The Bangles – Manic Monday
A music video for Monday morning. This song was written for the Bangles by Prince. It deals with the bad feelings on Monday morning when you have go to a crappy job for five days before you get another two days of fun and relief from work.
But imagine how much different it was to go to work in 1985. On the train to work, everyone was reading an actual newspaper, because there were no smartphones or e-books or anything else like that. This allowed you to pick out everyone’s social class based on what newspaper they were reading. The Daily News and the New York Post were read by proles, and the higher classes read the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal.
People wore suits to work too! That business casual thing was still another decade away.
When you got to work, there were no computers. Imagine that. An office where everyone was doing some kind of office work, but they weren’t doing it on computers. It kind of makes you wonder what people did all day with no computer in front of them and no emails to read.
Also, although the technology for conference calls existed in 1985, I don’t think they were popular back then. When people had a meeting, they had to physically go into a meeting room. And how did people know there was a meeting? They received a written memo in the morning!
If you needed something typed, you would write it down on paper, and then bring it to the typing pool (possibly the only place in the office where there were computer monitors) where someone would type it for you (unless you were important enough to have your own secretary). This system guaranteed at least a lower-middle-class salary for anyone (mostly women, but men also) who would bother to learn how to type fast enough to qualify as a typist. Today, there are no skills like that where you can learn it at home and then automatically get a job, even though it was a non-self-actualizing job that would lead to carpal tunnel syndrome.
But the best part of going to work in the 1980s was that all the girls in the office had eighties hair! Like the girls in the music video. What a delight to look at eighties hair all day!
The second-best part of going to work in the 1980s is that there was no IT department full of Indians most of whom have hard-to-understand accents and some of whom have disgusting body odor.
Lion of the Blogosphere 
But imagine how much different it was to go to work in 1985.
People smoked at their desks. And it wasn’t odd to have an alcoholic beverage when out to lunch.
E. Rekshun
April 16, 2018 at 5:11 AM
I’m not sure, but I think that was already on the way out by 1985. I found this 1987 NY Times article.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 7:25 AM
I went to a European industry conference about 10 years ago and found people openly drinking alcohol at 9am. Not sure if they did this at their regular offices or if it was just because they were at a conference, but it was a bit of a culture shock.
Wency
April 16, 2018 at 10:29 AM
When you got to work, there were no computers. Imagine that. An office where everyone was doing some kind of office work, but they weren’t doing it on computers. It kind of makes you wonder what people did all day with no computer in front of them and no emails to read.
It says something about modernity that even people who were actually around back then find it hard to imagine.
IHTG
April 16, 2018 at 5:51 AM
I have no experience as an office worker in the pre-computer age. By 1990 or so, computers were everywhere (although they were not yet connected to the interent). But in 1985 it was a different computer-free world.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 7:23 AM
In 1985 I wrote letters all day long in response to the 5000 or so the place I worked for received each week. I also had to research responses. I wrote my letters on an IBM selectric. I created stock paragraphs that I’d later input with a code into letters with some personally identifying feature where required. A secretary who worked some outlet of the main computer (IBM I’d guess) computer system would input my personalized additions along with the stock paragraph codes to create letters for mailing. I didn’t have a computer terminal nor a PC and I was working for the government.
Curle
April 16, 2018 at 9:53 AM
The government was always behind the times in computerizing.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 10:36 AM
Your timeline is just about right. In the mid-80s I used to work on a “dumb” terminal, generating reams of paper and using canned software on a “time-sharing” service. The PCs and individual printers started showing up around 1988.
At least then the terminals were hard-wired. Back in the 70s you had to call in and put the phone set on an acoustic coupler held in place by a couple of rubber cups. All for a blazing speed of 1600 baud (gasp!)
Back then I also used by typing skill to get me through periods of unemployment. Today I’m glad I’m retired and don’t have to go through that any more.
Meanwhile, here’s another Monday song from 1967, before your time.
And of course, who can forget the most famous Monday song of all?
sestamibi
April 16, 2018 at 10:19 AM
“All for a blazing speed of 1600 baud (gasp!)”
That’s fast! My first modem for my Atari 800 computer was only 300 baud. I envied the rich kids who could afford 1600 baud.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 10:37 AM
“It says something about modernity that even people who were actually around back then find it hard to imagine.”
The thing I grapple with is the comparative low quality, or seeming low quality, of the people I work with now compared to then. Perhaps being young I was overly impressed, but I don’t recall a single deadbeat or person with an inflated college degree as a colleague or workers who got away with one excuse after another for failure. People who had HS degrees and were competent seem to have been replaced with people with college degrees (from shit schools) who are comparatively incompetent but the degree gives them an attitude the HS graduates never had (to my recollection).
Curle
April 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM
In 1985, working at a large government defense contractor, I wrote C code on a dumb terminal connected to a mainframe. Secretaries typed on a typewriter, often typing reports by listening to dictation recorded on cassette tape. They may have been around, but I don’t remember word processing terminals for secretaries until about 1990.
