Lion of the Blogosphere

Good stuff from the AA lawsuit against Harvard

Harvard consistently rated Asian-American applicants lower than others on traits like “positive personality,” likability, courage, kindness and being “widely respected,” according to an analysis of more than 160,000 student records filed Friday by a group representing Asian-American students in a lawsuit against the university.

Asian-Americans scored higher than applicants of any other racial or ethnic group on admissions measures like test scores, grades and extracurricular activities, according to the analysis commissioned by a group that opposes all race-based admissions criteria. But the students’ personal ratings significantly dragged down their chances of being admitted, the analysis found.

If Harvard selected applicants based only on academic merit, and not on legacies, athletics, personality, and race, Asians would be 43% of Harvard students instead of only 19%.

Whatever you think about the desirability of Harvard being 43% Asian (I don’t go there, never graduated from there, so I guess it neither benefits me or hurts me), imagine the massive outrage there would be if blacks were systematically discriminated against like that based on subjective factors.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 15, 2018 at EST pm

Posted in Education

72 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. The real scandal is how it was all ok when whitey was discriminated!
    But god forbid when another magical minority is at the receiving end.

    guest

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • Yeah, that’s how it works. The libtards can’t say “but the Asians have WHITE privilege.”

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • They do say something to the effect that Asians are diffirently impacted by white privlidge, something about the scarlet letter or model minority status.

        Issac

        June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • Asians never count toward fulfillment of a given institution’s diversity quota…only blacks, hispanics, LGBTs, muslims or the disabled count.

        Oswald Spengler

        June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • I’m not sure I’ve ever seen you use “libtard”.
        (It’s unbecoming)

        anon

        June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • Oswald Spengler

        June 17, 2018 at EST pm

  2. Not at all surprised. My alma mater was (and is) majority Asian and they are soulless grinds for the most part, not genuinely interested in learning, and cheat whenever they can. Every quarter, dozens of Asians would get suspended or expelled from my college for blatantly copying each other’s homework assignments.

    hard9bf

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • Asian international students or Asian American students?

      Kaz

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • Asian American, at least second- or third-generation. They were not leaders in class and would only speak in class if called on directly by the prof. On group projects they contributed little.

        hard9bf

        June 16, 2018 at EST pm

  3. I read about half of the ~600 comments. The majority agree that excluding asians in the name of diversity is understandable because (according to them) asians are xenophobic themselves, conformist and lack creativity. One woman, a harvard graduate, cites how she and her open minded roommate helped their stifled chinese roommate find her true self, and if all the roommates had been chinese, no one would have found themselves.

    toomanymice

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • There is nothing that can change the inherent nature of East Asians as one dimensional individuals. The same reason that there isn’t anything to boost the mental capacity of those who are inherently less intelligent. There is just more personality variances among Whites.

      The q index measures novelty-seeking, social anxiety, and fear of exclusion. The higher the q index, the more novelty seeking, the less social anxiety and fear of exclusion. East Asians score low on the q index.

      JS

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • It is true that Spaniards love everything new like crazy and are not scared to express very original opinions or have strange habits. I have seen trans men in Spain since ever. At the same time, they are paradoxically extremely uniform, dressing all the same and having the same outfits. They look so much the same that in Bruxelles everyone knows how to recognize a spanig group of people from 50 meters. Bizarre combination .

        Bruno

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • It’s easy to be open-minded the further you are removed from the ghetto.

      There should be a ghetto encounter/proximity factor that guides admissions. Have you ever been assaulted by a member of another race? (y/n); threatened by such a person? (y/n); shaken-down by such a member? (Y/n); Conned by such a member? (y/n); subjected to intimidation tactics by such a member? (y/n); hustled by such a member? (y/n); accused of racism by such a member? (y/n); yelled at by such a member? (y/n); placed in a school composed of 30% or more of the lowest income members of another race? (y/n). Name the race.

      Those with high yes scores should receive priority placement over those with lower scores as persons with authentic multicultural experiences.

      Curle

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • 100% agree.

        Nils anders

        June 16, 2018 at EST pm

    • You could say the same thing about white people though. A black girl can say that a white student just studied all day and that she had to drag the student out to party and have fun.

      It’s all just relative.

      Jeff

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

  4. Lenin was likable.

    Curle

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

  5. The question always in the background is how long can the “hate Whitey” top-bottom coalition the Democrats have cobbled together can endure…another fifteen years, twenty, indefinitely?

