Lion of the Blogosphere

#Pizzagate nonsense

This fails the believability test for several reasons

1. If something sounds too good to be true, then it’s not true

From the perspective of someone who hates the liberal elites, that you’ve uncovered some conspiracy that would put dozens of them into prison for a long time, that’s too good to be true.

Maybe Trump winning the election and becoming POTUS also sounds almost too good to be true, but Trump is only one person who’s a master persuader (according to Scott Adams) and not a conspiracy. A Black Swan event maybe, but it doesn’t disprove that my rule, if something sounds too good to be true then it’s not true, works at least 99% of the time.

2. Unlikelihood of so many people being into the same weird stuff

A single guy can be a pervert, like Anthony Weiner. And his perversion isn’t abnormal, he’s not the only guy to send pictures of his penis to women he met on the internet, this is actually quite common.

But a whole bunch of people high up in the Democratic Party with the same weird fetish? I don’t think so.

And let us not confuse two types of “pedophilia.” Men wanting to have sex with girls who are teenagers and sexually mature, but technically underage, is not really that perverted, even though society says it’s supposed to be wrong.

The type of pedophilia that’s supposed to be going on in the pizza restaurant is the more abnormal kind in which men are attracted to pre-adolescent children.

3. They have high IQs and wouldn’t be so open about it

The people who are supposed to be involved in this conspiracy are not the type of low-IQ morons who take videos of their crimes and post them on YouTube. If they were involved in such a conspiracy, they wouldn’t hang artwork in their homes and businesses suggestive of such a conspiracy, and they wouldn’t discuss it in emails that were stored on HRC’s server. At the very least, they’d create pseudonymous email addresses (although that’s not safe from authorities because if you use Gmail, for example, Google can figure out who you are based on your IP address, but at least it gets lost in the sea of trillions of emails sent each year).

Why has this conspiracy taken hold?

Well one reason is that people no longer trust the supposedly most-respected media sources like the New York Times because they think that if there really were such a huge conspiracy, the New York Times, which is in bed with the Democrats, would try to hide it rather than investigate it and bring it out into the open.

That these supposedly most-respected media sources are using their latest propaganda term, “fake news,” to describe #pizzagate, is only making matters worse and trolling the conspiracy theorists. Because it’s not fake news, it’s speculation about stuff found in Podesta’s emails (unhinged speculation, but speculation nevertheless), those emails which the supposedly most-respected media sources have tried as hard as possible to ignore in favor of hyping every anti-Trump angle they can think of. The more realistic conspiracy found in the emails, that the Clintons illegally received payments (for speeches and as donations to their Foundation) which influenced policy, is not being investigated, as far as I know.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

December 5, 2016 at 12:32 pm

Posted in Politics

111 Responses

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  1. I often disagree with Lion but this time he’s right, it’s TGTBT. As far as I can tell, the chief dreamers/hopers on this thing are Vox Day and Agnostic (his blog is Face to Face). Despite the Trump win, what’s clear is that the alt-right has not yet figured out how to defang the leftist charge “racist.” I know this is what angers me more than anything. It’s this powerlessness hat makes us want to see lefties go down for something that everyone agrees is even worse than racism, so it’s making some of us lose our perspective. But it’s clearly TGTBT.

    Cole Haight

    December 5, 2016 at 12:42 pm

    • As far as I can tell, the chief dreamers/hopers on this thing are Vox Day and Agnostic (his blog is Face to Face).

      I haven’t seen Vox post about it much at all. My main source on it has been

      Samson J.

      December 5, 2016 at 4:48 pm

      • The Youtuber Mark Dice has been on board with this also. But he’s an idiot on a lot of things.


        December 5, 2016 at 5:58 pm

      • I’m pretty disappointed Agnostic fell for this wacky conspiracy theory. Some of content on Face to Face is really good.


        December 6, 2016 at 3:42 pm

  2. I thought so too, Lion, till I read this article. Now I’m not sure

    The author brings up Rotherham, which sounded too good to be true and seemed to require too much coordination.

    “3. They have high IQs and wouldn’t be so open about it”

    If they’re sickos who get a kick out of molesting children, how much of a stretch is it to believe that they get a thrill from talking about it in code on Instagram?

    We already know that there’s a community that thinks that creepy drawings of children in chains is great art and enjoys drawing with feces and blood. I wouldn’t believe that if there wasn’t proof. These are bizarre people, their artistic tastes indicate some deep sickness, which may influence their ethics.


    December 5, 2016 at 12:44 pm

    • There is a viewpoint within the art-world elites that the most-true art is art that offends the proles.

      Rotherham involved Muslims, and Islam sanctions that because the Prophet, who was the most perfect human ever to live, married a six-yer-old and had sex with her when she was nine (according to the hadiths). But the actual girls involved there were teenagers, not pre-adolecent children that the #pizzagate people are supposedly into. Teenage prostitution is really not that uncommon out in the world.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 5, 2016 at 12:50 pm

      • “There is a viewpoint within the art-world elites that the most-true art is art that offends the proles.”

        So maybe they feel the same about sexual ethics? I mean, the people who run NAMBLA believe that they have moral justification for what they’re doing. I’ll bet there’s a high correlation between liking pedo-art and being a pedophile.


        December 5, 2016 at 1:07 pm

      • There is a viewpoint within the art-world elites that the most-true art is art that offends the proles.

        It’s been interesting for me to see just how prole your commentors are based on the fact that so many of them are totally unfamiliar with that concept and not only don’t like modern art (which is fine) but are completely unable to recognize it.


        December 5, 2016 at 2:00 pm

      • Come on, Lion. Your blog is about status signaling.

        You know that “offends the proles” is a way of signaling in not just art, but in a thousand things.

        You know that “is illegal” is a way of signaling status in a thousand kinds of consumption goods and activities.

        “offends the proles, and is illegal” is simply taking this to its logical conclusion.

