Lion of the Blogosphere

Do shrimp feel pain?

http://prime.peta.org/2011/03/shellfish

According to PETA:

Some people believe that shrimps, crabs, and lobsters—all of whom are more closely related to insects than to vertebrate animals—cannot feel pain at all. But recent scientific studies have shown that crustaceans have central nervous systems very much capable of generating the sensation of pain. Crustaceans release stress hormones (analogous to our adrenal hormones) in response to painful events. If you’ve ever seen a lobster or crab lowered into a pot of boiling water, you’ve seen these animals fight just as hard for their lives as any other animal would in the same situation. A lobster can’t scream, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel agony in the time it takes for him to boil to death.

On commenter takes this even further:

one day we might even be advanced enough to understand the violence we inflict to plants and insects. Some Jains for example have even given up root vegetables (carrots, potatoes) that would “kill” the possibility for that plant to reproduce.

I remember once, while using a men’s room in a bar in Phoenix, reading an article above the urinal about how vegetables feel pain. “When a head of broccoli is boiled in water, it feels immense pain, said a scientist.” Of course, it was a parody article. But today, some people seem to take that parody seriously.

Another more sane commenter writes:

After reading a number of the above posts about not eating plants because of the pain they suffer when we rip them out of the earth, I began to wonder. If we remove all of our food, then what are we supposed to eat to stay alive? If we carry it too far, would we be able to drink water without harming the microbes that are living beings in the water? Where do we stop?

Going back to shrimp, regardless of whether or not they feel pain, they are a good source of vitamin B12, a vitamin which cannot be obtained from an unsupplemented vegan diet.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 20, 2017 at 1:38 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

110 Responses

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  1. I don’t think any adult actually questions whether shrimp feel pain. Of course they do. They have nerves, move around, and try to avoid injury and death. You don’t need a scientific study to know an animal like that feels pain.

    I also don’t think any serious person cares. What do you think a shrimp or crab would do to you if it had the chance? Eat you, just like big sharks do. I’ll reserve my sympathy for animals that have sympathy for me, like dolphins.

    Lowe

    June 20, 2017 at 1:49 pm

    • Actually, a lot of people do – not shrimp specifically, but there are members of my extended family who have argued with me about whether crustaceans, insects, etc. feel actual pain. A surprising number of people seem to view pain not as a physiological reaction, but as an expression of higher intelligence, as though it were a cruder form of moral feeling. I think that’s the only reason why boiling lobsters alive is still accepted in American society.

      Richard

      June 20, 2017 at 4:22 pm

      • @ Richard

        Maybe your relatives are just being disagreeable. That’s like the clowns in “Dumbo,” who say he doesn’t feel anything because he’s made of rubber.

        Lowe

        June 20, 2017 at 5:13 pm

      • That and boiled lobsters taste so, so good.

        Sid

        June 20, 2017 at 8:11 pm

      • @Lowe

        You greatly overestimate the intelligence and rationality of the average American.

        Richard

        June 20, 2017 at 11:09 pm

  2. “I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals. I’m a vegetarian because I hate plants.” — A. Whitney Brown.

    Gerald B

    June 20, 2017 at 1:53 pm

    • I’ve made that joke many times (more often back when I was a vegetarian). No one ever gets it. They just look at me blankly and say “If you hate plants, why do you eat them all time? Doesn’t make sense.”

      Greg Pandatshang

      June 21, 2017 at 2:14 pm

  3. Kosher law states shrimp and most seafood are disgusting and show be avoided for human consumption. I’d agree although I’m not Jewish.

    I avoid sushi rolled up with ocean critters, voraciously consumed by East Asians. Seafood not only smells “fishy”, it tastes fishy. I avoid all seafood consumption.

    JS

    June 20, 2017 at 2:20 pm

    • Congratulations. You’re now an honorary prole.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lapdog

      June 20, 2017 at 3:14 pm

      • JS is indeed prole. (Self-hating prole?) But I still agree with him on this point. Crustaceans and shellfish are kind of nasty ie bacteria, virus, parasites, heavy metals, etc. I’m not saying one shouldn’t eat them. But people should do their homework so they know what they’re eating.

        As for sushi, why would anyone want to eat a raw fish? ALL fish contain worms and parasites. And fish is very susceptible to bacteria. I’m not saying it’s dangerous if precautions are taken. But why not cook it?

        That’s a rhetorical question. I know why. Liberals love anything that’s new, different, exotic or just plain weird. And they especially get off on things that would disgust most people. The creepier and more disgusting the better. That’s true whether it’s food or sex.

        destructure

        June 20, 2017 at 5:35 pm

      • Once you get used to sushi, it’s not disgusting.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 20, 2017 at 9:02 pm

    • The shrimp is forbidden to us, the Jews, and in that sense is called an abomination, but to us only. The Jewish Law has no objections to the Gentiles eating anything they want. In and by themselves all animals are equal – it’s the Law that deferrentiates between them. What, you think that pork or shrimp are bad but the Almighty wants Gentiles to get sick? JS, you are not making any sense.

      Яков

      June 20, 2017 at 3:39 pm

      • Again, pork is bad. I only chicken when it comes to animal flesh. All other types of flesh is very bad and should be avoided. Kosher doesn’t say all flesh, only certain types of flesh.

        JS

        June 20, 2017 at 4:15 pm

      • I stop eating red meat for quite some time. But Kosher law doesn’t said it’s bad. Maybe it needs to be revised for health purposes.

        JS

        June 20, 2017 at 4:16 pm

      • the mosaic laws got it right regarding terrestrial animals. horses, dogs, and pigs are off limits. pigs are just as intelligent as dogs.

        how is this related to pizza?

        June 21, 2017 at 3:42 am

      • aquatic mammals are also off limits iirc. eating dolphins, whales, seals, etc. is worse than eating pigs.

        how is this related to pizza?

        June 21, 2017 at 3:44 am

      • “All other types of flesh is very bad and should be avoided.”

        porque?

        destructure

        June 21, 2017 at 9:00 pm

    • A few hours ago at a Mex place for lunch the guy at the table behind me said to the woman he was with, “I’m all about shrimp; in Norway ii’s what we have at any kind of celebration.”

      Sid

      June 20, 2017 at 9:12 pm

    • I’m with you. As far as I’m concerned shrimp and lobsters are bugs, and I don’t eat bugs. And I don’t like fish either.

      Rosenmops

      June 21, 2017 at 3:49 pm

  4. In early August I’m going feral hog hunting in Pennsylvania. Can’t wait!

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    June 20, 2017 at 2:22 pm

    • @ iriw

      First time I read this comment I thought you wrote feral dog. I imagined someone prowling around Detroit with a hunting rifle.

      Lowe

      June 20, 2017 at 9:55 pm

      • Feral dog hunting is probably what the Chinese do.

        Rosenmops

        June 21, 2017 at 3:52 pm

    • That’s something I’ve wanted to do — one of the night vision setups in particular.

      It’s my opinion that hunting is man interacting correctly with nature. Hunting teaches you to respect nature without worshipping it. It also teaches you that to eat meat is to kill.

      There is no one I respect less than a man who eats meat but isn’t psychologically prepared to kill for it. Vegans are at least consistent. Anyone here who hasn’t killed an animal for food at least once in his life needs to correct that promptly, or go vegetarian.

      And I give women a pass on this one — killing comes less naturally to them.

      Wency

      June 21, 2017 at 9:45 am

  5. As a supporter of animal rights, it pains me immensely that the movement is often associated with trendy SWPL types as well as the far left. Thankfully the cause also garners support amongst the right as well as the hard right. The Stormfront site for example always seems to have a contingent of follow animal-rights sympathizers. Hitler himself was a sympathizer and according to Wikipedia several of his top officers including Heinrich Himmler and Hermann Goring were as well. As an Indian with substantial skin pigmentation, Nazis and neo-nazis have never fazed in the least, but reading or hearing accounts of animal abuse, absolutely sickens me.

    Roli

    June 20, 2017 at 2:23 pm

    • If you really want to promote animal rights, I’d keep Nazi/Stormfront enthusiasm for it close to your vest. We don’t live in a rational society that can dispassionately separate policies from the people that support them.

      Richard

      June 20, 2017 at 4:27 pm

    • Michael Savage, the Jewish right-wing talk show host, is also an animal rights supporter, giving money to elephant charities and talking incessantly about how much he loves his dog.

      Gozo

      June 20, 2017 at 4:41 pm

      • Savage’s arch-nemesis, Mark Levin, is also big dog lover. Levin talks quite frequently about his dogs (both past and present). He even wrote a book about adopting a dog called “Rescuing Sprite.”

        Savage is one of the all time greats in talk radio, on a par with the legendary Bob Grant.

        Lewis Medlock

        June 20, 2017 at 5:09 pm

      • Savage is an interesting guy who will sometimes talk about literature or cars or sailing or his New York youth or academic career, which provides his show a level of variety that other talk shows lack.

        Gozo

        June 21, 2017 at 2:05 am

    • A month ago, there was a story about a hunter who was hunting elephants. He came upon a herd of elephants, and the mother elephant charged him because she wanted to defend her children. She picked him up with her trunk, and another hunter shot her dead, and the hunter who was caught in her trunk was crushed to death as she collapsed.

      I felt sorry for the hunter’s five children, the elephant, and the elephant calves for losing their mother. I didn’t feel bad for the hunter. Elephants have complex social structures, high intelligence, and rich emotional lives. I’m not saying an elephant is worth as much as a human, but let’s say an individual elephant is worth .7 of an individual human being. It’s just not right to harm them and give them emotional pain just for sport.

      On the note of Hitler loving animals – the sense I got from John Toland’s biography of Hitler is that Hitler didn’t have a cohesive personality. Even when he was the dictator of Germany, he was very kind and considerate to a select coterie of people he called his family, and I think a part of him wished he had made it as a painter or an architect. It’s just that he had another persona called Der Fuehrer, and in that role he was an absolute reprobate monster who enjoyed crushing his enemies, hoarding all the power he could amass, and was utterly apathetic to how he killed tens of millions of people and ruined the lives of countless more.

      Sid

      June 20, 2017 at 5:07 pm

      • This video was circulating today. Anybody who would kill these animals for sport is a louse.

        Richard

        June 20, 2017 at 11:12 pm

      • This depends. I think that hunting animals with a rifle just to kill them should be controlled, because their is not enough left for the people who depend on them for food, like these guys in the clip. What the the white people call sport when they go and shoot a bunch of ground hogs is plain weird. But when you hunt like these negroes, it’s legit. Look at them: they are thin and barefoot and all they use is spears. Obviously they are hungry and need to eat. It’s more them fair when a man kills an elephant with a spear. Why don’t all these white guys go hunting with a spear like negroes? Because they are cowards. Russians hunt a bear with a knife. Anybody ate bear meat? What’s it like?

        Яков

        June 21, 2017 at 7:00 am

      • Яков

        June 21, 2017 at 7:01 am

      • Elephants are highly destructive to agriculture, and even though their numbers are in overall decline they are overpopulated in some local regions. For that reason, some African countries allow limited elephant hunting. Permit fees are high and some of the proceeds go to communities that have suffered severe agricultural damage.

        Most people who want to hunt African big game go for cape buffalo, which are huge and very difficult to kill. Best of all, they are plentiful and in zero danger of extinction.

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        June 21, 2017 at 4:21 pm

      • “Russians hunt a bear with a knife.”

        No wonder they have negative population growth.

        Lewis Medlock

        June 21, 2017 at 5:09 pm

      • Wrong clip, my apologies.

        Яков

        June 21, 2017 at 5:27 pm

      • Toland’s biography of Hitler was one of the least worthy efforts. I recommend Kershaws two-parter.

        Steve

        June 21, 2017 at 5:55 pm

      • I generally agree with how Yakov categorizes hunting. I myself am not a hunter but I don’t judge rural people who hunt deer and the like. What I dislike is when animals with especially high intelligence and altruism that suffer from dwindling populations are shot.

        If park management believes that the number of elephants needs to be culled, so be it, but I still reserve the right to detest people who go out of their way to kill advanced species like elephants, whales, great apes and the like. If people have money to spend, go on a safari tour with a camera and then donate the money you’d spend on a permit to the park services directly – that way they won’t have any incentive in the future to let overpopulation be a problem for revenues in the future.

        Ian Kershaw’s biography of Hitler is excellent, but Toland’s helped me understand what Hitler was like as a person. I’ve read too many books about WWII and Nazism, and Hitler was an evil enigma to me until I read Toland.

        Sid

        June 21, 2017 at 9:53 pm

    • From my experience all animal lovers are Nazis. A Pygmy’s life is more important then there dogs, cats or turtles, but these Nazis will spend a fortune on animals and let Pygmys be eaten by the big negroes. Like Nazis they cry over their stupid pets, but don’t care a out people being killed by the millions and eaten.

      Torah protects animals and that’s enough. You don’t need to check them into hotels or hospitals, you know.

      PETA are Nazis.

      Яков

      June 20, 2017 at 6:48 pm

      • And then again, maybe we only think the Nazis are monsters because the media has conditioned us to do so.

        Roli

        June 20, 2017 at 9:16 pm

      • yakov is hilarious. big negroes eat pygmies?

        PETA aren’t nazis, but the nazis were extreme animal lovers.

        how is this related to pizza?

        June 21, 2017 at 3:30 am

      • You are talking from the perspective of an animal, I assume?

        Яков

        June 21, 2017 at 7:02 am

      • “From my experience all animal lovers are Nazis.”

        “And then again, maybe we only think the Nazis are monsters because the media has conditioned us to do so.”

        Dumb and dumber.

        Lewis Medlock

        June 21, 2017 at 5:24 pm

      • Bantus eat Pygmys. Look into it. Obama should’ve been talking about it, but he didn’t. Maybe because he is also a Bantu? I mean for a Nobel prize laureate he should have cared, so I think he is complicit. He knew they were being eaten and he did nothing to stop it or at least to raise awareness or raise hell.

        In my book anyone who cares about animals, fish, birds, bugs or plants more then he cares about people is a Nazi in a sense of having the Nazi mindset and being cruel like them. I repeat: PETA are Nazis.

        Яков

        June 21, 2017 at 5:45 pm

      • American dogs have more moral worth than African Pygmies.

        MEH 0910

        June 22, 2017 at 9:45 am

      • Are you a member of PETA or the Nazi party?

        Pigmeys are happy go lucky hard working chaps and nobody should molest them just because they are tiny. This is so simple that I don’t know why I’m even saying it.

        Яков

        June 22, 2017 at 3:08 pm

      • Pygmies and Bushmen split off from our lineage around 300,000 and 250,000 years ago. Neanderthals, which are usually considered a separate subspecies rather than a distinct race, split off around 600,000 years ago. Black Africans and Eurasians/Australoids split off from each other roughly 50,000 years ago, and we acknowledge that’s more of a racial split than a subspecies split. (The homo erecti who evolved in Asia were almost surely a separate species from homo sapiens by the time Denisovans and anatomically modern humans showed up.)

        That was a bunch of rambling, sorry. My view is that Pygmies and Bushmen are somewhere between a different race and a different subspecies from whites, Asians and Bantu blacks. This means that we shouldn’t expect them to adopt modern civilization fully, but we should have complete sympathy for their welfare.

        In short, I think that shooting elephants facing overpopulation might be necessary at times, but it’s still a terrible thing. I think that shooting Pygmies for any reason but self-defense is categorically indefensible.

        I think that it’s acceptable to put dangerous dogs or even stray dogs to sleep, but I think that abusing dogs is the purest sign of psychopathy, and people who harm family dogs should suffer severe criminal penalties.

        Sid

        June 22, 2017 at 4:27 pm

      • Okay Yakov, Pygmies are pretty harmless. Let’s see if we can’t find some middle ground here. Is it not reasonable to agree that American dogs, as man’s best friend, have more moral worth than the thieving scumbag Gypsies of Europe, who fill a niche as obligate social parasites?

        MEH 0910

        June 23, 2017 at 1:09 am

    • I think loving animals is independent of your politics. I have always loved animals and had dogs and cats. I used to be left wing but changed to right wing in later years. My attitude to animals didn’t change at all.

      Rosenmops

      June 21, 2017 at 3:56 pm

      • Puhlease, you would rather live next to a herd of dindu’s than a herd of elephants? I care more about the stray cats in my neighborhood than those – things – who chop up albinos for lucky charms, much more actually; that makes me a nazi? So be it, rich coming from this group of abortion fanatics.

        The reality that men must come to accept is that A Lot of people are not worth a stray dog. You can pick a random stray from the pound and a random stray from the hood, which do you think would have more value? Which do you think is more capable of redemption? Which would be less likely to turn on you?

        The flaw in most peoples understanding of evolution (beyond it being obvious nonsense as promoted, but hey, people need a show) is that they lower humans to the rank of animals rather than elevate animals to a rank closer to humans. Hatchi was spiritually enlightened, Trayvon and Michael were not and never would be.

        Yet, I am not a vegetarian, but I don’t eat cheeseburgers because there are a lot of carbs in the buns.

        Tiger of the Cosmos

        June 21, 2017 at 8:15 pm

  6. They’re also a great source of protein. Something like 18g of protein for 90 calories

    everybodyhatesscott

    June 20, 2017 at 2:25 pm

    • Mano was an interesting character. Although I’m not religious, I found some of his columns in NR to be thoughtful. This book sounds like it would be worth reading.

      Lewis Medlock

      June 20, 2017 at 4:39 pm

      • Yes, it came out in 1973 and was quite prescient. I just re-read it a few days ago and found it quite a tough slog (mainly because most of the book involved the hero making his way home alone, with little dialogue).

