Lion of the Blogosphere

A comment about abortion

SC writes:

No one that I personally know has ever gotten an abortion.

My main objection to pro-lifers is that they create a burden on taxpayers. This is my main reason for supporting abortion. My family pays way too much in taxes as it is. It’s unfair to my mother, who has worked so hard to create wealth, and to support myself and my chronically ill father, to have to pay for the Section 8 and food stamps for low IQ people’s children.

As for myself personally, I don’t have any reason to ever get an abortion. I’m getting married soon to the only partner I have ever had, whom I started dating in high school. I just want other women to get abortions, because i don’t want my future kids to have to share a classroom with low IQ violent bastard kids.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

134 Responses

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  1. Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if court-ordered Norplant had become standard practice.

    njguy73

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

  2. That’s the typical eugenics stance. The moral position would be how one would like to be treated if we had 30% changed or being born with low IQ, industriousness in a poor family. How you treat the most fragile is a sign of how good your society is.

    They has a public policy it would be good to favor good genes, with tax reduction depending on number of biological kids. 20% tax reduction for each kid starting at the 4th so that rich people would want to have 8 kids (and get not revenue income).

    A universal income should be proposed in exchange of irreversible sterilization only to childless 18/35 women and men.

    Also the support for poor who have choseb to breed families should be conditioned against community work and things should be made harder the bigger the family.

    There could be free college with a salary for people with 135 IQ+ people who would want to do a bachelor and a PhD.

    There are lots of way to favor eugenics without being hateful against poor nor minorities.

    Bruno

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • How you treat the most fragile is a sign of how good your society is.

      Our fragile are high IQ, industrious types, who are being taxed and worked to death to support the Others.

      bomag

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • It’s a travesty that a billion dollar company like Walmart use their NUM workers (and prols) to fleece our welfare system. The corporate bugger pays their employees a measly salary so they can be entitled to our menu of welfare benefits and services.

        Not only Walmart, but most of these giant retail (including the Bezonian Company) want you to fork the bill, so Tyrone (and Cliff the Prole) who deliver prime boxes to your door can apply for Food Stamps, when they are not around.

        https://mynorthwest.com/1108160/washington-snap-bezos-act/?

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

  3. The inconveniences of SC’s grandma are not relevant to the discussion, either it is a murder or not. We are not murdering people out of financial conveniences. If he doesn’t like paying taxes for stupid people he should fight for that, not fight it by murdering babies. If he doesn’t think that it is murder than his taxes has nothing to do with it, it is the woman (and maybe the father’s) right to decide what to do with their “property”.

    Btw, I was locked out from twitter for some comment I have made about the Israeli Arab conflict. The interesting thing is that you can only appeal with a message the size of a twit, which means I couldn’t prove and bring links to support my claim that it was just a factual comment rather than some “hateful” comment. The gist of it was that the arabs want to convert Israel to another Arab country and it makes sense that Jews don’t like the idea. This is considered today as hateful, actual calls for the destruction of Israel are all over twitter, pointing it out is a sin.

    Hashed

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Yeah, I once asked a Saudi friend, a gentle 70-ish guy who was educated in England, what would happen if Israel had no military assistance from the U.S. He said, “we just push them into the sea.” The only question is whether that’s representative arab opinion. In other contexts, the Left never has a problem imputing evil motives to the numerically larger group. BTW that was the same Saudi guy who had the great Warren Beatty story. Did I tell that one?

      Marty

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Disagree that the critical question is murder or no murder. I believe in democracy. Human beings should be able to construct the polity under which they live with whatever rules they want, so long as they’re consistently applied. There would be nothing wrong with a country in which everyone has to go Soylent Green by 60, or in which you get the death penalty for littering. The only thing wrong with the current abortion right, whatever its particular contours, is that it was created by unelected judges. In the early days of the issue, pro-choice advocates argued that we couldn’t allow different states to have different rules (I wonder if the OP realizes Ronald Reagan legalized abortion in California for precisely the reasons she mentions) because it would just be too onerous to require a girl from Utah to go to California. But what we’re seeing now with the Central American migration, apparently financed by Woke capital, shows how needlessly hysterical that position was.

      You know me

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Rosenmops

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • After review they said they have made a mistake, two people complained. Looks to me like there is an attack on right wing people, they just try, if it works it works. The options they gave me was either to appeal or delete the twit, I chose to appeal but many people will just delete for convenience especially that by default they lock you until the appeal resolve, rather than the other way round, assuming you are innocent and then locking it after a check.

      Hashed

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

  4. Abortions as a means to eugenics.
    There’s a standard to run by.

    Half Canadian

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

  5. I understand. I also think a common ground could be reached if we tied not getting an abortion with the demand for the expected child to be high. I know, I know, rayciss! But… Is it not rayciss against Whites to deny them abortions but not so to diversity. In fact we could make it a virtue signalling cause celeb, Im putting my fetus up for adoption so a more deserving mudflap can abort theirs. Just think of all the idiot lib fems wanting to get raped actually increasing. Rape me, I want to have your adoption.

    herolazy

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

  6. The government should give $10,000 in cold hard cash to any low income woman who will get her tubes irreversibly tied. That would solve most of our problems.

    B.T.D.T.

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • How about just $200 to any one who tests positive for crack, heroin, or meth?

      That way, dysfunctional women AND men get money for sterilization, and we’ll have fewer crack babies.

      SC

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

  7. If you murder all the workers in the womb, who is going to pay taxes?

    • Not all of them; just the stupid ones. And they don’t pay taxes anyway.

      Jokah Macpherson

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

      • This problem has got exponentially worse over the time period birth control and abortion became legal and widely available. The entire argument is just idiotic if know anything about the history.

        Lion & co.: We need abortion and birth control to control number of stupids on welfare.

        Reality: Exponentially more stupids on welfare since acceptance of these became commonplace.

        bobbybobbob

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • The real reality: birthrates for poor women down substantially since 1973.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Absolutely.

        Only 53% of American households are net taxpayers. As a member of a household that pays metric tonnes in taxes, I agree.

        SC

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Agree with bobbybobob.

        The real problem is that smart/conscientious people aren’t having children.

        A culture that honors motherhood and children is a culture that causes conscientious people to have children. A culture that regards children as parasites, expunging them no different than expunging a tapeworm, is a culture where the only people who have children are people who are unconscientious, with very high time preference, or people who are basically cut off from your culture (e.g., immigrant communities).

        Of course, this means abortion is only one front in developing a pro-natal culture, and probably not the most important front. But no reason to abandon it, especially when our enemies’ rhetoric is becoming so toxic and anti-natal in this matter.

