Lion of the Blogosphere

Is Donald Trump Jr. stupid?

with 158 comments

That’s what some people have been saying.

He has a B.S. degree from Wharton. While I am certain that someone from the Trump family would be able to get into Penn/Wharton with much less outstanding academic credentials than a regular middle-class student, it still takes a minimum level of intelligence to pass those classes. Someone with an IQ of only 100 (average) would definitely flunk out of Wharton.

If anything, Donald Trump Jr. seems smarter than Mike Pence as well as many other politicians. Until this week, there was nothing about him that gave off the impression of being stupid. While I don’t necessarily see evidence of genius, neither is there any evidence of below average intelligence for a business executive.

As I’ve said before, Donald Trump Jr. was just naïve, and he lacked a proper sense of paranoia to temper his natural glee at receiving information that would allegedly “incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia” thus confirming his belief that she was corrupt.

I believe that his lack of paranoia comes from growing up in such a lofty social class. The world seems like a much safer place when you’re that rich.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

July 13, 2017 at 1:32 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

158 Responses

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  1. Great analysis. There’s not enough appreciation for the mindsets that are baked in to us as adults, depending on whether as a kid, life conditioned you to see social interactions as “things you win and should embrace” vs “things you lose and should be skittish of.”

    Fiddlesticks

    July 13, 2017 at 1:46 pm

    • Lion, good points as always.

      I think another factor is there is a maze of often mutually-contradicting regulations written by the far-Left to make it impossible for a business-background President to function effectively or by business standards. Their nightmare is actual business and professional people ever get in and realize this government is of, for, and by the far-Left bureaucrats.

      Trump should do as he promised, appoint someone to look at this swamp of regulations to make a list and then demand Congress get rid of them. While he’s at it, assert Executive Privilege already.

      rob

      July 13, 2017 at 10:15 pm

  2. H/T Pumpkin Person

    Horace Pinker

    July 13, 2017 at 2:01 pm

    • Yes i was just about to comment on that clip but i see my fame precedes me 🙂

      Not being able to multiply 17 by 6 is definitely evidence of below 95 IQ given the high g loading of mental arithmetic.

      But then lion says his degree required calculus & that almost certainly requires above average IQ

      pumpkinperson

      July 13, 2017 at 5:16 pm

      • That was pretty uncomfortable to watch.

        Is not being able to multiply 17 by 6 evidence of below 95 IQ if you can’t do it with pen and paper or if you can’t do it in your head?

        Do you think they were just flustered and caught off guard in that video? Maybe they were just nervous. On the other hand, they did have a long time to answer.

        Tom

        July 13, 2017 at 7:58 pm

      • They weren’t taking it seriously.

      • Is not being able to multiply 17 by 6 evidence of below 95 IQ if you can’t do it with pen and paper or if you can’t do it in your head?

        The latter. Im pretty sure at least half the North American adult population can correctly and quickly multiply 17 by 6 without needing calculator, pen or paper.

        Do you think they were just flustered and caught off guard in that video? Maybe they were just nervous.

        Maybe, and in fairness it’s only one question measuring only one part of intelligence. Maybe he’s a lot smarter in other areas.

        pumpkinperson

        July 13, 2017 at 10:32 pm

      • I didn’t watch the video but if I were in the midst of a conversation and someone asked me to start performing arbitrary arithmetic I would probably not be able to do it (rather, not want to do it) on the spot either. Verbal intelligence gets going and the mathematical brain shuts down, and vice versa.

        Panther of the Blogocube

        July 13, 2017 at 10:50 pm

      • Disagree. Everyone learns the distributive property, but most learn it in the context of algebra and not for performing mental arithmetic. A very smart person would probably have made the connection. A merely smart person may also do so, but not necessarily.

        On the other hand, a less smart person could have a teacher that emphasizes the mental math usage or maybe their mom made them join the math club. They would then easily be able to do this calculation– but not because they “figured it out”, but because the technique was spelled out to them explicitly.

        anon

        July 13, 2017 at 10:51 pm

      • Nah. Being able to this basic arithmetic is really no big deal. It is really a trick that you learn, basically rounding up and down and then adding the multiplied components.

        Method One: Multiply 6*20 = 120. 6*3 = 18. Subtract 18 from 120 = 102.

        Method Two: 6*10 = 60. 6*7 = 42. 60 + 42 = 102.

        The second method is probably easier, but, in either case, “rotating” these kind of figures in your head is easy to learn for any order of magnitude and anyone can be taught to do this.

        Ivanka and Donald were probably trying to do the paper method of multiplication in their heads that they learned when they were kids. This is certainly harder to do.

        map

        July 13, 2017 at 11:06 pm

      • I’m absolutely terrible at math but can do mental arithmetic rapidly and accurately. It’s a distinct skill from quantitative reasoning.

        Sid

        July 13, 2017 at 11:31 pm

      • The paper method of multiplication in the head is not difficult for multiplying 2 digits with 1 digit though. Moderately intelligent people should be able to do that. The paper method in the head only gets difficult with multiply 2 digits with 2 or more digits, or with multiplying 3 or more digits with 1 digit.

        They may have gotten flustered because they’re probably not used to people asking them something that may make them look bad.

        Tom

        July 14, 2017 at 1:32 am

      • Mental calculations while sitting in a quiet room is one thing. Mental calculations while sitting in Stern’s studio with everyone talking, laughing, blurting out answers, buzzer. etc is something else. My math IQ is 4th STDV and I would have struggled with the distractions. I’m not very good with distractions.

        destructure

        July 14, 2017 at 8:57 am

      • I’m above average in math thanks to the excellent Soviet education. The real problem is patronizing the despicable Howard Stern show, not the perceived lack of mathematical prowess on the part of Trump. Eric is obviously intelligent, but I would rather he be dumb and boycott Stern. That guy is a disgrace to the Jewish nation. What a creep!

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 9:19 am

      • Should’ve watched the clip before commenting. I’m speechless – for neither one of the three adults not to be able to do 17×6 on the spot is SHOCKING! I’m not even good at math, just better then average, but I need to make zero effort to answer this question. I just don’t understand this. How can this be? Also, what person with a modicum of self-respect would subject himself to multiplication questions by Howard Stern?

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 1:01 pm

      • I asked my worker and he answered 96. I just don’t understand this. This make zero sense.

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 1:58 pm

      • @Lion
        ‘They weren’t taking it seriously.’

        Look, there is nothing to take or not to take seriously. This isn’t an effort of any kind. Actually, they were struggling to find the answer. No, I don’t get it. This has nothing to do with Jews being somehow smart – I grew up among Russians and they knew how to do math just fine. I just can’t explain this.

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 2:22 pm

      • Arithmetic isn’t math, they were put on the spot, and they didn’t WANT to look like nerdy show-offs.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 14, 2017 at 2:29 pm

      • So here they go on the show where Trump is gonna be asked, among other things, if he’d had sex with a black woman and he is gonna answer in the affirmative. This is just fine, not embarrassing. But to give the answer to 17 x 6 is embarrassing? These media people should be able to handle being on a show. Lion, you made me laugh man, you realy did. This is so funny, the guy goes: ‘Yeah, I did black women. 17×6=112’. ROFL.