        The premise of the book is rule by environmentalists so extreme that food is no longer consumed, but rather replaced by some inorganic “e-diet” (soylent green, anyone?), and the ruling council ultimately decides that the human race must exterminate itself to protect microorganisms in the air destroyed by ordinary respiration. One man, Dominick Priest, calls this bullshit, ultimately knocks up his “Ten Eves of Priest” and thus saves the human race from extinction. The epilogue described a scene 600 years later in which the dominant religion is based on his salvation of humankind.

        sestamibi

        June 22, 2017 at 3:23 pm

  7. The ability to suffer is perhaps the most primitive sign of intelligence because there’s no point evolving pain unless you’re smart enough to avoid it

    No pain. No problem

    No problem, no need to problem solve, & intelligence is arguably just the brain’s problem solving computer.

    No pain or pleasure, no motivation. No motivation, no goal directed adaptive behaviour

    pumpkinperson

    June 20, 2017 at 3:23 pm

    • There are other forums where commenters say humans are now absolutely worthless, and humans aren’t even part of mother nature’s predatory/prey cycle. They serve no purpose in life.

      JS

      June 20, 2017 at 4:21 pm

      • The biosphere itself serves no purpose. Existence serves no purpose. If God exists, he/she/it serves no ultimate purpose.

        Stealth

        June 20, 2017 at 7:58 pm

    • oprah suffers from congenital analgesia. she’s too primitive to feel pain.

      how is this related to pizza?

      June 20, 2017 at 4:41 pm

  8. Carrot Top

    June 20, 2017 at 3:29 pm

  9. This post was probably inspired by a couple of comments from Sid and me on another post about whether fish and clams feel pain. Scientists have pretty much concluded they don’t. So one might assume that crustaceans similarly don’t. But I think the findings are less conclusive for crustaceans.

    But I don’t see why it matters. I need protein, b12, etc in my diet. So I’m going to eat it I don’t want any unnecessary suffering. I’ll kill them as quickly and cleanly as I can. But I’m going to eat them regardless.

    Insects have about as much protein of meat. But if everyone started eating insects then PETA would complain about that, too. As you’ve already pointed out, they’ve even gone to the extremes of worrying about plants. I personally consider this just a more extreme example of the mental illness all liberals share.

    destructure

    June 20, 2017 at 4:38 pm

    • Insects would be a great source of protein for the world’s human population. I wonder if chapulines taste good.

      Stealth

      June 20, 2017 at 8:35 pm

  10. Whatever you think of shrimp or lobsters, I don’t understand how anyone can think how clams have much more moral worth than vegetables:

    https://sentientist.org/2013/05/20/the-ethical-case-for-eating-oysters-and-mussels/

    Sid

    June 20, 2017 at 4:54 pm

  11. At this point in time, eating any seafood is immoral. There are no sustainable sea creatures and most fish farms are awful (w a few exceptions). Humans should leave the oceans alone for 20 years to let them recover. So what if a bunch of Asians and Africans die as a result.

    And yes, I will eat fish because I’m a hypocrite and because one person makes no difference. But if I ruled the world I would outlaw all seafood and I would stick to that law myself.

    Peterike

    June 20, 2017 at 5:20 pm

  12. the only reasons to be a vegan are:

    1. it’s goo for your health.

    2. the only animals/dairy one has access to have been “tortured”. (hunters and fishers scot-free)

    neither of these reasons is true for anyone.

    2. if terrestrial animals have been mistreated, eat “wild caught” salmon, et cetera.

    1. if veganism is good for your health that would be really weird as man is the hunting/meat-eating ape. this is what the archaeological record and the human gut show. of course it may be man is still not fully adapted to his “natural” diet.

    how is this realted to pizza?

    June 20, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    • You’re ignoring the environment. Meat generally has a much bigger impact because so many pounds of feed are ready required for each pound of meet.

      Magnavox

      June 21, 2017 at 12:45 am

  13. For those interested, here is a refreshingly objective analysis of the topic by the late David Foster Wallace: http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_lobster.html

    M

    June 20, 2017 at 6:23 pm

  14. “Do shrimp feel pain?”

    ……………..only when Lion calls them guidos, JS calls them proles ( or “proleshrimp”) and Otis calls them trucon scum. (…..just a little LOTB-inspired humor!)

    Maryk

    June 20, 2017 at 6:54 pm

  15. http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2010/04/consider_the_oyster.html

    “Biologically, oysters are not in the plant kingdom, but when it comes to ethical eating, they are almost indistinguishable from plants. Oyster farms account for 95 percent of all oyster consumption and have a minimal negative impact on their ecosystems; there are even nonprofit projects devoted to cultivating oysters as a way to improve water quality. Since so many oysters are farmed, there’s little danger of overfishing. No forests are cleared for oysters, no fertilizer is needed, and no grain goes to waste to feed them—they have a diet of plankton, which is about as close to the bottom of the food chain as you can get. Oyster cultivation also avoids many of the negative side effects of plant agriculture: There are no bees needed to pollinate oysters, no pesticides required to kill off other insects, and for the most part, oyster farms operate without the collateral damage of accidentally killing other animals during harvesting. (Relatedly, although it’s possible to collect wild oysters sustainably, the same cannot be said for other bivalves like clams and mussels. These are often dredged from the seabed, disrupting an entire ecosystem. For that reason, it’s best to avoid them.)

    Moreover, since oysters don’t have central nervous systems, they’re unlikely to experience pain in a way resembling ours—unlike a pig or a herring or even a lobster. They can’t move, so they don’t respond to injury like those animals do, either.”

    MEH 0910

    June 20, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    • I’ve never had oysters. Any advice on how to get started for a newb? I mean, what kind of restaurant, and are there choices about what to order? Or, really, I’d rather just try them as a snack, but where do I find snack oysters?

      Greg Pandatshang

      June 21, 2017 at 2:24 pm

      • They are served raw and alive, and it’s a very acquired taste.

        People will eat any weird food if they think it’s expensive and elite.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 21, 2017 at 4:39 pm

      • You can buy smoked oysters in a can. My husband eats them occasionally. I think they are disgusting.

        Rosenmops

        June 21, 2017 at 5:12 pm

      • They are served cooked in many different ways, not just raw. Although I’m sure you’re going to say that only proles eat cooked oysters.

        Hermes

        June 21, 2017 at 5:27 pm

      • I’ve never seen a prole eat an oyster.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 21, 2017 at 5:42 pm

      • @ Greg P

        If you want them raw, then go to a bar or seafood restaurant that advertises raw oysters. They might even shuck them in front of you, which is to say, open them with a knife.

        Then you can either suck them out of their shell, or put them on a cracker. They’re best with lemon juice or something spicy. They’re sort of an acquired taste, sort of not. Likely if you don’t like them after the first few, you won’t ever.

        However, in case you can’t tell from my description, raw oysters are a low class food, not a high class food. Cooked oysters are more common in classier places. They’re usually battered and fried. Frankly they’re still pretty low class, even when cooked.

        Most people who eat raw oysters are drinking alcohol at the same time, sometimes a lot. Interestingly my parents wouldn’t let me or my siblings eat them raw until we were teenagers, because of the risk of disease. Supposedly the risk is higher when they’re out of season, or something like that. Don’t remember clearly.

        Lowe

        June 21, 2017 at 5:40 pm

      • For a snack, you can buy smoked oysters in a tin at any supermarket.

        Hermes

        June 21, 2017 at 5:45 pm

      • This is a wonderful story ‘Oysters’ that you mates may enjoy:
        http://www.eldritchpress.org/ac/jr/020.htm

        Яков

        June 21, 2017 at 6:07 pm

      • lion is right. raw oysters the first time may cause gagging, especially if they’re big. the smaller ones aren’t as bad. but the taste is worth acquiring. they’re great with “cocktail sauce” = ketchup + worcestshire etc. organic ketchup of course. very high in zinc. you can buy them at the grocery store next to the pickled herring, but they’re best right off the boat. truly awesome.

        how is this related to pizza?

        June 21, 2017 at 6:38 pm

      • You’ve never seen a prole eat an oyster??? Come to the South. You can watch me, all of my family, and just about everybody else chow down on them. There are plenty of oyster bars in my gulf coast state.

        Stealth

        June 21, 2017 at 8:55 pm

      • Besides smoked oysters in a tin, you can also buy boiled oysters in a can at any supermarket.

        http://www.bumblebee.com/products/oysters/bumble-bee-smoked-oysters/
        http://www.bumblebee.com/products/oysters/bumble-bee-whole-oysters/

        MEH 0910

        June 22, 2017 at 9:53 am

      • By the way, brands can matter. I like Bumble Bee sardines, but when I tried Chicken of the Sea sardines, they tasted to my mouth the same way cat pee smells to my nose. On the other hand, both brands of canned tuna seem pretty comparable.

        MEH 0910

        June 22, 2017 at 11:32 am

  16. Note: I am against factory farming and the cruel, especially the hellish treatment of chickens, turkeys and pigs. This is why I won’t eat either of the three, only beef, invertebrates (like shrimp) and the occasional piece of fish.

    Let me raise a couple of points, though. For starters, prey animals routinely experience agonizing, unimaginable deaths. Nature is cruel, and predators don’t always give their quarry the luxury of a merciful death. There are numerous videos on Youtube depicting baby gazelles being eaten alive, hindquarters first, by baboons (herbivores, actually) that aren’t bothered in the least by the screams of their victims. Hyenas are equally cruel to large animals unfortunate enough to become their prey. Not the slightest bit of sympathy do they show. To say the least, such videos rival Earthlings. A lot of people think hunting is morally incorrect because it’s not “sporting,” but while killing an elk with a high powered rifle might cut short the animal’s life, it still provides it with a fate better than being diemboweled and flayed alive by a pack of wolves.

    When you bring this up to a vegan, they’ll tell you it’s ok because that’s the way of nature. Apparently suffering only counts when humans cause it. If the zebra with all the skin torn off the back of its legs could talk, he would probably disagree – vociferously.

    Point number two: Primitive animals like shrimp, can’t suffer all that much, no more than grasshoppers or crickets, creatures that even most vegans would squash underfoot. It’s an arthropod, a bug. The fact that it lives in the water is supposed to make a difference? GTFOOH.

    Stealth

    June 20, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    • I messed that first sentence up while trying to rewrite the paragraph. Bummer.

      Stealth

      June 20, 2017 at 8:26 pm

  17. earliest indications are that Handel will win by 1.5. Certainly things are subject to change at this early state.

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 20, 2017 at 8:34 pm

  18. In case you erroneously believed there were animal rights activists that were sane, this should kill those erroneous beliefs of sanity for you. I don’t know about you, but I have to wonder why the fuck any scientist would be trying to measure pain in shrimp. You just know that tax dollars are involved don’t you? Who the Hell would fund studies like this themselves? Whenever I see or hear someone trying to appeal to sentimentality to get others to feel sorry for my food, I reach for my shotgun.
    In case you think I’m overreacting, you should try looking for articles on your browser search engine about scientists manufacturing meat with recycled shit and how they believe eating bugs is the way to solve our food problems. What food problems are those? Are they saying eating bugs will solve the obesity problem? Yeah maybe, but I don’t have an obesity problem and don’t want bugs being put in food, because fat people cannot stop eating eleven meals a day.

    Joshua Sinistar

    June 20, 2017 at 9:13 pm

    • Is this the prolest comment in the history not this blog?

      Magnavox

      June 21, 2017 at 12:47 am

  19. Talking about fish, you mates keep saying that European Jews don’t know how to cook. We’ll, there is on thing they make that I think is realy awesome – it’s carp. That fish is fat! Very good. They have a diet version and that one is also very good, but stepped if all the fat. I think Jewish carp is something to write home about, I’ll take it over sushi.

    Яков

    June 20, 2017 at 9:15 pm

  20. After reading this post I wanted to suggest eating Oysters (great source for b12 and the best source of zinc), but other posters had the same suggestion.

    It seems to me that it is hard to get enough zinc in the diet with conventional foods. Insects are often higher in zinc than mammal or bird meat. I think we might have been meant to eat mostly vegetarian foods AND insects – like monkeys do.

    Hitler being semi-vegetarian is not good for vegetarianism, but it doesn’t seem to have done the anti-smoking movement any harm that Hitler was in their camp.

    When you really look at the whole ethical impact of your dietary choices – including killing pests, displacing animals and harvesting – then even vegan diets have a cost but that cost is lower.

    In the future I’d like genetically modified yeast to create us food with easily absorbed vitamins and minerals in whatever macro nutrient ratio we prefer.

    Simon

    June 20, 2017 at 10:04 pm

  21. Drinking water is inhumane and must be stopped.

    “What’s so bad about being drunk?”
    “Ask a glass of water.” -HHGTTG

    owentt

    June 20, 2017 at 10:22 pm

  22. Plants will reach out in the direction of sunlight and water, which suggests they do have some form of a will to live, whether you can refer to that as a desire is I suppose philosophical….

    DataExplorer

    June 20, 2017 at 10:24 pm

  23. GA-06 is a catastrophic loss for the Dems. There is no good way to spin it from their perspective.

    NeoGaf responding by doubling down on their delusion. They are saying that soundly losing the type of district that they absolutely have to win to win back the House is actually a great moral victory.

    Of course, even if we hold on to the House it doesn’t mean that all is well. The Dems got slaughtered in the 2010 midterms and Obama beat Romney by 4. But certainly we are better off if we keep control and keep the Republicans all joined to Trump.

