Lion of the Blogosphere

Saudi Arabia

with 54 comments

I really appreciate the Trump administration’s realpolitik. Obama would be doing something stupid right now if he were president. Trump understands that all Islamic countries in the Middle East are run by scum, but we need to support the scum who are on our side.

The guy who was killed, Jamal Khashoggi, was a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Muslim Brotherhood are not the good guys. Secularists are the good guys. Saudi Arabia has been shifting to moderate Islam, so they are moving in the right direction. Trump is wise to try to downplay this incident.

Nevertheless, the Saudi Arabians did a really stupid thing here.

For the record, I support the right of free speech, and I worry that extreme leftists in the United States, like Antifa people, will start doing to people they call “alt-right” what Saudi Arabia did to Khashoggi.

* * *

Also, remember that half a million people died in the Syrian civil war. Much safer to live in Saudi Arabia where the secret police kill only a tiny fraction of that number. Which doesn’t mean that I approve of what Saudi Arabia did.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

October 12, 2018 at EDT am

Posted in International

54 Responses

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  1. I know this is a lost cause and some people probably think it’s Aspieish, but I once again request that when you post on some current event that is not the main thing going on the news, you include a link to an article so readers know what the heck you’re talking about without having to start googling things ourselves.

    Hermes

    October 12, 2018 at EDT am

    • Turkey says they have audio of him being tortured and killed inside Embassy. So what will Trump demand the Saudi’s do? Compensation for family would seem to be given, and then maybe some sort of sanction that helps with oil prices perhaps?

      PerezHBD

      October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • How did they get audio? Did they have a live feed and not tell anyone? Did they have a spy? Why didn’t he tell them what was going to happen? I demand answers!

        Joe

        October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Turkey is probably spying on the Saudi embassy like they spy on all embassies. Turkey is playing their hand now because they hate Saudi Arabia for some reason.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “because they hate Saudi Arabia for some reason.”

        Persians, Turks and Arabs are the three main powers fighting to control the middle east and have been for thousands of years. They’ve always hated each other. Haven’t you seen Lawrence of Arabia (1962) ???

        destructure

        October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • This has been a big news story, Turkey is outraged!
      And Erdopig probably has had lots of people killed and tortured (it’s what Muslim leaders do)so he is a massive hypocrite.

      Rosenmop

      October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • I passionately agree.

        destructure

        October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Erdogan wouldn’t be stupid enough to murder somebody Tarantino-style in his own Embassy. And when you combine it with the bizarre kidnapping of the Lebanese Prime Minister and the wacko plan to build a moat around Qatar it definitely raises the question of whether this is the guy we want ruling Saudi Arabia for the next 50 years.

        PerezHBD

        October 13, 2018 at EDT pm

  2. What is so special about it? The US killed more than 100 million people since the beginning of the 20th century.

    My 2¢

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Yes but those were all bad people who deserved to die.

      Joe

      October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • And Trump killed more than 50 million of those – by his own hand!

      There’s actual video!

      gda

      October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I think you have the US confused with Communist regimes.

      Oswald Spengler

      October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Or he’s been reading Think Progress

        Mike Street Station

        October 13, 2018 at EDT am

      • It participated in about 500 wars since 1900. 100 million is a conservative estimate.

        My 2cc

        October 14, 2018 at EDT am

  3. What matters is that Western civilization upholds its hegemony. Whatever means necessary. We need political stability in the region. So what if Saudi Arabia kills a dissident?

    Israel needs security and we need the oil. That’s the important parts.

    xyagnostos

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

  4. i agree with lion that if the arab world were more democratic this would mean someone like osama would be elected everywhere.

    i disagree that the US should spend lives and treasure to prevent this.

    the longer it’s held back the worse the flood.

    oil is going to $0 in the long term.

    better to rip off the bandage now.

    the rebel yell

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “i disagree that the US should spend lives and treasure to prevent this.”

      Saudi Arabia is selling us cheap oil, then using the profits to buy our weapons, then using them to bomb crazy Islamists in Yemen. Win-win-win situation!

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • ” Win-win-win situation!”

