Lion of the Blogosphere

Catalonia declares independence!

But will they fight for it? Or will they let Spain take them over?

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

Posted in International

96 Responses

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  1. God speed, Catalonia.

    peterike

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Where is JS? He should be all over this thread.

      Is Catalonia prole? Is separatism prole? What is the future of Spain? Will they be taken over by prole Muslims?

      Rifleman

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  2. If they’ve got the balls to go for it, then god bless ’em.

    Like what you hope for in prison, if they show they’re willing to fight, they probably won’t have to fight very much.

    Greg Pandatshang

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  3. Do they have some sort of paramilitary force? Or “National Guard?”

    This is a really stupid gesture that will be rendered irrelevant in short order. Anyone trying to act like Catalonia is not Spain, by not paying tariffs/taxes or whatever, is just going to get thrown in the pokey, same as now.

    bobbybobbob

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • They have a state police force under the control of the autonomous government, the Mossos d’Esquadra. See https://www.voanews.com/a/catalonia-police-spain/4085351.html, for instance. Spain is attempting to cancel Catalonian autonomy, which would put the police back under the control of Madrid. We’ll see what the police do in practice.

      Catalonia is obviously never going to win a no-holds-barred military conflict with Spain. Therefore, they have no use for a military at this point. The police that they do have give them the power to use force on a limited scale where necessary. They will presumably start to build up the paramilitary/SWAT capabilities of Mossos d’Esquadra as soon as possible.

      Greg Pandatshang

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • What if Catalonia asks for Russian military assistance? What if Spain invokes article 5 of the NATO charter? I’m not saying it’s likely, but there is a path that this could get ugly.

        Mike Street Station

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • If they’re an independent country, they have the right to purchase arms from whoever they want to create a military. However, their main concern at this point, I would assume, is going to be the PR angle. Putin might not be the best look.

        Greg Pandatshang

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

  4. They are a proud race so it’s hard to see how this can be reversed now without a total national humiliation. Unless the genes aren’t what they are supposed to be? A very interesting case.

    Yakov

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  5. I think the Catalans have got this. All they need are lots of cell phone cameras.

    (1) Catalans defy Madrid and form a human wall around their leaders like Puigdemont.
    (2) The police, trying to arrest their leaders, beat the crowd senseless.
    (3) Youtube.
    (4) Victory!

    War is completely different in 2017. Standing around and getting yourself beaten senseless is sometimes a great strategy. I am not trolling. Two notable mid 20th century leaders figured this out to great success.

    Dan

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Which ties into my earlier post today on The Orville. Getting the Spanish downvoted on social media means the Catalonians win.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Who is the other 20th century leader you are referring to? It can’t be Mandela, because the ANC persistently used terrorism. The international media fixed their bad optics for them. That doesn’t work anymore, because Spaniards also have Youtube.

      The human wall is a good idea, but one such act is not sufficient. The internet has ADHD. They have to be stubborn, patient and persistent. They need political prisoners that can serve as a cause célèbre. Puigdemont is not handsome or charismatic enough. They need to contact Oliver Stone and Angelina Jolie ASAP. Tax strikes, sit down strikes, general strikes, no cooperation with the authorities and work-to-rule. They should form a shadow government that has to be broken up. Man hunts for shadow leaders would garner public attention. Greenpeace style activism. Taking down spanish flags and get arrested for it, etc.

      The real question is, whether the Spaniards can justify persistent fascist oppression to themselves. Even if, the EU would have to do something, if they wan’t to preserve what little credibility they have. The only remaining article of faith in the church of Brussels is the “peace project” trope. The EU and only the EU somehow, magically made Western Europe peaceful post-WWII.

      Contrarian

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Nope, I wasn’t thinking of Mandela. Of the two I was thinking of, only one of them led a national independence movement; the other led a political movement. Both are lionized in the Narrative.

        I don’t think the Catalans need any fancy strategies, just more of the same: impede the police while unarmed and let the police whack them in the skull with batons for the YouTube audience.

        For Spain’s part, they need to avoid giving the Catalans these photo ops. They can just freeze the assets of everyone involved, cancel the passports of everyone involved and deny them confrontation they seek. Spain can just drag things down, inhibit corporations and make things miserable.

        Dan

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • I assumed he meant Gandhi and MLK.

