Lion of the Blogosphere

If you think that arming teachers is a good idea

Then you’re a prole. And not the smart kind of prole.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

February 22, 2018 at EST am

Posted in Proles

138 Responses

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  1. Yes. Arming police is bad enough.

    Clay

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • Israel is prole then. Schools are soft targets. Lot of bad people. Gov is hamstrung by PC.

      whiskeysplace

      February 22, 2018 at EST am

      • Israel is totally prole. Proley macho jews, religous wackjob jews, and crypto guido arabs.

        Magnavox

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Teachers in Israel don’t carry guns, it is not against the law to carry it but most citizens in Israel don’t carry guns so statistically the chances that some teacher will carry a gun are low. There are guards though in most public places including schools, not all of them are really trained, it is more for deterrence. There are many soldiers and police who do carry guns and in most serious cases they are the first responders. Because of that and the tiny size of the country it is very likely that someone trained with a weapon will be around but I don’t think this will work in America.

        Hashed

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • There was an armed deputy in the Florida school…
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/22/stoneman-douglas-shooting-armed-guard-did-not-go-in
      He has resigned…

      Dr Hook

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  2. I think it’s largely an irrelevant idea. The number of actual teachers who are trained on firearms to the extent that they feel they can comfortably walk around in a school strapped has to be very tiny. There just are not going to be enough weapons confident teachers to make this program…anything. And I’m not sure I would trust teachers who have no weapons background to volunteer to be “trained” to become one.

    In practice, if this were to really happen, it would be limited to the very few teachers who are former law enforcement. So…hardly any.

    Mike Street Station

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • Pretty much every football coach would be confident to carry a weapon. It doesn’t have to be the lady French teacher.

      Dave Pinsen

      February 23, 2018 at EST am

  3. What are your thoughts on having armed security guards at the school? What does this community think?

    Ivanthegrozny

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • A school is not a Walmart. There should be controlled access at all times.

      map

      February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  4. Not as a requirement, but I think that teachers that want to be armed, should be armed. A man with a gun gets more respect than a man without, so it will have a beneficial effect on the class discipline and student grades. I mean, if the students are armed, why not the teachers?

    What prompted the post?

    Yakov

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • Now, what happens when the teacher starts blowing away people for no good reason? If teachers physically abuse their students, most certainly they can put a bullet into them.

      JS

      February 22, 2018 at EST am

      • Other armed teachers will rub him out. So your kids will come home with something like: ‘Ma, there is no homework because the teachers had a shoot out and are all in the hospital or dead’. Better dead teachers than dead students. Don’t you think so?

        Yakov

        February 25, 2018 at EST pm

    • “A man with a gun gets more respect than a man without”

      A man without a gun is not a man.

      Horace Pinker

      February 22, 2018 at EST am

      • This is so prole.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Lion – so what’s the SWPL answer?

        njguy73

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • I’m paraphrasing one of Nicolas Cage’s lines in ‘Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans.’ I like it and it works for lots of things. “A man who doesn’t support Trump? That’s not a man.” “A man who’s bitching about racism? That’s not a man.” Plus, nothing about Nicolas Cage is prole, not even his collection of exotic reptiles or arrests for public drunkenness and domestic violence.

        Horace Pinker

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Cage’s real name is Coppola which is pretty guido and guido is prole.

        Magnavox

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Prole solutions for prole people.

        not too late

        February 25, 2018 at EST pm

    • Most teachers will automatically fail the criteria for being an armed man.

      Anthony

      February 22, 2018 at EST am

      • Don’t assume their gender, cis-scum.

        Panther of the Blogocube

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • There are plenty of men that look much smaller with a gun then without. This is a youtuber who I like a lot that does videos about technology and I laughed (at him) for a good five minutes straight when I saw what a gun nut he was.

      Magnavox

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Magna, it’s not the size of the man in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the man.

        Anyway, a tinsky girl with a gun has an advantage over Mike Tyson without it. So I don’t know what you are saying.

        Yakov

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • Why not just give them to the athletic instructors who are already largely prole anyway (even at private schools) and thus would make better marksmen if the need arises?

      The Undiscovered Jew

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • Letting anyone know who’s armed and who isn’t would defeat the purpose of the proposal, which is to make schools harder targets. If a would-be school shooter knows somebody will probably shoot back, but has no idea who, hopefully they’ll make other plans. I guess I’m the dumb kind of prole, because I think arming teachers is a great idea, but the point is to create uncertainty for potential attackers, not walk around like the new sheriff. The guns need to be concealed.

      J1

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  5. I think it depends on what “arming teachers” means. If it means allowing teachers with concealed carry permits to carry in schools, then what’s the harm? Might prevent some casualties every now and then. In practice, this means just a few teachers at every school would carry. Probably the gym teacher or football coach will be among them. Teachers tend to be liberal, or at least soft-hearted, so fewer of them are inclined to carry than among the general population.

    Of course a teacher with a handgun is still at a disadvantage in a firefight with a kid (really, a young adult) with an AR. Especially if that kid put on kevlar, though among school shooters this is rare.

    If “arming teachers” means handing every teacher a gun and saying, “Here, take this!” then sure, that’s stupid.

