Lion of the Blogosphere

False information about SATs and college admissions in Atlantic article

The article says:

Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, and Yale collectively enroll more students from households in the top 1 percent of the income distribution than from households in the bottom 60 percent. Legacy preferences, nepotism, and outright fraud continue to give rich applicants corrupt advantages. But the dominant causes of this skew toward wealth can be traced to meritocracy. On average, children whose parents make more than $200,000 a year score about 250 points higher on the SAT than children whose parents make $40,000 to $60,000.

If we learned anything from the recent news story about the rich and famous parents who paid people to take the SAT for their kids, we should have learned that wealth doesn’t guarantee high SAT scores. We should also know the SAT is only one of many factors for admission to elite schools, and we regularly hear that elite schools reject applicants with even perfect SAT or ACT scores in favor of lower-scoring students who show “leadership potential” on their application. “Leadership potential” more often than not just means kids who did the right things because they come from a wealthy background where the right things to do are well known. And then to guarantee that their kids do the right things, rich parents can hire the best college admissions consultants. Meanwhile, clueless Asian immigrant parents of modest means are duped into thinking that all their kids have to do is study and get good grades and test scores and they will be rewarded for that, but it doesn’t happen.

There would be more kids admitted from the bottom 60% and fewer from the top 1% if elite schools stopped looking at stuff other than SAT scores.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

August 21, 2019 at EDT am

Posted in Education

119 Responses

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  1. It’s rather unfortunate that Anglo colonialism didn’t see the virtues of Eastern Asiatics as the quintessential workforce to exploit politely in its capitalistic scheme. Given that industrialized East Asia remains the wealthiest region in the world and its citizens are pretty obliging with lower thresholds for life satisfaction. Historically, China was far wealthier than any European power, given it’s docile and industrious nature of its population.

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

    • That’s where England fucked up. They got China hooked on opium. Should have waged the Amphetamines Wars.

      njguy73

      August 21, 2019 at EDT am

      • Speaking of the Opium period of Chinese history, I know nothing beyond what I read in a popular history a few years ago. It cracked me up when in it there was an account of an altercation between Chinese locals and some of the small British colony early in the “relationship.” During the showdown, gongs were heard, announcing the coming of a mandarin to settle the difference. The Chinese were excited and pleased, yelling happily, “A mandarin is coming!” Could you imagine a ruckus between whites and nonwhites happening in the Anglosphere or Europe today where the whites were cheered by the arrival of police or a magistrate?

        Yellow River Pierhead Blues

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “Could you imagine a ruckus between whites and nonwhites happening in the Anglosphere or Europe today where the whites were cheered by the arrival of police or a magistrate?”

        Yes actually.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Explain.

        njguy73

        August 24, 2019 at EDT am

    • That’s where England fucked up. They got China hooked on opium. Should have waged the Amphetamines Wars.

      njguy73

      August 21, 2019 at EDT am

      • My hunch is that some of the savvier politicos in DC, such as Mitch McConnell whose wife is Chinese is far wealthier than many of his fellow Republicans and also Democrats, just with the number of undisclosed assets dealing with the Chinese. I believe this became a meme for an investigation. Bill and Hillary Clinton are in the same predicament, not only did they colluded with Chinese money in their campaign donations, most likely, the Clintons are still receiving an undisclosed amount of wealth from a certain individuals who are deemed their “Chinese friends”.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        August 21, 2019 at EDT am

    • “East Asia remains the wealthiest region in the world”

      No.

      Alexander Turok

      August 21, 2019 at EDT am

      • In Canada admission is based entirley on grades. (except in certain programs, such as medicine, where they have interviews )

        My son took some 3rd year chemestry courses at UBC in Vancouver a few years ago. He said all the science classes were 98% Chinese. UBC was pretty much all white until the late 70’s, when a few Chinese began to arrive.

        If the Chinese are so smart why aren’t there universities in China that are better than UBC? Why are so many Chinese people moving to counties that were created by white people?

        I’m not denying that Chinese might be smarter on average than whites. I just don’t understand why they don’t stay in their own damned country and be smart there, and leave us alone. Canada was doing very well with almost no Chinese. We don’t need them. But some of them seem to think they need our societies and institutions. They are NOT improving things. And now the ones from mainland China and the ones from Hong Kong (who are more westernized) are having rival protests in Vancouver.

        https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/daphne-bramham-chinas-long-reach-laid-bare-by-hong-kong-protests/amp

        Rosenmops

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Why are so many Chinese people moving to counties that were created by white people?

        It’s called “conquering territory.”

        bomag

        August 23, 2019 at EDT am

    • Anglo colonialism has been extremely successful. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore and of course the USA. Things didn’t work out so well for the Spanish and French.

      Rosenmops

      August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • And hence the problems of Chinese immigration in Canada, USA and Australia. You don’t find large colonies of Chinese in let’s say in Latin America, where they overwhelm the locals.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        August 23, 2019 at EDT am

  2. The key words are “On Average”, which is almost certainly true. What isn’t mentioned is there are a lot more people making 40-60k per year so smart poor kids outnumber the rich smart kids.

    everybodyhatesscott

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

  3. The most recent and thorough examination of acceptance to highly selective universities was performed by a Princeton sociologist named Espenshade and published under the title No Longer Separate, Not Quite Equal.

    The Espanshade study shows the people being discriminated against the most in admissions are working class whites from flyover country. The study showed poor asians were 6 times more likely and poor blacks 10 times more likely to be accepted as equally qualified poor whites. Blacks and asians are not, however, the ones doing the discriminating. It’s wealthy whites who transfer their affirmative action burden to poor whites. Admissions committees make more room for wealthy whites from New England by discriminating against working class whites from Wyoming, Nebraska and Alabama.

