Lion of the Blogosphere

Chinese aircraft carrier!

with 63 comments

While aircraft carriers are sitting ducks against modern air forces, there aren’t that many modern air forces in the world. China can use its aircraft carrier for the same purpose that we use ours: for taking over crappy third-world countries!

* * *

And in other international news, the Washington Post reports that the Palestinians are pissed that the U.S. embassy has moved to Jerusalem, but fails to mention that there are no real-world negative consequences to this move. The Palestinians weren’t going to make peace with anybody anyway, and the rest of the Middle East doesn’t care as much as they pretend to. Saudi Arabia and the current Egyptian government love Trump, or at least don’t hate him the way they hated Obama. In the long run, Muslims respect power and not wishy-washiness and appeasement. Donald Trump, by showing the Muslims that we can move our embassies anywhere we want to and they can’t do anything about it, that helps us in the long run.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

May 13, 2018 at EDT am

Posted in International

63 Responses

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  1. The vessel is patterned after the Russian design, with the upward sloped flight deck. The US is not the global superpower it once was. Better we start acting like it.

    Clay

    May 13, 2018 at EDT am

  2. “China can use its aircraft carrier for the same purpose that we use ours: for taking over crappy third-world countries!”

    You seem to be downplaying this development.

    Crappy 3rd world countries are places we happen to be trawling about in. Anyway the Philippines isn’t a crappy 3rd world country – it’s a crucially important 3rd world country, a cornerstone of our trade routes since the late 19th century. We should have made it a state, the way we did Hawaii. But we didn’t, so whatever.

    As we speak, China really really is replacing us as the world’s dominant power. I can’t see anything that stops this. The only objections are ones I read in the usual old fashioned conservative nationalist websites: they are the only society in the world to grow old before they grow rich, etc., pollution, etc., oversupply of males, etc., – that all strikes me as special pleading.

    They are a giant power with many strengths. The biggest strength, as I see it, is that they don’t make excuses for themselves, the way we do, endlessly.

    Re: Jerusalem, “real world consequences” –

    Right.

    But China concerns me more. Talk about real world consequences.

    gothamette

    May 13, 2018 at EDT am

    • I’m not downplaying it, the aircraft carrier makes it a lot easier for China to take over third-world countries.

      • They’re already doing that in Africa and the Middle East … without firing a shot. Worse, they’re stealing our technology while we’re educating their best and brightest.

        Brendan

        May 13, 2018 at EDT am

      • But taking over third world countries is OUR job.

        gothamette

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Yes the Phillipines would have been a great addition to the US, just like that economic powerhouse Puerto Rico.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

      May 13, 2018 at EDT am

      • The Phillipines is about 35 times bigger than Puerto Rico both in land area and population. The U.S. would be a very different country if the Phillipines were included.

      • Annexing the Philippines would mean we’d have had a homegrown Muslim terrorism problem since the Roosevelt administration. Teddy.

        Richard

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • What would American power be w/o Hawaii?

        Thinking must hurt your pretty little head.

        gothamette

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I agree that the USA missed the boat with the Phillipines. But the way the US handled Hawaii and Puerto Rico were huge mistakes. They should have all three been annexed. I guess, the best plan would have been to roll them under America’s protective umbrella fr national security and foreign policy while they retained control of their own domestic affairs. But with special provisions to prevent migration in either direction. It would have been a win-win all the way around. I’ll bet there are a lot of countries around the world who would have gone for that deal.

        I’ve said this before and was disappointed to see a couple of people disagree — China, Iran and Russia are the three greatest threats to the US and the world. And, of the three, China is 10X more of a threat as the other two combined. Anyone who can’t see that should just stay quiet while the adults talk.

        destructure

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “The Phillipines is about 35 times bigger than Puerto Rico both in land area and population. The U.S. would be a very different country if the Phillipines were included.”

        Yes. The US would now be Filipino.

        Mike Street Station

        May 14, 2018 at EDT am

    • Neither China nor the Japanese have yet to invent anything truly groundbreaking. They will always be nipping at Anglo European heels in a reactionary manner. They get the atom bomb, we build a weapon to destroy the world with a push of a button, etc.

