Lion of the Blogosphere

Whiteness needs to be a big tent

I found the following sentence from a NY Times article about demographic change interesting:

For example, the child of a white mother and Hispanic father would be counted as Hispanic, even though research shows that many such mixed children — about 11 percent of all births, according to Richard Alba, a sociologist at the City University of New York — are not unlike white children in terms of residence, family income, schooling and eventually, marriage.

The country is more white than commonly assumed because whiteness is commonly restricted to people with two non-Hispanic white parents.

There’s a common belief (pushed by both the fakestream media and the Bush wing of the Republican party) that Republicans are doomed if they are the “white party”, but in fact Republicans can win elections for a long time if they get more people to think of themselves as “white” and thus vote for white interests over minority interests.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 20, 2018 at 11:24 AM

Posted in Politics

97 Responses

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  1. Jews of European descent are obviously white.

    Oswald Spengler

    June 20, 2018 at 11:28 AM

    • I didn’t say anything about Jews, but yes there are some crazy “alt-right” racists who define whiteness so narrowly that European Jews are excluded.

      Sephardic Jews also need to be welcomed into the white tent.

      • There are vastly more leftist diaspora members who consider themselves non-white minorities than their are “alt right,” persons at all. The latter is what? Three to five websites that get a few thousand hits, half of which are probably LEO.

        Per the original post though, it’s up to the American Hispanic (unclear what that is genetics wise, other than mestizo) population to decide what they are. Being “white,” is probably not going to be enticing when it disallows you to take advantage of social and legal privlidges.

        Issac

        June 20, 2018 at 11:52 AM

      • It’s not just the alt-right. Some Jews are also claiming that that Jews (including Ashkenazim) are “persons of color.” It’s so stupid.

        gothamette

        June 20, 2018 at 12:08 PM

      • Those crazy alt-right guys like Mike Wallace

        Steve Johnson

        June 20, 2018 at 12:16 PM

      • As Yakov would say…Jews are different. And they are different from White gentiles in terms of culture, history and experiences.

        There isn’t a significant population of Sephardic Jews in America, and those who identify as such are usually Hispanics.

        JS

        June 20, 2018 at 12:23 PM

      • Yakov, although Jewish, is fanatical, so just because he says he’s not white doesn’t mean it’s true.

      • “Sephardic Jews also need to be welcomed into the white tent.”

        Can we exclude Hasidic Jews? I can’t stand them and feel like they don’t care what happens to Western Civilization, white Americans, America, or their own damn town for that matter. They only care about themselves. They’re more self-centered than blacks if that can be believed.

        DdR

        June 20, 2018 at 1:14 PM

      • What separates most secular Jews and White gentiles is the former are more progressive. Jewish owned businesses that cater to a wider mainstream usually hire a large non-white staff along with their white gentile staff. You can’t say the same of White gentiles who have a smaller mindset when it comes to running a business. This is one stark observation that Jews are quite different. Is this the reason why Jews on average are more cosmopolitan, successful and wealthier? They are often perceived as the quintessential capitalist/globalist. Furthermore, Jews are still seen as intellectual oriented. Football is for the goyim.

        JS

        June 20, 2018 at 1:27 PM

      • Well, then you are merely going to have subsets of “Whiteness” to exclude whomever needs to be excluded.

        You can’t expect Hispanics and all Jews to be counted under he Umbrella with every “White” group when Hispanics and Jews often diverge their political interests from those of these groups.

        Hispanics and Jews certainly aren’t considering all “Whites” within their political interests. So, how can you expect non-hispanic whites and non-Jewish Whites to include those groups within their only true sociopolitical umbrella at all times?

        That wouldn’t be fair, nor is it practical to expect that outcome.

        You can’t reasonably expect Henry Whitman’s of the world to willingly procreate with all of the Maria Gomez’s, or even with her mixed children. They aren’t of the same race any more that the Israeli Hasidim are with the Jewish Ethiopians (and similarly aren’t running to procreate with them) .

        Whiteness, even for non-Hiapnic and non-Jewish Whites, hardly has any meaning. Celts are not Nords are not Slavs, etc.

        Celts, for example, even have racial issues within that subset. The Welsh are not the Iberian breed of “Irish”. And they really aren’t. The Dutch are not the Polish. And they really aren’t. The Dutch should no mix heavily with the Polish any more than Iberian Celtic genetics should be encouraged to dominate in Wales and Scotland.

        The issues that “Whites” have with Blacks in this nation are less exaggerated but mirrored in the issues that West Europe has with East. No one is going to willingly agree to such a broad dilution of identity and race.

        All Whites are not the same. Cro Magnon bred with every manner of hominid to create the races.

        Some “White” races have more Neanderthal admixture than others, a difference which is a significant in racial terms.