        Wency

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Wency is correct. Our society has become deeply dysgenic by encouraging anti-natal attitudes among the elite. Lion is too busy rubbing his hands in glee over ghetto hoes aborting to see the larger picture.

        If abortion were eugenic (which without control over who aborts or who doesn’t it is not) we would be seeing a eugenic product, yet we see the opposite. Only the stupid, mentally ill, and ultra religious are breeding above replacement level.

        And while I’m sure SC is a well meaning person the truth is women with the most social face to lose, and with the best funds to cover it up, will never confess to an abortion unless they are cuckoo activists.

        This is up there with lion’s dumbest (climate change denial). Yes global warming ‘science” is corrupt but that doesn’t negate at least some of the data.

        toomanymice

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The point isn’t a competitive breeding race. The pro-abortion analysis totally misses that culture matters and sexual liberation has been a disaster. It began in the late 50s. You can’t separate abortion and contraception from sexual liberation. You can’t separate support for welfare from sexual liberation. The single motherhood and divorce rates, even in the black ghetto, would be far lower in a society that held “pre-liberation” norms.

        bobbybobbob

        June 14, 2019 at EDT am

  8. ‘No one that I personally know has ever gotten an abortion’

    Wellll… you don’t know that. Perhaps, at best, add AFAIK.

    Which would change your argument

    Dave

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Of my two closest female friends, one waiting until marriage and the other is a lesbian.

      You really don’t know the reality of young, high IQ, low testosterone, low sex drive, educated, affluent women and our world.

      About 1/3 of my friends are waiting for marriage or have successfully waited until marriage. The other 2/3 use birth control and/or condoms 100% of the time and avoid casual sex.

      I don’t hang out with dumb people, or promiscuous people. The promiscuous sorority girls at my university are basically banshees to me. I avoided them like the plague.

      SC

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Out of curiosity, what do you consider high IQ, educated and affluent? Specifics please.

        destructure

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

  9. “No one that I personally know has ever gotten an abortion.”

    How do you know? Even if they had gotten one, this isn’t the sort of thing I suspect most people would just share, even with very close friends.

    Jokah Macpherson

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Actually they do.

      One of my friends comes from a prole background. He said that one of his friends from his hometown openly admits to having had an abortion in the past.

      Liberals are not afraid to admit to an abortion. A lot of them are proud of it.

      My friends are all either waiting for marriage, have successfully waited until marriage, or using birth control 100% of the time and avoiding casual sex. This is because I only make friends with high IQ, low testosterone, low sex drive people. Why would I want to be friends with some trashy sorority girl in the first place?

      SC

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • “Why would I want to be friends with some trashy sorority girl in the first place?”

        To get invited to the good parties?

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • @Lion

        I don’t enjoy parties. 80% of my friends would say the same thing. You sound like an extrovert.

        SC

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I don’t enjoy parties any more, but when I was in college I think I enjoyed them.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Plenty will NOT admit to having one.

        Rosenmops

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

  10. I think the eugenic argument is the best argument in favor of abortion but I doubt a majority of people would agree with it. The “it’s my body blah blah don’t oppress women” argument is by far the worst but it’s the only one I ever seem to hear…maybe that’s deliberate in order to keep the controversy alive and the donations flowing, but it’s not going to convince anyone who believes abortion is murder.

    If abortion rights supporters actually wanted to convince the other side, and I’m not that certain that they do, they would focus on the equivalence with eating meat, which most people think is perfectly fine even though moderately sentient animals are brutally slaughtered to make it possible. A human zygote is far less sentient than a pig, and while some would go through the mental gymnastics to conclude it still has a soul, you might peel off a few opponents to get closer to a critical mass.

    Jokah Macpherson

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

  11. “No one that I personally know has ever gotten an abortion.”

    This should instead read, “Of the people I know, I do not know of anyone who has ever gotten an abortion.” Because here’s the thing: People don’t like to talk about their abortions (even the spontaneous ones).

    Vince

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Do you think that I would ever socialize with a low IQ girl or a promiscuous girl?

      You’re forgetting that people tend to socialize in bubbles.

      Dumb people hang out with dumb people. Promiscuous people hang out with promiscuous people. I hang out with neither.

      Of my two closest female friends, one is waiting till marriage and the other is a lesbian.

      You don’t know my social circle. I hang out exclusively with high IQ, low testosterone, low sex drive guys and girls. 1/3 of my friends are waiting until marriage or have successfully waited until marriage. The other 2/3 only have sex in monogamous relationships and always use birth control and/or condoms.

      Do you really think that a bunch of IQ 120-140 people, who have low sex drives, who only have sex in serious relationships, and who use contraceptives exactly the way a doctor would want them to, would have an unwanted pregnancy?

      SC

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Smart people have abortions, too.

        Rosenmops

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Smart people are better at using birth control so they don’t get pregnant as often when they don’t want to.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “I hang out exclusively with high IQ, low testosterone, low sex drive guys and girls.”

        You hang out with Paul Ryan? Oh, wait you said high IQ.

        Curle

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “Do you really think that a bunch of IQ 120-140 people, who have low sex drives, who only have sex in serious relationships, and who use contraceptives exactly the way a doctor would want them to, would have an unwanted pregnancy?”

        Do you understand what the perfect use contraceptive failure rates are?

        So, yes, with perfect use of the pill, it is likely that sexually active women will get pregnant up to three times during their reproductive years. Obviously, if you are married and not a murderous swine, then you would just have the baby and not really be eat up with the fact that the odds caught up to you. I know lots of high IQ conscientious married women who had a surprise baby. But they aren’t evil psychos, so they just had the baby and lived happily ever after.

        alice

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “Smart people are better at using birth control so they don’t get pregnant as often when they don’t want to.”

        True. But young smart people can be immature, and/or drunk.

        Rosenmops

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Do you understand what the perfect use contraceptive failure rates are?

        Yes, thank you, I knew someone would have mentioned this before I had a chance to.

        I have noticed a very common phenomenon, where people think that artificial contraception is perfect, or should be, dammit!, so that it’s somehow not “fair” if they get pregnant whilst using it, and therefore they “deserve” to have access to an abortion, because “I was doing everything right! I used BIRTH CONTROL!”

        In any event, as primary care physician, I can confirm that for middle-class, reasonably-educated, “responsible” women, probably one out of every three or four has a hidden abortion in their past. If they are over 30 and childless, the likelihood increases astronomically.

        S.J., Esquire

        June 16, 2019 at EDT pm

  12. A very thorny issue.

    My wife had a procedure to determine whether our son/daughter had Down’s etc. Would she have had an abortion if she had experienced a negative result? Almost certainly – at least she said she would have. That was 26 years ago.

