Lion of the Blogosphere

Flynn

So I guess I should say something about this.

He’s not guilty of anything to do with Russian collusion in the election, he’s only guilty of lying (about what I don’t know) to the FBI.

The lesson here is never talk to the FBI, then you can never be charged with lying to them.

* * *

The implication of the NY Times article is that Flynn felt guilty about having so many meetings with the Russian ambassador (not that it’s actually illegal for a top-level member of a presidential transition team to meet with an ambassador from a foreign country, in fact I think it’s routine), and that’s what he lied about.

As a commenter pointed out, the goal of the FBI is to psychologically coerce suspects into lying so they can prosecute them for lying if they can’t prosecute them for anything else. Once again, even if you think you are smart and know what you are doing, never talk to the FBI without a lawyer present, and probably your lawyer will say don’t talk at all and plead the 5th, which is good advice.

* * *

Wikipedia advice re. 18 USC 1001: “many observers have concluded that it is best for anyone with the slightest degree of criminal exposure to refrain from submitting to an interview by government agents. Solomon L. Wisenberg suggests simply asking for the agent’s business card and saying, “[M]y attorney will be in contact with you.”[13] The invocation of counsel cannot be used against a defendant at trial.”

* * *

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454269/michael-flynn-plea-no-breakthrough-russia-investigation

According to Andrew McCarthy, the FBI knew about one of Flynn’s conversation with the Russian ambassador because his phone calls were wiretapped, so they were able to get him to lie about the contents of that conversation which they already knew. That’s a sort of entrapment.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

December 1, 2017 at EDT am

Posted in Politics

62 Responses

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  1. “He’s not guilty of anything to do with Russian collusion in the election, he’s only guilty of lying (about what I don’t’ know) to the FBI.”

    The NYT reported on what, Israel has a surprising role to play.

    “The lesson here is never talk to the FBI, then you can never be charged with lying to them.”

    Or don’t lie. But this is BS, clearly law enforcement wants you to lite to them so in the end if they can’t get you for anything else they can get you for that.

    Jeremy Cooper

    December 1, 2017 at EDT am

    • So Flynn was trying to help Israel against the Obama administration’s anti-Israel policies.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 1, 2017 at EDT am

      • You do remember the exceptionally long sentence given to Jonathan Pollard.

        Anthony

        December 1, 2017 at EDT am

      • GOP president getting impeached for trying to help Israel? Not likely!

        Not Watergate but Iran-Contra (where Israel was also involved!)

        IHTG

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Israel has a surprising role to play.

        What is surprising about foreign advisers of a President-elect talking to foreign countries?

        Flynn’s job was foreign policy.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • This is in no way comparable to Pollard.

        I read up to page 4 of the statement and I gave up. The Israelis are only mentioned WRT the UN business on settlements.

        That’s all.

        I don’t see anything suspicious or odd about the Israeli involvement in this, but most important, what the fuck did Flynn do that was so bad? If he lied, it was about perfectly legal actions.

        Get me out of here, this country is so fucked.

        gothamette

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “Exceptionally long” wtf are you talking about. Brian Regan will die in prison. Why both Pollard and Regan and similar aren’t simply hung on the mall is a mystery to me.

        Why is Pollard still alive? Death is the toll for treason.

        bobbybobbob

        December 2, 2017 at EDT am

      • “You do remember the exceptionally long sentence given to Jonathan Pollard.”

        What? Pollard was convicted on espionage charges. They actually got him on a real, serious crime, not a process crime to get him to cop to something else.

        Mike Street Station

        December 3, 2017 at EDT am

    • The other guy that talked to the FBI and got charged doesn’t seem to have lied and he still got charged. They asked him a vague question that could have been interpreted two different ways. He answered one way (which was actually the more logical way of interpreting it) and they charged him for not answering the other. If he had answered the other they would have charged him for not saying what he actually said. You can’t win in these scenarios. I really don’t understand why Flynn talked to the FBI in the first place. Seems like borderline malpractice to allow your client to do something that stupid.

      PerezHBD

      December 1, 2017 at EDT am

    • “Or don’t lie”

      How cute! Someday when you’re older, you’ll realize HS is absolutely right.

      What’s amazing to me is why so many smart people disregard that advice. Any thoughts Lion as to why this is?

