Lion of the Blogosphere

The hierarchy of victimhood

A former Christian who is now an atheist and speaks out against Christianity would surely be considered one of the good guys.

A former Muslim who is now an atheist and speaks out against Islam is considered an “anti-Muslim extremist” spreading “hate.”

However, I would not say that such person is a “liberal.” She is letting her (quite justified) dislike of her former religion get in the way of proper liberal thinking. Victimized groups should never be criticized, not ever.

* * *

I believe that Islam is in the process of being reformed, but not in the direction that Ayaan Hirsi Ali wants. The reformation that’s happening is that Muslims are discovering the literal words of the Koran, and the Hadiths which tell the story of Mohammed’s life, and that’s leading many Muslims to change their beliefs to be more like those of ISIS and the Taliban.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

August 24, 2017 at 1:55 pm

Posted in Religion

58 Responses

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  1. ‘She is letting her (quite justified) dislike of her former religion get in the way of proper liberal thinking. Victimized groups should never be criticized, not ever.’

    You lost me here. 1. What’s the problem with her think? 2. Why can’t victimized groups be criticized? Or you think that she is saying that?

    Can you spell it out for me?

    Yakov

    August 24, 2017 at 2:14 pm

  2. At first it seemed strange to me that the left would reject this woman and embrace Linda Sarsour, but then I remembered that the left gave Eldridge Cleaver a pass on being a serial rapist. That’s how extreme their black and white thinking is and it’s been that way for at least 50 years.

    Horace Pinker

    August 24, 2017 at 2:16 pm

    • Linda Sarsour knows how to play the liberal game.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 24, 2017 at 2:23 pm

    • Just out of curiosity I googled Sarsour’s view on gay marriage. Really, I respect the sharia enthusiasts who stick to their beliefs more than the ones who are basically mascots for the left.

      Jeremy Cooper

      August 24, 2017 at 3:44 pm

      • Sharia enthusiasts aren’t too bothered by gay marriage (for now), because they see it as a step towards legal polygamy.

        snorlaxwp

        August 24, 2017 at 9:27 pm

      • Sharia enthusiasts aren’t too bothered by gay marriage

        Sarsour’s muslim countries are as anti-gay as any place in the world.

        Maybe she can tell us when muslim countries will become as tolerant of gay marriage as they are of interracial marriage.

        Pro sharia people in the US are not happy about gay marriage anywhere.

        Rifleman

        August 25, 2017 at 8:40 am

      • Somewhat off topic, but have you noticed how SWPLs love to use the term “folks.” Maybe it’s just me, but every time I see the term, I have to brace myself for another Saint Hillary/Devil Donald diatribe.

        Apparently Barry had something to do with this:

        https://www.quora.com/Why-does-President-Obama-like-and-use-the-word-folks-so-much

        The Shepherd

        August 25, 2017 at 12:25 pm

    • It wouldn’t seem strange if you realized that modern liberals are a bunch of borderline personality disordered nutcases, and not people who hate injustice.

      gothamette

      August 25, 2017 at 1:56 pm

      • I have never seen one of these generalizations about the political parties that didn’t come off as completely ridiculous. How anyone can fully embrace or reject one of the parties is completely beyond me. And even the Trumpist such as the commentators here, who I more or less agree with and I guess you do as well, have their own panoply of psychological deficits and illnesses.

        Magnavox

        August 25, 2017 at 3:01 pm

  3. I’m a big fan of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and read her book, Infidel several years ago. It does seem odd that SHE is now on their public enemy list, since in theory she should be everything the left would want to be on their side. However they’ve gone so identity crazy that there really is a hierarchy of victimhood, in which a black Somali feminist atheist is below Islam.

    That is crazy!

    Mike Street Station

    August 24, 2017 at 3:45 pm

    • Daniel Greenfield’s post on victim value index (vvi) explains this.
      http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-minority-victim-value-index.html

      VVI status is group based but can be forfeited by an individual who engages in counterrevolutionary behavior, thereby forfeiting a status awarded to his group for its revolutionary disruptiveness. Any minority group member who aligns with conservatives is immediately assigned the same VVI status as a white male. A low-status VVI who offends a high-status VVI group may be treated the same way.

      destructure

      August 24, 2017 at 4:38 pm

    • She is very good indeed and I like her too. But why would you be surprised though? While Iran was holding American hostages and humiliating the country, Jimmy Carter and the US Congress, who were tolerating this humiliation, were lashing out at the Soviet Union for preventing the establishment of an Islamic state on its borders and supplying arms to the Islamists.

      I think she should get the Nobel Peace Prize. Who’s more deserving then she?

      Yakov

      August 24, 2017 at 6:05 pm

      • On the same day as the Iran hostage crisis started, the Afghan communists kidnapped and shot the US ambassador. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Dubs

        snorlaxwp

        August 24, 2017 at 10:25 pm

      • According to the link that you’ve provided the identity of the kidnappers had not been established. The article doesn’t attribute the kidnapping to the Afghan government or to the Soviets. To use this incident as a pretext to arm Mujahideen is pure politics and bears no relationship to the actual events. At any rate, Carter was decrying ‘an invasion of an Islamic country by an atheist Soviet state’. What does the murder of the ambassador have to do with it?

        Yakov

        August 25, 2017 at 12:04 am

      • Carter was decrying ‘an invasion of an Islamic country by an atheist Soviet state’. What does the murder of the ambassador have to do with it?

        The Soviets should have respected Afghan sovereignty and not invaded and the Iranians should have respected US embassy sovereignty and not taken it over.

        Rifleman

        August 25, 2017 at 8:49 am

      • Should the USA have respected the Afghan sovereignity?

        Yakov

        August 25, 2017 at 12:40 pm

    • See my reply to Horace Pinker.

      gothamette

      August 25, 2017 at 1:56 pm

  4. Rocket Raccoon from Guardians of the Galaxy is the ultimate victim

    Garr

    August 24, 2017 at 4:06 pm

    • “What would Rocket do?” is the question I ask myself whenever making a major decision

      driveallnight

      August 24, 2017 at 5:29 pm

  5. The best thing you could do would be to stop using the term “liberal,” and substitute “anti-white.” From the ’70’s through the ’90’s, religion of any kind was so thoroughly looked down on by self-described liberals, that the sudden enthusiasm for Muslims can only be the result of white-hatred.

    Explainer 21

    August 24, 2017 at 4:26 pm

    • That’s their motto for 2020;

      “We hate Whitey even more.”

      map

      August 24, 2017 at 5:38 pm

    • No, it was more of an anti-Western thing. Liberals always liked Buddhism, the Dali Lama, and exotic tribal religions.

      I’m having trouble remembering what an enlightened person was supposed to think about Muslims 20 years ago, because before 2001 my sense is that Islam was almost totally ignored by Western society. I don’t think future generations will be able to understand how utterly irrelevant to our lives that religion used to seem, right up until it became Vitally Important.

      Richard

      August 24, 2017 at 6:10 pm

    • This is true. The feminist and atheist Ali should be far more palatable to socialists and leftists than people who believe in an archaic patriarchal religion. The American “left” today truly has nothing in common with the historical principles of socialism. The left got hijacked by the anti-colonalist movement during the 1960s and has just gotten worse.

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 25, 2017 at 4:17 am

  6. I refer to that as the “social justice hierarchy”. It’s not based on real justice or fairness. It’s based entirely on power. Various demographic groups want to extort money, privilege and political power. They don’t have the numbers to do it independently so they form a coalition. Of course, not everyone in the coalition has the same clout; hence, the hierarchy.

    This wouldn’t work if they just came out and said it was about money, privilege and power. So they invent a pretext based on historical grievances (both real and imagined) and prop it up with a never-ending stream of canards ie achievement gap, institutional discrimination, class/income, race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, immigration status, etc. This has the quadruple whammy of creating a pretext for extortion and discrimination as well as shielding them from criticism and keeping the members of those groups angry and on-board.

    My thoughts are hardly original as I’m sure most people have made the same observations — especially those employing the tactic.

    destructure

    August 24, 2017 at 4:29 pm

    • all of those things are promoted so that the subject of “class/income” can be avoided. both the dems and the GOP are the party of the plutocracy. it’s just that the dems pretend they aren’t, and the GOP doesn’t. identity politics is just one yuge FAKE. the GOP gets the poor heterosexual whites. the dems get the non-whites and homos. but neither party has anything to offer them.

      ron burgundy

      August 24, 2017 at 11:31 pm

      • Yup.

        Curle

        August 24, 2017 at 11:56 pm

  7. Yes I don’t know why people think Islam needs a Reformation. That made Christians more rabid for a few hundred years before burning out.

    What Islam needs is modern decadence.

    Mrs Stitch

    August 24, 2017 at 5:30 pm

    • Great point. In fact Muslims have gone through such periods in the past.

      gothamette

      August 25, 2017 at 1:57 pm

  8. Convert? What’s the difference? Who cares what one anti-White group has to say about another?

    The biggest problem with these atheist, former-whatever, is that they just become anti-religious bigots. Then they just start hating whitey.

    The problem with Ayaan Hirsi Ali is that she is not interested in protecting the West. She is interested in using the West to reform Islam.

    map

    August 24, 2017 at 5:41 pm

    • Map, you couldn’t be more wrong, just listen to her talk. I don’t have any problem with her.

      Yakov

      August 24, 2017 at 6:39 pm

    • Ayaan Hirsi Ali is Western. She’s inculcated modern Western values. He idea of reforming Islam is to make it more compatible with the West and less crazy.

      Mike Street Station

      August 24, 2017 at 9:09 pm

      • Which is why her quest is pointless. If I was a Muslim, why would I want my religion reformed by a professed atheist? She’s the worst possible messenger — real Muslims can see that her values are in conflict with the Koran.

        Richard

        August 25, 2017 at 11:13 am

      • Oh I agree it’s a pointless quest. She’s not going to turn Muslims into Episcopalians.

        Mike Street Station

        August 25, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    • I dont think that is true. You could say that about other ex-muslims but not her. She gas spoken out against Islamic immigration.

      DataExplorer

      August 24, 2017 at 9:42 pm

  9. “Intersectionality” is the idea that people are in various and multiple oppressed classes and that these oppressions work together to form an overall personalized oppression profile. I’ve been to tolerance seminars where the speaker literally handed out a kind of scoresheet and invited us to check off the various opressed classes to which we belong. Conspicuous in its absence was an overall personalized oppression score. The difficulty is that simply adding up the number of classes assumes that they are all opressed equally, while putting a hierarchical weight on each would be subjective and cause conflict between opressed groups.

    Steve@steve.com

    August 24, 2017 at 5:49 pm

    • So what can a white guy check off? I would not have anything. Never experienced any oppression or descrimination in the US, only good things.

      JS, you ever felt oppressed?

      Yakov

      August 24, 2017 at 6:43 pm

      • You can leave for Israel, if sh!t really hits the fan in the United States.

        Where can I go?

        French Speaking Canada or Spain, but it will be hard for me to earn a living in any of these two places!

        JS

        August 24, 2017 at 9:45 pm

      • you experienced the non-existent technical education in the US. how many things have you said are better in israel or russia? more than one.

        ron burgundy

        August 24, 2017 at 11:25 pm

      • Is there a box for working late covering the work an AA hire couldn’t do?

        Curle

        August 24, 2017 at 11:53 pm

      • Mates, please… In the context of being oppressed, I have only experienced good things. No oppression, no descrimination, no humiliation. I was always treated very well. Who’s talking about technical education here?

        I did feel oppressed in the USSR and Israeli bureaucracy was pretty brutal in my days, I don’t know how it’s now.

        JS, I don’t get it, after all your dising of America and serenading Canada and Spain, it’s hard to earn a living there? Haven’t you moved to Canada already? Doesn’t Spain have that fantastic health care and safety net that US is lacking? Man, you lost me here. What’s going on? Looks like you are getting cold feet.

        Yakov

        August 25, 2017 at 12:14 am

      • ‘Is there a box for working late covering the work an AA hire couldn’t do?’

        Why just AA? Check this out. I have this new installation ready. In this hall I have 10 units that need to have their filters replaced after construction and before the customer takes over. To do it you need to carefully remove a drop down ceiling tile, replace the filter and put the tile back. I’m doing this idiotic job by myself because I don’t have anybody whom I can trust to remove a brand new, high quality beautiful tile without getting it smudged, chipping of the edges and installing the filter correctly. If I want a perfect job done, I have to do it myself down to the smallest task. And it realy infuriates me that the next time this poor customer needs filters changed his ceiling will inevitably get damaged and the hard to change filters will be just left in place to restrict the air flow, reduce the cooling effect and unnecessary increase the electrical bills. What demographic can be expected to produce the work of acceptable quality? Not the one that has been flooding this country for the last 50 years. This is very simple.

        Yakov

        August 25, 2017 at 9:14 am

      • Yakov — Seriously, I’m on my way out. Better to be lower class in Spain than to be middle class in New York City, or worse, greater America.

        JS

        August 25, 2017 at 1:14 pm

  10. ‘I believe that Islam is in the process of being reformed, but not in the direction that Ayaan Hirsi Ali wants. The reformation that’s happening is that Muslims are discovering the literal words of the Koran, and the Hadiths which tell the story of Mohammed’s life, and that’s leading many Muslims to change their beliefs to be more like those of ISIS and the Taliban.’.

    True observation, if there ever were one. But I have to add that the monotheistic and iconoclastic interpretation of Wahabism does make tons of sense. It’s very powerful.

    Yakov

    August 24, 2017 at 6:10 pm

    • Frankly, I do not care if Islam is being reformed, what it is reforming into, or what it’s various tenets are. I don’t care about the nuances of Wahhabism or Salafism or any other variant. I don’t care about their internecine conflicts or what liberals say about them.

      Let’s call the liberal’s bluff: Is there anything wrong with being a Muslim? Living as a Muslim? Working, worshiping, loving, raising children as a Muslim? No, you say confidently? Then why is it a punishment for them to be confined to their Muslim lands? Why is it so terrible to tell them that they cannot come here and instead must endure living in the land where there is nothing wrong with Islam?

      Since when is being confined to your proverbial room, with candy, cookies, tv, videogames and comic books, ever been a punishment?

      Yet, the Bolsheviks act as if keeping Muslims out is some terrible hardship for the Muslims. Why? Or is “Bolshevik” a revealing enough reason?

      map

      August 25, 2017 at 12:27 am

  11. I was pleasantly surprised the NY Times would even give space to someone like Ayana Hirsi Ali, but then I realized that by giving moderate conservatives like Ali an occasional platform, the Times buys itself the cover to publish liberal drivel the other 99% of the times and still be able to describe it’s content as balanced.

    Roli

    August 24, 2017 at 6:11 pm

    • Right, that’s exactly how it keeps its pretense of objectivity. Giving Trump a platform is another insistence of its sorcery.

      The fact Lion and the right-wing draw their daily nourishment of events from this toxic brew is part and parcel a problem of effectively being outclassed by a superior psychic opponent.

      A Dilettante

      August 24, 2017 at 11:32 pm

      • Need to start increases those taxes on phone calls to Mexico. That will elp pay for the wall.

        map

        August 25, 2017 at 12:29 am

    • The New York Times is still a decent newspaper. It is clearly biased, but the paper is professional and generally provides enough facts and alternative viewpoints that an intelligent person can draw different conclusions than the editorial staff wants you to. The WSJ is the same way. Both are clearly far superior to Fox or CNN in that regard, or any cable or network “news”.

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 25, 2017 at 8:32 am

  12. OT- Looks like FBI is going to be able to comb through IP addresses of inauguration rioting protestors. Wanna bet they locate some Charlottesville Antifa as well?

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/d-c-judge-approves-government-warrant-data-anti-160350435.html

    Curle

    August 24, 2017 at 11:49 pm

    • 2 men are being sought by authorities for the beat down of the black dude from BLM crowd who taunted the protestors with the “N” word at nearby a garage, where his blood letting later took place.

      Well, one of them is caught. The White dude from James Field’s home state of Ohio has been arrested.

      The Puerto Rican dude is still on the loose. He cites his leanings with White Supremacy, because he hates left wing nazis.

      Hispanics aren’t really liberals. Give them enough ammo, and they lean right.

      JS

      August 27, 2017 at 2:36 pm

  13. There is nothing new happening in Islam today. Isis, Al-Qaita, Taliban are not new. More “secular” muslim government are not new. Neither the pendular movement between the two. That’s the story of Islam.

    In Spain, you had the omeyyades, almohades, almoravides; Each one came because the former had abandoned true Islam and they were trying to be born again to its historical roots.

    The reason is that their law is extremey harsh (efficient and effective) but egalitarian. And you can’t be harsh (punishment not proportional to the dismeanor) on the elite. What happens then is hypocrisy (saudis in Saint Tropez) and softening, tempering charia law, introducing some proportionality between the crime and the punishment and giving some place to the personality and status of the criminal.

    Even ISIS had one of is top commander/fighter caught having homosexual intercourse. The young guy was stoned to death after having been thrown down the roof of a buiding. But the death penalty for the commander was commuted in his having to fight in the front as a simple soldier. ISIS was just in its infancy that they broke the charia law.

    Today people believe in humanism religion as strongly as they believed in god given religion in the past. People weren’t more manipulated in the past than they are today. It’s just we had a change of paradigm to centuries ago. There is two interesting books (very slow paced) of Yuval Harari on this matter (Homo sapiens and Homo Deus). What he gets wrong is that he believes technology will provoke the divinization of humankind and the end of humanism when in fact, this is exactly what humanism is about. He doesn’t see the different variants of the three humanism (colectivism, indivudualism, evolutionism) wich are the globalism/nationalism.

    Technology making most people useless should create a humanism evolutionist (like the Nazi) but globalist (unlike them) , that is the divinization of a superclass, wich will use technology to be superior and separated to the rest of humankind that could be treated like we do with the other domesticated animals. This one would be much more frightening than Islam and much more difficult to stop ….

    Bruno

    August 25, 2017 at 4:57 am

    • ‘In Spain, you had the omeyyades, almohades, almoravides; Each one came because the former had abandoned true Islam and they were trying to be born again to its historical roots.’

      Only Wahabbis destroyed the mosque on the grave of Mohammed because they considered it to be ‘shirk’. This is a new advancement.

      Ahmadies interpret jihad as applicable only when Islam is under attack, which they ruled it’s not today. Therefore it can only be taken in a spiritual sense. There are developments and new movements and heresies. Most of it is pretty stupid to an outsider, but you gotta look at it on their terms. Islam has vitality and exercises a powerful hold on its adherents. It has many good and admirable features as well. To let it spread to the non-Islamic countries is a self-made disaster for those countries, because on a practical level it’s a dysfunctional religion that brings violence, discord and conflict. If a country like Spain welcomes aggressive Muslims, it has lost it’s national identity. This is the end.

      Yakov

      August 25, 2017 at 7:41 am

      • One can attribute the Spanish Inquisition to the Almohads. When the Almohads took over Spain, they eliminated the dhimmi system, where Christians and Jews were free to practiced their religion as long as they pay a tax. The Almohads forced the non-believers, especially the Jews to convert to Islam or face persecution. This would later take on the same principle when the Catholics took over Spain where they forced the non-Christians to become Christians or get expelled.

        Almohads also came up with the idea of Western Supremacy — basically, Muslims under the Almohads lived in the West including Spain and thought themselves as rational using the philosophy of Aristotle that was infused into Islam — this itself was a mark of supremacy that separated from the Eastern Muslims in Persia with their disparate groups of Sunnis, Shias and the Sufis.

        JS

        August 27, 2017 at 4:14 pm

  14. Maajid Nawaz is also on the liberal crap list. He is a former Pakistani British Muslim Extremist, that got caught planning Islamist craziness in Egypt. After he got out of jail, and reformed, becoming a “liberal Muslim” (basically one that doesn’t take it religious text seriously, like most Jews and Christians) his Muslim fanatic wife divorced him and took his kid. He now fights Islamic Extremism in the West.

    Southern Poverty Law Center says he is a “bigot”. huh?

    CA Spears

    August 25, 2017 at 7:40 am

  15. So let me get this right. They have a list if anti-islamic extremist, but there is no corresponding list of Islamic ones, right? Yeap, no different then Jimmy Carter and the Congress back in the day.

    Yakov

    August 25, 2017 at 8:47 am


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