        Greg Pandatshang

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Dan – is this what you are trying to say? Gandhi is not respected in Pakistan or South Africa. And I doubt the Dalits of India have a high opinion of Gandhi – and their opinion is important, to me, at least. Poor Martin Luther King would be profoundly ashamed to know that “MLK Boulevards” are best known, in almost all cities where they exist, as the centers of black-on-black crime.

        random observations

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • The Youtube etc. strategy reminds me of State Department’s spokeswoman threatening Putin with (sic) “power of a hashtag”. That was at the beginning of the Ukrainian crisis, months before the annexation of Crimea. In would guess the hashtag threat actually emboldened Putin.

      WRB

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Why would there be such street clashes? The Catalans have *no* power. They are absolutely not prepared to spin up an IRA equivalent or a militia and in fact are a bunch of effete SWPLs. The national government can seize financial assets and arrest people at will. The national government will have absolutely no problem asserting complete control without making any sort of violent spectacle at all. The whole thing is a foolish gesture.

        bobbybobbob

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • The State department trying to act like a grassroots movement of the people is retarded. There is precedent for actual grassroots movements of masses of people winning by being knocked silly.

        Also Putin is not a Western leader. The situations where people won by getting whacked on the head en masse involved standing up against Western democracies, as in this instance.

        Dan

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Putin is like someone in It who doesn’t believe in Pennywise: he’s immune to the evil power of the hashtag. I’m doubtful that Rajoy is equally based.

        Greg Pandatshang

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • I think you’re wrong. People really need to get over the 1960s protest fetish, where you stand around and get beaten up, ???, then victory! It’s pathetic, it’s unmanly and it doesn’t even work anymore.

      The rest of the EU won’t get involved. The US won’t get involved. At least half their population is not, in fact, Catalan. For all their much vaunted industrial prowess, the region is basically a tax haven and the 7% of the companies that provide 35% of their tax revenues have left or are leaving, because instability is bad for business. They have no military might. Best case scenario, they end up with a second civil war, but the fact remains that, while the EU would rather eat broken glass than get involved, they won’t abide a second one – can’t, in fact, because the first was so vicious.

      Jesse

      October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

  6. This is very upsetting to other Spaniards. The Catalans will have to fight for their independence.

    Over at Instapundit, many commenters are supporting Kurdish independence regardless of the consequences. Not long ago we engineered Kosovo’s independence (even bombed the Chinese embassy). But somehow Crimea’s vote and the Donbass separatists are illegitimate. And then there is California.

    Why did we fight the Civil War? Well, your ancestors did. Mine were in England and Canada.

    bob sykes

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • The Kurds have really messed this up. They were chugging along nicely, not getting in anyone’s faces and quietly becoming majorities in a lot of key areas. And then they suddenly decided that this was the moment to start acting out? Really, guys?

      The Kurds have a nice line in being the modern, modern face of the region, but the fact remains that they chop off little girls’ genitals. (Also, there has to be a word for being so out of control, sexually, that you can’t be trusted with body parts.) For all their soldiers paraded before the Western media (including women! in full makeup! it’s ridiculous!) it hasn’t escaped the notice of the rest of the region that they are not, in fact, good fighters. And say what you want about Turkey (and we could all say plenty), the geopolitical realities of the situation mean that no one in the area can afford to antagonize them.

      And while the West has misinterpreted the Kurds, they have in turn misinterpreted us, often willfully. They truly don’t get that no one is expending political or military capital to help them. Not understanding this was an understandable mistake at the beginning of the Arab Spring, but it’s unforgivably stupid now. What they should’ve done once it became obvious what was happening was back DOWN, and live to fight another day.

      Jesse

      October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

  7. After watching almost every episode this season I was kind of let down by the season finale where the protagonist sought reconciliation. I thought my favorite show was going to be cancelled. Many thanks to the Catalans for opting to renew this series for a second season.

    Dan

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • I didn’t think Puigdemont had the balls to go through with it.

      What is really surprising is the overt hypocritical position of the US. Here is a nation trying to gain independence for exactly the same reasons as you did some 300 or so years ago (i.e., not wanting to pay any more taxes to the central government), and what does the US do? They come out strongly for Spanish unity. I wonder where would they have been today had the French supported British unity back in the day!