      The only concern is that America’s hunger for creativity may be dying from laziness and complacency. Then again the losers who need motivation will always be complacent anyway. The people who move the world are out there doing.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

      May 13, 2018 at EDT am

      • “Neither China nor the Japanese have yet to invent anything truly groundbreaking.”

        They invented video-tape recorders, which changed the way we watch TV! Very groundbreaking.

        Then they invented the Walkman which changed the way we listen to music.

      • Walkman wasn’t that much of an advance I think. VHS and helical scan tape recording in general though… that indeed was a technological breakthrough.
        Also the Nobel-prize-winning blue LED innovation has had a huge impact. Thanks Japan!

        http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29518521

        Steverino@steverino.com

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Japan (not China) was responsible for the VCR and the walkman, China hasn’t had much success in inventing anything in the past half a millennium. Lion has written previously about the paradox of how Chinese-Americans seem to plateau in the corporate world, where very few of them ever break into the ranks of CEOs, despite their dominance of the Ivy leagues. Couldn’t there be a similar phenomenon playing out in geopolitics where the sum total of China’s naval strength, may never add up to real world influence?

        Roli

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “America” never invented anything groundbreaking.

        gothamette

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Lion has written previously about the paradox of how Chinese-Americans seem to plateau in the corporate world, where very few of them ever break into the ranks of CEOs, despite their dominance of the Ivy leagues”

        Call it the bamboo complex. The bamboo in East Asian cultures signifies fair play. American CEOs are anything but fairness. The Chinese lack sociopathy and even fake empathy.

        JS

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “The Chinese lack sociopathy and even fake empathy.”

        If so, that speaks well for the Chinese!

      • “The Chinese lack sociopathy ”

        I’d say sociopathy seems to be their normal state, if you mean lying, cheating and stealing.

        Rosenmops

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • There seem to be a lot of very good classical musicians who are Chinese. But the music and instruments were created by Europeans.

        Rosenmops

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “The only concern is that America’s hunger for creativity may be dying from laziness and complacency”

        Or from the Hive-Mind effect which provides that group productivity is a function of group intelligence. It stands to reason that in lower functioning groups the energies and focus of the more intelligent members is diverted towards preservation of existing resources and away from expansion of resources. In other words, more effort goes into averting disasters initiated by the dumber members. You sense this with the more intelligent Africans forever fighting against the deleterious effects of superstitions instead of building productive enterprises. I’ve seen similar effects here in the workplace as we open the doors of cognitive work to people with non-degree degrees from places like Phoenix University. The upper level people spend more time putting out stupid fires.

        Curle

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “America” never invented anything groundbreaking.“

        An empire masquerading as a republic is a notable social invention.

        Curle

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “The Chinese lack sociopathy and even fake empathy.

        You’ve said some dumb things over the years. But that one deserves a special prize.
        ***
        ” ‘America’ never invented anything groundbreaking.”

        The biggest problem with listing all the groundbreaking things invented by Americans is that any list will be woefully inadequate because there’s so much. Just off the top of my head Americans invented light bulbs, telephone, television, microwave, transistors, integrated circuits, LEDs, lasers, compact discs, fiber optics, digital computer, mobile phones, GPS, email, internet, etc. Not to mention the concept of interchangeable parts and assembly lines. I also think airplanes were pretty groundbreaking.

        destructure

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Lion has written previously about the paradox of how Chinese-Americans seem to plateau in the corporate world, where very few of them ever break into the ranks of CEOs, despite their dominance of the Ivy leagues. Couldn’t there be a similar phenomenon playing out in geopolitics where the sum total of China’s naval strength, may never add up to real world influence?”

        In terms of geopolitics, China is probably the only relevant actor right now besides the US and Russia.

        The kind of ability that helps you become CEO in the US today probably isn’t the kind that helps you be a good team player. So it may be the opposite.

