Lion of the Blogosphere

Ray from Girls and wisdom from Jimmy Soul

with 65 comments

It’s good that this video shows the lyrics, because they’re hard to understand from just listening.

Do view, it’s such a fun song, and perfectly safe for work.

* * *

I’ve been thinking about “Cookie Monster’s” comment:

I like Ray ending up with the fat girl. Ray is probably the most (only?) really redeemable character on the show and deserves better than Shosh and certainly Marnie. Fat or not Abigail is the kind of woman who fills gaps with a guy like Ray, and vice versa. I know some awkward guys like Ray who end up with less-attractive-but-more-open girls like Chubs. Sometimes it even works.

Plus she’s not exactly unattractive, at least IMO.

If we look at the photo in this Huffington Post article, I would sadly have to disagree with Cookie Monster that “she’s not exactly unattractive.” Even though I think that skinniness is highly overrated in women, Abigail is simply not a physically attractive woman. Not even in a chubby kind of way.

But at least with Abigail, Ray, who’s not buff and in-shape like Adam and Elijah, doesn’t have to worry that she is going to start criticizing him for having a pot belly and being flabby.

Cookie Monster is right about Marnie. This stanza from the Jimmy Soul song describes Marnie perfectly:

A pretty woman makes her husband look small
And very often causes his downfall
As soon as he married her and then she starts
To do the things that will break his heart

Marnie is the most self-centered and toxic of all the girls on the show, even more so than Hannah. If you like her, it’s only because her looks have blinded you to seeing who she really is.

Now let’s talk about Shoshanna. Most male viewers consider her to be the most likeable of the four girls. Her body isn’t marred with ugly tattoos. She’s nice to Ray.

But let’s be honest about her flaws. She’s not very smart. Yes, she’s the only girl with a corporate career, but that’s a conceit of Lena Dunham and the other script-writers for the show that creative people like themselves are a lot smarter than corporate workers, so they made Shoshanna, the dumb one, a corporate worker. In the context of the show, having a corporate career is not considered a positive trait, even though I suspect that most readers of this blog would disagree and hold the opinion that having a corporate job demonstrates responsibility and groundedness.

Also, Shoshanna is very shallow. For example, in the penultimate episode, she touts her new friends as being better than Marnie, Hannah and Jessa because, among other reasons, they are “pretty” and have “purses.”

Shoshanna will never get, the way Abigail does, Ray’s interest in his late friend’s collection of audio tapes, because it doesn’t help Ray make more money so that his future wife can buy expensive purses.

* * *

Another significant line from the Jimmy Soul song:

Don’t let your friends say you have no taste
Go ahead and marry anyway

A lot of people let society tell them what to do instead of doing what will make them happy.

For example, suppose Ray were a real person, and then he read my post about the episode and read all of the comments disparaging Abigail and saying that Ray could do better. If Ray were an insecure person, he might very well take that stuff to heart and dump Abigail, even though she would make him happy for the rest of his life.

Unfortunately, many of us are like Shoshanna. We can’t help but base our own happiness on what other people think about us and how we stand in the rat race for status, and how our purses and other clothes and accessories compare to our friends (last clause only applies if you’re a woman or a gay man). Even if we have a genuine desire to change, we can’t overcome our nature.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

April 14, 2017 at 1:09 pm

65 Responses

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  1. I always had a feeling Marnie was a character written resentfully by Dunham, sort of a fat-girl revenge fantasy against the pretty girl. Society simply does not functionally allow a very physically attractive woman like Marnie to be so intermittently self-destructive. At worst they end up being a single mother with hefty alimony or child-support.

    I lost interest in the show when there was that delusion of Hannah having a fling with that doctor in a brownstone. Get real.

    A Dilettante

    April 14, 2017 at 2:33 pm

    • It’s perfectly possible. Doctors usually have Ray’s personality. I could see the doctor wanting to bang a 6 like Hannah because she made him feel a connection that went beyond pure visual appeal.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lapdog

      April 14, 2017 at 9:52 pm

      • Hannah is more like a 2. Although as discussed back in that episode, a middle-aged man who isn’t super-exciting and full of “game” isn’t going to be able to bank girls in their 20s so easily, even if he’s a doctor.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        April 14, 2017 at 10:08 pm

      • Hannah’s not a two, maybe a four. Four is a pretty low score for a girl who doesn’t have any one imperfection that really sticks out (other than being possessed of a lot of poorly distributed body fat).

        Stealth

        April 15, 2017 at 9:42 pm

    • I still have ptsd from that scene *gag*. Not if she were the last woman in Earth.

      Frank

      April 16, 2017 at 11:02 am

  2. Shoshanna is dumb, annoying, and not particularly attractive. Add to that her shallowness/status-obsession and you have a horrible life partner. I am baffled after reading some of the comments in the other post putting her on a pedestal and hating on her fiance. I don’t believe the signs are strong enough to say the Asian guy is gay; timid, beta, metrosexual are fair descriptors of him. Despite his Asianness Shoshanna is dating up. The Asian’s white counterpart would be way out of Shoshanna’s league.

    DaddyFrank

    April 14, 2017 at 2:41 pm

    • Remember that Shoshanna likes Asians because she lived in Japan.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      April 14, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    • Shoshanna has the perfect IQ for a spouse to a successful Wall Street banker or lawyer. She is not that dumb (she graduated from NYU, she has to have something on the ball), just shallow. Give her a nice life, home, kids, spending money and she will make a perfectly loyal, attractive, presentable and pleasant wife. Why would a man want more than that. Superior Intelligence is soooooo overrated. Who needs stimulating, scintillating conversation and insights. “Just bring me a beer honey and let me relax”. That’s all I need. That is all any man should need.

      She is selling her self cheaply for the gay Asian.

      Daniel

      April 15, 2017 at 2:59 pm

      • When I was at Stuyvesant, NYU was considered a safety school.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        April 15, 2017 at 6:49 pm

      • >>When I was at Stuyvesant, NYU was considered a safety school.

        I am not classifying it as Ivy, or Amherst or Williams but it is decent enough. Certainly on par with SUNY Albany or Rutgers.

        Daniel

        April 15, 2017 at 7:54 pm

      • I’m pretty sure you can’t joke about the subservient housewife in the kitchen while also crying foul on a cheating poor man’s Sarah Silverman choice of partner.

        So if Shoshanna is shallow, and the Asian is gay, Shoshanna is marrying this guy for his wealth/status. That is established but here you are telling me that not only does she deserve someone more sexually appealing, but someone with more status? Rhetoric like that destroys civilised society.

        DaddyFrank

        April 15, 2017 at 9:50 pm

      • What is it with people and Sarah Silverman? Even in her prime she was a 5 at best. She has always been pretty gross.

        Shoshana has a 6 face an an 8 body. I’ll take it.

        Otis the Sweaty

        April 15, 2017 at 11:30 pm

      • Whatever floats your boat, and I agree that Silverman is nothing special. Giving Shoshanna an 8 body for being skinny is very wrong though. Her body looks like a thin refrigerator/rectangle; again ignorance is bliss, so lucky you.

        DaddyFrank

        April 16, 2017 at 1:13 am

  3. True about Marnie. She is absolutely toxic. She has been divorced by 25 and will likely be divorced 2 more times by 40. She’s a spoiled, toxic princess in addition to being a cheating slut. She cheated on her husband within weeks of getting married. Bad news.

    Daniel

    April 14, 2017 at 3:01 pm

    • And we never got to see her luscious teats. God damn it.

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      April 14, 2017 at 4:13 pm

      • Seriously. Was there not anyone equally hot that didn’t require a no nudity clause in the contract?

        Jokah Macpherson

        April 15, 2017 at 12:15 am

  4. Even though I think that skinniness is highly overrated in women

    I am convinced that to a great extent, skinniness is something of a Fisher’s Runaway Selection phenomenon, where it became fashionable to be skinny, and so then men wanted it in women because it’s high-status, and women wanted it so they could *be* high-status, and it’s spiraled out-of-control. It’s interesting that while there’s an obesity epidemic, there are simultaneously large numbers of women whose conception of the ideal is actually too thin.

    S.J., Esquire

    April 14, 2017 at 4:13 pm

    • It’s interesting how Jessa is basically the same but nobody here talks shit about Jessa because Jessa is more honest about what she is.

      Marnie’s greatest flaw is ironically being incongruent, which itself is a byproduct of a lack of self-reflection.

      A lack of self reflection is intimately tied with an inability to feel remorse, so maybe people are really pissed that Marnie is incapable of ever regretting her failures whereas Jessa may one day come to regret her life choices.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lapdog

      April 14, 2017 at 9:55 pm

      • Jessa is boring, full of shit and easily the most selfish person on the show. Marnie nailed Jessa’s annoying, bullshit personality in the first episode, one of the few good things Marnie has done.

        Marnie is based on one of Dunham’s hotter friends from back in the day, the one who played Charlie’s girlfriend in season 2. Dunham definitely has some resentment towards the girl.

        Jean Ralphio

        April 15, 2017 at 12:48 am

  5. “Unfortunately, many of us are like Shoshanna. We can’t help but base our own happiness on what other people think about us and how we stand in the rat race for status, and how our purses and other clothes and accessories compare to our friends (last clause only applies if you’re a woman or a gay man). Even if we have a genuine desire to change, we can’t overcome our nature.”

    Was trying not to feel that existential angst today, Lion!
    One of the things HBD does to you is make you realize how human nature is entirely pre-programmed, that your personality is genetic, your looks are genetic, your outcomes in life are mostly a result of your genes, parental investment means little, etc…you become quite fatalist…even if we wanted to change we couldn’t! In a sense our bodies are a prison, and you don’t get to choose your prison. If you have thief genes, you will always be a thief.

    jjbees

    April 14, 2017 at 4:17 pm

    • You can change your environment. People used to move to a new city and new job to reinvent themselves. Sometimes it works.

      JW Bell

      April 14, 2017 at 11:21 pm

      • Americans are just consumerist whores. What’s there to reinvent?

        JS

        April 15, 2017 at 10:51 pm

    • If it’s any consolation, there was never any ghost in the machine to begin with. The main alternative to genes determining your fate is “probably random noise” determining your fate.

      Jokah Macpherson

      April 15, 2017 at 12:14 am

  6. Clean but somehow erotic video: cute chick shoots elephant gun.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    April 14, 2017 at 4:30 pm

    • That would be the most boring video ever, if it wasn’t for the fact that the girl is cute.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      April 14, 2017 at 9:17 pm

      • Hott chix shooting big guns are a major turn-on. Here’s a very short video of a chick who may not be quite as hott, but is shooting an even bigger gun:

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        April 14, 2017 at 9:49 pm

      • It’s still boring, and her hairstyle is silly for an outdoorswoman.

        Dave Pinsen

        April 15, 2017 at 1:35 am

  7. Two questions I still have from your last post on this episode.

    1) What is “WGWAG”?

    2) Who is Paul Luis?

    Lena Dunham is the subject of tomorrow’s Lunch w/ the FT interview.

    Dave Pinsen

    April 14, 2017 at 6:43 pm

  8. It won’t work. If you marry an ugly fat woman you will be expected (by her) to be excited about sex. Plus, you’ll be bombarded regularly with questions like “Don’t You Find me Attractive”? She won’t understand that you married her in SPITE of her looks and you certainly can’t tell her that if you want to stay married.

    CamelCaseRob

    April 14, 2017 at 6:52 pm

    • This is true and, while my libido noticeably after 50, I couldn’t imagine having an unattractive wife night after night. On the other hand attractive women are sneaky, untrustworthy, petulant, and difficult to please.

      E. Rekshun

      April 15, 2017 at 5:31 am

    • The only real problem with big gals is the mechanics of the event. A big gal who is enthusiastic will almost always be preferable to a skinny cold fish. Plus there are moving pendulums to help maintain interest.

      Curle

      April 15, 2017 at 10:36 am

  9. again i just don’t understand this “hate” on asian guys. Where does it stem from? Highly successful hedgefund guy, which there are a lot of in nyc now, yet the pure divisiveness towards asian in this blog and a lot of other places doesn’t make sense.. There’s something deeper here. Is it that asians are out muscling whites in schooling and jobs. Is it similar to what jews did the last 100 years in america. fyi – i’m not asian.

    unan

    April 14, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    • No more hate on Asians! I will be deleting comments.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      April 14, 2017 at 9:21 pm

    • Yes it is a hate of muscling in. How would you like it if someone came into your house and ate your food and fucked your wife?

      In America’s case the wife (our politician cuckholds) invited in the freeloader (freeloader simply means someone who takes and doesn’t give back – being a taxpayer is not giving back).

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lapdog

      April 14, 2017 at 9:58 pm

      • ok I’ll bite – Paul Ryan’s sickly Old lapdog. Some didn’t come into YOUR house. I would guess most immigrants, just like your parents or grandparents, came in legally. And I’m not sure what you mean by free loading. These aren’t boat people from vietnam or refugees from Samolia. At best most are middle class or even lower. Yes a lot of indians are doctors, but that’s because there was a shortage in the 70s and 80s in the US. I work in Michigan, and believe me there 2 whites for every 100 engineers here in the auto companies. We can’t recruit enough whites from the local universities because they aren’t enough whites graduating with electrical or mechanical engineering degrees !!!!

        And why is being a good tax payer giving back? What does it require to be a good american Pau Ryan’s Sickly Old Lapdog?

        unan

        April 15, 2017 at 6:12 am

      • Unan,

        If I had to guess, I would say that high tuition combined with low reimbursement are the foremost reasons Americans don’t go into engineering fields like that.

        Stealth

        April 15, 2017 at 8:41 pm

      • East Asians are only found in large numbers outside of East Asia in Anglo Prole societies, simply because of money.

        JS

        April 15, 2017 at 10:54 pm

    • I used to live as a minority among Asians. They are wildly tribal but don’t hesitate to play the SJW card against whites while purporting to stand up for blacks (but only in white dominated societies). In Asian dominated environments they don’t hesitate to subject blacks to withering condemnation and abuse. It is the casual hypocrisy that I find so distasteful. But I feel the same way about Yankee behaviors. Both highly offensive.

      Curle

      April 15, 2017 at 2:08 am

  10. Shoshanna has a Minnie Mouse voice and is a heavy uptalker on top of this. (So is Lena and to a lessor degree Adam and Elijah). A high voice or uptalking by themselves could be tolerable, but not in combination.

    Pop

    April 14, 2017 at 8:24 pm

    • Good post, Lion. I hope whoever pays you to write here gives you a bonus (Not that I have ever watched Girls but I liked this post anyway). Stop reading here if you do not want my take on the issues you discussed……. Everybody has many many faults. Nobody has the option of marrying somebody who does not have several annoying faults. People spend a lot of time watching things on the screen and tend to underrate faults that are not filmed. Here are a few. Some skinny girls eat so slow that it is unpleasant and almost impossible to share a meal with them. Some people with intensely cool clothes also have intensely bad hygiene – you know, they want to ‘represent’ – and while they look ready to totally represent at the latest super-cool SJW rally they smell bad. Hour after hour after hour! How unkind! Then there are smart men and smart women; Smart, and who have lots of funny things to say … but when they are done saying the funny things they have thought of saying they get tired and withdrawn and resort to complaining a lot about being bored (that is the unfilmed underside of most “rom-coms”, by the way.) Moving on, Hot Third World women often do not respect men who are not willing to support all their siblings and all their parents and grandparents, including sometimes even unrelated old people who are faking their claim to grandparent status, just because. Moving along, super-masculine males are almost always narcissistic and boring, no matter how attractive they were at first to their women. I could go on. So if you are an ordinary schlub like me don’t feel bad if you choose a partner and there are several things about that partner that seem intolerable. It is almost always worth it to have , or try to have, a partner in life. Don’t be over-critical. There are no guarantees and really very few deal-breakers for almost all of us.For example, look at how attractive and well-dressed and healthy and ‘bright’ young Hillary Clinton and young Gerald Ford were – are they to blame that they lived almost all their adult lives with spouses who were so awfully disappointing? I hope that you are luckier.

      howitzer daniel

      April 14, 2017 at 9:47 pm

      • I’m sitting next to an interesting married couple in a restaurant in SF right now. Both about 40, she’s an unattractive white/asian (probably Japanese) mix, he’s a pretty good-looking, macho latino wearing shorts, probably a construction guy or cop. She’s doing 90% of the talking, all of it about her job, where she’s some kind of accountant or tax supervisor. You can tell he doesn’t understand most of what she’s saying, but he’s a hell of a good listener. I’m surprised this guy ended up with an intelligent frump. He’s just the sort of soft-spoken dim hunk that better-looking chicks crave.

        Explainer 21

        April 14, 2017 at 11:12 pm

      • “For example, look at how attractive and well-dressed and healthy and ‘bright’ young Hillary Clinton and young Gerald Ford were”

        Late-20’s Gerald Ford as Cosmopolitan cover model:

        http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/357927/21178939/1354725611823/Gerald+Ford+Cosmopolitan+Cover+Color+April+1942+fr+Will+Rabbe+Web.jpg?token=Y9%2BRr6zLWsz3eafWMn9Fl5wSstc%3D

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        April 15, 2017 at 10:00 am

  11. Shoshana isn’t dumb. She’s just shallow. Typical corporate person. There is plenty of IQ there, it’s just not being used the same way a nerdy “thinker” type person uses theirs.

    Marnie is way, way dumber than Shoshana.

    27 year old from sailers

    April 14, 2017 at 11:20 pm

  12. I watched a couple of episodes when the series first started because Leon mentioned it. If memory serves, Marnie was the only character who was reasonably attractive. I don’t think it’s a coincidence the show also portrays her as a bad person. Similarly, I don’t think it’s a coincidence the show portrays Abigail as a good person.

    Feminism is where angry dykes and ugly shrews go to vent their rage. So it’s not surprising that a show created by feminists would portray the pretty girl as bad and the ugly girl as good. But one need only look at Dunham to see the opposite.

    destructure

    April 14, 2017 at 11:32 pm

    • > Marnie was the only character who was reasonably attractive.

      I googled her pic. Yeah she’s conventionally attractive but so blah and not exotic at all.

      Fact Checker

      April 15, 2017 at 7:54 am

      • Exotic? Do you mean like this ? Or like this ?

        destructure

        April 15, 2017 at 2:20 pm

      • Marnie is Brian Williams’s daughter, the girl from Get Out, right? She’s very attractive but she has that classic look of a woman who is the daughter of a successful alpha man and his beautiful wife: a little too much jaw. I wonder how many men would prefer a woman who is somewhat closer to average-looking in various respects in exchange for cooling it on the whole jaw thing.

        Greg Pandatshang

        April 15, 2017 at 6:34 pm

  13. It occurs to me that the marriage rate of the girls in Girls is probably a lot higher than their demographic in RL. Of the 4 girls, 2 have already been married and a 3rd is engaged.

    Dave Pinsen

    April 15, 2017 at 1:38 am

    • Because for them getting married is like changing their hairstyle or going for a walk on a Sunday afternoon. It means nothing.

      Fact Checker

      April 15, 2017 at 8:00 am

      • Meant to say, “people like this.”

        Fact Checker

        April 15, 2017 at 8:00 am

  14. I’m going to pull back from the character by character analysis for a bit.

    An important recent scene was where Hannah overhears the two younger girls in the shop and obviously reflects on how similar she and her friends were 6-8 years earlier.

    The show is entitled “Girls,” not women, or little women. I think it’s about a life-stage that these girls and a lot of young women go through, especially in the contemporary west. Leaving aside exact timing and numbers, I think it’s a cultural phenomena that roughly emerged post WWII but definitely had reached some sort of saturation point by the 90’s (Gen X). Maybe this is all obvious and Lion addressed it long ago. (In fact, I’m pretty sure he did.)

    In an earlier comment, I tried to riff on this season having elements of a tragedy, which in the classics or Shakespeare would have meant that one or all of the significant characters would die at the end. This is contrasted with comedy, which ends in marriage. So I predicted Hannah would die, or miscarriage, or something would happen to somebody to sort of wake them all up to how horrible they are. I figured there was just no way, artistically, all these horrible people could get off so easy.

    Now I’m thinking it’s more like a Jane Austen tale, where no one dies, the women just either achieve a happy marriage (hooray!) or get shunted off into more or less joyful horrible living arrangement, and that the tragedy is meta or almost meta.

    It’s a show about the dream of girls becoming women not by staying at home under dad or a guardian’s care and waiting on a proper suitor –a man who has already going through a male coming of age procedure, or of actively waiting by going to balls and making social connections, but of them –the girls, going out and living on their own first. It’s a narrative about that life narrative. And of course being as it’s by and for females, and middle and upper middle class females (if you’re watching it’s for you), no one ends up shot or lost at sea –or raped, kidnapped, prostituted. They just all end up a little more mature, jaded, etc. etc.

    Are they full grown women now? And what kind of women? Ready, willing and able to join the project of creating the next generation? Are we good yet? Leaving aside whether all of their experiences were “worth it,” are they still viable? Meh, more or less, yeah. But who is in a better spot and why? In Jane Austen, the best end with the best situation.

    CMC

    April 15, 2017 at 10:53 am

    • I’m confused why the commenters here all seem to think they’re horrible people. The only one who I think fits that description is Jessa. She’s engaged in criminal behavior throughout the show and has actively tried to ruin other people’s lives, but the other three and pretty typical young, white, upper middle class women who cheat on their significant others.

      Jean Ralphio

      April 15, 2017 at 1:33 pm

  15. On second thought, that’s partly baloney. Of course it’s not mainly a narrative about a narrative. It’s just that that scene and how the show is ending has some meta aspects, some insight. .

    CMC

    April 15, 2017 at 10:55 am

  16. Re Abigail. I prefer Abigail from Abigail’s Secret Garden.

    Curle

    April 15, 2017 at 11:14 am

  17. Charlie Robison’s thoughts on this subject.

    Stealth

    April 15, 2017 at 8:00 pm

  18. I’ve noted zero correlation between bitchiness and looks. Jimmy Soul is wrong.

    bobbybobbob

    April 15, 2017 at 9:14 pm

    • This is a good point. There’s plenty of ugly women who make terrible wives, too. So if you’re going to roll the dice and get hitched, it might as well be to someone attractive.

      Jokah Macpherson

      April 15, 2017 at 11:37 pm

      • This is a good point. There’s plenty of ugly women who make terrible wives, too.

        And I suspect that Jimmy Soul was referring to black women in that song.

        So ugly black women are less bitchy, angry, argumentative and entitled?

        Among White girls the uglier ones are no less a “problem” than the average to cute ones.

        It’s a personality and genetic disposition issue. Not tied to looks.

        Rifleman

        April 16, 2017 at 12:43 am

  19. Right kicked the crap out of the Left in Berkeley today.

    On DKos they are talking about how they will beat us in a civil war: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/15/1653366/-Armed-Trump-fans-are-contemplating-a-shooting-war-with-progressives-and-anti-facists

    Otis the Sweaty

    April 16, 2017 at 1:19 am

  20. I can’t believe I’m admitting to watching this show. For all the hype about it, nobody actually watches it, especially people in NYC. “Silicon Valley” is watched by 5X as many people and is actually funny. Another thing: Ray is annoying. He’s a pretentious pseudo intellectual who talks way too much, thinking that he’s being profound. In one episode, Adam had the same sentiment (S4 middle).

    Dennis Nedry

    April 16, 2017 at 8:16 am

  21. Lena thinks unconsciously that anyone with a corporate job is a prole.

    Just look at the fools who live in the suburbs and commute everyday into the city and work as a cubicle slave. What kind of life is that?

    JS

    April 16, 2017 at 8:53 am

  22. I never bought the Ray and Sosh pairing. Goofy looking neurotic who works at a coffee shop scores a fairly sexy girl? Unlikely to happen. Even with her aspyness, she’d soon realize her smv in a place like New York and only date hot Chads and rich guys. I mean just look at her husband in real life.

    Frank

    April 16, 2017 at 11:12 am

    • Ray is the smartest guy in the show, but he also has a prole old-school-New-York outlook on life.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      April 16, 2017 at 11:44 am

    • Wasn’t the minor PUA blogger who got outed a year and half ago a goofy looking coffee shop guy?

      Jokah Macpherson

      April 16, 2017 at 2:45 pm


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