    Wency

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • Here’s what I think would happen, at least in an urban school, if word got around that one or more teachers might be carrying: 3 or 4 black kids would surround the teacher and take the piece for themselves. I mean, if cops refuse to go into ghetto areas alone for just that reason, why shoukd it be different in a school?

      About ten years ago, I walked across the GGB bridge from Sausalito into the SF Richmond district. That’s about 6 miles, so I was exhausted. I sat down on a concrete bench outside an elementary school, the bench seemingly being devoted to the public and separated from the playground by a 15 foot-high fence. Some official immediately came out and said if I didn’t leave she’d call the cops. The only question in the Florida case was why they weren’t on the lookout for a kid they’d expelled the year before.

      Marty

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Seriously? If the students were doing that, they could just as easily rob teachers’ wallets, cell phones, and shoes every day. Or take their car keys and drive their car to a chop shop. There’s a difference between a ghetto school and a Mexican prison.

        But that’s not even what we’re talking about. We’re talking about a measure that maybe stops a psycho-kid in a normal school every now and then without having to re-order society around such low-frequency events.

        Wency

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • I’m sorry, I don’t understand your reply. The question is, why not arm teachers? and one sensible response is, because they’re easily disarmed themselves. Niw that’s “not even” what we’re talking about? OK, diesn’t matter to me, I don’t have kids. But in case you haven’t noticed, the people who go into teaching these days are not exactly hugh-T types. The remark about cell phones, wallets is just idiocy. Black kids can get them anywhere. The prospect of uncovering a gun while Mr. Peepers is busy dealing with some other distraction would be a much more exciting prospect for these monsters. I usually enjoy your comments but you let me down here. In fairness, even moderately successful people have very little exposure to black kids.

      Marty

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Well your original point was not just breaking into a desk drawer but brazenly mugging teachers and getting away with it, which would basically make that school a live-action Lord of the Flies. And my point is that ghetto schools are bad, but not that bad. I know a few people who taught at some pretty rough schools, and I’ve heard some stories, but nothing like openly mugging a teacher and getting away with it. If it happens, that school would be bad even by the standards of the black underclass.

        But my bigger point is that even if some ghetto schools are acting out something like Lord of the Flies, letting teachers carry guns isn’t about restoring order to those schools (which would require locking more kids up, or at least cracking some skulls), it’s about maybe preventing some nonzero percentage of massacres in normal (i.e., mostly civilized) schools.

        Wency

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  6. I watched a bit of the Trump listening thing the other day and everyone seemed to agree that we need to force districts to undergo training for these situations. I just googled it and there are 35,000 schools in the United States. They should all train for something that happens once a year across the entire country? By that standard, all we would do is prepare for bad things. We already waste enough time on tornado drills, guarding against a threat that is no more common.

    All this is assuming that “training” and “practice” actually matters, which is highly doubtful given how little of their instruction students tend to retain in other areas.

    If they’re talking about something on the news, you’re almost guaranteed an overreaction.

    Jeremy Cooper

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • My kid’s preschool does active shooter training. I’m surprised all schools don’t. I drop him off once a week and half the time there’s a cop sitting in the parking lot. They make all of the schools in the town part of their regular patrol. Arming teachers is a bad idea, but I like the idea of qualified, armed security guards like ex-cops and ex-military people who aren’t crazy. It would be a negligible cost even for underfunded school districts.

      Horace Pinker

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • I dunno, if each one of these guys costs $30,000 a year and there are 35,000 schools, it’s a total cost to the country of over $1 billion a year! If you stopped all school shootings you’d save maybe what, 20 people a year? I’m sure if you spent $1 billion in a smarter way you could save a lot more.

        Jeremy Cooper

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  7. I think Trump is just trying to change the subject and go on the offensive, get the ball on the other side of the court so they sweat a little. The bind here is that gun rights advocates have been so effective at enacting their views, that if you’re like Trump and hate playing defense you’re stuck pushing very lame ideas.

    Richard

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • My advice is to push the mental health angle, maybe tie it into other social problems like homelessness. There are a lot of people walking around who should be institutionalized, and since the left hates doing anything about it this is a sure winner for Trump.

      Richard

      February 22, 2018 at EST am

      • The mental health “angle” is a good idea in a general way, but this issue is a tragedy because local law, social workers, and the FBI all dropped the ball. That’s the real problem: when someone threatens to shoot up a school, law enforcement will just sit there until it happens.

        Mike Street Station

        February 22, 2018 at EST am

      • This is dead on — on both counts.

        SWPL2

        February 22, 2018 at EST am

      • Deinstitutionalization happened because of the liberal philosophy that the right of people to walk around in public acting psychotic is sacrosanct, and society has no right to keep people “warehoused” in hospitals if they don’t want to be there. After that created all these problems with untreated mental illness, the left then started blaming the right, claiming that it happened because Ronald Reagan and other conservatives slashed mental health budgets.

        Hermes

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • The libertarians, in particular Thomas Szasz, played an important role in the deinstitutionalization movement.

        Lewis Medlock

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • There’s a pendulum thing going on. It really was a bit much to be lobotomising and electroshocking extreme eccentrics. And now the pendulum has swung too far the other way and it’s a bit much to have obvious nut jobs pooping on sidewalks every day.

