Lion of the Blogosphere

The unaffordability of housing and Michael Rotondo

Commenter tmmm says: “In most of the world, including Southern Europe, it is totally normal to live with your parents when you are 30. So I don’t get what’s the big deal about this.”

That’s another aspect of the CNN interview with Michael Rotondo that irked me. The popular girl anchor didn’t just diss Michael Rotondo personally for being lazy, she dissed every single male in the entire country who lives with his parents.

“Don’t you know how much it sucks living with your parents? You’re not a real man. Don’t you want to be a real man?” Those weren’t her exact words but that’s what she mean.

The commenter is correct that this is a uniquely American ideal. I remember fifteen years ago talking to an Indian man complaining that his daughter didn’t live at home. “Why is she wasting her money on rent when she could live at my house for free? What is wrong with this country that Americans want to do that?”

What has changed during the last several decades is the increasing unaffordability of housing. My parents could NEVER afford to buy the house they live in now with the salary (even adjusted for inflation) they had when they were still working. And I think this is a common situation among white prole and middle-class America. The parents have a big spacious house they bought when prices were low, and they only thing available to their children, without parental monetary support, is some really crappy rental in a bad neighborhood. Unless the children are the lucky few with high-paying careers at an early stage in their life. Sure, Michael Rotondo is a loser, but there are a LOT of losers, he’s nothing special. Maybe he’s lazier than the average loser, but that also isn’t special. There are millions of worse losers in this country that the popular-girl CNN anchor could be dissing on instead.

The system can encourage laziness. At least, by not working, he gets Medicaid, which is a lot better than Obamacare. What’s the point of working at a dead-end job he hates so he can move out and live in a crappy apartment in a bad neighborhood? The answer from the pro-work people is that a job, any job, eventually leads to higher paying jobs, but I don’t think that’s a realistic prediction. Working at Best Buy doesn’t lead to better career opportunities, it’s dead end forever. Actually, even worse, it’s only dead end until Best Buy gets put out of it’s brick and mortar misery by online competition. Living at home, he may enjoy computer games, streaming television and movies, etc., with his free time.

* * *

http://cnycentral.com/news/local/classmate-remembers-rotondo-seeing-him-now-its-just-very-strange

Interview with former classmate:

A classmate of Rotondo for years, Pryor said she barely recognized the 30-year-old in court fighting to stay under his parent’s roof.

“He was a very smart kid. kind of kept to himself,” Pryor said.

She points out a picture of Rotondo with short hair saying he was a nice guy with a good sense of humor.

“He could be dealing with social anxiety or very severe depression, and maybe he’s just not feeling motivated to do anything,” Pryor said.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

May 24, 2018 at 1:18 PM

Posted in Labor Markets

129 Responses

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  1. Quintessential Hajnal line. Northwestern Europeans are expected to move out on their own. Not so much in Southern and Eastern Europe.

    JayMan

    May 24, 2018 at 1:41 PM

    • Northwestern Europe also had lower population density, and in the case of Britain, large continent sized New World and Australasian landmasses.

      Tom

      May 24, 2018 at 1:52 PM

  2. America ensures double standards are apply to it sheepish, one dimensional women.

    It’s really a sinister set up by more powerful, wealthier men where there is less competition from other men.

    Or one can call it greed.

    The entire nation rots.

    And speaking of prestigious value transference jobs, it’s more difficult than ever to land employment with a prestigious firm when you get more strivers than ever.

    I’d assume getting a job at Best Buys isn’t easy either, plenty of NAMs are giving preference over White males.

    JS

    May 24, 2018 at 1:52 PM

  3. Housing affordability crisis. Main cause? Immigration, immigration, immigration, immigration. Fake stream media won’t touch this. Up to us.

    Daniel

    May 24, 2018 at 2:05 PM

    • Theres loads of cheap housing it’s just who you have to live around. Early on I was hoping that Trump would start pushing for housing reform since he’s spent his whole life in real estate. But lord know that was stupid of me.

      Magnavox

      May 24, 2018 at 2:34 PM

    • Then there’s plenty of women in the workplace who lives in NYC looking for Mr. ATM.

      JS

      May 24, 2018 at 2:45 PM

    • Please. Can people here just do a little research before they speak? You can get a 3 BR house in the Syracuse area for $750.

      https://syracuse.craigslist.org/apa/d/nice-three-bedroom/6598076465.html

      Housing and cost of living are dirt cheap in Upstate NY, outside of tony areas like Woodstock or Amenia.

      gothamette

      May 24, 2018 at 3:31 PM

      • Can you get a well paying job in a dilapidated area like Syracuse? It has one of the worse economies in the country.

        JS

        May 24, 2018 at 3:48 PM

      • JS. He is old enough to move his ass out to where the jobs are. People do that all around the world. Come to USA to make money. I am the opposite of that JS poster. I think USA is absolutely the best country in the world. So many opportunities to make lots of money.

        mpt

        May 24, 2018 at 6:34 PM

      • Roommates.

        Mrs Stitch

        May 24, 2018 at 6:37 PM

      • The average middling income Americans are making money to do what?

        Are they working hard so they can cram more things into their living space?

        JS

        May 24, 2018 at 8:39 PM

      • Yes.

        gothamette

        May 25, 2018 at 9:31 AM

      • That’s an odd way of describing that ad. It’s a 3 bedroom apartment for $750 per month rent. You make it sound like it’s a 3 bedroom house for sale for $750.