        Some Whites are long bred out from the Mongolian line after thousands of years of mixing on the plains of Asia and then during the later Mongolian invasion. The Mongolians, in turn, who were the result of Cro Magnon mixing with the Asian Neanderthal and Denisovan. This is also the genetic mix of the American Indian and thus modern Mestizos.

        You’re essentially asking some tribes of the “White” race to take in hominid genetics that are largely foreign to it (from Asia), and thus that would change the race fundamentally. It isn’t going to happen. Nor can you expect some of the White race to take on a radical increase in Neanderthal genetic load, by mixing with “Whites” that originate toward central Asia.

        I’m a bog fanof your Lion, but race does not begin and end at Whiteness. Call me an alt right racist, I don’t care. This is fundamental. What you propose has so many differing angles and necessary considerations that a short decree isn’t going o cut it, really. With all due respect.

        Sam

        June 20, 2018 at 6:29 PM

      • Sepharadic Jews are much closer to latinos in terms of culture, temperament and behaviour, maybe some will be like upper class latinos but still, to consider them white will be just plain wrong. The Ashkenazi Jews in Israel are also becoming more Mediterranean than north Europeans, an average Israeli will get along much better with Greeks or Italians than with an American Ashkenazi Jew.

        Jews in Europe were never considered to be part of the “white” society, they were always the other, only now American Jews think about themselves as part of the general white society, but most of the white society don’t see it in the same way. You might think it is just the extreme alt right but as someone who traveled a lot and met many Europeans and Americans around the world, you will be surprised how many times in some stage the truth comes out, from plain antisemitism to just simple understanding that although my butt is as white as theirs they don’t consider me as part of their white group and I don’t consider myself as part of it.

        Hashed

        June 20, 2018 at 10:19 PM

      • That’s why I support Israel, the world is full of antisemitism, the Jews need a country of their own.

      • Also, to take it to the extreme, do you consider those Jews as whites? The last guy is interesting as he is talking a bit about his identity, even though a bit is lost in translation

        Hashed

        June 20, 2018 at 11:07 PM

      • @Sam

        According to this map by the racialist/eugenicist Madison Grant, Wales is more Iberian/Mediterranean than Ireland. Scotland is even with Ireland.

        The above map matches up with the distribution of light hair and eyes in Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England.

        chris

        June 21, 2018 at 3:53 AM

      • @chris Those maps show that the epicentre of light eyes/hair cross current major languages distributions. In particular, it shows Finland mixed in with the surrounding Indo-European languages countries,

        The Indo-Europeans must have showed up later, and didn’t kill off the original population. Somehow Finland (and related Estonian just across the Baltic) escaped.

        There were at least two IE separate incursions. The Celtic & Welsh was the first IE invasion. The Germanic came later.

        Frau Katze

        June 22, 2018 at 12:50 AM

  2. Also, the Republicans need to do everything they can (within reason) to brand the Democrats as The Black Party — not the Non-White Party.

    Oswald Spengler

    June 20, 2018 at 11:36 AM

    • Only 1 of the 44 Black women currently running for Congress has the official endorsement of the Democrat Party. They know better, believe it or not.

      B.T.D.T.

      June 20, 2018 at 1:16 PM

  3. The GOP should also try to sway as much of the minority vote (even blacks) as possible who are open to voting Republican. They shouldn’t pander to these voters (leave that to the Dems), the Reps should make race-neutral appeals but targeted at minority communties. The GOP doesn’t need huge margins in minoriy blocs, just enough to tip the balance more in their favor.

    Oswald Spengler

    June 20, 2018 at 11:44 AM

  4. The problem is the “flight from white” — i.e. while it used to be advantageous to be considered white, nowadays “white” is the last thing you want to be. Through 1960, 100% of Hispanics identified as white, i.e. “white” is equal to the sum of “non-Hispanic white” and “Hispanic.” Starting in 1970, the proportion of “white” Hispanics starts dropping like a rock.

    The only way to stop this trend is by eliminating anti-white policies and rhetoric, and that’ll require stemming the decline in the white proportion of the population. So it’s a pretty big chicken-and-egg problem.

    snorlaxwp

    June 20, 2018 at 11:54 AM

    • Flight from white was a passing fad when multiculturalism was cool. It won’t be for much longer. Conservatism is the new counterculture and high iq people of mixed white and Hispanic heritage will find it more advantageous to identify as white. That is exactly what happens in multiethnic societies in Latin America. The whites own everything, the tans run everything and the blacks beg, borrow and steal.

      B.T.D.T.

      June 20, 2018 at 12:35 PM

      • The flight from white seems more of a flight into affirmative action for your group.

        AA has past it sell-by date. I suppose there does not exist a politician prepared to dismantle it.