E. Rekshun
April 16, 2018 at 11:07 AM
There were Wang word processors as early as the 1970s.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM
In the mid-80s, the Radio Shack TRS-80 connected to your TV as the monitor.
In 1987, during my one year in the evening program at a toilet law school, I typed my papers on a $60 Brother word processor. It looked like a slightly larger electric typewriter with an 8-inch screen, disk storage (I think), and the printer was part of the unit. It worked pretty well.
E. Rekshun
April 16, 2018 at 11:13 AM
As a kid I was given a brother word processor as a Christmas gift. Very dependable and worked great. One of the best gifts I ever received.
toomanymice
April 16, 2018 at 12:21 PM
I took a course in FORTRAN using punched cards in about 1974.
Rosenmops
April 16, 2018 at 2:42 PM
I worked in an office for awhile in 1977. I did some typing but I don’t really remember what else I did. I remember people smoking, which was gross.
Rosenmops
April 16, 2018 at 10:23 AM
I began working on the cusp of the anti-smoking era. I used to smoke at my desk at my first job, which was a MadMan-type ad agency. Had a ball. I looked forward to going to work.
I quit later. Both the job and the cigs. I can’t believe I ever smoked.
gothamette
April 16, 2018 at 10:48 AM
The girls were feminine.
j
April 16, 2018 at 5:54 AM
Lion misses that the average girls not only had 80s hair, but 80s bodies. Meaning they weren’t an average of 40-50lbs overweight.
Panther of the Blogocube
April 16, 2018 at 7:34 AM
This is vastly overstated.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 7:55 AM
No, it’s not. Obesity rates have like doubled since the 1980s. And for a person who is 5 foot 5, the difference between BMI 25 (the upper limit of “normal weight”) and BMI over 30 (the definition of obese) is about 40 lb.
Hermes
April 16, 2018 at 8:16 AM
Yeah I really miss the days when 90% of girls between 18 and 30 were f*ckable.
fortaleza84
April 16, 2018 at 10:19 AM
“Yeah I really miss the days when 90% of girls between 18 and 30 were f*ckable.”
Trust fortaleza84 to say this. You are truly disgusting. As if any of them would have fucked you. (Why not just write fuck instead of f*ck?)
Fuck you.
gothamette
April 16, 2018 at 10:46 AM
“You are truly disgusting.”
It’s true. The truth is disgusting and when I post anonymously online I don’t have to tiptoe around the sad fact that the obesity epidemic has destroyed the sexual attractiveness of vast numbers of young women.
fortaleza84
April 16, 2018 at 11:25 AM
It’s true, fortaleza, that there are better adjectives.
The obesity epidemic is something else. 70% of all american adults are overweight! I see children all the time who are seriously overweight. This is crazy!
Back in the 80s my 6’2″ 280 lb father looked massively overweight, these days he would just look normal.
He lost a lot of weight for back surgery but is still kind of overweight, yet looks thinner than many men his age nowadays.
toomanymice
April 16, 2018 at 12:28 PM
Lion, fortaleza84, and I, along with other guys who post here, have a thing for women with ’80s hair for one reason and one reason only: it happened to be the popular look when we hit puberty. Therefore, we will always associate it with our sexual awakening. If, at birth, we had been put into time machines and sent to 1915, we’d get hot and bothered over the bobbed-hair look of the flapper girls. Sent to 1945? We’d fetishize beehives. That’s all.
njguy73
April 16, 2018 at 6:16 PM
I’m not sure how it’s overstated.
Statistics indicate over 40% of adult American women are obese (https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/overweight-obesity). That’s going to be roughly 40-50lbs overweight. Not that I think the 80s were some magical time where all women were thin, but the girl who was on the upper end of the normal weight range then, but the upper end of the normal weight range now is literally the Michelin Man.
I see women like this all the time : https://height-weight-chart.com/505-220.html
Literally 2x the weight they should be.
This is an actual tragedy & travesty.
Panther of the Blogocube
April 16, 2018 at 6:51 PM
“Yeah I really miss the days when 90% of girls between 18 and 30 were f*ckable.”
I’m kind of glad that Gothamette told you off, Fortaleza. I don’t think she’s denying that there are more obese women now percentage wise than there were in the 1980’s, it’s just that it gets annoying to hear the men on this blog talk about women solely in terms of whether they are arm candy or would be desirable to bed. Same with the constant charge that women either want men who are so high on the social scale (wealthy, super-educated, prominent, etc..) that most men wouldn’t stand a chance with them or so low ( “bad boy” types who are violent and irresponsible) that the average man can’t lower his dignity or his morals that far. Men who speak this way then have a convenient excuse for remaining single.
maryk
April 16, 2018 at 8:05 PM
@maryk:
This is hardly locker room talk, but men simply want women who are attractive and feminine. Finding that with any regularity in America is virtually impossible. If you think that’s offensive, then feel free to direct us toward the secret enclave of non-obese, non-narcissistic women. Women not being obese isn’t a particularly high standard, it’s bare minimum level of expectation, akin to expecting a man to have a job or not be physically abusive.