        Tom

        May 14, 2018 at EDT am

      • “Call it the bamboo complex. The bamboo in East Asian cultures signifies fair play. American CEOs are anything but fairness. The Chinese lack sociopathy and even fake empathy”

        Apparently agreeableness is highly correlated with career success in Japan, but negatively correlated with career success in the US:

        Tom

        May 14, 2018 at EDT am

      • I’ve worked with Chinese and other East Asians. In general, they’re too nice and agreeable to ascend the corporate hierarchy, at least in the US (apparently according to the study I linked above, being agreeable is what works over there). In the US, the “dark triad” traits help one succeed and ascend the corporate hierarchy, and they’re the opposite of agreeableness. It’s the ruthless sharks that succeed, like the Chads in this clip (Aaron Eckhart’s character’s name in the movie is actually Chad):

        Tom

        May 14, 2018 at EDT am

      • Those who ascend are super-agreeable except when they need to stab someone in the back.

      • ” Couldn’t there be a similar phenomenon playing out in geopolitics where the sum total of China’s naval strength, may never add up to real world influence?”

        Except the US and the West are currently falling like a rock. The Chinese only have to sit there and watch. We’ll leave the world to them.

        Mike Street Station

        May 14, 2018 at EDT am

    • Wrong. The Chinese one child policy has put them on a terminal trajectory. The communist party will be lucky to hold the country together over the next 20 years but they will never replace the US as a superpower. It’s simple demographics and math (which apparently the Chinese aren’t as good at as they’d like us to believe).

      Also, the Chinese military is almost entirely focused inward on keeping their people under control. The Japanese military is actually much stronger and capable because it’s 100% focused externally and is technologically ahead.

      Trendy

      May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • As if our demographics are so great?

        gothamette

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Re: “As if our demographics are so great?”

        Gothamette,
        Actually US demographics are amoung the best in the world (besides India) because we have a large millennial population, much larger that gen-x. The baby boomers will tank the economy as they transition from equities to safe investments and drain the government with their entitlements (gen-x will be heavily taxed) but the millennials then come to the rescue. China, Russia and Western Europe don’t have a large millennial population so they will be in for long-term trouble since their demographic pyramid is inverted. I know you like to predict US doom but the outlook is actually bright when you consider demographics, shale oil bringing energy independence, low transportation costs, military strength, food production (worlds bread basket) and the dollar being the worlds reserve currency. Chine will be lucky to exist in its current form another ten years.

        Trendy

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Yes, keeping up the inter generational ponzi scheme forever is clearly the best plan. As is keeping your currency artificially inflated so that you lose all your industry and become crippled with international debt.

        Magnavox

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Yeah the dumb Mexicans with 5 kids are going to work hard to Balance the budget instead of leeching off welfare.

        Do you liberals listen to how dumb you sound?

        Hbd investor

        May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Yes, keeping up the inter generational ponzi scheme forever is clearly the best plan.”

        Straw man argument since nobody here says that’s good policy.

        “As is keeping your currency artificially inflated so that you lose all your industry and become crippled with international debt.”

        Another straw man argument. The advantage of the US holding the world’s reserve currency is that US firms get easier access to capital because more companies and people using the dollar means more transactions provides liquidity for the dollar. Liquidity means that loans are more available. It’s part of the success of silicon valley.

        Trendy

        May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • You did say that the US was right to just keep expanding its population rather than dealing with the inevitable fiscal realities of intergenerational social spending.

        I’d rather the US devalued its currency and was able to sell things rather than sell itself into debt (what you call getting financing). Not that I even buy your argument that people holding the dollar somehow improves liquidity (which requires buying/selling, the opposite of holding) which somehow makes people more likely to loan to american companies.

        Magnavox

        May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Making the Phillipines a state would lead to a massive flood of low iq Filipinos to the us and would put millions more people on the welfare rolls

      Taking them over was a big mistake in the first place, it allowed many of these peasants to migrate to the us

      Hbd investor

      May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

  3. Carriers are not sitting ducks. They move in a huge strike group that screens for aircraft and submarines, and practically boils the water and air with radar and comms jamming power, and has multi-layer anti missile and torpedo defense systems. It’s all very complicated and will take China 20 years to figure out how to do. The Russians never really bothered to try, figuring that for their needs it would be a waste of money.