    Would she do it today? Uncertain but more likely than not. The procedure is done between 11 and 20 weeks (usually between 11 and 14 weeks – so normally still in the 1st trimester or just into 2nd trimester). There are now other earlier tests about to come on line in the next few years.

    The period between heartbeat (approx. 6 weeks) and 12/13 weeks is the real issue for those who are pro-life (but not actually rabid about it). No tests to confirm yet before heartbeat.

    Let you own conscience be your guide.

    The entire first world (excl. US & Canada) seems to have fairly severe (legal) restrictions beyond 1st trimester.

    Of course, the target market is about 3 SD’s below that of my wife, and they sometimes may not even realize they are pregnant for quite some time – occasionally even up to the time they are about to give birth – hence the 3rd trimester and beyond issue.

    If only it were practical to implement something like Bruno’s suggestions……

    gda53

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Mice have heartbeats, but we have no problem slaughtering them.

      The issue is when does the human get a SOUL. I say the soul doesn’t come until sometime AFTER the baby is born. But that’s just my opinion. Not possible to scientifically prove when or if there’s a soul.

      Jains believe that potatoes and other root vegetables have souls.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Mice are human now? Conflating the two is a slippery slope to Godwin’s Law it seems to me.

        I understand that Jews are particularly sensitive to that issue. Or is that only the ones with family?

        A Soul? How do we measure that then? Or is the point being that we can’t so we just shouldn’t bother – you’re presumably good with the new Virginia Law?

        Being a parent changes you. If you haven’t been there, you cannot comment because you know nothing. Try it and see.

        Of course, it could be that we parents become brainwashed once we conceive. But even when I was single I knew there was a discernable difference between a mouse and a human being.

        gda53

        June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

      • We captured some mice in our house in a live trap, intending to let them out outside somewhere. But we caught about six of them at the beginning of extreme cold spell. We bought a cage for them at a pet store and looked after them until the weather warmed up. Then let them go. Mice are very cute. However, spiders and wasps can go straight to hell, and the sooner the better. Humans are much more closely related to mammals. Bugs seem like aliens.

        Rosenmops

        June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I don’t believe in the existence of souls.

        SC

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

  13. I’m going to guess that most people do know at least one woman who’s had an abortion. Chances are, however, she/they never talked about it.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “I’m going to guess that most people do know at least one woman who’s had an abortion. Chances are, however, she/they never talked about it.”

      Probably.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

  14. Seeing all the comments noting that people don’t typically talk about getting abortions gets me wondering…would ‘coming out of the closet’ and putting a normal face on abortion bolster support for its availability? This sort of worked with LGBT stuff. Popular media was saturated with smiling gay characters who were friendly ordinary folks just like us rather than weirdos meeting under the park bridge at night for sex. If well-liked successful women, or heck even presentable poor women who made the best of things with the help of timely abortion would own up to it, it might become more acceptable.

    I mean, as things currently stand, the pro-abortion side doesn’t even have the word ‘abortion’ in its preferred moniker, which totally undermines the argument that it’s not something to be ashamed of.

    Jokah Macpherson

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

  15. I know one woman who had an abortion. She was exactly the type of woman you want to have abortions: she was always suing someone, couldn’t hold down a job,(thus the need for the frivolous lawsuits) and cheated on her husband. She had one kid who’s in his 20s and who last I heard is basically homeless.

    Tanturn

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

  16. Elizabeth Lederer, lead prosecutor of the Central Park rape case, has been hounded out of her job as a part-time law professor at Columbia U by the black students association.

    gothamette

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Lion, OT but I’ve had a couple of encounters on the subway with violent crazies. I knew enough to AMSCRAY. But it’s scary.

      gothamette

      June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Sounds scary. Stay safe, gothamette. As for Elizabeth Lederer–absolutely disgusting that she is being mobbed. Blacks will protest anything no matter how illogical, and the universities will support them.

        For example , Oberlin College vs Gibson’s Bakery.

        https://www.foxnews.com/us/oberlin-college-to-pay-bakery-the-now-massive-sum-of-more-than-44m-over-racism-dispute

        Get woke, go broke, Oberlin.

        Rosenmops

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Thanks, Rosenmops. Yesterday I was on the uptown #1 train. A guy got on and began to jump up and down, shrieking. (Hispanic, in case ur interested.)

        You know, wish “get woke go broke” were true but in the bigger picture I don’t think it’s true. In Oberlin’s case, yes, but the entire corporate structure now coddles the wokeness crowd.

        I really think the purging of Linda Fairstein and Elizabeth Lederer is noteworthy. They used to be feminist heroines. Now they are Pitchfork Ben Tillman. If that can happen to them, it can happen to anyone.

        gothamette

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

  17. SC,

    “My main objection to pro-lifers is that they create a burden on taxpayers. This is my main reason for supporting abortion. My family pays way too much in taxes as it is. It’s unfair to my mother, who has worked so hard to create wealth, and to support myself and my chronically ill father, to have to pay for the Section 8 and food stamps for low IQ people’s children.”

    And do you think you have more people living on Section 8 and food stamps now, or were there more of these in 1973? The last 46 years has seen an explosion of section 8 and food stamp use, an explosion in crime, an explosion in social breakdown, and all coinciding with the legalization of abortion.

    Tell me…where exactly is abortion mitigating all of these problems? Is is not. It has done nothing more than reliably wipe out a whole population of White people that would now be occupying the country instead of the immigrants, foreigners and domestic trash that has appeared.

    We are again back to arguing that abortion is some “fast one” pulled on the Democrats. The Dems bleat endlessly about “black bodies” in prison but, somehow, they’ve completely, and conveniently, overlooked the black abortion “rate.”

    Abortion is supported precisely because it cuts into the white population while the non-white population is helped to have as many kids as they want.

    map

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “where exactly is abortion mitigating all of these problems?”

      Fewer poor babies means less taxpayer funded welfare. Duh!

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Are you assuming or implying a sort of linear relationship? Like how do you know it nets out as _less_ welfare, or even _less_ people, instead of _more_? As far as I can tell, the whole thing is dynamic, with a temporal element.

        CMC

        June 16, 2019 at EDT am

    • “The last 46 years has seen an explosion of section 8 and food stamp use, an explosion in crime, an explosion in social breakdown, and all coinciding with the legalization of abortion.”