        If it stays it should be blacks only, preferably those with slave ancestry. Why should a Nigerian qualify for AA?

        The option for Chinese desperate about Harvard et al, is to reject AA and become a group without special privileges at all.

        I may misunderstand AA, not being an American,

        Frau Katze

        June 20, 2018 at 5:13 PM

      • I’ve never heard of a person of obvious mestizo heritage referring to themselves as white in the last several decades. It makes no sense to do so unless affirmative action were abolished and freedom of association were once again protected. Neither of these things seem likely.

        Issac

        June 20, 2018 at 5:40 PM

    • I don’t think the term Hispanic even existed on the Census until 1970, so there’s no way they could’ve identified as anything else…

      GondwanaMan

      June 20, 2018 at 12:36 PM

      • More than that, telling an Hispanic that he wasn’t white would be a good way to get beat up.

      • I think that the overwhelming majority of Jews think they are white. A tiny minority of loudmouths who write for the Jewish press, which is overwhelmingly NOT read by Jews, are talking about Jews as “persons of color.”

        This is an entirely different issue from immigration, where Jews are probably a lot more squishy than non-Jews (although by no means mostly pro-open borders.)

        gothamette

        June 20, 2018 at 3:24 PM

  5. How are Hispanics with 100% European ancestry categorized? Steve Sailer calls them Conquistador-Americans.

    There’s more of them in Argentina and Chile than farther north. A few Europeans emigrated to Argentina rather than North America.

    They are likely not in the crowd crossing the Mexican border now. Forgive my ignorance, being Canadian. We don’t have official race categories since we don’t have affirmative action.

    We do have some trouble categorizing who is a native, however, as there has been significant intermarriage, with one group of mixed ancestry even having their own name, the Métis.

    Quote: “Prior to 1985, an Indian woman who married a non-Indian man also lost status. This meant that legally, she ceased to be an “Indian,” as did all of her children. Conversely, a non-Indian woman who married a status Indian man gained status and became an “Indian,” even though she had no ancestral relation to any Indian community.”

    https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/aboriginal_identity__terminology/

    Frau Katze

    June 20, 2018 at 11:56 AM

    • A guy I knew in Highschool Went to boston college on a scholar ship for being Hispanic. His dad was white, and his mom was a Spaniard. So, 16 years ago, they were “hispanic”

      everybodyhatesscott

      June 20, 2018 at 1:10 PM

      • The whole Hispanic category is not well defined and used for purposes never intended, unless you’re rabidly alt-right and don’t think southern Europeans are white. I don’t think there’s many going that far.

        Frau Katze

        June 20, 2018 at 5:26 PM

    • I do not know how the census designates them but this is all a matter of self-reporting anyway.

      I can only tell you that I knew a half-Conquistador American who qualified for $30K rakeoff in her B-school tuition as a, get this, “Spanish-surnamed American.”

      The aforementioned Keith Hernandez, former MLB player, does not consider himself Hispanic or Latino. He considers himself half-Castilian.

      gothamette

      June 20, 2018 at 3:26 PM

      • A White Hispanic with a surname of Martinez is a lucky bastard. Short change it to Martin and somehow it’s an Anglicized name.

        I’ve come across a Mexican American whose surname was Moon as in Keith Moon. It turns out his grandfather changed it from Muñiz to evade the stigma.

        JS

        June 20, 2018 at 9:43 PM

  6. I think theres a theory that asians will begin to think themselves as white in 30 years in american. Not unlike the italians and irish did in the 1930s onwards.

    uman

    June 20, 2018 at 12:01 PM

  7. The former baseball player Keith Hernandez (half Irish, half Castilian) does not consider himself Hispanic, nor is he considered so.

    gothamette

    June 20, 2018 at 12:09 PM

    • Helps to explain why he was the second-smartest guy on the Mets (after half-white Ron Darling).

      • I always loved Ron Darling’s name. I thought it was positively darling.

        Alternate joke: how do you like darling?

        I don’t know, I never darled.

        gothamette

        June 20, 2018 at 1:21 PM

    • He’s also a huge Yes fan. Can’t get more white/jewish/higher-IQ than that.

      Bill

      June 20, 2018 at 5:45 PM

      • Yes? OK.

        gothamette

        June 20, 2018 at 7:15 PM

  8. gothamette

    June 20, 2018 at 12:13 PM

    • Look at the comments. The masochism is chilling.

      BTW I was in vibrant, diverse Trenton the other day at an arts festival. There was a mass shooting a few hours after I left. I didn’t like the area and I vamoosed early.

      gothamette

      June 20, 2018 at 12:16 PM

      • Not sure you can call Trenton diverse, though i understand why you do so. It is very very black. A truly depressing place. Not sure what will happen to it. Newark will be gentrified (whitified). But Trenton and Camden? Hard to see.

        amused observer

        June 20, 2018 at 1:01 PM

      • Do I have to spell out what “diverse” and “vibrant” mean? And no, vibrant isn’t what you become after you touch Vibranium.

        (BTW Lion I saw Black Panther & it sucked. Creed OTOH was great.)

        gothamette

        June 20, 2018 at 3:52 PM

      • Trenton’s a shithole and way too close to Camden.

        DdR

        June 20, 2018 at 1:15 PM

      • Which I saw up close and personal. Never again!

        gothamette

        June 20, 2018 at 3:53 PM

      • Top under reader picks is this masochist comment WTF?

        Speaking as an elderly white woman, I hope I live long enough to see whites become a minority. The rule of rich, white, terrified men has been unbearably destructive to this country. It is time for a change.

        Frau Katze

        June 20, 2018 at 5:40 PM

  9. “Republicans can win elections for a long time if they get more people to think of themselves as “white” and thus vote for white interests over minority interests”

    This is rather a good point, “whiteness” needs to be inculcated into minorities and be a standard setter. The more successful minority immigrant groups tend to gauge their own performance againt “whiteness”. If the Republican Party attempts to pander to minorities anymore than it already has, it will destroy itself.

    Roli

    June 20, 2018 at 12:23 PM

  10. The trick to get Hispanics and “half-Hispanics” to be against immigration is to focus on the dangers of Socialism. Socialism has destroyed a lot of Hispanic countries (Venezuela, Cuba, Colombia, Nicaragua, Brazil). There is nothing Middle Class Hispanics fear more than Socialism, even lower middle class Hispanics. The battle cry should be that the Democrats are importing “Socialist voters”, not “brown people”.

    DataExplorer

    June 20, 2018 at 12:25 PM

    • That’s why that vermin socialist Bernie must be stopped. If he wins in 2020, it’s socialism on.

      mpt

      June 20, 2018 at 1:41 PM

      • The Labour Party in the UK is run by anti-semite Jeremy Corbyn. Too many Muslim followers to sympathize with any but the most masochist Jew.

        Hammer and sickle banners are par for the course at Labour events. The party is simply appalling.

        Frau Katze

        June 20, 2018 at 5:45 PM

    • Brazil is not Hispanic. Latin Catholic, yes, but definitely not Hispanic. Brazil suffers from many of the same problems that many Latin countries do, but it has an interesting history and identity worth looking in to.

      Dave

      June 20, 2018 at 2:34 PM

    • That’s a good idea and I agree. But don’t call it a “trick”. I know you didn’t mean it that way. But it sounds bad.

      destructure

      June 20, 2018 at 2:35 PM

    • Thats just cucked nonsense though. The problem isn’t socialism it’s the populations. No south american countries are nice. If the socialist countries are any nicer it’s only because they get to suck off the first world more while countries like Venezuela have to fend for themselves when the shit hits the fan.

      We need to pay people to leave. Get rid of the term and concept of Hispanic, but mestizos aren’t white.

      though research shows that many such mixed children — about 11 percent of all births, according to Richard Alba, a sociologist at the City University of New York — are not unlike white children in terms of residence, family income, schooling and eventually, marriage.

      “Many” such children….I swear lion is so dumb sometimes. That statistic is utterly meaningless.

      Magnavox

      June 20, 2018 at 2:49 PM

  11. Womp womp. What’s your take lion?

    driveallnight

    June 20, 2018 at 12:28 PM

  12. Plenty of East Asians and Indians would gladly identify as white. Same with Cubans in Florida and 3rd generation+ Mexicans in Texas, New Mexico, Colorado.

    GondwanaMan

    June 20, 2018 at 12:38 PM

    • East Asians and Indians would never be considered white, get real. Half and quarter East Asians and Indians would. But not if huge #s of them are let into the country.

      I think the game is over, Lion. The only question is what is our civil war going to look like?

      Have you been paying attention to the vitriol and violence directed towards Trump about the migrant children? It has reached a state of utter frenzy.

      gothamette

      June 20, 2018 at 3:28 PM

      • What is the civil war going to look like:

        Look no further than the violence laden favelas around Rio, with the violence increasingly seeping into the city’s posh white neighbourhoods, that’s what it looks like. And if and when the shit hits the fan, it will look like Zimbabwe’s baricaded white farms.

        Roli

        June 20, 2018 at 4:08 PM

      • I think light-skinned, high caste, educated Indians in the West already basically regard themselves as white. Probably same is true of Japanese with multiple generations of family members living in California and maybe some wealthy cosmopolitan, global Chinese.

        GondwanaMan

        June 20, 2018 at 5:34 PM

      • “I think light-skinned, high caste, educated Indians in the West already basically regard themselves as white. ”

        No, they don’t. They have lots of contempt for whties. Anyway whites don’t consider them white.

        “Probably same is true of Japanese with multiple generations of family members living in California”

        Those kinds are heavily intermarried with whites. They are like Reform Jews, after 2 generations, it’s over.

        ” and maybe some wealthy cosmopolitan, global Chinese.”

        They are Chinese as hell.

        The world outside the US isn’t just “black and white.” But in the US it is. Some Asians & Hispanics intermarry with whites and will continue to, but I do not see anything further. The taboo against blacks joining the white caste is as high as ever. As someone once said, “the blacks get whiter but the whites don’t get blacker.”

        gothamette

        June 21, 2018 at 7:31 AM

    • Utter nonsense. Even if you allow for the fact that Asians don’t get affirmative action in educational, they do qualify for minority business and government contract privlidge. There is no reason to identify as white prior to the abolition of affirmative minority privlidge enshrined in your government. You’d be a fool to think otherwise based on some cheuvist notion that you are envied. You’re being colonized.

      Issac

      June 20, 2018 at 5:45 PM

  13. Agree that the big tent phenomenon will unfold. Keep in mind that just a few generations ago white Catholics and Protestants hated each other. Now they are united in common cause. Soon the Jewish population will also be intermarried into the wider white gentile mileue as are Greeks and Italians. The mixed white/Hispanic and white/Asian population that is high iq will also eventually be assimilated into “white” culture. Blacks will not and will remain the underclass. Unfortunately I think those who are mixed white/black will have the hardest time because neither the white world or black world will fully embrace them. See South America.

    B.T.D.T.

    June 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM

    • Mixed blacks have always had disproportionate power in their community. Several of the earliest black leaders were white in all but name, and Obama, Eric Holder, Valerie Jarrett and Kamala Harris have much less African ancestry than the typical black American. During the Obama years the leader of the NAACP was Benjamin Jealous, who looks like a fat Spaniard.

      Richard

      June 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM

      • True. But they are never considered white.

        B.T.D.T.

        June 20, 2018 at 3:58 PM

      • John Derbyshire refers to these light-skinned, elite caste blacks as “The Mulatto Mafia.”

        Oswald Spengler

        June 20, 2018 at 5:49 PM

    • The decline of religion (except for Muslims) has made the previous animosity between Catholics and Protestants simply irrelevant.

      Frau Katze

      June 20, 2018 at 5:53 PM

  14. That is a really good insight.

    Clay

    June 20, 2018 at 12:47 PM

  15. Just watched a clip this morning of Nikki Haley announcing that the US is quitting it’s membership of the UN Human Rights Commission, an excellent move and something long over-due. I’m no fan of Haley’s (especially her disgraceful behaviour towards Trump during the last presidential campaign), but as of this morning at least she’s my new favourite Sikh.

    Roli

    June 20, 2018 at 2:38 PM

  16. ResetEra says that Trump has engineered the border crisis to distract from Russia

    Otis the Sweaty

    June 20, 2018 at 2:47 PM

  17. “Whiteness needs to be a big tent”

    No.

    destructure

    June 20, 2018 at 2:48 PM

    • “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.”

      Issac

      June 20, 2018 at 5:46 PM

    • Why not?

      Oswald Spengler

      June 20, 2018 at 5:50 PM

    • But it is, up to a point. Look at the portraits online of John Wayles Jefferson. Altho that’s a bad example cos he was 3/16 African.

      I’m really referring to small amounts of East Asian, South Asian & Native American ancestry. These have always been assimilated into the “white” bloodline with no discernible effect after a generation or two.

      “American Indian”

      He’s 1/4 Osage. Could you tell?

      gothamette

      June 21, 2018 at 7:38 AM

      • I don’t want to assimilate anyone. And certainly not for votes.

        destructure

        June 21, 2018 at 12:59 PM

      • Tell that to the Founding Fathers. They were the ones who got us into this mess. And to white men who have married Indians, Mexicans, etc.

        gothamette

        June 21, 2018 at 4:23 PM

      • No, the Founding Fathers didn’t “get us into this mess”. They shut down importation of african slaves shortly after independence. Indians weren’t even granted citizenship until 1923. And non-white immigration was very low until after Ted Kennedy’s 1965 Immigration Act. This “mess” is almost entirely the result of immigration that happened during your own lifetime.

        As for “white men who have married Indians, Mexicans, etc.” They didn’t ask my permission and I didn’t give it. And I don’t see why it’s incumbent upon me to accept the results of a decision that I had no control over.

        destructure

        June 21, 2018 at 7:43 PM

      • African slaves were clandestinely imported into the US until the 1850s. And plantation owners were proud to breed as many Negroes as they could – and sometimes bred with them. The children of these unions were freed, and became free persons of color, and the one drop rule was created to prevent their “pollution” of the white race.

        This is what the Founding Fathers gave us. If they had done away with slavery, this would not have happened.

        “This “mess” is almost entirely the result of immigration that happened during your own lifetime.”

        Nope, it is the result of immigration of Anglo-Saxons to a continent already inhabited, who imported large #s of black slaves to labor for them. Even after the Civil War, Nathan Bedford Forrest was in favor of importing Africans – as indentured servants, because “they are the only laboring class we’ve ever known.”

        Indian citizenship is irrelevant to my point (and it was in 1925) – white men were breeding with Indian women and creating mixed race children regardless. The white race in the US isn’t pure. This is fact.

        “And I don’t see why it’s incumbent upon me to accept the results of a decision that I had no control over.”

        It’s incumbent on you to accept reality. The US white who have lived near non-whites have picked up some of their genes.

        gothamette

        June 21, 2018 at 9:20 PM

      • You think slavery which ended generations ago is responsible for something today? That without slavery NAMs would be model citizens and people on the east and left coast would be staunch conservatives? If that’s true then why are so many countries that never had slavery following in our foot steps creating similar messes for themselves?

        With or without slavery they’re engaging in the exact same patterns. That’s because it has nothing to do with slavery or the “patriarchy” or any of that other crap. That’s just the club they use to beat others. If they didn’t have that club then they’d just find another. And so would you.

        “The US white who have lived near non-whites have picked up some of their genes.”

        Sailer crunched the numbers. And the amount of black ancestry in white Americans averages out to less than 1 in 1000. The relevant portion starts near the bottom after “zimmerman”. Use Ctrl-F

        https://www.unz.com/isteve/henry-louis-gates-exactly-how-black-is/

        Sailer’s number-crunching holds up in the real world, too. Last year, I sent in a DNA test kit which showed no black or injun ancestry. I see no reason why my results would be atypical.

        destructure

        June 22, 2018 at 4:27 PM

      • “You think slavery which ended generations ago is responsible for something today? ”

        What the fuck are you talking about? I wasn’t talking about slavery, You are literally hysterical. Get a hold of yourself.

        I stated, and repeat, that there has been racial intermarriage in the US, which is proven. Yeah, I read Sailer and it was the usual. I’m not going to read him again. He didn’t prove anything. He’s a hack.

        I never said white America has non-trivial amounts of AFRICAN blood. I said, and will repeat, that white Americans who have lived among non-whites have intermarried with them to “some extent.” What that “some extent” is, is small but it happened. And of course, it happened when whites & non-whites lived in proximity. Duh.

        Since you can’t, or do not want to read, I said, and will repeat, that with respect to blacks, “The blacks get whiter, but the whites don’t get blacker.” Very few whites have black blood. But some do, usually dating from colonial times when intermarriage between black and white indentured servants wasn’t criminalized.

        This man was descended from a black slave:

        https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8510541/hiram-lane-grinstead

        So were the Gibsons, of Tulane University, big cheeses in the Confederacy:

        http://www.tulanelink.com/tulanelink/gibson2_box.htm

        Randall Lee Gibson’s great-grandfather was a mulatto.

        Randall Lee:

        http://www.tulanelink.com/tulanelink/gibson_box.htm

        gothamette

        June 22, 2018 at 5:27 PM

      • I gave in to temptation and read Sailer’s link. Jesus, what a dope. He was calculating an AVERAGE, which obviously you do not understand. Yes, millions of white immigrants came to the US and that means that the overwhelming majority of white Americans are whitey white white white white. They never met a black person.

        I am referring to the very long history of Europeans and Africans 1620-1776, and thereafter in the Confederacy, where they lived in proximity.

        gothamette

        June 22, 2018 at 5:30 PM

      • “What the fuck are you talking about? I wasn’t talking about slavery, You are literally hysterical. Get a hold of yourself.”

        I doubt people reading our comments think I’m the one who’s hysterical.

        You’ve repeatedly implied Americans living in close proximity to nonwhites are mixed. But genetic studies have repeatedly shown the opposite is true. Blacks living in the former slave states are actually the least mixed of American blacks. Common sense says that if those blacks are less mixed then it would be similarly true of the whites living there as well. Furthermore, it’s well known that light-skinned blacks attempting to ‘cross over’ moved north where they could more easily blend in.
        (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtZb6dc7Y8)

        “Yes, millions of white immigrants came to the US and that means that the overwhelming majority of white Americans are whitey white white white white. They never met a black person.”

        You’re pushing a myth that white Americans were mixed and that subsequent immigration of millions of European immigrants made them whiter. In fact, the number of mixed race people absorbed into the white population was vanishingly small. Most mixed race people were absorbed back into the black population. And the few who weren’t had only very small amounts of non-white ancestry otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to ‘pass’.