      For the record, I am not even sure that this independence is a good idea. Far too many leftist loony “refugees welcome” types in Catalunya. On the other hand, Mariano Rajoy is quite dumb, he had plenty of opportunities to deescalate the situation and reach a compromise.

      PrinzEugen

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Arguments about whether supporting Catalonian independence is good STRATEGY (whether out of traditional realpolitik or the goal of saving Europe) are potentially interesting. Arguments about whether it’s internally consistent with decisions made 240 years ago are not interesting. Though it could be argued either way.

        Where would the U.S. be today if not for independence in 1776? Basically fine. Worst-case, maybe 10-15% poorer. It’s pretty tough to screw up a land settled by NW Europeans except by replacing those NW Europeans.

        Wency

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • We already been hypocritical about that since 1861. Current U.S. position is simply staying true to Abraham Lincolnism.

        Greg Pandatshang

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • America was a colony with no say in its colonial governance which was growing rapidly and was greatly detached in distance from its colonizer. America was on its way to becoming much larger than its colonizer in population and already was much larger in area.

        Dan

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Here is a nation trying to gain independence for exactly the same reasons as you did some 300 or so years ago (i.e., not wanting to pay any more taxes to the central government), and what does the US do? They come out strongly for Spanish unity. I wonder where would they have been today had the French supported British unity back in the day!

        It’s not hypocritical because there is no such thing as a “right to secession”. Do you think Bismarck or the Romans recognized a “right” of unhappy provinces to leave whenever they wanted?

        If a region within a larger nation wants to secede and the central government refuses their request the options for the region are to fight and win a war of independence or drop their ambitions. Washington won his war for independence while Jefferson Davis lost. There’s nothing “hypocritical” about what Lincoln, who inherited the state Washington founded, did to the South. If anything pre-war Lincoln was more patient with Southern aggression than a 19th century European Imperialist would have been.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Where would the U.S. be today if not for independence in 1776? Basically fine.

        We could be like Australia – generally prosperous and underpopulated, but still a small to medium power.

        But “basically fine” doesn’t attract the interest of talented men…

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Should we assume the same Americans who a few weeks ago knew nothing about Catalonia and who are now salivating over breaking apart the ancient nation of Spain would likewise be cheering Chechnya to the rafters if it voted to secede from Putin’s grip?

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • I wonder where would they have been today had the French supported British unity back in the day!

        The French backed the Colonists because the French were enemies of Britain, not because of some moral principle. By contrast, Spain is not an American enemy and we gain nothing by helping it fall apart.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • The context is different. Bismarck’s German Empire was autocratic with a rubber-stamp parliament. And the Roman Empire was, well, the Roman Empire. The Americans and Americans of the past had different views on secession than autocratic Germans and Roman imperialists did.

        Tom

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “We already been hypocritical about that since 1861. Current U.S. position is simply staying true to Abraham Lincolnism.”

        The right answer.

        Curle

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Without Catalonia, Spain would probably always vote in based right wing governments. The next logical step would be to get rid of the Basque Commies and then Spain would truely be Great Again, maybe we would witness a rebirth of the Spanish Empire.

        DataExplorer

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “What is really surprising is the overt hypocritical position of the US. Here is a nation trying to gain independence for exactly the same reasons as you did some 300 or so years ago…”

        I’m not sure it’s looked at that way. I suspect the Eurothink on this is that it is a symptom of nationalism, which of course must be stomped out at any opportunity, and Foggy bottom just copies what the Europeans want. There is no interest or concern on whether the Catalans have legitimate grievances.

        Mike Street Station

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • The context is different. Bismarck’s German Empire was autocratic with a rubber-stamp parliament. And the Roman Empire was, well, the Roman Empire. The Americans and Americans of the past had different views on secession than autocratic Germans and Roman imperialists did.

        Americans since the Founders have always been divided on unilateral secession.

        The Romans were also a militarily aggressive Republic as were Sparta and Athens. None of them recognized a legal “right to secession” for any of their regional territories.

        A “right to secession” exists as a concept only in the United States, and, perhaps to a much lesser degree, Britain. In Spain and the rest of Europe unilateral secession has no historical precedence unless that “right” was exercised on the battlefield.

        Even in America a “right to secession” is legally very questionable because there is no Constitutional provision for it.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

      • It doesn’t make sense to appeal to autocratic European cultures for what older Americans and the Founders thought.

