Lion of the Blogosphere

Betsy DeVos and higher education

As I’ve said several times in the past, one of the few things that Obama administration did that was really good was cracking down on for-profit school.

A New York Times article speculates that the crackdown will end, and the for-profit schools will be able to go back to ripping off their students and the taxpayers.

Conservatives support for-profit schools because they have been brainwashed into uncritically believing that 100% of the time for-profit=good. But with for-profit schools, all of the profits come from student loans which then go into default and are picked up by the taxpayer. These “schools” unconscionably target students who are too stupid to understand they are being ripped off as well as being too stupid to be college material. The worse sort of value transference.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

February 21, 2017 at 9:56 am

Posted in Education

26 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. Hear, hear. Almost all are open admission. Why should there ever be an open admission collegiate program much less masters and doctorate? If you can’t show academic competitiveness by age 18 you should not enter a cognitive heavy profession or aspire to.

    I’ve read that community colleges exist as a means of moderating expectations. In other words, people go here to discover they aren’t college material. High school should be performing this function.

    Curle

    February 21, 2017 at 10:06 am

    • No, middle school should be performing this function. There are tens if millions that should never cross the threshold of a high school. This is how it was back in the USSR.

      Yakov

      February 21, 2017 at 11:30 am

  2. So stop student loans. I will put on my libertarian hat today and say that in general prohibition (building walls, banning for-profit schools) is not as effective as taking away the market distortions. Stop providing illegals with government benefits, and the numbers will drop more quickly than if you build a wall. Stop giving out easy student loans and for-profit schools will quickly dry up.

    Peter Akuleyev

    February 21, 2017 at 10:21 am

    • Bernie Sanders believes that college education should be free. So you agree with him?

      If not, why do you think that high school should be free but not college, especially of a college degree is what is REALLY needed to succeed in the modern economy?

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      February 21, 2017 at 10:37 am

      • Bernie Sanders is a delusional fool. All this fanfare has gotten into the old slimy guys head.
        I like Betsy Devos. Can’t beleven I am saying that as a Democrat voter. 🙂

        Wt

        February 21, 2017 at 2:13 pm

      • What on earth are you on about? I am saying the exact opposite.

        Peter Akuleyev

        February 21, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    • Forcing *all* schools to issue and hold some fraction of the loan debt on their books is probably a more politically viable tweak. If the degrees are a total rip off and it’s obvious up front that the loans will default, well that scam will unravel quickly. Still leaves space for a profitable school that actually works.

      bobbybobbob

      February 21, 2017 at 2:29 pm

    • This is exactly what Obama admin did. They stopped loans for scam for-profit schools. But since those schools rely on loans for 90% of their profits they went out business quickly.

      Obama admin never actually “banned” any schools.

      Its time to cap and decrease student loans. Too much government money is flowing into the universities via loans.

      Jimi

      February 23, 2017 at 9:23 am

  3. The for profit colleges relied upon the mystique that college was the golden ticket to a good life. I believe that idea has been broken. So it will be much more difficult now for the for profit colleges to continue to draw in students.

    A far better solution would be to revive the old apprenticeship system. Many people would do very well going into a trade and many jobs that nowadays require college used to be learned through apprenticeship. Also instead of leaving school with a mountain of debt the apprentice is paid at least something while they are learning and likely to have a job waiting for them when they are trained. It wasn’t that long ago that most states allowed people to become lawyers through apprenticeship.

    The system is still used in Germany and to a lesser extent in Israel and it does work well.

    jew613

    February 21, 2017 at 12:30 pm

    • These for profits would advertise heavily on the internet fishing for contacts and once they got a contact with access to federal money (GIs were the best targets) they’d hound them relentlessly with hardball tactics, accusing them of short changing themselves and their families, until they caved and enrolled.

      Once they enrolled the schools would do everything possible to keep the ‘students’ doing the bare minimum or less to rationalize continuation of the federal spigot.

      The whole thing was and is an obscene scam. And the whole enterprise premised on the founding principle of blank slate; that all gradations in performance are a function of privilege on one end and oppression on the other.

      Curle

      February 21, 2017 at 9:34 pm

    • For profit schools epitomize the prole image of Americans as being haughty, condescending, and delusional.

      Have any of you attended a selling session from one of those technical schools that pimp out IT vendor certification programs and promise you the world as a high salaried, corporate tech serf? Prole is saying it lightly.

      They hire these pretty leggy women to entice stupid guys to sign the line and take out a non-secured loan, ultimately most of them just default on them, because they could not complete the program and land a job due to their lack of intelligence. Furthermore, IT training should be an apprentice program, not a sit down classroom setting where books and instructors leading to certification is a rudimentary step before landing a entry level job. The entire process is a scam and most students do not complete it successfully.

      Inner city NAMs are their main victims and so are the low down proles who can’t hack it with demanding trades touted by Yakov.

      JS

      February 23, 2017 at 10:20 pm

  4. Not everyone is college material but as Yakov has repeatedly pointed out you don’t need to have a college degree to make money. Yesterday we had the door lock replaced by a locksmith to the tune of nearly $400.00. The person who came out and did the work was a chubby 40 something who turned out to be married to a former student of mine and now is related by marriage to one of my all time favorite kids that I ever had in class. It cost $86.00 bucks to get their truck to our house and then $189.an hour to do the actual work. We had already purchased the new lock for about $100.

    Given a slightly less that top notch IQ or even if you are a genius why waste time going to a university when you could enter some sort of apprentice program at 16and begin earning money?

    Oden's Raven

    February 21, 2017 at 3:19 pm

    • I knew a locksmith and the guy never went to high-school. 10 years ago he used to charge $1,000 to just cut a hole in a door. Those doors were very expensive and he was busy like a bee. Installing a lock was a separate fee. Nice niche, but a regular guy is unlikely to be able to do it though. Just being a good locksmith is a fine living. There is an excellent school in Boston that used to teach it.

      Incidently, did you pay him cash or check?

      Yakov

      February 21, 2017 at 8:55 pm

    • Here is the school. This is training that makes sense.
      http://www.nbss.edu/education/programs/locksmithing/index.aspx

      Yakov

      February 22, 2017 at 7:27 am

      • Re: high dollar Locksmithing. Yakov observes well. However, the key to the higher dollar niche is the door work, not the locksmitthing (though you need that too). The move is to apprentice in a carpenters union, learn to hang doors, and then go out and combine this skill with locksmithing (which you can teach yourself through old correspondence courses and working as a locksmith). It’s a rare combination of skills that pays, and especially so through one’s union affiliation.

        Bob

        February 22, 2017 at 11:22 pm

      • Well, union affiliation will not bring YOU $1,000 per door. So you gotta be on your own. Also, with doors worth North of $10,000, you don’t want to hang them. The door company that only does doors and nothing else would do the installation. The locksmith that I was talking about never went to school for anything, his school years were spent in a Nazi camp. I think that this level of skill depends on your natural ability. Every trade has a level that no teaching or expirience can breach. You gotta have it in you to be able to do it.

        Yakov

        February 23, 2017 at 8:12 am

      • Right, but out on your own with a (even prior) carpenters union affiliation (and training as a door guy through the carpenters union) gets you the referrals on union jobs. The number of guys who can do the door and lock work for the union are few, due to the rarity of the combined skill.

        Even if an average union door guy can hang a double glass and steel door (which is where the money is, I’m not talking about $1K for interior wood core doors), its unlikely that he can also key and install a Medeco high security lock for instance; the latter work being significantly expensive and something the union would want a cut of. This isn’t my conjecture, but from knowing just such an older guy (who was guiding me before I decided against it – which I know somewhat regret). He told me that he could set his prices, though I’m sure that the union would get a cut on union jobs. I think this also got him a lot of non-union work. Going this route puts you on the inside loop for available work in the city, versus a guy who has never had union affiliation or training.

        Bob

        February 23, 2017 at 3:39 pm

      • Yes, this is a good carrier path. I’m a Prima Donna type though and unions are not for me. I don’t realy know anybody who works for a union. The thing is that to be at the top you need talent, not union. Unions, colleges, high-school, professional organizations are for the masses. You want to work directly for people with money and to get paid in a way that enables you to minimize your overhead expense, real $$ wink, wink.

        Yakov

        February 23, 2017 at 10:27 pm

    • My son spent one year at a respectable state school. He didn’t care for it and left. He became a locksmith. He’s a natural schmoozer. He’s very happy and doing very well. No debt!

      These days a lot of what college is and trains people to become is useless. It’s mostly about signaling. In 1950 being educated was educated. Now it’s mostly over indulgence and at least half of it is a form of infotainment. It’s the equivalent of over eating.

      Squish

      February 23, 2017 at 7:33 am

      • ‘He’s a natural schmoozer.’

        This is the key element here. The soft skills. This is what takes you places – making a customer feel good.

        Yakov

        February 23, 2017 at 12:40 pm

      • Again, we have an overabundance of serfs (and this includes the vast legions of college grads trying to embark on a fake career of office politics), where one should separate themselves from the 2 extremes of Prole vs SWPL. The pursuit of cultural/intellectual leisure is the new status marker. For hard skills, one should become a chef and for soft skills, one should learn a few foreign languages.

        JS

        February 23, 2017 at 4:42 pm

      • And not to play devil’s advocate with Yakov, it’s better to have a real tangible skills than fake office work. I’m sure many lazy, parasitic, SWPLs in NYC now feel a certain stigma about having a fake career earning fake money, when there is a crackdown of immigrants who are doing their dirty work.

        JS

        February 23, 2017 at 4:45 pm

    • I realize that replacing a lock seems expensive to the homeowner, and it is, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into large profits for the locksmith.

      The fee to come out is to compensate for all of the times that the locksmith gets called and never winds up doing any work. Being a locksmith means doing business on street level, often with people who hadn’t planned on or budgeted for needing a locksmith and whose emergency problem (or they themselves) might disappear before the locksmith arrives. Now imagine that a locksmith has five hours budgeted into his day for work (in addition to travel time), but only three of those five clients actually end up showing up or needing anything done. The $86 compensates the locksmith for those averages, and so it doesn’t mean that he is raking in an extra $86 profit times 5.

      Unless the locksmith also owns a lock-shop, he isn’t seeing much if any profit on the lock itself. $186 is pretty much average for an hour of most specialized professional services.

      Bob

      February 23, 2017 at 4:00 pm

      • You are right and there is also an overhead such as insurance, taxes (oh yeah, if you are paid with credit cards), office worker(s), who need to eat. Call backs, warranty work, etc. Not easy.

        Yakov

        February 23, 2017 at 8:49 pm

  5. By visa card so it is all on record. Would he have done it for less for cash? I doubt it he is a good Mormon.

    Oden's Raven

    February 22, 2017 at 1:48 pm

    • I dunno. Maybe he would offer discounts for cash payment, you needed to ask. ‘Discount’ is the key word here. There is nothing morally objectionable about that, I hope.

      Yakov

      February 23, 2017 at 8:15 am


Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: