Lion of the Blogosphere

Skills-based hiring

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/technology/tech-jobs-skills-college-degree.html

I’m in favor of this, but in the long run, the people hired will become too old to learn new skills (as easily as they did when they were younger), and they will bump into a glass ceiling of career advancement for people without college degrees. So I don’t recommend this for your own children.

Notice that the two employees pictured in the article are white. As predicted by HBD. Affirmative action pushes barely qualified blacks into college, where they then graduate with degrees that ensure they get hired because of a combination of affirmative action and corporate America’s emphasis on degrees, even though they may have no useful skills.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 28, 2017 at 9:19 am

Posted in Uncategorized

87 Responses

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  1. This is how I got my IT job. Yeap. Wouldn’t do it again, though. Construction, HVAC, plumbing, electrical this is good for me. Would do electrical engineering, maybe. This is funny – I bump into my IT freinds and managers and almost all of them were canned as they got older and can’t get a job and look at me – lean and mean HVAC machine, lolz. The best thing is to be an independent tradesman who posses high level of skill. Gotta love the trades, though. Gotta be authentic without faking. Gotta find your thing and do it. The best for low IQ guys like myself, obviously. If you are a rocket scientist, then do your thing, obviously.

    Yakov

    June 28, 2017 at 9:48 am

    • Other western civs have already agree that socialism/self actualization works for people who have a decent IQ and there is no need to run a rat race experiment called America.

      JS

      June 28, 2017 at 11:24 am

      • ‘socialism/self actualization’

        Lolz! Thus is a euphemism for being a lazy bum, that’s all. Forceful labor and flogging for you, I say.

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 12:39 pm

      • Incidentally, back in the USSR they worshiped labor and taught us to love work for it’s own sake. I internalized that idea and America is the place where work is truly respected, not the USSR or France or Cuba. To you, like to a typical bum, socialism is about sitting around and sipping a latte after having collected a government check. Socialism that we were taught was laboring for the benefit of mankind. Big difference, mate. I don’t think that you have any evolutionary value. You are a walking corpse.

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 12:50 pm

      • People can agree that shit don’t stink if they want. Doesn’t make it true. Free enterprise has done more to live people out of poverty in the last 200 years than any other system has in the previous 10,000.

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2015/10/05/why-is-there-global-poverty/#6fecd2ae4da6

        destructure

        June 28, 2017 at 2:58 pm

      • How’s that working out for the poor or better, the middle class?

        JS

        June 28, 2017 at 8:01 pm

      • And the fact that many Americans wasted so much of their time chasing $$$ in a world that is becoming more and more post scarcity, — talking about redundancy!

        JS

        June 28, 2017 at 8:55 pm

      • and the soviet union accomplished more in 10 years than britain did from 1790 to 1914 in purely material, economic terms.

        “free enterprise” and capitalism have been around for a lot longer than the last 200 years. what’s changed is techne. the steam engine, the power loom, machine tools, interchangeable parts, electronics, and the computer.

        it’s the stupidity stupid.

        some engineers fall for the ideology of their masters. that’s really sad!

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        June 28, 2017 at 9:28 pm

      • “and the soviet union accomplished more in 10 years than britain did from 1790 to 1914 in purely material, economic terms.”

        Yes, It’s quicker and easier to adopt technology that it took others centuries to develop. But why was Russia was behind in the first place? And why have they still not caught up today?

        “ ‘free enterprise’ and capitalism have been around for a lot longer than the last 200 years. what’s changed is techne. the steam engine, the power loom, machine tools, interchangeable parts, electronics, and the computer.”

        Free enterprise and capitalism existed, But they were suppressed. Until a few hundred years ago, most lands and trading rights were controlled by oligarchs under charter from a monarch. When the public was finally granted property rights (ie free enterprise) is when all those “changes in techne” came about.

        destructure

        June 30, 2017 at 1:52 pm

    • Why do you insist on referring to yourself as low IQ? This gets annoying, when it’s so obviously untrue. The mere structure of your sentences proves otherwise. And, if any young person were reading your stuff while trying to decide on a career path, he or she would likely ignore your insights simply out of not wanting to think if themselves as “low IQ.” To borrow a phrase from the SJW’s, just stop it.

      Shot 78 Yesterday

      June 28, 2017 at 1:08 pm

      • It’s an act.

        Panther of the Blogocube

        June 28, 2017 at 6:13 pm

      • I mean a relatively low IQ, relative to my family of braniacs. Otherwise I’m an average guy. Also, the gospel that I preach, I beleive it to be suitable for average normal guys. There are elements of an act as well, lolz. Can I play a little?

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 7:02 pm

      • I mean a relatively low IQ, relative to my family of braniacs. Otherwise I’m an average guy. Also, the gospel that I preach, I beleive it to be suitable for average normal guys. There are elements of an act as well, lolz. Can I play a little?

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 7:02 pm

  2. I’m a bit skeptical that you can take a typical Pizza Hut manager and train him or her to code with 1/2 year of training. The woman in the story actually ends up in software testing and quality assurance. That’s great, but it’s not really coding. There are jobs around for people who can do basic computer maintenance, like installing a new driver or upgrading components, and these skills aren’t taught in mainstream colleges. Isn’t this the sort of thing ITT and similar schools used to train for?

    steve@steve.com

    June 28, 2017 at 10:33 am

    • There are plenty of H1Bs from Asia and more to come, that will make your point a moot one.

      JS

      June 28, 2017 at 11:29 am

    • “The woman in the story actually ends up in software testing and quality assurance. That’s great, but it’s not really coding.”

      It’s nothing at all like coding. But software QA is a good job for someone that is detail oriented and observant. And a bit of imagination helps. You can become quite a good QA person without ever taking a coding class. I’ve been in tech forever, but not in engineering, though along the way I found out I would have made an excellent QA person. The skills that really matter are inquisitiveness, ability to look outside the instruction set — hey, what happens if I push this button after I click this setting? — and think up ways of using the software that it wasn’t designed for (aka, end users will do all kinds of stupid shit, and you have to find it first), paying attention to details and noticing results. Imagination is good because it helps you improve processes. These are very “white” qualities and also part of general intelligence. Indian code slaves tend to be more “follow the instructions, push the buttons” types and they aren’t that good at uncovering flaws.

      In short, a reasonably smart and diligent white person CAN be turned into an effective QA tester (men more likely than women, of course), even with zero previous experience, but as JS notes, American companies will NEVER take this on as a corporate goal, since they can hire test slaves with ersatz degrees from India instead.

      peterike

      June 28, 2017 at 3:19 pm

      • QA looks like the world’s most boring job to me.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 28, 2017 at 6:00 pm

      • Yeah, QA is a bad, bad job for you and me Lion. But we had a QA guy who died of AIDS and he was excellent. Not stupid either. So you can’t judge just like that. Different strokes for different folks. But not a job for a Jew, definitely not.

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 8:03 pm

    • ITT. the free market at work. (he laughed.)

      Beverly Hills Ninja

      June 28, 2017 at 9:31 pm

  3. The thing to keep in mind is in IT/Computers “skills” are transitory. I have an advanced degree in science, but I have worked for the last 38 years as a computer programmer. A small silicon valley startup company gave me a chance 38 years ago because I had an advanced degree and they were desperate. I had one class in computer programming and that class was 15 years before the PC. No one had heard about Unix or C outside of Bell Labs. All of the programming languages I used in that one course were obsolete 40 years ago.

    I am basically a self-taught computer programmer. I picked up a lot of my skills doing science research. The only difference between me and Sean Bridges is I have a PhD.

    If you want to make a career in IT/Computers, it is not about just picking up some basic skills to get a job. The field is constantly changing. You need to keep learning new skills.

    mikeca

    June 28, 2017 at 10:59 am

    • Not that many people who start out as developers have the motor to keep being an effective/nimble coder into their late 40’s and beyond. Learning new skills becomes more difficult and a surprising number of programmers are either overly sentimental about their favorite language or simply don’t want to go through the tedium of learning new tech.

      Lion has been out of hands-on coding for at least 7 years, I think.

      Camlost

      June 28, 2017 at 1:23 pm

      • More than 8 years, actually.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 28, 2017 at 5:57 pm

      • Goes to show what is effing wrong with America:

        Low cost regions in America lack jobs and if you’re lucky to have a job, it’s a very boring job and you live in a boring place.

        High cost regions in America have plenty of jobs and amenities, but a lot of them do not pay your rent, unless you’re lucky to pay subsidized rent (or unlucky, because most of the time, your neighbors are either NAMs or crappy White people).

        JS

        June 28, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    • PhD or any other terminal degree is a filter that among other things shows that you have ability to self-learn new skills at advanced age.

      My Two Cents

      June 28, 2017 at 4:41 pm

      • One problem with getting a PhD is that by the time you finish it — particularly if you took a long time to finish as you were working while studying — your age counts against you more than your degree counts for you.

        Kyo

        June 29, 2017 at 2:53 am

    • Most of the leading figures in software are older white dudes.
      Fundamentally programming is all about manipulation of concepts. I don’t think that goes out of style. C language has been a round for almost 50 years. C++ for 30ish. Language turnover is overstated unless you’re living in San Francisco riding some bleeding edge technology.

      Panther of the Blogocube

      June 28, 2017 at 6:36 pm

      • Your memory weakens. I could remember most of the code of the Margin Requirements System by heart, wouldn’t be able to do it now. I remembered thousands of lines of code, the structure, the logic, the file names, the jobs, the schedule, could do night production support of the whole Portfolio Accounting System alone. There was never a day in my 10 years at that job that the system hadn’t come up in the morning because if anything I did. There was one instance when it didn’t, but I wasn’t involved in that. Not sure how I would handle it now. Who knows? One thing is sure – the memory isn’t the same.

        With application development your application is your second profession. It’s not just coding, you know.

        My dad was a brilliant engineer, he tried learning to program close to his sixties and couldn’t do it. At that time it greatly surprised me, but now at 58 I can understand why he couldn’t.

        There are tons of new things that I want to learn, will be interesting to see if I’m able to do it. Kettlebell training is going well, so I’m not out yet. Lolz.

        Its nice to be able to do HVAC, work outdoors and smell the roses at 58. I’m truly blessed.

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 7:17 pm

    • A small silicon valley startup company gave me a chance 38 years ago because I had an advanced degree and they were desperate.

      way to go professors. teaching the skills in demand for almost nothing. (he laughed.)

      Beverly Hills Ninja

      June 28, 2017 at 9:34 pm

  4. Lion — An african lady from Ghana once told me that she loves the Anglo Sphere, especially America. The people are welcoming, despite all the rhetoric of racism, and there are plenty of opportunities for her (and individuals like Yakov). She works for Whole Foods as a stock clerk. She then said, other Western entities are just jealous of America’s genuine concern when it comes to uplifting non-white people. You can’t make this stuff up. Unsurprisingly, this kind of narrative differs from that of black americans and proles who have a different set of standards.

    JS

    June 28, 2017 at 11:39 am

    • She is obviously right. Now remember the Russian electrician had a ‘ We are truly blessed’ sign in his house? How likely are you to find it in a French, Italian or Quebec home? A saying from my IT days: ‘Producers will produce and complainers will complain’. You don’t get sick and tired of whining?

      Yakov

      June 28, 2017 at 12:34 pm

      • I don’t whine. I’ve been saying in the count of 5 words. America is a cultural desert.

        JS

        June 28, 2017 at 9:24 pm

    • She then said, other Western entities are just jealous of America’s genuine concern when it comes to uplifting non-white people. You can’t make this stuff up. Unsurprisingly, this kind of narrative differs from that of black americans and proles who have a different set of standards.

      Yes, it’s very different for us Americans to be around blacks from other countries who use their own brain and don’t swallow the liberal narrative.