Panther of the Blogocube
April 16, 2018 at 9:22 PM
Typical hamsterizing from maryk and gothamette. I agree with Panther of the Blogocube; women not being obese is a bare minimum, akin to a man having a job or not being physically abusive. A life of booze and video games is more appealing to a man than a woman with BMI > 30 and no amount of feminist shaming language is going to change that.
Hermes
April 17, 2018 at 12:03 AM
That height-weight-chart.com website is great because it lets you see what a given BMI looks like, and thus reveals the misconceptions people have about obesity. Remember, the definition of obese is BMI > 30. (25-30 is “overweight.”) You don’t have to look like the people on My 600 Pound Life to qualify as obese. ALL the people in all the photos on the following pages are not merely overweight, they are OBESE:
https://height-weight-chart.com/505-180.html
https://height-weight-chart.com/504-180.html
https://height-weight-chart.com/503-170.html
https://height-weight-chart.com/502-160.html
https://height-weight-chart.com/506-190.html
https://height-weight-chart.com/507-190.html
https://height-weight-chart.com/508-200.html
Hermes
April 17, 2018 at 12:11 AM
For what it me be worth, I never liked 80s hair and still don’t to this day. I do agree with the imprint theory though. My first girlfriend liked to wear short denim miniskirts with light colored panties and I still think it’s one of the sexiest looks imaginable.
As far as the “be nice!” argument goes, we live in a society where there is a taboo against noticing that we are being overrun with fat, disgusting, sexually unappealing women. Where normal male heterosexual desire is incessantly stigmatized and invalidated. Where women are constantly put on a pedestal and men are told they are unworthy.
How frequently are there mainstream newspaper articles and stories bemoaning the shortage of “eligible” men? By contrast, how often do such articles talk about the fact that there are very few women who are slender, under-30, and childless? The first happens on a regular basis; the second hardly ever. No, men’s legitimate desires are brushed aside. We’re not supposed to object at all to being paired off with some obese single mother. If we complain about fat making a woman sexually unattractive, then we are “body shaming” — a terrible crime in The Current Year.
The few posts on blogs like this one are just pissing in an ocean of gynocentrism. Besides, I think that “be nice!” is usually a lie, that usually the real objection is to the underlying message and not to the amount of sugar coating. Political correctness was originally sold under the “be nice!” banner, but the examples of James Damore and Larry Summers show that once political correctness takes root, you get full on censorship and no amount of niceness will protect you if the underlying message contradicts the Narrative.
So no, I won’t be nice. My message is inherently non-nice and offensive.
fortaleza84
April 17, 2018 at 6:20 AM
@Hermes
Regarding shaming, it’s worth noting that a pretty common feminist rebuttal is “You are sexually unattractive.” i.e. attempting to take advantage of men’s instinctual desire to be thought of as sexually attractive by women.
Here is a response from this very thread:
“You are truly disgusting. As if any of them would have fucked you.”
I think men need to recognize these tactics for what they are and move away from deriving their sense of self-worth from female validation.
fortaleza84
April 17, 2018 at 9:08 AM
MGTOW is an underrated philosophy.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 17, 2018 at 9:17 AM
I would have to agree about MGTOW. Even if you are a married guy or otherwise looking to get into a relationship with a woman, it’s still useful to become aware of your own instinctive desire for female validation and how this instinct has led to runaway gynocentrism in society.
fortaleza84
April 17, 2018 at 10:54 AM
I am not claiming that men wanting a woman to be non-obese is unrealistic. But I’m not sure this is the complaint. What a lot of the men on here really mean is that the woman must be under 30 and “hot.” What they don’t realize is that once a man passes a certain age his chances of getting a woman under 30 are small, and most women at ANY age are not “hot”, although naturally young women are on the whole, hotter than older women.
And it is absurd to say that for a man to expect a woman to be non-obese is the same as for a woman to expect a man to hold a job. Obesity (unless its freakish obesity) doesn’t prevent a woman from getting pregnant and giving birth. Unless he comes from wealth, not holding a job would prevent a man from providing for his family. Nor does obesity prevent her from being a good wife and mother. It just prevents her from being arm candy that makes other men jealous of the man she’s with. A more realistic demand would be that the woman be fertile and that her family not have a history of serious illnesses that are genetically determined.
I understand of course that any person is going to be more attractive at normal body weight – male or female. But a lot of men just want to marry or date out of their league and don’t seem willing to accept that this isn’t realistic. So they make up one excuse after another as to why they can’t find a suitable woman. And some women do the same thing about men, using other factors as excuses.
maryk
April 17, 2018 at 10:46 PM
@Maryk
I think you are attacking a strawman here. You imply that you know what I “really” mean, but the reality is that I meant exactly what I said, nothing more and nothing less. Almost every woman under the age of 30 is sexually attractive, provided that she is not fat. Regardless of whether she is “hot” or not.
As far as whether I personally could seduce such a woman, this is something of an academic question since I am married and have not tried to get a random girl into bed in a long long time. Moreover, it is irrelevant since I enjoy even just looking at women and it is disappointing and depressing to go out and see so many fat disgusting women.
