Lion of the Blogosphere

Does Harvard still have Jewish quotas?

The way that Pew and other surveys count Jews is to ask people “What’s your religion?” and if they answer “Jewish” then it means they are Jewish, otherwise they are not Jewish. Using this method of counting Jews, Jews are 1.8% of the U.S. population, and 7.7% of Harvard (according to the Harvard class of 2021 survey). It’s an apples to apples comparison, using the same counting method.

According to La Griffe du Lion, Jewish IQ is 0.8 standard deviations above the white mean.

We previously discussed that the average Harvard student has an SAT score that’s 2.65 standard deviations above the average SAT score (or the top 0.4%).

Plugging all of these numbers into Excel, using the NORMSDIST() function, Jews ought to be 14.4% of Harvard, but they are only 7.7%, therefore we might conclude that Harvard still has Jewish quotas to prevent too many Jews from attending.

UPDATE: Originally I said Jews were 1.9% of Americans, but the latest Pew survey says 1.8%, so I updated the numbers to reflect that.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

December 31, 2017 at 12:47 PM

Posted in Education

55 Responses

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  1. I think you need to put Harvard and Jewish percentages to rest.

    Harvard is just another university that churns out people for the matrix.

    JS

    December 31, 2017 at 1:40 PM

    • Leon is triggered. 🙂

      destructure

      January 1, 2018 at 5:38 PM

      • Why should I be triggered just because people hate me because my grandparents prayed to a different God?

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 1, 2018 at 5:43 PM

      • Why should I be triggered

        You triggered destructure by pointing out antisemites are habitual liars.

        It’s just one of those facts destructure doesn’t want you to “notice”.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        January 1, 2018 at 6:10 PM

  2. Nice, thanks for the update. One interpretation is that Jews there are from a pool not as smart as the PR claims.

    I also suspect Jews are over-claimed, though Pew seems to be asking the right question. Pew has a reputation for not truly sampling widely or making up definitions, though. http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/10/jewish-american-survey-app-a-methodology.pdf

    Happy 2018.

    Robert

    December 31, 2017 at 1:48 PM

  3. That 7.7% may only include those who identify themselves as Jewish by religion as opposed to Ashkenazi by descent, don’t you think?

    thesoftpath

    December 31, 2017 at 1:53 PM

    • There’s a question. “What’s your religion?” or something like that. One of the boxes says “Jewish.”

      That’s the normal definition of “Jewish” used by surveys. So it’s an apples to apples comparison.

      How Jewish is someone who is only one quarter Jewish? Having known some very Catholic people who fit into that category, I would answer not very Jewish at all.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 31, 2017 at 2:52 PM

      • >>How Jewish is someone who is only one quarter Jewish? Having known some very Catholic people who fit into that category, I would answer not very Jewish at all.

        The late John Cardinal O’Connor of New York, his mother was born Orthodox Jewish.
        Pope John Paul II’s mother was born Jewish.

        Daniel

        December 31, 2017 at 6:37 PM

  4. H=Harvard-level SAT (IQ)
    J=Jewish
    NJ=Non-Jewish
    P(J)=0.018
    P(NJ)=1-P(J)=0.982
    P(H|NJ)=z(2.65)=0.0040
    P(H|J)=z(2.65-0.80)=z(1.85)=0.0322
    Bayes theorem:
    P(J|H)=P(H|J)*P(J)/( P(H|J)*P(J) + P(H|NJ)*P(NJ) )
    P(J|H)=0.0322*0.018/( 0.0322*0.018 + 0.0040*0.982 )=0.1286=12.86%

    steve@steve.com

    December 31, 2017 at 2:32 PM

  5. Jews with two Jewish parents are 3% of all white Americans.

    The Ivy League’s estimated 20-30% Jewish population is actually 10-15% because those surveys include whites with partial Jewish ancestry as Jews with two parents. The combined Jewish and partial Jewish population is greater than 3% of the white population:

    http://www.hillel.org/about/news-views/news-views—blog/news-and-views/2004/01/21/jewish-students-involved-connections-vary