    People don’t get that China is sitting on a bad debt bomb. They have insane levels of non-performing domestic debt locked up in the state controlled banking system. They are busy doing state controlled boondoggle after boondoggle that will never pay off just to keep the game of musical chairs going. One of these years it’s going to blow up and all this “China next superpower” fear-mongering will look silly. China is also now rapidly running out of coal, which is critical to their economy, so they’re fucked on that front, too. The CCP will probably do something stupid and start a war in an attempt to distract from their domestic crisis so they can hold on to power by blaming outsiders. But all the “next super power” talk is delusional, IMHO. In the long run China will be a global power, but in the intermediate term there’s no way China goes another ten years without a major face-plant and political upheaval. It’s literally the exact same people who didn’t get that the USSR was a weakening basket case freaking out about China. These people also freaked out about Japanese superiority in the 80s, without getting that half the Japanese economy was a ponzi scheme at the time.

    bobbybobbob

    May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

  4. China has a successful capitalist economy that generates enormous resources for the government. It has an enormous trade surplus which enables it to accumulate overseas assets (such as Western tech companies) and acquire intellectual property. It has an authoritarian government that can devote enormous resources to the military etc without political pushback. It has a largely docile, patriotic and subservient people. But most of all, it has a population 4-5x that of the US! Of course US global influence is coming to an end.

    The lioncub

    May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

    • ” It has an enormous trade surplus which enables it to accumulate overseas assets”

      Including pretty much the entire city of Vancouver.

      Rosenmops

      May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

    • 70s saw the now proven irrational fear of Japanese success. 2 decades from now, our fear of Chinese success will be proven wrong.

      mpt

      May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Irrational fear they’d be successful at building a large but ultimately self-destructive competitor empire to compete against our large and self-destructive empire. Only back then we didn’t acknowledge we were such an empire and that such pursuits were ultimately disastrous to the host state.

        In the stuff that matters, planning for the future, they beat us hands down.

        Curle

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • China with Japanese per capita GDP would be something entirely different from Japan. Japan was also a vassal state of the US while China is self consciously seeking to avenge the mistreatment it felt it received from European powers and to supplant the US.

        Magnavox

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

    • It’s quality my friend, not quantity. Give me 10 lazy craft beer brewing millenials over a village of illiterate Chinese peasants any day.

      The creative spark is there to solve problems and that’s all that really matters once we put the mallot in their hands. Plus white people still seem to feel okay with being racist against Chinese so it will be easier to turn them against China.

      What’s funny is the MSM has brainwashed people into loving China, taker of jobs destroyer of environments. Daddy Trump will spank them good.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

      May 15, 2018 at EDT am

  5. As to Chinese creativity, please consider our STEM graduate schools. A majority of the MS and PhD candidates enrolled in those schools are foreign nationals, and most of those are Chinese. In some graduate programs, Chinese nationals are an absolute majority of the students.

    In graduate research programs, the graduate students, themselves, do the work under the supervision of their faculty advisor. If the student is very good, the supervision is light. Often, the graduate student is expected to write research proposals and submit them to the appropriate funding agency, which is usually federal.

    The students are not dumb oxen under the whip. They do much of the creative work. So, all the creation that occurs in American STEM programs has a student contribution, and in good institutions with really good students, the student is a major if not the main contributor of ideas and solutions. I had the pleasure of advising a couple of those. You just have to get out of their way.

    Foreign nationals usually go home and take their cutting edge skills and cutting edge knowledge with them. This jump starts science and engineering in their countries. For example, China now has more super computers than any other country in the world, including the two fastest. Those two computers are entirely home grown, using Chinese designed and manufactured chips and a Chinese developed operating system.

    The Type 001A, like the Liaoning, is primarily a learning project: learn how to build carriers, how to coordinate them with other ships, and how to launch and recover aircraft. However, it gives China two serviceable air craft carriers in a region where no one else has one. The next and follow on carriers will be Nimitz class. The keel is already laid for one of them.

    bob sykes

    May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “Foreign nationals usually go home and take their cutting edge skills and cutting edge knowledge with them.”

      No, they usually try to stay.

      And the culture of corruption and cheating that the Chinese grow up with has grave repercussions for science. If there are a lot of grad students from China in a lab people will be skeptical of what comes out of that lab,

      https://www.caixinglobal.com/2017-04-24/101082452.html

      Rosenmops

      May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Chinese can learn the same stuff in China, probably better. They try to get graduate degrees in the U.S. because it’s a backdoor to getting a permanent visa of some kind.

  6. Don’t worry. It is built of Chinese steal. It will be a rust bucket in a few years.

    Rosenmops

    May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

  7. If China becomes the world’s dominant power, it won’t be because they overtook us per se. It’ll be because we allowed ourselves to be overrun by 3rd world immigration, and the consequences that follow: a dumbed down population, ethnic friction, corruption both private and public, and eventually a day of reckoning for our financial system. Because Japan has chosen not to emulate our example, they will still be a world power 50 years from now, and will still be recognizably Japanese. We will be neither a world power, nor recognizably American.

    Sgt. Joe Friday

    May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

  8. Remember when American aircraft carriers allowed us to take over North Korea, North and South Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and now all those countries are totally subdued American vassal states? Chinese aircraft carriers will be just like that.

    Tarl

    May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Chinese won’t be wusses about brutally putting down any opposition, and won’t be trying to turn shithole countries into Democracy.

      • Here I agree with you. Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq all would have gone quite differently if the US didn’t decide to unilaterally abide by the Geneva conventions while fighting guerillas.

        Magnavox

        May 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • US soldiers don’t have it in them to be monsters. These are honorable men you speak of.

        Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

        May 15, 2018 at EDT am

      • Then we all agree that China will be more successful at taking over third-world countries than the U.S. has been.

      • The Soviets weren’t wusses in Afghanistan, and they still lost. “Just add brutality” is not the recipe for victory against insurgencies. (Perhaps the problem was they didn’t have enough aircraft carriers…)

        Tarl

        May 20, 2018 at EDT pm

    • The reason we didn’t take over North Korea and Vietnam was China, specifically the Chinese infantry. The Chinese army intervened during the Korean War, and during Vietnam we were worried about another Chinese intervention, which is partly why we didn’t pursue the war to a greater degree.

      Tom

      May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Which just further supports the view that “having aircraft carriers” is not, itself, enough to let you take over shitty countries at will.

        Tarl

        May 20, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I agree that aircraft carriers are no good against landlocked countries like Afghanistan.

        However, the Soviets had no problem TAKING OVER Afghanistan, the problem was in pacifying the place. And that was because the United States was supplying arms to the Muslim crazies.

  9. “China hasn’t invented anything in millennia” some poster said. It is because of civilization. Civilization grounds out alphas over time. Civilization is bad if you care about progress technologically even though a lot of tech needs the industrial system in the first place! Also, nerds can’t get their dicks wet when everyone has to live in cities. When everyone lived in village the nerds could have wives and produce smart sons, sometimes smart sons who invent the next big thing. Civilization is bad for everyone.

    Gigachad

    May 14, 2018 at EDT am

  10. Check out how much smog and air pollution there is in the background of that picture. China is filthy.

    Mountain top

    May 14, 2018 at EDT am

  11. As there are limits to technology, our lead over China can’t continue forever. Eventually, all armies and navies will be the same. Then what?

    raoulduke2767

    May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

    • There will be a status competation. Whos military can be the gayest. We’re in the lead!

      666 goat 666

      May 14, 2018 at EDT pm

    • There are no limits to technology, the problem is progress has a huge luck component.

      We are extremely lucky Einstein pieces together relativity or a guy like Andrew Wiles comes along and solves an impossible problem. It’s not simply a matter of grinding or genius. You have to see a pattern that is one in a million or maybe even a trillion. How many people have the intelligence to execute on those patterns? Maybe 100,000 on the whole planet… 5 sigma IQ with a mean of 100 assuming a population of about 2 billion (Eurosphere + China and Japan, the other countries are rounding errors in this excercise).

      6/10000 (5 sigma probability) * 2 billion = 600,000

      600,000 x pattern that is 1/10^15 = 1/60,000,000,000.

      You could add the probability a 4 sigma IQ makes the same contribution but then the probability of them imagining a ground breaking world changing pattern is lower. So all in all you are talking about events that are as infrequent as cosmological events.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

      May 15, 2018 at EDT am


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