Lion of the Blogosphere

The top out-of-sight were #withher

The most top-out-of-sight place in the United States is Nantucket, and we see from the new New York Times voting map that Nantucket went 64% for Clinton and only 29% for Trump.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

Posted in Wealth

133 Responses

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  1. I thought the people that actually live in areas like the hamptons and nantuckets were white proles.

    Magnavox

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

  2. Disagree.

    Nantucket is a tourist destination for SWPLs and even some local proles. And it’s just a summer spot.

    A better example of top-out-of-sight is Hidden Hills, California. The L.A. suburb has the highest household income in the state ($245K). Except for the block where City Hall sits, the entire city is guard gated.

    The real top-out-of-sight places are older, tiny suburbs which you have probably never heard of but which feature expensive mansions on enormous lots (often zoned equestrian) with long driveways and woods that hide everything. The residents are often the descendants of the barons of industry who founded or ran the near-by metropolis.

    Some real TooS places to check out:

    Belle Meade, Tennessee
    Clyde Hill, Washington
    Hunting Valley, Ohio
    Villa Park, California
    Woodside, California

    JA

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Certain areas of the Hudson Valley in NY has a lot of old homes owned by the robber barons of yesteryear.

      JS

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “A better example of top-out-of-sight is Hidden Hills, California. The L.A. suburb has the highest household income in the state ($245K). Except for the block where City Hall sits, the entire city is guard gated.”

      Google Street View is a useful way of determining whether an area is a gated community. If most of the roads in the area are blue-lined showing that they have GSV coverage but then there’s a section without coverage, chances are it’s gated. You also can use GSV in a similar matter to determine the boundaries of military facilities.

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • If you take a drive across the US, how do you know which areas to avoid? I think there was once an app for this but it was taken down. (Other than avoiding Malcolm X Boulevard.) Is there a way to tell beforehand?

        gothamette

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Avoiding areas where the streets are named after famous black people is a good strategy.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • From an old school perspective, any place on the West Coast is too “new” for TOOS.

        Why not just setup your own place in a remote area and call it a TOOS hangout?

        JS

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • So Hidden Hills, Hollywood is home to the Kardashians and the Jenners — No thanks from a TOOS.

        JS

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • “So Hidden Hills, Hollywood is home to the Kardashians and the Jenners — No thanks from a TOOS.”

        Indeed! No TOOS place that.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Wanting the general public kept out of your neighborhood is not the same thing as wanting to be “out of site”.

        J1

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • sight.

        J1

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “If you take a drive across the US, how do you know which areas to avoid?”

        Food stamps accepted here signs on the grocery stores. Dollar stores. High concentration of weave, nail, military surplus, check cashing stores.

        Curle

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Avoiding areas where the streets are named after famous black people is a good strategy.”

        Maybe, but Portland OR, one of the whitest cities in America can’t stop naming arterial for minority heroes who likely never set foot in the place, MLK and Caesar Chavez for example.

        Curle

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Hidden Hills & Encino are full of nouveau rich Hollywood types. You’ll probably find the largest cluster of toos in Newport Beach and Bel Air, but its not like they are clustered in one place. San Marino, CA used to be the actual toos neighborhood of Los Angeles, but its been invaded by asians modernly.

        Alex

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • @curle:
        Your description of Portland is accurate. But with respect to lion’s comment concerning avoiding streets named after famous african-americans….mlk blvd in NE Portland is an excellent example.

        driveallnight

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

    • Villa Park? I dunno, I live in the OC, and the most expensive home in VP is just over $3,000,000. In think it you’re looking for TOOS, you need to go to Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, or Newport Coast.

      Sgt. Joe Friday

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Those coastal areas are too flashy and, frankly, too expensive for the top-out-of-sight (whose family fortunes have, by this point, been dissipated across generations).

        One TooS family I know used to own a prominent seaside parcel, but they sold it to make sure there was enough cash for the cousins to inherit. They all live in elegant inland homes in places like Villa Park.

        JA

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • I agree that if you want to find the TOOS in orange county it’d most likely be Newport Beach. Villa Park is upper middle class.

        Alex

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I recently went to a wedding in Clyde Hill. It’s very nice indeed, but it’s nowhere close to TOOS. It’s full of early Boeing and Microsoft employees who made a killing. Bill Gates’ house was a few blocks away. While I’m sure it’s super nice, it’s not TOOS. All that area I think is new money, but not super new. Otherwise it’s super nice indeed.

      Zack

      July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Here’s an article from ‘05 listing 25 richest Americans and city where they reside. An Honolulu home is featured at $19 million. It appears this home is on an exclusive block but that for TOOS it doesn’t get much larger, community wise, than that.

        http://gotunion.org/cox-sisters-story

        Curle

        July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

      • One wouldn’t think of the West Coast as TOOS. Historically, the West Coast was a place where strivers would set a new stake, that is those who could not hack it in the zero sum game of the East.