        Back in the USSR they’d taught us that Math includes Arithmetic. Apparently you don’t think so. So what’s math to you?

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 3:02 pm

      • Arithmatic: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division
        Math: algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, differential equations, etc.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 14, 2017 at 3:10 pm

      • Now this is a riot. To appear on Howard Stern show, which isn’t just a disgrace to the Jewish Nation, but an affront to Humanity, is just fine and dandy, no, not at all embarrassing. So Howard goes:

        – What’s your bra size?
        – Double whatever
        – No, you look at least triple whatever
        – Do you go around without underwear?
        – I did that.

        No problem so far, right. Nice discussion going on. Amazingly informative. Now Howard goes:

        – What’s 12×7
        – Howard, this isn’t a fair question, it’s below the belt, realy. I went to Warton and I did two semesters of calculus, and I did a semester of statistics, and I did advanced finance. I know math, but this is arithmetic, we didn’t learn this in Warton.

        I wonder if the malcontents like JS and Magna could answer the question. Magna probably could. JS, not so sure about him. Lion, he could, no question about it. Maryk? That’s a wild card.

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 3:13 pm

      • ‘Arithmatic: addition, subtraction, multiplication, division
        Math: algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, differential equations, etc.’

        So how are they different conceptually? Don’t just rattle stuff off, formulate your answer in a comprehensive manner.

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 3:16 pm

      • You have more than a few who disagree with you, Yakov.

        Surviving in America is all relative if you ask me. A prole living in Indiana has a different standard from a prole living in Kew Gardens, Queens. How much money do you want?

        One thing is for sure, the elite class in America have kept a lid on those who want to access anything resembling that of Western Europe, and the people in America generally suck to make it worse.

        JS

        July 14, 2017 at 3:59 pm

      • “Maryk? That’s a wild card.”

        Yes, I got the answer. The original 17×6 was also doable also. But then I was looking at the 12×7 numbers on the screen. I hadn’t viewed this video clip. If I was put on the spot and just asked I probably would have gotten flummoxed. FYI, I completed elementary algebra and geometry in high school but went no further with math since I didn’t need to for my high school diploma. (I was aimless in high school.) The nominal math class I had to take for my BA at CUNY I hardly remember, but it wasn’t hard. I took a Statistics course in college and barely passed, but I didn’t really apply myself. I never had much interest in math. Sad. Because I know that many subjects are off-limits to you when you don’t know calculus.

        Yakov, thanks for the vote of confidence. I think!

        Maryk

        July 14, 2017 at 5:32 pm

      • they didn’t WANT to look like nerdy show-offs.

        Trump is constantly bragging about how brilliant & ivy league educated he and his kids are & they seem to enjoy playing along. I doubt they’re shy about showing off.

        pumpkinperson

        July 14, 2017 at 6:04 pm

      • I can do that math just fine sitting here but I would probably have trouble on the radio, especially on Howard Stern who I consider to be a genius.

        Magnavox

        July 15, 2017 at 4:35 am

      • One of the things that’s lost on a lot of people is that Stern is always asking members of the wack pack, many of whom are retarded, to do simple math and making fun of them when they can’t do it.

        Magnavox

        July 15, 2017 at 4:38 am

    • 17×6? That’s 34×3. In your head you can easily add 34+34+34=68+34=102.

      Trump said 112, which is correct in that Trump always exaggerates.

      Mark Caplan

      July 14, 2017 at 4:22 pm

      • Yakov – Trump is a smart guy, at most one SD less smart than me (I am just being honest here – but his 50 years of developing deal-making credibility put him out of my league when it comes to achieving the type of goals I hope he achieves, so I am not insulting him at all). His sons are At Most one SD less smart than him. In the US, when people ask you rude questions like that – another good one is what year was Lincoln elected – people will often pretend not to know. I lived in the USSR for a few months and I understand your astonishment, but, believe me, if uber-nerd Einstein had been born in New Jersey instead of some weird place in some weird Hungarian-Austro empire apartment block, and had he had (as you pointed out) the atrocious moral judgment to go on the Harold Stupid show and NOT spend the whole time negging the weird host, well Einstein would have pretended to be baffled by any shift from the typical weird stupid arrogant slopmeister conversation to an elementary school test. Einstein would have said “that is not a deep question, Harold, but there are dicey possibilities of calculating wrong in this framework.” (He would have pretended not to remember the host’s name). By the way, if someone asks you which year Lincoln was elected, the proper answer is “which election” – the questioner either says the 1860 election or obfuscates – at which point one mocks the questioner. That is how Americans do it. Some more advice: next time someone offers you a bubbly drink, say out loud “Ah, Cham-Pag-Nee”! In America, this will get you laughs: If the drink were in fact champagne, and if you immediately said “Ah cham-payne”, you would be less well thought of. America is no less complicated than the old USSR.

        howitzer daniel

        July 14, 2017 at 11:58 pm

      • Mark – Trump does not always exaggerate. Nobody I know “Always” exaggerates and I know a lot of people. Letterman – I do not know him – always exaggerated his expressions, poor guy, it seems really needy to do that. Even Conan does not Always Exaggerate his expressions, although it seems like it sometimes. Anyway, a friend of mine worked for Letterman. So of the 2,000 people I know, nobody exaggerates, and of the 20,000 people who know someone I know, one, Letterman, always exaggerates. Sort of. Still, I will remember your good advice if anyone ever asks me some weird multiplication question in the midst of some other kind of conversation. Double one number and half the other numbe., then add. Algorithmic gold. (Trump’s recent speech in defense of Western civilization did not exaggerate, for example. That is the sort of thing that is worth talking about.)

        howitzer daniel

        July 15, 2017 at 12:36 am

  3. I think he may have an alternate version of the same sort of eccentricity his father has.

    IHTG

    July 13, 2017 at 2:11 pm

  4. Totally agree with this. Yes, Donald Jr. IS smart. No, he’s not an intellectual. But he is as smart as most politicians. He’s as smart as John Kerry. But there was no political operative infrastructure behind him aside from a few political consultants. That’s what you get as an outside (not a criticism). He really just wanted to get at Hillary Clinton. That’s as deep as it gets from his perspective.

    I’m still very curious about this Goldstone guy. Apparently Natalia met with other Beltway types and they indicated that she couldn’t speak English and was incoherent. I’m not sure she had an malicious intent. Read through his emails know. He intentionally indicated in his emails that she was flying in from Moscow and specifically mentioned Russia and government numerous times in his emails. But wasn’t sure already in the U.S.? Why would he indicate that she was flying in?

    JerseyGuy

    July 13, 2017 at 3:03 pm

  5. A lot of upper class individuals who had wealth handed to them aren’t the brightest of the bulbs.

    George Dubya is an extreme example!

    JS

    July 13, 2017 at 3:07 pm

    • It is true that in order to inherit a lot of money, one only has to be breathing.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 13, 2017 at 4:08 pm

      • Inherited intelligence is mean reverting. According to the standard equations:
        Donald Jr’s IQ = 100 + 0.6 * (Donald Sr’s IQ. – 100)

        However smart Trump Sr. may be, on expectation, his son is dumber.

        trap-n-skeet

        July 14, 2017 at 1:16 am

      • Intelligence doesn’t revert to the mean like that.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 14, 2017 at 6:52 am

      • Intelligence doesn’t revert to the mean like that.

