Lion of the Blogosphere

Dungeons and Dragons is not autistic

D&D is a social game, and autistic people aren’t social.

* * *

Also, D&D requires imagination, and autistic people have a deficit in imagination.

***

GondwanaMan writes in a comment:

New proposed definition of autism: any activity where the male:female ratio is more than 5:1, and doesn’t involved athletic ability.

So that means that this all-female D&D group isn’t autistic! http://www.laweekly.com/arts/all-female-dandd-campaign-girls-guts-glory-creates-a-safe-space-for-gamer-girls-7828242

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

Posted in Nerdy stuff, Psychology

43 Responses

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  1. It doesn’t even have a negative stigma with the younger generation. A lot of stuff people 35+ think of as nerdy is cool now.

    Alex

    July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

    • The term “autistic” these days in the popular culture means someone who has poor social skills, especially with women and main stream guys. Referring to autistic in the scientific meaning during discussion about culture is a bit autistic.

      Hashed

      July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Referring to autistic in the scientific meaning during discussion about culture is a bit autistic.

      AKA “over-diagnosed”.

      The Undiscovered Jew

      July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

  2. You can’t use autistic as an insult anymore, because everyone has two or three autistic children in their family now and will take offense!

    jjbees

    July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

  3. spoken like a true autistic person.

    eric weinstein's big brother

    July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

  4. As someone who has played a fair amount of D&D, I’d say autists and near-autists are overrepresented, but still a minority of the players, and everyone is always trying to exclude them from their groups. Autists can’t really play D&D properly, instead obsessing over a few details of the game to the exclusion of its heart and soul.

    It’s known that many actors are fans of D&D, including Vin Diesel.

    Overall it’s a nerdier hobby than video games, but probably less nerdy than certain specific video games. It also draws a more female audience than many other nerdy hobbies, especially at a casual level. Casual D&D players might be 20-30% female, while hardcore players are perhaps 5-10% female.

    Compare this to a hobby like Warhammer 40k, which is 100% male as far as I can tell.

    Wency

    July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I don’t pay that much attention anymore, but WH40K seems like one of the few components of popular culture that hasn’t embraced diversity yet. I haven’t noticed any black or gay or women space marines or Imperial Guard commissars yet.

      Gozo

      July 2, 2018 at EDT am

  5. afaik d&d is non-competitive and involves no skill.

    so maybe i should’ve said “gay” rather than “autistic”.

    if you wanna play complicated games start with the least complicated of the complicated games like Axis and Allies or Monopoly.

    btw, there’s a 100% certain strategery for winning if you play the axis, so A&A is kinda broken.

    allan quartermain

    July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

  6. Guess it’s time for another installment of the Cute Girls Shooting Huge Guns videos. This is a small girl, from Australia from the sounds of it, shooting a 338 Winchester Magnum. At least in the US that round is way overpowered for deer and even elk. Its main use is for moose, and it’s also fairly popular among hunting and fishing guides in Alaska for stopping charging brown bears. Even though very few adult men can handle it, this girl does fine.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

  7. So what’s the Dem’s endgame with the “Abolish Ice” stuff?

    Otis the Sweaty

    July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

    • To obtain open borders by removing any enforcement of them.

      • Are you saying that Dems don’t realize that running on such a platform is suicidal? I assume they can’t actually mean what they are saying.

        Otis the Sweaty

        July 1, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I hope you are right and it’s suicidal.

      • you don’t think it’s suicidal?

        Otis the Sweaty

        July 2, 2018 at EDT am

      • Remember how quickly the ideas of gay marriage and transsexual rights went from unthought of to contested to conventional wisdom? Open borders may be on that trajectory.

        Gozo

        July 2, 2018 at EDT am

      • The left can whine and cry over illegals. But the overton window has definitely shifted in our favor. And it’s always good when the opposition makes a big deal out of an issue that favors us.

        Ex-Clinton aide: 84 percent of Americans support turning undocumented immigrants over to authorities

        destructure

        July 2, 2018 at EDT am

      • Actually Jim Jones was fairly popular with these people. That whole murder/suicide thing was obviously just a glitch because he didn’t do it right. When you have a group based entirely on loving your fellow humans, living communally, being guarded by guys carrying machine guns that have total devotion to one charismatic leader, it usually turns out to be a scam or a suicide cult.

        Joshua Sinistar

        July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

  8. A game being social or not does not preclude it from attracting autistic types. Some so called high functioning autistics are social (or try to be) and never shut up. That being said I highly doubt table top d&d is a beacon for autistic personalities and it was out if line for you to be called that in this context.

    toomanymice

    July 2, 2018 at EDT am

  9. D&D on it’s face value should simply attract high IQ people with high creativity and imagination and a longing to escape the monotony of everyday life. It is not an escape for loser guys that can’t get laid because porn is a mch simpler and straight forward substitute for that.

    However since it is the jocks that have a big influence on what is cool, and the jocks tend not to be very high IQ, or creative, they simply dont understand the appeal of D&D so they ridicule it. Which means that creative intelligent teens that would otherwise be attracted to it will shun it if they feel they can get into the cool social circles at school. There are plenty of other creative outlets that are not labeled as nerdy: music, art, skateboarding, etc. You then are left with a D&D core group that are creative but nerdy (ie they hold out no hope if being accepted in the cool circles in the first place) this core group is then filled out with the less intelligent / creative nerds that jump into the D&D bandwagon because they aren’t accepted anywhere else.

    DataExplorer

    July 2, 2018 at EDT am

  10. New proposed definition of autism: any activity where the male:female ratio is more than 5:1, and doesn’t involved athletic ability.

    GondwanaMan

    July 2, 2018 at EDT am

    • “New proposed definition of autism: any activity where the male:female ratio is more than 5:1, and doesn’t involved athletic ability.”

      I would make an exception for certain activities otherwise meeting these criteria if they’re predominately followed by older men. Stamp and coin collecting, for example, or ham radio. I’d also exclude manual crafts such as woodworking and metalworking, in part because they do involve some physical activity but also because they result in the making of tangible objects.

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Actual autism is only 4:1

      Magnavox

      July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I would be remissed to say that crime is overwhelmingly male but non-autistic. So I’ll add that as the only other caveat.

      GondwanaMan

      July 3, 2018 at EDT am

  11. Only classic autistics lack imagination. Aspergers people are known for very vivid imagination & rich fantasy life, though this could be because aspergers is actually not autism at all, but premorbid schizophrenia.

    pumpkinperson

    July 2, 2018 at EDT am

    • “Aspergers people are known for very vivid imagination & rich fantasy life”

      Perhaps they have been misdiagnosed?

      • High functioning autism used to be called childhood schizophrenia (in the 1980s I believe).

        There does seem to be ‘something’ that has variously been called aspergers, pdd, childhood schizophrenia etc. typified by poor social cohesion, obsessive fixations or interests, and exceptional processing/ analytical ability (not necessarily intelligence per se). Whether this something has anything to do with classic autism is just speculation.

        Making matters more confusing is some cases of autism are probably organic brain damage, and some children show signs of profound (classic) autism but inexplicably outgrow it, at least to the point of functionality, shortly before or around puberty.

        toomanymice

        July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Lion, how do you define imagination for autism ?

        I see three different concepts :
        – creativity
        – senses representation without external stimuli (mental imagery : visual, auditive, smell etc )
        – mental representation about other people state of mind (social imagination)

        I would love to know what those aspects really are … Because I test 47 out of 50 in the autism diagnostic test (Baron Cohen) but I never had the kind of social pbs autists have …

        Bruno

        July 3, 2018 at EDT am

      • They could be misdiagnosed, or aspergers could just be a variant of autism with high imagination.

        Because these conditions are defined by a cluster of traits, you don’t need all of them to qualify.

        It’s kind of like race. Most blacks have dark skin, but if we discovered a rare tribe of albino sub-Saharans, we’d still consider them black if they met most the other criteria (kinky hair, broad flat nose, big jaw, large lips)

        Similarly asperger types seem to have vivid imagination & often higher verbal IQ, but meet other autistic criteria like obsessive interests, social awkwardness, taking people too literally etc.

        Anyways, here’s a good discussion on aspergers vs (classic) autism:

        http://paulcooijmans.com/asperger/straight_talk_about_asperger.html

        pumpkinperson

        July 3, 2018 at EDT am

      • “Similarly asperger types seem to have vivid imagination & often higher verbal IQ, but meet other autistic criteria like obsessive interests, social awkwardness, taking people too literally etc.”

        social awkardness etc. is ALSO caused by not being part of same-age peer groups, so people excluded from those peer groups because they are ugly, unathletic, or wathever, develop social awkwardness for reasons having nothing to do with Aspergers Syndrome.