        JS

        July 30, 2018 at EDT am

  3. Lion you should watch gossip girl on Netflix. All about attending private school on Manhattan’s Upper East Side & some of the characters want to attend Yale

    pumpkinperson

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Already watched.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • My daughters like that show, also pretty little liars and they (fanatically) love gilmore girls. There’s a podcast with episode by episode analysis called gilmore guys.

        toomanymice

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

  4. This is like saying that the Hamptons is a TOOS area — it isn’t.

    Nantucket is where rich people summer, not where rich people live.

    ipc

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

  5. Nantucket voting shows that most rich lean left. But this is in stark contrast to this recent article from The Economist that suggests the rich use their political influence to reduce taxes and social programs. I trust that voting map a lot more than I trust The Economist.

    https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2018/07/21/as-inequality-grows-so-does-the-political-influence-of-the-rich

    Obviously the rich people who vote GOP want lower taxes. But that map shows most rich people want higher taxes. So why do most rich people support higher taxes while accusing most rich people of wanting lower taxes?

    destructure

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I think a big problem is that people are always playing with definitions of “rich”.

      If you make $300k/year and have net worth in the low 7 figures, you’re in the top 1%, most people would call you rich, but to a billionaire or centimillionaire, you’re basically a street urchin.

      To the low-end millionaire, an incremental change in tax rates can make a huge difference in terms of ability to provide for your family.

      To a billionaire, tax rates are just parlor talk. Whether you pay a 50% rate or a 5% rate on your investment income is mostly academic. Money has no effect on your quality of life, only on your status, and its only one of many factors that affect your status.

      Wency

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I think you mean hectomillionaire. A centimillionaire is a person who has $10k!

        Hermes

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • @Hermes:

        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/centimillionaire

        Hectomillionaire is cacophonic while centimillionaire is euphonic. Both prefixes mean “hundred”, just that centi- is Latin and hecto- is Greek. However, “million” is of Latin origin, and therefore using “centi” is more consistent.

        I’d prefer to honor euphony and consistency rather than the Metric System.

        No one is going to use the word to mean “person having net worth of $10k”, there’s a reason we don’t have a word for that concept, so there’s no real confusion.

        Wency

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • On a slight tangent – I’ve never met a centipede that had just a 100th of a leg.

        Peregrino Nuzkwamia

        July 28, 2018 at EDT am

      • “If you make $300k/year and have net worth in the low 7 figures,“

        If you have $6 million in interest earning assets and can average 5% gains per year you will be ‘earning’ $300k whether you work or not. My question is, how many millions in the bank before you live off your interest?

        Curle

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I was being facetious. However, I didn’t know that Merriam-Webster’s had an entry for “centimillionaire.” And hectomillionaire doesn’t sound that cacaphonic to me. Sounds like you have a heck of a lot of money!

        Hermes

        July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

    • There are different kinds of rich people. Old money families have a vested interest in high income taxes, generous social programs to keep people from getting too ambitious and no estate tax. That keeps the money in the family and makes it more difficult for new money to compete. The old money in places like Sweden and Austria uses this strategy to good effect.

      Peter Akuleyev

      July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Peter Akuleyev

        There is an interesting 9-episode miniseries that came out early in the Spring called “Trust.” It stars Donald Sutherland as John Paul Getty III and it is a fictionalized account of the kidnapping of one of the Getty grandchildren (the father of Balthazar Getty.) It’s basically about how JPG III refused to pay the ransom of $15 million and instead was both bargaining down the price with the Sicilian mafia as well as forcing his son into a loan for the final balance. The net result was the slicing off of the grandson’s ear. All this despite the Getty’s being the wealthiest family in the world at the time (1973.)

        One of the subplots in the series is JPG taking a liking to the grandson when he came to visit his mansion in London, so much so that he took to grooming the grandson as a proper heir to the Getty fortune. To get him started in the business, JPG explained the Getty Oil structure. Getty Oil was held in a family trust and the business was run to maintain the operation as a completely vertically integrated company. This means that Getty Oil did everything in-house in the value chain: from oil exploration, to oil drilling, to oil shipping, to oil refining, to gasoline retailing. There was one particular scene asking why should they contract with Onassis Shipping when they can just buy their own tankers.

        The purpose of this vertically-integrated structure was to operate the trust at a loss on paper, so that it generates no taxable income. As JPG put it, “on paper, the Getty’s are so poor that we qualify for milk stamps.”

        There is a lot going on behind the scenes of rich leftists supporting high taxes.

        map

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “There is a lot going on behind the scenes of rich leftists supporting high taxes.”

        Occams Razor. The simplest explanation is not a secret conspiracy, but rather that they find Republicans disgusting, so they identify as Democrats and they believe what Democrats are supposed to believe because of groupthink.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I’m all for Occam’s razor. But people are capable of all kinds of intricate ideas and schemes where money is concerned. I personally wouldn’t allow greed to supersede my values. But plenty of people would.

        destructure

        July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

    • What the rich really want is a strong libertarian party. If you’re rich and you value your social life, lifestyle, and values more than your bank account, you will vote Democrat. If you’re rich and you value your bank account down to the last dollar more than your social life, lifestyle, and values, then you will vote Republican.

