Lion of the Blogosphere

Abs and Instagram

Jay Fink writes in a comment:

In my lifetime I have seen society try to sexualize men. Compared to when I was growing up there is much more emphasis on men being muscular, having six pack abs etc. Probably more men are insecure about their appearance now than ever before. Yet despite all this most people really don’t care about men on a visual level.

Instagram is proof of this. There is so much more interest in looking at pictures of women than men. Even women like to admire other women visually. There is not a large market for looking at men’s pictures outside the gay community. This is the natural order of things and I like it.

I never even heard of “abs” until the early 2000s. There were bodybuilders in the 1970s of course. I remember the TV series The Incredible Hulk, in which the Hulk was played by bodybuilder Lou Ferrigno. The Hulk had very big muscles, but his abs were less ripped than a typical modern-day male model. No one cared about abs in the 1970s.

Now, regarding why women look at Instagram feeds of other women, it’s not a lesbian thing, at least I don’t think so. I think that women look to other women as role models for how to stay fit, where to travel, how to dress, how to waste their money, etc. Women prefer to follow pretty women not because of sexual attraction, but they sense that the pretty women have higher status and are more worthy of emulating.

However, do people care about men on a visual level? The mainstream media seems to have trained us to care. There’s no doubt that a good looking man with “ripped abs” is going to have an easier time getting female followers on Instagram than his less good looking brothers. And the same guy will get a lot more attention from women (in real life as well as on social media) than a genius computer programmer who has nothing special going on in the looks department.

* * *

I forgot to mention Captain Kirk played by William Shatner in the late 1960s. Shatner was considered to have such a sexy body that they often made him remove his shirt to show it off, but he had absolutely no visible abs.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

March 19, 2018 at EDT am

109 Responses

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  1. Young straight guys would be worried about getting too much attention from gay men, and people then assuming they’re gay.

    There is no taboo against teenage girls lustily crushing on each others’ cheesecake pics, but straight guys are much more squeamish about giving same-sex looks compliments.

    Fiddlesticks

    March 19, 2018 at EDT am

    • Yes, the Instagram account I’d LEAST want to follow is one of a good looking guy showing off his abs and muscles.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 19, 2018 at EDT am

      • Why does a high IQ guy follow other guys on Instagram unless he’s gay?

        JS

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Where, in cyberspace, does one go to in order to find a visual model of healthy racist perpetuation?

        thordaddy

        March 20, 2018 at EDT am

  2. Women look at women to check out the competition. And they are more harsh toward women than men are.

    Joe

    March 19, 2018 at EDT am

  3. Now, regarding why women look at Instagram feeds of other women, it’s not a lesbian thing, at least I don’t think so.

    In a lot of cases it is a lesbian thing, within the context of bisexuality. Almost 25% of young white women report having had a same-sex encounter, but almost all them have also slept with men. Non-straight women are far more likely to identify as bi, while non-straight men are more likely to identify as exclusively gay.

    Many young women, and more so in today’s solipsistic age, are obviously turned on by each other’s T&A. And the more that the influential and popular ones proclaim it on social media with their “fire hydrant”/”R.I.P. my shorts”/”lady boner” memes and the like, the more they encourage their peers to do so as well.

    https://www.sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-3/november/SocSci_v3_951to970.pdf

    Fiddlesticks

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Regardless of gender, bisexuals always almost always end up with dudes.

      Vince

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Females are generally more tolerable of “radical sexual autonomy.” Males are just more radical in the expression of the phenomenon.

      thordaddy

      March 20, 2018 at EDT am

      • The entire social media sphere caters to the experience of (R)adical (A)utonomy. Narcissists desire a (R)adical (A)utonomous experience.

        The existence of this medium leads us to an egg or a chicken 1st discourse.

        Does social media enable (R)(A) or (R)(A) defines the social media sphere?

        JS

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

      • It best to conceive a “symbiotic regression” between the “social media” is the radically autonomous. Each radical step begets a next radical step. This r/evolution is a “vicious cycle” of self-creation/self-annihilation. And because a self-creation is not autonomous, ie., not changing, self-annihilation is the primary driver. Ergo, the r/evolution of the para-sight is perpetuating self-annihilation. From this perspective “social media” is “radical autonomy.” “Social media” is perpetually self-annihilating at some inevitable point to become anti-social media. In this “collapse” another temporarily dominate medium may arise?

        thordaddy

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

    • There is no such thing as bisexual. A “bisexual” woman is straight. A “bisexual” man is gay.

      ScarletNumber

      March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

  4. Spy Magazine had a spoof of “Men’s Health” many years ago that went like this:

    “Blood trickling from your nose or ears could be a sign of an internal illness. But what if it’s your abs?!?! Better do 100 crunches to be safe.”