      Maybe they’re ignorant of how an aggressive federal prosecution works? Or maybe they risk being fired? That sure didn’t work out for Flynn. It really is appalling how Republicans presidents have failed to stand up for their people against federal prosecutors. Maybe they think they have nothing to hide and that the truth will protect them. Maybe they think the Clinton “I don’t recall” refrain will protect them?

      If you read the charge, he was indeed prosecuted for saying “I don’t recall”.

      mvetsel

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  2. ResetEra on Flynn: Flynn has made a deal with Mueller that is going to bring Trump down

    ResetEra on Steinle: Not a big deal. All murders are tragic. That he was an illegal doesn’t matter.

    Otis the Sweaty

    December 1, 2017 at EDT am

    • of course the cucks on Redstate are saying that the jury made the right call. Exterminate TruCons.

      Otis the Sweaty

      December 1, 2017 at EDT am

      • Couldn’t agree more, Otis!

        Tarl

        December 1, 2017 at EDT am

      • I think the case is very strong that Steinle’s death was an accident. Of course, the perp should still be locked up or deported. Though he keeps getting deported and coming back anyway. Maybe a wall would change that.

        I’m all for punishing repeat small-time offenders more harshly. But it does appear that’s all he is: a small-time offender. Too stupid to contribute anything to society, and a danger to himself and others. But not a murderer.

        Wency

        December 1, 2017 at EDT am

      • The Steinle case was manslaughter. How it didn’t even meet that level is beyond me.
        I’m convinced that if a white, straight male who was a legal resident had done this, manslaughter would have been reached, if not second-degree murder.

        Half Canadian

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “Maybe a wall would change that.”

        “Walls don’t work” is a talking point for everyone who’s for open borders.

        Lewis Medlock

        December 3, 2017 at EDT am

      • I think for the Steinle case the jury knew that Trump wanted a conviction, so they were going to do the opposite of what Trump wanted.

        Mike Street Station

        December 3, 2017 at EDT am

      • Or maybe the prosecutor just did a lousy job, and the defendant had top-level pro-bono lawyers because Trump made him infamous.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 3, 2017 at EDT am

      • “Or maybe the prosecutor just did a lousy job, and the defendant had top-level pro-bono lawyers because Trump made him infamous.”

        Seems pretty obvious based on the defense attorney’s diatribe that this was all about Trump.

        Mike Street Station

        December 4, 2017 at EDT am

  3. Left is going crazy. They really and truly believe it is going to turn out that Trump and Putin were sitting around plotting how to hack the election system. Wish NeoGaf was still around so I could come here to find out what they are saying over there.

    PerezHBD

    December 1, 2017 at EDT am

    • ResetEra and NeoGaf are the same thing.

      I could like you to the thread they have on this, but really nobody should subject themselves to that. I do it so you guys don’t have to.

      They are reacting about as you’d expect: This is it. This is the smoking gun. Flynn is going to take Trump down.

      I thought that it was Manafort who was supposed to take Trump down?

      There are a couple of things about Flynn that I’m not clear on:

      1. Has he agreed to testify *against* Trump per se, or just testify that Trump told him to talk to the Russians?

      2. Was this during or after the campaign?

      Otis the Sweaty

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  4. Getting prosecuted for “lying to the FBI” has happened so often that I am stunned there is anyone stupid enough to talk to them at this point.

    Tarl

    December 1, 2017 at EDT am

  5. Norman Mailer admired Monica Lewinsky and said she was one of the few to stand up to the NKVD, excuse me, FBI. Is that true? I don’t know enough about it to say one way or the other. Mailer hated the FBI.

    gothamette

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Or liked Lewinsky. Many men like sexually aggressive women.

      Curle

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Both, perhaps. Mailer hated the FBI since the 50s.

        gothamette

        December 2, 2017 at EDT pm

  6. Flynn lied to the VP which is why he got fired in the first place, so we know already that Flynn lies, but still, this is nothing. No collusion, no matter how hysterical ABC and MSNBC gets.

    Mike Street Station

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  7. “I don’t recall.”

    E. Rekshum

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Always a safe answer if you can’t get away with taking the Fifth. No one can prove whether you remembered at that particular point in time.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Yep, taking the Fifth is not a good option or not an option at all in many cases.

        My Two Cents

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • You have to lawyer up the instant the FBI wants to talk. I don’t think “I don’t recall” alone is going to be good enough to navigate all the risks.

      It’s the Martha Stewart situation. Her mistake was talking to the FBI without her lawyer in the room.

      bobbybobbob

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • One of the “lies” Flynn is being prosecuted for is that exact answer. The only ways you should respond to questions from the FBI* are silence, invoking the 5th, or through your lawyer.

      *If you aren’t Hillary.

      snorlaxwp

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  8. With Flynn lying to the FBI and Mooch talking to the media, I am just shocked such high level people are so naive and don’t know better.

    Stilicho

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Well, it may go to show that a lot of success is luck.

      Lowe

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  9. Yeah, Andrew McCarthy lays it out here with his usual clarity. Much ado about nothing.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454269/michael-flynn-plea-no-breakthrough-russia-investigation

    Andrew E.

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Yup, seems the expectation that this thing will be wrapped up by Christmas (held by Trump and the WH) is probably correct. There will be some heads exploding when Mueller says he’s done and there was no collusion (or whatever the hell the investigation was supposed to expose).

      Let them have there fun while it lasts – the party’s almost over.

      gda

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • The Corner has a lot of good analysis.

      a. confirms wire tapping to Mar-a-lago
      b. Kushner is the one who instructed Flynn
      c. heavy implication is that there is no “collusion” or FBI would have made Flynn plead guilty to that conspiracy

      Interesting does anyone thing that a jury would convict a Army Ranger general of anything with prison time?

      Lion o' the Turambar

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • The jury is going to be (or would be rather since he’s pleading guilty) made up of the good people (*cough*) of The District of Columbia, so there’s your answer.

        snorlaxwp

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • DC Jurys is all SWPLs who don’t care about military ranks.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Doesnt he live in Maryland?

        Meuller can run his grand jury wherever but I dont believe the crime happened in DC and Flynn doesnt live in DC so I’d guess he would get a lot of latitude in an actual trial location.

        And I dont think you’d get 12 people giving him significant jail time.

        Petraeus got two years probation.

        Lion o' the Turambar

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  10. Never, EVER talk to any agent of the federal government without an attorney present.

    Title 18, Sec 1001 makes it very easy for the Fed Gov to come after you. Even not telling them something you know, even if you don’t think it;s relevant, is grounds for prosecution. It doesn’t even have to pertain to the subject being discussed.

    REPEAT: Never, EVER talk to any agent of the federal government without an attorney present.

    Insider

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  11. Liberal French journal writes Flyn is ready to confess Trump have him the order to contact Russian. I hope this is French fake news . Not that I believe it would have been bad , but because of impeechment objectice . From the start , I said Trump should have pardon everyone and shut down the process . Now the tragedy is developping. Nobody seems to care or realize …. I don’t understand that .

    Bruno

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • It’s fine. If Flynn is testifying that Trump told him to contact the Russians during the campaign, that could be an issue. But if it was during the transition than it is nothing. Media going crazy but they will come back down to earth next week.

      Otis the Sweaty

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Trump telling anyone at anytime to contact Russians is not a crime. It’s not even unethical.

        hard9bf

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • During the transition, I believe it’s normal to have contact with foreign governments.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Flynn was talking to the Russians about perfectly legitimate stuff, the UN vote. WTF is going on ?

        I just learn that a White House spec prosecutor is named Ty Cobb. For the foreign among us, Ty Cobb was a very famous baseball player of the 1920s, who was actually smart. Lion: HBD. He was an early investor in Coca Cola, and his sons all went to Princeton!

        gothamette

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • FDR gave the Soviets their own staff person, Alger Hiss, and it never hurt him. Oh yea, who whom.

        Curle

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • But if it was during the transition than it is nothing.

      The indictment of Flynn is all transition related.

      Mueller is an out of control prosecutor who, having found no collusion during the campaign, is wasting time with process crimes unrelated to the campaign. Or, in Flynn’s case, inventing process crimes by pressuring witnesses into making misstatements that are later spun into “perjury” charges.

      In terms of Mueller’s mandate Trump would be right to fire him for veering off from campaign collusion into the Presidential transition or Manafort’s pre-2015 lobbying in Eastern Europe.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • But to be clear, even the following would have been perfectly lawful in October:

        “Flynn, our Oppo is a little short. See if the Russians can give us anything on Hillary to fill in the gap, maybe start some rumors on Twatter or something.”