        Yep! It’s a win-win-win for us and them, too!

        destructure

        October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

      • The defense industry is playing a huge role in gutting American competitiveness. So much expertise and capital is sunk into defense related stuff it is seriously hurting our ability to compete in “real” industry. Academia and a lot of high tech industrial activity is so warped by DoD funding such that we wind up less able to produce the next generation of profitable products. Slash defense spending and stop selling arms internationally. The sooner the better.

        Yemen is full of literal morons who sit around high on khat literally all day. They pose zero threat to anyone, well anyone who isn’t dumb enough to deliberately import them. I have no idea why the Saudis are bombing the shit out of them. Can anyone explain? What they are doing doesn’t even make sense from a military perspective if the Yemenis weren’t harmless retards. They are murdering civilians en mass, which is a pretty reliable way to produce terrorists.

        bobbybobbob

        October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

  5. >I really appreciate the Trump administration’s realpolitik. Obama would be doing something stupid right now if he were president.

    I’m certainly no Obama fanboy, but I give him credit for standing up to significant factions of the Establishment that wanted to get us into more wars/entanglements/escalations. In other words, he wasn’t a complete nincompoop on foreign policy (he learned something after Libya).

    Had Clinton won, she was going to “fix” that.

    anon

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “but I give him credit for standing up to significant factions of the Establishment that wanted to get us into more wars/entanglements/escalations.”

      Sheeeit. He lit matches all over the middle east. And p*ssied out in Creimea/Ukraine with the Soviets as the far east with China. China invaded and massacred people on several islands that belonged to Vietnam and Philippines. That’s why Duterte was publicly calling Obama a “motherf*er” and “son of a b*tch”. If not for Trump. America’s credibility would be non-existent,

      destructure

      October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

  6. The Syrian war wouldn’t have been protracted as it is without Saudi/US meddling..

    Kaz

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

  7. This morning on Morning Joe they spent about 25 minutes on Khashoggi. It was totally out of proportion to the actual importance of the story. A Saudi citizen is killed by the Saudi government in Turkey…and why is this a big deal? They kill their own citizens all the time, regardless of who is President.

    This is the media thinking it’s the most important institution in the world. He worked for the Washington Post, so Eugene Robinson is outraged, but there is no reason in particular that Trump or the rest of the country should be.

    Realpolitik is right. That is one of the features of US foreign policy that has been missing for a long time that Trump is bringing back into fashion. I’m old enough to remember when Realpolitik was the Republican foreign policy philosophy, before it got all liberate-everyone.

    Mike Street Station

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • Chopping a dissident to pieces in a foreign consulate is an extremely interesting and sensational news story. You need to acknowledge that. This just highlights something that many people forget- that Saudis have an average IQ on par with sub-Saharan Africans. These are incredibly stupid and brutal people who just lucked upon the largest oil reserves in the world and if it weren’t for that they’d be the hick version of Yemen.

      If they wanted this guy dead, all they needed was for their 15 man assassin team to stage a “robbery gone wrong” in his apartment. Or inject him with some heart attack potion on the streets. Or set a car bomb. Or just shoot him dead while he walked the streets at night. Chopping him up in your own Embassy and flying him back to Saudi Arabia in pieces is only something a Saudi or African would think a good idea.

      We should have conquered Saudi Arabia a half century ago. Let the Arabs run the Holy Cities but we administer the oil.

      PerezHBD

      October 13, 2018 at EDT am

      • > These are incredibly stupid and brutal people

        The citizens, sure, but the Saudi royal family is not stupid. You can’t be stupid and hold the kind of power and international sway they have continuously for 80 years.

        bobbybobbob

        October 13, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I misread the words “Morning Joe” as “Morning Joey.”

      I have nothing to add except that, and I hope it brightens your day.

      gothamette

      October 13, 2018 at EDT am

      • The media are trying to turn this into a Big Deal.

        Anything they can do to nail Trump. Anything. If it rains, they’ll blame him.

        gothamette

        October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

  8. Did you not read Lawrence Auster all those years? There’s no such thing as moderate Islam!

    Hermes

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • “There’s no such thing as moderate Islam!”

      Of course there is. Radical muslims want to kill you. And moderate muslims want radical muslims to kill you.

      destructure

      October 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Ha-ha.

        Moderate Muslims will sell you the hijab at 50% off.

        gothamette

        October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

  9. We should mind our own business and not meddle in private matters of be it Saudi Arabia or China or Russia or India.

    wt

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I agree. And as part of that policy we should deport all you motherfuckers.

      destructure

      October 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “all you motherfuckers.”
        See I am not from Alabama or Kentucky. LOL

        mpt

        October 14, 2018 at EDT am

      • No need to get defensive. I’m not prejudiced. As far as I’m concerned you’re every bit as good as the blacks.

        destructure

        October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • @destructure
        Yeah and wish the Indians had told your ancestors to eff off back to whatever shithole European country they came from.

        Avidaman

        October 15, 2018 at EDT am

  10. “The guy who was killed, Jamal Khashoggi, was a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Muslim Brotherhood are not the good guys.”

    The Saudi media is trying to connect Jamal Khashoggi to the Muslim Brotherhood, but the evidence is really weak. Most of their arguments are based on who Khashoggi’s fiancé follows on Twitter.

    Jamal Khashoggi was the editor of the Saudi paper Al Watan for 52 days in 2003. He was fired by the ministry of information because he had allowed a columnist to criticise Taymiyya (1263 – 1328), an Islamic scholar considered the founding father of Wahhabism.

    In 2007 he was again made the editor-in-chief of Al Watan. In 2010 he was fired again apparently for allowing a column critical of Salafi premises as well as articles critical of the Saudi Arbia’s harsh Islamic rules.

    MikeCA

    October 12, 2018 at EDT pm

    • The British journalist John R. Bradley, a very harsh critic of the Saudis, who is an expert on the country and was Khashoggi’s coworker for three years, describes him as “a de facto leader of the Saudi branch [of the Muslim Brotherhood].”

      snorlaxwp

      October 13, 2018 at EDT am

      • You really need to understand Salafism, Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood.

        Salafism is a theology that holds the Muslims should act like Muhammad and the first generation of followers. This means men should grow beards and women should dress very conservatively. Salafist believe that jihad should be used against non-Muslims to expand Islam as Muhammad did.

        Wahhabism is a kind of Salafism which is the official religion of Saudi Arabia. Wahhabism advocates jihad against non-Wahhabist Muslims as well as non-Muslims, although the official Saudi variant of Wahhabism has watered this down. In 1801 Wahhabist forces attacked the Holy City of Karbala in Iraq and massacred thousands of Shiites, including women and children. This attack is the core of the hatred between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

        The Muslim Brotherhood is an organization that describes itself as Salafist, but most Salafist disagree. The Muslim Brotherhood is more pragmatic and makes adjustments for modernity. The Muslim Brotherhood believes in jihad, but as something to be used late in the struggle and they de-emphasis it now. They claim they have the same end goals as other Salafist, but they have a more incremental strategy for getting to that end goal. The Muslim Brotherhood is opposed to using jihad against other Muslims.

        All of these groups and theologies are competing for Suni Muslims. Groups like ISIS and al Qaeda are mostly Wahhabist. Saudi Arabia has been using its oil wealth to fund Wahhabist outreach all over the world, spreading hatred of both the west and other Muslims like Shiites. Terrorist groups draw their recruits from Wahhabist schools throughout the Muslim world.

        Khashoggi was a critic of Salafism and Wahhabism as practised in Saudi Arabia. The Muslim Brotherhood was initially viewed favourably by Saudi Arabia, but they had a falling out after the first Gulf War. In 2014 the Saudi government declared the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist group.

        The main terrorist groups that pose a threat to the West are the Wahhabist groups. The Muslim Brotherhood is not a friend of the west either, but it is the Saudi’s pouring money into the spread of Wahhabism that is the big threat to the west and to stability in the Middle East.

        MikeCA

        October 13, 2018 at EDT pm

      • And it turns out that the source for this “story” is not exactly trustworthy. Think MB + AQ.

        gda

        October 14, 2018 at EDT am

      • I read a book by Bradley a few years ago and got the feeling he was a British homo living a discreet gay life in Araby.

        gothamette

        October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • Wahabbi, Salafi, Khasoggi…..

        T.E. Lawrence: “So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people – greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are.”

        Rayciss. Yawn.

        gothamette

        October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • “You really need to understand Salafism, Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood.”

        Funny that in educating us yokels you fail to mention that Khashoggi’s Muslim Brotherhood sees the “democratic process” as merely a means to an end – absolute power. One person, one vote, one time. We can pretty much handle the real crazies – ISIS, as Trump has demonstrated. The MB are the insidious ones.

        You also failed to mention that the founder of the MB (Mohammed al-Banna) was a great admirer of Adolph Hitler. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (a close associate of al-Banna) was the man who convinced Hitler to exterminate the Jews of Europe.

        So you seem to be left in a rather awkward position of pumping the tires of the MB, whose ultimate goal is no different from ISIS et al – to exterminate Jews. Although no doubt Christians will follow.

        On a site who commenters seems predominately Jewish, that seems a bit puzzling.

        gda

        October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

  11. Obama was not naive, he was actively supporting the Muslim brothers in Egypt and Turkey and was Shia extremist. I think it is because he was actually an antisemite after years of indoctrination by Jeremiah right. But nobody made a big deal out of him attending and antisemite church, unlike one sentence of Trump in a locker room which suppose to testify for his character.

    Hashed

    October 13, 2018 at EDT am

  12. FDR: “He may be a son of a bitch, but he’s our son of a bitch.”

    Anthony

    October 13, 2018 at EDT pm

  13. You call this realpolitik? Wahhabism destabilize the whole world, so instead of checking its spread, USA all but guarantees Saudis survival and sells it billions in military hardware. While Wahhabism is banned and persecuted in most republics of the former Soviet Union, while US supports the regime that teaches hatred of the West and terrorism all over the world. This is crowing to big oil and defense industry and is a perfect example of what’s wrong with this county. Even 911 didn’t affect any soul searching or change in policy. This isn’t real politic – it’s a sell out of the county.

    Yakov

    October 14, 2018 at EDT am

    • Cowing to big oil.

      SHAME!

      Yakov

      October 14, 2018 at EDT am

      • Yakov.
        Wise man said, “There are no permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent interests.”
        Do you really think its wise to start a geopolitical mess just because some stupid journalist was killed.

        wt

        October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

    • I don’t mean that US shouldn’t sell weapons to the Saudis or be in alliance with them or worry about this journalist, but as the price for its support the US should have put an end to massive Wahhabist propaganda in the Muslim countries. 911 terrorists were nurtured in Saudi Arabia not in Afghanistan. Look at just how stupid this country is: Saudis suffer no consequences for the death of 3,000 Americans, but maybe subject to sunctions because they killed 1 (sic!) of their own.

      Yakov

      October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

      • History gives us opportunities to accomplish big things like that, and our opportunity was right after 9/11.

        Mike Street Station

        October 15, 2018 at EDT am

  14. The Saudis are idiots. Now they are threatening Trump and the US to shut up or the Saudis will destroy our economy.

    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2018/10/14/OPINION-US-sanctions-on-Riyadh-means-Washington-is-stabbing-itself.html

    Kind of puts Trump in a bind, he will now look soft if the doesn’t do something.

    Peter Akuleyev

    October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

  15. This is Saudi Arabia’s problem. Trump has no business getting involved in this.

    grey enlightenment

    October 14, 2018 at EDT pm

  16. Muslim bortherhood people wants democracy in Islam to move to Sharia.

    Sharia law forbids any legislative power. All laws are in the Coran as interpreted by Judges and High Counsel, Khadis and Oulemas.

    So Westerners have absolutely no business in protecting a sharia law advocate whose nationality is saudi. If they deny it, take it to their word. Turkish islamist and Qatari are absolutely not better than Saudis. It is the same.

    Bruno

    October 14, 2018 at EDT pm


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