        Furthermore, genetic studies show that the percentage of white Americans with any black ancestry at all is only 3-4%. And that, even among these, none had more than 5% non-white ancestry. The interesting thing is that this percentage matches the number of immigrants who are known to have a small percentage of African DNA. Those immigrants who you allege made Americans so “whitey white white white white” brought a lot of that admixture with them. According to this study, you’re likely 3-5% “blackey black black black black”. If you don’t think so then take a DNA test like I did. Let science decide.

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3080861/

        destructure

        June 23, 2018 at 6:05 PM

  18. Genetic testing has already affirmed that european Jews are mostly european, over 60%. Whatever orthodox jews or antisemitic altrighters say, we’re all in the same boat.

    I wldnt think of mixed-race people as white per se. A half French/half Kongolese isn’t white in my book or their own book.

    Maciano

    June 20, 2018 at 3:11 PM

  19. I have a colleague whose father is Puerto Rican and whose mother is half Scots-Irish and half Norwegian, and he looks, sounds, dresses and thinks like the quintessential middle-class white guy. He is fluent in Spanish and considers himself Hispanic, but at the same time he has given all three of his children fancy Scandinavian names (derived from Thor and Asgard no less). Yet, according to any HR department or census bureau, he is not actually “White”.

    Mister Triple 800

    June 20, 2018 at 4:03 PM

    • I have always been in a similarly weird spot. My father was born in south america but is neither hispanic nor spaniard. But spanish was my first language. Didn’t speak english (to my mother’s horror) until kindergarten. Unless there was a non-paternal event in my family tree, I’m completely white. I’m thinking of getting one of those 23 and me tests.

      As far as the ‘tent,’ it’s my opinion if you look white enough do be discriminated against or targeted for crime, then you’re white even if your great great great grandmother wasn’t.

      toomanymice

      June 20, 2018 at 4:56 PM

      • There are white looking people with non white looking full siblings and who have non white looking children with a white spouse.

        Magnavox

        June 20, 2018 at 6:28 PM

    • Hispanic and white are two totally different kinds of categories. Hispanic just means coming from a Spanish speaking culture. There are white Hispanics, Asian Hispanics, black Hispanics, Indian Hispanics, and every mixture in between

      Magnavox

      June 20, 2018 at 6:26 PM

  20. As an european, it has been very hard for me to understand who is “hispanic” in US. Is it just people who speak Spanish? People from Mexico with native mestizo blood in them don’t look like white europeans. On the other hand lot of people from Latin America have mostly spanish or southern european blood in them. For me they look just like white europeans.

    tmmm

    June 20, 2018 at 5:24 PM

    • It’s hard to understand because Americans are extremely confused about it. By the dictionary definition, anyone from a Spanish-speaking country is Hispanic (add in Brazil and Portugal for Latino). But, Americans usually assume that Hispanics are like the Mexicans they know, i.e. mestizo. Most people are probably vaguely aware that technically Spaniards-actually-from-Spain are Hispanic but not mestizo, but the idea that there are non-mestizo Spanish-speaking Latin American whites would just sound like it’s probably a contradiction in terms.

      Greg Pandatshang

      June 20, 2018 at 9:01 PM

  21. I had a Jewish friend who once told me he wasn’t white. Mind you this guy looked like a mix between Louis CK and George Constanza.

    GondwanaMan

    June 20, 2018 at 5:25 PM

    • He looks like that now…he wasn’t balding back then.

      GondwanaMan

      June 20, 2018 at 5:37 PM

  22. In 100 years, even most black people will be considered ‘white.’

    swank

    June 20, 2018 at 7:35 PM

  23. Anecdotal, but I know a few mixed white/Hispanic people and don’t really consider them minority in any meaningful sense.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    June 20, 2018 at 7:43 PM

  24. This isn’t going to happen and you know it. The stormfront crowd will never accept people with small amounts of Ashkenazi, Romani, Asian, Mesoamerican, African, or other ancestry.

    SC

    June 20, 2018 at 8:32 PM

  25. Truth is the US is the most open and tolerant country in the world—bar none—my own Canada probably ranks second with Australia, NZ and UK coming in just below. There is a tacit acceptance of new incomers in each of these countries to become “white” if they so choose. As an Indian/Sikh kid growing up in the small towns of interior and northern BC, I never felt anything other than white, and these were also the places I felt the happiest. As an adult living in Vancouver, I’m much more aware of my Indianess, partially because Vancouver’s a remarkably segregated city, but also because Indian culture by its very nature is very exclusionary. The point being, in places like Canada and the US, governments should be encouraging newcomers to integrate, not celebrate their diversity. Societal happiness is based on—amongst others things—social cohesion and that’s a worthy goal to pursue.