    Oswald Spengler

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • I think the hate whitey coalition still has some legs. California is my bellwether for future America, and it still holds up pretty well there. There have been occasional cracks, like California’s own legislative battle of the Asians against Blacks & Hispanics a few years ago over reinstating AA in California’s University system, but even with whites in the minority in that state, they are still threatening enough that the coalition works.

      Mike Street Station

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

  6. Pretty consistent with the profile of most of the Asians I’ve worked with through the years. Hard working, but often times dull, unidimensional, unrounded. Some of them are stylish, but most aren’t. Rarely funny.

    Forbidden Thoughts

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

  7. I thought they didn’t have interview ? How can they rate likability without interviewing the person ?

    Bruno

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

  8. Are Asians any more or less likely to donate money to their alma mater?

    Vince

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • Very unlikely.

      mpt

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • What do they do with their money?

        Curle

        June 15, 2018 at EST pm

  9. From Rob Unz stats, I infer that Jewish and Black take the spots of white non legacies and asian. Asian are treated like the Jewish were in the early XX. White non legacy are treated like the black were. It’s possible that the difference among white and Jewish is non pertinent, and it all comes to a difference between legacy and non legacy. In this case, the prole Jewish would be the most discriminated against. It’s even possible that the very rare case of gifted prole black person would be even more badly treated. Ivy wouldn’t want a clever introverted black guy from a ghetto. That’s why the identity game is so bad, there are some many categories …

    Bruno

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • The trajectory of East Asians is not in the shape or form similar to the Jews of the early XX.

      It’s interesting to note that Bruce Lee being a martial artist and actor, once wrote a book on wisdom. The deal was that he was a philosophy major in the University of Seattle…He had a philosophy background so it seems. He only mentioned the word Judaism once and not a single word of Islam, Confucius or Aristotle is in his book.

      JS

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • Are you referring to “Tao of Jeet Kune Do”? It’s just a collection of Lee’s notes and drawings published after his death. The book is all about fighting, not philosophy, which is why nothing is in there about Islam, Con fucius, or Aristotle.

        Robert the Wise

        June 18, 2018 at EST am

    • White non-legacies = “gifted badwhites”

      Oswald Spengler

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

  10. East Asians are overrepresented as academic students but severely underrepresented as academic researchers. Even among their own historical, literary and philosophical traditions, Westerners seem to have more of an inclination for Confucius than the average East Asian. This is HBD. Similarly with blacks who also demonstrate very little intellectual curiosity but for different reasons.

    JS

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • “blacks who also demonstrate very little intellectual curiosity but for different reasons.”

      If only oppression wasn’t curbing their natural curiosity.

      Curle

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • This is culture. In fact, this is the most explicit demonstration of environmental variations generating cultural variations. Individuals conform to culture, with natural selection choosing those most conformist to the group, so I do agree but clarification is in order.

      The Chinese have emerged out of a subtropical land of superabundance – their population girth is due to a bountiful land of rice and water (rice yields multiples what wheat does per annum). Their cultural orientation, consistent with Orientals, of a pessimistic attitude toward the future is a function of risk-taking being severely punitive and generally marginally beneficial for the group. Europeans developed in an inverted landscape which necessitates hyper-individualism relative to the Far East and generally explains the divergence of the two in world history best represented in the Opium Wars.

      Additionally, Orientals have no or little belief in an immaterial world, contra the pagan world of ancient Europe (later hybridized with the Hebrew religion) with vivid imaginative other-worldliness, seen as late as Wagner. Regardless, University study is an organ of Western European aristocracy which placed a high valuation of the sacred, I.e. non-worldly, over the profane. Thus, it is not that the Chinese lack the genetics but rather they lack the culture to make for good University students which will “return the favor” and pay dividends, or pursue research for its very sake; instead they treat their studies purely materially and transactionally without any future-orientation consideration. This is also why they are so cheap – it is (or rather has been) a culture of “it’s now or nothing”.

      A Dilettante

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • “a subtropical land”

        Only the slightest sliver of China is in the subtropics. The middle latitude of China is roughly the Mason-Dixon Line.

        Curle

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

      • Great comment, which begs us the question as to what happens when Western Civilization decides to follow the pure material world and the non-future consideration of Orientals, in the case of America, by setting a collision course with those whom they have emulated and now surpassed.

        America is the only Western nation that sets a petty gold standard of status with branding of its schools, careers, neighborhoods, cities, and that sort of thing in monetary terms. One particular group that has taken advantage of this peculiar attribute to its fullest, because it is in their “nature”, are to be denied of their fruits of labor where an incompatible racial phenotype is the only exclusionary measure — which brings us to this ongoing problem with East Asians and the Ivy Leagues, and on a more provincial scale, the problem with Bill de Blasio eliminating the entrance exams of the specialized high schools in NYC, which Eastern Asiatics excel above everyone else.