        It doesn’t require the signaler to actually be much of a natural pedophile. Just sick enough to be able to carry through with abuse of a child. And frankly, plenty of these people are that.


        December 5, 2016 at 4:00 pm

      • @ magnavox

        You can call me prole or anything else you want. I maintain most so-called modern art is a scam and people only fall for it because they want people to think they are smart and upper class.

        The type of art Podesta and his ilk prefer is simply disgusting. I’m not saying he is necessarily a pedophile. But I think he likes to shock people by hanging ugly and suggestive art in his home and place of business.

        His brother Tony Podesta, also a dem operative, has an 8 foot picture of a naked man handing in his living room.

        Nobody in their right mind would hang this ugly thing in their home unless they were doing it to shock or impress others.

        This quote is about Tony Podesta and is wife (now ex):


        “Though pictures rotate on and off the walls of the couple’s homes, a piece in the Woodley Park living room stays. Called “Soliloquy VII,” the nearly eight-foot-tall color photo by British artist Sam Taylor-Wood is an update of a late-15th-century painting of the dead Jesus. Taylor-Wood faithfully replicates the original’s composition, here photographing, in vivid color and minute detail, a young man laid out on his back. Just one thing: Taylor-Wood omits the shroud, displaying his subject in all his nakedness.

        Though often politely ignored, “Soliloquy VII” is rarely forgotten. Tony and Heather love it. They crane their necks to hear the whispers generated when the pols stop in. Tony often uses the work to launch into a story about Hillary Clinton’s visit, when she ducked and tiptoed around the work lest any photo opportunity capture her alongside the naked figure.


        The quote is from a 2004 WaPo article. WaPo it took off the internet after people started talking about spirit cooking, but it was resurrected somehow.

        I’m so thankful these creepy, nasty people have been put out of power. Trump’s gold trimmed home may be tacky but at least it doesn’t make your skin crawl.


        December 5, 2016 at 4:27 pm

      • I find it unlikely Hillary would be into pedophilia just because it would be so atypical of female sexual behavior.

        I think a few of the men in her circle like John Podesta could be pedophiles but a whole ring seems unlikely.

        I lean towards most of the emails being code for drugs and other illegal activity, possibly a smaller fraction referring to gossip about pedophilia acts by some of her advisors, but not an entire network.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        December 5, 2016 at 6:02 pm

      • So if the emails are referring to criminal activity other than pedophilia this leads to a self-reinforcing loop that makes Clinton associates hesitant to talk about what misbehavior their code was. Then their hesitancy feeds more fuel onto the wildest (and therefore unlikeliest) pedophilia internet rumors about what is really going on.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        December 5, 2016 at 6:06 pm

      • Rotherham involved Muslims, and Islam sanctions that because the Prophet, who was the most perfect human ever to live, married a six-yer-old and had sex with her when she was nine (according to the hadiths).

        The girls enslaved in Rotherham weren’t pushed out to the British elite, however. Mostly they were sold to other prole Muslim immigrant who don’t attract media publicity the way famous Britons would.

        Hillary’s great celebrity would make an entire child molestation ring harder to cover up even with the mainstream media protecting her.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        December 5, 2016 at 6:17 pm

      • redarmyvodka

        December 6, 2016 at 5:39 am

    • “3. They have high IQs and wouldn’t be so open about it”

      If they’re sickos who get a kick out of molesting children, how much of a stretch is it to believe that they get a thrill from talking about it in code on Instagram?

      It’s a question of whether or not they’re sickos who enjoy being convicted pedophiles in prison.


      December 5, 2016 at 1:58 pm

      • They could be sickos who believe they are invulnerable. Wouldn’t be the first time.

        Hobbesian Meliorist

        December 5, 2016 at 4:44 pm

      • Pedophiles don’t have an easy time in prison. They’re viewed as the lowest of the low by most prisoners. A pedophile’s best option is to be put in protective custody.

        Lewis Medlock

        December 5, 2016 at 5:59 pm

      • X-men Director Bryan Singer is pretty openly molesting children and getting away with it. His molesting becomes public knowledge and he continues to get handed Hollywood Blockbusters.

        So, Lion’s point about high IQ people not being pedophiles or supporting this simply aren’t true.


        December 6, 2016 at 8:15 pm

      • Another example of a gay thing. A lot of gay men like them young. Not super-young, but younger than 18. The MSM won’t investigate this because they see their mission as doing everything possible to make “homophobia” go away, because “homophobia” is a great evil, almost as evil as racism.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 6, 2016 at 8:23 pm

    • @Hepp,

      The Counter Currents article is an example of marshalling a mountain of evidence – that’s not proving a case.

      He refers to the woman who was caught “trafficking” children out of Haiti. There’s no evidence she was doing for sexual purposes. She’s a dingbat white American Christian who thinks that whites in the US should be adopting every black kid on earth who she thinks is an orphan. It often turns out that these kids have one or both bio parents alive. She crazy but not a pedo, or a pedo enabler.


      December 5, 2016 at 3:34 pm

  3. They also claim that Hillary and Huma are involved in the child molestation; female pedophiles are vanishingly rare. (Besides, as you say, the cases where 25-year-old teachers hook up with their 15-year-old students).


    December 5, 2016 at 12:49 pm

    • Right, those boys are mature enough to have a strong sex drive, and consider themselves lucky to bang a teacher.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 5, 2016 at 12:53 pm

      • Judges used to say that about a lot of teenage girls who had sex with teachers or other adults, and it probably was true in some cases, but feminists complained loudly until that stopped. With boys, too, it’s probably true in some cases, not true in others.

        Hobbesian Meliorist

        December 5, 2016 at 4:52 pm

  4. On the flipside of that argument, a number of prominent people in showbiz and politics have been caught and jailed in the UK who got away with criminal pedophilic/hebephilic acts for years, and others confirmed posthumously to have been involved, and they seem to have been casual enough about secrecy that they really ought to have been caught earlier, and some of them were mutual friends or worked together.

    So it’s not implausible that something similar might happen in the USA. It wouldn’t have to be a huge, rigorously organized network to be real, and most people in associated with the perpetrators probably wouldn’t know what was going on.

    Hobbesian Meliorist

    December 5, 2016 at 12:57 pm

    • I’m glad you brought this up because it gives me an opportunity to point something out.

      Most Americans are so dumb and uninformed, they don’t know the difference between pedophilia and pederasty. Even Lion didn’t refer to pederasty in his post. Most of the people twittering about “pizzagate” are part of that stupid crowd.

      Gays in my experience aren’t pedophiles any more than straights are. But they are huge pederasts. Pederasty up until the modern gay rights movement was the primary form of gay erotic desire, and I do not know one gay man who doesn’t lust over twinks and chickens. They restrain themselves because it would be political suicide for them to be open about this.

      Terry Bean, the Democrat bundler who I referred to, had sex with a 15 year old and paid him 200K to shut up. Since the boy wouldn’t testify, the case was dropped, but the judge gave him the opportunity to refile. I linked to this earlier & you can look it up.

      The Comet Ping Pong crowd is hip and “transgressive” and pseudo-sophisticated, so they like to troll the rednecks. That’s what most of this is about. But I am 99% sure that the place is a gay pick up joint.

      Upshot: Bait for the boobs. There’s a lot of idiots in this country. The thing is, if they knew the truth, well…..


      December 5, 2016 at 1:08 pm

      • Pederasty is a form of pedophilia. It’s an adult male engaging in sex with a boy.


        December 5, 2016 at 2:03 pm

      • Pederasty and pedophilia are two distinctly different things. Magnavox, you are not as bright as you think you are. Look it up, I’m not about to school you.


        December 5, 2016 at 3:23 pm

      • To be precise, pederasty is a sexual act of a man on a boy; pedophilia is a sexual attraction of an adult (of either sex) to prepubescent children (of either sex), and hebephilia is a sexual attraction of an adult (of either sex) to pubescent children (of either sex). Pederasty, then, can be an expression of pedophilia or hebephilia.

        Hobbesian Meliorist

        December 5, 2016 at 4:38 pm

      • In practice pederasty involved boys who were either adolescent or on the cusp of manhood. It’s a special category on its own that’s quite separate from the pedophilia being alleged in


        December 5, 2016 at 5:59 pm

      • Pederasty is an adult man being sexually attracted to an adolescent boy. Pedophilia is an adult being sexually attracted to a child. There is no equivalent word for an adult man being sexually attracted to a sexually mature teenage female, because that isn’t a psychological disorder.

        David Pinsen

        December 5, 2016 at 4:39 pm

      • As far I can tell what I said was accurate. Both pedophilia and pederasty have wishy washy borders as to when exactly they do and don’t apply. And they both raise the question of when people are misusing a term vs the meaning of that term having evolved.


        December 5, 2016 at 5:31 pm

      • @Dave,

        In all the time periods where pederasty was a feature (Classical Greece, Tokugawa Japan and 15th century Florence) pederasty involved teenaged boys. It was institutionalized.


        December 5, 2016 at 6:21 pm

  5. I think the child molestation stuff is real. The guy who really did the good work on this is Mike Cernovich. If Cern says it is legit then there is a pretty good chance it is.

    Now as to whether a specific pizza chain is involved in this stuff, I agree probably not. The real story is in the emails.

    Otis the Sweaty

    December 5, 2016 at 1:08 pm

    • Mike Cernovich is not necessarily a good authority. When the National Inquirer had a fake news story that said Ted Cruz had five mistresses, he was acting as if it was the gospel truth. That story had zero believability to it. Ted Cruz is as square and dorky and religious as they come. He couldn’t have had 5 hot mistresses if he wanted to. There was no way he is banging everyone in sight.

      And Cernovich is doubting Pizzagate himself.


      December 5, 2016 at 2:52 pm

    • Cernovich is being a huge idiot re PizzaGate.

      His ‘smoking gun’ is Dennis Hastert. This is retarded:

      (1) Hastert’s apparent abuse was from circa 1970 and earlier. That is nearly fifty years ago.

      (2) Hastert was not covered up or ignored. He was destroyed. He lives in prison right now.

      (3) Hastert has nothing to do with these people. For one thing he of a different generation, way older than these people. For another, he is a Republican and is not friends with any of these folks.

      (4) Hastert’s case involved post pubescent teenagers at a high school where he taught in Illinois 50 years ago.

      (5) Hastert’s case had nothing to do with any conspiracy or ring or anything like that. He was just a sports coach ages ago who acted by himself and then the victims many years later demanded hush money which got him in trouble.

      Cernovich is a big dummy who is stirring up this crap and the GamerGaters think he is some kind of god.


      December 5, 2016 at 3:16 pm

      • “(4) Hastert’s case involved post pubescent teenagers at a high school where he taught in Illinois 50 years ago. ”

        Right, Hastert was a pederast, not a pedophile.

        I wouldn’t doubt for two seconds that the guy who owns Comet Ping Pong has a thing for twinks. Or David Brock, with whom he had a relationship.

        If anything was going on, it would be covered up as was the murder of Robert Wone.


        December 5, 2016 at 3:26 pm

      • Gothamette,

        These are distinctions without a difference. There is a bright-line rule that establishes age of consent, both floors and ceilings. Some states allow the age of consent to be 16, but only if the adult partner hits a ceiling of 24.

        What is universally reviled is any sexual activity of adults toward children, especially adults in any kind of authority. This mirrors the concern of parents, as it should. Therefore, the distinctions between “pederast” and “pedophile” is immaterial, since both involve violent crimes against children and such crimes should be treated with extreme prejudice.


        December 5, 2016 at 8:26 pm

      • @map,

        I’m not defending it. I’m pointing out differences. I doubt that there’s any pedophilia going on with Comet Ping Pong. Pederasty…..? I wouldn’t be surprised.