        Right, because fathers regress from their sons just as much as sons regress from their dads.

        but if all you knew about junior was his dad’s IQ & his population’s average IQ, your best guess for his IQ is between his dad’s and the population’s average. That’s because most people resemble their dads and most people are average. So regression to the mean is just splitting the difference when guessing

        pumpkinperson

        July 14, 2017 at 2:49 pm

      • theoretically speaking given:

        1. random mating

        2. ingroup mating.

        then it is true that regression is always to the mean of the breeding population, not the mean of one’s grandparents’ (if different).

        the problem is theory does not equal reality.

        an example: eye color. all of my ancestors were humans. all of them were europeans going back 10,000 years, i presume. but there is no regression to the mean in eye color in my family. that is, it’s just blue, blue, blue, etc. the mean for euopeans is between dark brown and grey. the mean for humanity is dark brown.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 14, 2017 at 4:26 pm

      • It is an empirical fact. The mean reversion coefficient of intelligence is somewhere between 0.5 and 0.7.

        http://infoproc.blogspot.se/2010/07/assortative-mating-regression-and-all.html

        In fact, if you assume that the IQ of Ivana Trump is lower than Trump Sr.’s, Donald Jr’s IQ will be (in expectation) even lower.

        trap-n-skeet

        July 14, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    • Bush wasn’t that stupid he just had a speech impediment that made him sound retarded

      Magnavox

      July 14, 2017 at 12:40 am

      • “speech impediment” is the wrong term. he didn’t stutter. “dysphasia” maybe. or maybe mild alcoholic brain damage.

        interesting thing, clinton said “between you and i”. bush 43 never made such mistakes.

        of course “mistake” means not speaking like a bush. btw, still think bush sr the best president since nixon. if only the GOP were the party of bush sr. the US would be a much better country. instead it’s the party of civil war re-enactors.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 14, 2017 at 4:36 pm

      • It is well-known that G-dob was playing the “dumb Texan” bit.
        He was no genius, make no mistake, but he could not have that low of an IQ with a mediocre GPA *from Yale,* and an MBA from Harvard.

        http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kerry-bush-gpas-at-yale-similar/

        One guy on Quora said (w/o citation) that GWB “scored 1206 on his SAT out of 1600 possible which would map to an IQ of 129”

        129!? Probably not, but definitely more than 1 standard deviation above the mean.

        trap-n-skeet

        July 14, 2017 at 6:57 pm

      • He had higher grades, sat scores, and army aptitude ratings than Kerry, who everyone thought was smart.

        He also seems stupid because the application of Republican orthodoxy was particularly destructive during his presidency.

        Magnavox

        July 15, 2017 at 4:41 am

  6. Lion,
    I’m following this on Twitter. On June 6th, Goldstone wrote “The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday”. Wasn’t Natalia already in the U.S. for months?

    JerseyGuy

    July 13, 2017 at 3:14 pm

  7. Depends on how you define “stupid”.

    I personally dislike the word. People have the IQ they’re born with, and mocking someone for having a lower IQ is just mean. But Jnr. isn’t low IQ, he’s had all the advantages and he willingly took up these responsibilities. If the word can be put to anyone, it can be put to him.

    Jesse

    July 13, 2017 at 3:16 pm

  8. Another point about paranoia: Jared Kushner, whose father went to prison for irking the authorities, realized within five minutes that the Russian lawyer had no useful information and walked out on the meeting.

    Don stuck it out for 20 minutes before he was able to accept he’d been cheated.

    Richard

    July 13, 2017 at 3:19 pm

    • Wasn’t Jared’s meeting. He could walk out whenever he wanted or not shown up at all. Once Trump took meeting, business etiquette dictates he had to hear her out. Remember, she was referred by Russian oligarch family Trump family had done business dealings with before so Trump Jr isn’t going to rudely blow her off. 20 minutes sounds about right for a polite brush off.

      PerezHBD

      July 13, 2017 at 4:39 pm

      • The meeting was arranged because her go-between said she was going to talk about Hillary’s corruption, but instead she blew a raspberry and used it to talk about something else entirely. If etiquette applies here she violated it long before Don wrapped things up, probably because he was hoping she really did have something.

        Richard

        July 13, 2017 at 7:53 pm

  9. Neither Don Jr. nor Eric seem very impressive, TBH. They’re obviously not dumb, but they don’t seem that sharp either. There’s definitely some reversion to the mean going on there. Either that or maybe Ivana isn’t that bright.

    Tom

    July 13, 2017 at 3:27 pm

    • None of them, dad included, seem capable of thinking systematically. They blow with the social wind and instincts.

      bobbybobbob

      July 13, 2017 at 5:32 pm

      • Nobody who blows with the social wind would have run the campaign Donald Trump did.

        Richard

        July 13, 2017 at 7:54 pm

      • Ivanka is the best of the bunch.

        ScarletNumber

        July 13, 2017 at 8:44 pm

      • Ivanka is the epitome of the bunch. No thoroughly principled beliefs. They’re essentially climbers.

        bobbybobbob

        July 14, 2017 at 1:58 pm

      • you’d like the New Yorker Radio Hour piece about that. lion would too.
        http://www.wnyc.org/story/my-night-mar-lago-and-jon-ronsons-kidnapped-pig

        so there’s the theory that old money and new differ only in the age of their money. this may not be true. given how much the country has changed the individual characteristics which led to making a fortune way back when may have been very different from those which led to making fortune recently.

        that is, the old and the new money may be very different in ways that actually matter.

        this is even more true in the western europe, where some of the old money is a lot older than it is in the US.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 14, 2017 at 4:43 pm

  10. “If anything, Donald Trump Jr. seems smarter than Mike Pence as well as many other politicians. ”

    Dont talk down our future President

    Lion o' the Turambar

    July 13, 2017 at 3:32 pm

  11. It is not the Trump Jr is stupid, he has just lead a very insular life.

    The Trump family business has worked with a large number of Russians other Eastern Europeans and Trump Jr has spent time in Russia. The Trump family probably just does not view the Russia as the same kind of threat that many other people do.

    The Trump and probably Trump Jr also lack an ethical compass. To the Trump family is all about winning. Rules don’t matter as long as you win. Trump has made a big point of breaking all the rules and getting away with it for years. This is just another example of the total lack of ethics that is at the heart of the Trump land.

    mikeca

    July 13, 2017 at 3:44 pm

    • mikeyca — I’m sure the Clintons are one the most righteous souls to grace the earth!

      JS

      July 13, 2017 at 4:58 pm

      • I agree with ‘mikeca’ here. Countering with what a couple of unethical shits the Clintons are proves nothing. It’s really a silly illogical response.

        I’ve known several real estate families in NYC and they have zero morals. I don’t hold it against them anymore than I hold against a cat that it has claws and will kill anything it thinks it can that moves. That’s just the way they are. But they are that way.

        Those of us who voted for him don’t consider this a bug. It’s a feature.

        But I think that Lion has a tendency to overrate the intelligence of people who go to Ivy League schools. He could easily have gotten through Wharton with a 100 IQ. I don’t think he’s stupid. I think it’s a combination of mediocre brains, no scruples, and no street sense.

        gothamette

        July 14, 2017 at 1:07 pm

      • No you can’t get through Wharton with an IQ of 100.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 14, 2017 at 2:17 pm

      • OK, I give him 10 more points. But he’s not smart, and his status isn’t “lofty”. He’s just a trashy rich boy who got took.

        gothamette

        July 14, 2017 at 2:40 pm

  12. “Someone with an IQ of 100 would flunk out”

    I don’t believe this at all. A grade is an arbitrary thing; it is not a standardized test. There is politics and arbitrary professorial leniency involved. If you show work ethic, a lot of professors will flat out never fail you. They might give you a C-, but that’s it. And students, even/especially mediocre ones, are very good at identifying which professors are lenient and filling up their classes.

    Also, there’s always cheating. Cheating is probably easier to pull off at Ivies, because many of them have honor codes and let students do things like take their final exams home while promising not to review the textbook or take more than the allotted time. Not sure where U Penn stands on this.

    And is it harder to get an A at a given undergrad course at Wharton/U Penn. than the same course at a typical flagship state university? If so, only a little bit. Most Ivy undergrads aren’t graded on a curve — almost everyone gets an A.

    I know someone who graduated cum laude from a reasonably good flagship state U. and probably only has an IQ of about 100. For example, she scored around a 950 out of 1600 on the SATs, and that was after hard preparation. Not bad at reading and writing, but she never really grasped any math beyond arithmetic. Hard worker though, and I doubt she cheated. Her major was agriculture-related. At U Penn, she probably could have majored in Art History or something and ended up with at least a 2.5 GPA. Maybe even still cum laude.

    Now, Trump Jr. majored in econ, and it might be that an Econ degree at U. Penn requires an IQ above 100. At the very least, there’s probably a very narrow path of lenient econ professors + cheating that could get you there. And you’d almost certainly just switch majors rather than try to walk that narrow path.

    Wency

    July 13, 2017 at 3:58 pm

    • You vastly underestimate the IQ difference between Ivy and state school students.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 13, 2017 at 4:18 pm

      • Really? N=1 time here: one of the great weaknesses of Charles Murray’s theories for me is that I’ve met these “elites”. They’re really not impressive; oftentimes it’s turned out that I’ve read more and more widely than they have.

        Jesse

        July 13, 2017 at 4:59 pm

      • It depends how you measure their IQs. If you use the SAT as the measure then by definition Ivy League students will be sky high because they’re selected by the SAT. If you give a test chosen at random (i.e. the WAIS) the IQ gap is much less.

        pumpkinperson

        July 13, 2017 at 5:27 pm

      • If you give a test chosen at random (i.e. the WAIS) the IQ gap is much less.

        there is no evidence for that. none.

        besides get this all. the WAIS is normed on 2,000 people! it’s a cereal box IQ test with the sole purpose of making money for its maker, Pearson. people who take these tests seriously are autistic.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 13, 2017 at 7:00 pm

      • I’ve told you the evidence countless times, but here’s just one study:

        Shelley H Carson and her colleagues gave an abbreviated version of the WAIS-R to 86 “Harvard undergraduates (33 men, 53 women), with a mean age of 20.7 years (SD 3.3)… All were recruited from sign-up sheets posted on campus. Participants were paid an hourly rate…The mean IQ of the sample was 128.1 points (SD 10.3), with a range of 97 to 148 points.”

        It should be noted however that the WAIS-R norms were 25 years old at the time of the study and the Flynn effect tells us IQ norms expire at a rate of roughly 3 points per decade so Harvard students may actually average substantially lower than 128 on the abbreviated WAIS; at least this particular group of them.

        And yet Harvard students in general average an IQ equivalent of 143 on the SAT.

        Because the SAT and WAIS are imperfectly correlated in the general U. S. population, by definition high SAT people regress to the mean on average when taking the WAIS & vice versa.

        And btw 2000 people is enough to norm a test. Gallup polls are based on even fewer people yet are more representative of the U.S. public than Fox News polls taken by millions because like the WAIS norming, the sample is matched to census demographics. Sample quality trumps quantity.

        pumpkinperson

        July 13, 2017 at 10:18 pm

      • The SAT is a better test the the WAIS, and we know very well the average SAT scores at Harvard.

      • As a Canadian I’ve never taken the SAT but it sounds like an especially biased measure of IQ given that it only measures two major abilities (verbal and math), both of which are quite sensetive to schooling, social class and tiger parenting. By contrast the WAIS is considered the gold standard, though conventional wisdom can be wrong.

        But even if the SAT is a better measure of IQ than the WAIS, that doesn’t make it a better test for Harvard students, because when you measure a group’s IQ by the very test used to recruit them, you introduce an inherit bias, regardless of what test you use.

        It’s like measuring the athletic ability of the NBA using a basketball test. That test might be more accurate than a football test but it will give inflated results for the NBA because they were selected to overperform in that area.

        pumpkinperson

        July 14, 2017 at 10:23 am

      • Lion please. I mean, please. This is pathetic. Getting into an Ivy is a matter of luck. Getting into a decent state U is much more a matter of hard work, relative to the advantages one was born into.

        The real IQ diffs are between what you study, not where. You can’t bullshit your way through a math degree at a state U. You can bullshit your way thru a liberal arts degree at Harvard, or Wharton.

        gothamette

        July 14, 2017 at 1:11 pm

      • Most state schools are nearly open admissions. And no you can’t bullshit your way through economics finance calculus accounting statistics.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 14, 2017 at 2:19 pm

      • The top ranked state U’s are not open admissions for whites.

        gothamette

        July 14, 2017 at 2:39 pm

      • Another thing, Nothing shows how clueless you are about true social status than saying that Jr. is of “lofty social class.”

        The Trumps are white trash. The little status they have comes from Ivana, who was a gold digger but of decent Czech background. (Melania is also not so bad, IMO.) But the Trumps are trash pure and simple. Ivanka takes after Mom. The boys are trash.

        Jr. is from money, not “lofty” social status, and I believe that if anything does them in, it will be their trashiness and not partisan politics, per se.

        gothamette

        July 14, 2017 at 1:32 pm

      • You can definitely bullshit your way through an economics or business (undergrad and MBA) degree. You can’t through a math degree. The math covered in economics or business degrees is very light and basic.

        Tom

        July 14, 2017 at 5:45 pm

      • The median IQ of Ivy students (~130 excluding NAMs) is way higher than the median IQ of flagship state university students (~115 excluding NAMs), but the top 10% of students at the better state universities (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, etc) beat the median Ivy student. There simply isn’t room for every Ivy-qualified student in the Ivy League, and it doesn’t make sense for families with ~140-200k income to pay 50k per year to send their kid to Ivy safety schools like Tufts, Emory, or Northwestern over UVA or Berkeley.

        PoorGradStudent

        July 15, 2017 at 4:35 am

    • Any BS from Wharton requires (or at least it did when I went there):

      2 semesters Calculus
      2 semesters Statistics
      2 semesters Economics
      1 semester of a complicated banking/macro economics/finance class
      1 semester of corporate finance

      All of these are tough classes. Soemone with only 1000 on the SAT wouldn’t hack it.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 13, 2017 at 4:23 pm

      • UPenn is a low tier Ivy League along the lines of vocational-oriented, Cornell, and it’s not even a Columbia (which get its status from its situs in NYC).