    SWPL2

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  5. “Abs” didn’t used to be so much of a thing because steroids weren’t so ubiquitous. Without anabolic drugs it’s extremely difficult for most people to diet down to 10% body fat and at the same time remain noticeably muscular. Now any gym you walk into there will be a few guys obviously using some juice, and it’s the norm in hollywood and pro-sports. ‘Roids became a thing that even regular joes were doing in the 90s, and it’s only increased since then.

    Other than this particular pharmaceutical driven aspect, I really doubt much has changed with regard to cultural emphasis on men’s appearance.

    bobbybobbob

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • > do people care about men on a visual level?

      Yes, very much so, and that has always been the case. I think the main thing is a man posing for instagram selfies would attract heaps of derision. It’s a very effete thing to do, to preen yourself for selfies.

      Why young women don’t catch more flack for it, I don’t know. But a young man doing that would never hear the end of it from friends and family. A lot of people would assume he’s gay. None of this means that the appearance of a man “matters” less than that of a woman.

      bobbybobbob

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • >Yet despite all this most people really don’t care about men on a visual level.

        This is the biggest lie I ever heard. I agree with what bbb said: it’s of the utmost importance for men to be good-looking, but doing something that’s not solely based on looks for a living.

        daddyfrank

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I think it’s steroids and an increased understanding of things like training and nutrition. I honestly don’t know what is and isn’t possible without steroids but even people on them are using exercises, machines, supplements, and a conceptual understanding of muscle development that didnt exist until recently.

      Magnavox

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Don’t be fooled… Those at the top of the turd pile want to have total control over the PEDs.

        The roid pill is another “make tricks” amounting to a self-tap out.

        Secularly-squeaking, there is no such thing as cheating.

        Choose your PEDs and your regiment of consumption wisely or retire from this particular domain.

        Lending credence to the zeitgeist control of PEDs is yes-menion.

        thordaddy

        March 20, 2018 at EDT am

  6. Women are prettier than men. Both sexes like to look at them, whether or not there is a sexual attraction. Even gay men like to look at women.
    Women are prettier because they look more like children, and nature designed children to be pretty (“cute”) so the human race can continue, even when the children are screaming their heads off.
    Women try to make themselves look even more childlike. They lighten their hair (Caucasian children have noticeably lighter hair than adults.) They lengthen their eyelashes. They make themselves as hairless as possible.

    amused observer

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  7. Out of shape men are disgusting. Exercise should be made mandatory.

    Yakov

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • In Soviet Russia, abs crunch YOU!

      Fiddlesticks

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Yes!

        Joe

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • When I was a kid they used to have morning cake then I spent on the radio. Was very nice. I even had a radio exactly like the one in the picture. USSR had some good things, you know.

        Yakov

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Morning callisthenics.

        Yakov

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Actually overweight women are what’s really unatttractive and since women are much more valued for their beauty than men, it is downright inexcusable for women, especially young women, to be overweight or obese.

      Yet when I see corporate workers, most men are a healthy weight while maybe most women are overweight, especially past a certain age.

      Johnbeck

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Women are somewhat more likely than men to be obese but not by a significant margin.

        Read here for some interesting obesity statistics:

        https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6650a1.htm

        the graphs at the bottom are fascinating. Wealth has an inverse effect on the genders (wealthier women are thinner, wealthier men are fatter) but education has a somewhat equivalent effect between genders (both college educated men and women are thinner than their non-4-year degree counterparts).

        toomanymice

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Women don’t need to perform any concerted effort to look attractive in their prime years, they just need to stay slim, relatively speaking. That means reasonably controlling your diet. For a man to reach the sort of physique that’s ubiquitous now in Hollywood requires years of concerted effort in the gym targeting every muscle group, meticulous meal planning and often steroids where nature falls short.

        Panther of the Blogocube

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I don’t think obesity is that great a proxy. With legit obesity we’re mostly talking about lumpen and other dysfunctional people. Among normal middle class people with decent jobs the women are more likely to be fat. A lot of the men will be carrying around maybe ten extra pounds of fat, but the much smaller women will be carrying around ten or more extra pounds.

        bobbybobbob

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Obesity is a significantly bigger problem among women than men, a fact that the official statistics don’t really capture.

        Most importantly, the obesity and overweight cutoffs are the same for men and women (BMI 30.0 and 25.0) even though a healthy man will have a higher BMI than a healthy woman. Because muscle weighs more than fat.

        Another problem is that many studies rely on self reporting and women are more likely to lie about their weights.

        Ultimately, our society is intensely gynocentric and since obesity is seen by many as a moral failing, there is strong incentive to obscure the fact that obesity is more common among women.

        fortaleza84

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • fort, I think that’s a stretch. While muscle mass will skew BMI to some degree in men the fact remains that obesity rates are staggeringly high in both sexes. And men and women have roughly equivalent rates of type 2 diagnoses. Of course, diabetes is not always weight related but it usually is.

        toomanymice

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “when I see corporate workers, most men are a healthy weight while maybe most women are overweight”

        Most corporate men are skinnyfat – weak arms and legs, visible gut, and needless to say, no abs.

        Tarl

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Most corporate men are skinnyfat – weak arms and legs, visible gut, and needless to say, no abs.”

        What do you expect middle-aged men who spend 8+ hours a day sitting in front of a computer monitor to look like?

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Agree. I’m one of those men, I understand it perfectly. I have to work hard, and consistently, in the gym in order to avoid being skinnyfat.

        Tarl

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • People who work far longer and harder hours in Seoul and Tokyo look much better than Americans who work relatively cushy jobs. The difference is Americans don’t walk anywhere and gorge on cheaper high calorie food. The Tokyo counterpart to the American office drone walks at least a mile a day and climbs some over-pass stairs and stands on a train for 40 minutes. The fat American flops in and out of a car, and has much cheaper food at hand 24/7, and so is obese.

        The trick to effortlessly remaining lean is to make walking or bicycling a necessary part of your daily conveyance. If you drive everywhere, weight will always be a struggle.

        bobbybobbob

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • toomanymice, the diabetes evidence seems to support my argument.

        Check out Figure 3 in this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK278973/

        In each BMI range, women are at significantly higher risk of diabetes than men. For example, in the BMI range of 25-27, men’s risk of diabetes is 3-4 percent while women in that BMI range have a risk which is close to 10 percent. Probably part of the reason for this is that a woman in this BMI range is almost certainly overweight whereas for a man it is more iffy and in fact he would not have been considered overweight under the old cutoff of 27.5 for men.

        To be sure, obesity is a big problem among both sexes, but it’s significantly worse among women.

        fortaleza84

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Men used to really let themselves go, 1950s-60s, hiding their big guts in business suits. That was supposed to be ok, only the women were supposed to stay fit.

      But a fat soft pallid male body is just as disgusting.

      Mrs Stitch

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  8. Shatner wasn’t the only older actor who had non-buffed physique. For instance, look at Charlton Heston in the original Planet of the Apes. He’s wearing a loincloth thoroughout most of the movie and while he’s not fat by any means, he isn’t jacked like contemporary action movie stars.

    Oswald Spengler

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Shatner was only 35-37 during the run of the original Star Trek.

      Hermes

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Another is Johnny Weissmuller, the original Tarzan. Although an Olympic athlete whose body was the main reason he was cast in the role, by modern standards he’s just a guy.

      Richard

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwix4szP9_nZAhUlS48KHQeTAeAQjRx6BAgAEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fspotmebro.com%2Fsean-connery-bb-to-bond%2F&psig=AOvVaw0hOhxenw3Op2hQt1xkt44b&ust=1521602084535876

      Sean Connery, pre-fame, was a bodybuilder and trained with a former British army instructor for the 1953 Mr Universe contest where he placed third. Yet he looks entirely ‘normal’ for a man who was doing physical work at the time – bricklayer, coffin polisher.

      The current admiration for bulldozer strength and outsize musculature is silly and destructive. In the actual Bond books the hero is often outmatched physically but wins through by pluck, determination and intelligence. A much better model I think.

      Eli Jenkins

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Man, those 1953 “Mr Universe” photos are really unimpressive. Very obvious those guys weren’t using roids. You can see better than that at any suburban pool these days.

        Tarl

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Yeah, it makes you wonder just how common juicing is. Obviously it’s pretty common among people who make their living by having muscular bodies, but what about some random schmuck you see working out at the gym who is noticeably large?

        fortaleza84

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

  9. “The mainstream media seems to have trained us to care.”

    This is exactly right. Women ping off the reactions of others, including the media/society at large, as to who is high value. So men’s looks do matter inasmuch as western women have been told all their lives that tall, muscular, ripped guys are the ones who are going to cause attraction. It’s like maybe there’s one sorority on your college campus that has a reputation for having the hottest girls, so in your fantasy maybe you make the girl you’re fucking part of this sorority, since it would make sense. But it’s not the shirt with the Greek letters causing arousal, it’s the hot girl you’re imagining. If the same girl was wearing a garbage collectors uniform like the pageant girl from the post a month ago, she’d still be hot.

    It’s the same with women. If they’re going to imagine some dominant, assertive dude fucking them in a fantasy, he might as well have abs since society says those are the guys who will display those attractive traits. But if a flabby guy with a tiny dick came in and displayed those same traits, the result would be the same, so it’s not like the physical appearance is causing attraction on a base level the way it would to a man.