        Hermes

        May 24, 2018 at 11:13 PM

      • Point taken, I skimmed.

        Still, a 3 BR for $750?

        gothamette

        May 25, 2018 at 9:31 AM

      • Obviously it’s in the black part of town.

      • I didn’t look into it closely but I can tell you from personal experience that most of upstate NY is white and there is abundant housing, cheap.

        gothamette

        May 25, 2018 at 2:01 PM

      • Rural upstate NY is very white, but in Syracuse there’s a pocket of blackness.

      • The ad says it’s in Little Italy, though I suppose it’s possible Syracuse’s Little Italy has undergone guido flight.

        Hermes

        May 25, 2018 at 10:17 AM

      • The “Northside” neighborhood of Syracuse where its Little Italy is located is minority white. The NY Times race map shows that there are a lot of “Asians” there (in addition to a lot of blacks), but I suspect they are Muslim “Asians” from Pakistan and not the good kind of Asians.

        “The North Side, once full of Italian and German immigrants, is increasingly home to new Americans who are refugees from countries where Islam is the dominant religion.” http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2015/08/from_church_to_mosque_syracuse_islamic_group_cuts_crosses_tries_to_connect_to_ne.html

      • The great Muslim sociologist Ibn Khaldun describes a cycle of civilization like this.

        Nomads become sedentary creators and then succumbs to slothfulness and hedonism, where savages are imported to maintain their lifestyle, eventually civilizing themselves to replace those who invited them.

        I swear to god our elites are a well read bunch.

        JS

        May 25, 2018 at 1:52 PM

      • “From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations.” Or something like that.

        gothamette

        May 25, 2018 at 2:03 PM

  4. There’s a paradox and inter-generational conflict at work here because the wealth of Baby Boomers, older Americans, and most regular Americans in general, is so tied to real estate wealth. Real estate wealth by definition means high real estate prices. And high real estate prices means that housing is less affordable for young people. Making housing more affordable to young people would require lower real estate prices and thus would make older people less wealthy and many of them destitute.

    Tom

    May 24, 2018 at 2:05 PM

    • The idea that high real estate values are good for a society is total nonsense. It absolutely pits the interests of old people against society at large, and it’s a disgrace that they’ve been allowed to win out.

      Magnavox

      May 24, 2018 at 2:35 PM

      • America is all about profit or capitalism if you will. At the moment, high IQ capitalists are able to profit from the inner cities taken up by low IQ NAMs by ensuring their disinvestment and then build something new in a nearby area, and then call it gentrification.

        America = Oppress the stupid people and profit from the strivers.

        JS

        May 24, 2018 at 3:39 PM

      • As usual you managed to misunderstand what someone else said. Tom was explaining, not defending.

        Anyway, you can buy a house dirt cheap in the Syracuse area.

        gothamette

        May 24, 2018 at 3:40 PM

      • Where houses are dirt cheap, there is usually a complete lack of career opportunities.

        And even in Syracuse, I don’t think he can rent something for less than 50% of his take-home pay from a minimum-wage job. Plus he needs to pay for a car to drive to work. It barely pays for him to work instead of live rent-free with his parents.

        The houses where the prices seem so low it’s too good to be true are in the black neighborhoods of Syracuse. Houses in good neighborhoods cost at least $100,000, a bargain compared to the NYC area, but it’s $100,000 that guy doesn’t have.

        Maybe if he got a minimum wage job, and his parents gave him $20K for a down payment, he could buy a house.

      • “Where houses are dirt cheap, there is usually a complete lack of career opportunities.”

        Nope. Not true at all. There are hospitals, universities, and the state. Relatives of mine work for the state, live in the Albany area, own land, are out of the rat race and are very happy. They own land, horses & therapy dogs, have large gardens where they raise produce, which they sell in farmers markets, and live very full lives.

        Lion, you have a very skewed perspective.

        gothamette

        May 24, 2018 at 8:00 PM

      • Syracuse is the snowiest big city in America:

        http://www.syracuse.com/weather/index.ssf/2016/03/syracuse_a_snowfall_underachiever_this_year_but_still_tops_in_us.html

        Also, as Lion says, I don’t think there’s much work there.

        That’s probably why the rent is cheap.

        Tom

        May 24, 2018 at 3:54 PM

      • Syracuse is also 30% black:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse,_New_York#Demographics

        Those cheap places are probably black areas.

        So you get a ton of snow and lots of blacks. Usually, you have one or the other: lots of snow, few blacks, or many blacks, little snow. But Syracuse manages to have them both.

        Tom

        May 24, 2018 at 3:57 PM

      • There used to be factories there, and the factory owners encouraged blacks to move there to work in the factories. Now the factories are gone. It’s a classic rustbelt city.

      • I was agreeing with Tom. So you misunderstood me, ironically enough.

        Magnavox

        May 24, 2018 at 4:47 PM

      • “Nope. Not true at all. There are hospitals, universities, and the state. Relatives of mine work for the state, live in the Albany area, own land, are out of the rat race and are very happy. They own land, horses & therapy dogs, have large gardens where they raise produce, which they sell in farmers markets, and live very full lives.”

        There’s Syracuse U, SUNY, hospitals, and the government. That’s actually not a lot of career opportunities, especially for men. Besides the professors and doctors, which are jobs that are hard to get and restricted in number, you have nursing and admin jobs, which are dominated by women.

        Horse farms are notorious money pits. And small scale farming and selling to farmers markets doesn’t bring much income either. It’s more of a hobby or leisure activity for people with some means than a viable enterprise for young men.

        Tom

        May 24, 2018 at 10:47 PM

      • Cleveland, OH is another city with a lot of snow and a lot of blacks.

        Hermes

        May 24, 2018 at 11:14 PM

      • Lockheed Martin has a plant in the Syracuse area. Look up Onondaga County major employers.

        gothamette

        May 25, 2018 at 9:36 AM

      • Looking it up, I see that during the last 10 years, Lockheed Martin has laid off more people than it has hired. Although they did announce in January that that they are hiring again, Mr. Rotundo isn’t qualified for any of those jobs. No one wants to hire a loser whose only job experience for the last 10 years was a job at Best Buy that he couldn’t keep.

      • “Mr. Rotundo isn’t qualified for any of those jobs. No one wants to hire a loser whose only job experience for the last 10 years was a job at Best Buy that he couldn’t keep.”

        My sentiments exactly, Lion. He’s the loser. You are blaming his environment’s lack of prospects and opportunities, which is a pretty weird thing for Mr. HBD to do.

        gothamette

        May 25, 2018 at 2:02 PM

      • He probably wouldn’t have wound up a loser in the 1950s.

    • Not really. There are only a few liberal centers where white collar jobs are and the surrounding amenities include housing which is expensive.

      Note that most millennial women hate men who are blue collar.

      JS

      May 24, 2018 at 2:51 PM

      • Get a government job.

        Daniel

        May 24, 2018 at 11:40 PM

      • @Daniel,

        Have you been watching Yegor the Russian on Youtube?

        gothamette

        May 25, 2018 at 2:03 PM

  5. The answer from the pro-work people is that a job, any job, eventually leads to higher paying jobs, but I don’t think that’s a realistic prediction. Working at Best Buy doesn’t lead to better career opportunities, it’s dead end forever.

    That’s not strictly true. If you get a degree while working, you can move up into management pretty quickly. My sister worked at Abercrombie and Fitch or Hollister or whatever it was in college. Post-graduation, she became a manager, starting around $40k, I think. If she’d stuck it out, she could have moved up the chain towards $80-100k over the next 5-10 years.

    Another family friend just became manager at a fast food place and is doing well enough to buy a house with his wife (who also works).

    Of course, the hours suck, the pressure is nonstop, and customer service isn’t a self-actualizing pursuit.

    • **To be fair, the California fast food chain I mentioned is famous for being privately owned by Christians and for paying its employees very well.

      • You’re talking about In-N-Out, aren’t you?

        Sgt. Joe Friday

        May 24, 2018 at 7:40 PM

    • At the Major Home Improvement Retailer where I have my second job, store managers and assistant managers usually get promoted from the ranks. And they get paid well too: assistant managers average about $65,000 to $70,000 per year depending on store performance (albeit that’s for 55+ hour workweeks), while store managers can be in the six figures. Of course there are some downsides too. Very few rank-and-file workers get promoted to management. The pay for non-managerial workers totally sucks, after 4+ years I make less than the starting wage at area McDonald’s, and even department heads are lucky to get $17 an hour. Maybe worst of all, assistant managers and store managers have less long-term job security than Arab suicide bombers, they’re constantly getting canned.

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      May 24, 2018 at 7:54 PM

      • Michael Rotondo probably doesn’t have the right personality to get promoted at a retail chain.

      • I’m in each of the two Major Home Improvement Retailers near me two or three times a week. Most of the rank-and-file are excellent (but I’ve noticed a slight decline over the past few years). I’ve sometimes talked to them about their jobs, which they seem to like and appreciate. They tell me the Retailer strictly limits the no. of hours worked to under 40 per week. Many of the rank-and-file want full-time and the health benefits but accept the fact that they’ll never get full-time.

        E. Rekshun

        May 25, 2018 at 6:05 AM

      • “They tell me the [Major Home Improvement] Retailer strictly limits the no. of hours worked to under 40 per week. Many of the rank-and-file want full-time and the health benefits but accept the fact that they’ll never get full-time.”

        Thirty-two hours is the full time/part time limit. As that’s averaged over a calendar quarter, part timers can occasionally get 32+ hours in a week without automatically going to full time status and becoming entitled to health insurance. This isn’t unusual in the busy spring season and right before Christmas.

        My best estimate is that maybe 25% of part timers would like to get full time status, while the remaining 75% (including me) can only do part time because they have other jobs or go to school.

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        May 25, 2018 at 9:29 AM

      • Why do you work at this crappy job?

      • In FL, the two Major Home Improvement Retailers have been on a non-stop tear since five days before Hurricane Irma last September.

        E. Rekshun

        May 25, 2018 at 5:36 PM

      • @ E. Rekshun

        I have both in close proximity, but I always go to blue and never go to orange. Do you have a preference?

        ScarletNumber

        May 26, 2018 at 11:08 AM

      • @Scarlet: Do you have a preference?

        No, not really. I do like Orange on-line interface and search feature better, By my Blue physical store is in slightly better condition. Customer service at both is equivalent and pretty good.

        E. Rekshun

        May 26, 2018 at 9:06 PM

  6. CNN reporter is a nasty bitch. Her smirk is annoying, as is her racial ambiguity (which is probably why she was hired). More and more on TV you see people who are racially ambiguous.

