Lion of the Blogosphere

Intelligence and genes

There’s a study publixhed in Molecular Psychiatry.

The only major newspaper to write an article about it is The Telegraph and their paywall prevents me from reading what they have to say about it.

Currently, genetic testing can only reveals 7% of intelligence differences between people but I’m sure as research and methods in genetic sequencing and computer analysis improve, that will eventually become a much higher percent. And then we will also finally have proof that blacks are less intelligent than whites because of genes, and not discrimination or poverty.

A long time ago, when I said that intelligence was genetic, I was mocked by science deniers who would say “show me these ‘genes’,” putting “genes” in scare-quotes. Well now modern science has found a large number of genes associated with intelligence. But deniers will continue to deny.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

Posted in Biology

83 Responses

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  1. “And then we will also finally have proof that blacks are less intelligent than whites because of genes, and not discrimination or poverty.”

    The evidence is already overwhelming so I doubt that finding the genes will make a difference.

    fortaleza84

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Yeah, the response would just be to declare genetics a “discredited racist pseudoscience” and eliminate it from all government and university-sponsored research. (Except in China).

      If the evidence somehow ever became so overwhelming that leftists could no longer deny it, they’d just shift to claiming it’s because racist white slaveowners genocided all the Wakandan kangs and rocket surgeons.

      snorlaxwp

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • What I think will happen is that Leftists will fall back on “race is just a social construct.” I have debated this issue many times with them. I always point out that all categories — not just race — are social constructs. And that even if race is just a social construct, it does not logically follow that racial differences in intelligence can’t have a genetic component.

        This argument is 100% logically sound, and yet Leftists won’t accept it.

        Also, the genetic influence on intelligence surely won’t be a few simple genes as with blood type. It will be complicated and messy and the result of interactions of 50 or 100 different genes. So there will be plenty of opportunities for Leftists to pick holes in the results and pretend that they have debunked the entire theory.

        No, the only way the Egalitarian Hypothesis will die is when Leftists die off, out-bred by people who don’t share their ridiculous beliefs.

        fortaleza84

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

    • It won’t change misguided policy, especially given how much money and social status is at stake

      grey enlightenment

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

  2. I had an argument with a blue county SWPL about intelligence that tracked your experience. So I changed course, and asked him how many people he knew who generally shared his view on genes/intelligence/race. He said 50, for sake of argument. Then I asked him how many of those had a black person managing their money, or tutoring their kid, or remodeling their kitchen or bathroom. He stalked off without answering.

    explainer 21

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I wonder whether the company that created the bridge that just collapsed in Miami was a minority set aside.

      gothamette

      March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • Wow, thanks for finding that out, Mike. I thought the info would be censored.

        This is a perfect example of one of Larry Auster’s laws, see my comment above.

        Auster never tired of pointing out that minorities who are first past the post are virtually always outliers in two ways. One, they are exceptional by definition, and two, they must adhere to the existing culture.

        Affirmative action destroys the first, and when the presence of “minorities” becomes routine, their needs become incessant, and they ruin the culture. Thus when there are more than a few blacks in an organization it becomes sloppy and ebonified, and when there are women it becomes a huge nursery.

        They are trying to make the New York City Ballet “equal opportunity,” run by women and many more blacks. Either will destroy the company. Together – they will obliterate it, and quickly.

        gothamette

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  3. The “genes” at this point are really more a fictitious statistical construct than anything concrete and as some other commentor on here once said, it the statistical techniques will only have real validity if they’re able to genetically engineer mice and do ceteris paribus tests.

    But yeah, you may end up being proved right or you may end up being proved wrong. It doesn’t make you look very good that the latter seems so utterly inconceivable to you.

    Magnavox

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Don’t make me laugh now. Blacks have the smallest brain size and the largest sexual organ of all the races. What’s fictitious about this?

      Yakov

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Maybe the smaller brains aren’t genetic or maybe they can have high iqs even with smaller brains like women do.

        Magnavox

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • Don’t make me laugh now. Apples and pineapples. Women have different brains from men, so you gotta compare a female brain to a female brain, just like you gotta compare a male sexual organ to a male sexual organ. This is very simple.