      Whenever I go to the Bahamas I always listen to the local public radio there, it’s very refreshing to hear blacks earnestly and responsibly discussing politics, finance, government but with no mention of “whitey’s out to get me” that you’d hear from Democrats in the USA.

      When I was in Nassau in 2012 we ran into a group of younger blacks who were complaining that the Bahamian government was starting to discuss LGBTQ rights, they told us they didn’t think their government should parrot whatever the USA does. They were glad to hear it when we told them that we are conservatives and were on their side on that issue.

      Camlost

      June 28, 2017 at 1:31 pm

      • Blacks are natural conservatives, and that comes out in in black super-majority countries like the Bahamas.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 28, 2017 at 5:59 pm

      • Libertarians are socially liberal and fiscally conservative, while black people are socially conservative and fiscally liberal.

        ScarletNumber

        June 29, 2017 at 3:50 am

      • “Libertarians are socially liberal and fiscally conservative, while black people are socially conservative and fiscally liberal.”

        Cute, but like most criticisms of libertarians fact-free. Blacks love the libertarians because they’re out talking in Black Churches and holding seminars on how to do well economically. They understand the libertarians want to make the programs well-funded and voluntary, and don’t want to impose lifestyles like the far-Left which wants everybody to be gay now. Plus libertarians are kryptonite to the commies, and working-class Blacks realize the commies just exploit them.

        African Blacks even more. They had a pan-African libertarian conference recently with 1000+ attendees.

        rob

        June 29, 2017 at 11:37 am

    • Pretty much the only thing Africans have in common with African Americans is how they look. Totally different outlook on life and set of behaviors. AA’s don’t like Africans btw…they think Africans are snooty.

      ASF

      June 28, 2017 at 2:12 pm

      • My wife and I met a black couple from Tanzania last week at church. They are the nicest couple you’d ever meet with three well mannered children. They were like out of the 1950’s. Strong conservative values, good jobs, etc. They do not like being lumped in with AAs. Kind of like a professional white that doesn’t want to be associated with hillbillies. They are also against race mixing. It blew me away.

        B.T.D.T.

        June 28, 2017 at 6:32 pm

      • Were they Tanzanian Devils?

        ScarletNumber

        June 29, 2017 at 3:53 am

    • “Unsurprisingly, this kind of narrative differs from that of black americans and proles who have a different set of standards.”

      Too many Americans believe what they are told, vs. what they actually see right in front of them. This applies to pretty much everything in life.

      peterike

      June 28, 2017 at 3:12 pm

  5. And for the wealthy and the TOOs, their heirs will engage in all kinds of fun make work like Toby Milstein.

    JS

    June 28, 2017 at 11:57 am

    • What do you consider “wealthy”?

      B.T.D.T.

      June 28, 2017 at 6:35 pm

      • Anything over 5 million.

        JS

        June 28, 2017 at 8:01 pm

      • 5 million is peanuts.

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 8:40 pm

      • Jim Bennett: I’ve been up two and a half million dollars.
        Frank: What you got on you?
        Jim Bennett: Nothing.
        Frank: What you put away?
        Jim Bennett: Nothing.
        Frank: You get up two and a half million dollars, any asshole in the world knows what to do: you get a house with a 25 year roof, an indestructible Jap-economy shitbox, you put the rest into the system at three to five percent to pay your taxes and that’s your base, get me? That’s your fortress of fucking solitude. That puts you, for the rest of your life, at a level of fuck you. Somebody wants you to do something, fuck you. Boss pisses you off, fuck you! Own your house. Have a couple bucks in the bank. Don’t drink. That’s all I have to say to anybody on any social level. Did your grandfather take risks?
        Jim Bennett: Yes.
        Frank: I guarantee he did it from a position of fuck you. A wise man’s life is based around fuck you. The United States of America is based on fuck you. You’re a king? You have an army? Greatest navy in the history of the world? Fuck you! Blow me. We’ll fuck it up ourselves.