    I don’t know what’s going on with Michael Rotondo–maybe some sort of mental illness. I feel bad for him. The parents must be cold and heartless unless their son is causing a lot of problems such as trashing the place, taking drugs, stealing their stuff, or something like that.

    Rosenmops

    May 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM

    • He has a kid out of wedlock, where getting a job and moving out might force him to pay child support, something to that effect.

      Of course, he’s prole like many others who live in our ugly cities that are out of money.

      JS

      May 25, 2018 at 12:43 AM

  7. Come to the southeast.

    Make six figures under 30 with a decent corporate job, buy any house you want within a reasonable commuting distance.

    Kaz

    May 24, 2018 at 2:39 PM

  8. And what about his parents? I think they are much bigger losers by taking their son to the court than the guy itself.

    tmmm

    May 24, 2018 at 2:45 PM

    • He allegedly has a child out of wedlock. There’s something going on that we don’t know about.

      JS

      May 24, 2018 at 6:19 PM

  9. You gotta think out of the box for a white guy. Remember, first comes Darwin i. e. survival of the fittest. The current situation favors the rich, the ‘poor’, the immigrants both legal and illegal and an honest working person is doomed to extinction. Remember, on the evolutionary level there is no honest and dishonest, fair and unfair, cruel and kind. There is only survival and procreation, passing your genetic code to the future generations. This is the level on which one should be operating. This is my formula.

    Yesterday after work I fixed an electrical short in 20 minutes and took $275. I paid 0 taxes on my earning and made it to yoga. This is Darwin and is not to be approached with a usual moral compass, which simply doesn’t apply on this level.

    I’m very tanned from working on the roof in open air and when people comment on it, I reply that I’ve found my place under the sun. Indeed.

    Yakov

    May 24, 2018 at 3:03 PM

    • Yakov,
      The countries in the West work (or they did until fairly recently) on a high-trust, low-corruption basis. We pay tax because we know everyone else pays tax and we know the government will spend the tax on roads and police and fire station–stuff that benefits everyone. Of course the system is not perfect. But compared to a highly corrupt countris where everyone tries to avoid paying tax because they know the tax money will be stolen and wasted, it works pretty well. That is why Western countries are generally more pleasant places to live in.

      But as more and more people from corrupt countries move to the West and start doing corrupt stuff, will the West degenerate into the sort of corrupt countries the immigrants come from? This is my greatest fear.

      For some reason a high-trust, low corruption culture arose in northern Europe–the Protestant countries of northern Europe. Nowhere else in the world did this culture arise. It is this culture of high-trust and low corruption that makes northern Europe and its colonies that adopted this culture, the best places to live. If this culture is lost then the whole world turns into a corrupt cesspit. For how much longer will this culture withstand massive immigration from highly corrupt places such as China, India and Latin America? It is like we are in a little, non-corrupt life-boat and we are being swamped.

      Most people don’t understand how tremendously important low corruption and high trust are. It is these that have made the West prosperous and pleasant–not stealing stuff from brown people in India and Africa (a theory I read a lot on reddit).

      Look at the map at Transparency International:

      https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017

      Rosenmops

      May 24, 2018 at 3:38 PM

      • It’s an Anglo-Saxon-Germanic trait. PLUS a Japanese trait!

      • Japan is actually somewhat corrupt. It’s present relatively uncorrupt state maybe due to Americans running things there for awhile after WW2. Singapore and Hong Kong also are quite non-corrupt. But they were British colonies. They didn’t become populated with British people, but the native leaders were smart enough to see the benefit of low corruption, especially in Singapore.

        Rosenmops

        May 24, 2018 at 3:59 PM

      • True. The trust of the Anglo Saxon world has turned into naïveté and is ruining us. We cannot let everybody through the gates. Time to raise the drawbridge.

        B.T.D.T.

        May 24, 2018 at 4:04 PM

      • Low corruption in the good ole USA. Arthur Anderson, Worldcom, Enron, Rating agencies slapping AAA rating on trash. Its foreigners that crashed the economy in 2007. Got it. Anything else?

        mpt

        May 24, 2018 at 6:12 PM

      • If what you say is true, tax evasion wouldn’t be so heavily prosecuted with violent state force and power.

        America was founded on tax evasion. Many Western countries and changes were based on tax resistance:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tax_resistance

        “Many rebellions and revolutions have been prompted by resentment of taxation or had tax refusal as a component. Examples of historic events that originated as tax revolts include the Magna Carta, the American Revolution, and the French Revolution.[1]”

        Yakov embodies the American Revolutionary spirit by evading taxes.

        The greatest corruption is for citizens to go against their consciences and pay taxes to a government they regard as evil and corrupt. The government knows this, which is why they send people with guns after people who don’t pay taxes and throws them in jail.

        There’s no evidence that the countries in the West work on a high-trust, low-corruption basis. “High trust, low corruption” has also entailed social decay, degeneracy, decline of patriarchy, feminism, homosexuality, weakness, etc. America was much healthier, stronger, vigorous, virile, and vital when Americans evaded taxes more and were willing to shoot Brits to evade taxes.

        Tom

        May 24, 2018 at 6:16 PM

      • Is high trust an evolutionary advantage, because it’s the only thing that ultimately matters? These high trust people are being replaced by the foreigners without being given a choice in the matter by the governments that these stupid people had elected. I think high trust is the undoing of these poor people, who’d elected traitors and their own enemies into positions of power.