    It is kind of ironic that women always complain the media is the one setting standards for female beauty without any underlying basis when it is really men for whom this occurs.

    Jokah Macpherson

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  10. The pop culture theory for when abs became a big deal is when Brad Pitt showed off his in that female romp with Gena Davis (can’t remember the name). It was inevitable that men would become sexualized as women have migrated (or deviated depending on whom you ask) toward looking at men differently now they have the pill.

    But, I mean look at the 70’s. Saturday Night Fever anyone? And I saw a photo of a customer in 1980 with bell bottoms that looked designed to stop the sperm factories!

    I’m very keen to see a trend in this new age of social media of male basketball players abandoning the ghetto baggy shorts towards going something slightly more retro. You can see it in March Madness; at least 15% of the players are showing off some of their man legs. They’re doing it for the girls when they add their SI photos to their socials.

    A Dilettante

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • This is what I was talking about:

      A Dilettante

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Thelma & Louise?

      ScarletNumber

      March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

  11. I see abs on kirk:

    I once stumbled onto a strange subreddit called forearmporn. While some pictures were obviously gay oriented, many pictures are just… male forearms. Sometimes with cats or interesting objects in the background. I have no clue if the intended audience is male or female.

    toomanymice

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Looks like he’s intentionally sucking in his stomach.

      Shatner was more muscular than the average man in 1966, no doubt about it, but he wasn’t ripped the way male actors are today.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Oswald Spengler

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  12. As a young boy, I actually gained a body complex from watching juicy fruit gum commercials with buff men with no shirts on. I ate less as a result and it lasted a while I have a suspicion that I threatened my growth in doing that.

    Dan

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  13. Women are very conformist, and always looking for validation from the “pack” – so, as Lion says, women look at instagram to see what high-status women are doing so they can emulate it.

    I’m convinced that this is what is behind a lot of the concern feminists have for “inclusion” and the importance of having “role models” in STEM: they honestly think that the only reason men are in those fields is because they saw other men doing them and thought “I could do that too!” But men (especially those who end up in STEM) tend to do things they think are cool, even when the “role models” are obvious losers to those in the larger society.

    James Baird

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • How are the women on Instagram high status? Many of them are nobodies who happen to be pretty and enjoy posting slutty pictures of themselves. Saying those women are high status is like saying an attractive stripper is high status.

      toomanymice

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • First of all men do mimic role models. Look at what happens when the men all act like doofuses in various underclass communities. And even if women were the only ones who needed role models, having role model in STEM would still increase their desire to go into those fields.

      Magnavox

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I have a younger gf, so I can comment with great authority on what Instagram is all about. It is primarily a medium for women to show themselves off to men, and to attempt to show up other women. For men, it is primarily soft core porn. Guys follow pretty girls who are famous or who they know in real life in the hopes they will post seductive photos.Men are not “influencers” on the site because for the most part, men are simply viewers of the content, not creators. Instagram is an essentially female app, just like Pinterest. In many respects, it is an even more purely feminine app than Pinterest because it feeds on women’s worst impulses and magnifies them.

      PerezHBD

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  14. Why is it women always wear tight clothing in the gym, whereas men where baggy knee length shorts? Women like to be looked at, they don’t mind being objectified. For men it is demeaning and gay. This is very simple.

    In other news, some Lion-bait; the first self-driving car fatality.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43459156

    prolier than thou

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • We don’t know anything about who was at fault in the car accident.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I disagree. When a car strikes and kills a pedestrian, the motorist is almost always at least partly to blame. The rare exceptions are dart-out cases and when people try to run across highways. This was not a highway, and it’s pretty unlikely that a 49-year-old woman would dart out into traffic.

        The most likely explanation is that the pedestrian was your typical narcissistic middle aged woman who walked across the street without paying much attention, knowing that cars are legally obligated to stop for her. And the vehicle’s computer system didn’t register her presence for whatever reason. When I drive in Manhattan, I regularly see people walk across the street like this,without looking.

        fortaleza84

        March 20, 2018 at EDT am

      • You are wrong, it was the pedestrian’s fault:

        “It’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Tempe police chief Sylvia Moir told the San Francisco Chronicle after viewing videos that recorded the accident.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 20, 2018 at EDT am

      • “You are wrong, it was the pedestrian’s fault”

        Assuming that your report is accurate, then yes, my guess was incorrect. Evidently this was a dart-out situation, which is unusual but does happen. But I still disagree with your claim that we don’t know anything about who was at fault — apparently we do and in any event my guess was reasonable in the absence of additional information.

        fortaleza84

        March 21, 2018 at EDT am

      • I have faith in the ability of computers to be better drivers than humans, although not necessarily perfect drivers.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 21, 2018 at EDT am

      • > fortaleza84: knowing that cars are legally obligated to stop for her

        A car has no legal obligation to stop for a pedestrian outside the crosswalk.

        ScarletNumber

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “I have faith in the ability of computers to be better drivers than humans, although not necessarily perfect drivers”

        I do too, but I don’t think we’ve reached that point yet. It’s difficult to generalize from such a small number of incidents, but from what I understand, automatic cars are way ahead of humans in terms of death per passenger mile at the moment.

        fortaleza84

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “A car has no legal obligation to stop for a pedestrian outside the crosswalk.”

        You seriously believe you could just run down jaywalkers as if you are playing Grand Theft Auto or Deathrace 2000 and not get in serious trouble?

        fortaleza84

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • The abilities of robot drivers are neither here nor there in most of the country because energy constraints mean relatively few people will be transported by cars on a daily basis in the next decade. Daily commutes from car-only places will not be viable ten years from now.

        In the urban context car based transport is stupidly inefficient from the get-go. Diesel buses will be making a big comeback throughout North America. Electric vehicles and self driving vehicles will be irrelevant. The challenge is to get an extremely efficient diesel bus network up and running, and empower people to use it with good “apps”.

        bobbybobbob

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Having now had a chance to see the actual video, I am satisfied that the car is partly to blame. The pedestrian did not dart out at all. A competent driver would have either seen her in plenty of time to stop OR would have slowed down due to limited visibility.

        fortaleza84

        March 22, 2018 at EDT am

    • I wear a snug or even tight shirt at the gym and the ladeez appreciate it — they sometimes make comments about my shirt as an excuse to stare at my chest and arms. Women aren’t aware that men have legs, as proven by Science: when sizing up a man, a woman starts at his face, then lingers at the chest and arms, slides down to the waist, then quickly back to the face. They never make it to the legs.

      hard9bf

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • They like being looked at and being objectified but they also like complaining about it.

      Magnavox

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • They like it when Chad objectifies them, otherwise it’s “creepy.”

        fortaleza84

        March 20, 2018 at EDT am

  15. women don’t care about abs at all and they don’t care very much about muscles.

    For women, the ideal male physique is probably Brad Pitt in Fight Club and he wasn’t muscular at all, although very ripped. If you are really under developed, adding muscle will make you more attractive to women but otherwise it won’t make a difference.

    Now gay guys on the other hand really are into muscles.

    Otis the Sweaty

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Brad Pitt in Fight Club was very muscular. People are just desensitized to it due to steroids. Most men could never naturally look like Pitt, and forget about Eugen Sandow.

      Anonymous Fake

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Brad Pitt in Fight Club was EXTREMELY ripped and that is sort of hard to do. But having a “surfer physique” isn’t really that hard at all and that looks close enough to Brad Pitt in Fight Club that you’ll get every practical benefit. Just eat healthy, sprint a couple times a week, and do bodyweight exercises.

      PerezHBD

      March 20, 2018 at EDT am

    • women don’t care about abs at all and they don’t care very much about muscles

      They may SAY they don’t care about muscles (because they regard “caring about appearance” as superficial, because that’s what men prioritize) but in fact they DO care about muscles.

      http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/284/1869/20171819

      “Evolution equips sexually reproducing species with mate choice mechanisms that function to evaluate the reproductive consequences of mating with different individuals. Indeed, evolutionary psychologists have shown that women’s mate choice mechanisms track many cues of men’s genetic quality and ability to invest resources in the woman and her offspring. One variable that predicted both a man’s genetic quality and his ability to invest is the man’s formidability (i.e. fighting ability or resource holding power/potential). Modern women, therefore, should have mate choice mechanisms that respond to ancestral cues of a man’s fighting ability. One crucial component of a man’s ability to fight is his upper body strength. Here, we test how important physical strength is to men’s bodily attractiveness. Three sets of photographs of men’s bodies were shown to raters who estimated either their physical strength or their attractiveness. Estimates of physical strength determined over 70% of men’s bodily attractiveness. Additional analyses showed that tallness and leanness were also favoured, and, along with estimates of physical strength, accounted for 80% of men’s bodily attractiveness. Contrary to popular theories of men’s physical attractiveness, there was no evidence of a nonlinear effect; the strongest men were the most attractive in all samples.”

      Tarl

      March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

  16. JayMan

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I’ve attended two speed dating events – one in my mid-30s and again about ten years later. The first one was stacked with several very attractive “ringers” who, I believe, were friends of, or paid by, the event organizer. I did, however, get selected by one woman – she was black. The second one was for the 30 to 40 y/o age group – I lied about my age and was, again, selected by just one woman (who, obviously, also lied about her age!).