        My constant reinforcement on this blog as to why Meriprolestan and the larger Anglosphere attract Eastern Asiatics more than a nation like Spain is a non-brainer.

        JS

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

      • Outstanding comment.

        Two in the Bush

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

      • Curle, I think your map highlights the tropics, not the subtropics. For example, the US south from DC to Texas is considered subtropical, as would be most of China.

        Two in the Bush

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

      • “Only the slightest sliver of China is in the subtropics. The middle latitude of China is roughly the Mason-Dixon Line.”

        The pink highlighted area is THE tropics. Subtropical is between the dashed lines (sans the tropics)–the South is subtropical.

        anon

        June 16, 2018 at EST pm

  11. Harvard’s mission is to represent America’s elite class demographically and culturally, so it has to discriminate against Asians, regardless of personality traits or whatever. If a minority is overrepresented too much, then it’s unable to claim to be representative of the US as a whole. By the same token, if a significant minority like blacks or Hispanics are too underrepresented, then Harvard is also unable to claim to be representative, especially since representing minorities is now taken to be an important moral principle in the US. So even though Harvard is an elitist institution, it’s also a democratic one in that it strives to be demographically representative and regards demographic representation as a sacred value. And as the US is a democratic society, Harvard’s demographic representativeness it what is supposed to give it moral legitimacy and be able to speak to and influence the US as a whole.

    Consider that for decades now, Harvard has been regarded as a culturally alien and unrepresentative institution by many middle Americans, especially conservatives. This is despite Harvard being majority white during those decades. Harvard has been majority white, but those whites have tended to have been from the coasts and from different cultural backgrounds than middle American conservatives. So there has been a demographic and cultural discrepancy. If Harvard become more Asian, than this discrepancy would be even greater, and Harvard would have even less sway and influence over the majority.

    Tom

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • “Harvard’s mission is to represent America’s elite class demographically and culturally,”

      “whites have tended to have been from the coasts”

      Looks like they aren’t succeeding.

      Curle

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

  12. Lion, check this story out:

    http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/mcgill-music-student-awarded-350000-after-girlfriend-stalls-career

    Got everything – talented Jewish boy with batshit crazy Korean chic – it’s two cultural stereotype for the price of one. And she was a master of the flute: https://www.medphys.mcgill.ca/channels/event/licentiate-recital-jennifer-jooyeon-lee-flute-264080

    🙂

    周树人

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • The lesson is NEVER give your girlfriend access to your email or other passwords-protected accounts.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • >>The lesson is NEVER give your girlfriend access to your email or other passwords-protected accounts.

        This is Man 101, axiomatic. Dude paid dearly for an elementary mistake.

        Daniel

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • All access pass? Beta move.

      Stormy McDaniels

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

  13. I’ll bet the way the left spins this is not that Asians are victims of affirmative action. rather, they’re the victims of white privilege because athletes and legacies (ie white gentiles) took their slots.

    Nils anders

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

  14. A reddit post today that has nothing whatsoever to do with this topic:

    Anon12

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • Does this app exist solely to facilitate casual sex among strangers?

      Curle

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

      • A big part, but maybe not exclusively. In the US, white collar types have migrated to Bumble and Coffee Meets Bagel.

        anon

        June 16, 2018 at EST pm

  15. What if it turned out that Harvard would be 80% East Asian? Why should a private college radically transform itself into something else, just because of someone’s belief that test scores are all-important?

    Roger

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • “What if it turned out that Harvard would be 80% East Asian? Why should a private college radically transform itself into something else, just because of someone’s belief that test scores are all-important?”

      I guarantee that Harvard WON’T be making that argument in its defense!

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 15, 2018 at EST pm

      • So two days after Einstein’s observations are published, Harvard proves him right…

        Paul Ryan's Sickly Old Lap Dog

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • I think part of the reason that some conservative activists support this is that it would mean lots of colleges would be all white or virtually all white, as blacks and Hispanics wouldn’t have the affirmative action to get in. Right now all colleges have to transform themselves according to affirmative action and diversity mandates. If Harvard were no longer allowed to discriminate, it would have to transform itself, but lots of other colleges would be basically all white and be what they would have been all along.

      Tom

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

      • Conservatives support this because 1) it neutralizes the role of personal bias in the selection process and in so doing reduces the power of the Left who control such institutions; 2) Hive mind is true.

        Curle

        June 16, 2018 at EST am

  16. They already have in mind the proportionality of different races they want for their student body. Test scores can help a person compete against others for the given slots for their race, but that’s about it.

    Fact Checker

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

  17. Harvard should admit the truth, which is something like this:

    We at Harvard College do not admit the smartest people.

    We admit the smart sons and daughters of the most powerful, wealthy and famous families, with a smattering of meritocrats.

    While Asian kids are great at tests and grades, their families are not at this time particularly powerful, wealthy or famous outside of Asia.

    When Asians in the West become as wealthy, powerful and famous as Jews have become, we will adjust our quotas accordingly. Until then, we won’t admit too many Asians.

    JA

    June 15, 2018 at EST pm

    • Harvard can’t do that because it doesn’t want other schools and people to discriminate. It wants to have its cake and eat it too. It wants to be able to discriminate, while preventing other schools from doing so. Harvard is among the top choices for the smartest students, so even if it does discriminate it still gets the first pick at the smartest students and gets a bunch of them anyway. Other schools can’t and are saddled with affirmative action anyway.

      Tom

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • A caveat is that in France, competition for best institutions are based on written exam and then oral examination in front of a jury based only in knowledge. And in those schools (ENA, Ecole Normale supérieure d’Ulm, École Polytechnique X) who are more selective than anything equivalebt except in India, the top 1% (630k for an household in the USA) is more represented than at in Harvard (30 vers 15%)
      https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/1/25/harvard-income-percentile/

      At Harvard, median income of parents is 80th percentile. Ultra rich 0.1 are over represented 30 times. 1% 15 times. And top 5% 8 times . If Harvard recruited only on parents money, the 0.1% would be 100%.

      If you compare money with scholastic score, Harvard average sat is 1 in 200 (among all population, 1 in 100 among test takers) so Harvard is 10 times more selective in scholastics results than in parents money. It’s true that status is not only money but it’s a good proxy (because you have rich proles and not so high income elite).

      I guess grade selection is in between.

      Bruno

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • “We admit the smart sons and daughters of the most powerful, wealthy and famous families, with a smattering of meritocrats.”

      That’s about right. people don’t realize how few spots they have available. They’re a matchmaking service for the bright and glad-handing kids of the emerging top tier to the meritorious inside man with ideas in need of an amiable outside man business/marriage partner with dough. They also want to meet bright people from foreign countries to bring their power-elites to Americanization but in a balanced/cultural assimilation way.

      True upper-upper-upper/founding patrician in this country left Harvard long ago. You have to think generationally for newcomers. It’s maybe local college then IVY-Stanford then Oberlin then small artsy/mission colleges like Marlboro/Colorado/New College Florida/St Lawrence/Geneseo then model open college like Charter Oak or St Petersburg College (Gilsons, Rothschilds, all kinds of WASPs who left money behind for sheer influence go there where they can guide hoi polloi and be left in peace in IMHO) or London or even Harvard Extension, or foreign colleges (American College of Rome is big now)…or if they’re really academically serious they go to places like St John’s or other Great Books places…then they may cycle back.

      I did a stint at a top college in admissions. My contacts say the real problem besides getting balance/cultural assimilation is many of these Asian and other applicants simply cheat or flagged as Chinese spies. My two cents.

      Robert

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

  18. You guys are ducking the HBD angle. HBD says that IQ and athletic ability are largely heritable, with group differences and policy implications. The same can be said for personality traits, and they are almost as important as IQ. Isn’t it possible that Chinese students have personality traits that make them less desirable at Harvard?

    The NY Times gives the impression that personality is just a bogus excuse for discriminating against Asian-Americans. But what is the truth? Is it possible that the Harvard admissions folks are accurately judging real and important traits?

    Denying the reality of these traits seems just as absurd as denying the reality of IQ. On the other hand, I have no idea whether Harvard can judge these personality traits reasonably.

    Roger

    June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • “Isn’t it possible that Chinese students have personality traits that make them less desirable at Harvard?”

      Chinese definitely have different biologically-based personality traits.

      That those traits are undesirable is a racist white-man’s perspective. No doubt, in China, white personality traits are considered undesirable.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

  19. ResetEra says that Asians need to shut up and that blacks and browns deserve the spots at Harvard more.

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • * One important thing of note — most people don’t understand the basis for the Ivies, which is an incubator for parasitic value transferees. Commenters everywhere fail to take note and make remarks as if there is no Harvard, one can major in engineering at ABC. Tech oriented, value creating, Eastern Asiatics fail to understand their sole existence in Meriprolestan.

      JS

      June 16, 2018 at EST am

  20. from ResetEra: “f people think the end goal of this lawsuit if they win will be more Asian Americans admitted, wrong, it will be more whites admitted.

    You will only push the other minorities down, to get maybe a few more of your own group in, but not as many as they believe.

    Then back to square one for everyone. Good job.”

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 16, 2018 at EST am

  21. More from ResetEra:

    “They trying to pit the minority groups against each other?”

    “And yeah the tactic of tearing down other minorities is quite suspect.”

    “the asian american community seriously needs to let this go before affirmative action is put on the chopping block and hispanic/african americans suffer. you’re not being systematically discriminated against if you apply to stanford, Berkeley, and UCLA and only Berkeley says yes”

    “well

    blacks and latinos combined make up

    *checks notes*

    19% vs 22% Asian at Princeton

    17% vs 19% Asian at UPenn

    14.2% vs 23% Asian at Stanford

    20.5% vs 26% Asian at MIT”

    There are many people who believe in pure meritocracy, regardless of your origins. It’s a very legitimate stance.

    It’s legitimate if you drank a gallon of the lockean koolaid and have a totally asocial and ahistorical understanding of society.”

    “It’s not the Asian Americans responsibility to pay for the reparations against the systematic racism white people created to hold back the black community.

    We are minorities too and most of us aren’t asking for college to judge us on the same level as blacks and Hispanic. We understand why affirmative action is needed to rise the community against the hundreds of years of racism.

    We just hate the fact that we’re also handicapped against white people.”

    “So Harvard is selectively excluding students based on race by duking the stats of minority students due to concerns that the campus might become “too Asian”, and it’s being dismissed by a lot of (non-asian) people here. If it was black students being rejected because Harvard felt they were becoming overrepresented would you feel the same way?”

    (presumably this comment comes from an Asian)

    Thing to remember is that Asians hate white people and support white genocide. I’m all for the Asians having to suffer from left wing politics.

    Still, I support the Asians in this case. Time to destroy academia.

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 16, 2018 at EST am

  22. If Harvard selected applicants based only on academic merit, and not on legacies, athletics, personality, and race, Asians would be 43% of Harvard students instead of only 19%.

    If Harvard did that, there’d be basically no black and Hispanic students, and the white share would actually go up. Currently, whites are about 50% of Harvard students, so the white share would go up to 57%. In the current environment, it’s hard to see how Harvard would get away with a selection system that increased the white share while basically eliminating black and Hispanic students.

    Tom

    June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • “It’s hard to see how Harvard would get away with a selection system that increased the white share”

      They’d simply point out that the white students earned their spots and that they aren’t a black pride organization.

      Curle

      June 16, 2018 at EST pm

    • You’re wrong and you know it. Harvard would still be like 1% black and 3% hispanic.

      Bell curves have tails.

      SC

      June 18, 2018 at EST am

  23. They should just ask if they consider jet skis and off road trucks “dumb prole stuff”. If they say yes then they are clearly too boring and lack character.

    DataExplorer

    June 16, 2018 at EST am

  24. The only whites that are creative though are Jews.

    If you are going to grade personality and creativity so heavily, than expect blacks and Hispanics to score better than asians And whites.

    Jeff

    June 16, 2018 at EST am

    • C’mon. Darwin, Shakespeare, Faulkner, Beethoven, Da Vinci all Jews?

      Curle

      June 16, 2018 at EST pm

      • Shakespeare was rumored to be Jewish. One portrait depict him to be very with Semitic in appearance for an Englishman.

        Da Vinci was also of the phenotype. Many Italians are “Mediterranean” and thus are similar. Rumor has it that Da Vinci’s mother was a Russian Jew.

        JS

        June 16, 2018 at EST pm

      • They could be part jewish, or could be gay. both are genetically related to higher creativity. still, with a high population you should still get some creatives. Even in middle america, china, or india you should be getting some creative people.

        polo

        June 17, 2018 at EST am

  25. I am friends with a Chinese-American guy. The cheapest person I know…cheap to the point of being mentally ill. Not sure if this is typical. He is quite wealthy but has never had a girlfriend because he won’t spend any money on them. They don’t like him anyways. He is harmless but has been nailed with sexual harassment at two workplaces.

    Jay Fink

    June 16, 2018 at EST pm

  26. I found this comment on a NZ related YouTube video.

    “We (Chinese New Zealanders) lives in that country but we have no idea at all about the Maori’s languages and I have no idea how to sing the nation’s hymn [anthem]. We just know chasing wealth and contribute almost nothing to this nation, we are so wrong. It was our shame! “

    Nedd Ludd

    June 17, 2018 at EST am

  27. Open borders for Asian women.

    fakeemail

    June 17, 2018 at EST am


Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: