Lion of the Blogosphere

Electors

with 61 comments

I seldom delete a post, but my last post was so bad, I sent it to the trash.

Article II Section 1 clause 2 of the Constitution reads:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The whole winner-take-all election by state thing is merely an extra-constitutional state-level custom, and individual states could change it if they wanted to.

However, there would be a huge public outcry if the people’s votes were taken away by the state legislature, so I think that any change is highly unlikely.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

November 14, 2016 at 1:32 pm

Posted in Politics

61 Responses

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  1. They could just award the electors to whoever wins the popular vote. But it would just make the state less powerful, and only Democrats would think about doing it.

    Hepp

    November 14, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    • Right. There’s already the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which aims to do just that. So far, 10 states+DC have signed on. It goes into effect only when states with a majority of electoral college votes have signed on. But the problem for their hopes & dreams is, Republicans have been so strong in the statehouses … even if there were public pressure for this, how would you ever get a Republican legislature in a red state to pass it? It cuts directly into their state’s their constituents’ power. Hard to picture. But there’s no way you can get to 270 electoral votes without at least getting a few purple states on board.

      Greg Pandatshang

      November 14, 2016 at 7:12 pm

      • It’s funny. We used to have a term for interstate compacts–i.e., voluntary agreements among the states to conduct certain affairs in a unified way. It was called the federal government.

        Hermes

        November 14, 2016 at 7:58 pm

      • The whole point of the electoral college was to give individual states autonomy and power so don’t act like this is somehow not in keeping with the spirit of the constitution.

        Magnavox

        November 14, 2016 at 8:39 pm

      • Magnavox, not sure whether you’re replying to Greg or me, but if it was me, my point was that the original view of the federal government was that it was the creation of the states and basically did the bidding of the states, taken collectively. Whereas the view today has been inverted; the states are mere administrative precincts of the federal government and any or all of them can be overruled by the federal government whenever it wants. It just struck me as odd that in order to do what they want, states have to form further Interstate Compacts in order to do an end-run around the original Interstate Compact, the Constitution, because the federal government has become so powerful.

        Hermes

        November 14, 2016 at 11:50 pm

    • The Electoral College privileges the black vote.

      Democrats are in denial again.

      The black vote is HIGHER than the national average in states like Florida, North Carolina, PA and Michigan.

      So removing the electoral college lowers the significance of the black vote.

      Rifleman

      November 15, 2016 at 7:54 am

  2. Republicans control 34 state legislatures (thanks Rience!) and all of the key swing states I believe. So Democrats could only do this in state Hillary already won.

    Andrew E.

    November 14, 2016 at 1:51 pm

  3. The asshole left can’t think of anything that would actually make sense, so they come up with nonsense like yakking the electors to changing their vote. Each party selects their own slate; Trayvon Martin’s mom is a Dem elector in Florida, you think some smooth talker is getting her to switch sides? Or the peeps on the conservative side???? Not gonna happen.

    Dee

    November 14, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    • Except that she won’t be voting since Trump carried Florida and thus the 29 electors are Republicans who will vote for him.

      sestamibi

      November 14, 2016 at 9:41 pm

  4. Wait to see what happens with the protests. If the liberals think that they can intimidate the Electoral College, they will try. The Electoral College meets on December 19th, over a month away. This country is so broken I could still see Hillary becoming President because of threats and intimidation directed at the electoral college.

    NotWesley

    November 14, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    • Calm down. The protests aren’t affecting real life here in NYC. If anything the violence disgust most Dems.

      gothamette

      November 14, 2016 at 4:44 pm

      • You’re right, although Donald Trump is now at higher risk of being assassinated than any president of my lifetime. Look at the shit Joss Whedon and Paul Schrader have been saying. These are comfortable Hollywood elites who won’t actually do anything themselves, but they’re the corporate left equivalent of those Ugly Old Men who send true-believing youths off to die in wars they have no stake in and which benefit only themselves.

        Richard

        November 14, 2016 at 11:26 pm

      • No one seems to point out that the protests are mostly a millennial phenomenon. Most young people are raging liberals. They also want to see the baby boomers head to the grave sooner than later.

        JS

        November 15, 2016 at 12:37 am

    • I’m hearing ‘President-Elect Donald Trump’ on the news a hundred times an hour. People are adjusting. The people in control are smoothly handing things over. Hillary quickly conceded and Obama is moving forward normally.

      The Republican electors are not going to want to reject a Republican president. You need 37 Republican electors to defect. The Trump electors are not just anybody, they are partisan Republicans. That will not happen. Perhaps 1 might go rogue.

      Dan

      November 14, 2016 at 6:32 pm

  5. The 14th ammendment would seem to discourage removing the popular vote from the selection of electors:

    “But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.”

    It could be that this means some qualified citizen being prohibited in voting, when other qualified citizens are not. Rather than a list of all the things states have to hold elections about. What I am concerned about are schemes to award a state’s electors to whichever candidate wins the national popular vote. It is hard to see how this does not disinfranchise that state’s voters.

    dbp

    November 14, 2016 at 2:36 pm

  6. Do you already think it was a mistake to sell all your stocks or do you think this bullmarket is just temporary?

    tmmm

    November 14, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    • Probably was a mistake. But so far, there hasn’t be a big change in prices.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      November 14, 2016 at 4:21 pm

      • Never a mistake to protect your capital, I still expect a pullback to the 208 range (spy) and then it’s off to the races, the only question is what to buy and I’m stuck on the infrastructure spending.

        2 Minute Alpha

        November 14, 2016 at 7:19 pm

      • Timing the market is generally a mistake.

        Yakov

        November 14, 2016 at 7:32 pm

  7. Some commenters seem to think allocating electors by congressional districts won would help democrats. It’s obviously the opposite. The democrat vote is hyper concentrated, geographically.

    Going to proportional allocation by district would be a huge victory for the right.

    bob

    November 14, 2016 at 3:08 pm

  8. Sailer points out that the Electoral College nearly handed Kerry a win in 2004, which I had forgotten, after giving Bush his win in 2000. I think the EC would have to cost one party 2-3 elections in a row before eliminating it gains steam. Though I do think it will be discussed more this time than the last few times. As soon as Trump gives the Left a tangible act of government to oppose, any ideas about reforming the EC will peter out.

    I’ve heard it said that there are no honest procedural arguments, which mostly seems to hold true. Very few people are capable of arguing, “things ought to be conducted this way even though it hurts my tribe”.

    From the crooked timber of man, no straight thing was ever made, EC or no EC. Sometimes the majority is right, and sometimes it’s wrong. Give exceptional powers to an elite, and sometimes you’ll get better results, other times much worse.

    Wency

    November 14, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    • OK, Otis, that article convinced me. I’m no longer reading this shit. In fact, Lion will be happy to hear this, I’m going on an internet sabbatical. Because that stuff is driving me batty.

      I guess I should enjoy girls like her, because they are so fucking obnoxious, even leftist whites will get sick of her:

      “And white people, you give permission to this culture every day you do nothing more than have “conversations on race.” You don’t get to just have conversations anymore. You don’t get to just wear a safety pin and call yourself an ally. You don’t get to just talk while the rest of us fear for our lives because discrimination, rape culture, and xenophobia just won the White House.”

      I love the “white people, you….” series of orders. I can just see her ideal white person: someone with BPD, kneeling in front of her, begging to be whipped.

      Well, sweetie, YOU don’t give the orders anymore. Kapish?

      gothamette

      November 14, 2016 at 11:04 pm

      • “And white people, you give permission to….

        ……black folks to come out and vote for Hillary!

        But they didn’t do that in numbers comparable to Obama’s 2012 numbers versus Romney.

        And that was the election! PA, Mich, Wisc, Florida! Trump won because the black vote went on vacation.

        No Trump juggernaut among White Devils. It was that black vote, or lack thereof, that handed the election to Trump.

        Also Trump got some 30% of Asians and Latinos and nearly 40% of “Other”. Something like that.

        They could not have won Arizona without 31% of Latinos!! More that Romney’s numbers.

        Democrats are still in full BWDM – Blame Whitey Denial Mode.

        Rifleman

        November 15, 2016 at 7:51 am

  9. The vast majority of the insanity on the left is because (a) we’ve got Twitter and (b) they have a right to be shocked. But we should look carefully at the core Democrat reax. So far they are:

    1. Bernie Sanders/Warren contrition. “We have to learn to talk to the white working class.” (Ain’t gonna happen but that’s what they are saying.”)
    2. Axelrod. “This was a primal scream of pain.” (similar to #1.)
    3. Joss Whedon/Paul Schrader: paraphrase: “Trump must be prevented from taking office by any means necessary, including violence.”
    4. Street fights, mass chaos, helped by Soros.

    Are there any other responses that I missed? Does anyone take the Whedon-Schraderite faction seriously, or is this just Hollywood twitter-warriors?

    gothamette

    November 14, 2016 at 4:49 pm

    • “Does anyone take the Whedon-Schraderite faction seriously…”

      Oh yes. Read NeoGaf or DailyKos. They are talking about insurrection and they are dead serious.

      Otis the Sweaty

      November 14, 2016 at 5:55 pm

      • OK – what steps do we take to counter them? What steps does the state take?

        gothamette

        November 14, 2016 at 7:07 pm

      • Nothing, we *want* them to get violent. They are alienating their own base. “Moderate” suburban whites are totally disgusted with the Left’s behavior. Just like how the anti war protests actually strengthened Nixon.

        Otis the Sweaty

        November 14, 2016 at 7:39 pm

      • I’m looking forward to the insurrection, please give us anarchy and roving dindu/prog gangs burning and looting. They’re rabble, it won’t be hard. In fact, I bet it would be quite satisfying.

        Glengarry

        November 15, 2016 at 6:15 am

    • Whedon and Schrader both like their right-wing-archetype characters the most, perhaps without realizing it. For Whedon: Giles the English super-competent colonial administrator, Spike the loner aristocratic cowboy. Also, FIREFLY’s obviously a right-wing myth. He can’t help it. For Schrader: the TAXI DRIVER dude and the Nicholas Cage EMT guy are both White-working-class loners struggling for Virtue in a disintegrating world. Something similar in Alan Moore’s WATCHMEN: he obviously likes Rorschach the loner-weirdo struggling on behalf of the Old Rules in a postmodern world more than Ozymandias, who is the archetypal Progressive technocrat, even though V FOR VENDETTA makes Moore’s Leftist allegiance explicit. Who these guys like is at variance with what they tell themselves they’re for. Also, speaking of TAXI DRIVER, note that De Niro’s Harry Tuttle in BRAZIL (he’s the outlaw-handyman) is another right-wing archetype, even though De Niro’s explicit allegiance is to Progressivism.

      Garr

      November 14, 2016 at 5:56 pm

      • More libertarian than right-wing.

        Robert

        November 15, 2016 at 4:36 am

      • Whedon and Schrader both like their right-wing-archetype characters the most, perhaps without realizing it.

        Don’t forget the generic Jewish liberal Democrat who created the 1980s show “Family Ties” with Michael J. Fox.

        The pro Reagan/young Republican Alex Keaton character took off and became the star of a show based around two Democrat parents.

        Also remember the left wingers are the most arrogant and demanding of attention. Most moderate conservative actors/directors are more modest if not timid.

        Rifleman

        November 15, 2016 at 8:25 am

      • Even though Families Ties featured two liberal Democratic parents, the theme of the show is that the wise father, with a good career, solves family problems, which is a very conservative theme. A liberal theme is that men are useless.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        November 15, 2016 at 9:30 am

    • The smart response is a) we BARELY lost b) demographic change is still working rapidly to our advantage (and on top of what would happen anyway it looks like Trump is stupid enough to legalize millions of current illegal immigrants) and c) we can just jack up turnout by nominating another black person (maybe even a real black person this time).

      Republicans look far stupider for not freaking out than Democrats do for doing it.

      Magnavox

      November 14, 2016 at 6:29 pm

      • The smart response is a) we BARELY lost b) demographic change is still working rapidly to our advantage (and on top of what would happen anyway it looks like Trump is stupid enough to legalize millions of current illegal immigrants) and c) we can just jack up turnout by nominating another black person (maybe even a real black person this time).

        Some truth to this but:

        1 -Young people get more conservative with age.

        2- newer generation may rebel against the PC/SJW previous generation and begin to see Trump as a cultural hero and become more conservative American nationalist Republican. Maybe.

        3 – Asian and Latino future might become more “guido-patriotic-rah rah America” and not join the SWPL/SJW/WASP-Jewish liberal/blackblackblackety black 24/7black Democrats.

        Trump got 30% of Asian/Latino/”other”. Big upside potential there.

        Remember, the non black and non White populations might not go along with their dirtbag loudmouths anymore than the White majority went with their media elite/Portlandia/SJW scum.

        Rifleman

        November 15, 2016 at 8:16 am

      • I think you leave out the hispanics.

        Why should the Latino’s (or for that matter asians) continue to line up behind black politicians? Trump was a good candidate for them to turn out against and it was still meh. When they are the more populas minority I dont see whats in it for them to delivery lock step votes to another group.

        Lion of the Turambar

        November 15, 2016 at 8:35 am

    • Whedon must be prevented from making another movie by any means necessary, including violence.

      Glengarry

      November 15, 2016 at 6:17 am

  10. For the EC to change there would have to be incentive to change it. We control all 3 gov branches so we certainly aren’t changing it.

    The EC actually needs to be strengthened. First it should only be based on voting age citizens, not on total population. This would remove EC votes from CA and add 10 to our states. Secondly, all states besides DC should have their EC votes raised by 5. This would further water down the importance of IL, CA and NY. Third, inland CA and upstate NY should be broken off from their liberal coasts into separate states. Fourth, WV and VI should be rejoined into a single state. Fifth, states themselves should be done by electoral colleges with each county getting electoral votes. And lastly, states should be given extra EVs based on land mass.

    Otis the Sweaty

    November 14, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    • So actually winning by getting more support from the people is out of the question?

      Magnavox

      November 14, 2016 at 6:25 pm

      • First of all, we are going to win more support. We are already at 67% of the WWC vote. Eventually we will be at 75% of the TOTAL white vote simply because the Dems are going to quadruple down on open borders, Islam and BLM. Fairly soon they are going to start running on raising taxes for the middle class to give more free stuff to blacks and they are going to further emphasize gun control and global warming. And history shows that the more white votes you win, the more asian and hispanic votes you win with it.

        2nd of all, it is important that our electoral system weakens the power of cucked out urban elites and minorities. I really don’t think either group should have any say at all in who runs the country but as long as they do, we need to reduce their influence as much as possible.

        3rd, ultimately we are simply going to have to import 10s of million of more white people to regain some of the demographic balance that we lost. We can’t do it now but eventually I’d like to see us add another 50 million whites. That plus ethnic attrition of hispanics and asians into the white majority will neutralize some of the effects of 50 years of non white mass immigration.

        Otis the Sweaty

        November 14, 2016 at 7:22 pm

      • Otis, where you gonna import 10s of millions of whites from? No where.

        Anyway not necessary. We begin by taking over the country. This is only the beginning. We can turn the demographic tide our way, just as it was swung away by stupid political acts.

        If the black population can be brought down to below replacement level in one generation, their population will collapse. They are hovering at replacement level now.

        It’s like Israel with the Arabs. 20 years ago everyone was pissing and moaning about how they were going to take over by demography. No more. Their birthrates dropped, the Jewish birthrate went up a bit, and guess what, Israel stays Jewish for the foreseeable future.

        gothamette

        November 14, 2016 at 8:39 pm

    • None of that will happen except this: “First it should only be based on voting age citizens, not on total population.”

      You could bluff with the other stuff, tho.

      gothamette

      November 14, 2016 at 7:16 pm

      • Hillary won 478 out of 3144 counties. Wowz.

        gothamette

        November 14, 2016 at 8:36 pm

    • If the black population can be brought down to below replacement level in one generation, their population will collapse. They are hovering at replacement level now.

      Well White women are doing their part to help the black birth rates.

      Interesting the number of black loudmouths and White haters have White mothers and black fathers who have abandoned them.

      Obama, Kaperneck and all those BLM dirt bags.

      I’ve lived off and on throughout small town White America and the number of White women and girls with black kids is pretty amazing.

      Rifleman

      November 15, 2016 at 8:01 am

  11. And on the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S., Trump told Pelley he planned to “round them up” in a “humane way.”