That said, based on my personal observations, I would say that a man who is 45 can seduce girls in their 20s just as easily as a man who is 25, which is to say not that easily at all but if he is fit and well-dressed and persistent, it’s not outrageously difficult. It’s just become a lot more difficult to do it in venues like bars and clubs and social events, in part because there are so few f*ckable women and there are so many men chasing them so that girls can be super-picky.
fortaleza84
April 18, 2018 at 3:01 AM
“Obesity (unless its freakish obesity) doesn’t prevent a woman from getting pregnant and giving birth. ”
It’s difficult for a man to impregnate a woman if he finds her repulsive. Besides, obesity raises the risks of infertility and child-bearing problems dramatically.
” But a lot of men just want to marry or date out of their league and don’t seem willing to accept that this isn’t realistic.”
I can’t speak for other men, but if I were single, I would agree that it’s unrealistic for me to marry a slender woman in her 20s. Even if I were back in my 20s but in today’s romantic marketplace it would be an accomplishment since I am short and average-looking and there are so few slender women anymore.
Which goes into my point — in terms of what’s realistic, reality pretty much sucks right now for single men.
Anyway, the bigger picture is that you are engaged in more feminist shaming tactics. It’s legitimate for men of any age to bemoan the obesity epidemic in women. When you respond by accusing those men of being sexually unattractive, unrealistically seeking women “out of their league,” you are attempting to use men’s instinctive need for female validation to trivialize and dismiss their legitimate gripes.
fortaleza84
April 18, 2018 at 4:05 AM
@maryk
You act like men don’t instinctively know who is and who isn’t out of their league. Men have a very simple job in evaluating women, we look at them. We are quite reliable in determining women who are in our attractiveness range. Cumulative effects of progressive Obesification and Narcissism brought on by social media have damaged women beyond repair.
Panther of the Blogocube
April 18, 2018 at 8:41 PM
“You act like men don’t instinctively know who is and who isn’t out of their league. Men have a very simple job in evaluating women, we look at them”
I agree, but there do exist men who suffer from the “I’m okay so you better be perfect” syndrome. Which seems to be a lot more common among women than men, but all that is beside the point.
See, as you point out, obesity and runaway narcissism have made women much less attractive in recent years. This is pretty much undeniable so rather than respond to the merits of this claim, women tend to respond with feminist shaming tactics. e.g. “You’re a short fat bald middle-aged man who thinks he’s entitled to a 25-year-old hottie” This is actually a pretty effective technique for silencing men, since men are programmed to seek and value female validation. When a woman asserts that a man is sexually unattractive, it plays right into his natural insecurities.
Here’s what one person said a few posts back:
“You are truly disgusting. As if any of them would have fucked you.”
This is a 100% pure grade-A feminist shaming attempt and people need to be aware of it for what it is.
fortaleza84
April 19, 2018 at 7:07 AM
I certainly don’t think, and don’t think most men think, that an average 45-year-old man is entitled to a 22-year-old hottie. What I say is that the man should have been able to marry a 22-year-old when he was 25. Then at 45 he’s got a wife who, though she is post-wall, he can look at with “wife goggles” and remember their young love, plus she’s the mother of his children and they’ve gone through the vagaries of life together. Instead, what happens is that the 25-year-old man who wants to marry at that age can’t, because all the twentysomething women are partying it up, traveling, and casually dating (or if they’re in church, where I was, they’re not sleeping around, but not getting married either because the average twentysomething man just doesn’t get their motor running.) Then at 30 they finally decide they’re ready to get married and settle down, but by then they’re post-wall and have lost the sex appeal that would make a man want to start a life with one of them. A man in his forties who complains about this is not saying “I should have been able to wait until this age, and marry a 22 year old hottie.” He never wanted to wait until his forties. He’s saying “I should have been able to marry a cute 22 year old when I was 25.”
@fortaleza84,
I think it’s more that they’re trying to make the man feel rejected, like when a man pursues a woman and she turns him down. You could say these are two sides of the same coin, but It’s not the absence of validation, it’s the presence of rejection that stings. It’s not the withholding of a pleasant stimulus, it’s the delivery of a painful stimulus. Of course, the rejection doesn’t logically make sense because nobody here was asking gothamette out, but it doesn’t need to make sense, because women have an instinct telling them that if they need to make a man feel bad, the way to do it is sexual rejection.
Hermes
April 19, 2018 at 11:38 PM
“What I say is that the man should have been able to marry a 22-year-old when he was 25.”
I think it needs to be added that for most men (of any age), this hypothetical 22-year-old doesn’t need to be “hot.” In terms of appearance the main requirement is that she not be obese. Women have a perception that they need to be “hot” to attract men, but that’s necessary only if they want a Chad, i.e. a man who is in the top 10-20% of looks/money/status. Unfortunately, men in the bottom 80% of sexual attractiveness are — in a very literal sense — invisible to most women. They are simply not perceived as sexual beings if they are noticed at all.