        “The Gambler” (2014 movie)

        Njguy73

        June 28, 2017 at 9:48 pm

      • You don’t even have 5 million. 5 million allows you to live in Manhattan and work at a fun job.

        Guys like you admire sisyphean strivers and at the end of the day, it means nothing for most of them!

        JS

        June 28, 2017 at 10:52 pm

      • 5 million is good money, but doesn’t make you wealthy. How much is a brownstone in Park Slope nowdays?

        Yakov

        June 29, 2017 at 9:30 am

  6. It seems like opening up a “coding” school is the new and best way to some quick riches. Well, at least until the next recession.

    E. Rekshun

    June 28, 2017 at 12:03 pm

  7. Well, OK, but I think these folks are better off with their skills-based positions rather than plumbing the depths of the job market with some kind of fluff liberal arts degree from a directional state college and a load of debt.

    Black Death

    June 28, 2017 at 12:06 pm

  8. My degree is in History, which is pretty useless but even a generic BA but it’s nice to have on the resume. When I decided I wanted to move into computer programming/web development out of sheer lack of other options here was the path that I ended up taking:

    1. Went to a 9 week Rails bootcamp in Toronto in late 2013.
    2. When I got out I still sucked although I had learned a lot. I then took an online bootcamp in early 2014.
    3. Still sucked. So I decided to go to a more comprehensive 7 month Rails bootcamp in Denver in late 2014. Got extremely sick with the Death Flu that everyone was getting in early 2015 so it ended up taking me 9 months to graduate. By the time I finally completed the course in mid 2015, the school was beginning to switch over to be more JavaScript focused, but by the time I left I really hadn’t done much JS, which is not great for somebody who wants to get a job in web dev considering that nobody gives a shit about Rails anymore.
    4. While I still wasn’t any good as a programmer, I had improved enough that I felt like was good enough for a junior job. It took a few months but I finally found a job in South Carolina. The job was mostly in JavaScript but it was my horrible lack of HTML/CSS that ultimately did me in. I was fired within 3 weeks for falling asleep at my desk.
    5. I knew from looking for work that my lack of familiarity with JS frameworks was really hurting me in the job search, so I decided to go to yet another bootcamp. This one a JS intensive one in Austin. Although only a 3 month program, it was 63 hours a week (11 hours a day 5 days a week and 8 hours on Saturdays).
    6. I began the course in January 2016 and in the first week of class I slipped in the shower and gave myself a concussion. The concussion was severe enough that I had to spend 3 months on the shelf, so ironically I ended up not starting the course again until after I was already supposed to have graduated.
    7. I graduated in early July 2016, and pretty quickly found my current job which I have been at ever since. I’m still horrible, but not nearly as hopeless as when I began 4 years ago.

    Tl;dr: these coding camps can and do work, but if you aren’t very smart (i have an IQ under 120), there is only so much that they can do for you. If you go to a good one, you will get a job somewhere but the next stage of going from a junior dev to a senior dev is something you need to learn on the job and is MUCH more difficult. I’ve been working for nearly a year now and I don’t know if I will ever be able to become a senior level dev.

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 28, 2017 at 12:09 pm

    • Otis, how can you struggle with CSS and HTML? Anyone above 100 IQ can figure out those two, enough to get by, at least.

      Camlost

      June 28, 2017 at 6:43 pm

      • @ Camlost

        One way you might struggle is that HTML and CSS are extraordinarily boring.

        Lowe

        June 28, 2017 at 7:29 pm

    • I’ve gotten a lot better at them since then. Some of the more advanced HTML/CSS stuff can be very challenging, especially when things need to be “pixel perfect”.

      Otis the Sweaty

      June 28, 2017 at 7:21 pm

      • Yeah HTML 5 has gotten quite a bit more complex since earlier versions.

        I’m still mad that I spent great effort to teach myself Flash and now that’s going away.

        Camlost

        June 28, 2017 at 8:55 pm

    • @ Otis

      If you don’t mind me asking, how did you afford these programming bootcamps? Don’t they normally run in the thousands of dollars?