      E. Rekshun

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • As a side note, one thing I’ve learned in life is that it’s very important to get married in your 20s due to age mismatch problems. Women are attracted to men who are roughly their age; men are attracted to women in their 20s regardless of age.

        The upshot for both sexes is that as you age past 30, the people you are most attracted to will find you less and less attractive over time; the people who are attracted to you are people who you yourself find unattractive.

        Ironically, this reality is hidden from men by feminists who are constantly whining about double-standards when it comes to aging and sexual attractiveness. But those feminists are focused exclusively on successful, high-status men — actors; musicians; captains of industry; etc. Despite all the locker-room style boasting on PUA forums, if you are an average guy in your 40s, it’s extremely unlikely that you will date — much less marry — some hottie in her 20s. The mathematics of the situation simply won’t allow it.

        fortaleza84

        March 20, 2018 at EDT am

      • As a side note, one thing I’ve learned in life is that it’s very important to get married in your 20s due to age mismatch problems.

        Very true, and as a corollary it’s also essential not to get caught up in oneitis. Heartiste had a post at one point where he highlighted a comment by someone about the importance of fathers teaching their sons about oneitis, And that has always stuck with me. My loser parents never taught me anything about dating, girls, or relationships, and I wound up squandering the bulk of my twenties on oneitis for a girl who was never going to feel the same for me, instead of meeting lots of different girls like I should have been. I can look back now and realize There were multiple other girls who were interested in me, who would check me out, but at the time I was so smitten with this one girl that I didn’t even realize it, let alone return the interest. Then at 30 I started medical school in the mistaken (pre-red-pill) belief that upping my future provider status would get me a girl, which of course didn’t work either. Now I’m over 40 and marriage looks extremely unlikely, since as you say, girls in their early twenties aren’t interested in me, and I’m not interested in 40 year old women. I kick myself all the time for having been so prone to oneitis when I was younger.

        Hermes

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

      • As a side note, one thing I’ve learned in life is that it’s very important to get married in your 20s due to age mismatch problems

        While I never suffered “oneitis” and my parents, too, never discussed relationships, I got engaged in my early 20s and again in my late 20s; regrettably, neither progressed to the logical next step. Two delightful, attractive, and impressive women got away. It got increasingly difficult to establish a connection and long-term relationship with a quality woman leading toward marriage as I aged into my late 30s, 40s, and beyond. While I’ve become reasonably well off and have retained my health and fitness, and believe that I’m pleasant and presentable enough, by my late 40s, I no longer considered or desired marriage.

        No Where Man

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Now I’m over 40 and marriage looks extremely unlikely, since as you say, girls in their early twenties aren’t interested in me, and I’m not interested in 40 year old women.”

        Yeah, it’s funny how nobody ever teaches you this. From ages 18 to 30, I was interested in girls in the 18-30 age range and I naturally assumed it was because I was attracted to girls who were roughly the same age as me. Wrong wrong wrong. On the contrary, society constantly tells us that it’s unnatural and creepy for a man in his 40s to pursue girls in their 20s. (But perfectly natural and okay for men to sexually pursue other men.)

        I suppose oneitis might have made sense in the ancestral environment. If you were really hot for a girl, you could bride-kidnap her or save up your shekels and buy her from her father. In a world where (1) 90% of men never reproduce; (2) for the most part women don’t make their own sexual decisions; and (3) your typical man meets less than 100 marriageable girls in his lifetime, oneitis probably gave men a useful kick in the pants to try to reproduce. But nowadays, it’s a very destructive impulse.

        fortaleza84

        March 21, 2018 at EDT am

      • It’s not like we could expect anybody to ever teach us this. Huge swaths of people are so blue-pilled that it sometimes makes me doubt the red pill. Of course we expect this from women–my own mother thinks I should marry just for companionship and gets irate if I say I’m not attracted to overweight, middle-aged women. But even from men–I’ve posed the “if you knew it was your last night on earth and you could pick any girl to spend it with, what kind of girl would you pick” thought experiment on other online fora and had 50-something guy after 50-something guy swear until he was blue in the face that he’d pick a 40-something woman because they’re more “experienced” and “better lovers,” while 19-year-olds are “inexperienced” and “too immature.”

        Hermes

        March 22, 2018 at EDT am

    • This is actually a pretty good clip for showing different levels of subcomms. Jesse Spencer has a commanding tonality and dominates the frame of the conversation in a playful way (“professionally? pfft, please!”) while Robert Sean Leonard is supplicating and lets the women steer the conversation into being a boring job interview. Hugh Laurie is somewhere in the middle.

      Standard disclaimer this is a TV show, but the actors and writers are basing all this on real-life archetypes.

      Jokah Macpherson

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  17. And in case you’re worried if that’s just a TV show https://twitter.com/stevestuwill/status/903902395352080385?lang=en

    JayMan

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Weird, on a dating app where you have nothing to go by but a picture, men get judged heavily based on their appearance. I mean, girls have to base their decision on something, so sure, might as well go with the one that’s better looking.

      Same way if you’re just browsing books in a bin in a bookstore (do they still have bookstores?) you might as well select the one with the most interesting cover art. But if someone tells you that the old putrid-green hardback in the corner of the bin is actually The Brothers Karamazov and you know that’s a pretty famous, renowned book and you read War and Peace by the same author last summer and enjoyed it and all your coolest, most literary friends keep telling you how awesome The Brothers Karamazov is, suddenly the case for that one becomes a lot more compelling, regardless of what cover it might happen to have.

      Jokah Macpherson

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  18. I don’t know much this ripped look is western thing. For example if you look this russian music video, the guy in this video has pretty natural body. I don’t think you would find such bodies in western music videos. Or maybe russian are just so much anti-gay?

    tmmm

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  19. My nephews and their friends are always lifting up their shirts and showing off their flat stomachs on Instagram and the like. Like sexting, it’s a thing.

    Brendan

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Maybe they’re fags.

      ScarletNumber

      March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

  20. OT but hey Lion, here’s an iSteve commenter who sounds a lot like you:

    Those towns are not leftist. Manhattan Beach voted 50/48 for Obama and Romney. And locally they are reactionary, try building a homeless shelter there for an example. So close to half rejected Obama in the midst of him winning LA in a huge landslide. Many rich Dem voting women vote for democrats because of abortion, environmental protection, and gay marriage.
    Move left and those issues but not on taxes and spending, and a Republican can outperform Trump/Romney so much they win the governorship of Massachusetts, California and Maryland.

    Raylan

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  21. A six-pack is really tough to maintain. Even at my teenage slimmest, I rocked only a vague four-pack. You have to eat very carefully to build muscle while keeping your body fat to 8 percent at most. As any weightlifter knows, fat = STRONG. When you limit your calories, your body consumes muscle along with fat, so as you get toward single-digit body fat %, you also get weaker and less muscular. The six-pack is a conundrum. Genetics certainly play a role as well.

    hard9bf

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Belly fat protects internal organs. But a “six-pack” can be evidence of a highly conditioned stomach; one that is ruthlessly strengthened by hard contractions. If fat is like thick jelly, vigorously contracted muscle is like Kevlar. Both work in some degree to dissipate violent impact to the midsection. In times of existential crisis, aesthetic concerns are secondary to the primary concern of healthy perpetuation. If it is a cross between healthy perpetuation and aesthetic projection, put your mind on a consistent regiment of hard contractions… Fasting to ketosis… And forcing upon yourself a caloric void that makes you truly hungry to live vigorously.

      thordaddy

      March 20, 2018 at EDT am

  22. Lion you underestimate how much GenY men care about their body. Probably 80% of GenY men who have hairy chests shave or use clippers on them for example. I know this because I go to the beach a lot, almost no hairy chests outside old guys. My dorm roommates in college did too, these are midwestern heterosexuals at a public university.

    Check out reddit and roissy too, tons of young men insecure about their body. Also a very high percentage lift weights. That is why “You don’t even lift?” is a meme.

    The decline in male economic status means we have to put more effort into our looks as something we can control. The Shatner body type, a basic non-fat mesomorph who doesn’t work out, is a lot rarer than it used to be. That’s what I looked like around age 16, but I am considerably more muscular than him in that picture in the chest and arms and I only lift about twice a month (had to go twice a week for a couple years to get bigger muscles, but maintaining them has been much easier).

    If you look at the data on obesity, it has grown much more among females than males, more evidence that social and economic changes are requiring men to put more often into looking good.

    pop

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “Probably 80% of GenY men who have hairy chests shave or use clippers on them for example.”

      Gone are the days when Charlton Heston could rock a hairy chest and be considered sex symbol.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Charlton Heston was 43 years old when Planet of the Apes was filmed. Heston was in pretty good shape for a middle-aged actor (who was not also an athlete).

        Oswald Spengler

        March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I’d been going to a gym for years before it finally dawned on me what gives the tatted, roided-up douchey-looking guys that peculiar look: they all shave their body hair.

      Hermes

      March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • It sounds like the more men are concerned about their body the less women care what theirs looks like

      Jay Fink

      March 20, 2018 at EDT am

      • This is true. I see countless couples where the woman is fatter than the man, but rarely see the reverse anymore. The reverse used to be so common that it became a sitcom cliche.

        ScarletNumber

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

  23. As for male natural attributes, height and broad shoulders are big aesthetic winners. His face can be ugly, and he’ll still be ok if he has the right attitude.

    For attracting women, men mainly need confidence, status, dominance, personality, etc. Looks are secondary. Handsome is as handsome DOES.

    Not to say that men shouldn’t workout to improve physical and mental health. But they shouldn’t obsess over abs like fags.

    fakeemail

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

    • For broad shoulders, train as though you were to be crucified.

      thordaddy

      March 20, 2018 at EDT am

  24. Heavy use of human growth hormone can cause massive overgrowth of the internal organs including the intestines. This has led to a strange situation among some pro bodybuilders in which they have distended abdomens yet clearly defined abdominal muscles (“abs”). Big abdomens are of course usually the result of excess body fat, which hides the abs, but among these bodybuilders the bulging abdomens result from the overgrown organs while at the same time their minimal body fat percentages leave their abs visible.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    March 19, 2018 at EDT pm

  25. There was a period of time in the past where the possibility of male modeling, fitness modeling and soft-core porn were presented options, but as was stated, one is entertaining faggots. I could probably still fitness model for a modest buck or two, but the dynamic is still the same. One is selling out for faggots. Yet, healthy-minded white boys still need models of physical ascendancy to aspire to.

    How to break the status quo homo?

    thordaddy

    March 20, 2018 at EDT am

    • Who cares about homos? This whole discussion is off track. Six packs versus a pot belly are two extremes of the spectrum. A healthy and functionally athletic male body is the right ideal. Six pack will usually develop on it’s own. Fitness is important to me as a biological being, in other words as an animal, but for a quality woman it’s not going to be too important, just like looks aren’t too important for her because looks will fade, but a good heart is forever.

      In this short humorous clip about the Soviet obsession with callisthenics pay attention to the excellent and functional physic of the singer when he performs exercises. This is what I’m talking about.

      Yakov

      March 20, 2018 at EDT am

      • “Six packs versus a pot belly are two extremes of the spectrum.”

        Actually I would say that a six pack is an extreme, while a pot belly is a normal condition of a middle aged man.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        March 20, 2018 at EDT am

      • ‘while a pot belly is a normal condition of a middle aged man.’

        So what’s your extreme than? Looking like a hippopotamus?

        Yakov

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

      • The point was is that young heterosexual white sons still need white male models of strength and vigor that aren’t tainted with the sublimation of homosexuality.

        The reality is that the entire white male model industry is geared towards homosexual consumption.

        So how many white dads do you know who are fine physical specimens for their sons to emulate?

        This ^^^ is how a white racist thinks.

        thordaddy

        March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Daddy, in sports and fitness what difference does race make? I just don’t understand you. I have a strong drive to exercise and be fit and I admire athletes who show true sportsmanship and dedication regardless of weather they are professional, amature or recreational. Mohammed Ali and Joe Freizer were great examples to me when I was boxing in the USSR. What does race have to do with anything here? Sports should be about sports and nothing else. Only an idiot like Hitler can throw a fit when a Negro wins a gold medal.

        Yakov

        March 21, 2018 at EDT pm

  26. Didn’t the sexualization of men begin with American Gigolo, with Richard Gere? Or was it was Midnight Cowboy? Or Brokeback Mountain? Or some other gay movie???

    GondwanaMan

    March 20, 2018 at EDT pm

  27. Over the last 20 or 30 years, elite colleges have started to impose a lot of ridiculous requirements on applicants: You have to have done public service; you have to have visited the college; etc. etc. Part of the reason for this is that it’s become insanely competitive to get admitted to a place like Harvard or Yale. So these schools impose more and more requirements on their applicants who are locked in an arms race to submit the most polished jazzed-up application they can.

    I think that to a large extent, it’s a similar process at work in terms of men caring about their appearance. A massive woman shortage has developed over the last 20 or 30 years. Our culture is so gynocentric that it’s not talked about much in the media these days. (If anything the claim is that there is a man shortage.)

    Twenty or thirty years ago, it was common to see a great looking girl walking down the street with an average-looking guy. Nowadays, you see that only if the guy is very rich or if the couple is just off the boat from Eastern Europe. What’s more common nowadays is to see an overweight chick with a fit man. Nowadays, if you are an attractive young woman, the dating market is such that you can get a man who is successful AND has a nice face AND is fit AND dresses nicely.

    If the dating market is like the stock market, we are in a p*ssy bubble at the moment.

    fortaleza84

    March 21, 2018 at EDT am

    • Spot on. Women might not be as visual as us, but if they are sold constantly by adverts that the six-pack look is great, they will ask for it.

      Oscar C.

      April 17, 2018 at EDT am

  28. George Reeves played Superman for 6 years, seemingly unironically.

    ScarletNumber

    March 21, 2018 at EDT pm


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