“It’s not the withholding of a pleasant stimulus, it’s the delivery of a painful stimulus”
I agree. I should have said something like “Men instinctively place a lot of value of women’s opinion of them, especially their sexual attractiveness.”
fortaleza84
April 20, 2018 at 11:40 AM
fortaleza84, I agree, my college girlfriend had kind of geeky facial features, and scoliosis so bad it had required surgery, so not only did she have a misshapen torso, she also had a massive scar running up and down the length of her spine… and I was champing at the bit to put a ring on that because hey, she was nice, thin, cute in a geeky sort of way, and she really liked me. Instead she broke up with me, dated around, I believe had some casual sex, got back in touch with me a couple years later wanting to see me again because she had “gotten into an abusive relationship and missed feeling safe” (which of course I said no to,) and I think eventually wound up getting married in her 30s to an aimless drifter who didn’t have a real job, but whom, I presume, was charismatic and charming, and not having children. If she had led the life I wanted for us when I was in my early twenties, we would now be living in a house in the suburbs with three kids, a white picket fence, and a golden retriever, and my spare time would be spent helping the kids with their homework, doing yard work, and going on an occasional date night with my wife, not grousing about how I’m entitled to a 22 year old hottie. But women like maryk and gothamette just can’t see that.
Hermes
April 20, 2018 at 1:55 PM
Hermes, your story doesn’t prove the point you’re trying to make. First of all, you didn’t say why your college girlfriend ended the relationship with you. You seem to be implying that she did this for no good reason or because she simply thought someone else better might come along. Maybe she thought the two of you were not compatible for reasons you don’t want to tell us. Secondly, her dumping you didn’t stop you from finding another woman. You’re still in your 30’s aren’t you? You aren’t too old to get married. It sounds to me like you’re looking for an excuse not to be serious with any other women. I’m sorry if she hurt you, I know breaks-ups can be painful. But anyone intelligent enough to attend med school would know that you don’t give up on all relationships just because one didn’t work out.
And I never said that all men who are after young hot women are balding 45 year olds. A lot of men at any age are just unrealistic about the kind of women they are likely to attract. As for this idea that most ordinary and decent looking 25 year old women are too busy partying and traveling, it’s absurd. Most people are not party animal types, even in adolescence. Traveling, or at least traveling often, takes a good deal of money that most women (and most men) don’t have. I hardly know what to make of your claim that even church women avoid marriage because they can’t find a man “who gets their motor running.” How would you even know this? Do such women talk to you about the subject?
It’s significant that you referred to your ex-girlfriend as “that” (I wanted to put a ring on that?)
maryk
April 20, 2018 at 4:34 PM
That’s an unfortunate story Hermes. My sense is that I’m a few years older than you, because in my day, it was much more frowned upon for girls to slut it up. Believe it or not, every girl I dated wanted to marry me. Not because I am particularly special, but because back then most women would not have sex with a man unless things were pretty serious.
One thing that’s interesting is that even if you end up in the house in the suburbs, the battle far from over because your daughters are bombarded with feminist nonsense and your sons will have an even harder time than you finding a decent woman. In fact, I’m looking forward to our entire cucked civilization getting taken over by serious Amish, Evangelicals, Orthodox Jews, etc. It may seem ridiculous to believe that the world was literally created in a week, but Leftists believe in things that are even more ridiculous and at least creationism is relatively harmless.
fortaleza84
April 20, 2018 at 5:06 PM
“Hermes, your story doesn’t prove the point you’re trying to make.”
It seems to me that at a minimum, it confirms that you are wrong to the extent you assert that men unrealistically hold out for women who are “hot.” That’s not true at all. Most men in their 20s would be perfectly happy with a woman who is roughly their age; not fat; and their looks-match. If I were single, I would be happy with almost any woman under 30 who was not fat. Is that unrealistic? Yes it is, because reality sucks right now for men who are not in the top 10-20% of looks/money/status.
I certainly don’t blame young women for preferring men in their age range, but I do blame them for pigging out and getting fat as well as for slutting it up with alpha badboys in their 20s and early 30s and then expecting some beta male provider to play Captain Save-a-Ho once they’ve had their fun. Both of these activities are both destructive and widespread enough that they really do make it harder for men of all ages to find a decent woman.
I do agree that it’s not too late for Hermes. If he has a solid career and is in decent shape, he could easily find some sweet girl in the Philippines to marry.
fortaleza84
April 20, 2018 at 6:19 PM
maryk, she broke up with me because she wasn’t attracted to me anymore. When we first got together I was an impressive upperclassman; after I graduated I was a schmo who didn’t know what to do with his life. I was totally blue pill and thought women liked men who were “sensitive” and “open with their feelings,” so I felt free to whine and complain to her about not knowing what to do with my life, thinking she’d find it “sweet.” I was so blue pill that I never realized she originally liked me because she saw me as alpha; I thought it was because I was kind and sweet and nice and romantic and gave her flowers and told her she was pretty and said “I love you.” I was totally dumbfounded when she broke up with me, at a loss to understand why, and it took me years before I understood the dynamic there.