        Yakov

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • But your whole point is that blacks have different brains from whites.

        Magnavox

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • My whole point is that blacks have different brains from whites and obviously, even though I hadn’t mentioned it, women have different brains from men. It’s really black and white and very simple.

        Yakov

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

    • How did humans evolve intelligence if it’s not genetic? Do you deny that humans are smarter than other animals, too?

      destructure

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • You really have your head up HBDs ass if you equate saying black people may not be less innately intelligent than whites with denying evolution.

        Magnavox

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • No need to get so defensive. I simply asked a couple of questions… which you failed to answer.

        destructure

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • It’s an insultingly stupid question. Nothing I’ve said here or anywhere else has even implied I don’t think it’s possible for genetic differences to have evolved. HBD idiots think that this means that those differeneces definitely have evolved and that the genes favor the groups who currently have higher iqs.

        Magnavox

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • HBD denialists believe that intelligence stopped evolving after whites and blacks separated 50,000 years ago.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “The “genes” at this point are really more a fictitious statistical construct than anything concrete”

      You could have said the same thing about the genetics of height a year ago, but you can’t anymore:

      http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2017/09/accurate-genomic-prediction-of-human.html

      Embryo selection for height, intelligence, and other traits will happen before genetic engineering and the Chinese (or whoever) are likely to create a bunch of high-IQ kids in the short term through embryo selection.

      “It doesn’t make you look very good that the latter seems so utterly inconceivable to you.”

      That’s unfair. At least when it comes to the United States, there’s little reason to believe group differences in IQ aren’t largely innate in populations who’ve been here for a long time.

      Horace Pinker

      March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • If it gets proven then it’s proven. I’m not the deluded ideologue here.

        You can easily make high IQ kids without knowing anything about which genes are responsible just by breeding two people with high iqs from high iq families.

        There are all sorts of sudden shifts in various groups IQs in history so your last paragraph seems totally unwarranted.

        Magnavox

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • And I guess you didn’t read the link you gave beause that’s just another statistical study, not anything remotely like the genetically engineered mouse example I gave.

        Magnavox

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “And I guess you didn’t read the link you gave beause that’s just another statistical study, not anything remotely like the genetically engineered mouse example I gave.”

        My point was that genes can currently be used to predict height within a few centimeters, so we’re already at the point where we should be able to select embryos for height. I’m no expert on genetics, but it’s my understanding that until this happened, genetic studies on height, or whatever, were correlational and useless when it comes to making predictions. That has changed and the genetics of height are no longer “a fictitious statistical construct.”

        “There are all sorts of sudden shifts in various groups IQs in history so your last paragraph seems totally unwarranted.”

        Fine, I’ll be more specific. There’s little reason to believe that the black-white IQ gap in the United States isn’t largely innate and that’s the thing that really upsets people. Is that seriously something you’d argue against? If so, why?

        I’m Irish, by the way. Or at least I have an Irish last name, but I have a 100% Irish wife and we have a kid. I’m well aware the mystery surrounding the rise in Irish IQ, but I’d still bet that the Irish are, on average, innately less intelligent than Germans or Ukrainians. I’m fine with my kid being part of a low-IQ European population. He could read by age 3 and mostly taught himself. I realize my position is becoming antiquated and unfashionable, but I wish we would go back to viewing people as individuals rather than members of groups. Group differences shouldn’t matter that much considering how much intelligence, and everything else, overlaps.

        Horace Pinker

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • My point was that genes can currently be used to predict height within a few centimeters, so we’re already at the point where we should be able to select embryos for height

        My point is that we can say we have the ability to select genes for height or intelligence when we actually do it not when there are statistical studies that seem to indicate we can. Stephen Hsu is a theoretical physicist, by the way.

        I realize my position is becoming antiquated and unfashionable, but I wish we would go back to viewing people as individuals rather than members of groups. Group differences shouldn’t matter that much considering how much intelligence, and everything else, overlaps.

        I completely disagree for reasons I won’t go into.

        Magnavox

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

  4. They were trolling you. If it is in tales that pass from generation to generation, it is common knowledge. Nobody argues that intelligence is not genetic/inherited. Ideology has it that way because you cannot make ideology out of the ideas that are true. I can assure you that it will still be denied until the current ideology is replaced by a different ideology.

    My Two Cents

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

  5. This is p-hacking, not science. Statistics is not science.

    I will believe genomics finally has something useful to show for itself after thirty years and billions in funding when they can reliably and repeatedly genetically engineer a smarter cat, or something like that.

    bobbybobbob

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • They’ve already done it.

      The smart mouse with the half-human brain.
      https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26639-the-smart-mouse-with-the-half-human-brain/

      destructure

      March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • That’s not what he’s talking about. They would have to perform the same kinds of statistics analyses in this article on mice to isolate genes supposedly responsible for mouse intelligence and then engineer mice with those genes to test the statistics in the real world. Your article is about from mouse partly human franken brain.

        Magnavox

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  6. Has a “guido” gene been discovered yet?

    maryk

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

  7. Lion, you often claim to be more intelligent than other people but your genes didn’t give you the good sense not to go to a crap law school and didn’t stop you from becoming a loser in life, so I am not sure what they’re good for.

    August

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I agree that it’s better to have rich and successful parents. Plus being good looking and athletic.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I was not talking about LoB. LoB is OK. I was talking about August.

        My Two Cents

        March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • It’s also better to have pale skin.

        Many intelligent blacks face discrimination and can’t get jobs because of bias, which you are spreading on this website by making stupid remarks like “blacks are less intelligent than whites because of genes.” Your posts contain zero nuance. Even Charles Murray takes care to point out that he is speaking of averages.

        August

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • It’s better to be smart self-made man. The American way.

        Yakov

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • @August
        ‘Even Charles Murray takes care to point out that he is speaking of averages.’

        Mate, that’s what everybody here is speaking about also. This should be pretty obvious. You must be new to this blog.

        Yakov

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • “Many intelligent blacks face discrimination and can’t get jobs because of bias”

        Every black person I knew in college and grad school was deluged with job offers. If by “intelligent,” you mean IQ > 120, I am very skeptical of your claim. Do you have any evidence to support it?

        “Even Charles Murray takes care to point out that he is speaking of averages.”

        That’s silly, any reasonable person understands that generalizations are referring to averages. Nobody freaks out when faced with the observation that “men are taller than women” or “People in New Jersey are wealthier than people in Alabama.” Its only when the generalization is blasphemous that people start getting unreasonably picky with language.

        fortaleza84

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • Yakov — You’ve never been self made, other than your HVAC side hustle. So how do you know being a self made man is better?

        Most people can’t hack it as an entrepreneur, because the USA gov’t is all about regulations and litigation. Many people freak out when it comes to their taxes and gov’t paperwork. In America, the chances of being sued by your clients is very high, and the USA gov’t wants this kind of litigiousness, where it create legal jobs.

        intelligent blacks exist, but America was set up to make it hard for other people to succeed who are generally smarter than blacks, so they will have a much harder time due to their lower intelligence, inherent of their group as a whole.

        JS

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • “Most people can’t hack it as an entrepreneur”

        Most entrepreneurs start out by learning the ropes by working for someone else first. No one (except Bill Gates and exceptions like that) goes from high school to rich businessman with nothing in between.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • @JS

        Who is talking about me or exclusively about material wealth here? Are you prole? I thought you were a French philosopher and an effete who can follow an abstract discussion?

        Since you ask, I’m intellectually self-made,

        Yakov

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • “That’s silly, any reasonable person understands that generalizations are referring to averages. Nobody freaks out when faced with the observation that “men are taller than women””

        It’s so hard to keep up nowadays…

        https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03/14/professor-points-men-taller-women-average-sjws-storm-angrily/

        Mike Street Station

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • Why is there a change of discussion with you? You are about prole pursuits, and chasing money for its own sake is prole.

        JS

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

      • @JS

        My interests are not limited to prole, obviously. Ideologically I’m moving towards fascism and the idea that every class in society has its place and that society needs to function in a harmonious corporate state united by a national idea, rather than a dog eats dog world torn by class, religious and national conflicts and animosity. The corporate state should be kept to the minimum and be as lean as possible.

        Yakov

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • When controlling for IQ, black women make about 5% more than white women. So anti-black discrimination can’t be that bad…

        GondwanaMan

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • When controlling for IQ, black women make about 5% more than white women. So anti-black discrimination can’t be that bad…

        Citation needed

        Is this income or wages? If it’s the former it may merely reflect the fact black women work more (controlling for IQ) because they can’t rely on a rich white husband

        pumpkinperson

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Poor argument. Being intelligent does not mean knowing everything. It is still better being intelligent than having rich parents.

      My Two Cents

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Uncalled for, Lion is one of the most perceptive commentators out there

      biffinator

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Not when it comes to Jews or religion.

        Yakov

        March 18, 2018 at EDT am

    • IQ test measure IQ, it is a predictor for certain things but it doesn’t necessarily predict getting to the top 1% which is within a statistical margin of error, it does predict better getting into a certain bracket of society if you look at 10% increments.

      Hashed

      March 18, 2018 at EDT am

    • lion is not a loser. he probably is in the top tenth percentile of individual US income assuming me makes over 90k. He’s a good writer, has a nice sense of humor and appreciates art, film and literature. jeesh. go gnaw on someone else’s ankles.

      toomanymice

      March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Thank you 🙂

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Most importantly Lion is also a mensch, but he is definitely a loser. Oddly enough, it’s rare, but one can be both.

        And he doesn’t make 90k, which is a joke, he makes $90 an hour, which is semi-decent.

        Yakov

        March 19, 2018 at EDT am

      • If 90$/hr is “semi-decent”, I never wanna hang out with the posters here for I will probably be there just for shining their shoes or changing oil of their cars. I would kill to make 200k right now. 🙂

        mpt

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  8. Indeed, think about this quote from very high-IQ Thomas Sowell: “The older I get, the more I realize that arguing on the basis of facts and logic only gets you labeled as someone who is out of step with the times, if not lacking in compassion.” So even when scientists manage to identify genes that account for 20% or even 90% of IQ variance, the typical Huffington Post reader will remain unconvinced, and will probably even start saying that the fact that certain ethnic groups have low-IQ DNA actually *proves* that they are victims of discrimination, and that discrimination is probably what caused them to have that low-IQ DNA in the first place. I fear this battle will never be won, at least not in our lifetimes.

    IQdefeatist

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “So even when scientists manage to identify genes that account for 20% or even 90% of IQ variance, the typical Huffington Post reader will remain unconvinced, and will probably even start saying that the fact that certain ethnic groups have low-IQ DNA actually *proves* that they are victims of discrimination, and that discrimination is probably what caused them to have that low-IQ DNA in the first place.”

      Lysenkoism lives on!

      Oswald Spengler

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

  9. Must be pretty depressing work as a scientist to confirm obvious things. I guess they get paid in any case.

    onetwothree

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • They don’t even confirm obvious things. Dog and horse and cattle breeders know more. To my knowledge the experts involved in animal and plant breeding have found zero use for genomics scientists. If this stuff was actually useful, the agriculture industry would be all over it. That simply hasn’t happened. It’s even been irrelevant in grain breeding, where you’d think it might produce some big wins. Nope, the people developing corn and wheat strains don’t use this genomics stuff much.

      bobbybobbob

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Round-up (glysophate) resistant grains that are genetically engineered are the main food crops in America.

        cesqy

        March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Congrats, you found the one and only example. And it hasn’t even worked out usefully. The round-up-ready crops are increasingly useless, a mere 20 years after introduction.

        bobbybobbob

        March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

  10. Even in the face of hard scientific data, convlusively proving racial intelligence differences exist, HBD deniers will simply pivot a degree or two and insist you’re still a knuckle dragging bigot. In some ways we haven’t really advanced all that much since the Holy Roman Empire.

    Roli

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • HBD is no doubt meaningful, and a particular culture is an output of a specific group along the lines of HBD.

      bad culture can make troublemakers even worse.

      Anglophone Whites tend to be cruder than non-anglophone Western Europeans. Why is that?

      Could it be that the bulk of Whites in America are descendants of people originating from the British Isles, the worse of the bunch, deemed savages by the Romans?

      Frenchmen, Spaniards and Italians might be arrogant, but Anglos come across as degenerate.

      American blacks who live among Whites are worse by far, behavior-wise, if you compare them to Francophone blacks who assimilate French values.

      JS

      March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Ah yes the wonderful francophone blacks who are the delight of every Parisian banlieu.

        Mike R

        March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

      • JS makes everything about language so he can claim to be “spanish”. Take a DNA test and we’ll see how “spanish” you are. We’ll see how african you are, too. You’re mad that people won’t pretend you’re not.

        destructure

        March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  11. When apartheid ended and blacks were given the vote in South Africa in the early nineties, all manners of experts (from economists to sociologists to political analysts) were on TV, cheerily telling us how emancipated blacks were going to make the new South Africa a substantially wealthier and more democratic country. Try holding any of those “experts” responsible for the mess SA is today and see how far you get.

    Roli

    March 17, 2018 at EDT pm

    • It’s not a mess compared to the apartheid era. The country has seen a steady rise in standard of living. That may be in the process of changing with white land seizure but HBD people have made all sorts of wrong predictions like that in the past because they’re just aching for the country to collapse.

      Magnavox

      March 18, 2018 at EDT am

  12. I guess that even when IQ is quite similar as between asians and whites – some IQ genes that exist in one group are lacking in the other. It is so since the evolutionary history is different and different genes can make you smarter.

    תמריץ

    March 18, 2018 at EDT am

    • I read a peer reviewed study several years ago that found exactly that. Even more, they found that certain genes which increased the IQ of whites didn’t have the same affect in asians and vice versa. The genes had different affects in different populations because genes interact as part of co-evolved gene complexes.

      destructure

      March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  13. In Gattaca, they didn’t imagine that individuals IQ would be always available to all. It could even determine the places where one could go or not .

    Bruno

    March 18, 2018 at EDT am

  14. They didn’t find any “genes”. Genes don’t cause behavior. 7 percent is nothing to ride home about. Only in ‘IQ research’ do you see people be happy about such a low number.

    RaceRealist

    March 18, 2018 at EDT am

  15. “And then we will also finally have proof that blacks are less intelligent than whites because of genes, and not discrimination or poverty.”

    Maybe. If the genes that cause intelligence in Europeans are different from those that cause intelligence in Africans, you won’t be able to say that those found in Europeans are less common in Africans, therefore Africans are genetically less intelligent. Greg Cochran has written about this:

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/everything-is-different-but-the-same/

    The method of estimating group differences by looking at the frequency of intelligence-causing SNPs has been done, and aligned quite well with phenotypic IQs:

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/genetics-of-racial-differences-in-intelligence-updated/

    Alexander Turok

    March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  16. JS I would like to meet and speak with Yakov way more than yourself, not that I wouldn’t want to speak with you as well. So if either of you ever visit Seattle I would be glad meet with you and have a chat.

    Oden's Raven

    March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Possible, do you you come to NYC?

      Yakov

      March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  17. Interesting that better myelination is a marker for higher intelligence. Does this mean smarter people are simply thinking faster? If so why do autistic and schizophrenic people often retain high IQ despite an impaired myelin sheath? Maybe loss of myelin impairs processing but not memory (IQ tests are in large part simply memory tests).

    The study did not touch on epigenetic events, unless I missed something.

    toomanymice

    March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  18. Well now modern science has found a large number of genes associated with intelligence.

    no such thing has happened. “many genes of small effect” and HBD are the same as anthropogenic global warming, 1% fact 99% bullshit.

    notice lion makes the argument to authority. he even emphasizes it with “modern”.

    psychology and climate science are both pseudo sciences.

    BGI volunteer

    March 18, 2018 at EDT pm

  19. […] Lion of the Blogosphere writes: […]


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