Lion of the Blogosphere

Harvard class of 2021 less than 50% non-Hispanic white

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40812196

I missed this article back in August.

The affirmative action in favor of black students must be massive to account for such high black enrollment.

If you don’t like Harvard, the thing to do about it is advocate for hiring based on achievement tests instead of college degrees, as I explained in my previous post.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

December 29, 2017 at EDT am

Posted in Education

34 Responses

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  1. “the thing to do about it is advocate for hiring based on achievement tests instead of college degrees”

    Or send money to that fellow coordinating the lawsuits.

    Curle

    December 29, 2017 at EDT am

  2. These last few posts remind me of why the late, great Lawrence Auster was critical of HBDers (and liberal Jews, though Lion is hardly a liberal.) If you don’t have a real attachment to the historical America, you don’t care about the “soft” qualities, the history, culture, peoplehood, civilization of traditional America and the traditional West. If someone is perfectly OK with core American institutions like the Ivy League universities being commandeered by Asians, as long as they have high IQ and high future time orientation, how is that any better than a liberal?

    Hermes

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

    • I don’t see a way to stop it from happening. Especially given that Harvard doesn’t want to be saved from hit happening. Harvard WANTS whites to be a minority of its students, the only thing anyone is arguing about is the percent of Asians vs blacks and Latinos.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

  3. Surely there are enough smart blacks to constitute 14% of a Harvard class. The problem is that once the top schools take the smart ones, there are few left for the next tier, and that’s where affirmative action kicks in. A friend of mine went to a highly regarded state law school, and yet by the time the top blacks had decided to go to the Ivys and such, the ones left for his school (again, a good school) couldn’t make it through the first year.

    Joe

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

    • There aren’t, blacks have a lower IQ and lower std than whites (12 vs 15).

      JW Bell

      December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • If there’s the assumption that Harvard isn’t really that more difficult than other colleges, then Harvard can skim off the blacks capable of minimal college level work.

        But actually, because of intense competition and grading on a curve, it’s actually very difficult to get As at Harvard compared to directional state U. On the other hand, you probably get at least a Gentleman’s C if you try.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • >>But actually, because of intense competition and grading on a curve, it’s actually very difficult to get As at Harvard

        Are you certain that Harvard grades on the curve?

        I took some post college math courses at City College. I always did well in Math in college, but they were applied Math classes (Calc, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Probability, Math Statistics). At City College I took a class on Mathematical Analysis. Whereas before I could cruise along at 80mph, taking Mathematical Analysis was akin to hitting a highway impact attenuator. I went from 80mph to 5 mph in seconds. Proof based Math courses inhabit a different orbit entirely from applied Math courses. So, I asked this dude in the class for a little help because he was on the ball and could get through the proofs. Turns out he had been going to Amherst College (not Umass Amherst) and transferred to City College because he wanted to come to NYC. He told me that the grading in the Math dept. at City College was more rigorous than at Amherst. He said that nobody at Amherst ever received below a B, no matter how badly they did, whereas at City College there were quite a few professors who would give you an F. Amherst College is more difficult to enter than Harvard and the grades and SAT scores of the students are superior to those at Harvard. So, does Harvard just pass a lot of students along just to get them out? I don’t know? Do you know?

        Daniel

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “Are you certain that Harvard grades on the curve?”

        As long as some people get As and some don’t, that means there’s a curve. Even a C at Harvard would probably be an A at a crappy directional state school.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • City College used to be the Harvard of public schools. Maybe it still had some of that mojo left when you attended.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “But actually, because of intense competition and grading on a curve, it’s actually very difficult to get As at Harvard compared to directional state U. On the other hand, you probably get at least a Gentleman’s C if you try.”

        That’s actually not true. Harvard grades on a curve and has internal grades, but then it adds a full grade to make the final grade. So, officially, a B becomes an A, and a C becomes a B. Harvard justifies this by saying that it’s harder to make it at Harvard and to normalize with respect to the other colleges, it just adds a full grade… so that when students are on the job market, they do better. So basically a failing D becomes a passing C.

        On the other hand, when I was teaching at MIT, we were grading on the curve (roughly), but the GPA was on a 5.0 scale, not 4.0. So a B, was still a B, but a B was a 4.0. There some classes were tough, but that toughness really depended on who was taking the class. A big class that was required by everybody was relatively easy (although probably harder than at other colleges), while some niche classes were either very easy or very hard. Say the undergraduate 18.701 Abstract Algebra 1 class was pretty tough because it was required in the pure math major, and few people outside of that major were taking it. Some of the smartest kids were doing pure math. Also, since the people in the major knew each other, they would work together on the problem sets, and learn faster in a group. As an outsider, a random student would have to work much harder on his own to get the same results. Now that was a tough class. This was not a lone example, in fact there are many examples just like this class at MIT.

        Zack

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • @Daniel

        I can vouch for everything you said, as I was a CCNY math major all too many years ago. At first I had lofty ambitions to go to grad school by taking more theoretical courses (number theory, topology, complex variables), but I hit the wall hard in my first semester of advanced calculus and had to settle for a more applied math track (statistics, the more straightforward version of linear algebra, etc.). Fortunately, those served me well in my career. It wasn’t MIT, but it wasn’t Amherst or Bronx Community either.

        sestamibi

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • >>That’s actually not true. Harvard grades on a curve and has internal grades, but then it adds a full grade to make the final grade. So, officially, a B becomes an A, and a C becomes a B. Harvard justifies this by saying that it’s harder to make it at Harvard and to normalize with respect to the other colleges, it just adds a full grade

        University of Chicago doesn’t do anything like that. Over there the profs give you the grade they think you deserve, which is very often the respectable C. They don’t give a shit what this means for your chances of getting into grad school, but then again, any grad school department head with any brains and experience knows how Chicago grades and certainly takes that into account when he receives your application.

        Daniel

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Average, meaning there are many above.

        Joe

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • Those interested in how Harvard decides who to admit can check out the doctoral dissertation “Who gets into Harvard? Selection and Exclusion at an Elite College” by David Karen. It is from 1986. I bought this from UMI some years ago. Also check out the book “The Truth about Harvard” written by a young man who was a Harvard student at the time, Dov Fox. A more scholarly book about Ivy League admissions is “The Chosen” by Jerome Karabel. Although I once read a lot about the Ivy League, I’m actually more impressed with the University of Chicago and what it tried to do under Robert Hutchins. I bought practically every book written about Hutchins and the U of C. A piece of trivia: Robert Hutchins was also the real name of the boy who played “Weezer” in Our Gang/The Little Rascals.

        I once wrote to a semi-famous conservative author and outlined what curriculum I thought would constitute a good 6 year liberal arts education – from age 14 to 20. The author wrote back that “your proposed academic plan might have a chance in the most elite of prep schools, but I’m afraid most other students would just be lost.”

        maryk

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “As long as some people get As and some don’t, that means there’s a curve. ”

        There may be a curve but that doesn’t mean the grades were determined by the curve which as I understand it is what grading on the curve means. When you are grading on the curve you have determined in advance that you want (for example) to give out about 20% A’s, 50% B’s, 20% C’s and 10% D’s or F’s. Then at the end of the year you rank the students and determine the appropriate cutoffs.

        If you are not grading on the curve you have determined in advance that by the end of the course an A student will be able to perform at a certain level, a B student at a certain lesser level and so on. Then at the end of the year you compare each student’s performance to these predetermined cutoffs and assign the appropriate grades. So in theory the entire class could get A’s (or F’s).

        James B. Shearer

        December 30, 2017 at EDT am

      • A “curve” means that not everyone gets an A, whereas everyone WOULD get an A if they attended directional State U, because Harvard is full of the smartest students. The curve doesn’t have to be shaped like a bell to still be a curve.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 30, 2017 at EDT am

    • Thee could theoretically be some smart enough Mulattos, but anyone of pure African descent can at best hope for an IQ of about 130 in their top SD. While technically very smart in relationship to the general population, that’s still pretty much in affirmative action range for Harvard. In addition, the academic and social foundation will likely be lacking.

      This type of AA will merely lessen the value of the Harvard degree over time. The open market doesn’t do AA.

      Sam

      January 5, 2018 at EDT pm

  4. I’m a bit skeptical that Harvard needed massive affirmative action to get qualified black students. Smart black kids—especially if they’re upper class kids from Africa—will happily go to Harvard or Yale or Princeton and will likely do well there (think Barack Obama). But there aren’t enough of these kids to go around, so big public state schools and elite liberal arts colleges have to make do with less competent black kids.

    Hubbard

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

  5. I’ll bet a good chunk of the black students at Harvard are either Africans or biracial.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

  6. How can blacks outnumber Hispanics? That’s weird. Are blacks considered more diverse, so more are admitted? Or maybe they just randomize it a little to not look so obvious.

    God Shammgod

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

    • “Are blacks considered more diverse, so more are admitted?”