I am not saying any of this to complain about my life or seek advice, just to rebut your point of view. I’ve said before that got over my college girlfriend only by developing oneitis on a different girl, and then proceeded to squander the entire rest of my twenties, six years, on one continuous case of oneitis for said girl. That was my greatest mistake. I then started med school at thirty, thinking girls would view a future doctor as a rock star, but discovered as a medical student, you’re just too low on the totem pole. For a few years in residency I got decent attention from women, and that brief time is when you might reasonably make the case that I was being too picky. But by then I was already in my late thirties. Now I’m 41 and the drive to pursue women or to get married and have a family just isn’t as strong.
I base my statements about church girls on direct observations made over several years of weekly attendance at and active involvement in one of these evangelical “young adults” church groups.
The “that” was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the way guys on the internet talk about girls, and the Beyonce song “Single Ladies” which uses “put a ring on it” to refer to a woman.
fortaleza, mainstream Evangelicals are not going to save us. Half or more of their children rebel and become SJWs. And those are the ones who even have biological children, as opposed to the ones who adopt eight Ethiopian babies.
Philippines? No thanks; I know you mean well, but it’s white girl or nothing for me.
Hermes
April 20, 2018 at 10:19 PM
“Then at 30 they finally decide they’re ready to get married and settle down, but by then they’re post-wall and have lost the sex appeal that would make a man want to start a life with one of them”
If most women aren’t attractive enough for you when they’re 30 then you’re standards are unrealistic . 30 is still quite young. If you’d said 40 I’d have more sympathy for your situation. Most women don’t decline that much in attractiveness between say, 22 and 30. The bigger decline comes some time in the 30s, maybe 33-38. What does decline noticeably between 22 and 30 is a woman’s ability to have a “girlish” look rather than a womanly look (even if it’s an attractive womanly look.) I guess you consider your standard realistic because you only expect her to look super-young, not super-hot. But it’s still unrealistic. And what if you’d found your decent looking 25 year old wife when you were 25 and married her right away? You’d have 5 good years at most and then she’d have lost all her sex appeal to you. Are you sure that her being the mother of your children and your legal wife would be enough to keep you with her at that point? Not to insult you Hermes, but you sound to me like you really just want arm candy. If this is the case then it is better that you NOT get married. Nevertheless, I wish you the best. No sarcasm intended.
maryk
April 21, 2018 at 1:08 AM
“If most women aren’t attractive enough for you when they’re 30 then you’re standards are unrealistic ”
I think that Hermes would readily concede that his standards are unrealistic, which is a big part of the reason he is still unmarried. As for me, if my relationship with my wife ends, then I will be unmarried for the rest of my life unless I become rich and famous or move to the Philippines.
I do agree that there are many women who are sexually attractive at age 30, or even 35 or 40. But for me, the point of getting married is to have 2 or 3 children. If a woman is over 30, there really isn’t enough time to meet; get to know each other; develop a serious relationship; and have 2 or 3 children.
Besides, it’s more difficult to have a committed relationship with a woman who has spent her 20s having flings with alpha badboys and chads. Men these days don’t necessarily want or need a virgin bride, but if there are a lot of miles on the odometer, it’s a problem.
“Are you sure that her being the mother of your children and your legal wife would be enough to keep you with her at that point?”
This is just more feminist misdirection. Of course men have the urge to leave their wives once they are post-wall. That’s why there are strong social norms (and laws) in place to discourage men from bailing and to make them pay dearly if they do. Failure to pay child support is treated far more seriously than failure to pay any other debt.
That’s one of the things that’s so infuriating about slut acceptance and fat acceptance. Our gynocentric society is gradually removing all the checks on destructive behavior by women while leaving in place (or even tightening) restrictions on men.
fortaleza84
April 21, 2018 at 9:34 AM
“or move to the Philippines.”
So impractical compared to moving to Florida.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 21, 2018 at 11:32 AM
I loved how you explained the good things about 80s work life, fashion etc in your post but somehow the last sentence marred the whole experience…..is it okay to generalize people? Indians? Body odor? are you sure all Indians stink and it is not a problem people from other nations don’t suffer from? Accented English can be difficult to comprehend….but so is poor grammar, right?
Piyali
April 16, 2018 at 6:08 AM
I think that Wordpess has stopped banning my blog from showing up in their search.
“Body odor? are you sure all Indians stink”
I used the word “some” on purpose, and the some with b.o. stink like you can’t believe.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 7:18 AM
I found this Quora post about Indian BO, written by an Indian-American, which seems interesting:
https://www.quora.com/Do-Indians-smell-differently-than-people-of-other-ethnicities-If-so-why
Seems like a combination of genetics and diet. I only recall having one Indian co-worker, and it so happens that he was basically driven out of the company for his smell. The trouble is that unlike Lion’s IT guys, he was in a position where he had to sometimes interact with clients. But he was otherwise a solid worker, and no one ever told him about his smell. I suppose there were concerns he might sue if he’d known.
Or maybe more generally, white male co-workers may openly criticize one another for poor grooming or personal habits, but they will not generally do so with women, minorities, gays, trannies, etc. But they will still try to work the levers to push poorly-groomed people out of the company, or at least hide them from customers.
It is known that many/most East Asians do not naturally produce body odor due to genetics. But Chinese often make up for it by consuming massive quantities of garlic. Japanese don’t do this so much and might be the most pleasant-smelling people on Earth (or maybe Koreans?). They are also thin — the dream of the 80s is alive in Japan. But, you know, it’s all in Japanese.
Wency
April 16, 2018 at 11:07 AM
“Japanese don’t do this so much and might be the most pleasant-smelling people on Earth (or maybe Koreans?).”
Koreans eat some pretty harsh food, and yes garlic.
Japanese food is pleasantly bland compared to other Asian cuisines, a lot more like normal American food but with more rice and seafood.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 11:18 AM
“is it okay to generalize people?”
How informative is it to have a blog pointing out that all hillbillies aren’t inbred and violent? People know this. Why would they need to read about it? For people who don’t live around hillbillies, perhaps the generalization would provide useful.
Curle
April 16, 2018 at 10:37 AM
I used the word “some.”
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 10:39 AM
The most inbred population is probably Muslims, especially from Pakistan.
Rosenmops
April 16, 2018 at 12:17 PM
A 60’s guy, I hated 80’s hair. So, I counter The Bangles with The Lovin Spoonful’s Summer in the City,
bob sykes
April 16, 2018 at 7:51 AM
All I see in that video are hats.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 7:54 AM
1985 there were ibm PC’s even here in Montana.
Mrs Stitch
April 16, 2018 at 8:27 AM
The 1980s was long before the diversity craze. When corporations were more right-wing fascist rather than left-wing fascist as they are today.
Englander
April 16, 2018 at 8:38 AM
Unscrupulous behavior in capitalism among Western Europeans took hold after the French Revolution in 1789, which marked a delineation of individual self aggrandizement over the greater collective.
It appears that the Anglo Sphere perfected this to the T.
JS
April 16, 2018 at 10:27 AM
Mate, without laws, regulations and unions you would have 10 year olds working in the mines just like they did 150 years ago. This is the nature of unregulated capitalism. You need a corporate state for a society to function harmoniously without class struggle and to protect your people from cheap immigrant labor and overseas slaves. Anglo-Saxons are no different than anyone else, Jews included. Society needs to be balanced and united to succeed.
Yakov
April 16, 2018 at 11:50 AM
“You need a corporate state for a society to function harmoniously without class struggle and to protect your people from cheap immigrant labor and overseas slaves. ”
It seems our wonderful state wants to import cheap labor and allow jobs to be outsourced so we have the worst of both worlds. Plus, they force diversity on us through anti-discrimination laws and give affirmative action to certain groups on top of that. We are being attacked from all sides. Oh, and we have to pay taxes to help pay for these immigrants.
I used to think the govt got rid of child labor but I don’t believe that to be the case. It went away because we got richer.
ttgy1
April 16, 2018 at 8:51 PM
I always disliked those people who whined about Mondays and lived for the weekend. If you don’t like your job that much, you are a loser. People should run to work. Without it people would turn into animals. Say all I could get is a job sweeping the floors and throwing out garbage, I would do it joyfully while stretching and bending and twisting to gain the most physical benefit, while my mind can focus on something else. I wouldn’t be miserable doing it. Any work is good and idleness should be punished.
You Mate, obviously have a terrible job. You better do something about it or you become a vegetable. Now, obviously I’m low IQ and it may be different for people with a higher IQ, I’m not saying not. Most of those who keep on whinning are more stupid than me though. So I dunno about you exactly, but what I’m saying is 99% true.
Yakov
April 16, 2018 at 8:52 AM
“I always disliked those people who whined about Mondays and lived for the weekend. If you don’t like your job that much, you are a loser.”
100%.
gothamette
April 16, 2018 at 10:47 AM
According to the Gervais principle, the majority of workers at a big corporation are “losers”: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 11:13 AM
Gervais is a nasty piece of work and I won’t bother to read the link.
That’s not what I meant – I do not speak for Yakov. I’ve known people who work for corporations & they are perfectly happy people.
gothamette
April 16, 2018 at 1:10 PM
The guy who has Monday blues is an unreliable worker. I cannot trust such a guy to do anything properly and he usually doesn’t. I hate these losers. Lazy bastards that whine instead of bettering themselves and pull the projects down. Incidentally, as a service tech more than 50% of my job is cleaning up and fixing stuff after them and who pays? The customer. There is nothing wrong with 30% of compressors returned under warranty. Who pays? The customer. My mother lives in a 45 year old 25 story building. I haven’t seen anything comparable in quality being built today.
Yakov
April 16, 2018 at 12:46 PM
Like it or leave it. Otherwise quitcher wining and figure out something better to do.
gothamette
April 16, 2018 at 6:36 PM
Cat, you can’t escape this ubiquitous laziness and incompetence.