      Lowe

      June 28, 2017 at 7:33 pm

      • My long suffering mother bankrolled all of them.

        Otis the Sweaty

        June 29, 2017 at 8:18 am

    • ‘ I was fired within 3 weeks for falling asleep at my desk.’

      We had 3 black guys out of a department of about 200. Now this guy was a typical American Negro and would sleep by his desk EVERY DAY after lunch. I always used to say that I white guy wouldn’t last a week in his place. How did you manage last 3? How long did it take them to fire you after you were found sleeping on the job?

      Yakov

      June 28, 2017 at 7:43 pm

      • I worked basically right next to my immediate supervisor who caught me when I dozed off. She woke me up and then immediately reported me to the main manager/HR lady. I got called in to the HR lady’s office and she told me that both of my managers (there were 2 “senior” Devs there, both girls in their early 20s, but they were pretty good programmers) had said that I had been drifting off at my desk. I denied it, saying that I had only fallen asleep this once and that it was an accident.

        I had already been 30 minutes late one day my first week because I overslept and she told me that this was my last warning. She then said that my immediate supervisor would be giving her a full report on my performance after the next day. Basically probation. I don’t do probation.

        So I didn’t really get fired, per se, I just stopped showing up for work. But I think that I probably would have gotten fired the next day or soon after had I gone back.

        Otis the Sweaty

        June 29, 2017 at 8:14 am

      • Yeap, they would have canned you. No question about it. I woild have canned you too, by the way.

        Yakov

        June 29, 2017 at 12:54 pm

      • @Otis: I just stopped showing up for work.

        About fifteen years ago, a couple of years out of a well-ranked MBA program, I was job hunting and received a so-so offer from one firm, but was hoping for a better offer from a second firm. While awaiting the second firm, I accepted a job w/ firm no. 1. On day one, I was underwhelmed with my work space – an uncleaned cubicle in a less-than-desirable location in the building, with my predecessor’s files (and cookie crumbs) left behind in my desk. However, the night before, firm no. 2 offered the job at 20% higher salary and better, more autonomous working conditions. I gave my notice to firm no. 1 at lunch time and never went back. They did mail me a check for a full day’s pay.

        Despite, the extra 20% starting pay at firm no. 2, management was a disaster and I lasted just two years. Looking back, firm no. 1 had much better benefits and job security and, due to a couple of soon-to-follow high-level retirements, much better promotional opportunity and salary growth. This was just one of a few career mis-steps I made over 30 years.

        E. Rekshun

        June 29, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    • @Otis: Thanks for sharing. What are the typical salary offers to graduates of the coding boot camps you went to?

      I earned a reputable BS CS in 1986 and have been out of software development for over 25 years. I’ll soon be winding down my finance career but just curious – would a 30 y/o BS CS give one an advantage in getting through a reputable, rigorous coding boot camp and in a subsequent job search?

      I was fired within 3 weeks for falling asleep at my desk.

      I suspect that more than a few of the female managers I’ve worked with over the years were using adderall or ritalin. Do you have a sleep disorder? Maybe a prescription for adderall would help with that.

      E. Rekshun

      June 29, 2017 at 4:21 am

      • 1. Yes I have a sleep disorder. It normally is under control but I simply wasn’t able to handle it in those 3 weeks for whatever reason. Strangely, my sleep schedule was finally starting by the time I was fired to normalize and I think that had I lasted another 2 weeks I would have been okay. Although it was a terrible place to work and I’m glad I got fired.

        2. The BS CS would not help you in the actual coding camps but would be somewhat of a help on the job search

        Otis the Sweaty

        June 29, 2017 at 8:05 am

      • 3. Salary really depends on the city. If you get a job in San Fran you will start at around 100k as a junior dev but most of that salary will get eaten up by the rent. In a city like Austin you will start out at around 70k.

        I only make 18 an hour with no benefits but that’s because I wanted a job where I could work from home and set my own schedule while I continue to learn. In another year when I have brought my skills up I will move on to an office job.

        Otis the Sweaty

        June 29, 2017 at 8:18 am

    • Have you ever been tested on the WAIS-IV? I’m a late-20s black male with an IQ in the 115-120 IQ range and I’m wondering if I should do one of these bootcamps. But I’m not really a math/technology-oriented guy so I wonder how well would I do.

      All I know is that I need to make more money!

      GondwanaMan

      July 2, 2017 at 1:25 am

  9. Dara Lind explains why the SC decisions was a victory for Trump: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/28/15876238/muslim-ban-supreme-court-trump

    Most Liberals still are buying into the “Trump is flailing” narrative, including most of the homos on Vox. But Lind knows the score.

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 28, 2017 at 12:26 pm

  10. Even if the people hired through these means aren’t going to make it to the corner office, at least they’ll have much better jobs than otherwise would be the case.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    June 28, 2017 at 1:04 pm

    • Yes, true. Heck, even 98% of elite MBA grads aren’t going to make it beyond middle management.

      E. Rekshun

      June 30, 2017 at 9:44 am

  11. Although he’s only one person, the fact that you consider obama so brilliant suggests affirmative action is overrated, otherwise we’d expect the first black president to be dumber than most white presidents

    pumpkinperson

    June 28, 2017 at 1:14 pm

    • Presidents are not randomly selected from the population.

      Also, Obama is half white. Maybe he’s really just another white president. Have you considered that?

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 28, 2017 at 5:57 pm

      • The only thing black about Obama is his politics. Personally – he has no black ex-girlfriends, doesn’t help his family with money like average blacks. Likes to travel to exotic places in the 3rd world, which doesn’t interest American blacks at all.

        Eats like a SWPL.

        He was around very few rank-and-file black people during his formative years. And a lot of the black people you do meet in Hawaii are there due to the military, so they’re a higher class of blacks. I’m pretty sure black test scores are highest in Hawaii of all the 50 states.

        Camlost

        June 28, 2017 at 6:59 pm

  12. Right, the future isn’t bright for a 40 year old McDonald’s cashier.

    DaddyFrank

    June 28, 2017 at 3:41 pm

  13. Lion,

    Black guy here. I’m curious. How do you think a Black man with a few years experience post-college should take advantage of affirmative action? The Alt-Right blogosphere talks a lot about how much of an advantage blacks get in affirmative action. I want to know how to take advantage of that in the corporate world. How can I get a high paying, possibly managerial, job in the corporate world with decent skills and black skin as a trump card.

    Jamie

    June 28, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    • Just apply for jobs at big corporations, and you’ll be hired over an equally qualified white. It’s really that easy.

      Or even better, take advantage of AA to get into a prestigious MBA program.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 28, 2017 at 6:43 pm

      • @ LotB

        Do you think you could make an actual post on this subject? That is, how best to take advantage of AA?

        Lowe

        June 28, 2017 at 7:47 pm

      • This is among the best and most straightforward career advice ever given on this blog. This strategy also works for black and white females.

        E. Rekshun

        June 29, 2017 at 4:30 am

    • Black guy here. I’m curious. How do you think a Black man with a few years experience post-college should take advantage of affirmative action?

      Lion’s generic advice isn’t that great.

      To take advantage of AA you should pursue employment in the biggest companies around, the larger the better. Also, if they have any government contracts they are infinitely more likely to practice vigorous AA hiring.

      The government has a standard called OFCCP for companies with government contracts, it causes them to have to go out of their way on AA hiring by holding them to higher standards.

      At small, boutique companies or firms under 500 people AA may not help you very much. Remember that AA hiring is based on one thing – avoiding lawsuits. The deeper the pockets of the company, the more serious they take AA.

      Camlost

      June 28, 2017 at 6:48 pm

      • “Remember that AA hiring is based on one thing – avoiding lawsuits.”