      SC

      July 28, 2018 at EDT am

      • There are plenty of rich republicans with values and plenty of rich democats without.

        destructure

        July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

  6. Nantucket is definitely not the most TOOS place in America, especially in terms of the people who are legally resident there. The most TOOS place in America is… Trump Tower. The most TOOS place in Massachusetts, besides Beacon Hill, is probably Dover, which in 2016 voted for a Democrat (57-32 Clinton) for the first time ever (it even went for Goldwater in ’64).

    snorlaxwp

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

  7. Have you ever thought of a poor man’s TOOS way of life?

    Québec is the poor man’s version of Western Continental Europe.

    Kingston, NY is the poor man’s version of Hipster and SWPL Brooklyn.

    JS

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Continental Europe??? Truth is, outside of Anglo Montreal, Quebec has more in common with continental Michigan.

      Roli

      July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Michigan isn’t a hotbed of anti-american, anti-semitic/israeli protests. There are a lot protests in the French Canadian province that is Anti-Anglo, Anti-American, Anti-Semitic, which are not too different from those in France, Spain and elsewhere in Western Europe. And then there’s a special kind of socialism not found in Anglophone Canada. Subsidized rent, utilities, lower tuition rates than the rest of Canada and gov’t French language programs (which pays non-francophones to learn French so they can integrate into society). This seems more like a European thing than an Anglosphere thing.

        JS

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Quebeckers are really just North Americans who happen to speak French. Apart from some architecture in the old parts of Montreal and Quebec City, it’s no more European than Plattsburgh, NY.

      marck

      July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Interestingly, certain publications published in Québec have a € and that could only mean it’s for sale in the European market.

        JS

        July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

      • That’s what my experience has been too. Of course I never any rich Québécois. My boss at work, in Ottawa (where I lived for eight years) was brought up on a farm across the river in Quebec. He said his father just threw out stuff they sent him in French. The son (my boss) bought some acreage himself nearby but was just a hobby farmer.

        Frau Katze

        July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Quebeckers are really just North Americans who happen to speak French”

        Québec is closer to France than the US or Anglophone Canada is closer to England.

        The French Canadian province is a compact area with many French speaking rednecks, and yes this is true, yet Québec manages to be high brow occasionally where they invite French personalities from France to speak in the talk shows.

        American talk shows are junk and mostly low brow, let alone Brits appear in them.

        Here’s Frédéric Lenoir, a French philosopher who is a mainstay in Parisian talk shows, and he comes over to Québec so he could give a talk about happiness with Guy A Lepage. Not only does he mentions Western Philosophy in a happy context, he talks about how happiness can be achieved in Confucianism and Islamic Mysticism and this is in a mainstream show aired in Québec.

        Notice his accent is a standard “Parisian” French among a crowd of Québecois French.

        JS

        July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

      • And when it comes to income equality, Québec has the lowest gini index in the entire North American region, which mirrors Western Continental Europe whose gini coefficients (measure of income inequality) are lower than that of the British Isles.

        JS

        July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “Québec has the lowest gini index in the entire North American region”

        Because it’s too prole for rich Canadians who prefer more SWPL Toronto. For the same reason, Staten Island has a much lower Gini index than Manhattan or Brooklyn.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

      • Leon beat me to it. But it’s more than that. Economic growth increases the gini coefficient. Places that are prosperous and growing usually have higher gini coefficients. And places that are stagnant usually have lower. And. of course, people who are rich, competent, productive, etc will abandon areas that are stagnant.

        destructure

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

      • @JS “Québec is closer to France than the US or Anglophone Canada is closer to England.”

        That might be true now but not historically.

        The French Canadians on the whole did not want to get involved in either world war, although their mother country was suffering too, and the English were allied the French in both wars,

        They didn’t care, they were highly isolationist.

        Canada entered both wars at the same time as the UK. That was fine with Anglophones but not with Quebec.

        Frau Katze

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

      • Québec isn’t exactly hurting economically. Studies show that the average Québecois middle class family has more disposable income than the average Meriprolestani family after taking free healthcare, low cost rent/utlities and tuition, not afforded to Meriproles.

        To even compare Québec’s low gini index with Staten Island’s gini index is a travesty. The province isn’t exactly an economic wasteland with sprawls of ugly prole homes. It just discourages the type of sociopathic, economic activity that one finds in the Anglosphere.

        Anglo SWPLs/elitist types are punching below their weight and not above their weight. They are on the same level with the middle class of Western Continental Europeans when it comes to quality of life and cosmopolitanism.

        JS

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

      • Here’s a one of those questions being asked on Quora with answers, and it involves the pros and cons of living in Toronto vs Montréal, which basically is what other commenters on this blog with any insight have been saying, except for a few things.

        https://www.quora.com/Why-do-more-people-prefer-to-live-in-Toronto-than-in-Montreal

        1) Québec is a lot more liberal and less diverse than any Anglo Prole region.

        2) Multiculturalism has a lot to do with capitalism and Toronto is a lot more diverse/multicult than Montréal. Capitalism is always a setup for a few winners with many strivers and losers, hence a higher gini index.