        HYP students do not need to major in a number crunching subject to enter Wall St. This debunks the myth that Ivy grads are generally smarter than the state school prole.

        JS

        July 13, 2017 at 4:54 pm

      • There’s probably a 105 IQ threshold just on being able to pass two semesters of calculus. So I think you’re right.

        And if IQ at Penn as a whole is around 125, at Wharton it’s probably 130.

        GondwanaMan

        July 13, 2017 at 6:05 pm

      • And my HYP comment above clearly indicates that America’s crony elites rigged the system so that the average prole in America grinds for a piecemeal, while they and their heirs coast an easier life of glutton and glee, irrespective of IQ and merit.

        JS

        July 13, 2017 at 7:38 pm

      • If that is indeed the program, I’ll lean towards Lion’s interpretation — IQ 100 would probably be too low to pass all that (without cheating). And with that many required difficult courses, you probably couldn’t cherry-pick easy professors.

        I agree with the evidence that the average Ivy leaguer has a significantly higher IQ than the average state schooler. But Lion’s original statement was about flunking out. The qualities needed to avoid flunking out of an Ivy League school and a state school are pretty similar, and diligence is much more important than IQ.

        Wency

        July 13, 2017 at 11:37 pm

    • Someone with only a 1000 SAT could graduate Penn with an easy major like Sociology (but with a gpa below 3.0), but Jr. chose Wharton which is harder.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 13, 2017 at 4:26 pm

      • Remember the Steve Hsu study? He said people with very low levels of cognitive ability (like SAT 900/1600) were capable of maintaining 3.5 GPAs…at least at University of Oregon.

        GondwanaMan

        July 13, 2017 at 6:55 pm

      • In majors like sociology, at least

        GondwanaMan

        July 13, 2017 at 6:58 pm

      • Anyone who lacks a liberal arts education can be a detriment when it comes to interpreting gray and subtle areas of life and politics is one of those areas. Perhaps this will be the undoing of the Trump family and their strictly business oriented mentality.

        A somewhat off, but good example, is a tax lawyer vs a tax accountant when it comes to interpreting the IRS tax code. Technicians like accountants are all about dualism, yes or no, black n white, while tax lawyers can interpret the code from an ethical or a philosophical standpoint.

        JS

        July 13, 2017 at 7:52 pm

      • “Anyone who lacks a liberal arts education can be a detriment when it comes to interpreting gray and subtle areas of life and politics is one of those areas.”

        It’s good to have exposure to history and whatnot. But a liberal arts education doesn’t fix stupid or crazy. And it doesn’t make much sense unless one is already rich. My recommendation is to get a degree in something that will make money then get your “liberal arts education” with a library card.

        destructure

        July 14, 2017 at 11:36 am

      • destructure is right. but blaming people for decisions they made when they were 18-22 isn’t getting at the problem. their parents were missing in action. and practical subjects can be tedious.

        paying for “education” and not just books, standardized tests, and labs should be illegal. instead the labs are taught by TAs. the one legit part of formal education isn’t done by the profs.

        and it’s not as if natsci majors have good job prospects. but if natscis were forced to me more practical they might.

        at the same time there is a large contingent, probably the majority, of practical people who are just plain boring. they don’t read. they can’t.

        a technocracy and a meritocracy are two very different things.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 14, 2017 at 4:53 pm

    • I’m not sure it would be impossible to make it at Wharton with a 100 IQ. The Harvard IQ study where the average was 128 had someone score only 98.

      But I agree, someone with only a 100 IQ would be near the bottom of the class.

      GondwanaMan

      July 13, 2017 at 5:51 pm

      • Actually, now that I think about it, you’re right. Wharton is harder than normal Penn.

        GondwanaMan

        July 13, 2017 at 5:53 pm

    • > If you show work ethic, a lot of professors will flat out never fail you. They might give you a C-, but that’s it.

      This is true, especially outside of STEM and foreign languages. In other majors grading is much more subjective.

      > probably only has an IQ of about 100. For example, she scored around a 950 out of 1600 on the SATs

      Someone who can’t crack 4 digits on the SAT is of below-average intelligence.

      ScarletNumber

      July 13, 2017 at 6:40 pm

      • On a 1600 point scale, the average is 1000, but only people going to college take the SAT, so just average on the SAT is above average for the population as a whole.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 13, 2017 at 6:48 pm

      • I’ve mentioned before that when I took the SAT in the late 1970’s I got a 460 verbal score, nearly 20 years later tested myself on 2 SAT verbals at home and got 610 and 620 and with about a year and 3 months of study got the score up to 750 where I plateaued. And the ironic thing is that I always was a good reader and imagined I had a good vocabulary. But even a (slightly) above average IQ isn’t going to insure that you get a good SAT score if you don’t study vocabulary words. And strangely enough, my pathetic 460 score still put me in the top 20% of those who took the SAT that year!

        I know that Lion will say I’m a statistical anomaly and that there are few people with my IQ who fail to study for the SAT at all and just take the test cold, so my situation doesn’t disprove the SAT as the best IQ predictor around. I guess there is really no way to measure how many “high potential-low achievers” any nation has.

        Maryk

        July 14, 2017 at 8:52 pm

      • Years ago there was a book published by the mother of a student who got a perfect 800 SAT verbal score (in the days of the old 0-1600 scale.) It consisted of a list of every book her son had read since he was old enough to read. The selling point was supposed to be that if you wanted your kid to get a perfect score you should follow the list. While all the books were fine books, there is no way anyone could get a perfect score just by learning the words in these books because most of them were CHILDREN’S books – lightweight stuff. Sorry, but her son used extensive lists of vocabulary words – the kind of words that are not even used in books aimed at high school students, let alone children. Such as the 3.500 word list in the Barron’s SAT book. The very fact that she kept a list of every book her son ever read shows you that she was the kind of mother who would certainly buy a book designed specifically to help your child learn SAT vocabulary words. Most likely she tested him at home on them.

        My point in bringing this up is to show that there are many common misconceptions about the SAT.

        Maryk

        July 14, 2017 at 9:01 pm

    • “A grade is an arbitrary thing; it is not a standardized test. There is politics and arbitrary professorial leniency involved. ”

      No, not that much any more. The libertarians had a national campaign and every college now has these teacher evaluations by students, objective rubrics, peer-reviews, etc. to prevent that. I took classes at a top state college recently and was impressed at the rise in quality compared to the mumbling geriatrics and crazed off-topic socialist weenies of the old days.

      IMHO that objectivity is exactly why the far-Left is coming up with these ridiculous behavior-policing campaigns. It gives them ground to make bizarre attacks on students they don’t like. That’s also why they’re attacking PR-savvy libertarianist student groups like YAL and SFL that inform students of their procedural rights and will sue these morons.

      Also, I gotta say there is generally a very big IQ difference in Ivy schools, plus 950 V=M SAT is OK, about 110+ IQ from what other counselors tell me (I volunteer counselor for local students). I could tell you more if I knew the verbal…Good enough to be college-ready and get through with hard work though not deep insight.

      rob

      July 13, 2017 at 10:27 pm

  13. Seeing a President Trump, Jr. in the future wouldn’t shock me (this current Russian lawyer “scandal” will long since have blown over). Kushner seems like someone who is a little more comfortable behind the throne. If anything, Donald Jr.’s sorta feckless skullduggery here implies that he might not be cut out for the secret fixer role. Populist movements tend to be favorable toward dynastism.

