 at 12:49 pm

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