        December 5, 2016 at 10:57 pm

      • “(3) Hastert has nothing to do with these people. For one thing he of a different generation, way older than these people. For another, he is a Republican and is not friends with any of these folks.”

        Nope. He and both the Podesta brothers go way back. Search wikileaks.

        Steve Johnson

        December 6, 2016 at 10:05 pm

      • “Nope. He and both the Podesta brothers go way back. Search wikileaks.”


        I always wonder why someone gets outed, like the guy in the toilet stall. Forgot his name. I mean, everyone knows what these guys are. Then SOMETHING happens. I think it’s blackmail. He does something to piss someone off, and then bazinga! Out the poor bastard.


        December 7, 2016 at 12:13 pm

    • Otis,

      Cernovich is a kook and a fraud. Just seeing his name is enough to make me suspicious. Disappointed that the creator of the famed Otis Index can’t see through this shill.


      December 5, 2016 at 3:36 pm

      • I’m actually a pretty big non-fan of Cernovich too. I don’t know what Vox sees in him.

        Samson J.

        December 5, 2016 at 9:58 pm

      • That’s the internet for you. Alliances are strange, and fragile.


        December 6, 2016 at 12:21 pm

  6. My impression is that this was a satirical conspiracy theory that started being taken seriously (by laypeople) once it leaked out of Trollville.


    December 5, 2016 at 1:30 pm

  7. The very top of our political and cultural elites are undoubtedly involved in Satansim, pedophilia and child trafficking. This pizzagate stuff could be a psyop these people to keep attention on low level people like the Podestas (who clearly are into enough genuinely wierd stuff to hold people’s attention) and away from them.

    Andrew E.

    December 5, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    • This thread is making it easier to know whose comments I can safely skip over in the future.

      Seth Largo

      December 5, 2016 at 2:09 pm

      • Yep

        Andrew E.

        December 5, 2016 at 3:24 pm

    • If our political-cultural elites believed Satan was real they wouldn’t be hedonistic.


      December 5, 2016 at 2:20 pm

      • I said the top of the top. Those who really believe in Lucifer (the ‘angel of light’) engage in sex/abuse rituals because they believe it gives them earthly power. And for those few who really know what they’re doing (because Satan and God or both in fact real) it does.

        But below that the hedonism of sex and drugs is done to mask the deep psychological pain of a meaningless existence.

        Andrew E.

        December 5, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    • The very top of our political and cultural elites are undoubtedly involved in Satansim

      I am on record (I can’t remember where; it might be here on this blog!) as saying, several years ago, that I would not be surprised if Hillary were an actual, real, live Satan worshiper. (Here’s a link from VD’s earlier this year, although I know I wrote it elsewhere even earlier.)

      I agree that, taking a step back to think it over, it does seem far-fetched, by any standard of normality, to suppose that the WHOLE government of the USA is riddled with Satanists. And yet, there are too many “coincidences” going on here. An actual demonic influence would explain most of the counter-arguments in Lion’s OP. I don’t buy that people are into this sort of stuff purely to “offend the proles”.

      How did Andrew Breitbart know about John Podesta over five years ago, folks?

      Samson J.

      December 5, 2016 at 4:39 pm

    • lol


      December 5, 2016 at 8:50 pm

  8. I’m only vaguely aware of the allegation and haven’t bothered to read up on it. Having said that, it would be naive to think such things don’t happen. Too many wealthy and influential people have been caught up in sex rings to doubt their existence. The question is whether there’s any truth to THESE particular allegations.

    I have no opinion on whether it’s true. But I agree with Leon that it’s tempting to assume the worst when one doesn’t like the people involved. Understandable, perhaps, but pushing a fake pedophile scandal is the kind of thing that would make the right look ridiculous. People should slow down and wait for the evidence if there even is any.


    December 5, 2016 at 1:42 pm

  9. The murderous rage that a lot of regular people feel toward pedophiles confused me until I had a kid, but I understand it now. I’m generally dismissive of the idea that organized pedophile rings like the one described in the #Pizzagate story can exist (I’m aware of the Westminster pedophile dossier). Pedophilia rings are usually a bottom up thing where perverts meet each other online and occasionally meet up in real life. It’s just not something non-pedophiles are going to tolerate and too many people are connected.

    However, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if James Alefantis has a lot of kiddie porn on his computer at home.

    The media is fueling #Pizzagate with their coverage. There is some weird stuff going on and pretending that it’s been thoroughly debunked when it hasn’t looks like further evidence of a conspiracy to people who think there’s something to the story in the first place.

    Horace Pinker

    December 5, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    • My view is SWPLs are total dorks who worship the ordinary like a pizza place because they lack church or traditional community. These SWPLs were always smart and awkward and cocooned and then you get them together as grownups and the dorkiness goes stratospheric. They make a big deal about gathering at some hangout like this because that is the highest meaning in their pathetic lives, with no church, no connection to their parents or relatives, and the isolation of rootless cosmopolitans. Observers are right to sense that something is off about these people.

      How can pizza be at the center of someone’s life? I think the answer is just that these are shallow cosmopolitans who in a different era would have been connected to church or extended family or community and now this is what they have. A hangout that they like becomes the center of their world.

      That does not equal pedophilia.


      December 5, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    • The murderous rage that a lot of regular people feel toward pedophiles confused me until I had a kid, but I understand it now.

      Even though I have four children, I actually feel the opposite. The fact is, I’ve become numb to these things, which I consider tragic. In a society that celebrates abortion rights and mocks marriage by fake-extending it to homosexual “couples”, my capacity for rage is worn out.

      Samson J.

      December 5, 2016 at 4:42 pm

      • My children are grown up now, but I would be glad to kill someone if I caught them abusing any of my grandchildren. I wouldn’t hesitate.


        December 5, 2016 at 5:10 pm

      • That’s a very bad idea, American law enforcement dislikes vigilantes, going to prison doesn’t help your grandchildren recover from being abused.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 5, 2016 at 5:13 pm

      • Feeling the opposite because of abortion and gay marriage sounds strange to be, but I’m one of Lion’s more liberal leaning readers. If we’re talking Jonathan Haidt, my tolerance for disgust is pretty high and I find few things sacred.

        I used to–and still do–view pedophilia as a sexual orientation. When I can divorce myself from my emotions, I tend to think of pedophilia as something that pedophiles should feel comfortable seeking help for from therapists. As things are now–and it depends on the state–a lot of pedophiles don’t have access to therapy that’s adequate. Considering that we don’t usually imprison these people for life, civilly commit them, or execute them and that we aren’t moving in that direction, we could probably make these people “offend” less overall by allowing them to openly discuss their urges (to an extent) with therapists without the therapists being required to alert the authorities.

        But ever since we had the kid, I just want them all dead.

        Horace Pinker

        December 5, 2016 at 5:29 pm

      • @ Lion

        What you say is true–it would be illogical to kill the molesters and I probably wouldn’t or couldn’t do it. But the instinct to try is there.


        December 6, 2016 at 12:31 pm

  10. The code words in the email are real though. What are they a code for? I would’ve guessed drugs.

    Jason Liu

    December 5, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    • Yeah. Whatever else is true, it IS one HUNDRED percent true that “pizza” is code for SOMEthing. It might be drugs, although I don’t get why people are attracted to the idea of cocaine, personally.

      Samson J.

      December 5, 2016 at 4:44 pm

  11. So if Pizzagate is “fake news” then surely the MSM should be ready to admit that the thrice-debunked liberal media tantrum known as “hands up, don’t shoot” qualifies as fake news, as well?


    December 5, 2016 at 2:24 pm

  12. Most of the claims of pizzagate are flat out wrong. Also no victims have come forward so far. Trump can be linked to Epstein, but that doesn’t fit the confirmation bias of pizzagaters.

    But I have to challenge you somewhat on 2.) and 3.)
    How else would child molesters and perverts find each other if not with coded language, symbols and borderline questionable tastes? It takes high IQ to pull off plausible deniability and networking. Homosexuals used similar techniques in the past before Grinder was invented.

    Fraternities and Sororities engage in perverse hazing rituals. That binds people together. So does crime, corruption, blasphemy and any other taboo activity. Such people have to look out for each other and that in turn helps with career advancement.

    People who manage to successfully maintain a child molestation ring have to be highly competent and are likely also successful in other ways. I doubt that many organizations of this kind exist, precisely because it is difficult to pull off.


    December 5, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    • “How else would child molesters and perverts find each other if not with coded language, symbols and borderline questionable tastes?”

      The dark web. Which is still dangerous because the FBI is out to get pedophiles.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 5, 2016 at 2:50 pm

    • Trump is NOT linked to Epstein at least not in the way you’re falsely suggesting. I’ll repost what I wrote on the topic earlier.

      Podesta eats bowls of cum at spirit cooking rituals. His ugly face has pedophile written all over it. This is NOT a libelous statement when breast milk and sperm milk are necessary ingredients during spirit cooking. Have you heard of the pedophile satanist Jimmy Saville? That guy was an entertainer for decades despite looking like a creepy weirdo but low and behold he was a member of a VIP pedophile ring and satanic cult with links to the UK monarchy.

      More closer to home billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein was investigated in 2005 by local police in Florida who did a complete investigation before making an arrest in 2006. The case against Epstein was strong but when the local prosecutors began to back down due to pressure from Epstein’s high priced lawyers and VIP friends the case was handed over to the FBI and US Department of Justice which had the resources/power to fight back. Epstein was facing 20 years in prison but plead guilty in 2008 instead getting a much lighter sentence. He did have to register as a sex offender, spend one year in jail, pay millions in restitution to his victims, and perhaps most importantly turn over his VIP friend list which is how Bill Clinton’s name came up.

      Even Obama name dropped Epstein one time during his race for the Democratic nomination against Hillary. When Trump was being called a sexist early in the GOP primary Trump name dropped Epstein and the Clintons went silent. It’s like going nuclear on these people.

      Now another Clinton ally John Podesta is linked to pedophilia. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

      All my info suggests that Trump was recruited by a faction of the US elites to fight these people and rescue the country from its overall sorry state. These Wikileaks dumps are coming from people in our own security/military apparatus which given the NSA’s electronic espionage reach is far more likely than Russian hacking. The problem with intelligence however is that it usually can’t meet the strict burden of proof required in a court of law. These perverts are well connected and cover their tracks well but one thing we can do is raise awareness and expose them.


      December 6, 2016 at 5:17 am

      • Spirit cooking: artsy types making art out of Satanic imagery because they think that true art is art which offends the proles. They don’t believe in Satanism or serve human bodily fluids for dinner.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 6, 2016 at 10:36 am

  13. My guess is that there is a grain of truth in it but it’s been wildly exaggerated. It seems clear there were coded e-mails being sent.


    December 5, 2016 at 3:06 pm

  14. 5 facts:

    1.The legal owner of the pizza shop is the DoJ’s leading child trafficking official.
    2. Google Kim Noble’s art – that’s not anything any hipster or homosexual would have hanging in their business.
    3. The shop had a satanic symbol in its logo. It changed it after the rumors
    4. The shooter today is listed on IMDB as an actor
    5. NYT ‘debunked’ this ‘crazy message board’ conspiracy in the paper…why would it give it so much attention.

    Think about that.

    And think about Franklin, Nebraska.

    The Philosopher

    December 5, 2016 at 3:08 pm

    • 1. Same name, but same guy? Andrew Kline is not an unusual name.
      3. It was a symbol used by homosexual pederasts (according to FBI).
      4. There are lots of failed actors who make it to IMDB because of some low budget movie.
      5. Because it is low hanging fruit to support the fake news narrative.


      December 5, 2016 at 4:33 pm

      • 1. It is in Washington. And with that coincidence.
        2. Yes. There you go. Pederasty = paedophilia eventually.
        4. The ‘shooter’ shot 1 bullet into the floor. ‘Investigating’. If he was investigating he would go into the basement killzone.
        5. No because they want to sandbag it before it grows and grows.

        The Philosopher

        December 5, 2016 at 4:53 pm

    • redarmyvodka

      December 6, 2016 at 4:39 am

  15. It’s most likely drugs, with pizza and taking the place of “white girl” as slang for cocaine. All of these people seem like coke users, and we know Bill was a user in the 80s and early 90s. That being said, the pedo angle is not without some evidence. They are clearly talking in code in personal emails, which is something I’ve never encountered.

    A side note: have these people never heard of PGP encryption? Really, code words in 2016? They must be exceptionally stupid, even the small time drug dealers use PGP nowadays to deliver sensitive information to a known user.


    December 5, 2016 at 3:29 pm

  16. It is certainly believable that there are pedophiles in high political positions.

    There was the Mark Foley scandal in 2006. Foley was a Congressman who was accused of soliciting sex with male congressional pages.

    Denny Hastert, who was Speaker of the House from 1999 to 2007 turned out to be a pedophile, having molested young boys when he was high school teacher and wrestling coach. Hastert was accused of ignoring early warnings about Foley but denied the charge.

    Jeffrey Epstein was a Wall Street financier who was convicted of soliciting underage girls for prostitution. He was alleged to have had sex with many underage girls and to lend some of them to the famous and powerful. Virginia Roberts claimed that when she was 17 Epstein held her as a sex slave and forced her to have sex with many men, including Prince Andrew, Duke of York and Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz. They both have denied the claim. Epstein has been sued by a number of other women and has settled most of those cases out of court.

    Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker flew on Epstein’s private jet to Africa and Bill Clinton is reported to have also flown on Epstein’s plane to Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, China, Brunei, London, New York, the Azores, Belgium, Norway, and Russia, but flight logs do not show him traveling to Epstein’s St. Thomas estate where Epstein pimped young girls for his friends. Virginia Roberts claims she saw Clinton at Epstein’s St Thomas estate, but she never claimed to have sex with him and there is no record of Clinton traveling there. All of these trips were before Epstein’s 2008 conviction.

    A woman using the name Katie Johnson claimed she was rapped by Donald Trump in 1994 when she was 13 at a party hosted by Epstein. Her claims are being promoted by Norm Lubow, who is anti-Trump and famous for making outlandish claims about celebrities. She has filed several law suites and then dropped them.

    There are real pedophiles in Washington, but it is easy to make up false claims too.


    December 5, 2016 at 4:01 pm

    • An individual congressman having gay sex with probably-willing gay young adult pages is not the same thing as a pedophile ring.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 5, 2016 at 4:43 pm

      • Does Bawney Fwank know?


        December 5, 2016 at 4:52 pm

  17. Have any liberals/anti-trump folk accused Trump of pedophilia? I mean he has been accused of everything else. Why stop at pedophilia? Unless of course, they are involved in it somehow. Just a theory…


    December 5, 2016 at 4:05 pm

    • Yes, and the suit was dropped.

      I assume the elite were threatening Trump not to spill the beans on Epstein and Clinton.

      Trump is probably innocent for 3 main reasons:
      1. He’s quoted many years ago saying sth like “I like em young, but Epstein likes em very young”.
      2. He is a known skirt chaser of supermodels through his pageants…guys that bed supermodels do not go near kids.
      3. He doesn’t drink, smoke or do drugs….so unlikely he’d have such low impulse control on touching children.

      The Philosopher

      December 5, 2016 at 4:56 pm

  18. I will only quibble with one item.

    “They have high IQs and wouldn’t be so open about it”

    I think you are missing that “these people” — let’s just call them the Globalist Elites — have been entirely unthreatened for decades. If Hillary won, business as usual. If ANY of the Republi-cucks won, business as usual. They have owned every administration since, what? McKinley? (And look what they did to him.)

    They were supremely confident in their control over the banks, the government, the media. Why not be “risky” with your communication when NOTHING is at risk?

    Donald Trump changed all that, maybe. He’s a Black Swan, he’s an uncontrollable actor now in the mix (he only won because they didn’t take him seriously enough, in their brazen confidence). Has Trump heard any of this pizzagate stuff? Would he be willing to move on it?

    These are the unknowns. But until Trump won — and he’s not President yet — they had absolutely ZERO concern about being caught and exposed, whatever it is they are doing (same thing for the Clinton Bribe Machine — hell that WAS exposed and known, and NOTHING happened).

    And in any case, the circumstantial evidence, when you look at the gigantic pile of it, has to at least make you wonder what the heck is going on there.


    December 5, 2016 at 4:06 pm

    • Its a slam dunk. As I said, Podesta had Kim Nobles paintings in his house and people who he invited over were likely in the ring.

      Same with Hollywood, Corey Feldman talked about and paedos were well know in the Hollywood community and they are still there to this day.

      Same with Jimmy Saville in the BBC, which squashed people accusing him.

      Why? Because Saville was linked to a elite Brit ring.

      The same stories – satanic rituals involving young children.

      The Philosopher

      December 5, 2016 at 4:50 pm

  19. There is only circumstantial evidence, no smoking gun. So I understand people not believing. Me, I’m a believer. I’ll make my case addressing your points:

    1. If something sounds too good to be true, then it’s not true

    True. The perfect way in which this provides moral superiority for the alt-right is suspicious indeed. But as you say, 99% is not 100%. Also I prefer better ‘feel-good’ conspiracies, like that Hillary is a lesbian and that Bill has a bastard black son. Pizzagate is rotten, it does not make me feel good.

    2. Unlikelihood of so many people being into the same weird stuff

    I’d argue that leftism evolutionary selects for these kinds of people working together. The US has a lot of power concentrated in Washington DC, so plenty room for leftist conspiracies. The most effective conspiracies are those that have the tightest loyalty. Little inspires as much loyalty as child molestation blackmail.

    3. They have high IQs and wouldn’t be so open about it

    I’ve seen one professional child molester up close so this will be slightly anecdotal. I’d argue that precisely because they have high IQs they are open about it. By necessity they hide in plain sight, it is their ‘game’ so to say. By openly showing the world they like children and children like them they legitimise their frame. ‘It is normal for me to kiss little children and play silly games with them’ is what they say.

    I think the story so far is just a bunch of random clues, nothing coherent. Until someone blows it open with a smoking gun we’ll never really know what’s going on. A wacky conspiracy theory is all.

    Alfred Woenselaer

    December 5, 2016 at 4:53 pm

    • ” Bill has a bastard black son.”

      I think that one is true. The kid looks an awful lot like his baby Daddy.


      December 5, 2016 at 11:02 pm

      • People have bastard kids all the time. WJC liked to have sex. Believable.

        Pizza joint site of hugest pedophilia/devil-worshiping cult? Not believable.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 5, 2016 at 11:13 pm

      • I agree w/you about the devil worshiping cult aspect, Lion. But Alephantis is probably more into “chicken” than “Pizza” if you get my drift.


        December 6, 2016 at 12:22 pm

      • Gay sex between consenting adults is not illegal.

        The MSM is not willing to look into whether the gay community is involved in illegal types of gay sex, like prostitution or when one of the sex partners is under the age of consent, because gays are a protected minority and no evil is ever attributed to them.

        If any of the emails are talking about gay sex, then it’s a dead end as far as getting the MSM interested in it.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 6, 2016 at 12:27 pm

  20. “if something sounds too good to be true, then it’s not true”

    Probably not true. Something that sounds too good to be true occasionally is true.


    December 5, 2016 at 5:32 pm

  21. When I watched the videos that The Philosopher posted on this site I had that kind of spooked feeling that you get when someone is telling you a ghost story that part of you can’t help wanting to believe. I had to leave it a day and come back and think about it again because I was aware that on some level I wanted to believe it was true (which is awful because it’s not a good thing to want to have happened, and just goes to show how negative poltical partisanship can be).

    I think these kind of conspiracy theories tap into the supersitious, religious part of your brain. It certainly reminded me of when I was a Christian child and my parents were telling me some story they’d heard at church about someone who’d been possessed by demons or something. It’s wanting to believe that there are dark and mysterious forces out there, engaged in some unseen battle of which you are are only dimly aware as a pawn.

    But the story isn’t true. Come on. There are no secret tunnels under pizza shops. Pizza shop owners have not secretly used pedo symbols in their logos so that passing child molesters can go in and ask for a pizza and then ask for a ‘side order of hot dogs’ with a wink. I just don’t believe it can work like that. The only reason it seems like they were talking in a sexual secret code is because it was presented as such in a documentary about a child sex ring.

    Some people have mentioned British high-ranking pedo rings, but in fact in spite of the media-fuelled mania nothing has really been turned up, and the government enquiry has turned into a fiasco. If pizzagate is like anything British it is probably the Orkney Island satanic abuse scandal where social workers ended up taking loads of kids into care on the basis of a crazy Salem Witch Trials type hysteria that suddenly blew up on the island.

    prolier than thou

    December 5, 2016 at 6:07 pm

  22. I agree with (1) and in fact I think this is the strongest argument against #pizzagate. Strongly disagree with (2) and (3) though.

    2): I have no idea what the odds are, but this sort of thing happens all the time. Not surprising at all.

    3) : Why so open about it? Because it’s “high-level insiders” of a secret society signaling superiority to “low-level insiders” in ways that are designed to be as non-alarming to complete outsiders as possible. Belonging to a secret society is a positional good, and those societies are highly hierarchical, with layered and ever-changing secret handshakes in order to prevent too easy entry to “unworthy” or “unvetted” individuals. But circle 9 insiders still like to show off to circle 3 insiders, in ways that will be understood by insiders but not by the general public.


    December 5, 2016 at 6:10 pm

  23. you guys believe what you want to believe too much. pizzagate was always dumb, though john podesta himself might be a sicko.

    james n.s.w

    December 5, 2016 at 6:15 pm

  24. I’m not surprised in the least that people who have so numbed themselves to any morality- from the destruction of the institution of marriage the bedrock of Western Civilization, to the genocide of abortion- would have any concern or qualms about whatever these people are engaged in.

    LOTB is correct in saying that it doesn’t mean anything because even if it were 100% true- and it’s probably close to that- what difference in this degraded world could it possibly make?

    The real question is what purpose does a post like this even serve? As a check on dissent from our collective depravity? As a virtue signal to our betters? Why even bother. If all the details revealed thus far add up to nothing, what harm could ten thousand individuals making up something out of it cause? If it’s nonsense, so is any commentary relating to it.

    This world has become a snake eating it’s own tail.

    hardscrabble farmer

    December 5, 2016 at 6:26 pm

  25. These people have no morality, no fear of G-d. They are capable of anything. I can totally beleive it. It’s very likely. They are the bottom of the barrel.


    December 5, 2016 at 7:32 pm

    • If you’re a product of the 1960s counterculture (like Alefantis and Podesta), you don’t need Plato, Aristotle, Kant, Hume, Schopenhauer, and Kierkegaard. They’re just a bunch of old-fashioned, uptight, irrelevant dead guys. Hip people live by the motto: “If it feels good, do it.”

      Lewis Medlock

      December 6, 2016 at 4:51 pm

  26. The owner of Comet Pizza, James Alefantis, has the most disturbing instagram account I have ever seen. The pictures of children, and the comments within, are beyond bizarre. J’ aime Les Enfantes in French means “I love children”. The artwork in his shop is satanic. The circumstantial evidence is insane. Whether he is actually a pedophile or not, there is no question that he is a very sick man. The fact that he and his cohorts are so interconnected with the power centers of the left wing establishment demands concern and further investigation.


    December 5, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    • second that. it’s possible that elements of this story are true without the full blown conspiracy. Alefantis could easily be a pedophile and he uses his associations with politicians as a cover. bernie madoff routinely advised the SEC before his fraud was uncovered. the truly smart criminals know the line is blurred when you can compromise the authorities.

      with the concept of “physiognomy is real” watch any video interview of tony podesta and he does look creepy and it’s pretty sick to think he would have all that art up and force politicians to attend parties and fundraisers where it is hanging. just one of many ways the washington elite is totally out of touch. he must get a kick out of that.


      December 5, 2016 at 11:58 pm

  27. Philosopher,

    The reddit site removed the thread, but PizzaGate migrated here:

    Here is some text. They contain links.

    1) John Podesta likes artwork portraying cannibalism, this one is in his officeImgur Album. John Podesta’s brother, Tony Podesta’s affinity for provacative art which includes Arch of Hysteria which represents pain and resembles Jeffery Dhamer’s victim’s pose. Tony Podesta is a lobbyist in Washington, and is an employee of the Saudis who also have issues with Child Trafficking. The Podestas seem to be a fan of Katy Grannan’s and biljana djurdjevic’s artwork which often portrays [naked teenagers] ( and child abuse.

    2) Comet ping’s owner, James AlefantisJPG AKA Jimmy Comet posting disturbing pictures on his instagram such as a child taped to a ping pong tablePNG, Joking about a kill room, child with money in their mouthPNG , baby doll for sale with comments saying it’s overpricedPNG. A man wearing an “Infant Lover” t-shirtPNG.


    December 5, 2016 at 9:44 pm

  28. Dear Lion:

    I put this to you: *if* Pizzagate turns out to be true, contrary to all your current reasoning, *then* you should consider the idea that perhaps the demonic is real after all.

    a long-time reader

    Samson J.

    December 5, 2016 at 10:11 pm

  29. OT: Important recount site:

    UPDATE: THE PENNSYLVANIA ELECTION RETURNS WEB SITE HAS BEEN SCRUBBED FROM GOOGLE AS IF IT NEVER EXISTED AT ALL. This would be done if “they” did not want people to be able to watch the steal update while in progress. Let’s hope to God that is not what it is.

    Massive voye fraud in Nevada:


    December 5, 2016 at 10:51 pm

  30. Isn’t that nice of Joe Biden to include a pizza symbol on his friendship bracelet?

    Isn’t it amazing what kind of smooth talker Joe Biden is with the ladies?


    December 6, 2016 at 3:24 pm


    Good article at Unz Review


    December 6, 2016 at 4:55 pm

    • More like pedophile Catholic priests in Boston, and not like #pizzagate.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 6, 2016 at 6:01 pm

    • I’m not sure what you mean by ‘coverup’ but certainly no-one should assume that because things like this were going on at a number of football clubs for many years there HAS to have been some over-arching group or ring controlling and co-ordinating their actions.

      Recent British attitudes to sex and especially child molestation seem so strange to modern ears that I could well imagine that foreign or younger observers who didn’t live through this era might well conclude that there must be more to it than there probably was.But the past really is another country, and strange though it may sound I have heard numerous anecdotes from family and friends along with stuff I’ve read about in British media that confirm that until quite recently children who complained about such things–even to their own parents–would often have been ignored or even told to stop complaining, and treated as if their allegations were no big deal even if they were true. Perhaps in some upper class/boarding school environments such behaviour had become quite common, and perhaps British attitudes to sex were such that people had a rather uncomprehending and dangerously naive attitude to the effects sex can have on people, especially children. There was also that stoical attitude of ‘not making a fuss’ which ran deep in all levels of society. But the fact is that it’s quite possible in cases like this that there was no ‘cover up’ as such. Perverts simply saw an opening in a profession that they knew would give then access to children and the cultural climate would work towards keeping their activites quiet without the need for any sinister Whitehall agents or police covering for them.

      prolier than thou

      December 6, 2016 at 6:21 pm

      • “Perverts simply saw an opening in a profession that they knew would give then access to children … ”

        Exactly, pedophiles become teachers, sports coaches, priests, not government/politics types.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 6, 2016 at 8:14 pm

      • “would often have been ignored or even told to stop complaining, and treated as if their allegations were no big deal even if they were true.”

        I call that a cover up. There’s no central “Pedo-intern” authority, but when you’re told to STFU, that’s a cover up.


        December 7, 2016 at 12:15 pm

      • The UK appears to be the epicenter of upper class pedophilia. Almost all of these VIP pedophile rings have some connection to that vile and disgusting country.


        December 8, 2016 at 7:30 am

  32. Sorry, I have my doubts ‘chicken’ and ‘pasta’ mean little boys and girls. Probably they were talking about chicken and pasta. Secret plots to increase immigration and flood the country with foreigners so the Democrats win elections, I will believe. That these guys are all involved in a secret pedophile ring…naah.


    December 6, 2016 at 6:13 pm

    • SFG,

      This is a comment I got from Vox Day’s site. I think it is fairly apt.

      Whenever I start doubting pizzagate, I come back to two rather ordinary items: exotic food and power.

      Exotic food: we’ve all heard of wagu beef, beluga caviar, certain types of truffles — these can cost hundreds of dollars per ounce. But who ever heard of spending tens of thousands of dollars on *pizza* and *hotdogs*?

      Power: we’ve all heard about and read some of those most powerful lists, and even if each name isn’t familiar, their placement on the list makes sense. But please explain to me why the
      owner of a pizzeria would be named 49/50 of DC’s most powerful people, surpassing judges, politicians and financiers?

      Grotesque art and weird symbols can be a step too far for most people, but food and power are very basic concepts that all of us understand.


      December 7, 2016 at 5:29 am

  33. […] of pizzagate. Lion of the blogosphere gives a good rundown of the case against pizzagate in #Pizzagate nonsense. He makes his case in 3 arguments. Below my case for the […]

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