        WRONG! The people who work in HR at big corporations actually drink the liberal Kool-Aid.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 28, 2017 at 8:14 pm

      • “Remember that AA hiring is based on one thing – avoiding lawsuits.”

        WRONG! The people who work in HR at big corporations actually drink the liberal Kool-Aid.

        So!!

        Those HR people don’t have the deep pockets. I’ve worked in HR and filed EEOC, AA, OFCCP paperwork. Everything is based on avoiding litigation based on government guidelines. You percentage of black employees has to match the surrounding region, or you automatically get fined by the dept of labor or lose your government contract or get sued.

        You’ve worked in tech, Lion. There’s no one out there hiring an Affirmative Action programmer. The bulk of AA hires are in middle management, paper pushing, administrative makework stuff where a bad employee can hide.

        Camlost

        June 28, 2017 at 8:50 pm

      • They don’t need AA to avoid hiring white programmers.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 28, 2017 at 9:39 pm

      • “WRONG! The people who work in HR at big corporations actually drink the liberal Kool-Aid.”

        If I’m at an interview, how should I gauge whether the HR person interviewing me is interested in a diversity hire? Should I ever ask a question about the diversity of the company or keep the diversity angle unmentioned but lurking hidden in the background?

        Jamie

        June 29, 2017 at 1:11 pm

    • If you really want to play it, I would suggest looking to get into some Diversity position, such as an assistant to the Dean of Diversity at a university or corporate analogue. There are big salaries for the guys near the top of that pyramid, and there is high demand.

      steve@steve.com

      June 28, 2017 at 7:30 pm

      • Some corporations actually now have a CDO–Chief Diversity Officer.

        Hermes

        June 28, 2017 at 8:41 pm

      • Man, this is amazing! I didn’t know. Over 20% of fortune 500 companies employ CDO and most of them are NAMs. We may be doomed. This is beyond belief. So stupid.

        Yakov

        June 28, 2017 at 10:38 pm

    • You don’t need to take advantage of affirmative action. You want to be a leach your whole life? I’m sure not. So I say talk, dress and act white and you will go places. Many white guys like me are sympathetic to blacks that want to be just like everyone else. Mates, aren’t we sympathetic to them?

      Yakov

      June 28, 2017 at 7:59 pm

  14. I think we are seeing now more and more older programmers, i personally know some who are in their early 70′ and still work and earn money. Yes there is some deterioration in cognitive skills as you get old but there is also some smartness that come with age, especially how to effectively divide your time between working with existing knowledge and acquiring new knowledge. I must admit, most of the older programmers I know work with legacy systems, but that’s ok, as we get more and more systems we also need the people to maintain them. Personally I am in my mid 40′, still work with startups, still learning new things, learned also how to not run after my own tail and I actually force myself not to learn new stuff because sometimes it is just distracting, you need some time to work with something in order to apply it properly. Not too long ago I was involved in some startup where all the people were around their 40′, it was quiet successful but we were all leaving work at 5-6 and never stressed ourself too much, wrote everything in plain Java, nothing too fancy. So I think people paint things a bit more grimmer than what they are.

    Hashed

    June 28, 2017 at 10:03 pm

    • I watched thousands of engineers be laid-offed from Intel. Mostly in their 40s-50s. Their job prospects were mostly bad. One ended working for the state government as a Java programmer.

      JW Bell

      June 29, 2017 at 3:46 am

  15. yeah there is this funny tendency on the right to think that the people at corporations are “with them” and that the only reason they support affirmative action and diversity etc. is bc the government is forcing them and theyre scared of not falling in line. its this moronic libertarian GOVERNMENT BAD vs GOOD RATIONAL CORPORATION dichotomy that does not exist in the real world. the people at huge companies are some of the biggest mushheads you’ll ever meet and they love all of this crap and impose it on themselves willingly.

    james n.s.w

    June 29, 2017 at 2:00 am

    • “moronic libertarian GOVERNMENT BAD vs GOOD RATIONAL CORPORATION dichotomy”

      This simply is incorrect.

      rob

      June 29, 2017 at 11:25 am


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