        In fact, I’d say that merely having high IQ and a vivid imagination will make someone get excluded from same-age peer groups if they attend prole schools, so that’s probably what’s happening.

      • Good point. A lot of high IQ kids will be socially awkward because they are too smart for their peers and may be physically small for their age because of delayed puberty as you’ve discussed.

        Your article defining autism as impaired mimicking & distinguishing it from nerdiness made a lot more sense than most theories on this topic.

        On the other hand, some research shows autism is related to high social class, talent for STEM & high IQ genes. But perhaps the researchers have confused autism with nerdiness

        pumpkinperson

        July 3, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “On the other hand, some research shows autism is related to high social class, talent for STEM & high IQ genes. But perhaps the researchers have confused autism with nerdiness”

        Or “autism” is more likely to be overdiagnosed and misdiagnosed for people in higher social classes.

      • Yes, and autism might be more noticeable in the upper class.

        Bernard Crespi argues autism is a high IQ disorder that targets the higher classes, but he may be wrong for the reasons you’ve stated:

        https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2016.00300/full

        pumpkinperson

        July 3, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Actually the DSM-V rolled Asperger’s into Autism so the only difference now is the level of care and therapy they receive. In order to be inclusive, all Aspies are now considered socially dysfunctional idiots that require supervision.
      You know when people hate you its bad, but when they do it out of love, they tell you that Nurse Ratchet is just trying to “help you”.

      Joshua Sinistar

      July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

  12. Dungeons & Dragons is HARD. Not as HARD as Advanced Squad Leader, but only aspies will go through playing a firefight that happened in WWII for ten minutes with a simulation that is so hard and rules oriented it might take all day to play it out.
    The Death of Role Playing Games is a Real Life Example of the Dumbing Down of America. What explains the dearth of hard simulations, game theory and other intellectual activities?
    DIVERSITY. Anything too hard for blacks be EBIL and sheeit. Lets face it, the Lowest Common Denominator is either Brazil or Africa depending on demographics.
    There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch, but Idi Amin and Hugo Chavez supporters don’t care. The future is the Undiscovered Country for the dumb brown idiots that don’t know what they are doing for the rest of today and who view tomorrow with the same sense of unknown as some of you pondering the 30th Century.

    Joshua Sinistar

    July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I’ve been told dwarf fortress is the most complex game in existence.

      toomanymice

      July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “The Death of Role Playing Games is a Real Life Example of the Dumbing Down of America. What explains the dearth of hard simulations, game theory and other intellectual activities?”

      “DIVERSITY. Anything too hard for blacks be EBIL and sheeit. Lets face it, the Lowest Common Denominator is either Brazil or Africa depending on demographics.”

      SJWs ruin everything.

      Oswald Spengler

      July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

  13. I’m autistic… would have to disagree with this. A lot of high functioning autistic people are maladaptive daydreamers and I would argue the high functioning autistic mind can be built for creativity… think of sensory overload: sounds are louder and more precise, colors are brighter and more vivid, textures are much sharper, patterns are easier to recognize, and a lot of us have synesthesia; everything is just much more intense and overwhelming. People take drugs to experience what is just a normal level of sensory input to an autistic person. And since an artist will often perform best when they fall in love with their surroundings; who would make a better artist than someone that can process their environment more intensely, more acutely, than anyone else?

    I don’t play Dungeons and Dragons but have played other tabletop games and I can easily see why autistic people love D&D, the entire game is very compartmental. Look at the alignment system, it takes something as infinitely complex and situational as human morality and compresses it into 9 boxes that categorizes nearly every being. Autistic people love sorting and categorizing, it makes said infinitely complex world much easier to comprehend. Then there’s the lore aspect of it that allows Autistics and Aspies to obsess over and study a fantasy universe in greater detail than most forms of fiction (a reason why science fiction and anime are also associated with autism).

    Joseph

    July 2, 2018 at EDT pm

  14. […] Lion of the Blogosphere blogged that the game Dungeons and Dragons is not “autistic” because it’s a social activity […]


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