    I was recently reminded of this while reading an old interview between Scarlett Johansson and Darren Aronofsky. Aronofsky said he got a 1,360 on the SAT. Then I went to his wikipedia and saw that he went to Harvard. Since when is 1,360 Harvard material?

    https://www.today.com/popculture/scarlett-johansson-reveals-pretty-low-sat-score-8C11323112

    destructure

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

    • Frightening as it may be 1300 is still above the average of the highest achieving demographics. It also may have been a lopsided score, very high in one category and low in the other.

      The specialized HSs in nyc are more likely to accept someone with a perfect/ near perfect score in one section of the SHSAT and low on the other, than someone who is very high average in both (for example).

      toomanymice

      August 21, 2019 at EDT am

      • I didn’t know SIT (short for Staten Island Technical) is a high school that requires the SHSAT until now.

        https://www.siths.org/m/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=170344&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=350359

        Here are the student demographics for the school.

        Two very interesting questions, where do the Asian students come from and are the White students mostly local in origin, presumably, not very Italian if it was the case?

        Commuting to Staten Island to attend this school would be a nightmare, perhaps just as worse as a Brooklynite commuting to Bronx Science.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Staten Island Tech has consistently ranked in the top 100 high schools in the country and its SHSAT cutoff is second to Stuyvesant, at least last I read about it. There are a lot of asians on SI and the white population at tech is largely russian and the occasional bright child of 2nd / 3rd generation guidos.

        SI is seeing a burgeoning population of muslims, I don’t know if they count as ‘white’ at tech.

        SI italians are being replaced at a rapid clip by southeast asians, asians, russians and muslims. SI AAs are being replaced (or I should say, have already been replaced) by mexicans, haitians and from-africa africans.

        toomanymice

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

    • He entered Harvard in 1987, and average SAT scores there and everywhere else were much lower then. This was before the renorming on the middle nineties, not to mention the renormings since then that have given even the dumbest kid on the block higher scores than he would ever have had back in the day.

      Mister Triple 800

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Took SAT pre-1994 “re-centring”.

        With a 1360 score he would likely have had an IQ of around 140 – very much Harvard material I would have thought.

        gda53

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Mister Triple 800 — As you can see from this chart, the scores didn’t change much until they redid the test in 2016. A 1360 would have still put him at the very bottom of the class for whites at Harvard. There’s no way to explain his getting into Harvard except that someone had their thumb on the scale.

        https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-sat-scores-over-time

        destructure

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • Destructure – I have seen college guides from many years ago, and I remembered some figures. The average SAT’s at Harvard in the early seventies were in the low 700’s (700 Verbal vs 710 or so Math), but by the mid eighties both had declined to the high 600’s (e.g., 680 or 690 or so for both). If you go back earlier, back to say 1950 or so the average verbal score was around 600 according to some sources, even in the early sixties they were still solidly in the 600’s. A score of 1360 (which might mean 680 on both) would have put Aronofsky close to the middle of his class in 1987. David Duchovny (or “X-Files” fame) got into Princeton with double 680’s back in the late seventies, according to an interview I saw once. Not so unusual. 1600 scores were vanishingly rare back then, not like now. Anyone who believes kids today are so much smarter just because thousands of the little bastards get 1600’s while we were lucky if had 15 in the same year three decades ago is gullible beyond belief. As for your chart, which matches pre- and post-recentering scores, the averages would have been similar – that was the whole point of the recentering – but the scores were inflated at the high end, especially in verbal. I saw one conversion chart that recentered any verbal score from the middle 700’s on up to 800, for instance.

        Mister Triple 800

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • When corrected for the testing grading standards being changed, SAT scores have been decreasing. (Some people blame the decline on more people taking the test.)

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Mister Triple 800 — I noticed that your reply doesn’t contain any data. Do you have any?

        destructure

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • It would’ve been very difficult to get into Harvard with a score of 1360, even back in the 80s.

        He studied and travelled abroad and trained as a field biologist during high school, which is the kind of special activity that would help you get into Harvard with a relatively low score.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Aronofsky#Early_life_and_education

        “During his youth, he trained as a field biologist with The School for Field Studies in Kenya in 1985 and Alaska in 1986.[16] He attended school in Kenya to pursue an interest in learning about ungulates.[16] He later said, “[T]he School for Field Studies changed the way I perceived the world”.[16] Aronofsky’s interest in the outdoors led him to backpack his way through Europe and the Middle East. In 1987, he entered Harvard University, where he majored in social anthropology and studied filmmaking; he graduated in 1991.[17]”

        Tom

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “It would’ve been very difficult to get into Harvard with a score of 1360, even back in the 80s.”

        My black friend from Stuyvesant got into Harvard with that score!

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Destructure – I had numbers in my response. I just didn’t have any links to verify them. I think that’s what you meant by “data”. I would have provided links if I could have found them, and I looked. The Lion is right, however, in that SAT scores have been declining, but that is a very recent phenomenon and what they have been declining from had been inflated for years.

        Mister Triple 800

        August 23, 2019 at EDT am

    • They don’t want the working class whites there because they don’t want them marrying into their families. It’s hard to blame them; for all the whining from the Manosphere about how men prefer women with street smarts and a high school/AA diploma, on a eugenics level that’s a disaster.

      Jesse

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • And where did you go to school, sweety?

        destructure

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • I don’t get how marrying someone that is a poor white from flyover country with a high SAT score (aka high IQ) is a disaster “on a eugenics level” more than more than marrying the people the biased admissions counselor lets in in their stead: a moderately lower IQ but polished wealthy north eastern white or a much lower IQ non-Asian minority affirmative action admit.

        I know regression to the mean is a thing for families too, which points in the wealthy whites favor, but at best that would mean that between a poor high IQ white and a wealthy not quite so high IQ white it would be wash from a eugenics standpoint.

        I think you mean it’s a disaster from a family wealth retention perspective, which doesn’t benefit our genes too much in the contemporary american non-malthusian environment.

        A_friend

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • No, the real eugenics disaster is the antinatalist mindset of the elite, which dovetails with environmentalist fanaticism, trickling down to curtail fertility of conscientious, secular leaning [read: non religious wackos], intelligent individuals.

        toomanymice

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

  4. “There would be more kids admitted from the bottom 60% and fewer from the top 1% if elite schools stopped looking at stuff other than SAT scores.”

    Fewer NAMs, too.

    College admissions is another example of the top/bottom war against the middle.

    But I *might* say there is something to be said from preventing schools from becoming 60+% Asian. They hit the books hard and get top scores, but there is truth is the stereotype of them being bookish and uncreative. Why should a University be full of just one type?

    The real problem is just the insane overpopulation and competition for ever more scarce college spots. It shouldn’t be *that* hard for a nice normal smart American kid to get into UCLA or something.

    fakeemail

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

    • “But I *might* say there is something to be said from preventing schools from becoming 60+% Asian. They hit the books hard and get top scores, but there is truth is the stereotype of them being bookish and uncreative. Why should a University be full of just one type?”

      Because the purpose of University is studying stuff.

      If people want to do something creative that doesn’t require studying, maybe society shouldn’t make them go to a university.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 21, 2019 at EDT am

      • Do the run in the mill colleges and universities matter at all? The best career opportunities are afforded to those who attend the most prestigious of schools and everyone else are fighting for scraps. Asians are pretty much vocational with their studies, and any school with a smattering of liberal arts studies aren’t cut for them. There should be another alternative of career training in the higher occupations of medicine and engineering, similar to the run in the mill job training schools made out for NAMs and proles who pursue lower order occupations.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        August 21, 2019 at EDT am

      • “Because the purpose of University is studying stuff.”

        No, the purpose of Universities is #1 Western cultural continuity and #2 preparing the next generation of leadership for your nation.

        Where we are now is that the universities not only do NOT do #1, they purposefully do the precise opposite and behave as a cultural corrosive. And in terms of #2, why are we educating the scions of wealthy foreigners? Very simply, what should (and never will) happen with education:

        1. At least half of colleges/universities should be shut, immediately.

        2. All foreign students should be expelled and all foreign faculty dismissed. This should extend to first generation Americans (i.e. anchor babies). Only 2nd generation or more citizens should be allowed to assume valuable seats in universities. This does not apply to those of European descent.

        3. All “grievance” studies programs should be immediately shut down, their faculty dismissed and their publications closed.

        4. All cultural studies (Literature, History, Philosophy, etc. ) must be re-engineered to be pro-American and patriotic in sentiment, their goal being to create well educated, pro-American patriots.

        That’s not asking too much, is it? It’s what a healthy nation would do.

        peterike

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • @peterike – Agree that the foreign thing is a big deal, and underrated.
         

        People who’ve been out of school for a while might not realize just how pervasive it’s becoming. I recently graduated from a certain university in Cambridge, MA and got into and took classes at the other one. As you walk through these campuses nowadays, you sometimes feel as though you aren’t even in the United States. I know of at least one graduate program at Harvard whose director is foreign and which, as of a year ago, did not have a single American student in its incoming class.
         

        This has a certain effect on the academic mindset. Academia should be concerned with the dispassionate pursuit of truth, but in many fields it does matter to some extent Whose Side You Are On. Sailer wrote about this a while back when economist Stanley Fischer became vice chairman of the US Fed after having previously run the central bank of Israel. Was it really appropriate for him to serve in such a high-ranking US role after he served in a foreign government? Well, it’s a lot easier to rationalize that if you decide central banking consists of solving abstract equations rather than making concrete decisions that benefit specific populations, perhaps at the expense of other populations.
         

        In many elite university classrooms nowadays, a substantial number of the students are foreign nationals and others are hyphenated Americans with ambivalent attitudes towards the historic American population. In these environments it would be very…uncomfortable…to make a full-throated American nationalist argument. Things are a lot less awkward when you ignore the Whose Side Are You On question and treat everything as a technocratic math problem. I suspect that plays a role in the question of corporate responsibility addressed in the recent post. Complaining about outsourcing and the geostrategic cost of technology transfers is a lot more uncomfortable when you’re sitting next to a Chinese citizen. It’s much more pleasant when you focus on shareholder return and pretend the rest doesn’t matter.
         

        Deshawntavious

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The “foreignization” I discussed above has a funny effect on the student body racial debate. It’s common for mainstream publications to compare the racial makeup of elite American universities with that of the US as a whole. But what they’re implying, when so many of the students are foreign, is that race matters more than citizenship. They’re implicitly saying that a Nigerian citizen at Yale represents a black American in the hood more than a white American Yale student from Iowa. And that a white student from Denmark represents a white truck driver from Alabama more than a black student from Alabama does.

        Deshawntavious

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • You’re ignoring the social side. Once anything becomes heavily Oriental/Asian, it loses prestige even among Orientals and Asians.

        Plus, universities need to consider which alumni will become donors in the future.

        Jesse

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • @Peterike: while I agree with you on the foreign students and faculty (I’d include whites), I’m failing to see a difference on 4 between you and the SJWs who want the curriculum made more PC. Let the research go where it will.

        Jesse

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The purpose of university is not “studying stuff”, it is to advance knowledge i.e. research and to create capable workers for the economy. Studying stuff is just one of the components required to achieve this but creativity, inter personal skills and other various traits are also important and universities are looking for them. A university with only high SAT students with no other skills will surely under perform in all aspects.

        Hashed

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The Western University is essentially a continuum of the dialectic of the School of Athens and therefore the facilitation of Athenian aristocracy and its immortal culture. The added theological dimension of the God of Israel amalgamated to cause the propellent of global Westernism since the Industrial Revolution is an effect of the Natural Philosophical discourse during the Enlightenment. Newton’s Principia is not possible without Malebranche’s Occasionalism.

        The fact both theology and mathematics – at its most advanced realization with frequency-domain analysis – are not studied universally is a suitable explanation for the poor breeding of our current nation. The natural aptitude to understand the pure mathematics of the dirac delta function or discrete Fourier transform, as examples of complex analytical geometry applied to our now virtually continuous-time digital signaling, would inhibit this painful buffoonery.

        A Dilettante

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “Because the purpose of University is studying stuff.”

        Since when? From what I can tell, their primary purpose is to promote the left’s political agenda.

        That corporate round table you posted about just said there were some things more important than creating value for shareholders. I agree. Which is why we don’t let corporations dump toxic waste in lakes and rivers anymore. So while the primary mission of businesses and universities may be to make money and educate people there are still things that are more important such as national security, public health, etc. They shouldn’t be allowed to do things that undermine those. In short, I agree with Peter.

        destructure

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • “The fact both theology and mathematics – at its most advanced realization with frequency-domain analysis – are not studied universally is a suitable explanation for the poor breeding of our current nation.
        …”

        Control engineering graduate? When I see what cadres replaced old professors (with their knowledge and deep understanding, personalities aside) at my university, it makes me feel sad.

        krakonos

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • @krakonos: I studied Biomedical Engineering which requires practice in LTI theory for many medical imaging applications. But there was no time to study the pure mathematics of its heritage from control theory.

        I’m writing a book establishing the mathematical principles of evolutionary biological complexity across species using discrete-time systems analysis to model organisms as motion control systems and I am astonished to understand the frequency-domain as natural with evidence found in the observed effect of mathematical convolution by a physically analog electrical circuit – with convolution being foundational to the mathematical possibility of digital communication. It has major historical implications for the understanding of Euler’s Formula as natural and therefore evidence of an ideal (purely mathematical) perception of nature, which any proper science in accord with British Empiricism aims for.

        The fact Western academia is not concerned with understanding nor educating the frequency-domain phenomenon ever-present in our lives with the Internet – and is strong evidence of a Berkeleyian immaterial reality of pure mind when mated to the Davisson-Germer experiment – is frankly embarrassing. Sociologically speaking, it is the most damning evidence of the proletarian capture of culture.

        A Dilettante

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • As you walk through these campuses nowadays, you sometimes feel as though you aren’t even in the United States. I know of at least one graduate program at Harvard whose director is foreign and which, as of a year ago, did not have a single American student in its incoming class.

        Twenty-five years ago, I was the only American-born student in my graduate Comp Sci classes at the University of FL. All Indian and non-English speaking Chinese. Oh, and one quite competent black Jamaican female.

        E. Rekshun

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Comp-sci graduate programs are seen as a backdoor to getting a visa to work here.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Agree. Though for the most elite schools, it’s mostly just a war of top against middle; compare how many black students at Harvard are ADOS vs. descendants of the Nigerian elite.

      The extra-curricular zero-sum game is very dystopian. We seem to have made the lives of teenagers much worse for no benefit. Actually, negative benefit: teenagers used to work after-school jobs and actually begin contributing to the economy before age 22.

      Wency

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • You’re trying to do the exact social engineering that you accuse the liberals of doing.

      I hate it when liberal admission officers artificially insert black and hispanic kids who don’t have what it takes to be successful on their own two feet.

      And I equally dislike it when people like you want to engage in social engineering to artificially insert more extroverted party kids into a university.

      If the nerds meet the requirements but not the jocks, let it be. Don’t change the requirements just so you can have some forced personality and hobby diversity.

      SC

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “You’re trying to do the exact social engineering that you accuse the liberals of doing.”

        No he’s not. There’s a big difference between national security and social engineering. Allowing radicals and foreigners to push an anti-american agenda obviously threatens national security.

        destructure

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

  5. “study and get good grades and test scores and they will be rewarded for that, but it doesn’t happen.”. They will be rewarded. It doesn’t make them stand out as the “potentially famous” people the most elite schools want, but they will get into a good school.

    Steverino@steverino.com

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

  6. On average, children whose parents make more than $200,000 a year score about 250 points higher on the SAT than children whose parents make $40,000 to $60,000.

    —->
    They don’t give the explanation :
    – money can buy prep allowing to improve scores (pragmatic)

    – the test is biased for bourgeoisie and poor kids have to learn the language of the bourgeoisie wich is like a foreign language to them (neo-marxist)
    – there is a correlation among money and success (yes Lion, but it could be your magic 120 threshold) and thus the rich are more intelligent, their kids are also more intelligent even if it’s slightly less, and as SAT is strongly correlated with verbal and numerical IQ , it’s normal that the kid of the rich do on average better

    Problem is « very few people » will think about hypothesis number 3 .

    Bruno

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

    • #3 is correct, even though, as I have pointed out, low IQ predicts poverty better than high IQ predicts wealth.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 21, 2019 at EDT am

      • It would be very inelegant if the correlation wasn’t monotonous, both at both sides of the bell curve, and also at the extreme, and in particular if it worked in terms of discrete thresholds (Fucked under 80, useless once above 120) .

        The only mitigating factor I see against a uniform correlation around 0.5 among wealth and IQ, even mediated by grades, is that under 60, there are more people with diseases than just congenital dumbness, and I suspect that above 145, people started being less neurotypical. But it may be only a question related to IQ solitude, where do you find people like yourself there ….

        Bruno

        August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “On average, children whose parents make more than $200,000 a year score about 250 points higher on the SAT than children whose parents make $40,000 to $60,000.”

      So why do white kids from the $40-60K bracket do better than blacks from the $200K+ bracket?

      peterike

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • 1) because black parents have benefited of positive discrimination and not white parents so that at any give IQ above 100, black do better than whites .

        2) because there is the regression to the mean. So kids with two parents with a 130 IQ, would regress to 120 for Jewish kids, 118 for East Asian kids, 115 for white kids and 98 for black kids. So there is a 20 IQ points gap between black and white kids with the parents having exactly the same IQ

        But among black , the rules of the higher the revenue, the higher the children average Sat works !

        That’s the explanation .

        Bruno

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • The importance of regression towards the mean keeps being overstated on HBD forums.

        Furthermore, people don’t regress to their race’s mean, they regress to the man of their great-grandparents. (So proles will regress more to the mean than families that have been elite for generations.)

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • @Lion: Dude, no. Wrong. They regress to the mean of the biological family as a whole, weighted by distance. So the average of both parents will have a stronger effect than that of the parents’ siblings and parents, but it will all at some level correlate.

        That’s why marrying well, ideally to a high quality spouse from a high quality family, is so important. Someone genuinely smart from a trash family, is a worse bet than someone less smart from a family of stable, relatively high achievers.

        I don’t get the hostility here. A lot of the HBD types seem to use it as an excuse to look down on NAMs and women, but turn into rabid SJWs at the idea that the elites might average out smarter.

        Jesse

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • If two people from prole familes (average IQ 95) happen to be unusually smart for their family (IQ 120) and marry each other and have kids, their kids will regress to the prole mean.

        If two people from elite families (average IQ 125) happen to be slightly less smart than the average person in their elite family (IQ 120), their kids will actually regress upwards to that higher elite mean.

        The racial IQ is only relevant if you don’t have any specific information about their extended family and ancestors.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • But there’s no exact correlation between social class and IQ. Some families remain prole-y for generations not due to lack of intelligence but because the kids follow, career wise, in the footsteps of the parents. Marrying someone elite is no guarantee your kid will be smart.

        Anyway people tend to marry close to their own intelligence. I’m sure we all know of couples from mismatched socio economic backgrounds, but very few couples where one is profoundly intelligent and the other profoundly stupid.

        toomanymice

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • “I’m sure we all know of couples from mismatched socio economic backgrounds, but very few couples where one is profoundly intelligent and the other profoundly stupid.”

        I need to think about this.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • My Hispanic-Asian friend from law school had a white blonde wife who was dumb as a brick (but she was a nice girl). He was no genius, but he was smart enough to graduate from law school and pass the bar exam. They did get divorced.

        My Vietnamese co-worker in IT was married to a woman who worked at a nail salon and didn’t sound very smart at all. I have no idea how that turned out, and never met the wife.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Jesse wrote:
        “That’s why marrying well, ideally to a high quality spouse from a high quality family, is so important. Someone genuinely smart from a trash family, is a worse bet than someone less smart from a family of stable, relatively high achievers.”

        ___________________

        What do you mean by “trash family”?

        You mean families with things such as mental illness, addiction and criminality? If so, I suppose I would agree. But these things also turn up in so-called elite families. Including very rich families. Sometimes it seems a person has to have ruthless, psychotic tendancies to get very rich.

        Rosenmops

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Lion I ageee but I was answering in the context of why the rich black kids don’t do that well. Thanks to positive discrimination, black person without 4 grant parents being that different from the average black, who happens to get a great IQ, will do well. Marrying each other, the 8 grand parents will probable not average 100 (at most 95). And for the white people, the mean will probably be higher than 100 (say 120 if all are graduates) that the absolute difference is at least the same than the one I was talking about taking each race mean (you get here a difference of 25 points instead of 15 !).

        PS : probably, Obama African family side have quite high IQ given the fathers education and the brother (who is probably smarter than Barack). So there is probably out there black elite families in terms of intelligence …

        Bruno

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • lion, 3rd world types are different when it comes to marriage than westernized assortative mating. Do you know any 100% westernized men or women who married drastically dumber spouses, that weren’t veiled prostitution? ie fat old white dudes going to thailand (and those girls aren’t necessarily dumb)

        Personally I think the largest margin for comfortable conversation/ interaction is half a standard deviation MAX a full deviation. Beyond that point it gets cringey and impossible to live with on a day to day basis..

        toomanymice

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • The Hispanic Asian guy was born in the United States, and he is very American (in a prole sort of way).

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Look at End Realist some time: black and Hispanic students get more test prep than whites.

      Jesse

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • On average, children whose parents make more than $200,000 a year score about 250 points higher on the SAT than children whose parents make $40,000 to $60,000.

      Also, the demographics of the children whose parents make more than $200K per year are different from the children whose parents make $40K – $60K per year. If you know what I mean.

      Some of My Best Friends ae Black

      August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  7. Fixating on a handful of top universities means ignoring the exponentially greater number of ones whose graduates are found all throughout the economy and keep it running.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

  8. “There should be another alternative of career training in the higher occupations of medicine and engineering, similar to the run in the mill job training schools made out for NAMs and proles who pursue lower order occupations.”

    Absolutely.

    School takes too long (high-school and college) and most professionals will tell you they didn’t learn shit in school except for some basic concepts which they coulda learned in one year instead of four. The whole thing needs to be streamlined to stop wasting young people’s valuable time and help them keep their eye on the ball.

    fakeemail

    August 21, 2019 at EDT am

    • School doesn’t take too long, at least not at secondary level. The whole point was to keep minors out of the workforce so employers would be forced to hire adults. And there’s a social function in keeping the less functional away from normal society for a few blessed hours.

      Jesse

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

  9. Lion you are right that the Atlantic has false information. The biggest lie is “Legacy preferences, nepotism, and outright fraud continue to give rich applicants corrupt advantages.”

    This is not the big advantage of the rich. The big advantage of the rich is that they are paying customers and it is a business. Every airline, sports team and hotel gives better service to those who pay more. Those stupid celebrity parents shouldn’t have given all that money to some shady middleman, they should have just gifted it to the university. Instead of being in prison, they would have a plaque on a bench in the quad and a kid at the school.

    There is a two – tiered system, because elite schools have the following two goals:
    (1) Enroll people who can pay full price and subsidize others
    (2) Enroll enough non-asian minorities to be ‘diverse’

    Therefore, if you are white and rich, you are desirable because you can enrich the school and subsidize (2). Consider that the total tuition, room and board maybe $70,000 but the real cost is considerably less and you would be supporting others.

    If you are black or Hispanic and score well, you are sought after, obv., because diversity.

    If you are white and Asian but need a lot of financial aid, you are not desirable. You are using precious resources of the school and not helping at all with visible diversity.

    Poor whites and poor Asians are the losers in the college game.

    Dan

    August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • Those stupid celebrity parents shouldn’t have given all that money to some shady middleman, they should have just gifted it to the university.

      They aren’t rich enough to make a gift that counts. The >1% <0.1% crowd are stuck in the middle. The children of rich celebrities often aren’t even that bright.

      Peter Akuleyev

      August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

      • ^^^ So true. To slide a bribe above the table, less than a million dollars isn’t going to cut it for a top school. Donate fifty million for a building named after you, and the school with give a diploma to your retarded dog.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I would imagine in the case of an extremely stupid legacy whose parents donated 50 million (too stupid to actually pass any classes at the school, even with extra private tutoring), there would probably be a private discussion with the president of the college.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Yes. The president of the college would be told to get his shit in gear.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

  10. ““Leadership potential” more often than not just means kids who did the right things because they come from a wealthy background where the right things to do are well known. ”

    No, it means coming from a NAM background and staying out of trouble.

    “Meanwhile, clueless Asian immigrant parents of modest means are duped into thinking that all their kids have to do is study and get good grades and test scores and they will be rewarded for that, but it doesn’t happen.”

    Get out of the house more, Lion. The Asian parents are well aware of the game and play it brilliantly, even the poorer ones.

    gothamette

    August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “The Asian parents are well aware of the game and play it brilliantly, even the poorer ones.”

      This is true. They’re tightly networked and pass that information among themselves. If anything they’re at an advantage.

      destructure

      August 22, 2019 at EDT am

  11. “Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, and Yale collectively enroll more students from households in the top 1 percent of the income distribution than from households in the bottom 60 percent”

    The idea of integrating inner city NAMs with upper class WASPs of multi-generational wealth just doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t, and it doesn’t bode well for poor people who want to feel a sense of adequacy, not of envy or resentment.

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • The blacks going to Harvard with upper class wasps are not from the inner city. Look at Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle. The are not ghetto, not at all.

      not too late

      August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  12. LOTB tries to muddy the water by explaining everything with IQ. In reality it all comes down to nepotism. Legacies are increasing percentage of admitted to all but one or two schools. Legacy admission is becoming widely used by graduate, law, and medical schools. A high percentage of internships are reserved for legacies too. The overall result is in the lost competitiveness, as witnessed by falling real income and increase in death rate.

    My 2¢

    August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “LOTB tries to muddy the water by explaining everything with IQ. In reality it all comes down to nepotism.”

      I think Lion talks about nepotism quite a lot. You & I must be reading two different Lions.

      gothamette

      August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

    • This is funny. I think if anything Lion might slightly over-emphasize nepotism.

      GondwanaMan

      August 23, 2019 at EDT am

  13. I have been told, and I believe it, that Asians contribute less as alumni than whites. Schools are businesses, as pointed out above. In addition to paying a higher tuition, rich white kids are far more likely to contribute as alumni; if they strike it rich, they will contribute whole buildings.

    Rich white graduates who were on sports teams will often contribute enormous amounts to athletic programs at their schools, which in turn helps bring in more alumni money (college football is a HUGE moneymaker, especially in the South). Ivy League schools also give athletic scholarships. Asians are too unathletic to apply for any of them.

    For the non-athletes, there’s the whole networking, good-old-boy thing, which, again, leads to big alumni contributions.

    Asians aren’t into alumni networking (which is glorified partying), or athletics. The schools know that without these factors, their alumni donations will be pitiful.

    Amused Observer

    August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • If Asians donated a lot of money, that wouldn’t change anything. They would just be accused of buying their way in.

      Bottom line is that people are uncomfortable with large numbers of people that look different from them. Even if people don’t look different but are just perceived as being different, other people will be uncomfortable and hostile. Jews are white, have the highest IQs, and are into higher education, but you still see some anti-Semitic right-wingers come up with different theories about how Jews are somehow manipulating their way into top universities and keeping white proles out.

      Tom

      August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

  14. Don’t knock leadership potential. I’ve met people who aren’t all that academic, but who I’d follow to hell and back. (And this is in the context of private schools and working in banks, so they’re most likely not actively stupid.) Getting them on board, and buttering them up with connections, is solid business sense.

    Jesse

    August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “I’ve met people who aren’t all that academic, but who I’d follow to hell and back.”

      That’s the excuse the Manson gang’s followers’ lawyers offered.

      gothamette

      August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I didn’t understand that from his comment. Rather, leadership ability is just a talent like any other talent, some people just have it. They can organize and manage people and assets. It is reasonable and wise for businesses, including colleges, to seek to recruit at least some students who have talent on the area of leadership even if their academic ability or interest is lower than the very most academically talented.

        not too late

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  15. By the way, Robert Stark’s piece on positional goods in a post scarcity world is indeed the main driver of nearly all the issues being discussed on your blog in regards to Meriprolestan. Yes, you can make a case that mass immigration leads to the creation of expensive positional goods. More riff-raff spilling into the land, creates a strong demand for a limited supply of desirable neighborhoods, prestigious schools, desirable make work and etc etc…

    Why is the Anglosphere riddled with ugly architecture? Perhaps Anglos have terrible tastes when comparing to other Europeans. But for now, the hideous architecture that is ubiquitous in Meriprolestan creates a market for aesthetic pleasing neighborhoods with nice buildings and nice streets that command an exorbitant amount of money, in which only upper middle class SWPLs can afford as the baseline.

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    August 21, 2019 at EDT pm

    • It’s bad taste, and priorities. There’s a Maslow’s pyramid going on with housing and cars. The first thing people want in hosing is square feet. That’s at the bottom of the pyramid. A tasteful looking exterior is up way higher. My house is 6,000 square feet with 3 full baths and hot tub. It’s also ugly. There are no beautiful houses near where I live that cost less than mine.

      If I look at the least expensive nearby houses with front gates and card readers (which all cost more than twice what mine does), they’re under 6,000 square feet of floor space, but are way better looking because the builders hired an expensive architect, and built on a bigger lot.

      The same logic applies to cars. I used to want a standard shift car with a tach, air conditioning, all the safety features, and nothing else. Impossible to get. With the exception of two door sports cars, the manufacturers would only put the tach on a car ‘upgraded’ to have an automatic transmission. This is kind of crazy because the only purpose of a tachometer is to tell you when to shift your manual transmission.

      Personally I like manual hand crank windows. They weigh less, cost less to make, are more inherently reliable, and cost less to fix if they ever do break. Everybody else buying a car wanted automatic windows. Not everyone wanted ABS brakes. Up until 2013 more new cars had automatic windows than ABS brakes. In 2013, the Federal government finally mandated ABS brakes for all new cars. Now basically all new cars have ABS and automatic windows.

      Because automatic windows were lower down on the Maslow pyramid than ABS brakes, you simply couldn’t find a car with ABS brakes and manual windows.

      MoreSigmasThanYou

      August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Robert Stark also discusses desirable suburbs and undesirable suburbs from a California context, based on his hometown of Santa Barbara, which I don’t comprehend and Lion doesn’t really either.

        Now, Southern California, and most certainly Santa Barbara, are lined with a few village town areas that remind you of Andalusia in Southern Spain. There are these long strips of “street car” downtown areas in places like San Diego that also look nice, because they are in the style of “Spanish”, which are found throughout the regions of the Southern United States that are were once part of Mexico or in the state of Florida. Go further north to San Francisco and its neighbors in the Bay Area and its a different scenery altogether, where strong Anglo elements are found, and the architecture in the Anglo domains are not particularly attractive. Now, head over to the East Coast, and our suburbs and homes are strictly Anglo, especially those taken up by proles, which are just downright atrocious in comparison.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • JS: The Deep South doesn’t have a lot of Mediterranean architecture but is still much more attractive than the northern east coast. The reason the Northeast (and other areas of the country outside of the South) looks like shit is that a majority of the homes are built with wood, which quickly degrades and starts looking bad. Add to that the fact that most of these houses are kept on life support decades after they should have been torn down. The result of all this is a country that looks run-down, ugly and poor.

        Stealth

        August 23, 2019 at EDT am

      • Stealth,

        Not really. England has a bunch wood frame houses built between 1485 and 1603, and kept on life support for centuries after they should have been torn down. They all look great from the outside, even when they really are falling down. It’s the buildings created between 1950 and 1984 which are the most hideous.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Everybody else buying a car wanted automatic windows. Not everyone wanted ABS brakes. Up until 2013 more new cars had automatic windows than ABS brakes. In 2013, the Federal government finally mandated ABS brakes for all new cars. Now basically all new cars have ABS and automatic windows.

        Yes, I prefer manual crank windows.

        The ABS module went out in my ’09 Honda. The dealer wanted $1600 to install a new one. I bought a used one on ebay for $60 and the dealer installed it for $100.

        E. Rekshun

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Automatic windows were important when you had to pay tolls, but now with EZ Pass you no longer need them.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • To More sigma than you:

        I agree that very ugly houses were built srarting around 1950 and they became less ugly in the 80’s However recently they have returned to building very ugly houses—at least in my town. Some of the recently built condos look as though they are made by randomly stacking together shipping containers.

        For example:
        Ugly new condo
        https://www.newvictoriahomes.com/property-details/413695

        Nicer house from a few years ago
        http://bestwaytobuyandsellahome.com/mylistings.html/listing.366326-2187-spirit-ridge-drive-victoria-v9b-0b5.58009443

        Ugly new house/condo
        https://www.zolo.ca/langford-real-estate/698-sunshine-terrace

        (These houses are not in my town)

        Rosenmops

        August 25, 2019 at EDT am

    • “Why is the Anglosphere riddled with ugly architecture?”
      ————-

      Ugly architechture is hardly confined to the Anglosphere!

      https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/kunsthaus-graz

      Rosenmops

      August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I think he’s referring mostly to the shabby, poor looking eyesores that many Americans call home. He’s correct about that, but not in his assertion that it’s an “Anglo” problem. Australia is definitely an Anglo-sphere country, but their housing stock is far more attractive.

        Stealth

        August 23, 2019 at EDT am

      • I looked at a random street in Australia using Google Maps, and the houses don’t look like anything special, or any different than the U.S.

        https://goo.gl/maps/TwonvxH4yEt2K3bY8

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 23, 2019 at EDT am

  16. “Fascism was born to inspire a faith not of the Right (which at bottom aspires to conserve everything, even injustice) or of the Left (which at bottom aspires to destroy everything, even goodness), but a collective, integral, national faith.”– Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera

    Only a fascist dictatorship can save this poor country. Once the summer season is over, I’ll explain a few things to you, mates. Too busy now.

    Yakov

    August 22, 2019 at EDT am

    • How can a fascist dictatorship make America better in NYC? I was in a doctor’s office this morning to see an Orthodox Jewish physician. His assistants and a lot of the patients come from the NAM neighborhood.

      How will this change next time, if a dictatorship comes to light?

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • The only change I can foresee is that you maybe in prison. What is the problem with NAMs getting good Jewish medical care?

        Yakov

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Giuliani had some definite fascist tendencies. Hard to argue that the city wasn’t at its best under him… Unless of course you want also argue that bums urinating in the streets and bathing in the Penn Station restroom sinks makes the city more “vibrant”.

        Right now the mayor wants to give free healthcare to illegals. Not hard to see how your daily interactions would be different.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

  17. What could be expected? Anything different? Wasnt Harvard invented to train the wasp elited of the northeast?

    If poorer people attended Harvard, then I would be surprised.

    Brazilian

    August 22, 2019 at EDT am

    • “Wasnt Harvard invented to train the wasp elited of the northeast?”

      Harvard was founded to educate Puritan ministers.

      destructure

      August 22, 2019 at EDT am

  18. OT, late response to the post about the NY Times 1619 thing. (No one reads old posts.)

    Let’s all chill.

    This is such a stupid, counterproductive thing for the Times to do. One of its stated objective is to put “the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story* we tell ourselves we tell ourselves about who we are.”

    OK.

    This will simply reinforce in everyone’s minds that blacks are descended from slaves, and retain that taint. No overcoming, no leaving it behind, if the past is prologue then, effectively, they are slaves. Maybe they don’t mean it that way, but it is that way.

    I think basically libs have given up integrating blacks into the social order, and they are creating a separate space for blacks in the American “story.”

    —————–
    *That whole “story” thing is so Ken Burns it makes me want to puke. Forty years ago they would have written “at the very center of American history,” implying that there is something factual going on. “The story we tell ourselves” is just that – a story. Made up.

    Man, we going down.

    gothamette

    August 22, 2019 at EDT am

    • For the left, it’s aways about the narrative.

      destructure

      August 22, 2019 at EDT am

      • Controlling the narrative.

        gothamette

        August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “One of its stated objective is to put “the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story* we tell ourselves we tell ourselves about who we are.”

      Are they prepared to tell the story of how 25% of the former slave population died during reconstruction because they couldn’t take care of their basic needs and the Union Army didn’t give a crap? Precisely, as the confederates predicted. Exactly which story does that constitute the center? America the hapless? That story?

      Curle

      August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

    • “I think basically libs have given up integrating blacks into the social order, and they are creating a separate space for blacks in the American “story.””

      That’s part of it, but I think the primary motive of “1619” is to make sure black votes don’t stray to Trump in 2020 by keeping them outraged. Stay tuned for the exciting Emmett Till segment in October of next year.

      Mike Street Station

      August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I think the Trump aspect is overrated. Of course they would love for him to lose but does anyone seriously think enough blacks in swing states will stray over to Trump?

        I think they are in a hysterical, Great Awakening mindset where they need to bring down the wrath of God on the evil-doers – white America, for the “original sin” of slavery.

        gothamette

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I don’t think that there are many Black votes that Trump can swing, but I’m not sure what the NYT thinks. Consider how differently “news” would be covered if Hillary had won? There would have been no Russia collusion story, and “white nationalism” would be phrase confined to the bowels of the internet; you wouldn’t be hearing it 24/7 on cable news and featured narratives that are all race, all the time.

        Mike Street Station

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  19. O/t – but related. Is America on the brink of a social implosion?

    This guy is like the Jeffrey Epstein of Yale University.

    He assaulted a few undergraduate students when they were in a research facility in St. Kitts Island in the 1990s. So far, we know of 2 boys have come forth. Don’t know the sexual orientation of the other students.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-yale-professor-sexually-assaulted-five-students-report-says/ar-AAG952l?fullscreen=true#image=1

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    August 22, 2019 at EDT am

  20. “Leadership potential” more often than not just means kids who did the right things because they come from a wealthy background where the right things to do are well known. And then to guarantee that their kids do the right things, rich parents can hire the best college admissions consultants.

    That ain’t leadership potential; it’s the willingness to do whatever it takes to please someone so they’ll do something for you, and people-pleasers aren’t leaders. As a matter of fact, I think one of our principal problems these days is that our entire elite class consists mostly of people who yield to anyone willing to actually put up a fight, and if they’re faced with choosing sides, they’ll go with whoever they think is going to win, which is why “White America” is losing the unannounced but very real racial conflict that started in the mid-Twentieth Century.

    Case in point: corporations are supposed to be these all-powerful entities that crush everyone underfoot, except for the fact that they fold every time someone complains about racism, xenophobia, white supremacy, etc. Does that sound like dominance? Elite behavior?

    Stealth

    August 22, 2019 at EDT pm

  21. Andrew Yang’s guaranteed income of $1K per month wouldn’t even gain traction if people weren’t so obsessed with getting a college degree.

    A degree is damned expensive – I don’t have to tell anyone here that. It turns us all into performing fleas, trained seals, what have you.

    If we could only break the Higher Education Industrial Complex, I’m positive it would release tremendous amounts of potential & creativity.

    Think of it: any industry in which a college degree is a non-issue is creative. Silicon Valley, rock music, rap music, anime, etc. (I hate rap, but it’s creative.) Any industry that requires a college degree is a stultified mass of caked shit.

    gothamette

    August 23, 2019 at EDT am

    • I’ve pointed out before that musicians are often uneducated, but the opposite is usually true for actors and actresses: https://www.ranker.com/list/celebrities-who-went-to-ivy-league-schools/celebrity-lists

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      August 23, 2019 at EDT am

      • Doesn’t seem that way, given the tabloids of our American actors and their destructive lifestyles.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        August 23, 2019 at EDT am

      • That’s changed in the last 20 or so years.

        The late great William Goldman pointed out that actors were usually uneducated, even those few who come from upper class families. (Most actors are prole slime.)

        Jane Fonda was a Vassar dropout, I don’t think her lazy bro Peter ever bothered to attend college, altho their mom was a genuine socialite.

        Bruce Dern dropped out of Penn. He was also upper crust.

        What’s changed?

        gothamette

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • Getting into acting is heavily based on who you know, so nepotism is a really big factor.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

      • I think it’s a wash. Rumer Willis went nowhere because she’s really ugly. Jane Fonda went somewhere because she used to be lovely.

        Certainly contacts are important but if you aren’t cast-able, you won’t work.

        Acting is mostly a matter of looking the part. Conventional good looks help but they aren’t the whole story.

        I believe the examples you cited didn’t know anyone in the industry.

        gothamette

        August 23, 2019 at EDT pm

  22. I wonder if Markovits is not just a south east Europe variety of Markovitz ?

    Just saw the biography of Kingman Brewster, who allegedly started meritocracy at Yale, and he really was someone who hated Wasp and wanted to destroy white people while living the good life (and finishing as a London ambassador and Oxford Master) after destroying Rhodesian whites

    https://www.encyclopedia.com/people/social-sciences-and-law/education-biographies/kingman-brewster-jr

    Bruno

    August 26, 2019 at EDT am


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