Yakov
April 17, 2018 at 8:26 AM
SWPL vs. prole is bullcrap. There’s two classes: high and low. High plan for four generations, Low plan for Saturday night. Thank you and drive through.
njguy73
April 16, 2018 at 4:01 PM
Okay, this was a classic (and enjoyable) Lion entry.
Andrew E.
April 16, 2018 at 9:06 AM
OT: Elon Musk says all the robots at the Tesla factory were causing inefficiency, and had to be replaced with human workers:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-elon-musk-humans-underrated-model-3/
Hermes
April 16, 2018 at 9:13 AM
Remember the ending of Back to the Future, when Marty goes back to 1985 and we’re shown all these improved things about his family? At the beginning of the movie his older brother had worked at McDonald’s, but at the end Marty expresses surprise to see him wearing a suit at the breakfast table and he responds “what are you talking about, Marty? I always wear a suit to the office!” So he had an office job that required wearing a suit but still lived with his parents? I was a kid in 1985 but I wouldn’t think that was common even then.
Hermes
April 16, 2018 at 9:22 AM
I would say yes, that was common. Entry level office jobs often required suits, and if that was already phasing out by 1985, it was still valid enough to make a point in the movie.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 10:35 AM
At this point in her career, had Susanna Hoffs dated our President or did she not get on his radar until “Eternal Flame”?
Fiddlesticks
April 16, 2018 at 9:56 AM
O/t- Men need apply. A female only island for women techies who think they’re Amazons.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/small-business/after-working-in-a-world-of-tech-bros-this-woman-founded-a-female-only-island/ar-AAvTSVk?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout
JS
April 16, 2018 at 10:44 AM
I took a typing course as an elective in 8th grade and it was a great decision since I avoided becoming a “pecker” when typing. The only downside was it took about a year after the class ended before I stopped typing out, in my head, every word I came across.
Andrew E.
April 16, 2018 at 10:49 AM
Nothing wrong with chicken typing. I could easily match or beat any touch typer’s WPM, at least typing from memory. I did slow down a little after a bad hand injury.
toomanymice
April 16, 2018 at 12:36 PM
In 1985, there were more computers in offices and newsrooms than you remember. You just couldn’t use them to socialize, buy things or watch porn.
Brendan
April 16, 2018 at 11:46 AM
lion, did you ever actually TOUCH a woman’s hair in the 80s? If so it would quickly lose the appeal once you realized all the gel and hair spray involved.
toomanymice
April 16, 2018 at 12:33 PM
Speaking of typing, I used to know the guy who was in the Guinness book of records as the world’s fastest typist, 160 wpm on a manual. His name is Ron Mingo, a guy from Compton who had an interesting life. First, he was on a L.A, City champion high school baseball team that had 3 future big-time major leaguers on it (Ron himself was drafted by the Angels). Then he was a sparring partner for George Foreman, and finally he made it onto “That’s Incredible!” for his typing ability. Here he is in action:
Marty
April 16, 2018 at 1:25 PM
Was he as fast as this guy?
sestamibi
April 16, 2018 at 4:32 PM
In trying to get my head around Lion’s obsession with Indian co-workers, I have question as a non-American. Thus, outside of the greater NYC or San Jose areas, do Indians even ping on the radar in the rest of the country. Bellevue, Wa (across the border from where I live) has a large Indian population, but it’s really just an honorary offshoot of San Jose, so I’m not sure if it’s any way representative of most of the US. On a side note, I’m not opposed to critiquing ethnic minorities (I regularly read StormFront, never mind Unz or Taki), but by focussing almost exclucely on Indians for their BO, you’re actually letting them off the hook for much else.
Roli
April 16, 2018 at 1:43 PM
There are lots of Indians in Seattle because of Microsoft, and I bet Amazon is using them also.
I tend to write about Indian BO after smelling a co-worker.
Lion of the Blogosphere
April 16, 2018 at 2:47 PM
“But the best part of going to work in the 1980s was that all the girls in the office had eighties hair! Like the girls in the music video. What a delight to look at eighties hair all day!”
For Christ’s sakes, don’t get me started.
Peter
ironrailsironweights
April 16, 2018 at 4:41 PM
1985 was a bit before my working time but IINM it was just about when computers started becoming common in offices. Within just a few years they were pretty much ubiquitous.
Cell phones followed a similar trajectory. They first hit the market around 1990 but for the first few years were found mostly in cars. Within five years just about everyone had one.
Peter
ironrailsironweights
April 16, 2018 at 4:45 PM
During the transition to personal computers in the office, my father, an engineer at NASA, was spending some down time learning to use one and got reprimanded by his boss with something like, “Mr. Macpherson! That’s not what we pay you for!”
It sounds weird in the present day where competency with a personal computer is a minimum requirement for 100% of office jobs but in the early 80’s it made sense in the context of his job being to troubleshoot the latest rocket engine test, not to do that “computer stuff” they already had a huge pool of low-level employees for.
Jokah Macpherson
April 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM