Lion of the Blogosphere

Are non-citizens voting in elections?

I read the Harvard article debunking the study that alleges that non-citizens voted based on an analysis of the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, and sadly I agree 100% with the debunking.

However, this doesn’t prove one way or another about whether non-citizens have illegally voted in elections, it just demonstrates that you can’t find proof of that in an official study. Most people who commit crimes are smart enough not to admit it on a survey (although given how many idiots post evidence of their crimes on social media, we can’t say that all people are that smart), and furthermore, most illegal immigrants don’t take surveys. If they are “undocumented” than the survey-takers don’t know they exist, and even if their existence is known, most illegal immigrants are wary of participating in anything that looks official because they believe that by keeping away from such things they minimize their chances of being caught and deported. Even though under the Obama administration, hardly anyone in that type of situation was deported, most illegals don’t believe it could really be true that no one will deport them.

The only way to really know if non-citizens have voted is for the type of government investigation called for by Donald Trump. And the reason why liberals are so outraged by the idea of such an investigation is because, deep down, they fear that the investigation will find out that illegal immigrants and others who aren’t allowed to vote really did vote, just as Donald Trump alleges, and the legal crackdown in response will mean fewer votes for Democrats in future elections, as well as a gloating Donald Trump who will claim victory even if the actual number of illegal votes is an order of magnitude less than 3 million.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

January 28, 2017 at EST pm

Posted in Politics

75 Responses

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  1. You go to the DMV, you fill out a standard form to register to vote. You check over 18 and you are a U.S. citizen, even if you’re not a U.S. citizen. There is absolutely no verification done to ensure that someone is actually a citizen. In this case, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Not only that, but it is actually illegal for the federal government to require proof of citizenship to vote if the state uses the standard “federal form.”

    So the question is, how can you detect whether people who are not citizens have voted? You can’t do it with a survey. You have to take a database of people who are known non-citizens and compare against the voting rolls in each state on state-by-state basis.

    ASF

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • There will never be a data base of non-citizens in the USA illegally. Data bases of names are not useful, since many people have the same name. Names and addresses might be more useful, but people move all the time.

      The USA could create some kind of national citizen ID card, but conservatives have long resisted national ID cards in the past.

      mikeca

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • It’s obvious from your comment that you opposes a national ID card. Yet you claim conservatives are the reason we don’t have one. You lefties are born deceivers.

        Yeah, conservatives used to oppose national ID cards. But so did everyone else. A survey by Wirthlin at the time Reagan considered the idea showed 68% of the public opposed (and 29% in favored) a national ID card. Most respondents didn’t think it would stop illegals and could threaten freedom. The results were consistent across demographic both politically and ethnically. There were, however, some differences. There was greater opposition among those with higher incomes and education. And there was greater support among older people and Southerners.

        I believe a national ID card would have much greater support today since illegal immigration is a much bigger problem. And people have become a lot more used to having their information stored in databases. So it’s not as big of a deal as it used to be.

        I strongly support a mandatory national ID card linked to a secure database with biometric data. Such a card should be required to drive, vote, work, go to school, buy/rent, get a loan, get utilities including phone or receive government benefits. That would make it impossible for illegals or criminals to live undetected.

        destructure

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Not a full list, but they already have the daca / dapa applications. It’d be simple enough to check those names / addresses against voting records.

        Thagomizer

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • “The USA could create some kind of national citizen ID card, but conservatives have long resisted national ID cards in the past.”

        Destructure beat me to it. Everyone used to resist national ID cards. Everyone used to resist enshrining English as the official legal national language of the US. Everyone used to be in favor of birthright citizenship.

        That’s because we used to have a national consensus where “everyone” more or less believed the same things. Mike, stop it, OK?

        You’d be on firmer ground if you criticized the right as being traditionally against worker’s rights, back when the country was overwhelmingly white. Now that the labor movement is on its last legs and the country is approaching the non-white tipping point, the alt-right is becoming pro-labor. That’s a form of hypocrisy. Why don’t you go there instead?

        gothamette

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • I’ve always been in favor of the card and called out libertarians for being stupid.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • I agree with destructure. I used to think a national ID was an unnecessary and useless. But the time has come. The fact is that anybody who isn’t going to extraordinary lengths to maintain privacy is in “the system” to a large extent. Financial and credit data, online purchases, drivers’ license info, etc. is all out there. The people who are benefiting most from the current hodge-podge system are fraudsters.

        The left is concerned about keeping people from voting, but there is also the danger from people losing faith in election results. Whether or not people are actually fraudulently voting is not the concern, the widespread perception that our elections are broken is enough to warrant action.

        steve@steve.com

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • I’ve always been in favor of the card and called out libertarians for being stupid.

        Corporate-funded libertarian orgs push nonsensical conspiracy theories to their members because they want to block anything that might reduce illegal immigration. Over in Britain anti-Brexit people in the MSM are pushing hard complete nonsense about how a US-UK trade agreement would involve selling the NHS to Trump or something.

        snorlaxwp

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • John Fund seems to be the expert in research on voter fraud. He has given a good interview with Fox. http://video.foxnews.com/v/5301303735001/?#sp=show-clips

        It might not be possible yet to match up exactly voter registration lists with the citizenry, although with progress on big data that day can’t be far off. But given the will, it would be possible to make the chance of detection of voter fraud sufficiently great as to be a strong deterrence. This issue is only going to grow in importance as the minority share of the population increases. We have discovered that ourselves in the UK, with strong evidence of voter fraud amongst muslim communities (in addition of course to enormous criminality directed against the indigenous population).

        The lioncub

        January 29, 2017 at EST am

      • Now that the labor movement is on its last legs and the country is approaching the non-white tipping point, the alt-right is becoming pro-labor. That’s a form of hypocrisy. Why don’t you go there instead?

        Priorities change with circumstances. That’s not hypocrisy but pragmatism, Ending open borders, outsourcing and an $800 Billion trade deficit is more important than arguing over right to work vs closed shop.

        destructure

        January 29, 2017 at EST pm

  2. Which study are we talking about here (too lazy to click on the link). There was a study done a couple of years ago that said that up to 12% of non-citizens voted in Presidential elecitons, although they later revised that number down to half of that.

    There was a more recent study saying that up to 900,000 non citizens voted in this past election.

    I think it is possible that between non-citizens and voter fraud that Hillary only won by a million and a half votes, instead of by 2.7 million.

    Otis the Sweaty

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • The 900,000 number is a crude estimate that anyone could calculate from spitballing. This is being used to discredit Trump, but having roughly 1/100 votes cast by non-citizens is already absurdly high. That’s not even counting fraudulent votes, which is an additional factor.

      Panther of the Blogocube

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Aren’t tgere usually about 125 million vktes cast in a presidential election? So then 900k wouldn’t bee 1 in 100. Just sayin’.

        Harvard Hates America

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Being pedantic more effective if you actually demonstrate reading comprehension simultaneously.

        Panther of the Blogocube

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  3. NeoGaf not taking Trump’s refugee EO well: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1338575

    Otis the Sweaty

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  4. Some professor at Old Dominion University in Virginia is claiming 800,000 non citizens voted for Hillary. Haven’t looked at it very closely, and ODU ain’t Princeton, but would it surprise anyone if he was right?

    Two in the Bush

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • He is saying Hillary got over 800,000 votes with another 100,000 going to Trump, so about a million. The other study concluded that up to 6% of non-citizens voted, which would be 1.2 million. Very close numbers.

      Hillary wins by 2.7 million. Minus a net .7 million from non-citizens. Minus another million from voter fraud. Minus anothe .8 million from the inexplicable collapse in Republican turnout in CA. All of a sudden Hillary has only won the popular vote by .2 million.

      Let’s investigate this and see if there is anything to it.

      Otis the Sweaty

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  5. Of course. If they sincerely believed that there wasn’t a problem with illegal votes, they would gleefully challenge Trump to investigate to his heart’s content.

    sabril

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  6. A lot of illegal Chinese support Trump. There are a lot of illegal Irish in the US too. And they are more resourceful and likely to vote than illiterate Guatemalans. Careful what you look for.

    Peter Akuleyev

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • Not many Whites are in Amwerica illegally.

      This being said, what % of the American population has expired visas?

      It’s hard to fathom that overnight trespassers from Mexico are registering at the voting office. Perhaps, the election boards should be held accountable for accepting unacceptable IDs during election day, which constitutes voter fraud.

      JS

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  7. I don’t think voter fraud is a massive occurrence but it does happen.

    Democrats say voter ID rules hurt poorer marginalized Americans with IDs.

    But who are these poor US citizens who don’t have passport, drivers license, state ID, medicare card, medicaid card, food stamp card, bank statement, or utility bill? I would like the media to produce an example of someone who is actually prevented from voting for this reason.

    Jimi

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  8. Before the civil rights acts of the 1960s, blacks were routinely refused admission to hospitals in many part of the South for normal births. As a result in the South many black children were born at home, frequently with the help of mid-wives. These births were seldom registered so many older blacks simply do not have state birth certificates. One of the main points of voter ID and proof of citizenship laws is to make it much harder for them to vote.

    The US government does not really keep official records of citizenship.. The closest they come is the SS data base, but it is not accurate. I know this because a friend who reached 65 recently discovered that the SS data base still showed him as a non-citizen in the US on a visa. That was his status when his social security number was first issued, but he had become a naturalized citizen 30 years ago. The SS office told him the SS data bases were not automatically updated when the immigration department granted him citizenship. He had to bring the naturalization documents to the SS office to register for medicare.

    The current claims are totally ridiculous. There were 14 million votes for president in California. I have seen claims that there were 3 million illegal voters in California alone. That would imply that 1 in 5 voters in California was illegal. If that were the case you should be able to find many examples by spot checking 100 voters in some heavily Hispanic areas.

    There are only about 22 million non-citizen immigrants (both legal and illegal) currently in the USA. If 3 to 5 million of them voted for president you should be able to easily find thousands of them without a big investigation.

    You seriously have to wonder about the competence of a President making this kind of accusation. It is obvious Trump just said this because he lost the popular vote by 3 million votes and his ego cannot stand that. Only Trump would question the integrity of an election he won.

    I hope Mike Pence and his staff are studying section 4 of the 25th amendment.

    mikeca

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • Doesn’t matter how they were born, you can’t have a job, or receive government benefits, without official ID. So I don’t believe that these ID-less people exist.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • It’s ok, mikeca gets paid regardless of whether what he’s posting is even remotely plausible.

        Panther of the Blogocube

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • I once worked for a company where the HR folks accepted any photo ID for the I-9 application. Granted, the type of work required English fluency and a high school diploma, so we were unlikely to hire anyone who was considered an illegal from Mexico.

        JS

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • People born in the USA that do not have birth certificates can obtains social security numbers and benefits provided they can show an alternate, non-government record, such as a record of baptism in a church.

        The biggest problem for people that have birth certificates is that the name on the birth certificate does not match the name on their drivers license. This is common for married women that took their husband’s last name. They then have to obtain a copy of their marriage license. If they have been married several times, they need to obtain copies of all their marriage licenses. While they may still have a copy of their birth certificate, many people do not hold onto an official copy of their marriage license after a divorce.

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • It’s ok, mikeca gets paid regardless of whether what he’s posting is even remotely plausible.

        Are you getting paid to post these content free comments here?

        I post here because I think it is good that you get exposed to rational mainstream information and arguments that never penetrate your information bubble.

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • If there any any ID-less Americans, I bet they are probably anti-government, off the grid Right wing white men who don’t want to vote anyway.

        Jimi

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • I’m still waiting to see rational mainstream information, rather than odious bullshit right off of D talking points. Maybe you can provide some of that instead of speculative stories about mythical characters with the superpower of having gone completely under the radar of modern society with regards to SSN, Drivers License, State ID, Insurance, CC, etc.

        Panther of the Blogocube

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • mikeca earlier tried to claim that conservatives were the reason we didn’t have a national ID card. Now he’s trying to blame blacks for not having birth certificates. He’s a typical liberal who makes stuff up and blames others to justify what he himself wants.

        destructure

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • I don’t think MikeCa is a paid shill, but he may as well be one for all the Leftist talking points he spews. I too would like to see credible evidence that there is a significant number of American born people who are unable to obtain a government-issued ID because their births were not recorded.

        If this really were a problem, you would think the Left would be screaming for these people to be accommodated. There would be regular news stories about these legions of people who are denied social security, driver licenses, etc. due to race discrimination in the Jim Crow era.

        But for some strange reason, the Left doesn’t care at all about whether these legions of people can work, collect unemployment, or drive. The only care is that they be permitted to vote.

        sabril

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • “I hope Mike Pence and his staff are studying section 4 of the 25th amendment”

      You hope that there will be a civil war which your side will undoubtably lose and be exterminated forever? I feel the same way.

      Otis the Sweaty

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • The 25th amendment is part of the constitution. Section 4 was written specifically to allow a president who had shown himself to be incompetent in office to be removed. It has nothing to do with civil war.

        Are you advocating overthrow of the government if Trump is legally removed from office by impeachment or the 25th amendment?

        18 U.S. Code § 2385 – Advocating overthrow of Government

        Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

        Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

        Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

        Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • “Are you advocating overthrow of the government if Trump is legally removed from office by impeachment or the 25th amendment?”

        I am not only advocating it, I am confident it would happen. Trump has the support of over 80% of the nation’s rank and file law enforcement. He has the support of over 60% of the rank and file US military. He has the support of about 60% of the nation’s whites. The United States food and water sources are virtually all in blood red districts. The nation’s Trump supporters are vastly tougher, vastly better armed, vastly more cohesive and vastly more willing to sacrifice than the pussies who oppose Trump.

        A civil war would be a godsend to us reactionaries because it would allow us in one fell swoop to completely exterminate the left instead of doing it piece by piece like we are doing now.

        Otis the Sweaty

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Mikeca brings up an interesting point, but he’s exaggerating the problem and racializing it. Lack of birth documentation was a big problem in the immediate post-war era. And it was a problem for anyone born in a rural area, not just blacks. My father didn’t know his own birthday, because he was born at home in a rural area. I don’t know when he got a birth certificate, to tell you the truth. When he was drafted? I don’t know.

        http://cliotropic.org/blog/talks/undocumented-citizens-aha-2010/

        Nice job bringing up the bad old days of Jim Crow. It’s over, Mike. AAs get born in the hospital, just like white folks, and their births are recorded just like white folks, and they know how to get to the DMV, just like white folks. It’s 2017.

        gothamette

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • “A civil war would be a godsend to us reactionaries because it would allow us in one fell swoop to completely exterminate the left instead of doing it piece by piece like we are doing now.”

        And now we know the truth. Some Trump supporters want a redo on the Civil War.

        Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out …

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • > These births were seldom registered so many older blacks simply do not have state birth certificates

      Then how do they collect their food stamps, medicaid, section 8, and social security? These people have ID of some sort. It would be trivial to use whatever kind of ID they have to issue them voting IDs.

      Spoons

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • As I pointed out above, if a person has no birth certificate, they can use alternate, non-government forms of identification, such as church baptism records, to obtain a SS number and benefits. State voter ID laws specifically exclude those forms of ID to exclude blacks that did not get birth certificates because of segregation.

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • @spoons,

        They collect benefits because they are like all other Americans. They get squirted in a hospital and registered just like any other American. The problem mikeca referred to was a general one of most Americans born before WWII. Enough. This is troll stuff.

        gothamette

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • There are only about 22 million non-citizen immigrants (both legal and illegal)

      Heh, heh. At least 30-40 million just for the illegals.

      Andrew E.

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Indeed, no way only 22 million for both legal and illegal. There are 13 million green card holders and 1 million student visas and a few million [not sure the exact number] worker visas (the students and workers technically not immigrants) plus who knows how many illegal aliens (since they are “undocumented” and therefore not counted).

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • According to the Migration Policy Institute (MPI) there were 42.4 million immigrants in the US in 2014. Of these about 20 million were naturalized US citizens. This leaves 22.4 million non-citizen immigrants. This estimate includes illegal immigrants.

        The Department of Homeland Security estimated there were 11.4 million illegal immigrants in the US in 2012. MPI estimates there has been little change in this number since.

        It is true that no one can be sure about this number, but about 65% of Hispanics in the USA are US citizens. Most of Hispanics you see on the street and in stores are US citizens. The guys standing in the Home Depot parking lot looking for work are the illegals.

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • They’re not counting H-1, H-2, L-1, J-1, J-2, F-1, F-2 etc as immigrants because they are not permanent visas. That adds several million. Plus illegal “immigrants” are undercounted.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • “They’re not counting H-1, H-2, L-1, J-1, J-2, F-1, F-2 etc as immigrants ..”

        This is probably true, but even it the you count them you only get 25 million non-citizens. If you claim illegals are extremely under counted, then you could claim 30 million total non-citizens. This still means 3 to 5 million votes by non-citizens would mean 10-17% of all non-citizens voted. That should be easily detectable. I have not seen a report of a single non-citizen voting. There might be a few hundred cases without anyone getting caught, but no way could 15% of non-citizens vote and no one get caught.

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • I don’t believe that Trump will find 3 million illegal votes. He could find 300,000 illegal votes.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • The guys standing in the Home Depot parking lot looking for work are the illegals.

        Back in October I walked into the bagel place down the block from me in Manhattan on a Saturday morning and this middle-aged short Hispanic guy behind the counter who I’d seen a dozen times before sees me and my hat and suddenly gets the fear of God in his expression. I wondered if the fear was for just him or his whole family. Anyway, SWPLs in NYC are going to start having to leave their apartments soon to eat restaurant food, and it will probably start costing more too. Good.

        Andrew E.

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • The exercise to walk across the street top pick up the food themselves will do them good, not only for the exercise, but for the moral reasons of doing something for themselves instead of having a poor person do it for them.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Oh, I was wearing my Trump hat that day. That was also the day I got a really nasty expression from a typical liberal white woman in her late 20’s as I waited for my bacon egg and cheese sandwich.

        Andrew E.

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Andrew: was the liberal white woman hot? I have noticed that white women go bad more rapidly than the women of any other race. And I say this as a proponent of white women.

        Otis the Sweaty

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • “I don’t believe that Trump will find 3 million illegal votes. He could find 300,000 illegal votes.”

        I doubt you could find more than a few thousand.

        There was a case 10 or 20 years ago in California of a Hispanic voter registration group that incorrectly thought they could register non-citizens if they had already passed the US Citizenship test and would be sworn in as citizens before the election. This is not correct. You need to wait until you are sworn in as a citizen to register. There were a few hundred votes cast by people illegally registered before they were citizens as a result.

        How would you undertake such an “investigation”. The government has no data base of citizens to check voters against. The closest thing is the SS data base, but as I indicated earlier the information in that data base about citizenship is frequently inaccurate for naturalized citizens. As far as I know, no states requires you to give your SS number to register to vote. This would make it difficult to check names of voters against the SS data base, since so many people have the same name and addresses may not be current in SS data base.

        The only way to do such an investigation is to start trying to check every voter against the SS data base and with the INS if that data base shows they are non-citizens. The INS and SS do not have the resources to undertake such an investigation. The INS use to be a record keeping joke with everything in paper records. Since 9/11 INS now has electronic records, but I doubt they have electronic version of old records. (Before 9/11 the INS collected i-90 forms from people leaving the US, but had no way of matching them up with I-90 forms of people who entered the US, so they had no idea who overstayed their visa.)

        You can find lots of cases of voter registration fraud, millions of dead people still on the voter roles, and people registered to vote in more than one state. Did you know that Jared Kushner, Sean Spicer, Stephen Bannon and Tiffany Trump are all register to vote in two states? Maybe we need an investigation of voter fraud in the Trump administration itself?

        There are millions of dead people on the voter roles because states don’t have the resources or a method of removing them. Anyone who has ever moved between states has probably been registered in more than one state. As far as I know we don’t have a problem with zombie voting aside from the 100,000 absentee ballots postmarked from Russia (I just make that up, but you saw it on the internet so it must be true).

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • “Did you know that Jared Kushner, Sean Spicer, Stephen Bannon and Tiffany Trump are all register to vote in two states?”

        I’ve moved interstate also, I’m not stupid.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • “I’ve moved interstate also, I’m not stupid.”

        I’m sorry, I did not mean to imply you were.

        mikeca

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • Andrew: was the liberal white woman hot?

        Don’t remember. So probably meh. Hot women don’t get worked up over politics. They get plenty of male attention and can get high quality men to make long-term commitments. What do they need politics for? It’s the average women to suffer from all the lies of feminism and liberalism, necessitating frequent bitter bitch marches.

        Andrew E.

        January 29, 2017 at EST am

      • A pizzeria that I used to frequent in Manhattan, which serves gluten free, artisanal pizza, was employing a few White college students to make pizza, but they all quit, and the owner hired a few Mexicans as a replacement. The only thing I can infer from this, is that the wages were too low and most owners don’t want to pay them with a higher wage.

        JS

        January 29, 2017 at EST pm

  9. OT LA Times 01/28/17 – Californians compete for a rare prize: a blue-collar union job paying up to $200,000

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-port-lottery-20170127-htmlstory.html#nt=oft09a-7gp1

    If Cynthia Byington wins her version of the lottery, she will probably have to wait a decade to claim her prize. But Byington doesn’t mind, because the reward is a shot at one of the rarest lifelines left for working-class Americans: a unionized blue-collar job.

    In February, for the first time in over a decade, the International Longshore and Warehouse Union will raffle off thousands of part-time gigs working at Los Angeles-area ports. The slots don’t come with benefits or steady hours. But eventually, after putting in years at the docks, some of those part-timers may earn the chance to become unionized longshoremen, who can make as much as $200,000 per year…

    “You get full benefits your entire life. Even if it’s not ‘til I turn 90, it’s worth it,” Byington, 53, said.

    Casual longshoremen who showed up for shifts earned less than $31,000 on average in 2016. Full-time union members get paid $161,000 on average. The 2,400 names drawn in the raffle will become “casual” longshoremen.

    Although they perform the same work as union members — loading thousands of containers on and off massive cargo ships to keep the ports running on time — they work far fewer hours. And the wait to receive full union benefits can stretch over a decade.

    The average casual worker who showed up for weekly shifts earned nearly $31,000 in 2016, according to data from the Pacific Maritime Assn., which represents the shipping companies and terminal operators that employ the dockworkers. Full-time union members get paid $161,000 on average, but those with seniority can earn tens of thousands more. Hundreds of thousands are expected to have applied for the new casual slots…The massive interest in the longshoremen’s lottery is a sign of just how desperate Americans are to gain even the most tenuous ground toward a stable, high-paying career working with their hands.

    “It says a lot about the state of our current labor market,” said Ken Jacobs, chairman of the UC Berkeley Labor Center. “There are a dwindling number of blue-collar union jobs where people with just a high school education can make a good living.”

    Fewer than 14% of workers in manufacturing, construction and trucking belonged to a union in 2015, down from nearly 40% in 1973…

    Mario Huerta says he has been working part time for 10 years at the docks, desperately trying to amass enough experience to become a union longshoreman. Huerta and other casuals show up around 6 a.m. at a dingy dispatch hall and wait to hear if their number gets called for one of three shifts at the port. If they don’t get called up in the morning, they can return around 4 in the afternoon for the next round of work opportunities. On good weeks, a part-timer will manage to nab two to three eight-hour shifts, casuals said…The casuals all cobble together odd jobs on days they can’t find work at the docks, including gigs in construction, landscaping and as security guards…

    E. Rekshun

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  10. When I was in my late teens, a couple of friends and I got fake, laminated photo IDs from a mall kiosk and used them to order liquor at a popular Chinese restaurant and nightclub. The IDs wouldn’t work anywhere else. When I turned 21, my 18 y/o brother went to the DMV pretending to be me and got a drivers license in my name w/ his picture on it.

    E. Rekshun

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  11. I don’t find it unreasonable to think 1-2% of votes were illegal considering how easy it is to do. Most states don’t require ID or even check for voter fraud. And most states don’t clear the voter rolls for years after someone moves or dies. I suspect there are millions of unused ballots ripe for abuse.

    destructure

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  12. I suspect the real voter fraud is in urban areas where Democrats fill in ballots on behalf of registered voters who don’t bother to actually vote. It wouldn’t be as easy to sign in and vote for other people if ID was required.

    Another possibility is voter ID laws make get out the vote operations harder. On election day Democrats rent out buses and pick up crowds up people to drive to the polling centers. A lot of people walk around without any ID on them and wouldn’t be able to vote.

    Jimi

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • Project Veritas had a woman in a burka show up at a Manhattan precinct and say she was Huma Abadin. They gave her her ballot and she voted with it.

      B.T.D.T.

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • You can’t be serious. If yes, I’ll try my best to terminate my American citizenship. The country is one effing-laughing stock.

        JS

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  13. Trump’s genius is that he is forcing an investigation that the Dems previously wanted to avoid. There won’t be nearly as many non citizens voting as he claims, but it won’t matter. Even if it’s only 100,000 over the last few election cycles it will be enough ammunition to push for voter Id laws. Voter Id laws could entrench Republican dominance for another generation. When coupled with two or three more conservative Supreme Court justices we are talking more like fifty years. exciting times.

    B.T.D.T.

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • BTDT is correct. “There won’t be nearly as many non citizens voting as he claims, but it won’t matter. Even if it’s only 100,000 over the last few election cycles it will be enough ammunition to push for voter Id laws.”

      Dems know this which is why they oppose it, not because they know they have a great scam going that they don’t want exposed.

      I wish all Americans could trust our elections and would support stronger voter ID laws that are not disguised voter suppression. To me, this would require two things.
      1. Compliance assistance to inform citizens about the new regulations and help them to meet the new requirements. Governments provide this assistance to businesses to meet new regulations. Why shouldn’t they do it for voters? – unless the regulations are designed to make it harder for certain people to vote.
      2. Better control of electronic voting machines, which would require a conspiracy of a much smaller number of people to pull off fraud than voter fraud would. Required paper ballots that can be audited and make auditing easier.

      Otherwise I will assume the intention is voter suppression, as several commenters on this blog have explicitly supported.

      Aric

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • It’s not so difficult to take an ID to vote. I never leave home without my driver’s license.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  14. The heavy voter fraud involves absentee ballots.

    E. Rekshun

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

    • Throwing the absentee ballots out? I thought early voting and absentee ballots work heavily in favor of republicans.

      bobbybobbob

      January 28, 2017 at EST pm

      • They always did through ~15 years ago, but they are now even more heavily Democrat. (Which is in itself strong circumstantial evidence of fraud).

        snorlaxwp

        January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  15. This refugee ban has hit the left way harder than I expected it to. I figured they would be more upset about the wall and deportations but they are waaaaaaayyyy more upset about this.

    Numerous people on NeoGaf are calling for an assassination of Trump and they are confident that they have the ability to march on Washington and overthrow the Trump administration.

    Otis the Sweaty

    January 28, 2017 at EST pm

  16. There’s a video where obama tells a woman, effectively, that illegals can vote.

    http://www.wnd.com/2016/11/obama-encourages-illegal-aliens-to-vote/

    SJ

    January 29, 2017 at EST am

  17. Trump defeated Clinton in Pennsylvania by about 47,750 votes.

    Clinton defeated Trump in Nevada by about 27,202 votes.

    Trump defeated Clinton in Wisconsin by about 22,000 votes.

    Trump defeated Clinton in Michigan by about 10,700 votes.

    Critics of Trump’s proposal to investigate voter fraud have loudly and repeatedly painted themselves into a corner of late by claiming that voter fraud is virtually nonexistent. This sets a very low hurdle for Trump to overcome. All he needs to do is show that voter fraud was significant. The results of the election show that significance is on the order of tens of thousands. What are the odds that an investigation can scrape together that many?

    Joe

    January 29, 2017 at EST am

    • Anyone who lives in NYC and has a chance to meet a large gathering of Middle American Whites in NYC, will tell that these people are beneath them. Many of them are nice people, but sophisticated Manhattanites will always have a superiority complex over them.

      JS

      January 29, 2017 at EST am

  18. The Harvard paper does nor debunk the study. It tries to explain type 1 and type 2 error. Either the data was considered accurate until the right used it in a nonapproved manner or all the data below a certain incidence is worthless. The poor understanding of statistics is epidemic in journalism, law, and social science. To use the Harvard study at face value Considering there are fewer homosexuals in the population than non-citizens why should one believe that data.

    Regularjoeski

    January 29, 2017 at EST am

  19. Perhaps there will be a clause in the future stating illegals and non-residents can vote, because by law, they are required to pay taxes for any money earned in US soil. The IRS states illegals must pay taxes on all compensation earned in the US and are required to obtain a tax id number if they don’t have a SS# to report their taxes.

    JS

    January 29, 2017 at EST am

  20. Of course illegals are voting! There are easily way over 30,000,000 in this country. The culture tells them they have the right to vote. The LAWS of big states de facto allow and encourage them to vote among several other illegal things both political and economic! No IDs required!

    They are encouraged to enter illegally by the government and the corporations! Their every need is subsidized at the brutal expense of the middle class taxpayer! They are catered too by the culture as heroes and Christ figures!

    The burden of evidence is not to show that they are voting, but to show that they aren’t!

    fakeemail

    January 29, 2017 at EST am

    • Great comment. Exactly right. You’d have to be naive like a child to think they aren’t voting in large numbers, especially in states like New York and California, where they are lionized endlessly, by journalists, politicians, and every manner of public person. It is disgraceful.

      Lowe

      January 29, 2017 at EST pm

      • Well, on the one hand, if you’re illegal, it’s pretty stupid to vote considering your one vote doesn’t count for much and you risk being caught and deported (OK, it may never happen in reality and with Obama not enforcing the immigration laws, but illegals nevertheless didn’t want to risk it), but on the other hand I can see SJW types pushing illegals to vote in order to win votes for their favored Democratic candidates.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 29, 2017 at EST pm


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