        A little creature, which is what we all are, should first win the evolutionary battle himself. Governments, politics, morals, etc. all come afterwards. If the government policies result in your inability to have a family, a house, an education and a job, who cares about the government or the laws? You think the Congress cares? No way! They manipulate the law to suite themselves, the spit at the people and the people should impale them. I’ve made made my money, go to yoga now and at 10 pm got a job. Easy money, gonna pick up $125 for a 15 min job. This is evolution, this is Darwin.

        Yakov

        May 24, 2018 at 7:55 PM

      • The high-trust, low-corruption method only works if almost everybody signs on to it, which will probably only happen in a homogeneous society–the type of societies northern Europe were before immigration started. So if the new immigrants from corrupt places don’t get with the program, and there a lot of them, everything goes to hell. And I suppose that is what is happening.

        For example there are a very large number of multi million dollar homes in Vancouver that are owned by Chinese people who claim to live living below the poverty level. These people are not reporting global income. These people don’t pay tax. The white people, such as are left in the city, are still paying tax. The Chinese people are taking full advantage of all the schools, universities and free health care that the taxes support. As more and more Chinese replace the tax paying people, something has to give somewhere.

        This is what my grandchildren have to look forward too.

        Rosenmops

        May 24, 2018 at 8:58 PM

      • Those Chinese aren’t reporting income made in China or some other jurisdiction. That’s basically what wealthy Americans and American corporations do by using tax havens and shelters around the world. By using these offshore tax havens, they don’t report income in the US.

        https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/6/16614158/apple-jersey-offshore-tax-shelter-ireland

        It’s the high trust, low corruption British and British descended people who are setting up and using these tax havens in the Isle of Jersey, the British Virgin Islands, the Caymans, etc. for people to avoid paying taxes around the world. The high trust, low corruption Canadian government is following suit and using Canadian real estate as a tax haven for wealthy Chinese.

        Being high trust, low corruption means subverting the sovereignty of foreign jurisdictions and depriving them of tax revenue, and screwing your own citizens in the process.

        Tom

        May 24, 2018 at 11:03 PM

      • Well the high-trust, low corruption culture worked very well for a time–for long enough to bring about the industrial revolution, to colonize North America, Australia and New Zealand. The basically bring about the modern world. Maybe America rejected parts of it and went its own way, but until recently the culture in northern states was quite similar to Canada. In Canada itself, we have Quebec, which is the most corrupt province.

        In this day of mass immigration and globalization we can only hope and pray that the whole world doesn’t become a uniformly corrupt cesspit. Corrupt countries are generally not good to live in.

        Rosenmops

        May 25, 2018 at 2:12 PM

      • Northern Europeans are wealthier than Southern Europeans so it appears, and this has been a recent phenomenon.

        Rankings show otherwise. The GDP of France, Spain and Italy aren’t too far off from the sh!tty UK.

        Mediterranean supremacists who dabble with wealth and productive measures, will tell you that the high trust, low corruption, Nordic nations were dirt poor before they adopted socialism.

        JS

        May 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM

      • Yes, French Canadians are more corrupt than their Anglophone neighbors.

        Yet, somehow, the beauty of Québec, and its progressive culture, overrides the more conservative, boring, less corrupt blah blah of the English speaking Canadians and their American neighbors.

        Furthermore, I’ve seen many MGTOW types (A manosphere term for low status, Anglo Prole men who are seeking female companionship outside of their cesspits) in Québec.

        JS

        May 26, 2018 at 8:51 AM

    • This can all very well be true but I’m living here and now.

      Yakov

      May 24, 2018 at 5:04 PM

  10. The guy probably has high IQ, but is very low on the personality trait of conscientiousness.

    JRM

    May 24, 2018 at 3:36 PM

  11. I think you’re kind of misunderstanding this story, or at least understanding it differently than I do. You keep analyzing why Michael Rotondo might want to keep living in his parents’ house — because of his low-paying job options, or the massive expense of nice housing elsewhere, etc. Those things are true, but the point of this story is that his parents want him out, for whatever reason(s). It’s their house, not his, and they can decide who lives there, despite the obscure legal precedents their son seems to be trying to rely on. I agree it’s unseemly for his parents to so publicly make a thing out of it; maybe they think that by publicly shaming him they are in fact helping him. Or maybe they’re just mean and crazy, and maybe they gave their son some of their mean and crazy genes, which might explain why he’s a high-IQ / low-conscientiousness misfit. Ultimately we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors; they might be psychotically cruel to him, or he might be psychotically cruel to them, etc. And just imagine that someone was living in your house whom you didn’t want there. and when you tried to kick that person out, everyone said you were heartless and cold. Blood is indeed thicker than water, but sometimes reasonableness trumps family ties.

    FairBear

    May 24, 2018 at 3:53 PM

    • “high-IQ ” I would say slightly above average in intelligence, but not high IQ.

    • “It’s their house, not his, and they can decide who lives there”

      The judge agrees with you!

      However, what started me on these posts today was how the girl on CNN dissed the guy on national TV.

    • > obscure legal precedents

      LOL. Whatever you personally think of tenants’ rights, they are hardly obscure.

      ScarletNumber

      May 26, 2018 at 11:10 AM

  12. The worst thing about being poor in present-day America is not material privation. The worst part about being poor in today’s America is having to live around lots of other poor people.

    Oswald Spengler

    May 24, 2018 at 4:31 PM

    • How is that a problem? That’s the natural order of things.

      mpt

      May 24, 2018 at 6:07 PM

    • How do people maintain their sanity living in the suburbs in the middle of nowhere long term?

      JS

      May 24, 2018 at 6:22 PM

  13. My brother lived at home until he was 37, but he helped my parents with a lot of things (my father in particular didn’t want to see him leave), and was working steadily from the time he graduated from college (Williams). He eventually became an executive vice president at the company he worked for, and retired before he was fifty into the big house he’d bought in exurbia with all the money he saved. Eccentric, yes. Loser, no.

    Mister Triple 800

    May 24, 2018 at 4:47 PM

  14. Harvey Weinstein, who doesn’t read your blog, fails in battle with NRA.

    snorlaxwp

    May 24, 2018 at 4:48 PM

    • Harvey Weinstein has been arrested by the NYPD, with a voluntary walk-in to the police station.

      Apparently, he buys books from the Strandbookstore. The price label on the back of the book which he is holding proves it.

      JS

      May 25, 2018 at 8:13 AM

  15. The obvious rejoinder to the outraged reporter is to ask how many of her friends who don’t live with their parents receive cash subsidies or have condos purchased or them. In the early 2000’s, I was talking to a florist in Berkeley, to whom students would confide their affairs. He said it was routine for parents to actually buy a condo or four pled for their kid, rent out the extra rooms, then sell at a lrofit upon graduation. Doubtless this pattern continued at the location where the kid went to work.

    vipltd

    May 24, 2018 at 4:53 PM

  16. “What has changed during the last several decades is the increasing unaffordability of housing.”

    It the most desirable urban areas, yes. But that’s been true since at least the 1980s (I can’t remember anything before about 1980).

    Houses were very affordable 2011 to 2012 at the very bottom of the Great Deflation that began late 2007. 2011/2012 interest rates were incredible, like 3.5% on a 30-year term; banks were practically giving away money.

    Anybody with an IQ supra 120 and a bachelor’s degree knew the 2002-2007 inflation was an unsustainable bubble (25% year-over-year asset inflation is fake). I sure did — I saved like crazy during those years so I could buy a house on the cheap after the bubble popped.

    Only fools were ruined by the Great Deflation of 2007-2011, and so the same fools couldn’t take advantage of the 2011-2012 real estate trough.

    hard9bf

    May 24, 2018 at 5:11 PM

    • > Houses were very affordable 2011 to 2012

      Houses corrected to historical norms. They were not particularly cheap. Interest rates were very low, though.

      Houses are right back up in bubble territory again by historical measures. In the next deflation it’s not unlikely that your property will be below your 2011 entry point in nominal terms.

      bobbybobbob

      May 24, 2018 at 7:12 PM

      • We bought a house in a region very sensitive to real estate booms and busts for $165K back in 2001. By 2005 we could have sold it for $340K but I was still working and we had a low mortgage payment, so we didn’t need to and we stayed on. At the bottom of the collapse we weren’t underwater but had minuscule equity in a house worth about $115K. Today it’s back up to around $270K.

        In 2005 it was indeed in bubble territory, but if you measure from 2001 to the present you get a compound appreciation rate of 3.15% over that period, and that is hardly a bubble now.

        sestamibi

        May 24, 2018 at 10:58 PM

    • Not just fools. Deflation can be hard to time. The current fake reflation has lasted ten years. Enough time to ruin the prime years of a generation. Waiting isn’t always an option if you want to live life.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

      May 24, 2018 at 7:52 PM

  17. Living at home till you’re 30 is one thing, but not working or saving up for a down payment on a home of your own is unforgivable. Basically, he’s a lazy fucker who wants to be a bum.

    Brendan

    May 24, 2018 at 6:14 PM

  18. lion, you all but accuse parents not sending their children to ivy league of neglect. Here you have a man deliberately remaining unemployed and in poverty to save on legal fees for the visitation rights he lost (likely for good reason). And you’re sympathetic toward him? What are the chances his son will attend yale at this rate?

    I agree adult men living with their parents are not de facto losers but this is the wrong person to serve as your standard bearer.

    toomanymice

    May 24, 2018 at 6:20 PM

  19. Literally only about 1% of the work force is needed to physically build homes, and even this is inflated by the insane real estate culture of neoliberal economies (and the American McMansion ideal), but people pay far more than 1% of their income on housing. Housing costs have been sterilizing the West and Westernized nations for a couple generations now and no politicians anywhere have ever done anything about it. This is why we need a king who can just seize all rents and reset everything.

    Anonymous Fake

    May 24, 2018 at 6:28 PM

  20. I’ve witnessed a lot of situations like this, and they happened during good economic times and bad, and during times of cheap rent. I rented cheap myself and kept my eye on the market.

    Fact is, if a guy doesn’t start working early, pay dues flipping burgers when a teen, and pick up what education he needs to move up, well, he may never get going. At least when you’re working you’re talking to people, hearing things, making connections.

    I suspect this guy never really got going when he should have.

    And don’t forget, his parents wanted him the hell outta there. That’s dispositive IMO.

    Mrs Stitch

    May 24, 2018 at 6:35 PM

  21. In 1960, the average home price was around 2.5 times the average annual salary.

    It’s far more expensive nowadays to buy even an average house. The cost of insurance and transport has also increased far faster then wages.

    Jew613

    May 24, 2018 at 6:51 PM

    • At the same time, stuff like TV and videogames have become so cheap you don’t need a job to afford them.

      • What is the monetary value of a broadband Internet connection?

        If you have Internet access, you have at your disposal a complete repository of the greatest cultural achievements of man. You have all of Shakespeare’s words, all of Mozart’s notes, all of da Vinci’s strokes.

        You also have access to a vast slush pile of infotainment for your enjoyment. You can sit in the comfort of your own home and watch Finnish-dubbed episodes of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in the wee hours of the morning. You can listen to Eurthymics songs without interruption for days on end. You can read old issues of Spy Magazine until your eyeballs dry out.

        That’s got to be worth something.

        Stan Adams

        May 24, 2018 at 8:34 PM

      • Housing in cities that matter remains to the be only thing that is unaffordable for many.

        Tangibles are quite affordable. Is renting an apartment a tangible thing? Seems like apartments are intangible. The new status markers are all in the intangible realm.

        JS

        May 24, 2018 at 8:37 PM

      • Stan Adams – as HL Mencken wrote in his essay “Boobus Americanus,” even in 1925 the average man had access to great works of literature, music, and art. But the average man hates great works as they remind him of his inability to produce great works.

        Lion suggests that out-of-work people by given basic income if they visit museums and file reports on what they see. With all due respect, that would fail. The persons in question would be angry seeing what they can’t make.

        All this talk about self-actualization ignores a basic fact of human nature: If self-actualization means “reaching a point where a person feels they have achieved what they were put on earth to do,” then 80% of the human race can only self-actualize via steady work and/or stable family life. They won’t make partner in a law firm or become some sort of cultural figure. Just being able to get by with people they love will be enough.

        njguy73

        May 25, 2018 at 11:19 AM

      • Jordan Peterson makes an excellent point about scale in 12 Rules of Life. Essentially when we lived in smaller population areas (Eg small towns and villages). Everyone was the best at something. In his words, everyone could be top lobster of a particular endeavor and feel like they are top of their field. In the big city there is always someone better.

        What is the emotional/happiness tax we all pay for the modern supply chain? The Walmart’s of the world?

        Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

        May 25, 2018 at 11:34 AM

  22. This guy is a loser. That’s indisputable. This post is about how the news media treated the story. Especially the actions of the unprofessional trickle down media whore. The media didn’t report and let the audience decide. They openly and hostilely mocked him. It fits their narritive “Look another loser white guy living with his parents. What a loser!” The fact that that’s obvious, yet we have to be reminded of that, reminds us that the media jumps at every opportunity to socially shame lower status white males. To top off the insult, this bitch did absolutely nothing to earn her position. She was born cute. Thats it. She has no real authority to play judge. She’s authoring salacious high school level drama.

    What a fucked up time we live in. Feminism is a childish TV show.

    Forbidden Thoughts

    May 25, 2018 at 12:08 AM

    • Yeah, I think the media would be far more sympathetic to a female in this situation. And in fact I doubt that the parents would have evicted a daughter.

      Truth be told, I am comfortable with the idea that men should have more responsibility thrust on them than women. I just wish society would have some respect and grattitude for men who by and large do shoulder their greater responsibilities.

      fortaleza84

      May 25, 2018 at 8:00 AM

      • It’s fine for men to have more responsibilities… IF women have fewer rights.

        Hermes

        May 25, 2018 at 8:56 AM

      • The woman would probably have a child, and yes, parents would take care of both the daughter and the grandchild.

    • Dude, this chick probably looks frightening in the morning. She has porn star level cake face.

      Like most transplant city slickers, she is repulsed by a guy probably reminding her of where she fled.

      A Dilettante

      May 25, 2018 at 11:00 AM

      • Yes, yet we don’t see male chatterers being socially allowed to drop jokes about her appearance (she looks like she just walked off the porn set into her next cam/media gig down the hallway) before she goes off to lambast someone else for their breach of acceptable social behavior. Feminism alows this double standard. Slut shaming needs to come back. It puts trickle down media whores like this in their place.

        Forbidden Thoughts

        May 25, 2018 at 1:12 PM

      • > we don’t see male chatterers being socially allowed to drop jokes about her appearance

        In 2010 Tony Kornheiser was suspended for making fun of the dress of Hannah Storen.

        ScarletNumber

        May 26, 2018 at 11:20 AM

    • Welcome to clown world circa 2018.

      Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

      May 25, 2018 at 11:27 AM

  23. A guy can rent a room and start hustling. If he has problems, he should function on his level. If he doesn’t want to work, he should starve. Magna should work and pay taxes so that guy should play video games?

    Incidentally mates, pride comes before the fall. I was saying that I was gonna pick up an easy $125 for 15 minutes of work. Nothing doing! It’s 1 am and I’ve just finished. Gonna pick up a not so easy $725. Obviously cash, do i need to keep saying it? If 59 year old Jew with ADHD can do it, why can’t that guy at least try?

    Lion, the job is next to Prospect Park and i see a guy riding a horse. Nice. That’s the owner of the stable actually. Pretty cool job he has. Can you paint a horse or just trees?