      Correct, blacks were brought here as slaves, but Hispanics came her voluntarily, so blacks are more entitled to AA.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • And they are one of two ethnic groups, NAs being the other, where historic connection to the country gives you a leg up over absolute newcomers.

        If I were to ever favor AA it would be based on cumulative family time spent keeping this country going (I’m including ancestor time). The exact opposite of Bret Stephen’s formulation that the country belongs to the newcomers.

        Curle

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • We stole the country from Native Americans, we sort of do owe them something, although when people with 1/32 American Indian blood claim to be entitled to something, I don’t know about that.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

      • “We stole the country from Native Americans, we sort of do owe them something“

        We gave them casinos. And it’s working out much better than when we gave em the gift of liquor.

        You win some, you lose some.

        driveallnight

        December 30, 2017 at EDT pm

  7. I used to be a headhunter. If a candidate had high SATs I said, “Put it on the resume. I will do the selling.” You could go to a mediocre school like Pace college in New York but if you had high SATs I would sell you more forcefully than an Ivy league schmuck who had significantly lower SATs than you. I could always get such candidates interviews.

    Also, if one went to Stuyvesant or Bronx Science, but a mediocre college, I told them to include that fact on the resume. That was a selling point too. I could get these candidates interviews too.

    Daniel

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Yes and I went to Bronx Science too.

      sestamibi

      December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

  8. This post really answers the question of your previous post. The prestige of these elite schools will naturally fall apart once they are run by non-whites. Much like a neighborhood, the white liberal elites will only stick around when the diversity quotient is within an acceptable parameter. When Harvard and Yale start to noticeably take on the characteristics of black, hispanic or even Asian culture then the Wasps will leave. Then lesser know Wasp enclaves like Vanderbilt, Trinity and Elon will become the new Ivy League. It will be the new center of status for the white overclass. And it won’t matter whether they have the same quality of professors or same size endowments as the previous, all that will matter is that the PERCEPTION will change. Watch for this to start happening within the next 10 years.

    B.T.D.T.

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

    • I got into Harvard for grad school recently. They had me meet with a professor, who was from China and spoke English with a strong Chinese accent. Before class several Chinese students came up to the professor, and they started talking in Chinese while I stood there like a fifth wheel, thinking “where the f*** am I? Is this America?”

      I chose not to attend, but the school I chose is filled with Asians too.

      J

      December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

  9. And if you take into account Jewish students (regardless of whether they are 10 or 20% of the total), it will be even more obvious that the kind of people who founded Harvard and made it into world-class institution are the people discriminated against the most by Harvard. (Further, when corrected for legacy, super-rich and white Catholic admissions, it will become mind-boggling how strongly WASP descendants are disfavored.)

    mapman

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

  10. They are conflating Caucasians (most of whom aren’t white) with Whites. The only Caucasians they break out as a separate classification are Native Americans and Caucasian-Asians such as the Indians. (Native Americans according to DNA research are of Turkish and Russian Aboriginal ethnicity, except for those in the far north, who are East Asian.) So if you looked around the Harvard campus for what we would call white people, it is probably far less than the 50% listed.

    CamelCaseRob

    December 29, 2017 at EDT pm

    • Do you limit “white to northern European ancestry or even Germanic/Nordic ancestry. Are my French grandparents white?

      From a phylogenetic perspective, Caucasian and White are synonyms. Jews and Arabs are White. Of course, Iranians (Persian for Aryan), Afghanis, Pakis, Hindus are Indo-Europeans and speak Indo-European languages, just like Germans.

      bob sykes

      December 30, 2017 at EDT am

  11. The Jerusalem Post claims that 25% of Harvard’s undergraduates are Jews, so, if they are counted among the 50% non-Hispanic whites, Harvard’s white students are fully half Jews. If you assume the typical Harvard undergrad has an IQ of 115, then an admission process based on merit would result in only 7% of Harvard’s undergrads being Jews, 14% of its white undergrads. This supports Unz’s claim about Jewish over-representation at Harvard being the result of active discrimination. Yale is worse.

    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-most-heavily-Jewish-US-college-and-other-facts-about-Jews-at-American-colleges-437701

    bob sykes

    December 30, 2017 at EDT am

    • The JPost article is based on bogus data. They give no accounting of their sources. A local Hillel chapter probably overstated the percent of Jews to try to boost their own importance. #Fakenews.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 30, 2017 at EDT am

  12. I’m unclear as to the % of Blacks are actually from African nations vs. US Blacks.

    Robert

    December 30, 2017 at EDT pm


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