      The rise in the crime rate and the illegitimacy rate did not start with Roe v. Wade. Both trends started a decade earlier, the murder rate increase was largely complete by 1973:

      https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa13/2013/10/18/murder-rates-in-the-us-whats-happening-behind-the-scenes-part-2/

      What happened is that cuckservatives latched onto abortion in order to distract from their refusal to actually fight against the sexual revolution. It’s a lot like Black politics: it would require much discomfort to look honestly at the causes of Black social problems. It’s much easier psychologically to just blame Whitey. When they get their way, as in Baltimore over the last few years, all the problems just get worse, because Whitey ain’t really the problem. A similar thing would happen if Alabaman Whites ever got their way with abortion. It wouldn’t magically restore social conservatism, you’d just have more dumb thots on the dole and, after a decade or two, more crime.

      Tanturn

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • I think a lot of people, especially in places like AL, would fight against the sexual revolution but don’t really know how, especially not in a way that’s consistent with the First Amendment. It’s not like sexual mores were controlled by law in the past, other than maybe a bit of influence from local censorship. Local censorship is basically unworkable in the 21st century, aside from occasional things like PBS choosing not to broadcast gay marriage cartoons in AL.

        Abortion is something that can be resisted in a clear way using the law, and that’s within the Overton window and a reasonable reading of the Constitution, so it’s an area that social conservatives have targeted.

        Wency

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Someone is unclear on the concept.

        We have record levels of poverty and welfare use and crime increases. I am not arguing that abortion caused this. I am arguing that abortion did not correct for any of these problems.

        We have more poor, dumb people living on the dole and existing in general then we eve had before. What exactly did abortion solve?

        What Lion is arguing is a counterfactual: “Yeah, things are bad now, but imagine how much worse it would be if abortion was still illegal.”

        Well, no. You would simply have a continuation of the social conditions that presided when abortion was illegal.

        map

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Tanturn,

        Someone is unclear on the concept.

        We have record levels of poverty and welfare use and crime increases. I am not arguing that abortion caused this. I am arguing that abortion did not correct for any of these problems.

        We have more poor, dumb people living on the dole and existing in general then we eve had before. What exactly did abortion solve?

        What Lion is arguing is a counterfactual: “Yeah, things are bad now, but imagine how much worse it would be if abortion was still illegal.”

        Well, no. You would simply have a continuation of the social conditions that presided when abortion was illegal.

        map

        June 15, 2019 at EDT am

      • “We have more poor, dumb people living on the dole and existing in general then we eve had before. What exactly did abortion solve?”

        We also decided to start importing poor, dumb people by the millions. Obviously someone needs to take a deep dive into the statistics of poverty to determine how much that impacted our current poverty situation.

        Mike Street Station

        June 15, 2019 at EDT am

  18. “No one that I personally know has ever gotten an abortion.”

    I don’t have personal knowledge of anyone having an abortion either. But if someone had then we’d probably never know it. That’s not the kind of thing most women would want to talk about even with their own children… “By the way, I killed one of your siblings in utero.”

    “My main objection to pro-lifers is that they create a burden on taxpayers.”

    I don’t want to pay for someone else’s bastards OR your chronically ill father when he goes on social security and medicare. Can we kill him, too?

    “As for myself personally, I don’t have any reason to ever get an abortion. I’m getting married soon to the only partner I have ever had, whom I started dating in high school. “

    If you’ve been sexually active since high school then you’ve had plenty of opportunity. You were just careful (and lucky) enough not to. Though I suppose you should be congratulated on restricting your fornication to one partner.

    destructure

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Her chronically ill father paid taxes his whole life.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

      • He didn’t pay them to me! So why should I have to pay for him?

        destructure

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • You don’t pay to him, you pay to the government.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • “Her chronically ill father paid taxes his whole life.”

        Unless he is a recent immigrant from China or India. Politicians in Canada pander to immigrants by allowing them to bring over their elderly parents. Meanwhile those of us who have paid taxes all our life (and continue to pay taxes) have to share crowded hospitals with third world people.

        Rosenmops

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

    • I know at least three women who claim to have had abortions. Two of them are in my family.

      My mother once told me that, when I was in elementary school, she aborted one of my potential siblings. She claimed that it was for medical reasons.

      Honestly, I had a hard time dealing with that particular revelation. But I had a harder time dealing with her admission that, after learning of my conception, she planned to abort me and relented only because my grandmother talked her out of it.

      My mother has never been absolutely clear about the circumstances of my conception. Evidently my parents’ marriage was pretty much over by the time I became a zygote. Indeed, the divorce papers had already been drawn up. (When I asked her why she would have consensual sex with a man she was desperate to expunge from her life, she shrugged and said, “It just happened.”) Supposedly my father was due to assume some hefty legal and financial liabilities at the beginning of the next calendar year. My grandfather knew a judge who owed him a favor and was able to finalize the divorce by late December.

      Incidentally, I am now exactly as old as my mother was when she had me. By the time I was born, my mother had traveled extensively throughout the United States and Europe. She had lived in London for a year. She’d been married and divorced twice. I haven’t done any of those things. She always says that “it’s all still ahead of you,” but somehow I doubt it.

      My cousin – my mother’s sister’s daughter – once tearfully confessed while drunk out of her mind that she had an abortion while living with her last serious boyfriend before her husband. She didn’t tell him what she’d done. (Indeed, he didn’t even know she’d been pregnant.) But somehow he found out about it and kicked her to the curb. She married her husband – an old high-school flame – while still on the rebound. Both of them ended up regarding the marriage as the worst mistake of their lives.

      He tried to leave her, but relented after she threatened suicide. She got pregnant with their first child shortly thereafter. They now have two kids, so they’re both stuck.

      Honestly, I enjoy hearing about other people’s misfortune. It puts my own failures and disappointments in perspective.

      Stan Adams

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • That’s not true at all.

      One of my friends is from a prole town. This is all from him, but supposedly one of his friends from high school openly talks about having had an abortion in the past.

      Liberals are proud of their abortions. Liberal proles will often share on social media that they are “Strong feminist women!” because they had an abortion.

      It’s very rare for a high IQ, low testosterone, low sex drive woman to have an abortion. Because they either save themselves for marriage or save themselves for a long term relationship. The ones having sex in long term relationships use birth control and condoms ALL of the time.

      SC

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • I love it when liberals get abortions. I also love it when liberals off themselves. That does not mean I want either abortion or suicide to be celebrated.

        map

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Surveys show that most people grossly underestimate the percentage of women who have abortions. Twenty-seven percent of Americans think fewer than 10 percent of women will have an abortion in their lifetime; 51 percent say it’s fewer than 20 percent. The actual number is closer to 30 percent. Yet you think you don’t know any of them??? Even if it’s much less common among the people you know, with odds like that you’ve absolutely known a number of women who’ve had abortions. They’re just not telling people. Which is why most people underestimate the percentage and think they don’t know anyone who’s had one.

        “The ones having sex in long term relationships use birth control and condoms ALL of the time.”

        One can still get pregnant on birth control. 5% of women using reliable birth control find themselves unexpectedly pregnant. And it’s not just human error, either. Medications like antibiotics can nullify birth control. Even vomiting and diarrhea can flush it out of your system.

        Fornication is fornication whether it’s in a long term relationship or not. The point is that someone who lacks the self-control to wait is also much more likely to lack the self-control to be faithful. And that’s true whether it’s a hundred times with one person in a long term relationship or a hundred times with a hundred people in one night stands.

        If you had broken up would you have remained celibate until you got married? Of course not. You would have screwed your second, third and fourth boyfriends as well. Maybe even a couple of flings and one night stands as well. You’ve already had premarital sex so you can’t say you wouldn’t. And someone who will screw around before marriage is much more likely to screw around during marriage. On the one hand, you’ve both shown you lack the self-control not to act on your urges. On the other hand, you’ve managed to be faithful for several years. And he has too… that you know of. I’d say the odds are definitely in your favor but hardly the ‘sure thing’ that you imagine.

        destructure

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “One can still get pregnant on birth control.”

        Sounds like yet another argument for why abortion needs to be legal.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “Sounds like yet another argument for why abortion needs to be legal.”

        Or an argument for celibacy. Abstinence is the only b/c method that works every time it’s tried. But I don’t think abortion should be illegal. I think it should be safe, legal and rare. It’s not an either/or proposition. Just because abortion is legal doesn’t mean people should screw around. Same goes for alcohol, tobacco, drugs, gambling, etc. Legal or not, those things ruin a lot of lives.

        destructure

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • @destructure

        You don’t know me; you don’t know my friends.

        If my fiance and I had broken up I would only be open to a long term monogamous relationship. Because when I was 16 I made the decision to never ever have a fling or any type of casual sex. It’s not about morality for me. It’s about personal preference.

        I have zero interest in parties, flirting, casual dating, alcohol, weed, or casual sex.

        I only become friends with high IQ, low sex drive people who have the same general life preferences. About 80% of my friends would identify as introverts. Most of my friends are above average in conscientiousness. All of my friends have attended university. Almost all come from a high social background.

        If my world was perfect, everybody on earth would be a high IQ, low sex drive, introverted nerd.

        SC

        June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • “You don’t know me; you don’t know my friends.”

        You’re not that complicated.

        destructure

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

  19. There are no good arguments for abortion on demand.

    There are a couple arguments for giving consideration to what a doctor should do when an unborn baby with no chance to live is stuck somewhere in, or somewhere slightly outside of the womb, and where the unusual circumstances pose a danger to the life of the mother and the child.

    But if you think there is an argument for killing a little child for eugenics, or because you – and you are probably stupid yourself if you think this way – hate stupid people, or because you can’t get laid (as a man) without being a servile loser who tells women they have ” a right to do what they want with their body ” even though you know of course nobody can kill somebody else for selfish reasons particularly if that someone else is their child —-

    well, if you think that, you are on the road to deep, deep sadness and loneliness and lack of humanity., and there is nothing I can do to help you until you wake up and repent of your moronic evil attitude.

    howitzer Daniel

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • If you really think a fetus is “a little child” you are not living in reality. You probably think kittens have souls and cry when you see a bird with a broken wing. You do realize that God aborts children all the time, we call them “miscarriages”. It is also far more humane to kill a non-conscious group of cells than to kill the result of those cells 30 years later with a toxic injection after it has developed into a human being and committed a capital crime. You strike me as someone who is very lonely and sad and has tapped into this well of sentimentality to fill a hole in your life.

      Peter Akuleyev

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Of course kittens have souls! What do you do when you see a bird with a broken wind? Laugh and sneer?

        Rosenmops

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Here we go again. The theory that abortion is cutting crime.

        No, it is not.

        Again, you think your pulling a fast one on the Democrats.

        map

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Incredible. It’s far more humane to kill the innocent rather than the guilty, Peter says.

        Evil is saying that bad is good and good is bad.

        Andrew E.

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • If a kitten sees a bird with a broken wing, it will kill it for fun.

        Jokah Macpherson

        June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • A person is the same individual from conception to natural death. So, yes, a fetus is a little child. It doesn’t matter whether you believe an individual has a soul. He has a life. We have New York expanding the right to kill up to full term. It is not theoretically a slippery slope. It is a slippery slope right in front of us. If the government can deny the right to life to some. It can deny it to any. We defend the rights of others because it is the way we secure rights for ourselves. It is a matter of principle. It is very dangerous to be in the business of elevating the rights of some over others. In this case, women are given the authority to kill their own children. But it is a bad precedent. In Rome, it was the fathers who could kill their children. Far better to have a society where people, including women, believe they should care for one another and not just that others should care for them and that they should have the right to end the lives of the children they created.

        alice

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Peter, my young friend, you don’t know much about literature as you think you do either, years ago on another website you foolishly and vulgarly mocked my description of the Elena Ferrante novels.

        I knew there was something wrong with you a long time ago, with your little lists —as if you knew better than anyone else — which of the Nobel prize winners were worthy , and which were not —- you got it mostly right., but there was something off about your presentation. Aspergers, I thought, or someone who had been heavily influenced by an Aspergers view of life ……

        Gotta give you credit , you try hard to be eloquent, and you were right about Sigrid Undset.

        By the way, I am one of the least sad people you will ever meet.

        I hope , for your sake, that in real life you have friends like me.

        My goal in life is to teach people that the only joy that matters is the joy of caring about others, as if we were the friends of God that God wants us to be.

        howitzer Daniel

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • and Peter Shark, Peter Finesse, let me be, in the goodness of my heart, as helpful to you as I can.

        Do not ever again publicly support the demons who support the abortion regime.

        And do not ever again mock someone who battles those demons.

        May you one day be brave enough to understand.

        howitzer Daniel

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Peter, don’t take my comments to you as being unkind. I know dozens of old nuns who will pray for people who thoughtfully address the question of abortion, even people like you who are clueless.

        Let me be clear. Back in the day, the Arabs took as slaves everyone they could and they prohibited the slaves from having children. That was wrong!

        Similarly, it is wrong to use modern methods of persuasion to trick people who are considered less worthy than others into not having children.

        The slave-traders from back in the day were wrong, and so are the people today who try to encourage those they do not like to not have children, and to abort their little descendants before they are born.

        howitzer Daniel

        June 15, 2019 at EDT am

  20. I agree with SCs comments. The only difference is I do know a few women who had abortions. One time I even drove a woman to the abortion clinic. This was 20 years ago. I was in love with her but she friend zoned me while sleeping around with every guy in town. If she liked me I would have married her and we could have raised a family. Instead she slept with alphas, had a couple of abortions and then a couple of kids out of wedlock.

    Jay Fink

    June 12, 2019 at EDT pm

    • No decent person would string someone along. When I realized someone had feelings that I didn’t share I’d drop hints that I wasn’t interested. And if that didn’t work then I’d tell them flat out and make sure they understood. That may seem harsh but it’s kinder in the long run. Stringing someone along is extremely shitty. People will try to justify it by saying they don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings. But if they really cared about the person’s feelings then they would have ripped the band-aid off quickly and gotten it over with. You owe it to yourself not to let people use you like that.

      destructure

      June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • “No decent person would string someone along”

        What? Virtually all women do that; friendzone some guy to use for chores and favors.

        Mike Street Station

        June 15, 2019 at EDT am

  21. A healthy woman has no right to have an abortion. The child belongs to the nation, not to her. She is just carrying it to term. I know two PHDs that had abortions. One is very stupid the other one is not. Go figure….

    Yakov

    June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • I kind of agree with the sentiment, but the child does NOT belong to the nation.

      Maybe potential mothers have a duty to the nation, but no one really responds to that argument, even in ultra-nationalist places.

      The leaders of a nation — political, intellectual, moral, cultural, spiritual — CERTAINLY have a duty to promote God, family, and motherhood. The West is cursed because of their failure in this duty.

      Wency

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • I think Yakov was talking about the nation in a tribal context not a legal or political context. From a purely philosophical standpoint, I agree that a child belongs to its people.

      destructure

      June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • Yeah, exactly. Nation comes from the root word meaning birth. The nation consists in all those born of the same people. So, yes, the child deserves the protection of his life by his people.

        alice

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

    • ‘When my father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up.’ Psalms 27:10.

      When the parents forsake the child after the conception, how will the Lord take the child up in practical terms? Through the tribal/state mechanism. So that abandoned fetus belongs to the state in the sense of being the state’s responsibility.

      Yakov

      June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

  22. People act like we are still living in the 19th century, when child mortality was very high, and the risk of losing even one baby was dramatic. It ain’t that way. Having lived in Russia, I know many, many women who had abortions. Then they had kids. Or they had kids, then abortions. Or kid, abortion, kid.

    I also know at least one American woman who had an abortion early in her professional career. Then she married the man whose baby she aborted, had two more babies with him, and those kids are in elite colleges at the moment. Abortion just allowed her to make a lot of money before she had the children she wanted and basically set them up for life.

    Abortion is birth control, and a way for a woman to control her destiny, not a great method, but it works, and the end result is that most women have the number of kids they want to have. If you don’t like abortion, support research into cheap effective birth control.

    Peter Akuleyev

    June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • There already is plenty of cheap, effective birth control.

      I would guess that in families like what you describe, many of these women still would have ended up with more kids if not for abortion. I know an upper-class woman who aborted a child with her future husband, against his wishes (though he was still holding off on proposing, for whatever reason). They still ended up having 3 kids, but they got married late in life and she was approaching menopause with the last one. Now they tell me they wish they’d had 4 or 5.

      Surveys tend to show that women consistently have fewer children than they’d like. Mostly because they get started late.

      Wency

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

  23. The hardcore pro-lifers also belief that birth control pills are the same thing as abortion. That is why there have been all the fights over requiring health insurance to cover birth control. If Roe v Wade is overturned, I expect there to be a push to outlaw birth control pills and IUDs in many of the states that are now pushing to outlaw abortion. Would those states also outlaw women using birth control or having IUDs from traveling through the state? That would be the logical thing to do if you buy the argument the Evangelicals make against abortion and birth control.

    Clearly outlawing birth control would be deeply unpopular, but I’m not sure that would stop a few states from trying it.

    MikeCA

    June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • Birth Control is a Constitutional right according to Griswold v. Connecticut, a case with less notoriety than Roe v. Wade.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • Yes, but Griswold v. Connecticut was decided on right to privacy arguments. If Roe v Wade can be overturned so can Griswold v. Connecticut if you get the right judges on the court.

        MikeCA

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • if you get the right judges on the court.

        Which is what’s going to happen before Trump leaves office in 6 years.

        Andrew E.

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “The hardcore pro-lifers also belief that birth control pills are the same thing as abortion.”

      No. I actually know these people and don’t particularly like them. Can you give me a single Evangelical leader who has advocated this policy in the last 10 years? You’ve been watching too much CNN.

      Tanturn

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • The Catholic church has long opposed all artificial birth control including condoms. In spite of this Catholic frequently use birth control.

        Evangelicals only came to oppose abortion in the 1980s. Their position on birth control changed when they realized some of the arguments they apply to abortion also apply to some kinds of birth control. Evangelicals generally oppose IUDs and the morning after pill because they consider them to be aborifacient. There is a lot of debate about hormonal birth control pills, with some opposing them on the argument that they occasionally act like an aborifacient. The recent fight against the Obama care mandate that health insurance cover birth control seems to be pushing Evangelical leaders more towards the Catholic position.

        This a 2012 summary by Albert Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary:

        https://albertmohler.com/2012/06/05/can-christians-use-birth-control-4/

        This is a statement from Focus on the Family:

        http://media.focusonthefamily.com/topicinfo/position_statement-birth_control_pills_and_other_hormonal_contraception.pdf

        I expect that like Catholics, the majority of Evangelicals actually use birth control, including the pill.

        MikeCA

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • @MikeCA,

        You’ve failed to provide a single example of an Evangelical Christian leader arguing birth control should be illegal. All I ask for is one single example, and you can’t do it. I don’t have a high opinion of these anti-abortion people,(see my response to map’s comment above) but the difference between you and I is that I attempt to ground my beliefs in reality.

        Tanturn

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • There are some hardcore radicals who think IUDs and pills abort early embryos. Look athe American Life League or The Pill Kills. But I doubt that their ideas get acceptable by the society at large.

        Brazilian

        June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • They DO, they prevent fertilized eggs from continuing their life. I guess a soul doesn’t attach at the time of fertilization! Or does it?

        I guess it doesn’t matter because a fertilized egg doesn’t LOOK human, so who cares if it has a soul or not?

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • @Tanturn: “You’ve failed to provide a single example of an Evangelical Christian leader arguing birth control should be illegal.”

        What you actually said was: “Can you give me a single Evangelical leader who has advocated this policy in the last 10 years?”

        That was directly under your quote from my post that said “The hardcore pro-lifers also belief that birth control pills are the same thing as abortion.”

        I assumed that “this policy” in your post referred to the sentence you had quoted from my post. I think you need to be more careful how you use your pronouns.

        The group that I am familiar with that is pushing to make certain kinds of birth control illegal as well as abortion is the Personhood Alliance, which is an umbrella political organizing group. Their website says “The Personhood Alliance is a confederation of pro-life organizations and leaders who pursue personhood as the essential strategy for restoring legal protections to every human being, from biological beginning to natural death, and who, through God’s power and grace, endeavor to uphold the biblical worldview in 21st-century politics and culture.”

        The Personhood Alliance has been working at the state level to try get personhood bills or state constitutional amendments passed. These define life as beginning at fertilization. This would make abortion a form of murder. It would also make IUDs and morning after pills murder weapons. It could also effect hormonal birth control pills.

        Now the Personhood Alliance is not what I would call an Evangelical leader. They are a political organization with obvious religious underpinning designed to appeal to all opposed to abortion. However, Christian leaders generally do not engage in direct political arguments like suggesting that certain things should be made illegal. They talk about things as moral issues and leave it to others to make the political argument. (This helps keep there tax exempt status with the IRS.) Clearly Evangelical leaders are making the moral argument against some kinds of birth control.

        MikeCA

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • @MikeCA,

        What I meant was the “policy” of making birth control illegal, not their own beliefs about the issue, apologies if it was unclear. There is not a single Evangelical Christian leader I am aware of who wants to make ordinary birth control pills* illegal. You can say that “Christian leaders generally do not engage in direct political arguments like suggesting that certain things should be made illegal,” but then you’d have to explain why almost every single Evangelical Christian leader freely argues that abortion should be illegal. Occam’s Razor is that they want to ban one thing but not the other.

        *When you said “birth control pills,” I assumed you were using the word in the way it is customarily used for. If you meant something else, you should have made that clear.

        Tanturn

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Birth control is so ingrained in modern society that it is not politically viable to ban it. Does anyone in his/her right mind can imagine a western industrialized society without contraceptive pills?

      Even developing countries much poorer than the USA use contraceptives in large scale and are having demographic transitions much faster. Even the ultracatholic Phillipines.

      It would be an insanity to think that the USA would become one of those African hellholes with 7 children per women. It would be too extreme (and weird).

      Grisworld vs. Connecticut will stay. They will twist the concept of right of privacy by whatever necessary means.

      Brazilian

      June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • If we had sent the poor countries contraceptives instead of food, and kept the food to feed our kids instead of killing them, we would be far better off, locally and globally.

        alice

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

  24. People are starting to get smart and get married around 28 – 35 years or later. But on same hand it’s not realistic of people to never have sex till that age. Even careful people slip up, forget to take bc pill regularly. Unwanted pregnancy can and will happen. Middle class women and rich women will always have the luxury to go to a different state.
    Whether we want to eliminate options for poor women is the question.

    mpt

    June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • “People are starting to get smart and get married around 28 – 35 years or later.”

      Uh, that is not smart at all.

      Younger women have healthier children.

      Late marriage is a sign of social distress.

      When things are going swimmingly, the young people get married at ages much more appropriate to actual human reproductive onset.

      In the past, the rich married young because they could. Royalty married in their teens. Prince Albert was 19 when he married Victoria aged 20.

      Late marriage is not good.

      alice

      June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The opportunity cost of having kids is high in societies where there are other options for women. That’s why in progressive societies birth rates drop off. Only backward societies have high birth rates.

        Mpt

        June 15, 2019 at EDT am

  25. What if abortion were allowed in cases of rape, incest, and black babies?

    Roger

    June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • That would be unconstitutional discrimination against whites.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • I thought he was making a joke that only black babies could be aborted.

        I just read that some states are passing laws that make it illegal to abort babies that will have Downs (but abortions for other reasons are allowed). IMO, this is insane.

        CamelCaseRob

        June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • I couldn’t think of a better reason to have an abortion than the baby having Down Syndrome.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “I couldn’t think of a better reason to have an abortion than the baby having Down Syndrome.”

        This ad campaign didn’t win you over?

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

      • When I was 3 years old, my babysitter had a daughter with Downe’s. She was several years older (maybe 10?) and I still knew something was seriously wrong with her. I remember overhearing the babysitter talking about having the girl sterilized. Basically, she was worried that some piece of garbage might take advantage of her sometime. And there was no way she’d ever be able to raise a child when she can’t even take care of herself.

        PS: I’m surprised I could understand a conversation like that at 3. I’m even more surprised that I can remember something from that young and long ago.

        destructure

        June 15, 2019 at EDT am

    • It would get nitpicked to death. What is a “black baby”? How much African dna can it have before you can abort it? Does the rapist have to have been convicted before the abortion? In many cases, by the time the rapist is actually convicted and sentenced, the baby could be waddling around in diapers, especially if the rapist appeals the initial conviction. If a woman only has to declare she has been raped before getting an abortion, that is not going to make men’s lives more pleasant. Abortion with no strings attached, or no abortion at all.

      Peter Akuleyev

      June 13, 2019 at EDT am

      • “If a woman only has to declare she has been raped before getting an abortion, that is not going to make men’s lives more pleasant.”

        Do we really want to make life easier for baby daddies? Look, I don’t really care who gets punished for having bastards as long as it cuts down on the number of bastards. Right now there are long-legged mac daddies running around trying to knock women up with no intention of marrying them. That needs to stop.

        destructure

        June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • “Do we really want to make life easier for baby daddies? Look, I don’t really care who gets punished for having bastards as long as it cuts down on the number of bastards. Right now there are long-legged mac daddies running around trying to knock women up with no intention of marrying them. That needs to stop.”

        This.

        The problem with women and the rape thing is that women lie and they lie a lot. Sure, rapists need stiff penalties, but there needs to be more evidence than just the woman’s allegation.

        Don’t believe women.

        alice

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

  26. There needs to be a prominent nonprofit/charity focused on providing free, (or ideally free with a cash incentive) long term birth control and sterilization for the poor. Something along the lines of Planned Parenthood but without the abortion… That would kill Planned Parenthood. I’m in the medical field, and a moderate, a fence sitter on abortion, and believe that right now *elective* abortion should be forbidden past the point of fetal viability. That’s where most of Western Europe is right now and I feel like it’s viable politically. Any normal person who has actually laid eyes on a 20 week fetus would agree that it’s barbaric to kill it. Most Ob-Gyns don’t want anything to do with elective surgical abortions because of their distaste for it. They know it’s wrong. The ones who will are on the Asperger’s spectrum or they’re brainwashed radical feminists. Medical abortions (the abortion pill) can be done out to about 10-11 weeks gestational age and ideally we’d be at a point where that’s the cutoff and no elective surgical abortions are being done at all. Support for 2nd and 3rd trimester abortion hinges in a large part on not being able to see what is being killed i.e. the idea that it’s just a jellybean or a tadpole. Squashing a jelly bean that we can’t see is easy to accept. But a fully formed baby? No.

    Kosher Kowboy

    June 13, 2019 at EDT am

    • ” Any normal person who has actually laid eyes on a 20 week fetus would agree that it’s barbaric to kill it.”

      And most normal people would be grossed out by open heart surgery or a host of other medical procedures. Not a valid reason for forbidding the procedure.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Not, Lion, that’s not what I mean. I don’t mean “grossed out.” I mean coming face to face with the vivid reality that you’re slaughtering/dismembering/sucking the brains out of a live, and unmistakably human child.

        Kosher Kowboy

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

    • The left loves to tout how Europe does things. But Kowboy is right that the US is way more extreme than Europe on abortion. There’s a big difference between 10 weeks and 20 weeks. I don’t know where the cut-off should be. But it should definitely be before 20 weeks unless it’s medically necessary.

      Most people (including most pro-lifers) support some abortion options. But most people (including most pro-choicers) oppose abortion past a certain point. Late term abortion is NOT a moderate position. It’s a fringe position.

      destructure

      June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • All my lifetime, the left has always had Europe envy.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        June 14, 2019 at EDT am

      • The earliest that I remember encountering this was in first grade. As I recall, we were told that “everything” was better and more efficient in Europe. The teacher’s politics and anti-patriotism went over like a lead balloon. We had a mock election that year and all but one of us voted for Reagan. The kid who voted for Walter Mondale got so upset he started to cry, and I told him we were still friends.

        Funny that even as Europe envy intensifies, Europe, and especially Sweden have become a boogie man for the right, warning people of what could happen if they put leftist ideology into practice.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

  27. “I just want other women to get abortions, because i don’t want my future kids to have to share a classroom with low IQ violent bastard kids.”

    Not a Ned Stark admirer I take it?

    CMC

    June 13, 2019 at EDT am

  28. Speaking of abortions…….

    Those of you who have been following the aborted coup REALLY need to watch this interview with Bill Binney – 45 mins of the most valuable time you may spend – if, that is, you want your eyes (further?) opened.

    “Bill Binney really puts to bed the DNC hack narrative in this Bill Still interview. I recommend watching the whole thing. On the one hand it’s incredibly grim. The NSA has everything on everyone. Period. On the other hand Binney nods and winks about some good things he cannot discuss that are in the offing.”

    Key points:
    – Bill Binney apparently has Bill Barr’s ear – see above quote – HUGE!
    – The “Deep State” is working assiduously to keep Julian Assange
    – Bill Binney has been funnelling his info to POTUS since 2016
    – Wray & Haspel are dirty and will try to resist Barr’s investigations.
    – unelected bureaucrats spy on everyone (yes, John Roberts WAS compromised and changed his vote on Obamacare accordingly) – literally everyone who might have any influence. They essentially run this country.

    Have fun.

    What? You still think Russia did their best to get Trump elected? Still think the ICA came from 17 different intelligence agencies. Try 3 – CIA, FBI & NSA. Brennan, Comey & Clapper.

    Take the damn red pill.

    gda53

    June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

    • LOL!

      Two in the Bush

      June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

  29. I see abortion as the least favorable form of birth control. I should say that my son was conceived by his birthmother out of wedlock while she was still in college. He has grown up into a fine man who is currently raising his own version of himself. It would have been a shame had his mother decided to abort him. I used to believe that a woman had total control over her body. I no longer believe that but in fact as someone said earlier, she has an obligation to society at large. Hopefully birth control will become easier to use and more affordable as well. While I do have some questions regarding the birth of stupid people, en mass. I also hope that it will eventually be unnecessary, except cases of rape and incest.

    Odensraven

    June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Good luck getting women (or men, for that matter) to do anything because of “an obligation to society at large.” Even piety towards one’s ancestors rarely influences people’s decisions.

      Maryk (the g-loaded guidette)

      June 14, 2019 at EDT pm

  30. I don’t know, I don’t think abortion has much of an impact because the true underclass isn’t responsible enough to even get them:

    https://goraobso.blogspot.com/2019/06/response-to-lion-of-blogosphere-on.html

    Gael Meed

    June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Most typically, underclass women get abortions after the first child, when they realize it’s not all that it was cracked up to be and they don’t want any more.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The old stereotype about abortions was that it was the good middle class girl who’s family would be ashamed of her getting pregnant. If that were the case today, then there wouldn’t be much eugenic effect from abortion…. but it seems to have gotten more working class as the traditional middle class has disappeared. You might be right about underclass women. But my experience in underclass women have tons of kids from different men….. and obviously aren’t getting abortions.

        Gael Meed

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • That’s an interesting observation. I’m curious to learn more about this.

        And I wonder if abortion opponents also oppose IVF; if so, I never seem to hear about it.

        Hallie Scott Kline

        June 13, 2019 at EDT pm

      • My observation is that abortions are for people who failed at all previous stages of birth control planning. This failure to plan birth control is nearly synonymous with low future time orientation. In other words: “Most typically, underclass women”.

        “And I wonder if abortion opponents also oppose IVF; if so, I never seem to hear about it.”

        Basically no. None of these pro-life types oppose IVF. Unlike other readers of this blog, I grew up around the core supporters of the pro-life movement, and I know what makes them tick.

        Pro-lifers like babies, and they hate consequence free casual sex. IVF makes babies, and doesn’t involve consequence free casual sex. So to a pro-lifer, IVF is cool.

        The same people who volunteer for Birthright International and other crisis pregnancy centers also try to curb sex-ed programs that promote the use of condoms to students under the age of 18. One way they do this is by trying to foster a belief that condoms don’t prevent the transmission of venereal disease.

        I remember listening to them talking about all this, and thinking:
        “You’re not really afraid that condoms don’t work. You’re afraid that they do work.”

        When the HPV vaccine came out in 2006, there was a backlash against that as well. It was all the same people involved. The counter argument made to them had to be: `What if your daughter never has promiscuous sex and saves her self for marriage, but she gets raped. The vaccine could save her from cancer. Would you still deny it to her? ` That was enough to quash the resistance.

        Never ever have I heard one of these people raise concerns about IVF, or want to discuss the topic when I brought it up.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        June 14, 2019 at EDT pm


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