    Yakov

    May 25, 2018 at 1:16 AM

  24. Gothamette is an annoying commie plant, but at least it’s amusing watching people tear apart her tissue paper “arguments.”

    > Relatives of mine work for the state, live in the Albany area, own land, are out of the rat race and are very happy. They own land, horses & therapy dogs, have large gardens where they raise produce, which they sell in farmers markets, and live very full lives.

    Nice made up story. Yes there are some people like this, but there aren’t enough jobs like that to go around. We are trying to think of the welfare of the majority, not just those fortunate enough to be part of the politburo.

    But but but…. the state will take care of everyone! We can all work for the government! Straight outta 1930s Marxist propaganda. I guess it’s easy to believe in this crap when you’re rich.

    Fact Checker

    May 25, 2018 at 2:35 AM

  25. I haven’t thoroughly read the comments here, so I haven’t seen this mentioned, but it seems likely to me his parents only let him stay because they wanted to see their grandkid. After he lost custody, they couldn’t give a shit about their loser son.

    Vince

    May 25, 2018 at 3:20 AM

  26. If they would have let the banks drop down in the crises of 2008 subprime (all the banks) then houses price would have drop down to their realistic prices (1$) and the prol/middle class would have enjoy housing in good prices.
    Since the elites care only for their share they didn’t let it.

    yuddaaled

    May 25, 2018 at 3:29 AM

    • The middle class are now losers, and they’re more of the losers than the lower class, simply because they strive and every run is on a rodent treadmill.

      JS

      May 25, 2018 at 1:35 PM

  27. I recently reconnected with an old childhood acquaintance. He never married or moved out of his parents’ house. The guy is outgoing, articulate, up on current events, and a laugh-riot. He’s regularly only worked part-time since high school, and has smoked weed every day since age 16; he’s now pushing 60. The guy has taken care of his parents. His mom died twenty years ago. His dad is now 104 y/o still living in the house. Over the years, he’s had the house remodeled, it looks great, and is now worth $600K (soon be split three ways).

    E. Rekshun

    May 25, 2018 at 6:16 AM

    • Part of me envies people like this. Although I can acknowledge that the phenomenon is not good for society, if I had had affluent and indulgent parents, that probably would have been me. (Minus the weed.)

      Hermes

      May 25, 2018 at 8:59 AM

    • Don’t get the attraction of weed.

      Curle

      May 26, 2018 at 1:24 AM

  28. Apparently, Michael Rotondo has received a job offer to work at a Pizza Restaurant and will be receiving an allowance that is a dollar more than his parents. There you go, IAs helping out other IAs. Not really, it’s a guy with surname who offers him a job.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/30-year-old-evicted-by-his-parents-gets-job-offer-bonus-from-italian-restaurant/ar-AAxLkt1?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

    JS

    May 25, 2018 at 11:04 AM

    • * with a surname of Steinberg

      JS

      May 25, 2018 at 11:04 AM

    • It all worked out.

      Can we move on to something else now?

      njguy73

      May 25, 2018 at 11:20 AM

  29. He’s concentrating on getting his son back? How is that remotely possible? He has no job, no home (as of June 1) and no desire to get either.

    Brendan

    May 25, 2018 at 12:57 PM

  30. I am really curious to know what Rotondo’s sister thinks. So far no mention of her in the media, I assume she has a normal life, on her own or married.

    I was struck by Rotondo’s body language when he was interviewed just after the court hearing. He was putting his loose long hair into a ponytail but was taking such an inordinately long time in doing it, stroking and stroking his hair instead of just snapping the rubber band on. Very weird, I’ve never seen such a display by a man in public.

    I started working part time when I was 15. Of course I lived at home with my parents. This creep just has zero work ethic. I guarantee if he were doing anything productive at all his parents wouldn’t have been so desperate to nudge him out of the nest. The shame is not that he was not on his own, the shame is that he demonstrated no desire ever to be on his own. In his mind it’s always someone else’s job to take care of him.

    LBD

    May 26, 2018 at 2:00 AM

    • Any man with long hair and a beard is creepy per se.

      ScarletNumber

      May 26, 2018 at 11:23 AM

      • “Any man with long hair and a beard is creepy per se.”

        Yes. Who’d want to be around someone like that? Especially some long-haired, bearded guy who wears sandals and doesn’t get laid and walks around saying weird stuff…

        njguy73

        May 27, 2018 at 11:00 PM

  31. The problem with having three adults living under the same roof is that is creates a “golden triangle” power dynamic. Every Hollywood movie ever made was about two men competing for the same women, or two women competing for the same guy. Most of the time I see this, it is mom who is the enabler and always sides with junior or gives him money for pot, etc. She hopes he will love her more. Modern feminism has made this much worse because she is competing with her husband for power rather than having defined roles in the household. This is particularly true if one of the parents is a step-parent. This just ends up emasculating Dad in his own home making him resentful of both of them.

    Living with someone who is a dependent but decides who else comes in the house, does not have boundaries with your property (food, cars, heating bills, etc.) , and competes for the living space in the house (always has the tv on, video games, etc.) where the noise and visual space is controlled by others becomes old quickly. This guy could have mitigated things by cleaning up (he looks like someone who is not serious about his appearance making him less attractive to employers and potential marriage partners), and having a plan how he was going to exit the situation. Instead his plan was to sprawl out on the couch and lay claim to the TV.

    Prof. Woland

    May 29, 2018 at 12:19 PM


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