Lion of the Blogosphere

Primitive tribe converts Christian missionary to atheism

Frau Katze wrote in a comment:

Supernatural forces: if anything, we are hard wired to believe them. When was the last time any missionary anywhere met a remote tribe who proceeded to lecture the missionaries because this was an atheist tribe?

Well, it happened!

[Dan Everett] travelled to the Amazon in the 70s to bring the tribe “the joy of faith” only to discover that they were a deeply contented people. In fact they seemed far better contented than he was.

Tribe members asked the missionary whether he had seen or experienced any of the things he was telling them about. He had to admit that he hadn’t; that he was simply passing things onto them that were told to him by people who hadn’t seen or experienced them either.

According to The New Yorker:

He threw himself into missionary work, translating the Book of Luke into Pirahã and reading it to tribe members. His zeal soon dissipated, however. Convinced that the Pirahã assigned no spiritual meaning to the Bible, Everett finally admitted that he did not, either. He declared himself an atheist, and spent his time tending house and studying linguistics.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

Posted in Religion

82 Responses

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  1. I suspect that missionaries are more neurotic than the general population.

    Richard

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Probably.

      MoreSigmasThanYou

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Agreed. It’s all a very interesting story, but he will probably convert back later in life when he realizes that he only de-converted because his original reasons for believing were not great ones in the first place, and so he was thrown for a loop when those were challenged.

      The other likelihood is that he became sexually involved with the natives, illicit sexual behaviour being the most common real reason (vs. professed reason) for de-conversion.

      S.J., Esquire

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • He’s 67, if he’s gonna convert back, it’d have to happen pretty soon.

        Alexander Turok

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • According to his Wikipedia biography he only converted to Christianity when he was 17, and a year later married a girl missionary whose parents were both missionaries. Naturally he becomes a missionary too. His zeal had a very shallow foundation.

        Richard

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • 67? Well, that explains it. There’s probably no such thing as “underage” in that tribe.

        destructure

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • According to his Wikipedia bio, he converted to Christianity at age 17. Unfortunately, I’ve noticed people who weren’t raised in a devout Christian family but become born-again in adolescence often come to believe their original reasons for believing were not great ones in the first place, and wind up drifting away in adulthood. It’s like it turns out to be “just a phase.” Actually, he reminds me of a former patient of mine, also a college professor. This guy also (keeping in mind that I only ever hear one side of the story) became born-again in adolescence, converted his entire family, then became a non-religious secular liberal again in his late twenties/early thirties, which devastated his entire family because they all remained conservative Christians.

        Come to think of it, that’s also the story of Bart Ehrman, religion professor and author of popular books “debunking” conservative Christianity, who plays up the fact that he became born-again in adolescence and was quite zealous until studying the Bible in its original languages in college/seminary (ignoring the fact that most people who study the same thing at the institutions he attended don’t reach the same conclusions.) Moral of the story: adolescence is not an auspicious time to become a born-again Christian.

        Hermes

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • destructure, he’s 67 now, but his work with the Piraha appears to have been in the late 70s/early 80s, when he was around 30.

        Hermes

        May 24, 2019 at EDT am

      • Do you think that’s only true born-again Christianity, or is it also true of conversion to Islam?

        John Walker lindh converted to Islam when his parents got divorced, and his father came out as gay.

        gothamette

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • destructure, there was an anthropologist who married an amazonian girl no older than 12:

        https://nypost.com/2014/05/24/son-finds-his-lost-mother-in-a-stone-age-tribe/

        pretty reprehensible story.

        toomanymice

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • >>John Walker lindh converted to Islam when his parents got divorced, and his father came out as gay.

        Lindh was released yesterday and one news report states that his letters from jail were full of holy roller Jihadi gibberish. I’m afraid that we haven’t heard the last of Lindh.

        Daniel Heneghan

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • toomanymice — Doesn’t surprise me at all. There are a number of countries known for underage sex tourism. I think it should be illegal to travel overseas for that.

        destructure

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

  2. Well, the exception proves the rule, doesn’t it.

    Find me 100 more like that and I’ll start to go hmmmmmmm.

    gda53

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • It’s sort of a man-bites-dog story, but it has happened!

      • Well, I never! But I wonder if the tribe was really being seen for the first time. Plus maybe he was not a good missionary. Especially since he renounced Christianity later.

        Victorian missionaries would not give up their faith on one bad experience. It wasn’t even that bad. It’s not like tribe were cannibals or something.

        I was also thinking of some ancient Greeks who were not very religious. The charge against Socrates (from Wiki)

        The trial of Socrates (399 BC) was held to determine the philosopher’s guilt of two charges: asebeia (impiety) against the pantheon of Athens, and corruption of the youth of the city-state; the accusers cited two impious acts by Socrates: “failing to acknowledge the gods that the city acknowledges” and “introducing new deities”.

        The death sentence of Socrates was the legal consequence of asking politico-philosophic questions of his students, from which resulted the two accusations of moral corruption and of impiety.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates

        It would be perhaps more accurate to say the belief in the supernatural tends to be hard wired but many people never succumb.

        Some people say the religious charge against Socrates was just an excuse, that some Athenians just wanted to get rid of him for some other reason. But there’s no doubt he was a skeptic.

        Aristophanes made fun of certain religious practises in his plays

        The worry that a waning commitment to traditional religion might undermine public morality is a recurring concern in Aristophanes’ plays; yet he himself pokes fun fairly mercilessly at both the gods of Greek religion and the priests who serve them. In his Frogs, for example, Dionysus is portrayed as cowardly and effeminate; while in Peace and Birds, the human protagonists manage to outwit some fairly buffoonish deities.

        https://www.libertarianism.org/columns/ancient-greeces-legacy-liberty-aristophanes-divine-comedy

        Frau Katze

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  3. The piraha, like most indigenous amazonian tribes, are animists, not atheists. If he had described jesus as a spirit that can take the form.of a jaguar, he would have had a better reception.

    At least they didn’t kill him or eat him.

    toomanymice

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • He should have shown them Cat People (1982), directed by Paul Schrader. It’s a strange little early-‘80s Hollywood exploitation flick – ostensibly a horror movie, but with far more nudity than gore.

      The protagonist is a 20-year-old virgin woman (Nastassja Kinski, Schrader’s then-girlfriend) who discovers to her horror that she and her brother (Malcolm McDowell) are the last remnants of an ancient race of incestuous were-leopards. (The kink is that, if a were-leopard tries to make love with a human, it reverts into animal form. The only way it can return to human form is by killing another human.) McDowell makes predatory advances toward Kinski, but she prefers the company of a zoo curator (John Heard, best known as Macaulay Culkin’s father in Home Alone).

      (Incidentally, Schrader was raised in a strict Calvinist family. His parents were horrified that he chose to make a career in Godless Hollyweird. His mother once wrote him a letter to inform him that “Your father and I will miss you in heaven.”)

      It’s a mediocre movie overall, but the scene in which Kinski learns of her true origins is compelling. Giorgio Moroder’s score is a plus:

      Moroder collaborated with David Bowie on the theme song (spoiler alert):

      Stan Adams

      May 24, 2019 at EDT am

  4. I’m not so sure that missionaries are more neurotic than the general population, but it is true that we are hard-wired to believe (most of us, anyway.) As for this remote atheist tribe, I think the key word here is “remote.” In most industrial societies, religion is positively correlated with good behavior. The statistics on this may seem skewed because many churches accept whoever walks through the door (so you’ll find evangelical congregations where most members,including the pastor, have a shady or even criminal past.) But religion is indispensable. There really is no secular equivalent that works on a large scale. The best secular life can offer is something like “Ethical Culture Society” which never catches on because without a God people simply define “ethical” to suit their own personal needs.

    Maryk (the g-loaded guidette)

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “many churches accept whoever walks through the door (so you’ll find evangelical congregations where most members,including the pastor, have a shady or even criminal past.)”

      Criminals need religion most. I’ve seen some pretty rough characters turn their lives around after getting religion.

      destructure

      May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • It happened to David Wood, who runs the Youtube show Acts17Apologetics. He’s been running it for years and is now married with children, Another prisoner started trying to convert him to Christianity so he decided he needed to read the Bible so he could argue with him. And that was enough to convert him.

        He’d been diagnosed as a psychopath but he doesn’t act like one. He ended up in prison after getting into a serious fight with his father.

        Frau Katze

        May 25, 2019 at EDT am

  5. It seems in truth, even according to Everett’s own tales (which I believe are really the only source of information available on them, so take with a grain of salt), the piraha are basically animistic or polytheistic. The piraha were just responding to his Christian claims with basic skepticism.

    Since the piraha still apparently exist as a people, we have to think that they’ve inherited more skepticism towards outsiders and their ideas than the many South American Indian groups that integrated into Latin society.

    Wency

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  6. This kind of thing happens more than most people would think. Becoming an atheist is probably more of a hazard for theology students than missionaries, but I would say it’s most common with the children of missionaries who grew up 50% or more in a non-Christian country.

    MoreSigmasThanYou

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • I can understand skepticism in our society where we have scientific explanations for so much. But that’s quite unique and pretty recent.

      Frau Katze

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  7. Different people are hardwired differently.

    My 2¢

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  8. His research on the Piraha language sparked a big controversy in linguistics. He claimed Piraha has no recursion (google it), which, according to basically all theories of language, should be impossible. Controversy is ongoing. If true, would be a major paradigm shift in the study of languages.

    • right, but Chomsky pointed out that most of them speak Portuguese perfectly well, which does have recursion. So even if their language didn’t have it, and that is a matter of debate, they are capable of learning it.

      Now I’m obsessed with Game of Thrones. (Which is really funny because I never saw the show.) The controversy about the anti-feminist tone of the finale is ongoing.

      How the hell did those two Jews get away with it? Are they two of Steve sailer’s secret conservatives in Hollywood?

      gothamette

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I thought about GoT while reading Leon’s last post on “victimization”. Did it occur to anyone that Danny was a social justice warrior who was going to “liberate” the world from its “oppressors” by massacring anyone who wouldn’t surrender to her. After all, she’s the only one who knew what was “good”. No one else. Just her. Flying around on her dragon exterminating people.

        destructure

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  9. The Pirahas are also famous for their complete failure to grasp the concept of numbers.

    Fiat Lux

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • I think I remember reading about these guys. They apparently sit around stoned out of their minds on various plant drugs almost every afternoon. It’s difficult to say whether they’re just dumb, or they’ve poisoned their own brains.

      bobbybobbob

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I really doubt claims like that. There’s no welfare system in the Amazon Rainforest, and plenty of other tribes who could kill them and take their stuff.

        Alexander Turok

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Yeah, it’s not like Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris holds up the Piraha as paragons of a rationalistic society. Or I can’t imagine they would.

      njguy73

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Exactly. It’s not as though this tribe actively tried to convert the guy to a Dawkinsian, scientific materialist worldview. The articles mention the fact that these people believe in spirits. They just didn’t believe him when he told them about the Bible and Jesus, and in his mind that experience was what planted the seed of doubt in his erstwhile worldview.

        Hermes

        May 24, 2019 at EDT am

  10. The Amazon tribes would still be in the stone age but for whatever gadgets they have gotten from the colonizers. I’m not surprised that hunter-gatherers have no use for something that is a hallmark of civilization. Organized religion came along with the rise of states.

    Though there does seem to be some longing to return to tribes and bands. Doubt many could handle that life however.

    Mrs Stitch

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “Organized religion came along with the rise of states.”

      That’s what I was thinking. Primitive hunter gathering lends itself to animism. A more organized agricultural society lends itself to monotheism. I doubt this amazonian tribe could even grasp the concepts in the bible because the society and concepts would be too foreign. That’s not the paradigm they’re operating under.

      On the other hand, as someone mentioned earlier, a missionary who goes out to live with and convert remote natives probably isn’t the most stable person to start with. I’d also point out that he was the one who was most isolated. The natives reinforced each others beliefs but he had no one reinforcing his.

      Most people are strongly influenced by the dominant culture and trends (i.e. bandwagon effect) That’s one of the reasons missionaries usually go out in pairs. People are much less likely to be talked out of their beliefs if they’re with someone who believes the same.

      destructure

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • States: unfreedom
      Religion: intellectual unfreedom

      Anthony

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “Religion: intellectual unfreedom”

        People without religion fail at the defining feature of all life, which is procreating. This is why the fertile religious will inherit the Earth, as an iron law.

        This is not a particularly comforting thought given that many smarts are atheist and many dulls are religious but it is the overwhelming reality. You must have religion (in some form or other) or your civilization will decline. There are no exceptions, as far as I can tell.

        Leftists are deluded in thinking their rational, enlightened societies will rise ever upward. Righties are deluded in thinking that as long as everyone joins their religion, everything will be just fine.

        Dan

        May 24, 2019 at EDT am

      • Universities as we know them were invented by the church, as was the concept of academic freedom.

        J1

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Two words: Cargo. Cult.

      njguy73

      May 24, 2019 at EDT am

  11. That story is 11 years old.

    Dan

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • It doesn’t matter how old it is. It contradicts my thesis that humans are hard wired to believe in supernatural forces, making any isolated tribe guaranteed to believe in the supernatural.

      I think I need to alter it too “tend to be hard wired”.

      I also got to thinking and remembered I’d read about some skeptical ancient Greeks. They were in a more sophisticated society than the Amazon tribe but there were precious few creature comforts in 400 BC.

      They were also so well known that others wrote about one (Socrates) and the other made fun of religion in his comedies (Aristophanes).

      Usually the small tribes have a wide range of supernatural beliefs. I wonder if these Brazilians were anything like Canada’s natives who happen to live isolated spots. They don’t seem interested in their old religion and a few may be Christians but by and large they’re so badly affected by alcoholism that you really can’t say what they’d be like without it.

      Tendencies to alcoholism is a common feature of North and South America. They were exposed to it very late (compared to the Old World) and with no time to evolve defences. Alcohol wasn’t a scourge in ancient Greece or Rome or the Middle East. Indeed, it afflicts northern Europeans a lot more but nowhere the level seen in the New World.

      Frau Katze

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “It doesn’t matter how old it is. It contradicts my thesis that humans are hard wired to believe in supernatural forces, making any isolated tribe guaranteed to believe in the supernatural.”

        I would just about guarantee that the Dan Everett holds a mix of leftist ideologies in the place of traditional leftism.

        Dan

        May 24, 2019 at EDT am

  12. It would be interesting to find out if the Pirahã have some kind of genetic neurological difference that makes think differently than most people about supernatural claims.

    Blue Tribe Dissident

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  13. Most atheists are dishonest as hell. Notice that their ridicule, anger and debunking efforts are aimed at Christianity almost exclusively. To me this signifies that they’re not opposed to belief in the supernatural in general so much as they just don’t like Christianity. Almost none of them would tell a Jew or a Muslim that his/her religion is crap. Am I saying that you, Lion, harbor a secret belief in God? No, I’m sure you’re a genuine non-believer, but I think Christianity is the only religion that actually bugs you.

    Stealth

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Where did you get the idea that I like Muslims? Also, I hate Judaism.

      • Of the three, which do you criticize the most? I’m talking about the actual religions, not their adherents. It’s just something I’ve noticed about most atheists; no offense intended. Their main priority seems to be to convince Christians that God doesn’t exist or that Jesus was just some guy. They’ll cast doubt on Old Testament characters and events, but only in the context of proving that Christianity is bunk, not Judaism or Islam. It just doesn’t seem important to them to persuade Jews and Muslims to leave their respective faiths.

        Stealth

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • There are no commenters in this blog saying that Islam is the absolute truth, but I get a lot of commenters believing in the Bible, so I need to write for their benefit.

      • Judaism at its best is cool, if I were not a Christian the only other thing I would want to be is a Jew who liked Judaism. Not the liberal kind, but the pro-life happy kind.

        Everything else is sort of Las Vegas – whatever is good about atheism and lots of religions that are sort of like atheism or polytheism or Sun or Moon worship are not so good after a few days. I mean, sure if you grow up in Asia you are going to want to have an Asian wife and Asian kids and have a few Buddhist trinkets around the house. And so on and so forth, but really, there is nothing as satisfying as knowing how God really created the world (all Christians and all Jews have access to the exact details), and knowing what God has promised future generations (the promises of God are set forth in the Jewish and Christian scriptures, to the extent that other people have holy books those books are just reflections and shadows of the Jewish and Christian holy books. And of course books are less important than prayer when prayer includes knowledge of God’s promises, which is something Jews and Christians know a lot about, whether they read the Bible much or just listen to their fellow Jews or Christians, living and eternally saved)

        howitzer Daniel

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “Judaism at its best is cool”

        The black hats that the Hasidim wear are cool, otherwise the religion sucks.

      • Well maybe there are people who think Las Vegas is still fun after many days there.

        God bless them, but they are wrong about what fun is.

        howitzer Daniel

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Lion, when I think of what you could be had you been raised in a secular environment, it makes me want to cry.

        njguy73

        May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • howitzer Daniel, Judaism hardly deal with the world creation, the building of the Tabernacle is much more detailed, maybe around 300 verses compared to the creation of the world, about 30 verses. If anything it mainly comes to show that god is not the world, he created it, as opposed to the christian believe of the trinity which means a man from this world can be part of god.

        In Israel atheists mainly attack Judaism, in a christian country they go against Christianity. I think many religions have deep and interesting ideas if you study them deeply and properly, hating religion seems to me childish.

        Hashed

        May 24, 2019 at EDT am

    • “Almost none of them would tell a Jew or a Muslim that his/her religion is crap.”

      No. Sam Harris said about Islam:

      “For instance, a dogmatic commitment to nonviolence lies at the very core of Jainism, whereas an equally dogmatic commitment to using violence to defend one’s faith, both from within and without, is similarly central to the doctrine of Islam. These beliefs, though held for identical reasons (faith) and in varying degrees by individual practitioners of these religions, could not be more different. And this difference has consequences in the real world.”

      https://samharris.org/response-to-controversy/

      Here’s Richard Dawkins:

      “I think Islam is the greatest force for evil in the world today”

      Of course you can give me examples of atheists prostrating themselves, but it’s not like Christians aren’t doing the exact same thing.

      Alexander Turok

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Atheists worship Satan.

      map

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • No God, no Satan. Win/win!

        Anthony

        May 24, 2019 at EDT am

    • Almost none of them would tell a Jew or a Muslim that his/her religion is crap.

      Most Jews I know follow religious practice more to participate in a shared culture and preserve tradition and identity. They may also believe in a higher power, and may believe that that higher power has given Jews a special purpose, but none of them see the Bible as the literal word of God. What are atheists going to tell a high IQ Jew that he doesn’t already know?

      On the other hand, most Muslims are ignorant and barely literate. Telling them their religion is crap is a waste of time. Also notice that atheists don’t spend a lot of time going to Black Baptist preachers and telling them there is no God.

      White Christians are at the sweet spot of being sincere believers, but also intelligent enough, presumably, to listen to a rational argument. So I am not surprised they get the brunt of atheist energy.

      Peter Akuleyev

      May 24, 2019 at EDT am

      • “but none of them see the Bible as the literal word of God”

        The Orthodox believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, but you are right that Jews at Reform synagogues don’t take the religious texts seriously. Most of them don’t even believe in a Jewish God. Why go to religious services if you don’t believe in the religion? That’s why I don’t go.

      • Lion, you shouldn’t generalize. Yes, the dogmatic position to the Genesis myth is it being literal, but there are many “modern” orthodox Jews who are medical and biology researchers and accept evolutionary biology. In fact, I know of one such researcher who got in trouble at his university when in his first lecture he asked his class that anyone who doesn’t believe in the theory of evolution should drop it.

        Judaism has the ability to adapt to the new scientific knowledge because there is no concept of “The Fall” necessitating a transmogrifying savior of mankind. Further, if there is a succinct way of describing the Jewish faith, it would be its aim of being a natural one. The Hebrew testimony is taken to be equivalently the natural entrance of God into the self-consciousness of man’s being in time, initially with Abraham and genetically propagating thereafter.

        A Dilettante

        May 25, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “To me this signifies that they’re not opposed to belief in the supernatural in general so much as they just don’t like Christianity.”

      I reached the same conclusion a long time ago after debating many, many atheists. More specifically, I concluded that what many really opposed was biblical morality. I noticed they didn’t seem to have a problem with other goofy beliefs provided the believers were similarly far left and shared their values.

      destructure

      May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

  14. Pre-modern people don’t really have a concept of “supernatural” vs. “natural” explanations. There are simply tall tales people tell. To the Piraha, the tales about Jesus sounded fantastical, but so do the tales about Alexander the Great. I would say that it’s human nature to believe whatever the currently fashionable tall tales are. The tall tales can be supernatural, scientific, pseudo-scientific, it doesn’t really matter because most people don’t care enough to look at their tall tales with a critical eye. I don’t buy the claim that people must always be religious. Estonia and Czechia are mostly irreligious, and have yet to experience any kind of religious revival.

    Alexander Turok

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • It would be interesting to know why these modern Europeans are atheists. Maybe they aren’t atheists but believe in “New Age” stuff. They would show up in the ranks of those not attending a church but would still believe in the supernatural. I have a good friend in that very category.

      Frau Katze

      May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Czechs aren’t even that into New Age stuff. Seems to me that New Age stuff tends to appeal to the same people who like Joel Osteen, people who want a quick spiritual fix. Czechs aren’t very religious partly because the population is high IQ (like Estonians or Finns). But maybe more so because historically Bohemia was Ground Zero for the 30 Years War, and having Catholics and Protestants slaughter each other over and over again, not to mention opportunists changing sides for money or power, made everyone very cynical about organized religion, and the Czechs seem to have remained cynical even 400 years later.

        P

        May 24, 2019 at EDT am

      • @P Could be. I don’t know much about Christianity in post-Communist countries.

        It may be that they are less religious. The Central Asian Muslim parts of the former Soviet Union do seem less religious.

        There’s lots of polls about Islam and they tend to be less extreme on Islam (on average, of course). The Caucasus ones seem more religious than the Central Asian ones.

        There’s lots of other conflicts over territory in the Caucasus affecting both Christians and Muslims. Christian Armenia gets on better with Iran than with Georgia.

        Frau Katze

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The most convincing episodes in my life about the supernatural involve my friend. She has sensed a few things that turned out to be true. There was on particular case about a house I rented. I won’t go into the details but I still can’t explain it.

        Frau Katze

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

  15. Two cannibals capture a missionary and start eating him. One cannibal starts eating at the head and the other at the feet, figuring they’ll meet in the middle.
    A short while later the cannibal who started eating at the head says “How are you doing?”
    “Terrific,” says the other cannibal. “I’m having a ball.”
    “You’re eating too fast!”

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    May 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  16. I would like a response from Lion about my views on religion. I arrive at them from a secular perspective. Economic forces primarily shape history and I believe the rich and powerful in society are anointed by heaven itself. In China this concept is called the mandate of heaven whereby elites are anointed to the top of society but unlike the European divine right of kings elites could lose the mandate of heaven if they rule badly. Chinese society had seen the rise and fall of enough dynasties to arrive these conclusions which match the Marxist theory of history that new elites replace old ones.

    The powers that be know that space exploration is impossible, as are underwater facilities, even remote polar facilities are too difficult/complex. Lion refuses to admit that what is written in religious books is mostly true. There are natural barriers preventing humanity from leaving the planet and going too far below the surface of our world. The only thing that seems viable is ripping open portals to new dimensions which appears to be the goal of CERN and other projects in Switzerland which actually do receive massive funding. What exists beyond human sight and perception could be a world of demons and other entities. According to religious texts angles are made of light and jinn made of fire. Both ultraviolet and infrared spectrum exists beyond human sight and is analogous to light and fire.

    The entities which humans call fallen angles, watchers, demons, shadow people, and even the gods of antiquity are all one entity. According to Islam they are jinn. Angles were made of light, humans made of clay, but jinn were born of fire. Humans live only a 120 years but Jinn can live anywhere from a few thousand to several thousand years. Jinn eat, drink, sleep, and die just like humans though. Unlike humans they have the powers of invisibility, shapeshifting, teleportation, and telepathy. Jinn like humans have free will and their immense powers are a gift from heaven and a test of their morality. Some are good, others are benevolently neutral, and a few are evil. Jinn can be male or female. They have families and courts of law. They also adopt human religious beliefs like Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc but most are Muslim. The younger jinn are the most fascinated by humans. Jinn can mate with humans and occasionally do so by shapeshifting into the form of beautiful men/women.

    Jinn reside in a parallel dimension to our own humans and Jinn occupy the same space but operate on different frequencies. In our world Jinn typically reside in remote places and unsettled areas like forests, mountains, deserts, graveyards, and ruins. Shrines created to these entities may have been the earliest form of religious worship. In Islam the concept of shirk specifically rejects polytheism and jinn worship. While humans cannot normally see Jinn animals can see them so when you hear a dog barking and a donkey braying at what appears to be nothing they simply see what humans cannot see.

    All societies believe in supernatural entitles of some sort be it animal spirits/deities like Ganesh or magical fairies even ghouls/vampires. Some Jinn are closer to animals and prefer their company over humans these are mostly associated with fox spirits. It appears that the so called gray aliens are the latest form demons/jinn take reflecting modern human economic developments. They also possess humans hence the obsession with demons in horror films though this is a grave crime. They can also possess statues making them weep or drink. The blood of weeping statues has been documented as human but has unusual properties such as being extremely old. Ganesh statutes drinking milk has been dismissed by scientists but the fact this occurred only once in history and never occurred again suggests something supernatural.

    Space exploration only became possible after thousands of years when humans finally produced energy from matter enabling the nuclear age. The process of producing matter from energy is beyond human comprehension and may take thousand of years to solve as well. When we overcome that hurdle according to my research humanity will have access to a stargate that will enable interstellar travel. According to people who interact with the supernatural such as magicians and psychics who themselves derive their influence/powers from the jinn at present human sciences do not even have a primitive understanding of the world.

    redarmyvodka

    May 24, 2019 at EDT am

    • Fox deities/spirits unknown in the west are prominent in Asia. Beautiful women being labeled foxes is derived from these shapeshifting creatures. The Japanese Kitsune matches the Muslim Jinn concept almost exactly.

      redarmyvodka

      May 24, 2019 at EDT am

    • redarmy, I would suggest reading the chapter of autobiography of a yogi where sri yukteswar giri describes the afterlife/ spirit world to yogananda. From what I’ve seen (I’m an involuntary astral projector) it’s pretty accurate.

      toomanymice

      May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • More details on this? Where can one read about it?

        Frau Katze

        May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Autobiography of a Yogi is available free online.

        toomanymice

        June 5, 2019 at EDT am

    • Do you believe that the manned moon landings were not real?

      Frau Katze

      May 24, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The United States & Soviet Union are deeply masonic countries.

        The lunar landings were real but occurred in a Cold War context.

        redarmyvodka

        May 30, 2019 at EDT am

  17. https://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/brazil-s-piraha-tribe-living-without-numbers-or-time-a-414291.html

    Makes sense. Their language makes statements about what is not experienced or overly abstract hard to do.

    Completely overthrew Chomsky’s BS far-left linguistic theories.

    Robert

    May 24, 2019 at EDT am

  18. Off topic but I think some here might enjoy this.

    GondwanaMan

    May 25, 2019 at EDT am

  19. OT but very funny

    https://abovethelaw.com/2019/05/author-learns-legal-premise-of-her-book-is-wrong-live/

    Naomi wolf has been writing bullshit for years. She makes mistakes all the time, and she keeps getting book deals.

    gothamette

    May 25, 2019 at EDT am

    • Yes, someone recommended this link. What an idiot. We have an insufferable Naomi in Canada too. Naomi Klein. Her craziest book, “The Shock Doctrine”.

      Central to the book’s thesis is the contention that those who wish to implement unpopular free market policies now routinely do so by taking advantage of certain features of the aftermath of major disasters, be they economic, political, military or natural. The suggestion is that when a society experiences a major ‘shock’ there is a widespread desire for a rapid and decisive response to correct the situation; this desire for bold and immediate action provides an opportunity for unscrupulous actors to implement policies which go far beyond a legitimate response to disaster. The book suggests that when the rush to act means the specifics of a response will go unscrutinized, that is the moment when unpopular and unrelated policies will intentionally be rushed into effect. The book appears to claim that these shocks are in some cases intentionally encouraged or even manufactured.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Klein

      Frau Katze

      May 25, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that [is] it’s an opportunity to do things that you think you could not before.” – Rahm Emmanuel, 2008

        CamelCaseRob

        May 25, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Naomi Wolf was on a discussion programme on the radio this morning talking about this, and trying to defend her book (or rather rescue it). Given that I don’t much care for her thesis I suppose I should have enjoyed her obvious discomfort and her verbal fumblings and stumblings, but it was actually painful and embarrassing to listen to. The best thing that she could say about her book was that those who had first editions would have a collector’s item because of the changes that would have to be made for the second edition!

      She has been widely praised for the dignified way in which she has handled the whole thing, but it seems to me that the people who have exposed her mistake have been almost apologetic about doing so. You can hear that in the clip you posted. It’s as if they are saying ‘we wish you were right, but you aren’t.’ If an author from the right, say someone like Ann Coulter or Pat Buchanan, had been in a comparable situation their treatment would have been very different.

      With regards to the story about the missionary, I’m pretty sure I remember reading about this thanks to a link left at this blog years ago. Presumably part of the reason that he lost his faith is that discovering a tribe whose language and culture makes them unconvertable calls into question a faith based on proseletyising the whole world. I guess if you are a Calvinist then you would have no problems with people who cannot comprehend the Gospels being sent to Hell, but to others it would be a big stumbling block.

      prolier than thou

      May 27, 2019 at EDT am

      • Naomi Wolf gets a variety of passes because she’s female, she’s on the left, and so on.

        Meanwhile, I wonder what will happen with David Garrow, a card-carrying member of the left in good standing, who has uncovered very gamey stuff about Martin Luther King. I think his life is over.

        gothamette

        May 27, 2019 at EDT pm

  20. You should review A Month of Sundays by John Updike. Covers some of these themes.

    “In this antic riff on Hawthorne’s Scarlet Letter, the Reverend Tom Marshfield, a latter-day Arthur Dimmesdale, is sent west from his Midwestern parish in sexual disgrace. At a desert retreat dedicated to rest, recreation, and spiritual renewal, this fortyish serial fornicator is required to keep a journal whose thirty-one weekly entries constitute the book you now hold in your hand. In his wonderfully overwrought style he lays bare his soul and his past—his marriage to the daughter of his ethics professor, his affair with his organist, his antipathetic conversations with his senile father and his bisexual curate, his golf scores, his poker hands, his Biblical exegeses, and his smoldering desire for the directress of the retreat, the impregnable Ms. Prynne. A testament for our times.”

    Curle

    May 27, 2019 at EDT am

  21. On topic, but more importantly, the kind of writing you only get from Sailer:

    The current conventional wisdom is, for example, that Americans would be eating nothing but meatloaf in 2019 if not for never-ending mass immigration, because only a MesoAmerican can do sushi right. But the history of soccer-style kicking in American football suggests you just need a small amount of elite immigration to introduce a new technique and then Americans can carry on from there.

    Vipltd

    May 27, 2019 at EDT am


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