    That is one conclusion from National Jewish Population Survey 2000-01 data released by the United Jewish Communities (UJC), the survey’s sponsor, at the recent Hillel international professional staff conference. Addressing the Hillel Conference in Princeton, NJ, NJPS Project Manager Lorraine Blass and NJPS Research Director Laurence Kotler-Berkowitz estimated that there were 268,300 Jews age 18-24, and 91,300 Jews age 25-29 on campuses in 2000-01, for a total campus Jewish population of 359,600. An estimated 232,600 Jews age 18-24 were not on campus, some of whom were still in high school and a majority of whom reported that they were working full or part time. NJPS was conducted from August 2000 through August 2001 and included interviews with 217 Jews, ages 18-29, who were in college at the time of the survey. UJC’s PowerPoint presentation on Jewish college students is available at ujc.org and hillel.org.

    snip

    The NJPS data reveal that the college-age Jewish population is almost evenly split between those who have two Jewish parents (48 percent) and those who have only one Jewish parent (45 percent). Students with two Jewish parents tend to be more religiously observant and Jewishly connected than those with only one Jewish parent. For example, 80 percent of those with two Jewish parents felt very positive about being Jewish compared to 65 percent among those with one Jewish parent. Both groups demonstrated an interest in Jewish studies, with 43 percent of those with two Jewish parents and 24 percent of those with one Jewish parent taking at least one Jewish studies course during their time in college.

    The Undiscovered Jew

    December 31, 2017 at 2:41 PM

  6. Of course Harvard has Jewish quotas as I have been saying in the last few threads.

    There is a story (probably apocryphal) where Harvard’s Dean Rosovsky met with the admissions committee and was told that “We don’t want too many students from the doughnut around New York City.” Supposedly, Rosovsky responded “That’s not a doughnut, that’s a bagel.”

    fortaleza84

    December 31, 2017 at 2:46 PM

    • Strange and how ludicrous American education can be, when the majority of Harvard grads flock to NYC for Wall St/McKinsey, and CA for venture capital, after graduation.

      This country is effing insane.

      JS

      December 31, 2017 at 3:06 PM

  7. The antisemites and paleoconservatives need to be purged Buckley style.

    The Undiscovered Jew

    December 31, 2017 at 3:01 PM

    • The only thing antisemites want to discuss are their hallucinations and deliberate lies about Jews having ulterior motives and interests from white gentiles, and this is dragging down a movement that started with GNXP into Stormfront retardation.

      Their antisemitic hallucinations are the main reason we have no sensible Nationalist political movement comparable to UKIP and a number of other European Nationalist parties that either were never antisemitic or have given up on it.

      There is Trump but he is not an antisemite and seems to be doing everything by pure instinct and cunning instead of a well thought out platform such as what Nigel Farage put forward in Britain.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      December 31, 2017 at 3:06 PM

      • Bizarre. Farage has quit, UKIP lost all local seats, all 145. Everyone’s fled to the Cons.

        Between that reality and your purging nonsense – which was done and accomplished nothing productive – you might be thought to have a hidden agenda of directing populist energy down pointless channels.

        Artifact

        December 31, 2017 at 4:25 PM

      • Farage has quit, UKIP lost all local seats,

        UKIP’s purpose was to serve as an electoral vehicle to carry a ‘Leave’ vote across the finish line.

        It fulfilled its purpose, and therefore is no longer needed except as a specter over the Tories to get them to complete some plausible exit negotiation with Brussels.

        And the referendum was won without including antisemites in Farage’s uprising.

        you might be thought to have a hidden agenda of directing populist energy down pointless channels.

        I’m sorry you are hallucinating the “productive” channels as Richard Spencer leading his Aryan gay-rights marches.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        December 31, 2017 at 5:16 PM

    • After the paleocons were purged we got amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants and 2 disastrous wars.

      David Pinsen

      December 31, 2017 at 8:01 PM

      • After the paleocons were purged we got amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants

        1) They were kicked out of National Review in the mid-1990s. From the mid-90s to Trump there were no significant amnesties except, I believe, a few limited ones for Caribbean illegals during the Clinton administration.

        NumbersUSA and Tancredo were nonetheless able to fight amnesty off during Bush 2.0

        2) If washed up failures like Buchanan and Brimelow are still seething about losing their space at NR 20 years after the fact then they are too weak in character to have done anything about immigration if they had remained.

        and 2 disastrous wars.