    “And they’re going to be happy because they want to be legalized. And, by the way, I know it doesn’t sound nice. But not everything is nice,” Trump said.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-election-donald-trump-60-minutes-campaign-issues/

    So that sounds like a disaster.

    Magnavox

    November 14, 2016 at 5:08 pm

    • It looks like that was actually from an older interview just being repackaged after his election. But his comments in the most recent interview were even worse! In the quote above he’s talking about touch back amnesty and now it’s just regular amnesty.

      Donald Trump: What we are going to do is get the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers, we have a lot of these people, probably two million, it could be even three million, we are getting them out of our country or we are going to incarcerate. But we’re getting them out of our country, they’re here illegally. After the border is secured and after everything gets normalized, we’re going to make a determination on the people that you’re talking about who are terrific people, they’re terrific people but we are gonna make a determination at that– But before we make that determination– Lesley, it’s very important, we want to secure our border.

      Hopefully he’s lying.

      Magnavox

      November 14, 2016 at 10:08 pm

  12. Is there some moronic movement to undermine the result with some EC shenanigans?

    Because 95% of people just want the damn election cycle to be over. Going into extra innings is not going to fly.

    Lion of the Turambar

    November 14, 2016 at 5:16 pm

    • Yes, there is a movement to recruit “faithless electors.”

      gothamette

      November 14, 2016 at 11:05 pm

  13. The whole winner-take-all election by state thing is merely an extra-constitutional state-level custom, and individual states could change it if they wanted to.

    Blue states should change it. Red states should keep it like it is.🙂

    destructure

    November 14, 2016 at 5:20 pm

  14. Deleted a post? I missed it! I hope I didn’t miss any of Yakov’s wisdom or a homicidal rant from Otis!

    Gozo

    November 14, 2016 at 5:31 pm

  15. Lion, you’ve criticised the Republican obsession with abortion in the past, but what do you think about his proposal to devolve the issue to State level?

    I read Trump got 80% of the Evangelical vote. That’s as high as the number of black men who voted for Clinton. If Trump was able to secure this as a reliable monolithic voting bloc with all their organisational advantages then doesn’t tossing them this bone start to look like sound strategy?

    If you devolved the issue down to State level then hopefully that would mean that strongly Democrat places like California would still have abortion, which is exactly the kind of place where you’d really want it to stay legal anyway.

    prolier than thou

    November 14, 2016 at 6:18 pm

    • I think that Trump is still repeating the shtick he had to say to win the Repub nomination. Abortion will never work at the state level, Repubs in Congress would want to outlaw it everywhere, Dems in Congress would want to legalize it everywhere.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      November 14, 2016 at 6:24 pm

  16. I read this genius statement today, ” The polls weren’t wrong. The voters were.”

    cesqy

    November 14, 2016 at 6:26 pm

    • That’s an old saying. I forget who first said it, and even he probably didn’t say it.

      gothamette

      November 14, 2016 at 7:19 pm

  17. good article on Vox about how Trump is using deceptive language to sell the public on his policies for destruction of the immigrant community: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/14/13623004/trump-deport-million-immigrants

    This is a mirror of what Obama did: Obama completely opened the borders but reclassified things so it made him look like he was tough on enforcement. Trump is executing policies that will lead to the utter annihilation of the immigrant but he is making it seem like he is just getting rid of criminals. It’s brilliant.

    Otis the Sweaty

    November 14, 2016 at 8:15 pm

    • “…on his policies for destruction of the immigrant community”

      And the sooner the better…

      Vincent

      November 14, 2016 at 9:19 pm

    • Another aspect is the power of publicity. Every time a cop killed a black person it was Top News because the President made a fuss over Michael Brown. You can bet that every time an illegal kills an American Steve Bannon will be on the case. If he is appointed. Quite a brouhaha over him now. If Trump caves on Bannon…..

      gothamette

      November 15, 2016 at 7:50 am

  18. “The whole winner-take-all election by state thing is merely an extra-constitutional state-level custom, and individual states could change it if they wanted to.”

    2 states, Maine and Nebraska, go by Congressional districts. The Libertarians are pushing an interstate compact for more states to do that.

    Robert

    November 15, 2016 at 4:41 am


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