        3) Québec is more aesthetically pleasing than the rest of Canada and America, which I have been saying all along.

        JS

        July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

  8. If you want to see the future of American politics, look to the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election.

    Brian Kemp won the GOP nomination by vowing to annihilate Georgia’s immigrant population. He is a Trump style conservative.

    The Democratic nominee is Stacey Abrams: she’s a woman. She’s black. She is part of the establishment but she was not the establishment’s choice, the establishment wanted her much more electable, WHITE, primary opponent Stacey Evans (both candidates were named Stacey).

    Abrams was able to beat Evans largely because the blacks in the primaries bloc voted for her (Abrams). She may have been able to win anyway based of the hunger of the Democratic base for full blown socialism as opposed to neoliberalism but the votes of blacks gave her a crushing victory instead of a narrow one. Given that the establishment unanimously supported Evans, this shows that black voters aren’t as obedient as many of us had thought.

    Black voters are willing to vote for a different candidate then the establishment tells them too under certain conditions:
    1. The candidate is still part of the establishment, even if the establishment would prefer someone else.
    2. The candidate is black and is running against a white person

    We have seen this play out 3 times now: Obama against Hillary, Donna Edwards against Chris Van Hollen in the Maryland Senate primary a few years back and now with Abrams.

    This means that over the next ~10 years, all white Democrats will disappear from statewide office in the South.

    Abrams and Occasio Ortez also show how the Bernie wing can win primaries: find non whites to push the Bernie wing’s socialist message. Non whites are natural socialist so a coalition of socialist whites and ethnic voting non whites is able to overcome the neoliberal whites.

    On ResetEra, they predictably mostly supported Evans because they are neoliberal shills and are smart enough to know that they have to make a pretense of not endorsing white genocide in places like Georgia. They are anticipating that Abrams v Kemp will be the most brutal governor’s race in memory and I agree. Kemp is going to brand her a tax and spend, soft on crime, illegal lover (which she is) and it is going to Abrams among Hillary type white Dems in suburban districts. I predict that Kemp wins by 10 points whereas Trump only won the state by 5. Currently he is ahead by 2.

    Otis the Sweaty

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Also keep in mind that all white Bernie Bros will be alt right within about five years. When all the boomer cat ladies die off there will be very few whites left in the Democrat Party. The brown wave is rising and it is the best thing that could ever happen to the right.

      B.T.D.T.

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I have a bunch of family and friends in Georgia so I’ve been following the race closely. I honestly don’t like either candidate.

      GondwanaMan

      July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • And the worst part about Kemp isn’t that he’s a hardcore redneck (which I’ve known plenty of, they’re not all bad), but that he plans on signing the most hardcore anti-abortion bill in America.

        GondwanaMan

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

    • And you’re right, this will be one of the ugliest governor races in recent memory.

      GondwanaMan

      July 27, 2018 at EDT am

    • “This means that over the next ~10 years, all white Democrats will disappear from statewide office in the South.”

      This seems like a fairly obvious trend. A white male politician doesn’t have much of a future in the Democratic Party, particularly when the current college age crowd starts voting in more numbers. I think we’ve seen the last of a white male Democrat on the top of the ticket for President.

      Mike Street Station

      July 28, 2018 at EDT am

  9. What sort of net worth do these families tend to have?

    archer2220

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Not as much as you might think. Probably a net worth of two million is minimum but many TOOS do not have high earning careers. That is the upper class. TOOS families have already cashed out their businesses and focus on philanthropy or the arts. They may sit on a board or two but are living on dwindling trust funds. Now don’t get me wrong, there are TOOS families like the Rockefellers that are worth billions, but that is not the norm. They drive beat up old Volvos for a reason…because more than a few of them are actually broke. Many of those houses on Nantucket were bought and paid for generations ago and the great grandchildren of the titans of industry who initially built those properties could not afford them today. A very large amount of TOOS offspring are addicts and vacuous dilletantes. They are uniformly liberal for no other reason than it is trendy and it signals status. I met many of these people through my friends who went to small liberal arts colleges in Vermont and Colorado. I am willing to bet that the nouveau riche Republicans that vacation in Naples, Florida are a whole lot richer than the Nantucket crowd.

      B.T.D.T.

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • That’s right, TOOS isn’t the richest class, they just have to be rich enough to afford the TOOS lifestyle.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • According to this page, Paul Fussell defined the Top Out of Sight as the richest class:

        http://wesclark.com/am/class.html

        Hermes

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • TOOS is the highest class, not the richest.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • If they’re not the richest class, what makes them the top class?

        Perhaps they have the richest ancestors of any class.

        Perhaps wealth is to social class as citizenship is to race. Living in Britain doesn’t make you British; having ancestors that lived in Britain makes you British.

        Similarly, being rich doesn’t make you high class; having rich ancestors makes you high class.

        pumpkinperson

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • How do they afford the property taxes?

        gothamette

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Lol good question gothamette

        driveallnight

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

  10. https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/7/24/17599132/james-gunn-fired-gamergate-guardians-of-the-galaxy

    actual quote from article:

    “But the way Gunn was fired sticks in my craw, just a little bit. It’s the biggest example yet of Gamergate and its ilk forcing a major public figure out of the job that made them a major public figure. By stripping events like this of their context, Cernovich and company might think they’re forcing the left to confront its own hypocrisies, or winning smaller battles in a larger culture war, or simply driving critics of the president off social media.

    But make no mistake, they’re also destabilizing reality.

    (emphasis added)

    lol wut?

    Otis the Sweaty

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Otis the Sweaty,

      Well, they should of thought of that before they created the rules.

      If making Jewish jokes makes you an anti-Semite and if making African jokes makes you a racist, then making child molesting jokes makes you a pedophile. Along with Racists and anti-Semites, pedophiles lose their jobs.

      And there are so many pedos in Hollywood, that no number of spinning bowties and cucks like Ben Shapiro will save them.

      Welcome to the crab bowl.

      map

      July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

  11. The rich since the 60’s are motivated by beastly sexuality more than material comfort. They’re the Chads of the world. The top 1% of men want to have sex with the top 4% of women, and they have the top 20% of women available to them. They all vote Democrat because they love sexual degeneracy for the masses and harems for themselves. Their most important allies are the bottom 1% (the Tyrones), who also have sex with the top 20% of women. It’s brain and muscle over heart and guts.

    This party ends eventually because Tyrone carries more foreign genetic weight than Chad, a kind of leverage, and the practice of cucking your own nation’s middle class men relatively doesn’t benefit Chad as much as Tyrone. Over time, underclass sexuality replaces harem sexuality and the elite become degenerate. Maybe after a few centuries of this dark age, the beta males will figure out that monogamy was best the entire time.

    The ultra Orthodox Jews, quite a few of whom still aspire to material comfort of course, see no appeal in acting like animals with money. Like a gold ring in a swine’s snout.

    Anonymous Fake

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “They all vote Democrat“

      In my experience this is mostly limited to the computer tech industry guys. The others trend Republican, particularly the real estate development folks and the defense or transportation guys.

      “They’re the Chads of the world.”

      My sense has been that the Chads are the the guys orbiting the rich but not so rich themselves.

      Curle

      July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Yeah I didn’t think there was a lot of overlap between rich guys and Chads. The rich guys are who beautiful women marry and the Chads are who they sleep with pre-marriage and sometimes cheat with while married.

        From the stats I have seen the super rich vote Democrat the regular rich often vote Republican. Chads are too busy sleeping around to care about politics.

        Jay Fink

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

  12. >The most top-out-of-sight place in the United States is Nantucket

    Lion, you probably think more about TOOS than anyone else, I (and obviously several other commenters) would be interested to know how you came to this conclusion.

    Anon

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I just made it up, but seriously, New England is the most TOOS part of the country, and Nantucket is the most out-of-the way place in New England, you can only get their by plane or a very inconvenient (and not inexpensive) ferry ride.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • What about Nova Scotia up in Atlantic Canada being the poor man’s TOOS hangout for Class X?

        Given the fact that Canada has almost no class or status markers…

        Some place up in Nova Scotia:

        And some overrated area in Nantucket:

        JS

        July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Notice the prole colors in the prole village in Nova Scotia.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Ok, you’re correct. Is there a poor man’s Nantucket anywhere?

        And what about the garish colors painted on those expensive brownstones in certain areas of SWPL Brooklyn or gentrifying Brooklyn?

        JS

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • “Is there a poor man’s Nantucket anywhere?”

        I nominate Shelter Island for a poor man’s Nantucket.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • JS – if Canada has almost no class or status markers, how do you know who to look down on? Or who to suck up to?

        njguy73

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Notice the fag colors in the fag village in Nantucket?

        Ronald McDonald

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • “I nominate Shelter Island for a poor man’s Nantucket.”

        Not far enough into the ocean. I nominate Block Island.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Being not that far off the mainland is what makes it for the poor man, less expensive ferry ride!

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • “JS – if Canada has almost no class or status markers, how do you know who to look down on? Or who to suck up to?”

        It’s more subtle I guess. For example, especially in Québec with its European style welfare, there aren’t neighborhoods that explicitly segregate people based on income and education like the United States.

        And there’s racial diversity and immigrants in Canada for this kind of social dynamic.

        JS

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Got me there.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Looks middle-class to me, not TOOS.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • If you look at Danish and costal Norse architecture in general, it’s made its way to almost every island across the northern Atlantic all the way to Nova Scotia. Then it stopped. Man made lively colors created a human envirinment and help lighten the mood in a climate that was bleak and tended to kill people.

        Drab colors and stripped external asethetics are Puritan, all over New England. Purtains still rule. However, their architecture mostly only survives outside of NE in farm houses and barns!

        ER Whitney

        July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I’ve never been to Nantucket, but from the picture it looks like Bermuda.

        Roli

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

      • Went to a large outdoor event with Guidos last night, and saw one wearing a Shelter Island shirt. So that’s definitely a thing (Lion is right again). Also saw a food booth for a Pizza place located in Howard Beach. Had to get some; it was tasty. Went home and felt inspired to watch “Do The Right Thing” (which I had never seen).

        DTRT was made after the 1986 unrest in Howard Beach but was not specifically about those events. DTRT manages to be relevant to numerous events which happened in the decades that followed (in particular, I thought it foreshadowed the ’92 Los Angeles riots). DTRT does this in large part by focusing on character development and not being too preachy. It is possible for two different people to watch the movie and come to totally different conclusions about who is ultimately at fault for the events which occur at the film’s climax.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        August 3, 2018 at EDT pm

  13. There once was a top out of sight from Nantucket …
    No, it just doesn’t work.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    July 26, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Although I think a TOOS getaway should be devoid as many people to suits its purpose. Nantucket is not that.

      And being Class X, you would want travel to a place that is similar to TOOS, simply a place with no apparent strivers.

      I still think Nova Scotia has a few spots that could mimic nearby Dark Harbor in Maine, which is definitely TOOS.

      Cape Breton Island which is hurting for people, one of its residents was encouraging Americans to move up there, if Donald Trump wins.

      JS

      July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Nantucket used to be nice, but cram that many people into it, and it’s a high-rent Coney Island with no skee-ball in the summer.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

  14. Somehow I doubt the real TOOS are active voters. The true top (not the urchin millionaires as noted above, but the ultra rich) is so checked out from the real world that voting doesn’t register on any horizon for them, no pun intended.

    If they happen to care about some political cause or another they’ll dump money on it or start a charitable foundation.

    toomanymice

    July 27, 2018 at EDT am

  15. My impression has long been that Nantucket is where the upper class and some of the upper-middle-pretenders summer, and Maine is where the TOOS class summers. How elite can coastal Massachusetts be if attorney Alan Dershowitz has a social group there? Its nice enough, but brother and his prole friends used to spend summers (working) in Nantucket. I think that its too accessible to qualify as the top TOOS summer spot, imo only.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/05/scarborough_why_is_dershowitz_surprised_marthas_vineyard_shunning_him_hes_undermining_mueller.html

    https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/g772/the-bush-family-in-kennebunkport-maine/

    Sam

    July 27, 2018 at EDT am

    • *my brother

      Sam

      July 27, 2018 at EDT am

    • “How elite can coastal Massachusetts be if attorney Alan Dershowitz has a social group there?”

      He’s in Martha’s Vineyard, the more flashier and less TOOS island.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 27, 2018 at EDT am

      • Kingston NY is a pseudo-SWPL Brooklyn, but along the Hudson river nearby, there are homes owned by old money tycoons.

        JS

        July 27, 2018 at EDT am

  16. Nantucket is not that TOOS. There’s other places in New England that are way more TOOS.

    GondwanaMan

    July 27, 2018 at EDT am

    • Dark Harbor in Maine seems to be that place.

      Nova Scotia could be a poor man’s TOOS, but there’s a lot of proles, and Atlantic Canada is the proliest area in Canada to begin with. But it’s a lot more orderly and aesthetically pleasing, relatively comparing to our prolevilles in Meriprolestan.

      JS

      July 27, 2018 at EDT am

  17. What’s the most abject BOOS (Bottom-Out-of-Sight) community in America? East St. Louis, MO? Chester, PA? Camden, NJ?

    Polar Bear

    July 27, 2018 at EDT am

    • BOOS are people in prison. Above them are the people lying in the street, they are destitute but in-sight. I could only wish that the police would make them get out of sight.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Well, then…what is the most destitute community in the United States…in your opinion? The worst of the worst?

        Polar Bear

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • You should do more posts on vagrants. It drives me crazy that our society allows people to just lie around on sidewalks, park benches, and lawns, or stand in the medians of roads holding a sign and panhandling, and nobody seems to think there’s anything wrong with it except insofar as they blame it on mean old Republicans for refusing to provide more governmental social services.

        Hermes

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • They say say the vast majority of homeless are either crazy or druggies. For the mentally ill , re-open the public mental hospitals that Reagan supposedly closed. For the drug addicts, send them to prison. Hard drugs are illegal in the U.S, let’s enforce that.

        Some might be thinking all these new funny farms and prisons would be expensive. I say it’s totally worth it not to have to deal with the homeless anymore. Imagine how nice it would be not to have to see them or get hustled by them anymore.

        Jay Fink

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • We need the willpower to deal with the problem. We think it violates their “rights” if the police force them into their car and then drive them to a less desirable part of town and drop them off there, like they used to do.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • We also think it violates their “rights” to make them stay in state mental hospitals (for the mentally ill) or prison (for the drug addicts.)

        Hermes

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

    • The most “BOOS” place I’ve ever seen in America was a Pima Indian reservation in Arizona. It was more depressing than any of the inner-city ghettos I’ve been to. Those at least have some energy and signs of life, even post-apocalyptic ones like Detroit or Gary, IN. And they register in the American consciousness. I don’t think the average person has any idea how bad some of the Indian reservations are.