        Tom

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

      • It doesn’t make sense to appeal to autocratic European cultures for what older Americans and the Founders thought.

        Of course it makes sense because European history is the context the Spanish government views Catalonia’s declaration of independence from, not Confederate history.

        Confederate apologists are the ones saying Spain is obligated to respect a non-existent “right” to unilateral secession that was claimed by American Confederates a century and a half ago.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 29, 2017 at EDT pm

  8. Catalonia is a typical leftist demographic death toilet that’s going to be majority youth Muslim within a generation, and they are probably already a majority of those willing to fight for a cause. This is shocking, given the scale of Spain’s former empire and potential friendly immigrants, but nothing shocking remains so for long when leftists have power.

    This is petty nationalism theater, almost as dubious as Scottish nationalism, that is only allowed to happen to make a mockery of the concept, and the ones who actually take it seriously are just opening themselves up for easy neutralization. Real nationalism which involves real great powers (that usually just want to be the next big empire anyway) is of course despised and not even allowed a stage for theater.

    Even the original nationalism was a construct invented by the West as it wanted to grab territory from the multi-ethnic traditional empires of the Ottomans, Russia, and Austria-Hungary. After WWII it was reserved for banana republics vying for Cold War arms deals, and even this feels quaint by now.

    Nationalism is fake and the culture war is real, no matter what you might wish to be true. Globalism is just as exposed, but it just doesn’t know it yet.

    Anonymous Fake

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • “Catalonia is a typical leftist demographic death toilet that’s going to be majority youth Muslim within a generation, ”

      I don’t know anything about the situation. Can you point me to some sources supporting your claims?

      If what you’re saying is true then Spain is well rid of them.

      gothamette

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • For the uninitiated Americans, Catalonia is the California of Spain, a rich area that want to separate not because of some oppression by the regime but mainly for economic reasons and a bit of virtue signalling. They will not fight for anything because life is too good. This is not some backwater region, Barcelona is one of the most prominent cities in Europe and as such is not different to NY, Berlin or London in terms of politics which tends to the left. The city council there complain that there are too many tourists and they passed a decision to boycott Israeli products. This more or less gives you all you need to know. Don’t over romanticise it, it is champaign secession.

        Hashed

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Don’t over romanticise it,

        Too late.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Well then, it’s kind of ironic that lefty Californicatin’ Catalonia is doing something inherently right wing. History is strange.

        gothamette

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • It’s the same thing when lefties will praise the virtues of locally sourced food but will have no problem with globally sourced immigrant farmers to prepare this food. They are very happy to support locality when it is leftie middle class with socialist aspirations people like them virtue signalling against some tolerant government like in the case of the Catalans or the Scotts. They couldn’t care less when it is actually oppressed people, especially working class whites and especially when the oppressors are non whites.

        Hashed

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

    • you’ve added a new term to my vocab. “death toilet”. thank you sir.

      john carpenter presents Death Toilet.

      ron burgundy

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • nationalism is applauded by libtards unless the country is a rich white country. then it’s evil.

      just like everyone is a victim except for straight white males.

      ron burgundy

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • It’s all about the Reparations Marxism. From each, according to his oppressor heritage. To each according to his victim heritage.

        Curle

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Dude, Catalonia is the richest and whitest part of Spain.

        DataExplorer

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “It’s all about the Reparations Marxism. From each, according to his oppressor heritage. To each according to his victim heritage.”

        I like that! That would make a good sign in front of the Dean’s office.

        Mike Street Station

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

    • The numbers I can find suggest that Catalonia is 6-7% Muslim compared to 4% for Spain overall. Though this might simply be driven by the fact that Muslims, being immigrants, tend to congregate in big cities, and Catalonia is dominated by Barcelona.

      When I was in Barcelona in the 1990s, what I noticed was the brown-skinned petty thieves everywhere. I think they were North Africans, though they could have also been Gypsies. I was there for 3 days and witnessed maybe 5 acts of petty crime in broad daylight. I was glad to get out.

      Madrid was much nicer, though the grounds of their city zoo was filled with black prostitutes. I saw an old white man wearing nothing but boxers and a pair of socks chasing a black prostitute wearing whore clothes through a city zoo in broad daylight, which is probably still the strangest thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

      I did like Spain overall, but old man chasing black prostitute and brown-skinned thieves stealing cameras are the two firmest memories I retain of the place, 20 years later.

      Wency

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  9. For those who say that the SNP was leftist, and that the Catalans are leftist, there is such a thing as the law of unintended consequences.

    When a nation is formed, one group may be the ones who do the heavy lifting with the formation, but the people eventually have a say in how it shakes out.

    Look at Ireland.

    gothamette

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  10. fuq dem anarchosyndicalist hqgblxrdfblmt bastards.

    t’is about time to franco falange them again.

    lol, plenty legal hunting rifles and shotguns in spain.

    heheh. the libtards are cowards.

    kokbær

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  11. If I were Spanish I wouldn’t want independence, making Spain a smaller and weaker country, then why United States don’t lose territory too? now Spain is weaker versus United States and other bigger countries, big countries have it better if they are rich (I guess size is disadvantage in poor countries like Brazil or India).

    Joe Allan

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • I’m in favor of Calexit.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • I’m in favor of Calexit.

        Not going to happen but better if California splits into two states.

        Remember the far north and eastern mountain range paralleling Nevada is heavily White and Republican. Relatively low population density but good to be separate from the rest of Cali.

        Don’t reject the whole state.

        Rifleman

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Lets California go but keep port access to San Diego.

        Lion of the Turambar

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

    • There is an argument that lack of (population) size is what makes Canada persistently 15-20% poorer than the U.S. There are lower economies of scale. Of course, the vast majority of that difference is captured by the richest of the rich in the U.S., so that middle class Canadians don’t seem noticeably poorer than middle class Americans.

      The big, big winners of living in a big country are the value transferers. There’s way more value to transfer in the U.S. than in Canada. Likewise there’s more value to transfer in Spain than in Catalonia. For the middle class, or even large parts of the upper-middle class, the advantages of a big country aren’t so clear.

      Wency

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “There is an argument that lack of (population) size is what makes Canada persistently 15-20% poorer than the U.S. There are lower economies of scale”

        I thought NAFTA should have cured that?

        Mike Street Station

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • Canada lacks value transference industries like Hollywood, Wall Street, GoogleFacebookMicrosoftApple etc.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

    • Weaker compared to who? Portugal? Who would they compete with besides Portugal or something?

      Tom

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  12. States like Catalonia and Quebec have an edge when they’re parts of larger countries. Remove them from the (con)federation and they lose the momentum to standout and more importantly the energy behind their culture fizzles. Catalonia can separate all it wants, but the end result will be a bloated version of Andorra or Montenegro, a place too obscure to find on the map or to draw inspiration from in any meaningful way.

    roli

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Best-case, your comparison is Switzerland. 8 million vs. Catalonia’s 6 million. And Switzerland has the cultural disadvantage of being fragmented linguistically.

      The Swiss are conservative though, at least in comparison to their neighbors. Mountain folk are always tougher, though they tend to be dysfunctional (cf. Chechens). Switzerland has the distinction of retaining the relative toughness of a mountain place while being even more functional than its lowland neighbors.

      Catalonia is more functional than Spain as a whole, though also softer and more inclined to embrace generic global progressive ideas.

      One thought: if they won their independence, would they end up just speaking English? I think Gaelic is weaker in Ireland now than it was at independence, despite the fact that now it’s taught in schools and back then it wasn’t. Likewise Catalan will be pushed in Catalonian schools, but once it can no longer be used to annoy Castilians, it will just be a barrier to their ability to watch Hollywood TV and movies.

      Wency

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Your comment is laughable if you’re talking about Québec and Catalonia from an American perspective. Hardly anyone in the prole states know much about Canada and Spain, let alone these specific regions of their respective countries. Perhaps independence would make these 2 provinces noticeable!

      JS

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Andorra or Montenegro don’t have a city like Barcelona. There are many countries in Europe around that size and they are not obscure at all. For the vast majority of the world Barcelona is much more known and influential than any city in Canada or most of the cities in the US except from NY and LA.

      Hashed

      October 30, 2017 at EDT pm

  13. https://pragmaticallydistributed.wordpress.com/2017/10/26/uraniumgate-dossiergate/

    https://pragmaticallydistributed.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/ap_756094741512.jpg?

    Just call her Radioactive Girl.

    The Russia-Trump collusion story is finished now that it’s been torpedoed by the story of Russia-Clinton collusion.

    This fight is being called on simple persuasion points: Whatever criminal collusion may have actually occurred between Russia and Trump is buried under a mountain of nebulous links and tangential connections to Russia that are either not criminal (e.g. Don Jr’s. meeting with a Russian lobbyist) or have little or nothing to do with actions that implicate Trump (e.g. Paul Manafort’s revenue he collected from Russia and Ukraine prior to the start of Trump’s campaign in mid-2015).

    To the extent connections such as these can be argued to qualify as “collusion” their context and connections are far too complex for most voters – who by now are exhausted with the story – to make sense of.

    Not so with America’s Madame Uranium.

    The undisputed facts about her latest scandal are all too easy for voters to understand and for Trump to joyously spin.

    Those undisputed facts are: The Clinton’s were paid hundreds of millions of dollars by Russia. Afterwards then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton approved selling control of 20% of America’s uranium stockpile to Russia.

    This is all to easy for Trump to, approximately, frame as – In exchange for more a than $100 million donation, Russia bribed Hillary Clinton to approve the sale of our uranium to Vladimir Putin’s government.

    The Undiscovered Jew

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  14. https://pragmaticallydistributed.wordpress.com/2017/10/26/uraniumgate-dossiergate/

    Just call her Radioactive Girl.

    The Russia-Trump collusion story is finished now that it’s been torpedoed by the story of Russia-Clinton collusion.

    This fight is being called on simple persuasion points: Whatever criminal collusion may have actually occurred between Russia and Trump is buried under a mountain of nebulous links and tangential connections to Russia that are either not criminal (e.g. Don Jr’s. meeting with a Russian lobbyist) or have little or nothing to do with actions that implicate Trump (e.g. Paul Manafort’s revenue he collected from Russia and Ukraine prior to the start of Trump’s campaign in mid-2015).

    To the extent connections such as these can be argued to qualify as “collusion” their context and connections are far too complex for most voters – who by now are exhausted with the story – to make sense of.

    Not so with America’s Madame Uranium.

    The undisputed facts about her latest scandal are all too easy for voters to understand and for Trump to joyously spin.

    Those undisputed facts are: The Clinton’s were paid hundreds of millions of dollars by Russia. Afterwards then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton approved selling control of 20% of America’s uranium stockpile to Russia.

    This is all to easy for Trump to, approximately, frame as – In exchange for more a than $100 million donation, Russia bribed Hillary Clinton to approve the sale of our uranium to Vladimir Putin’s government.

    The Undiscovered Jew

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • The MSM won’t cover the story.

      Rosenmops

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • They will. The WaPo is all over it. Watch. This has the potential to become quite big.

        Apparently an anti-Trump Republican, Paul Singer, started the whole mess, for Pool Boy. Then the Dems bought the research and added Christopher Steele.

        I still don’t understand how the uranium deal fits into this.

        gothamette

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “I still don’t understand how the uranium deal fits into this.”

        Here’s a very good summary from Apr 2015
        http://www.businessinsider.com/the-clintons-putin-and-uranium-2015-4?op=1

        It shows that the Russians had long owned Hillary, and that the FBI (Mueller and Rosenstein) and DOJ (Holder) had already covered for her back then.

        Then the FBI (Comey) and the DOJ (Lynch) covered for her on the emails

        Now comes the funding of the Trump Dossier (filled with Russian disinformation)

        Bonus add ons:

        – Some of the Russians peddling influence may be connected to Paul Manafort and his dealing with the Podesta Group
        – FBI were running an investigation into the Russian influence peddling (details to come from informant)
        – FBI/DOJ failed to report investigation to members of CFIUS (Mueller/Rosenstein/Holder culpable)
        – Disinformation from the Trump Dossier was used as basis for unmasking 100’s of Trump associates by Obama admin

        Irony that the same guys who investigated the Russians bribing Hillary in the Uranium One deal, and who then covered it up for Hillary and allowed the deal to go through, are magically put in charge of investigating Trump/Russia, as Rosenstein appoints Mueller as SC.

        Now Mueller is about to be hit with unpleasant revelations, to be provided from the FBI informant (and the Podesta informant?)

        Suddenly, he hurriedly announce indictments at 9.00 pm on a Friday.

        Manafort? Probably
        Podestas? Maybe (based on Tucker Carlson’s info)

        Mueller is fighting to regain control and relevance. Maybe he has a chance, as long as he doesn’t mess with Mr. Trump.

        gda

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • Thanks gda.

        I’ve been reading up on it, and this is good too:

        http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453205/steele-dossier-democrats-collusion-russia

        They are related by personalities, but not really the same scandal.

        “In addition, there is an even more significant proof problem: The DNC never permitted the FBI to conduct a physical examination of the servers that were hacked. Instead, its trusty Perkins Coie lawyers hired a private cybersecurity firm, CrowdStrike, to do the forensic testing. Rather than follow the standard investigative template in which the government acquires possession of critical physical evidence (whether by request, subpoena, or search warrant), the Obama Justice Department indulged the administration’s friends at the DNC. Thus, the hacking investigation is built on the work of CrowdStrike, not of the FBI. Which is to say: To accept the conclusion that Russia hacked the DNC, we must trust a DNC contractor.”

        Jesus.

        At this point it’s futile to speculate what will happen. A lot of unexpected things are happening. Who would ever have predicted that Harvey Weinstein would be outed? Maybe Clinton is next. Justice sometimes happens.

        gothamette

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • I still don’t understand how the uranium deal fits into this.

        See here:

        https://www.steynonline.com/8218/how-to-steele-an-election

        http://www.steynonline.com/6931/fighting-for-everyday-americans-and-everyday

        https://www.steynonline.com/8207/uranium-diarrhea-inc

        That’s almost too funny an update of the line variously attributed to Lenin, Stalin and others: “The capitalists will sell us the rope by which we will hang them.” In this case, we’ve sold Putin the uranium by which he will nuke us. As the Russian news agency TASS reported two years ago:

        ‘MOSCOW, May 22 (Itar-Tass) – Russia’s nuclear power corporation Rosatom controls 20 percent of all uranium reserves in the United States, the corporation’s chief, Sergei Kiriyenko told the State Duma on Wednesday…

        ‘”I am pleased to inform you that today we control 20 percent of uranium in the United States. If we need that uranium, we shall be able to use it any time,” Kiriyenko said.’

        Great! By the way, before he became America’s fastest rising uranium executive, Mr Kiriyenko was Prime Minister of Russia.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

      • It’s not exactly the same scandal. The Uranium-gate is concurrent. Of course IMO they are the same, but try to prove it in a court. That would be very circumstantial.

        gothamette

        October 29, 2017 at EDT am

      • It’s not exactly the same scandal.

        The other scandals give context to Mueller and Comey’s actions.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 29, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Nothing will come of this. There seems to be some unwritten rule about not prosecuting ex presidents — or even high government officials.

      CamelCaseRob

      October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Well now we await the Mueller indictments Monday.

        Nevertrumpers are giddy tonight.

        Mrs Stitch

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • It has to be Manafort, right? He got the pre-dawn police raid.

        Richard

        October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

      • I don’t see how he could NOT be indicted. Mueller has been gunning for him for weeks, months.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • Manafort lawyers report they have NOT been contacted, which they would have been if he WAS under indictment.

        Curiouser and curiouser.

        gda

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

  15. Perhaps the Catalan government know that they cannot declare independence and are looking at this as a way of stoking nationalist furvour for a real independence push at some later date. If you are a Catalan nationalist why wouldn’t you use the machinery of the government you have to do this?

    And saying that the Catalans are effete liberals who lack the stomach for a fight misses the fact that this also applies to the Spaniards. What happens when a soft object meets an impotent force? I don’t know. Maybe both sides could import some Africans to fight for them, and we will just end up with a Spanish version of the NFL (and yes I know Franco actually did that. When your fascists have to get Africans and Italians to fight your civil wars for you it probably doesn’t say much for your martial spirit).

    In any case I think the earlier comment that the specifics of the political situation or the psychology of the nations involved are less interesting than what it means for the possibilities it could open up for America and Europe. Just because Catalan nationalism is of the romantic leftist kind it doesn’t mean that they all would be.

    prolier than thou

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Franco got a few Moors to fight for him because at that time the Spanish Rif was a territory of Spain. Whats the point of having an empire if you can’t use it’s resources. But I dont think they were that numerous.

      DataExplorer

      October 28, 2017 at EDT am

  16. The Catalonian people are nothing but deracinated libertines. They don’t have the will to fight for anything and have disgraced themselves with this utterly ridiculous declaration.

    Two in the Bush

    October 27, 2017 at EDT pm

  17. spineless liberal slimeballs.

    spain should go fully caudillo franco on them, blood and tears on barcelona’s streets.

    or build a wall around them and put all of their beloved afro/muslim immigrants inside…

    isabella

    October 28, 2017 at EDT am

  18. The libertarians there did a poll showing 75% oppose independence.

    This is all leftist smoke and mirrors. This is why they don’t want a real vote by the people on the 4 options–the far-left knows they would lose, so use a temporary dominance in the legislature and sham yes/no plebiscites monitored by no one to proclaim victory…

    There have been underreported mass protests against independence.

    rob

    October 28, 2017 at EDT am

  19. They tried five times in five centuries and always lost. They are moderate urban people without the fury of Spaniard. In the long run , basque have more chances because they are fighters. Already, basque doesn’t contribute to Spanish budget and receive 3bn a year despite being the richest region in the country .

    Bruno

    October 28, 2017 at EDT am

    • Many Catalans look different from Spaniards. They look like French or German types.

      JS

      October 28, 2017 at EDT am

    • If you think HBD has a role as to why Catalonia wants to break away from Spain, you might be on to something. The same reason why Northern Italy wants to separate from South of Rome.

      JS

      October 28, 2017 at EDT am

      • Good point, Catalonians are indeed a few notches above Castillians in HBD terms, but on the same note, Quebecers are at least a good notch below the RoC. By the way, English Canadian are way to polite to say this in public, but privately most find Quebecers (and specifically Quebecers of French background) to lack intelligence and self-control. Surprised you haven’t yet discovered this aspect of the English Canadian character JS. Fyi, the two famously Québécois Trudeaus who have lead Canada–senior and junior–both had/have significant English admixtures. Justin Trudeau is almost 3/4 Anglo, though admittedly still a complete dolt.

        Roli

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

      • I find educated French Canadians to be pseudo-European, bourgeois types, while the run in da mill, Anglo-Prole elitist is what you see, and what you get (if you know what I mean, by reading my comments here).

        French people are Latins, and therefore they are more expressive than your average Anglo Prole.

        JS

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Furthermore, the Canadian natives (or 1st Nations) like the French more than more polite, 2 faced Anglo Proles.

        JS

        October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Québec is regarded as a bottom tier province to the Anglophone majority of Greater Canada. Strange, because its nickname is La Belle Province — while the rest of Canada has the feel of America as a commerce center with ugly architecture and “I’ll hustle for a buck” mentality.

        JS

        October 29, 2017 at EDT am

  20. Is unz and steve down?

    Anon

    October 28, 2017 at EDT am

    • That would really be incredible if Unz/Steve were to get the Stormfront treatment. A real crossing of the Rubicon.

      Two in the Bush

      October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Unz programs his own site and it suffers from reliability problems. It is back up now.

      CamelCaseRob

      October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

  21. @random observations
    “Poor Martin Luther King would be profoundly ashamed to know that “MLK Boulevards” are best known, in almost all cities where they exist, as the centers of black-on-black crime.”

    In Lion’s previous posting on this site titled “Are Radical left wing extremists reading my blog”, I made the very same point as you about streets named after MLK, albeit with a sense of humour. Some of the more dour individuals on this site insisted on a literal interpretation of my words and proceeded thereafter to take me to task. Sadly, not everyone is blessed with an appreciation for subtlety or a sense of humour.

    Roli

    October 28, 2017 at EDT pm

  22. I can’t help feeling that there is some profound aspect to all this which we are missing, and I’ve come to the conclusion that this isn’t really our fault but the fault of the media who are too blinkered and shallow to be able to get on the ground in Catalonia and ask the questions that would tell us what is really happening there.

    I think the whole spirit of the EU project and of the elites that have bought into it is that nationalism is dangerous and that we must construct regional and global institutions that undermine the Nation to create a new kind of globally-minded citizen; a Western version of the Homo Sovieticus which the USSR was aiming to foster. Whatever the narrative control of the media may tell us about the romantic, anti-fascist history of Catalan Nationalism I cannot believe that the TPTB saw this splintering back into more tribal blocs as something they had accounted for or wanted to happen.

    prolier than thou

    October 30, 2017 at EDT am


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