        I think psychiatry is steadily being subsumed by modern physiology and neuroscience. We have better and better understanding of how what are really metabolic and endocrine problems manifest in the brain as malfunctions. I foresee simple blood and imaging tests that actually work and aren’t bullshit that can reliably determine when somebody’s wiring is on the fritz. This will eliminate the genuine problem that eccentrics were getting rounded up.

        bobbybobbob

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • The mental health angle is the over-medication of high school kids that is often encouraged by school boards and school administrators.

        map

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

    • The GOP position is insane, and Trumps instincts are, as usual, spot on. He should agree to gun reforms but tie it to other things that the democrats are impeding like immigration reform.

      Magnavox

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • I was watching the video of Trump listening to the grievances of the students and their parents from the HS in Parkland Florida where the gunman killed 17.

      Some of those students are likely descendants of ex-New Yorkers. Andrew Pollack, the father of Meadow Pollack is no doubt a New Yorker who talks you know who from the outskirts of Staten Island or Long Island.

      This entire act looks rehearsed and fake.

      Julia Cordover, the “student body” president sitting next to Trump, with her nice legs who was constantly twirling her feet in high heels, was the only thing worth watching. I guess Trump has lost his libido to pay attention.

      I’m sure many men out there was only staring at her, and that was the only thing that mattered.

      JS

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • When women started showing their legs in public around the end of WWI, that was the beginning of the end of civilization.

        Yakov

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

      • She’s the only thing worth watching in the video. I think she’s hot.

        JS

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  8. I get the sentiment, and its not a good idea as a general rule and probably at this specific point in history as well, but in defense of the suggestion we’re also navigating a multicultural and civilizational scenario that doesn’t have a historical precendent.

    Can you conceive of a moment where such a thing would be justified? I would offer that it would be time to scrap the project before that occurred, but assuming that does not happen then I could think of a scenario wherein arming specifically trained and better selected teachers might be appropriate (ie: psychologically stable white teachers above a certain IQ).

    For perspective, if 18th or 19th century non-prole white people (gentlemen) were thrust into this scenario, wherein they would be compelled to educate the equivalent of savage populations with access to firearms, I would guess that they would not reject being armed because it was ostensibly prole.

    Mike

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

  9. Rubbish, lion! It works very well in Israel.

    PV van der Byl

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • Israel is prole.

      PerezHBD

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  10. It’s not a good idea, but it is “something”. The purpose of arm the teachers is to shut down the calls for gun control.

    They want to ban guns, we say no, the answer is even more guns.

    It’s just rhetoric.

    Anon

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • Stupid prole rhetoric…

      Magnavox

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Oh numale…

        Mike

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  11. If you want to put an end school shootings, then close all schools and require all parents to home school their children.

    MikeCA

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

  12. “Arming teachers” sounds like a radical type of thing to do. But it should not mean just handing out guns to every teacher willy nilly. Think Israel – they seem to do it with great success.

    And arming/training certain teachers is only one aspect. Lets be brutally frank. This incident would have easily been avoided with a bit of broken windows policing. Instead, the Broward authorities did the exact opposite in order to appease the left – they literally ensured that, because of race politics, this guy was free to plan and execute his killing spree with no interference.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/21/its-too-late-broward-county-school-board-beginning-to-admit-their-mistakes/#comments

    The authorities responsible should be publicly shamed and driven from office – too bad we don’t have stocks anymore.

    It seems the left poison everything they touch and then blame the right for it.

    gda

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

  13. Then, I’´ll wait to read the NewYorker, The Atlantic and The Economist, to allow myself to form any opinion on this matter 😉

    Bruno

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

  14. The underlying cause of this mental illness in the young (and old) is societal/cultural. This stuff did not happen in the 50s.

    We have a feminized/diversified society saturated with stupefying media and pornography all designed to lower the soul and inculcate obedience to our betters. It’s a “Bowling Alone” atomized society of hostile tribes where extended family bonds are non-existent and friendships brief. Young people rot on the vine as they wait, and wait, and WAIT to get educated, get a decent job, and get married and have kids.

    Kids have no identity and live in a cut-throat world and part of them knows it and self-destructs. It may not lead to mass shooting, but as I like to say: it’s not the lone nut, it’s the millions of quiet people who feel the same things.

    fakeemail

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • The bath school massacre happened in 1927. And the Our Lady of Angels fire (1950s) was deliberately set by one of the students. 92 children and 3 nuns died. That fire was the instigation for mandated fire drills in schools.

      toomanyspiders

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • It’s also SSRI medications for people under the age of 25. It seems to produce rage monsters. Yet big pharma doesn’t get bankrupted with fines and no executives go to jail.

      We need to send some of our white collar criminal “entrepreneurs” to jail to remind them that the law applies to them as well.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Next time a thing like this happens, if it turns out the weapon was obtained illegally, track down the seller and charge them with aiding and abetting terrorism. Send them to Florence ADX. Or Gitmo, or wherever the place is that’ll make other illegal gun dealers piss their pants.

        njguy73

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

  15. I once worked for a judge who kept a pistol under his robes. I guess he was prole and dumb.

    Curle

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • Like Roy Moore?

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • So did I, and it’s not all unusual – not since Hatold Haley.

      vipltd

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • A judge and lawyers were shot in Chicago in court in the early 80’s. I think it was during a divorce case.

      ttgy1

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  16. It used to be common for schools to have shooting clubs, Students would regularly bring their rifles to school. They’d even bring them on the bus. Nothing ever happened. But there have been plenty of school shootings since they became “gun free zones”. Do you honestly think someone planning a mass shooting will reconsider because it’s a “gun free zone”?

    I don’t. Because that’s one of the reasons schools are targeted in the first place. Regardless of their motives, the shooters have a video game mentality where their goal is to run up the score with as many kills as possible. It’s a low risk/high reward target because they know there will be a lot of unarmed kids.

    Unless a facility has armed guards or staff, the only thing “gun free zones” accomplish is to ensure that the only person with a gun is the one shooting up the place. And Israelis agree with me. Any Israeli school with more than a 100 students is required to have armed guards and staff. I think certain school staff who pass enhanced psychological screening and training should be allowed access to firearms on campus. And I think knowledge of what staff might be armed (if anyone at all) should be highly restricted. While armed staff may stop a school shooting in progress, knowing that some staff may be armed will help prevent it.

    destructure

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

    • ” Do you honestly think someone planning a mass shooting will reconsider because it’s a “gun free zone”?”

      I honestly think that high school kids packing heat is a really really really bad idea.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • Israel does NOT let teachers carry guns to school. Yes, there’s an armed guard at schools with more than 100 students because of the terrorism threat.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Leon — Both of your comments were deflections. I never said either that students should carry guns to school or that Israeli teachers did. In fact, I didn’t even use the word “teacher” in my comment.

        destructure

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • When I was at H. U., my history teacher, who lived on a settlement, would come to class with a pistol. We all did armed duty at night with university’s Uzis and rifles. Students doing reserve duty could come armed to the campus.

        My Tajik told me that this was Trump’s idea. He thinks it’s a good thing and I basically agree. In his village people who had guns were not afraid of anything and they had no mass shootings.

        Yakov

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  17. But it would be hilarious to round up liberal academia, make them get permits and regularly go to the range. It has the makings of a sitcom.

    toomanyspiders

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

  18. Prole, schmole. Libertarians point out that arming students, or teachers, or gun-free zones, or simplified orders of protection to take weapons in custody of troubled persons can all do well if done correctly and consistently. When I went to school we all had rifles in our desks. The rifles didn’t change, the culture in the public schools did.

    The problem is the far-left has no interest in making things work. According to the news in Florida this AM, far-lefties saw to it that Parkland declared a gun-free zone and THEN developed a policy of not reporting troublemakers. This guy was reported many times but the reports went nowhere. Also what is not being investigated is the bullying in that school by far-left kiddie thugs. No grand jury will be investigating anything. The whole thing is an accident waiting to happen created by the far-left and their right stooges for other agendas.

    In Japan the entire class is armed. See:https://soranews24.com/2012/12/09/a-crazy-man-is-coming-to-school-today-and-hes-going-to-try-to-stab-us-japan-takes-code-red-drills-to-the-extreme%E3%80%90you-me-and-a-tanuki%E3%80%91/ Note the kids are being trained to take on the local MAFIA. These poles they use are something, check out Youtube. Judo classes also help self-defense, conflict resolution, and blowing off steam…Armed does not have to mean guns.

    I’ll believe there is a problem when Yeshiva school teens unaccountably start shooting each other up.

    RE: https://lionoftheblogosphere.wordpress.com/2018/02/22/if-you-think-that-arming-teachers-is-a-good-idea/

    Robert

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

  19. See also: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/30/at-least-7-states-now-have-armed-staff-in-schools

    That’s the far-left for you, attacking Trump and libertarians for suggesting a look at what is already happening and was previously pushed by the left!

    Robert

    February 22, 2018 at EST am

  20. That’s a very leftist post—no argument at all just name-calling, i.e., if you believe in arming teachers you’re a stupid loser.

    It’s kind of funny that, in espousing a leftist viewpoint, Lion has adopted the same bullying, sneering, fact-free style of argumentation of the left. Feels pretty good, doesn’t it? But don’t be seduced by the dark side!

    Fueled

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  21. If you were a teacher, would you really want to be holding a gun when the cops come storming in?
    Cops shoot deaf kids for not obeying orders 20 feet away.

    EzE

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  22. Lion, there are over 1.3 million CCW holders in the state of Florida (as of 2015, it may have increased a bit since). There are also about 20 million residents in that state. That means the CCW density is somewhat over 5%. Simply allowing teachers and other school who hold CCW permits to carry on school grounds without legal penalties would add more than enough uncertainty to any mass shooting events to largely eliminate them. There’s a reason pretty much all such events take place in areas where the population is legally disarmed and the legal security is inadequate.

    Jehu

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • Not all of the permit holders are actually in the state. Florida allows nonresidents to study for and obtain Florida CCW permits without ever having to step foot in the Sunshine State. My local gun range here in New York offers training and testing for nonresident Florida permits. As far as I know Arizona is the only other state with a similar provision.
      Note: not all states recognize Florida permits, New York is among them.

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  23. Somewhat on topic: When i was younger and learning about the liberal and conservative positions on gun control I always found it surprising that conservatives were opposed to it and liberals in favor of it. I would have assumed it to be the other way around. All the liberal talk about how ordinary people can’t be trusted not to use guns irresponsibly sounded more like a socially conservative argument to me than a liberal one. And conservatives, who usually don’t trust human nature much and think that people tend toward weakness, suddenly trusted that the average Joe Schmo would never lose enough self-control to kill someone based on momentary rage.. Of course I realize now that the issue is far more complicated. I learned about why communists always believe the citizenry should be disarmed. And why the founding fathers wanted citizens to be able to protect themselves against a corrupt government. So I support gun rights.

    Although I personally would never own a gun. I come from a family of hotheads. While I doubt anyone of us would have committed a murder, I can easily see several of my relatives saying to someone they’re angry with “You know I have a gun in that drawer over there. You’re taking a very big chance with the way you’re treating me.” So no guns for “Maryk” or her relatives!

    maryk

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • Guns dont kill people, it’s guidos that kill people

      driveallnight

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Still angry with me? I’ll let this comment slide.

        maryk

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • lol nobodys angry at you guida

        driveallnight

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • Steve Sailer says that white liberals are against gun availability because they’re afraid of blacks, but can’t say so. They prohibit guns because they can’t restrict black travel or behavior. Don’t know if I buy it.

      vipltd

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • This is a good point. A lot of times the conservative vs. liberal positions are opposite of what you’d assume.

      GondwanaMan

      February 25, 2018 at EST pm

  24. Gun control is a non stater as long as the USA has open borders with the worst hellholes on the planet.

    People have to protect themselves. The cops wolnt, it’s not their job, and couldn’t even if they wanted to.

    Rotten

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  25. I don’t like idea of arming teachers. It is too uncivilized. Simply have a highly trained school Marshall at every high school. Each would be armed with a handgun and a shot gun that would be locked up but accessible at a moments notice. This could create thousands of jobs for ex police and military, which is right up Trump’s alley.

    B.T.D.T.

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  26. I’m no fan of guns, they freak me out actually, but then again as an urban Canadian, my views just reflect my upbringing. Most Canadians feel the same way, but make an exception for hunters—a sentiment I find despicable. In fact, almost all Canadians view American gun culture and the second amendment with derision. There is zero appreciation here for the vital need many Americans have to protect themselves and their families from those who would do them harm. The reality of course is that those who would do them harm are usually people of colour, but how exactly do you explain that to brain dead liberals and especially liberals who live in prosperous white and Chinese dominated Canadian cities. I understand the need to protect American schools from gun violence, but as long as the US continues its slide towards Brazilianization, the fulsome support for the need to bear arms isn’t going anywhere.

    Roli

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • The irony is that most Americans who own guns live in rural areas and are in no danger whatsoever from people of color, and most white Americans who live in cities don’t own guns.

      Guns are about cultural identity in the US, not protection from actual threats.

      Peter Akuleyev

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • More specifically, cultural identity of rural prole whites.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Gun are what makes America great. My Tajik thinks so too.

        Yakov

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Guns are about cultural identity in the US, not protection from actual threats.

        There are rural populations that call the police on a regular phone number and, if anyone picks up, have to wait 45 minutes for anyone to come. So you’re wrong to say that it’s purely cultural.

        Magnavox

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • There’s no shortage of guns in Tajikistan. If guns make America great than Afghanistan, Congo and Tajikistan must be fantastic.

        Peter Akuleyev

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

      • Lemme spell it out for you. Legal guns in the hands of the law abiding citizens, who have a right to use them in the defense of their lives and property is what makes America great.

        I thought this was very simple, but apparently not.

        Yakov

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

    • You are a sikh, you are supposed to love guns.

      Yakov

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Ha ha, I probably skipped a gene. I had a phone conversation with my dad just yesterday and he accused me of never taking pride in my faith or culture—I couldn’t argue with him, he was right. I’ve never understood the need for tribal affiliations, it’s probably the reason I frequent Lion’s site.

        Roli

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • What do you mean? Your tribe is your family! I mean, we Jews are all descendants of the Patriarchs. I’m supposed to forget about my family and worry about a Norwegian or a Zulu first?

        Kirpan is something to be proud about. If I were a Sikh, I wouldn’t leave home without it.

        Yakov

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Sikhs have a reputation for being wild and over the top and are vastly different from the kind of Indians you find in the US. Unlike US Indians (who’re mainly Hindus), Sikhs are extroverted blue collar types who love sports, alcohol and fighting. A white guy who used to work in the lumber mills around BC once told me that it wasn’t unusual after work hours to see Sikh labourers fighting each other with chainsaws. Sadly, I don’t fit this profile and often get intimidated at the sight of an aggressive store-clerk.

        Roli

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • ‘A white guy who used to work in the lumber mills around BC once told me that it wasn’t unusual after work hours to see Sikh labourers fighting each other with chainsaws.’

        For real or just playing? I mean, what was the outcome of that?

        Yakov

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • It must’ve been for real, Sikhs have a reputation for such stuff. Sikhs were bread in the sixteen hundreds specifically for the purposes of forming a baptized army to fend of Muslim invaders from the north-west of India. Unfortunately there’s not much use for such genetic attributes in present day Canada.

        Roli

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  27. Schools are soft targets and that can not be allowed to continue. Either we arm teachers or we have armed security guards/police on site.

    Otis the Sweaty

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  28. Hickok45 made an interesting proposal on Facebook the other day. He knows about the issue from all angles, being a firearms expert and celebrity in the shooting community, a retired middle school teacher, and a former police officer. He suggested using military veterans to provide armed school security, ideally choosing them from parents of children in the protected schools.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • As a military veteran, I’m not a fan of the idea of arming military veterans to protect schools. Most military go to the range twice a year and don’t have the day to day comfort and familiarity with their own weapon, let alone carrying a weapon with them, to make me comfortable with the idea. Ideally this would work with actual law enforcement, and in Florida we have actual law enforcement officers assigned to schools.

      Obviously it didn’t work in this case. The Police Officer didn’t go inside during the shooting and when informed there would be an investigation, resigned.

      Mike Street Station

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • Because the military (which encompasses a huge variety of different roles) has done such a great job in their overseas adventures.

      Magnavox

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  29. the NRA is prole. to own guns for any purpose other than hunting animals which you eat is prole. and that’s usually prole too.

    there is NO reason for any civilian to have an assault rifle except entertainment. NONE.

    why is there an exception for WMD? why can’t i have my own nuclear bomb?

    the US had a standing army before the 2d amendment was ratified by the last of the 13 states. “a well regulated militia…” the point was NEVER to protect the people from government, but to protect government from a military coup.

    but the same people who love the US military love guns.

    what about switzerland?

    Under the country’s militia system, professional soldiers constitute about 5 percent of the military and the rest are conscripts or volunteers aged 19 to 34.

    that’s two inconsistencies.

    but proles are skilled at doublethink, because they can’t think.//

    lank thompson

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • “to own guns for any purpose other than hunting animals which you eat is prole. and that’s usually prole too”

      Was Teddy Roosevelt a prole? He came from a prominent family and he hunted big game.

      In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when preserved by sportsmen.” -Theodore Roosevelt

      I think many elites in England used to go on safari and fox hunt in England.

      William Cornwallis Harris was one of the first to go on safari.

      From wiki:

      “Harris was one of the more notable of the early Victorian travelers, and his illustrations of the large African fauna were the first to have any claim to accuracy. He hunted on a ruthless scale, even as he wrote with passion about the regions he crossed, and painted the animals he encountered with great attention to detail. He was not an outstanding artist, but his paintings and sketches have great charm and spirit and have considerably enriched natural history art.”

      ttgy1

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • African hunting safaris have become more popular in recent years. While you can’t hunt elephants or rhinos anymore, Cape buffalos more than make up for that – they are huge, very hard to drop, often charge when injured, and best of all are plentiful. Africa also is full of many species of antelopes which can be challenging to hunt, and whose numbers today are the highest in over 100 years.
        Even with the high airfare an African safari can be cheaper than a moose hunt in Alaska or even an elk hunt in the Rocky Mountain states.

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when preserved by sportsmen.

        if he said that then he was prole. he had a moustache.

        what once was not prole may become prole. what once was prole may become not prole. bathing was prole when water was thought to carry disease. the rich wore perfume and bathed once a year in milk. that’s prole.

        lank thompson

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

      • i do favor hunting proles. for fun. not for food.

        lank thompson

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

    • “to own guns for any purpose other than hunting animals which you eat is prole. and that’s usually prole too.”

      Plenty of upper middle class people shoot competitively.

      “there is NO reason for any civilian to have an assault rifle except entertainment. NONE. “

      Very few Americans own assault rifles since they fall under the NFA of 1934. The AR15 is not an assault rifle and is not capable of automatic fire. I realize that you didn’t say it was, but so many make that mistake that I wanted to point it out. The only difference between an AR15 and any other semi-automatic rifle is that it looks like an M16. But it is NOT an M16 and can’t do anything that any other semi-automatic rifle can’t do.

      “the point was NEVER to protect the people from government, but to protect government from a military coup.”

      Every right listed in the Bill of Rights pertains to the individual.

      destructure

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • The full-auto/semiauto distinction is not really meaningful, as the rate of fire through a semiautomatic AR is fast enough that it can accomplish just about anything that full auto can do.
        While there are a number of semiautomatic carbines firing pistol calibers, semiautomatic rifles other than AR’s/AK’s firing rifle calibers are uncommon. With the recent discontinuance of the Remington 7400 the only semiautomatic hunting rifles on the US market today are the Browning BAR and the Benelli R1. Each one holds only four or five rounds, so they’re hardly suitable for “tacticool” use.

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

      • No. An AR15 is not the same as an M16. And it’s not functionally different than most other semi-automatic hunting rifles. One pull. One shot. That’s it.

        Now, I get it. You don’t think that semi-automatic rifles in general and AR pattern rifles in particular should be used for hunting. Well, I prefer bolt and lever action hunting rifles myself. And I’d rather others use them, too. But our preferences don’t really matter. Because other hunters are increasingly using AR’s. And I suspect that trend will continue. That’s why manufacturers are offering fewer traditional semi-automatic hunting rifles. They’re replacing them with AR pattern hunting rifles.

        destructure

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • “That’s why manufacturers are offering fewer traditional semi-automatic hunting rifles. They’re replacing them with AR pattern hunting rifles.”

        Four of the largest US rifle makers do not offer any AR’s: Weatherby, Henry, Browning and Winchester (the last two are under common ownership).

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        February 24, 2018 at EST am

      • One wouldn’t expect Weatherby or Henry to offer ARs. They’re almost exclusively bolt and lever action, respectively. As far as I know, neither of them has ever even offered a semi-automatic rifle. It’s just not their market.

        As for Browning and Winchester. Browning offers the very popular BAR semi-automatic rifle and Winchester began offering a modified version of it ten years ago. If you look at the FNAR it’s obvious that it was restyled to compete with AR’s. It’s speculated that the FNAR was strategically offered by Winchester rather than Browning to reduce the chances of the BAR ending up on an “assault weapons” ban. As you pointed out, they’re both owned by FN which makes the SCAR. The SCAR is in direct competition with the AR. So I’d be very surprised if FN ever offered an AR.

        Regardless, lots of big names offer AR pattern rifles. Colt, Heckler&Koch, Mossberg, Remington, Ruger, Sig Sauer and Smith&Wesson not to mention Armalite, Bushmaster and dozens of little companies I’ve never heard of. There are now companies offering AR’s who once said they had no plans to ever make one. They just became too popular to ignore. There are over 8 million of them.

        destructure

        February 24, 2018 at EST pm

    • The whole idea of prole is ridiculous at this point. I wish Lion would drop it.

      ttgy1

      February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  30. Arm the students with rocks.
    Each student can carry one or two golf ball sized rocks.
    Most people will be calling to God in a corner, but if anyone or any 10 throw rocks that creates an opening for further attack.
    If he comes through a classroom door and 20 rocks come the shooter’s way … great.
    The shooter has no choice but to react to rocks coming at him. It would take years of training not to react to a rock coming at your face.
    For those laughing at this idea, Think how many rocks could hit the Virginia tech shooter as he walks down the aisle shooting folks. It also gives a second or three for any heroes who might rush a flinching shooter as opposed to rushing a guy trying to decide where to put the bullet in you.
    It ain’t prole maybe a bit caveman but not Prole.
    The only problem will be how many kids will be getting hit by rocks, but that is a social problem not a gun problem.

    KnoMad

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  31. Lion, what’s your position on the 2nd Amendment?

    Tom

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

    • It was only attended to give rights to the states.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • The Bill of Rights was written by James Madison in response to calls by states for more protection of INDIVIDUAL liberties. Every single right listed in the Bill of Rights is an individual right.

        destructure

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • Not according to Barron v. Baltimore.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 23, 2018 at EST am

      • It’s in the Bill of Rights though. Wasn’t it included to prevent the federal government from imposing gun control?

        Tom

        February 22, 2018 at EST pm

      • It was included to prevent the federal government from enacting gun controls that would interfere with state militias because the founders were terrified of a large centralized standing army. A large centralized standing army being of course the thing that contemporary right wingers love more than anything else.

        Magnavox

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • Barron vs Baltimore established the precedent that the Bill of Rights protected individuals from the federal government but not the state government. So the FEDERAL government can’t infringe on an INDIVIDUAL’s freedom of speech, freedom religion, etc. But states can still f* individuals good. Fair enough. But that doesn’t change the fact that the Bill of Rights concerns INDIVIDUAL rights. Which was the point being debated.

        Regardless…
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barron_v._Baltimore#Aftermath

        “since the early 20th century, the Supreme Court has used the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which was interpreted to have the same meaning as the Fifth Amendment, to apply most of the Bill of Rights to the states by selective incorporation. Therefore, as to most of the Bill of Rights, Barron and its progeny have been circumvented, if not actually overruled.”

        destructure

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • 20th century Constitutional law also says that the Constitution guarantees the right to abortion!

        Barron v. Baltimore is how the Founders intended the Constitution to work.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • Wow, I had never heard of Barron v. Baltimore but just Googled it. Was that a facetious answer, Lion? The Wikipedia article makes clear that the ruling is the diametric opposite of the “incorporation doctrine” and thus has been totally obviated by the current interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

        Hermes

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • The right to a Grand Jury trial was never incorporated.

        But now the Constitution gives the right to have an abortion!

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • “Barron v. Baltimore is how the Founders intended the Constitution to work.”

        I agree. But SCOTUS has set a precedent in subsequent rulings. And I don’t see them going back on it. I wish they would because the 14th Amendment is a scourge. But that’s not the way it is.

        Regardless, the point being discussed was whether 2A referred to a state militia’s right or an individual’s right. And it clearly refers to an individual’s right. People saying otherwise are either ignorant or dishonest. Probably both.

        destructure

        February 24, 2018 at EST pm

    • I’m not Lion, but people in Russia think it’s great.

      Yakov

      February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  32. Anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea hasn’t met many teachers.

    ScarletNumber

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  33. breivik got his gun legally in norway and his magazines from the US, only because they were cheaper. he could also have bought them in sweden. the two paris massacres were carried out with guns bought in eastern europe. this according to wikipedia. oswald got his gun from italy.

    the gun nuts do have a point that this sort of violence is more common in the US. but blaming it on insanity (as if it came from nowhere) is prole.

    my guess is bird hunters would most complain if self-loading and pump-action guns were banned.

    lank thompson

    February 22, 2018 at EST pm

  34. That’s bad strategery there Lion. If you want people to care about education and pay for it out of pocket, then the best way to achieve this goal without getting flack from bleeding hearts is to arm low paid functionaries of the Public Schools who are guaranteed to NEVER handle them responsibly.

    I’m not sure what 4D Chess is, but that’s effective strategery right there.

    Joshua Sinistar (@Joshua06716)

    February 23, 2018 at EST am

    • The most effective strategy is to get rid of public schools and have people attend Cyber High Schools from home online. You do you lessons and prep there.

      That would end all school shootings, bullying and other problems.

      map

      February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  35. Yes, historically gun control has always been about keeping black people from owning guns. Thus Vermont has no gun control at all and Maryland & DC have the strictest in the nation.

    That comes from the NRA, not Steve Sailer. That’s why they’re the nation’s “oldest civil rights” organization.

    Mercy Vetsel (@MercyVetsel)

    February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  36. What exactly is the 4d chess move here? This is the kind of dumb Republican politics that gets Republicans in trouble. Yes, prole.

    Forbidden Thoughts

    February 23, 2018 at EST pm

  37. “Muh 2nd Amendment” is a cuckservative position. I agree with others: this would be a great bargaining chip for Trump. Offer to totally give away the farm on gun control in exchange for the wall, e-verify, and massive reductions in legal immigration, and let the left look like chumps for a change.

    Hermes

    February 23, 2018 at EST pm

    • “Offer to totally give away the farm on gun control in exchange for the wall, e-verify, and massive reductions in legal immigration, and let the left look like chumps for a change.”

      Smart thinking!

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      February 23, 2018 at EST pm

      • Wow, that’s clueless. Trump wouldn’t make it through the Republican primaries in 2020. The most the gunaphobes could hope for would be another round of the 1994 – 2004 Assault Weapons Ban. Symbolic BS that would infuriate 1/3 of the country, 2/3 of Republicans without even appeasing the Scared Ladies crowd.

        Remember that half the Republicans in Congress are mass shooting survivors themselves who are only alive because an armed woman from the Park Police took out an attacker armed with an assault rifle. Go tell Republican Whip Steve Scalise that you think platitudes and muh gun free zone idiocy is the solution.

        Trump is already trying his best to give away the farm on immigration. DACA is now a joint Obama/Trump program that Trump wants to more than triple. Trump didn’t even negotiate anything in exchange for a year of DACA.

        Mercy Vetsel (@MercyVetsel)

        February 24, 2018 at EST am

      • Well, then 1/3 of the country and 2/3 of Republicans are idiots. These people who think they’re such cowboys and that if there’s a mass shooting one of them is going to rush in like Bruce Willis in Die Hard, yelling “yippee ki-yay, motherf**kers!” and save the day with their guns is ridiculous. When has anything like that ever happened? And by “give away the farm” I don’t mean totally ban guns; there are very few people who actually advocate that and it’s far from a mainstream Democrat position. I mean give them their longer waiting periods, more intensive background checks, limits on how much ammo you can buy at once, gun serial number registration, requirement to obtain a gun license that involves a safety course, whatever. The notion that those things must be resisted because they’re inexorably going to lead to a total gun ban is what Lion calls a “dumb right-wing talking point” when he’s advocating socialism.

        Hermes

        February 24, 2018 at EST pm

      • National gun registration will never happen in America. Never. There would be civil war first.

        Andrew E.

        February 24, 2018 at EST pm

      • National gun registration will never happen in America. Never. There would be civil war first.

        Don’t make me laugh. Who is going to fight a civil war, the gun nuts taking up their arms against the evil oppressive feddle gummint? For the past 50 years, the government has been committing one egregious violation of the original constitution and of what were conservative principles at the time after another: striking down the abortion laws of all 50 states, banning religion from public life, flooding the country with radically incompatible nonwhite aliens, preferentially giving contracts and grants to businesses owned by women and nonwhites, passing laws mandating equal participation in sports by sex that result in colleges having to shut down men’s sports teams, mandating that everyone buy health insurance, finding a right to same-sex marriage in the Constitution, and more. All “conservatives” have ever done is roll over and groan. The idea that the next outrage, whether it’s gun registration or the government taking “trans” children away from their non-“trans”-supportive parents, is going to provoke an armed rebellion is a pipe dream.

        Hermes

        February 25, 2018 at EST am

      • Um, excuse me but Heritage America just withstood the most massive and all-consuming gaslighting campaign in world history to elect the most improbable political candidate one could imagine. If things are as you say, Trump would never have won. So you are wrong, full stop. You don’t understand white America if you think “giving the farm away on gun control” is some kind of winning move politically for the white party. Try again.

        Andrew E.

        February 25, 2018 at EST pm

  38. Not sure how my original post got lost, but it’s not a class issue. It’s urban vs. rural. Jersey proles are just as anti-gun as my town where 98% of the town would lynch someone for not recycling but only 60% say stupid things like “more guns are not the answer”.

    Go to a upper middle class or even upper class town in a more rural area and everyone has guns and therefore form their information on guns first hand or from the NRA rather than Lion’s Hollywood+NYT view. Is Vermont prole? Victor Davis Hanson, the author of Mexifornia?

    Mercy Vetsel (@MercyVetsel)

    February 24, 2018 at EST pm

  39. Even though I’m a pro-gun person, there’s enough crazy people out there to make me question my position. For instance, check out Jonathan Martin, the former offensive lineman who claims he was bullied out of the NFL:

    GondwanaMan

    February 25, 2018 at EST pm


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