      I didn’t feel at all unsafe there, but it was pretty horrifying. Nearly-universal unemployment, and no business or civic activity of any kind (apart from a small casino). Massively obese people living in hovels, wasting their days sitting in crappy lawn chairs in their garbage-strewn yards in the desert.

      Anonymous

      July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I have a friend who is a social worker on an Indian reservation. He says his clients get their Indian checks and party hard for a few days. They rent out hotel rooms and binge drink. Then for the rest of the month they are broke, hungry and often homeless. Then they get their next check and repeat the cycle all over again.

        The more mainstream Native Americans I know are pretty likeable though…very chill, calm and down to earth. They aren’t as crime prone as some other minorities are. Although their community definitely has a big alcohol problem and that’s what gets them in trouble. If Jews are the best at handling alcohol, American Indians are the worst.

        Jay Fink

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Don’t forget the indians falling down drunk in the street in broad daylight. Indian Reservations are the worst of the worst.

        Two in the Bush

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Effectively they have Universal Basic Income…

        Dr Hook

        July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Your description describes exactly what Canadian Indian reservations look like as well. As a percentage of the total population, I believe Canada has more Indians than the US, and according to wiki they currently number 4.3% of the entire population here. Indians are to Canada what blacks are to the US, a large, unassimilated minority that is significantly down and out. Liberal Canadians—which is to say most Canadians—are fond of disparaging the US for many reasons and most especially for the abysmal living condition of some of its black citizens—which of course is attributed directly to America’s uncaring, right wing, capitalist nature. I sometimes like to pop their bubble by reminding them that on almost every important metric (education, unemployment, income, incarceration and lifespan) American blacks score better (and on some measure significantly better) than Canadian Indians—with easily available stats to back me up.

        Roli

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

      • Perhaps American blacks do better than 1st Nations due to their living environments.

        blacks tend to live in urban areas as a parasite or close to them and 1st nation communities are usually far away in rural isolated areas similar to the living arrangements of the lowest of prole whites in America.

        JS

        July 29, 2018 at EDT am

      • @JS

        I think you’re right and HBD plays into it as well, with blacks having better cognitive skills than First Nations people. Liberals generally and liberal Canadians particularly have painted themselves into a corner by arguing that all races are equally gifted and racial inequality only ever stems from racism, so how then to explain that Canada (a country ostensibly less racist than the US) does worst for First Nations than the US does for blacks. FYI, from what I’ve read Canadian First Nations people are also worst off than their US counterpart.

        Roli

        July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

      • @Roli The situation with Canadian 1st Nations isn’t very good. But I’m not sure what can be done.

        The rate of alcoholism is high, because they were suddenly exposed to alcohol with no time to evolve some defences. The rate of alcoholism in a group seems to depend partly on long ago they began agriculture.

        Agriculture provided the raw material (grains, grapes) with which to make the stuff. But it would be strongly selected against at the alcoholic level. Think of how poorly the children with an alcoholic mother would do, before modern times.

        There is little alcoholism in those parts of the Middle East that farmed, starting a long long time ago.

        You can see a pattern in Europe: Ireland, Scotland and Russia all have serious problems with alcoholism but the rate isn’t as high as for the 1st Nations. Agriculture reached them later than the Fertile Crescent, but still centuries ago.

        So I’m not holding these unfortunate people to blame for the affliction. I just don’t think anything can be done. With the current rates, I don’t see how accurate IQ testing could even be done. If the mother drinks a lot during the pregnancy, the baby will have Fetal Alcoholism Syndrome.

        Frau Katze

        July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

      • @Frau Katze

        I am sympathetic to their plight, I just don’t like liberals using them as a prop to prove a point.

        Roli

        July 30, 2018 at EDT am

      • @Roli I wasn’t suggesting that you personally had that reaction.

        But some people do have a reaction like that for all addictive behaviour.

        Note that a lot of the substances that can create modern addictions like the opioid problem are drugs that only very recently even existed.

        The opium poppy has been around for a long time, but concentrated opioids like heroin were only created in the late 1800s.

        Same deal with cocaine. People living in the area where the coca plant grows (parts of South America) often chewed on the leaves, that produced a mild high, but not at the addictive level.

        But concentrated cocaine is also a very recent, and much more destructive.

        Frau Katze

        July 30, 2018 at EDT am

      • @Roli Yes, I’ve noticed how liberals misinterpret things like widespread alcoholism on reservations. It’s somehow our society’s fault, goes their reasoning. That won’t solve anything but will confuse the issue.

        Frau Katze

        July 30, 2018 at EDT am

  18. Wealthy blacks summer in Oak Bluffs on Martha’s Vineyard, but only make up 2.5% of the year-round population.

    WaPo, 08/20/09 – Oak Bluffs, Mass., Is Where the Black Elite Is at Home in the Summer

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/19/AR2009081904045.html?noredirect=on

    As a kid, I spent many great summer visits to Plum Island, MA

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Island_(Massachusetts)

    Deplorable Prole

    July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

  19. I don’t think Nantucket is top out of sight. I believe it’s mostly new money types these days.

    Tom

    July 27, 2018 at EDT pm

  20. Top Out of Sight – Billionaires and multi-millionaires. The people so wealthy they can afford exclusive levels of privacy. We never hear about them because they don’t want us to.

    Upper Class – Millionaires, inherited wealth. Those who don’t have to work. They refer to tuxes as “dinner jackets.”

    Upper Middle – Wealthy surgeons and lawyers, etc. Professionals who couldn’t be described as middle class.

    Middle Class – The great American majority, sort of.

    High Proletarian (or “prole”) – Skilled workers but manual labor. Electricians, plumbers, etc. Probably not familiar with the term “proletarian.”

    Middle Prole – Unskilled manual labor. Waitresses, painters.

    Low Prole – Non-skilled of a lower level than mid prole. I suspect these people ask “Would you like fries with that, sir?” as a career.

    Destitute – Working and non-working poor.

    Bottom Out of Sight – Street people, the most destitute in society. “Out of sight” because they have no voice, influence or voter impact. (They don’t vote.)

    Oswald Spengler

    July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Middle Class to Upper Class consists of Proles, SWPLs, Yuppies, Class X and Hipsters — Fussell could not foresee the evolution of American Class categorization. And then there’s proles who are Hipsters, Class X and Yuppies…and it gets very messy.

      JS

      July 28, 2018 at EDT pm

  21. it’s sad than anyone thinks hillary was a liberal or a leftist or that identity politics is left-wing. it’s divide and conquer. you can fool almost all of the people all of the time. those toos folks weren’t bernistas. i guarantee.

    the rich are not leftists by definition. what kind of 1984 can america be that someone would say that?

    it’s like this: wokeness is just a way of putting themselves above the bad whites and diverting attention from economic matters. can’t hate blacks. must hate poor whites.

    the elite that has governed the US since the late 60s is both incompetent and evil. it has no concern whatsoever for ordinary americans. it will not reform itself. trump has the military. cross your fingers he’ll be our own pinochet.

    luke ford

    July 29, 2018 at EDT am

  22. It seems to me that people who inherited their money don’t appreciate their good fortune so much, and are therefore perhaps more likely to be ok with giving it away via voting for the higher taxing dems.

    But if you scratched and clawed to get rich on your own, without family money? You remember how hard you worked to make it to where you now are, and the idea of giving it away to the govt really, really pisses you off.

    Eye of the tiger, man. Don’t ever go soft and lose the eye of the tiger.

    driveallnight

    July 29, 2018 at EDT am

  23. Prole drift, or elite drift?

    (note the blue dot on the 2012 graph)

    IHTG

    July 29, 2018 at EDT am

    • SWPL drift and anti-SWPL drift.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 29, 2018 at EDT am

    • Yawn. The threshold dropped from 85% in ‘12 to 65% in ‘16. In other words, a really small number of precincts, those with 85% white voters with degrees grew to add a few more from a small universe (precincts with 65+% degrees).

      Curle

      July 29, 2018 at EDT am

    • 1. trump is a threat to the well off.
      2. educational attainment in the US selects for traits in addition to intelligence, namely, obedience, docility, conformity, and amorality.

      luke ford

      July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Educational attainment in America is a joke if you think learning institutions are about learning. They are market driven where the students are seen as consumers. Worse, many American higher educational centers are ESPN Sports Bars.

        Only consumers with traits of obedience, docility and conformity would believe wholeheartedly that American schools are giving them bang for their buck.

        Capitalism is all about money and college professors see their positions to profit from it. Proles are its worse victims as seen in this video when it comes to higher education:

        JS

        July 30, 2018 at EDT pm

  24. I have a question about the net-worth people keep talking about on this blog to differentiate whether one is rich or not? what line items do you include in the net worth? do you include 401Ks and retirement accounts? Is it individual net worth or household net worth (including spouses)?

    if 401k and retirement accounts are included its quite easy for a lot of folks to cross say 2 million (and extremely easy to cross 1m USD) with that person being just lower middle class or middle class.

    mpt

    July 29, 2018 at EDT pm

    • This is only my opinion, but I think income and net worth should be household income and net worth should include every thing one owns. Having said that, $250K household income and $2M net worth is middle class at best. Rich is also relative and depends a lot on age and location. $500K income and $10M is pretty good for someone who’s 30 and single. But not so much for a middle aged couple. $500K income and $10M is pretty good for someone living in a small town with a low cost of living. But not as good for someone living in a large city with a high cost of living.

      Some of that has to do with there being more rich people in large cities. And that doesn’t mean there’s a higher proportion of rich people in cities, either. They may well be a much lower percentage of the population. But there’s a lot more rich people because there’s a much larger population. And rich doesn’t seem as rich when there’s a lot more rich people around.

      There’s a great scene in Father of the Bride starring Steve Martin. The guy owns a company and is pretty well off. His daughter comes home and says she wants them to meet her fiance’s parents. The father is thinking, “Oh, great. Some free-loader who I’m going to have to create a position for in my company.” But when he goes to meet the young man’s family, her father realizes that he’s not nearly as rich as he thought.

      destructure

      July 29, 2018 at EDT pm


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