        LOL that you think your fellow eunuch paleoconservatives would have stopped those wars even if they had kept their pwwwecious NR columns.

        Btw, the first of those was the fault of Afghanistan being the base for Al Qaeda, not America’s fault.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        December 31, 2017 at 9:24 PM

    • Purged from what? The internet?

      Mike Street Station

      January 1, 2018 at 8:41 AM

      • Purged from what? The internet?

        Nationalist politics like Nigel Farage, Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders, and others did in Western Europe.

        What’s the case for keeping them?

        I told Lion’s audience for close to 10 years that antisemites and paleocons – and the substantial mental disorders associated with their obsession with Jews – needed to be excluded or they would destroy HBD. Nobody listened and now all of the progres made in the GNXP era has been completely wiped in favor of Richard Spencer who shit his pants when he was once interviewed to be lead editor of Taki’s – and the great intellectual Taki gave him the job anyway!

        The Undiscovered Jew

        January 1, 2018 at 2:34 PM

      • You can purge someone from writing at a particular magazine, but you can’t purge them from a movement. I don’t know in what practical way you can do a “purge.”

        Mike Street Station

        January 1, 2018 at 6:11 PM

      • Purges work very well.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 1, 2018 at 6:58 PM

      • You can purge someone from writing at a particular magazine, but you can’t purge them from a movement.

        Movements by definition have the ability to exclude others based on political beliefs. Otherwise there would be nothing preventing, say, Monarchists from joining the French Revolutionaries.

        The paleocons have done it themselves. For example, the writer Robert Locke was removed from Brimelow’s VDare and excluded from paleocon circles when he wrote a VDare column advocating expulsion of the Palestinians from the West Bank.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        January 1, 2018 at 7:15 PM

  8. “Jewish IQ is 0.8 standard deviations above the white mean.”

    What % of American jews are sephardic?

    Lion o' the Turambar

    December 31, 2017 at 3:17 PM

    • A pretty small number, but it’s worth noting that a hundred years ago, the Sephardic Jews in America looked down upon the Ashkenazi as being inferior.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 31, 2017 at 3:52 PM

      • I’ve never heard that. What’s your source for that view?

        When I looked that up online this says the opposite:

        “…in his book La America: The Sephardic Experience in the United States, Marc Angel, Rabbi of the Spanish and Portuguese Synagogue in New York City, estimates that 30,000 Sephardim came to America between 1890 and 1924, 80 to 90 percent of whom settled in Manhattan’s Lower East Side.

        As that is still a small number compared to the two million Ashkenazim who arrived at the same time from Poland, Russia and Germany, they quickly felt like a minority within a minority.

        This was not, however, for reasons of numbers alone. Many of the new Sephardic immigrants did not find the welcome they received from the Ashkenazim as warm as they had expected. “They used to call us black Jews,” recalls Morris Calderon…”

        http://sefarad.org/lm/036/6.html

        Artifact

        December 31, 2017 at 4:32 PM

      • “I’ve never heard that. What’s your source for that view?”

        My Jewish mother. She told me a very convincing story about a mixed marriage (Sephardic and Ashkenazi) and the Sephardic family boycotted the wedding because they were so outraged that their kid married a lower form of Jew.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        December 31, 2017 at 5:09 PM

      • >>>She told me a very convincing story about a mixed marriage (Sephardic and Ashkenazi) and the Sephardic family boycotted the wedding because they were so outraged that their kid married a lower form of Jew.

        I believe that. That’s how people are. I heard that those Syrian Jews, out on Ocean Pky, won’t marry non-Syrian Jews. The Syrian Jews aren’t even Sephardic. BTW, the Syrian Jewesses are quite good looking.

        Daniel

        December 31, 2017 at 7:29 PM

      • The Sephardic Jews were mostly elites — successful merchants and the like kicked out of Recife, that sort of thing. German Ashkenazi Jews who came over in the 19th Century were elite too, but Pale of Settlement Ashkenazis who came later weren’t.

        David Pinsen

        December 31, 2017 at 8:04 PM

      • “I’ve never heard that. What’s your source for that view?”

        Look in any standard book about American Jewish history. The first Jews to come to Colonial America were Sephardim, who moved to the major trading centers. The biggest Jewish community was Charleston, SC.

        Marc Angel is talking about an entirely different group of Jews, much more prole.

        gothamette

        December 31, 2017 at 8:21 PM

      • “I’ve never heard that. What’s your source for that view?”

        Stephen Birmingham wrote about this in three books: “The Grandees” (about socially prominent Sephardic Jews), “Our Crowd” (about socially prominent German Jews), and “The Rest of Us” (about socially prominent Eastern European Jews).

        Anything by Stephen Birmingham is great. He touches on themes that are often discussed here at this blog – wealth and ethnicity – in a way that doesn’t succumb to the grievance mongering that is so common when these topics are otherwise addressed. He also has a novelist’s eye for detail and nack for story-telling. His books might even be interesting enough that even Lion would read them to their final chapters.

        John D'oh

        December 31, 2017 at 9:35 PM

      • Spanish Sephardim were considered superior over Ashkenazim, because they were more socially adept with non-Jews coming from historical circumstances. Events in Medieval Spain led Christians, Muslims and Jews to interact with one another in very bizarre ways, where they had to cooperate with one another, and Jews had to be socially savvy/diplomatic with non-Jews as a result. Ashkenazim never developed this trait or “people skills” since they were disliked by their gentile neighbors, where they became insular and shun the outside world.

        JS

        December 31, 2017 at 9:47 PM

      • You can group the Sephardic Iberian Jews to three different groups, the ones who immigrated to the north to Holland or Britain, the ones who immigrated to the east along the southern coast of Europe and the ones who immigrated to North Africa.
        The ones who immigrated to the North produced people like Shpinoza or Disraeli, at the time no Ashkenazi Jew was even close to this level of success and recognition in the non rabbinic world and therefore it was not without reason that they looked down on the ashkenazi Jews. They were more successful and more western. The ones who immigrated east were doing well economically as merchants and interestingly also as blue collar workers, for example the Thessaloniki harbour used to close during the Sabbath because most of the workers there were Jewish. The north Africans were a bit different, the influence of the Arab world created a slightly different culture.
        So all together, while the Ashkenazis were in a pretty rotten miserable situation which led also to more religious extremism in the form of the Hassidic movement or the Mitnagdim (Non Hassidic ultra orthodox) strictness, the Sephardic were relatively thriving, more moderate and had all the reasons to look down on their Ashkenazi brethren. This was the situation in the old world, in the new world and even in Jerusalem where Sephardic communities used to be richer and more established than the Ashkenazi new immigrants of the 17-19th century. In the 20th century things started to change.

        Hashed

        January 1, 2018 at 1:31 AM

      • The majority of the Jews who interacted with our Founding Fathers in America and took arms to fight in the revolution were Sephardim who came from the Netherlands.

        Ashkenazim Jews in Germany weren’t even emancipated at this time and were still regulated as social pariahs and outsiders.

        JS

        January 1, 2018 at 11:42 AM

    • I would bet that a non-trivial percentage of younger Jews in the US are Hasidic and therefore unlikely to seek secular higher education.

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      December 31, 2017 at 8:14 PM

      • As the numbers grow, so will the attrition. The current situation is unsustainable.

        Yakov

        December 31, 2017 at 10:18 PM

      • Dunno. Some young Hasidim become more moderate as they become adults, but if there are any statistics on that I’ve never seen any.

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        January 1, 2018 at 9:28 AM

  9. “… are 1.8% of the U.S. population,…”

    What you want is the fraction of the population which is age 18.

    And you need to account for the slots set aside for Hispanics and blacks.

    James Shearer

    December 31, 2017 at 3:55 PM

  10. Why don’t you tell us what the absolute number of Jews at Harvard is, and what the total number of undergrads is?

    Explainer 21

    December 31, 2017 at 3:57 PM

  11. Good that it is apples to apples, but “what is your religion” strikes me as a poor way of finding Jews, particularly at an Ivy league school where the majority of Jews are atheists. The respondent would really have to know that the questioner is really asking “are you Jewish” (which most Jews would have no problem admitting in America) instead of “are you religious” or “do you believe in God” (which would most Harvard students would see as an admission of ignorance or prole conservatism) to get good results. Are Jews that identify as Jewish and Jewish as smart as a group as those who identify as Jewish and atheist?

    I’d like to see a survey that simply asks if they are Jewish, and if they say yes, follow up with a question about what percentage of their ancestry is Jewish to identify 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 Jews.

    PerezHBD

    December 31, 2017 at 5:20 PM

  12. Intelligence is correlated with atheism. I suspect that explains the discrepancy.

    pithom

    December 31, 2017 at 6:11 PM

  13. if your next post is about Harvard I’m gonna scream.

    Seth O'Largo (@SethLargo)

    December 31, 2017 at 8:06 PM

  14. Interesting, I’d never felt discriminated against. My cousin went to Harvard on full scholarship. She is smart, but not some kind of a genius that I can’t best in an argument. Regardless, Jews gotta stick together and help each other. The numbers say we are getting the raw deal. Not sure what to think about it though. I mean, how many Jews should Harvard have? I mean, if you just go by merit, you may get more than 50% Jews. Is that acceptable? I dunno. Anyway, I hope none of my descendants ever go there. Jews should go to Israel and not to Harvard. Leave Harvard to the Gentiles.

    Yakov

    December 31, 2017 at 8:49 PM

  15. And while you’re on the subject, didn’t the Lion once run a GSS query showing Jews are opposed to affirmative action?

    The Undiscovered Jew

    December 31, 2017 at 9:10 PM

    • It’s pretty clear that the average Jew isn’t the extreme liberal SJW that anti-Semites think they are.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      December 31, 2017 at 9:13 PM

    • If Jews don’t support AA then that kind of kills the entire point/lie the antisemites are making about college admissions.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      December 31, 2017 at 9:25 PM

  16. More motivated reasoning.

    If you actually look at the data you are citing you will see that 13.7% of the whites identify as Jewish religiously, compared to 12.7% that identify as Protestant and 22.3% that identify as Catholic. That ratio (13.7% / 48.7%) gives the real first approximation of how many of Harvard’s white students are Jewish (about 30%).

    Looking at the data from other years Harvard whites are on average 30% Jewish, and always slightly outnumber Protestants.

    So in a world with only Jews and gentile whites Jews ought to be 14.5% of the population, but its actually close to 30%. And that 14.5% number is already an upper bound which only makes sense if you really believe Harvard is 2.65+ SD on average (it’s more like +2).

    tictak

    December 31, 2017 at 10:27 PM

    • If you actually look at the data you are citing you will see that 13.7% of the whites identify as Jewish religiously, compared to 12.7% that identify as Protestant and 22.3% that identify as Catholic. That ratio (13.7% / 48.7%) gives the real first approximation of how many of Harvard’s white students are Jewish (about 30%).

      Looking at the data from other years Harvard whites are on average 30% Jewish, and always slightly outnumber Protestants.

      What mental disorder do you have that makes you an obsessive compulsive liar?

      15% of Harvard students are Jewish because half of all self reported Jewish students have one gentile parent.

      http://www.hillel.org/about/news-views/news-views—blog/news-and-views/2004/01/21/jewish-students-involved-connections-vary

      The NJPS data reveal that the college-age Jewish population is almost evenly split between those who have two Jewish parents (48 percent) and those who have only one Jewish parent (45 percent). Students with two Jewish parents tend to be more religiously observant and Jewishly connected than those with only one Jewish parent. For example, 80 percent of those with two Jewish parents felt very positive about being Jewish compared to 65 percent among those with one Jewish parent. Both groups demonstrated an interest in Jewish studies, with 43 percent of those with two Jewish parents and 24 percent of those with one Jewish parent taking at least one Jewish studies course during their time in college.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      January 1, 2018 at 2:28 PM

  17. It’s also worth keeping in mind that your Pew numbers do not provide an apples to apples comparison because:

    1) The # of Jewish Millennials who identify as religiously Jewish is significantly lower than population average (68% of millennial Jews ID as Jewish by religion, compared to about 85% of Jews overall). Your Pew method overpredicts the number of millennials who identify as Jewish by about 1/3.

    2) The percentage of elite undergrads who identify as religious is lower than the overall millennial average. 35% of Millenials ID as ‘other’ (nonChristian) compared to 65% of Harvard’s kids. There are way more atheists, agnostics, and others at Harvard than there are in the general population. Another important reason why the 7.7% religiously Jewish at Harvard is not an apples to apples compare with 1.8% religiously Jewish in the population, but instead greatly undercounts the proportion of ethnic Jews.

    tictak

    December 31, 2017 at 10:42 PM

  18. Sending kids to Harvard and Ivy can be very stupid. Look at Lion and my cousin: with all those brains they had no kids. Is this good for the family of the nation? No! Lion would have done better in life as plumber or an electrician and my cousin as a Walmart employee. Who needs to go to these schools? So a plumber doesn’t know what a standard deviation is and can’t speculate about how many Jews are doing this and doing that, and when the robots are gonna take over. I mean, in the context of one’s life on this here planet, who cares? I’m starting to hate Harvard. There needs to be a middle ground, I think. Like get an education, but don’t worship these places and don’t imagine your life is somehow ruined if you didn’t get in.

    Say me, I was freezing working on the roof yesterday, realy freezing mates! This isn’t a hyperbole or something. But I came home with $600 cash in my pocket and this is kinda little, but is good enough for me in this case for whatever reason. Lemme see a guy from Harvard or a robot do it. Lolz.

    Yakov

    January 1, 2018 at 7:48 AM

    • You got a Lion overdose, I agree that in some way his vision is blocked by a Manhattan office building in one side and a tall Christmas tree on the other, however it still doesn’t mean that being a Walmart employee or a plumber is better than many other jobs all the way up to an investment banker.

      Hashed

      January 1, 2018 at 6:16 PM

    • >>No! Lion would have done better in life as plumber or an electrician

      Lion (and myself) would have done even better as a Sandhogs. These proles are raping the New York taxpayer and are the single most important factor why New York City’s transit infrastructure has made such little progress over the past 60 years. Over the past 60 years we have had a few pitiful miles added to the system whereas hundreds of miles should have been added. The MTA should have bored a subway tunnel to Staten Island decades ago and integrated it with the Staten Island railroad and spread feeder lines all over the country, not to mention that huge areas of Queens are completely unserved by the subway system.

      Subway construction costs are 5-10 times what costs are in other parts of the world. Unbelievable union abuse. Massively overstaffed projects, parasitical “consultants” swarming all over projects, 100s of no-show jobs. Minimum wages that start at $100/hour and top out with overtime at $400/ hour. And they have a lock on this work that politicians don’t dare touch ($$$$$$).

      The Sandhogs are run by a cabal of Irish American families and they pass union membership down like some family droit de seigneur. If your father, brother, uncle or father-in-law is not a Sandhog, you don’t get into the union. And nobody will do anything about it.

      Daniel

      January 1, 2018 at 6:49 PM

      • A commenter from that article is living in the French Canadian paradise and he compares it to NY:

        “So so glad I left nyc. I now live in Montreal where there’re are strong unions and massive government involvement in the economy. I pay far lower property taxes and my income taxes are about the same (pre new tax laws).

        How is it a socialist paradise like Quebec is more efficient and taxes me less than New York? The political system. Governments are routinely changed when they show signs of corruption. Gerrymandering is not a thing here.

        If there’s no incentive to look out for the taxpayers, you get the MTA”

        JS

        January 1, 2018 at 8:48 PM

      • “How is it a socialist paradise like Quebec is more efficient and taxes me less than New York?”
        Well Quebec has much better demographics than NY, but that´s changing fast, Brossard is soon having its very own muslims only neighborhood.
        ” The political system” The american political system is much more corrupt than the canadian one, that is nothing new, but Quebec is the most corrupt province in Canada. Montreal´s previous mayor is in prison for extortion, so it¨s not like Quebec/Montreal are models of transparency.
        https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ex-montreal-mayor-applebaum-sentenced-to-one-year-in-prison-for-corruption/article34501569/

        Daniel Gonzalez

        January 2, 2018 at 3:16 AM

    • Yakov, where did you get your HVAC training? I’m interested in pursuing this line of work. I tried learning welding, but have failed miserably at it.

      Daniel

      January 1, 2018 at 6:51 PM


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