        Marty

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

      • And Mueller couldn’t even invent so much as that.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  12. According to Andrew McCarthy, the FBI knew about one of Flynn’s conversation with the Russian ambassador because his phone calls were wiretapped, so they were able to get him to lie about the contents of that conversation which they already knew. That’s a sort of entrapment.

    Recall this is very much like what happened to Scooter Libby. Then Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald was tasked to investigate who leaked Valerie Plame’s name to the press and Fitzgerald already knew before he ever interviewed Libby that the leaker was Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage.

    Andrew E.

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  13. Interesting that Mueller drops this the day of the tax vote. Kind of like how he dropped the Manafort indictment the same day the Hillary Uraniumone and Fusion GPS scandals broke. His special counsel was also announced immediately after Trump’s opening speech to Congress. Timing is everything, isn’t it? Now way these are a coincidence.

    B.T.D.T.

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  14. This is great news for Donald Trump. Mueller has overplayed his hand on this one.

    Two in the Bush

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  15. I remember the late, great Jerry Pournelle giving the same advice in the wake of Martha Stewart’s conviction for, among other things, making false statements to federal investigators. It was a common misconception that she was convicted of insider trading or perjury, but she wasn’t; she was not under oath, but apparently, even if you’re not, making false statements it’s still a crime if it’s a federal investigator you’re talking to. Pournelle correctly drew the conclusion that you should simply never talk to a federal investigator.

    Hermes

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  16. This is a complete fubar. Where the F is Jeff Sessions? Why are you favoring him Lion? Is he making such incredible strides on illegal immigration to make it worth it? What the heck?

    Just allowing this investigation to roll on unchecked is insane. So now Flynn is a cooperating witness. What a disaster.

    If they could entrap Flynn, surely they can entrap various others? It seems certain that stuff was obtained illegally, or at least in ways that should not be legal.

    Doesn’t the moron Jeff Sessions realize that with enough resources and investigations you can get anyone on something? Doesn’t he also see that having a grand jury in DC where Trump got only 4% of the vote is moronic and insane?

    This has nothing to do with justice. If Trump says something himself then it looks like obstruction or something. But if others cut this off as the witch hunt that it is, then they can take the heat.

    The system seems rigged like nothing in history.

    Dan

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Relax. Everything is going to be fine.

      Two in the Bush

      December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Gotta agree with Dan. Sessions stabbed Trump in the back as his first act as AG. Whatever toughness he has on immigration enforcement is more than offset by the hamstringing of Trump on getting legislation passed under this cloud. No liberal administration member would have recused himself for a “conflict of interest” with a broad, vague investigation without a specified suspected crime.

      Steve@steve.com

      December 2, 2017 at EDT pm

  17. did you know errol flynn was from tasmania?

    and his dad was a professor at the university of tasmania?

    but even more…

    james flynn (the flynn effect) is from chicongo, but has been a professor at otago forever.

    yahoo serious burgundy

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  18. Nothing good can come out of talking to the police. There is simply no reason to. You would think he could have gotten good advice on this.

    ttgy

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  19. Unless you’ve initiated contact with the police to report a crime, press charges, file a complaint, etc then you shouldn’t talk to the police. It doesn’t matter if you’re innocent or think you’re smarter than them. There’s no way to beat law enforcement at their own game. They do it for a living and you don’t. They may try to intimidate by saying something like, “You can either answer my questions here or down at the station.” They’re bluffing. You don’t have to go to the station unless you’re under arrest. And if they had enough evidence to charge you then they already would have. The reason they want to talk to you is to get you to incriminate yourself. So don’t talk to them. It doesn’t matter whether it’s police, FBI, prosecutor or IRS agents. Don’t talk to them. If you get arrested, subpoenaed or audited then have a lawyer or accountant present. Even then, you should let the lawyer or accountant do all the talking. Even if you’re innocent, all you’ll do is incriminate yourself. Do you think I’m kidding? Watch this…

    destructure

    December 1, 2017 at EDT pm

  20. Is Flynn gonna rat out Trump now? You are supposed to take a bullet for your president.

    Yakov

    December 2, 2017 at EDT pm

  21. Why doesn’t Trump just pardon Flynn? What, the liberals might start thinking he’s got something to hide? They already think that, of course, and will never stop.

    Greg Pandatshang

    December 3, 2017 at EDT pm

    • If he turned into a rat, he shouldn’t pardon him.

      Yakov

      December 3, 2017 at EDT pm


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