    Greg Pandatshang

    July 13, 2017 at 4:07 pm

  14. He’s not stupid, he just made a stupid mistake. That being said i think that the dark horse Trump, Eric, is actually the brightest. He is razor sharp in tv interviews and seems to be naturally hard right conservative. What he lacks in looks he makes up for with tenacity. I wouldn’t be surprised if Eric became the political successor. Don Jr. is now damaged goods and Ivanka is too liberal to be trusted.

    B.T.D.T.

    July 13, 2017 at 6:28 pm

    • Gotta love Trump Sr. who vacillates a lot. Paree was no longer a wonderful ville (hinting the multicult cesspoolite reminiscent of NYC), but when he meets the French Macaron, yummy, the city of lights are now full of delights.

      I think 2020 will be his last, if America lasts!

      JS

      July 13, 2017 at 7:14 pm

      • the city of lights are is now full of delights

        JS

        July 13, 2017 at 7:21 pm

    • Right. You can’t teach guile. Both of my parents are academics, but if I was silly/desperate enough to ever put them to work for me, they’d swirl the drain.

      driveallnight

      July 14, 2017 at 5:03 am

      • Whoops, reply in wrong threadline, but lion’s high IQ readership’ll figure it.

        driveallnight

        July 14, 2017 at 5:08 am

  15. Smart people like commenters here have a HUGE sample bias because they are all college educated and have high IQs at least 1 or 2 standard deviations above the mean, and all of their friends, families, and media they consume is at that level.

    They assume that everyone is a genius like they are, and when someone can’t integrate a cone on the fly they assume they are retarded. They have no idea what a stupid person looks or sounds like. Just by looking at Trump or Don Jr. one can tell they are of above average intelligence. A stupid person can never even put on the proper clothing or shave or articulate full sentences, and they make up the majority.

    jjbees

    July 13, 2017 at 6:34 pm

    • Plenty of 80-90 IQ blacks can present as “functioning”.

      GondwanaMan

      July 13, 2017 at 6:56 pm

      • They are clearly above-average in intelligence.
        Although it is fair to point out that much of a person’s image in the media is crafted. (This generally works against people the media is unfavorable towards. So in the case of Don Jr it’s highly unlikely the media will gloss over his gaffes.)

        Panther of the Blogocube

        July 13, 2017 at 11:01 pm

      • I guess what I was trying to say that is that 80-90 IQ blacks (and trust me, I’ve known plenty) don’t seem to have any deficits in dressing, basic hygiene, knowing how to maintain their appearance, handling simple conversations, etc relative to higher IQ people.

        GondwanaMan

        July 14, 2017 at 3:02 am

    • “Smart people like commenters here have a HUGE sample bias because they are all college educated and have high IQs …”

      RIGHT. My read is that he just got trapped by zany rules he had no reasonable expectation would be there in the first place. Where were his attorneys? They’re just as confused. Experienced politicians and attorneys get confused or drummed out because of some technical rule meant to benefit the bureaucrats.

      rob

      July 13, 2017 at 10:32 pm

      • But these “zany rules” only apply to Trump. There is far more real evidence between Hillary and Podesta “colluding” and meeting foreign representatives than with the Trump non story.

        Mike Street Station

        July 15, 2017 at 8:57 am

      • such as? Right wing denial about Trump’s corruption is getting tiresome. Everyone knew who Trump was before they voted for him. He’s been in the public eye for 30 years.

        Peter Akuleyev

        July 15, 2017 at 12:01 pm

  16. At least Fredo was a successful casino operator.

    ScarletNumber

    July 13, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    • Wasn’t he a pimp?

      850 SAT

      July 13, 2017 at 7:57 pm

      • Didn’t he get smacked around my Moe Green for being incompetent?

        Magnavox

        July 14, 2017 at 7:09 am

      • Didn’t he get smacked around my Moe Green for being incompetent?”

        What else could Moe do? He was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time. The stupid guido.

        Maryk

        July 14, 2017 at 10:27 am

    • Food for thought:

      We all agree that the Left/liberals are blind/insane when it comes to racial and sexual realities and all HBD related matters.

      But I’m thinking the Right/free market/capitalists are equally blind/insane when it comes to the reality of the workplace. They are so dismissive and blase about workers rights, wages, and the total leverage employers have over workers (which is 90% of people). The disdain these people have for the mere idea that workers should get more than 2 weeks vacation. They immediately start screaming about it turning the country to France!

      It’s always easy to champion free markets/capitalism when YOU don’t work for anybody.

      And for decades the Right has convinced (white) workers to vote for them (the employers), but has not returned the loyalty a bit.

      fakeemail

      July 14, 2017 at 1:47 pm

  17. The “Trump,jr,” is a gamma (psy dominant, socially rejective) pretending to be beta (psy dominant, socially submissive) most of the time (nothing to do with beta rage, it’s more of the yes man corporate profile) and in rare instances even alpha (psy and socially dominant , like the Donald). A socially rejective person will always be bad at politics or business. He will fail his father. It’s not an IQ question.

    Bruno

    July 13, 2017 at 6:54 pm

  18. Someone with an IQ of only 100 (average) would definitely flunk out of Wharton.

    hardly. the gpa IQ correlation is pathetic. this is why the american elite is so dumb. only the candian elite is dumber.

    Beverly Hills Ninja

    July 13, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    • “only the candian elite is dumber.”

      Apparently Beverly Hills Ninja doesn’t rate to even make the ‘candian elite’…

      rob

      July 13, 2017 at 10:35 pm

      • you seem to believe that the US is the only country in the world. that’s common among americans. the US and canada are among only a handful of countries where admission and degree rank are not determined exclusively by standardized cumulative exam scores. and in the US it’s much worse than canada. no other countries’ unis have opaque subjective idiosyncratic admissions and grading. no extra curriculars, no three letters of recommendation, essay, no rich parents buying a place for their mediocre kids.

        the result is a lot of mediocre grinds at the top of both countries.

        but maybe you identify with mediocre grinds.

        if lion had the same ability in the uk or germany or japan he would be the success that he thinks he isn’t. he’d have gotten into the top 10 law school or b-school. and this would have afforded him opportunities ASU did not.

        it is odd that the one country on earth where IQ is least selected for deliberately is the one where the ideology of social rank = IQ is most entrenched. it’s 1984 in ‘mer’castan. war is peace.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 13, 2017 at 11:45 pm

      • Comparing America to Canada:

        America is a less happy place than Canada, because it is perceived not as free, and there is a starker income inequality among its citizens. There is also a significantly lower educational attainment among its college educated. Not only are there more Canadians with college degrees, Canadian schools are more rigorous and their curriculum is more well rounded (stimulating more intellectual curiosity and better traveled individuals). Canadians are better traveled than Americans who come across as more parochial.

        America has the highest gini coefficient in the industrialized world, and this is a measure of high income inequality, with the lowest civic participation, coming from its lack of demographic integration and its priority with money over human interactions. Then there is something what I call a lower intellectual engagement among the educated (typical of all Anglophone societies, but America being the worse). It sucks to be a smart person in America, who does not participate in its corporate rat race.

        Donald Trump is the culmination of this lack of intellectualism and a throwback to America’s formative years. Not necessarily a bad thing if you’re a White American with a purpose of making “America Great Again”, after decades of dysfunctional multi-pluralism done by design.

        JS

        July 14, 2017 at 6:31 pm

      • and then if this thread were still active a conservative would chime in, “what’s wrong with a super high GINI?” political corruption for one. lack of opportunity and a neurosis over class for another. only britain is worse than the US in its lack of social mobility. its top 10% are similarly obsessed by class. canada’s social mobility is equal to or better than scandinavia’s. in both cases this may be because educational attainment depends on “grades” rather than cumulative exams, the latter being more g-loaded and thus attainment more heritable. i thin scandinavia’s system is like canada’s. but afaik that’s it. with all other countries there basically aren’t things called “grades” in the american sense of very short term assessments which vary from one instructor to another.

        i agree with JS and morris berman. the US can’t be saved. it’s problems are due to something essential in the american character. but it’s still the greatest country in the world in freedom of speech.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 15, 2017 at 12:42 am

      • An original thinker outside of the box of the LoftB and Yakov’s world, will tell that Canada cherry picks it candidates to fit an eugenics’ program. Not only are the schools more rigorous in Canada, immigration filtering is tougher and more selective.

        News have been spreading that Canadians who are losers with college enrollment, have found solace in America’s lax college admissions process and lower educational standards. America accepts Canadian trash without hesitation. Despite America’s more generous criteria, Canada manages to educate more people at the higher levels of education.

        Some of the HBD oriented commenters here mistakenly believe that Canada is a shoddy nation, comparing to the shopping arena south of her with a warmer climate and a contentious population like hagglers at a flea market.

        The Red Leaf wants to become a Scandinavia, a Germany, a Japan, and French Speaking Canada wants to become a 1st world Spain. It’s true, except Anglophone Canada might gradually surrender its virtues to fit in with the rest of the degenerate Anglo Prole Sphere.

        JS

        July 15, 2017 at 11:41 am

      • Eugenics is evil. Canada is merely looking for immigrants who can contribute to the Canadian workforce (at the expense of Canadian national workers).

      • So the Somalies went through a rigorous Canadian eugenics selection? What were the criteria, if I may ask?

        Yakov

        July 15, 2017 at 10:29 pm

      • JS,

        When Canada gets the same percentage of savages that the US has, thanks to Trudeau’s policies, it, too, will achieve the same results as the USA.

        map

        July 15, 2017 at 11:19 pm

  19. 2 semesters of calculus means just single variable calculus. And calculus courses for economics and business students tend to be really easy. There’s no proofs involved, and no real derivation and explanation and understanding of calculus involved. What you study in those courses is just a few algebraic rules to apply to certain problems. Anyone who’s gone through algebra can pass those courses.

    Tom

    July 13, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    • “2 semesters of calculus means just single variable calculus. … What you study in those courses is just a few algebraic rules to apply to certain problems. Anyone who’s gone through algebra can pass those courses.”

      Sure, anybody who can do calculus like Newton is a dummy. Too bad Newton couldn’t do deep proofs like they do today.

      rob

      July 13, 2017 at 10:42 pm

      • not deep? it’s just that newton used infinitesimals whereas today calculus is taught using limits. but newton wasn’t wrong or shallow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinitesimal

        i expect the majority of penn students took caclulus in hs.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 13, 2017 at 11:50 pm

      • You don’t do calculus like Newton did in calculus courses today. Newton actually derived calculus and did the proofs.

        Tom

        July 14, 2017 at 1:09 am

      • ‘Newton actually derived calculus and did the proofs.’

        Tell me about it! This is how we did math in the USSR, but when I was taking a calculus course in Israel, we we using Shaum’s outline series.This is in a Jewish State! A bittere gelechter (laughing through tears)! Obviously I felt like a total idiot and dropped out. In the USSR your calculus textbook was a brick that could kill a man had it fallen out a window. To me the Soviet way in math is the only right way.

        Yakov

        July 14, 2017 at 8:06 am

    • Elite schools have a two semester sequence: one semester of single variable followed by one semester of multivariable.

      Magnavox

      July 14, 2017 at 12:15 am

  20. If you watch The Apprentice, Jr. comes across as the smartest of the three children and the only one who inherited his father’s charisma and raw energy. There is a submissiveness because as long as his father is alive and functional, The Donald remains the Alpha of the family, but Don Jr is ready to take over.

    PerezHBD

    July 13, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    • Listen to yourself.
      Why the fanboyism? What did Donal Jr. ever did for/to you?
      Has reading Lion’s blog taught you nothing about skepticism, critical thinking and a healthy dose of cynicism?

      You sound like my 14-year old niece talking about those hunger games novellas…

      trap-n-skeet

      July 14, 2017 at 1:24 am

      • Donald Jr. has entertained me on both the show and his Twitter account with his quick wit and high level trolling so it is false to say he’s never done anything for me. And nobody is arguing Don Jr. is the next Julius Evola or Murray Rothbard. He’s not an intellectual, but no US politician is. Trump Jr. is clearly as sharp as his father and as smart as any President we’ve had since Nixon.

        Neither Trump, Ivanka, or Don Jr successfully answered the question “what is 17 time 6?” though Trump assures us both kids got WAY over 1500 on their SAT’s (this was on the 1600 scale days) and they both got 800’s on their math section:

        PerezHBD

        July 14, 2017 at 7:36 am

    • Donald Trump doesn’t have charisma, he has a salesman’s personality (a truly vile thing).

      Anthony

      July 14, 2017 at 10:00 am

      • He’s very not cerebral or what we call as prole on this blog. His credentials and those of his heirs are all business school types, who are the least intellectual among STEM and liberal arts students.

        JS

        July 14, 2017 at 1:07 pm

  21. Having a fairly high IQ but being naive and sheltered is hardly a glowing recommendation, or a good legal defense. In fact it makes Don Jr. sound like a typical cosseted Ivy League student. Reagan had the good judgement to see that his kids belonged far away from the White House (or maybe Nancy did). Trump trusts relies on his inexperienced children and scheming son-in-law. Not a good omen.

    Peter Akuleyev

    July 14, 2017 at 4:14 am

    • I’m quite surprised how LoftB’s regular commenters think a Wharton degree is a true Ivy League credential.

      It’s not. UPenn is along the lines of Cornell, a vocational school, a bottom tier Ivy. It has a lower status than Columbia, simply because of its aura as a vocational institution and its location in Philly (Columbia doesn’t have a business undergrad program, and neither does HYP).

      Sr. according to his biography initially went to Fordham, another vocational oriented school. It’s a school mostly reserved for White gentiles from the middle class suburbs, looking to strive and hopefully become upper middle class in the Northeast urban centers. Plenty of Irish and Italian types and Germanics from yesteryear, because it’s Catholic in nature. A school of this sort is frowned upon by those who have attained WASP status, those who are Jews and East Asians (the last 2 groups are far more overrepresented than middle class, Whites at the upper Ivy Leagues).

      JS

      July 14, 2017 at 1:02 pm

      • The Ivy League is a league of eight specific schools. Any degree from one of those schools is a true Ivy League credential.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 14, 2017 at 2:24 pm

      • except for cornell. wink wink.

        Beverly Hills Ninja

        July 14, 2017 at 4:57 pm

      • Right, when Cornell played football at Penn, the crowd chanted “State school. State school.”

  22. Lion,
    I’ve gone full conspiracy now. Basically the former Russian spy is a FusionGPS employee:

    https://www.circa.com/story/2017/04/05/nation/a-key-senator-said-a-former-russian-spy-is-lobbying-without-registering-as-a-foreign-agent

    https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/complaint-firm-behind-dossier-former-russian-intel-officer-joined-lobbying-effort

    Here is what I think happened. I don’t think this was set up specifically by Susan Rice or any of these attendees for this purpose. The FusionGPS organization was lobbying to get rid of the Act. However, they used these emails after the fact as a way to alert Susan Rice and Loretta Lynch about meetings with “Russians” as a way to get a FISA warrant. Perhaps they told Goldstone to write the emails that way in order to trigger certain search words for FISA requests? Goldstone might just be a useful idiot in this regards.

    Again, I don’t think Rice or Lynch specifically set this up from the beginning. But used the knowledge they got from FusionGPS to get the FISA warrant.

    What say you?

    JerseyGuy

    July 14, 2017 at 11:35 am

    • no need to apologize.

      there are events and there are stories told using those events.

      often a “conspiracy theory” is merely a story which differs from the official story which is the story of the msm. that is, whatever the events there will be a story including these events which most americans will hear via the airwaves or read. this story is told by people who are biased, corrupt, and at the same time ill-informed. the msm doesn’t know the full story, because no one does or ever can except in specific cases.

      by “msm” i of course mean “men who have sex with men”.

      Beverly Hills Ninja

      July 14, 2017 at 5:05 pm

    • Why do we need conspiracy theories? Donald Trump is a known quantity, Don Jr. is a know quantity, Veselnitskaya is a known quantity. None of what happened is particularly odd, given what we know. Veselnitskaya was lobbying everyone she could find to get rid of the Magnitsky act – that is her job. Don Jr. is an inexperienced political operative who did what a businessman would do – met with someone offering information that would allow him to beat the competition. Trump has been covering up for his son’s mistake because Trump is loyal to his kids to a fault, and probably doesn’t see this as a big deal. Both the left and the right are losing their minds about this, it ain’t that complicated.

      Peter Akuleyev

      July 15, 2017 at 4:06 am

  23. Today’s drip drip development is it turns out Natalia Veselnitskaya did not come alone to the meeting. She was accompanied by Rinat Akhmetshin, a former Soviet counterintelligence officer who is now a lobbyist in the US for Russia and Russian companies. US intelligence suspects that Akhmetshin still has ties to Russian intelligence.

    mikeca

    July 14, 2017 at 12:00 pm

    • This “ties” think is a lot of bogus innuendo, to make innocent things sound sinister. Whenever someone says “ties” I assume it means they are nothing more than Facebook friends until proven that there is anything deeper than that.

    • Read the background on him. He’s met with numerous lawmakers and journalists over the last few years.

      JerseyGuy

      July 14, 2017 at 1:40 pm

    • so what?

      did trump jr swear fealty to putin in exchange for dirt on clinton?

      no.

      y’all don’t get it. the russia stuff has nothing to do with trump per se. its ultimate purpose is to prevent bernie and his bros from taking over the dem party.

      Beverly Hills Ninja

      July 14, 2017 at 5:08 pm

  24. If Trump Jr was anything like his father, he would be more manipulative and a little paranoid. In some interview, Trump said something to the effect, “I don’t trust anyone”.

    GondwanaMan

    July 14, 2017 at 4:09 pm

    • It’s probably wise for someone with that much money and business interests not to trust anyone. People are constantly trying to put something over on the rich and famous. Marla Maples sure as heck did.

      destructure

      July 14, 2017 at 8:36 pm

  25. Seems to be a new consensus on NeoGaf that these Don Jr. Russia revelations are the end of Trump. They are citing Shep Smith speaking out about this issue as proof that “even Fox” is abandoning Trump: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1406238

    Man these people are delusional.

    Otis the Sweaty

    July 14, 2017 at 10:19 pm

    • Smith is evidence that a flaming liberal (as well as a flaming homosexual) works at FOX. Everyone knows he’s a leftist. But he ~usually~ keeps it to himself.

      The msm can scream “FIRE!” til they’re blue in the face. Their audience eats it up but republicans don’t believe their smoke. Trump’s support is rock solid. I figure plenty of Republican congressmen would love to oust Trump. But not while his numbers are so high among Republicans. It would be political suicide.

      destructure

      July 15, 2017 at 1:38 am

    • Seems to be a new consensus on NeoGaf that these Don Jr. Russia revelations are the end of Trump.

      They just seem to enjoy the emotional roller coaster.

      It’s another non issue for them to get their hopes up about and then down they go.

      They are citing Shep Smith speaking out about this issue as proof that “even Fox” is abandoning Trump

      Shep Smith is an example of the “hysterical homosexual type”.

      Donald Trump Jr. has a first amendment right to speak with and associate with whomever he likes.

      No crime, no collusion. Weak attempt at “opposition research”.

      Next.

      Trump’s problem isn’t the Democrats or the media it’s scum like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell etc and the other Republican dirtbags who want to import more Democrat voters and cut taxes on more Democrat rich people.

      Rifleman

      July 15, 2017 at 4:53 am

    • “Man these people are delusional.”

      Why shouldn’t they be? If you just read a newspaper or watch network news, that’s the message they’re putting out.

      Mike Street Station

      July 15, 2017 at 9:08 am

  26. The Mainstrem Media straightforwardly describes Rinat Akhmetshin as a Russian spy and an American citizen.

    Mark Caplan

    July 14, 2017 at 11:05 pm

  27. OT:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/news/house-appropriations-committee-allows-daca-recipients-work-federal-government

    House Appropriations Committee Allows DACA Amnesty Recipients to Compete with Americans for Federal Jobs

    map

    July 15, 2017 at 12:21 am

  28. Interestingly, Scott Adams said that a smart person would have gone to the meeting and a dumb person wouldn’t have gone.

    ttgy

    July 15, 2017 at 7:23 pm

  29. Mates your discussion of the IQ level necessary to pass college calculus is off base. The correct question is what IQ level allows one to master, obviously without cheating, and retain the material taught? And that, boys and girls, is a completely different story. I would think that it’s probably a good SD above what you need to weasel your way through. I don’t know, just guessing. I always wanted to master, not to pass – and this is how I know that I’m low IQ. There is simply no question about it.

    Yakov

    July 16, 2017 at 11:25 am

    • Good Point. There is even a difference between PHD’s is math and the few mathematicians who do real ground breaking work.

      Most PHD physicists , while smart, don’t come close to Einstein, Bohr, Fermi etc.

      ttgy

      July 17, 2017 at 6:39 pm

  30. I overheard a conversation on a bus one evening between two Harvard freshmen. One confessed that, until moving to Cambridge, he didn’t realize the state of New York was not part of New England. Christ, I knew that when I was six. Care to guess the I.Q. of that young luminary?

    Jimmy Kangaroo

    July 18, 2017 at 11:28 am


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