    Roli

    June 20, 2018 at 8:41 PM

  26. When I lived in Miami a lot of Latino groups would hate on Cubans because they considered them to be white because they have more money and status. Being or acting “white” within Hispanic culture is aspirational and a class marker.

    B.T.D.T.

    June 20, 2018 at 8:41 PM

  27. I have no particular desire to be autistic about the word “Hispanic”, but mestizo is a very useful word, because they tacitly assume that “Hispanic” means non-white while simultaneously accepting a definition where Hispanics can be of any race. In practice, this is a sub-rational progressive anti-HBD talking point that functions by spreading confusion and uncertainty. “Look,” it becomes possible for them to say, “obviously race isn’t real. Jerry Garcia was technically non-white because he was Hispanic. How can anybody take this stuff seriously?” By the way, I had always assumed that Jerry Garcia was (at least on his father’s side) old-school pre-1950 California Mexican. But, nope, totally wrong: his family were just direct immigrants from Spain to the U.S.

    Greg Pandatshang

    June 20, 2018 at 9:07 PM

  28. So many Latin Americans are not only white but *really* with alabaster skin. Look whiter than lots Irish, Italians and Jews.

    Jimi

    June 20, 2018 at 10:03 PM

  29. From a high-level perspective, “white” is pretty easy to define objectively. Therefore, there isn’t that much wiggle room as far as how big the tent should be. White means European. As it happens, Europe has a fairly distinctive genetic mix which arose a few thousand years ago during the major hybridisation event (i.e. conquest) between the Yamnaya-like people from the east and the previous Early European Farmers. We can call the resulting peoples “Yamnaya-EEF” for additional clarity in the face of debates about what “white” should mean.

    Autists and bad-faith arguers will have lots of questions about edge cases. What about Turks? What about Middle Easterners? etc. etc. (personally, the group that I go back and forth on is Persians). That’s why I say high level. In real life, there are always going to be some fuzzy questions.

    One problem with Hispanic mestizos in the U.S. is that they are an edge case. They often have a lot of white (Yamnaya-EEF) ancestry but, unlike earlier immigrant groups like Italians and Irish, they also have a lot of ancestry that is obviously non-white. So a) they will tend to have lower IQs and b) it will be easier for them to feel like they don’t “fit in” with white people purely on grounds of racial distinctiveness. And yet, at the same time, sometimes they do fit in.

    Here’s an anecdote: my best friend in high school was Central American mestizo, the son of immigrants (who were perhaps amnestied by Reagan. He looked pretty white, could probably pass for Italian if he wanted to, was very intelligent, and generally interacted with white people on “one of us” terms. However, his parents and his brother, who are also intelligent people, looked and acted much more like what you’d expect stereotypical Hispanics to be like. I don’t mean negative stereotypes; they just had a je ne sais quoi that sent the message “you aren’t quite the same as us.”

    It would be much better if the U.S. didn’t have a large mestizo population to figure out how to interact with. But our pre-Trump leaders all knew better than to worry about such matters, I guess.

    Greg Pandatshang

    June 20, 2018 at 10:04 PM

    • P.S. on paper, you could consider Ashkenazi Jews to be another “edge case” of indeterminate whiteness. Indeed, I’ve heard Sean Last say this precisely, comparing Ashkenazim to mestizos in this respect. But this doesn’t seem realistic to me in practice. There’s a big difference between Ashkenazi Jews and mestizos, although both are hybrid populations originating from recent mixture between white (Yamnaya-EEF) people and others. The difference is that mestizos are descended form whites intermarrying with people who are extremely different viz American Indians. Ashkenazi Jews are descended from white Europeans intermarrying with ancient Levantine people, and those ancient Levantine people were themselves an “edge case” because they seem to be pretty closely related to Europeans to begin with.

      I mean, if you met somebody with a Lebanese Christian father and a northern Italian mother, chances are you would think of them as white without a second thought.

      Greg Pandatshang

      June 20, 2018 at 10:14 PM

  30. Whites have little say about who is white. America is dividing into white-haters, and non-white-haters. Mexican-American, Jews, and others may have to choose sides. Most whites are probably happy to have a big tents. But you can’t expect whites to side with people who are attacking whites all the time.

    Roger

    June 20, 2018 at 11:34 PM

  31. I seem to recall that, a few years ago, the media kept referring to this guy:

    …as a “white Hispanic” who was driven by deplorable anti-black racism.

    This “white” guy was once the subject of considerable discussion on this blog:

    But this guy was universally described a “person of color”:

    And so was this guy:

    The crazies on the left don’t seem to have a problem with such bald-faced absurdities.

    Stan Adams

    June 21, 2018 at 1:20 AM


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