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 20, 2017 at 11:28 pm

    • @ Otis

      Thanks for the update. We can only hope Dem losses continue. What do you think about the SCOTUS agreeing to hear the Wisconsin gerrymandering case?

      Lowe

      June 21, 2017 at 10:49 am

    • Problem is the Republicans in congress are still mostly garbage.

      Paul Ryan is scum and opposes much of what Trump ran on.

      Of course now Trump himself opposes what he ran on.

      Rifleman

      June 21, 2017 at 11:10 am

    • The Dems spent a hoot load of cashola on this, and lost anyway. This is a weird district: 8% Jewish. In Georgia?? What are they all doing there?

      Ossoff doesn’t even live in the district. He struck me like Macron: a total tool for the Globalist agenda, and they backed him to the hilt with money and media. And it still didn’t work. Encouraging.

      peterike

      June 21, 2017 at 2:44 pm

    • 1. This was the most expensive congressional race in history, and the Democrats still could not win.

      2. This is yet more evidence that something is wrong with polls.

      Joe

      June 21, 2017 at 3:19 pm

  24. I, for one, welcome this novel re-interpretation of man’s place on the food chain. What’s important to keep in mind is that, if something happens to the food supply, vegans and other virtue-signalling foodies will be a very important source of protein.

    map

    June 21, 2017 at 1:27 am

  25. OT: Gucci Little Piggy keeps frontin’. Remember how he would write about “Girls” episodes back when he was an obscure blogger?

    Now he’s trying to act “above it all” to pander to his new friendz. This would have been a filler-snark tweet from most pundits, but given Chuck’s history, it’s real cynical.

    Fiddlesticks

    June 21, 2017 at 12:36 pm

    • Only people like me who don’t get paid to write can write Truth.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 21, 2017 at 4:32 pm

    • I’m really amazed that Ross was able to transition into mainstream respectability. As I recall, he wrote some pretty heretical things in his GLP days. Glad for him, although like Icarus if he flies too high……….

      Richard

      June 21, 2017 at 5:21 pm

    • What’s wrong with Chuck’s tweet? It’s a passive dig at Allison Williams as far as I can tell.

      I really enjoyed the GLP blog and wish Chuck the best. I hope his career advances to the point where he’s writing op-ed pieces somewhere respectable.

      Horace Pinker

      June 21, 2017 at 6:29 pm

      • What’s wrong with Chuck’s tweet?

        Explained in my original comment.

        Fiddlesticks

        June 22, 2017 at 9:48 am

  26. What are the ethics of having them drink alcohol and then eating them?

    With the thoughts you'd be thinkin

    June 21, 2017 at 1:28 pm

    • Disgusting ಠ_ಠ

      Rosenmops

      June 21, 2017 at 5:16 pm

  27. When I catch trout I will occasionally keep a few to eat. I knock them on the head with the butt of a knife (kills them) and then clean them in the river. I make sure they’re dead before slicing them open.

    I do my best not to hurt the fish while handling it (wet hand before touching, barbless hooks, no fish photography), but obviously I’m causing them discomfort, even when I practice catch and release.

    My favorite way to cook trout is on the grill with a fish basket. 3.5 minutes per side and the skin is crunchy enough to eat, while the meat is moist (needs only some butter, salt, and pepper). Add lemon juice before serving.

    I much prefer salmon, but that kind of fishing requires mucho bucks to fly to Alaska and hire a guide etc. It’s definitely on my bucket list, though. I can’t imagine how amazing fresh caught salmon would be!

    SWPL2

    June 21, 2017 at 2:50 pm

  28. If you believe that all killing is bad and causes pain, even with animals like shrimp, then the most humane thing to do is eat large grass fed ungulates and drink their milk. You kill just one cow and feed hundreds for the day.

    Perhaps ironically, pastured beef is less destructive of animal life than almost all forms of tilled farming. The production of your soy burger killed dozens of insects, worms, and toads, and so forth. With knock on-effects on birds and other creatures.

    bobbybobbob

    June 21, 2017 at 3:04 pm

  29. Although there is more realism at DKos, at NeoGaf the consensus is that GA-06 was a huge victory for the Democrats because it was an “R+20 district”.

    There was a report in the NYT today that a lot of Dems want to start pretending that they don’t hate white people to fool more whites into voting for them but the Gaffers are screaming bloody murder that that isn’t necessary.

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 21, 2017 at 8:36 pm

  30. MEH 0910

    June 22, 2017 at 10:17 am

  31. Lion should watch Sausage Party. It’s very much in sync with this subject.

    Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lapdog

    June 22, 2017 at 1:33 pm


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