Will work-from-home kill New York City?
Some optimists say that 9/11 didn’t kill New York City, why should the virus pandemic?
But the pandemic feels different to me in two major ways.
(1) As bad as 9/11 was, the pandemic has had a much bigger impact, and the impact is not just on New York City but the entire world. I lived in Arlington, Virginia at the time, which is where one of the planes crashed, and 9/11 had no impact on my life at all, except that I got hired for a job that was a direct result of 9/11 (increased money for hiring contractors to work at federal agencies involved I homeland security). But the pandemic has changed everyone’s lives. Nearly all white-collar workers in the entire world are now working from home.
(2) Never before in the history of mankind has the technology been as good as it is today for doing so many jobs from home. Nearly all of the remote collaboration tools I use daily didn’t exist back in 2001. Today there wasn’t a good reason for people to go to the office except for inertia. Meaning that’s the way it was always done, and certain managers saw no reason to change it because they liked managing people in person. But now it has been changed.
I think that, for health reasons, no one is going to be required to go into the office for at least another year, and by the time it’s safe (because the virus is totally gone, probably because of vaccines), everyone will be used to working from home, and renting expensive office space will seem like a waste of money to corporate CEOs.
So my bet is on New York City going into a vicious-circle type of downward spiral.
Lion of the Blogosphere 
Working from home was already a thing. This just accelerated it 5 years. Companies will reduce their footprint for sure. Some commercial real estate might go residential. There is too much of a demand for the rich and successful to live next to each other and not have a lawn. New York rents could go down, which would be good.
Cow Of 2020
May 13, 2020 at 10:33 AM
Yeah, I think “accelerated by 5 years” is about right, not just for this, but for the effect on retail real estate as well. My town had a mall that was already struggling but might have lasted another 5-10 years; I believe it’s dead now.
WFH will remain a trend, but it won’t take over the world. It seems to me it’s basically impossible to build more office space profitably in NYC anyway. I don’t know what the exact economics of the Freedom Tower look like, but I know that the Port Authority is listed as the developer.
So NYC’s relative importance has to shrink as the US population grows. WFH is just another tool, but I know firms like Goldman have been moving people to Utah for years.
Wency
May 13, 2020 at 11:43 AM
I am currently in the middle of a meeting zoom meeting right now. And I am high. WFH is great!
Cow Of 2020
May 13, 2020 at 4:17 PM
I saw a story about, I think it was London or Paris. They’re going to restrict auto traffic and encourage biking. With people working from home it will cut traffic.
It might be odd to go in so rarely that you wouldn’t meet new employees. Mind you, the apps are pretty good. Our church is using Zoom.
Frau Katze
May 13, 2020 at 4:42 PM
I had a Zoom meeting with a new employee yesterday, it worked out fine.
Lion of the Blogosphere
May 14, 2020 at 8:43 AM
I think there were a lot of execs who were afraid to make this choice because they were risking their careers if it turned out badly. Now that it isn’t turning out badly for most businesses, they are looking at making it permanent. The head of HR where I work has gone from a “nobody should work from home ever” policy to “we should make as many people permanently WFH as possible.” I actually think that one of the reasons is that people are much more productive when they don’t spent 2-3 hours a day committing.
Chris IV
May 16, 2020 at 11:37 AM
Commuting more than 2 hours per day is miserable.
Lion of the Blogosphere
May 16, 2020 at 12:26 PM
Not unless you have a non-sedentary job that is fun and not too laborious. I’ve known city folks who commuted daily to the Hudson Valley either in Orange or Dutchess county to work in a brewery. Granted, that working in a drinking hole is usually a job that doesn’t require you to be an early bird.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 16, 2020 at 1:34 PM
Beginning in early March, my employer, for the first time ever (reluctantly) allowed WFH. Less than 10% of the work force took part in WFH. On May 1st, all telecommuters (except for very few favored employees) were instructed to return to work. All telecommuters were female. There was a bit of jealousy and negative whispered-comments by those left behind about the WFH’rs. Management mostly does not trust their subordinates and was not supportive of WFH.
E. Rekshun
May 13, 2020 at 11:00 AM
The only great thing about working from home (WTF – Work Telecommuting Forever), is avoiding the office drama and bad characters that are so ubiquitous in Murkaprolestan’s work settings.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 13, 2020 at 2:19 PM
Never noticed drama with computer programmers. Mostly men, many a bit spergy. No drama with them.
Frau Katze
May 13, 2020 at 4:44 PM
During the pre-pandemic times, any job that is non-value transference and mostly male-centric is seen as lower in Murkaprolestan’s hierarchy of careers.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 1:52 PM
employees will drive return to office but perhaps not at levels we see today. status competition is the main reason we congregate – it will become, “i’m important enough to be here.”
flex work is effective in cases where people have high trust and experience. that trust is not usually built remotely, although I suppose it could.
And over long haul, remote work can really degrade into a free for all. Remember what Marissa mayer did with remote work when she became CEO at Yahoo – shut it down. And that was a silicon valley company run by an ex-google exec.
ron
May 13, 2020 at 11:07 AM
And has Yahoo prospered since she shut it down? NO.
Lion of the Blogosphere
May 13, 2020 at 11:14 AM
Yahoo was/is a dead/dying company and she sold it to Verizon, where it will really die quietly. I think the point being that aggressive people and companies tend not to be big proponents of work from home environments.
I expect current mania will be temporary, although will be more acceptable in the future.
part of moving up in the world is being willing to put more on the line than someone else.
as long as there is human ambition, people will sacrifice – commute – to prove a point. Working in the main corporate office is key.
ron
May 13, 2020 at 1:44 PM
This pandemic reveals the glut n smut of BS businesses. Furthermore, essential workers are the only workers that matter in a functioning society. The rest are useless which center around hedonism. For example, the dining and drinking establishment – How many f*cking restaurants and bars do we need in a city?
When it comes to technology, all we need are technicians who maintain and run servers in order a blog content like this runs without issues. The rest is history. How many corporate big wigs do we need to dictate what content belongs on the internet?
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 13, 2020 at 4:26 PM
I have worked from home for a long time (before the current pandemic). You do lose things when you WFH. Specifically:
(1) It’s a bit easier to collaborate in person. Whiteboards and papers are faster than virtual tools, and of course those tools sometimes stop working.
(2) There are all sorts of unintentional conversations when everyone is together in the same place (I’ve seen them called “water cooler meetings”). That goes way down online.
(3) You lose some nuance when you communicate without seeing each other’s faces. That is less of an issue with easy videoconferencing.
(4) You lose some group bonding.
(5) Working with people in other companies is harder. You may not use the same programs, & sharing data across companies may raise security issues. (This is more for sales pitches or other infrequent meetings.)
None of this is worth using the office during a pandemic, of course. However, a CEO may well feel that once this is all over the gains are worth the money (look at Marissa Meyer & Yahoo in 2013 or so). They may also want the prestige of a particular office location, or think an office looks good to clients & whatnot.
Personally, I think the bigger issue with the return to the office will be workers. Until this is 100% beat, people won’t want to spend a long time crammed into public transit.
Deadlocked
May 13, 2020 at 11:41 AM
As someone noted above, interacting with other companies would be more of a management thing. I worked for the provincial government. They would hire contractors. But the computer programmers from the company and the government would work with each other, sometimes on site, often for a long time. You could work from home with them.
But a manager would decide who to hire. He might have to be there in person (management never appealed to me, it looked to be very boring. The actual programming work required a certain type of skill and it wasn’t boring.
Frau Katze
May 13, 2020 at 4:56 PM
Lion has good points, but for the really ambitious (e.g. finance, consulting, etc.) the office is the place to be once Covid cools down. The WFH types pre-Covid were women (moms), older drone workers, travelling sales folks, etc. The main leadership was in the office most of the time and this will continue post-Covid as working face-to-face with the big guys is really important long term. That said, companies will realize they can have a lot of drone workers work from home to cut down on real estate costs, boost overall morale, seem progressive (new moms can work from home), pay employees less, etc.
Remember Silicon Valley has been talking about working from anywhere for years, but tons of start-ups all find it necessary to have their offices a few miles from Sand Hill road for a reason. Good to be near the money!
For NYC, this Covid crisis will have a major negative impact for years and years. Commercial/residential real estate should decline (from absurd heights admittedly so this hurts the rich most), crime will rise for sure this decade (maybe not full Taxi Driver/1970s style but most people in NYC take it for granted that they are safe, most of the time–which wasn’t the case not so long ago + a Giuliani/Bloomberg get tough on crime type won’t be elected again for decades), NYC tourism will be off for years, the Arts (and Arts funding) in general will be screwed for years (but cheaper rents should help artists a bit), immigration will continue (NYC will always be preferable to Lagos and Karachi and Moscow–the world rich elites have to park their money somewhere), etc. This, overall, is bad but not super bad for NYC in the long run.
Sam Lowry
May 14, 2020 at 9:30 AM
Good points about the drawbacks for working from home. It more than likely will throw you off the advancement track. And of course, supervisors and management don’t really like it. Companies that own, rather than lease their own office space are not going to be able to justify keeping those expensive spaces empty.
I do think work-at-home will continue to advance, but it’s not going to be any big revolution as a result of this pandemic.
Mike Street Station
May 16, 2020 at 9:51 AM
For WFH to become widespread and permanent companies would have to make it mandatory for selected groups of workers. So long as it remains optional bosses will refuse to relinquish the sort of close control possible only with people physically in the office and employees will worry that they’ll be more expendable than those in the office. All the last couple of months have shown is that WFH is an effective way of getting work done. They have proven nothing about boss/employee acceptance because WFH has been mandatory and temporary.
Peter
ironrailsironweights
May 13, 2020 at 11:55 AM
I don’t think WFH will become the norm, but it’s being “normalized” to a degree that there’s no going back. In my line of work, I see increased opportunity to apply to jobs based out of state. If you have experience working remotely, why wouldn’t potential employers seriously consider candidates from out of state (or in another city within the same state), especially if they are an extremely good fit?
To Lion’s point, if the above happens, we may see a large uptick in people living in more rural areas (with good internet) while working “big city” jobs. NYC may lose a big part of its appeal.
Speaking of which….imagine someone working in the arts! Any type of performer, be it actor or musician or whatever is in for at a full year of no income. And NYC is a media/arts hub. I know people talk about streamed concerts and plays, but it simply doesn’t have the same impact. Live entertainment and all of its associated service industries, are in for hard times, at least until there’s a vaccine. And even then – things will only slowly return to normal, if ever.
SWPL2
May 13, 2020 at 11:55 AM
If WFH ever does get implemented on a large scale, employees are going to have to decide if they’re willing to accept (a) having the camera on their desktop or laptop enabled at all times during office hours, (b) keystroke tracking software on their computer, (c) having a location tracking app on their phone so their employer is able to monitor their whereabouts at all times, and (d) the possibility that monitoring will continue outside of working hours to check up on employees’ behaviors. This could range from enforcing company “wellness” programs to making sure that employees don’t engage in activities that could bring unwanted publicity to the employer.
Sgt. Joe Friday
May 13, 2020 at 12:09 PM
While none of these things are difficult to implement technology-wise, would this become the norm? Especially with harder-to-find skills and talents, it would seem dumb of employers to drive employees away with heavy-handed monitoring if they are doing a good job.
It’s not fair but my impression is that the extent employers monitor employees on the job is correlated with those employees’ fungibility.
Jokah Macpherson
May 13, 2020 at 4:51 PM
Correct, the better and higher-paying your job, the less monitoring you’re subject to.
Lion of the Blogosphere
May 14, 2020 at 8:44 AM
Usually essential work is scrutinized for a number of reasons, one being an important fact that in NYC, blacks make up a large contingent of our essential task force. HBD tells you that a society with black essential workers are below the median IQ required for such tasks. It’s also expected that Whole Foods which hires mostly blacks in Manhattan uses a different metric in managing their employees from a Whole Foods located in Arizona.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 10:39 AM
My employer’s IT department sends a monthly report to each director detailing web site traffic for each employee. I’ve spent countless work hours at my non-WFH job surfing the Internet for personal reasons (though never to any porn or controversial web site). My directors have never said anything.
E. Rekshun
May 14, 2020 at 11:24 AM
“If WFH ever does get implemented on a large scale, employees are going to have to decide if they’re willing to accept (a) having the camera on their desktop or laptop enabled at all times during office hours, (b) keystroke tracking software on their computer…”
Employees in office already have tracking software on their computers. That’s pretty much standard.
Mike Street Station
May 16, 2020 at 9:57 AM
“…no one is going to be required to go into the office for at least another year, and by the time it’s safe (because the virus is totally gone, probably because of vaccines), everyone will be used to working from home, and renting expensive office space will seem like a waste of money…”
Maybe working from home will become ever more popular. It seems plausible.
But “the virus is totally gone, probably because of vaccines“? I sure hope so, but a vaccine is not certain, so say the doctors and scientists. I’m not sure why, but I keep reading and hearing it.
And without a vaccine, the virus won’t be ever gone (except for some small areas, like maybe Taiwan, and even then there’d have to be strict rules about entering the area).
The hedging about a vaccine is scary, especially as more stories of lethality are coming out.
Or how hard it can be to shake off after recovery.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19
Frau Katze
May 13, 2020 at 12:19 PM
Young and wealthy people are attracted to cities because there are so many things to do. Was there a post here headlined, “Restaurants: The Real Life-Blood of Cities?” The long-term impact of the virus is how it affects leisure, not work. The biggest impact on work will continue to be globalization and automation.
People are talking about how “the world has changed,” but Americans just weren’t ready. I doubt if Seoul residents are extrapolating from the current pandemic the same way. We’ll just adapt. There have been pandemics before and yet people still crowd into cities — and pay dearly to attend concerts and sporting events.
Vince
May 13, 2020 at 12:30 PM
Lion,
I take your advice on this very seriously. I was looking to pick up some $ARI which has ~1/3 of their assets under management in Manhattan office spaces/hospitality (think hotels). But your instincts have me on pause. I was planning on making a bet that NYC has a “network effect” moat where people need to convene in office spaces and that demand won’t contract for the next decade. I don’t understand people moving to the Big Apple just to work out of an early 20th century tenement building (no offense). There is a lot of hedonistic cache with walking into a snazzy office with office chairs and board rooms which people do not regularly experience at home. And I know for a fact a lot of creative work (e.g. arts, media, tech) just cannot be done virtually, it’s a team game just like sports, where spontaneity is essential for productivity.
Lastly, I can see many of the commuters setting up shop in neighborhood coworking spaces, but those corporate executives slaved away just so they could enjoy their offices with a view. That assembly line isn’t disappearing anytime soon.
Thoughts?
A Dilettante
May 13, 2020 at 12:38 PM
Cachet.
Mrs Stitch
May 13, 2020 at 6:34 PM
I wonder which is more dangerous, for a healthy not-too-old person: living and working in NYC now, or back in the 80s and early 90s when crime was at its peak?
ack-acking
May 13, 2020 at 1:33 PM
Oh, for God’s sake, Lion, stop dreaming.
The intern there in the office gets hired. The worker there in the office gets promoted. The guy who isn’t there gets sacked. Why do you think tech workers are willing to pay $4,000 a month for a crappy 1BR in San Francisco?
I worked at a law firm which was forced to move. Instead of paying less for office space over two floors, the partners paid more to have the entire firm on one floor — so they could watch everyone.
The work-from-home trend will fade away as things get back to normal.
Justice Duvall
May 13, 2020 at 1:46 PM
My nephew is a radiologist in San Diego. It finally dawned on his employer that he can just as easily interpret x-rays at home, so that’s what he does. Adios, 90 minute commute.
Brendan
May 13, 2020 at 2:05 PM
Last I hard my radiologist cousin was still having to go to work, which surprised me. I don’t know if it’s because her specialty is mammography (wouldn’t see how that’d matter) or if she has responsibility for interacting with patients that the hospital doesn’t want done from home.
Jokah Macpherson
May 13, 2020 at 4:46 PM
Wait until it finally dawns on his employer that Dr. Suresh Patel can just as easily interpret X-rays at his home in India for half the cost of your nephew. Adios, job.
Hermes
May 13, 2020 at 5:31 PM
The hypothetical Indian doc would run into licensing issues. Plus, unlike lowly tech workers, docs would flood legislators with $ to make sure that can’t happen.
Brendan
May 14, 2020 at 1:26 PM
Yes
Daniel H
May 14, 2020 at 6:55 PM
Despite Lion’s characterization of doctors as the ultimate successful rent-seekers, we docs are a bunch of cucks. Docs haven’t flooded legislators with $ to make sure nurse practitioners can’t practice independently. Docs of yore may have been tough guild men, but today’s docs are a bunch of women, Indians, and pajama boys living off the dwindling social capital established by previous generations.
Hermes
May 14, 2020 at 9:21 PM
@Hermes, mostly true, although they have still been spending $$ to try to keep Physician Assistants from enjoying increasing levels of autonomy as well. They have failed for the most part, partially because of the constitutional make up of the current cadre of physicians (pj boys and the like) but also because they are, for the most part, employees/cogs in a system, rather than masters of their own domain.
As a PA, I make about half of what a family practice physician makes for a third of the cost of med school and a quarter of the time (2 year master’s program v. Med School + residency). The social prestige aspect is largely irrelevant these days. Only boomers and older actually respect anyone in the medical field. Most people argue less w their mechanic than their healthcare provider (MD/DO/PA/NP) thanks to Dr. Google and the Wikipedia School of Online Medicine…
Keyser Soze
May 15, 2020 at 6:23 PM
Doctors are still better protected than any other profession these days. They still have way more hoops and barriers to entry than lawyers, engineers, etc. And a medical degree is basically a bachelor’s degree (like it is in Europe and many other countries) with no math involved. That’s why there’s so many women doctors these days. Women tend to run away when they see lots of math in a curriculum.
Tom
May 16, 2020 at 12:44 PM
Why haven’t his employers hired Aditya?
Vince
May 13, 2020 at 5:43 PM
That’s hardly a typical office drone job, though.
Peter
ironrailsironweights
May 14, 2020 at 3:09 AM
The demise of SWPL urban parasites seems to be a better trend.
This pandemic puts a dent into the city’s parasitic charlatans and their lifestyles. It also shuts down the glut n smut that over-saturate and tax our resources.
Basically, a successful society runs solely on 4 essential things for people with sheltering in place, and they are good food, functional utilities and waste removal, and an a healthcare system in place.
Anyone who needs to policing, needs to be shot (as recommended by Yakov).
Let’s end the BS value transference careers, please, lord!
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 13, 2020 at 2:09 PM
I have been saying this for a long time. One used to go to the office to use the fax machine, the photocopier, to be near the physicial files, and to maybe make use of clerical support.
Today, I no longer print anything, I email instead of fax, I probably do not ever need a scanner. The files are in the cloud. The expense of commuting, the purchase of breakfast and lunch at work due to long commutes, and the socializing at work are all gone. Who is going to use Zoom or Webex to talk about the ball game.
I can read in quiet. I can answer emails easier. I can write without distraction.
The real problem is getting managers to adapt to not having physical contact with their subordinates. Also most managers and companies are horrible users of space. How many people are actually in the office each day. How many cubicles are never used.
superdestroyer
May 13, 2020 at 2:25 PM
It would at least be nice if offices could bring back cubicles and smaller rooms. This would definitely make offices safer.
AllenSheep
May 13, 2020 at 2:53 PM
Cubicles are gone? They were there when I retired in 2012.
Frau Katze
May 13, 2020 at 5:05 PM
There are still cubicles, but the trend in offices where millennials work is to not have them.
Lion of the Blogosphere
May 14, 2020 at 8:46 AM
I don’t know. I’m working from home now and goofing off. All kidding aside, if we work from home we need to benefit from buying stocks that will prosper… MSFT, Twillow, Docusign, Slack. You buying anything Lion? Irobot not doing too well lol.
uman
May 13, 2020 at 3:24 PM
In silicon valley you have had senior technical contributors working remotely for a long time. In some cases these remote locations are very far from any office. However, management was very familiar with these people’s work and trusted them.
It is very hard for me to see how young people would be brought in and trained to become productive when all the good technical people are working from home. New employees have to ask a lot of questions when they get started and they don’t know who to ask. Also it is very hard to figure out if they are picking things up or whether they need more help when they are working remotely.
I have had some experience trying to train off shore remote development groups and it is really hard to do it remotely. I remember having nightly calls to a remote group that was having some problem with an intermittent cash. I kept telling them on the phone that it sounds like an uninitialized memory problem or an out of bounds memory access and to run the program with Purify (a tool for detecting those kind of problems). It took four or five days for me to convince them to actually run purify which quickly found the problem.
It is going to take a new kinds of management skills to hire and train remote technical contributors. Most non-technical managers also just don’t trust WFH and would have no idea how to manage remotely.
MikeCA
May 13, 2020 at 3:32 PM
This is the sort of thing that makes management frustrating. You literally give a direct answer (run Purify) and rather than just doing it the employee has to think it over instead. I wish I could convince them that while it doesn’t apply in all domains (relations between the sexes), in the workplace, when people tell you what they want, that is a pretty good indicator it is what they actually want.
Jokah Macpherson
May 13, 2020 at 4:59 PM
Only experienced people could WFH. Since I retired, I did some coblogging as a volunteer. One blogger is in Australia and the other is in Toronto. I’m in Victoria, BC. The Australian one was awkward because the time difference shifted 4 times a year.
I had to know how to use the blogging program. But they’re pretty easy to learn. The Australian guy had his blog taken down by Google twice. He moved to Tumblr, and made his blog invisible to search. So it is like a private club. He now has an American woman moderating comments in the hours he’s not there.
I moved to the Canadian blog, it has a much bigger readership. But it was more work than my old job. There is no time off. Even on major holidays. Especially on holidays, since there are more readers then. But i burnt out after about two years and now I mostly do a nightly display of nature photos. It’s to take people’s minds off depressing news. Even it takes several hours a day. But it’s not depressing.
I still visit the Aussie blog.
So people can work across major divides.
Frau Katze
May 13, 2020 at 5:24 PM
True. Importing foreign labor already made a huge mess of the on-the-job-training that we used to have. Work from home would make the problem worse. In a perverse way, it makes senior technical people harder to replace.
As for work being a place where your boss really does tell you what he wants, that’s true, but a hard lesson to learn. My father owned businesses with dozens of employees. I had to hear the lesson from him before I believed it.
MoreSigmasThanYou
May 14, 2020 at 12:36 PM
Interesting theory. The numbers from GA, TX and FL are very promising. But none have urged office workers to go back yet.
Of course, with the stupid HIPA laws we wont really know where the cases are coming from for months longer than we should.
Paul Rise
May 13, 2020 at 4:18 PM
In many ways, video conferencing has made my job even easier since I would often have to shoulder surf on other people’s computers. There’s a few downsides but over all WFH is better from a standpoint of getting work done.
I did have my first mishap this morning, though, when I had just gotten out of the shower and took a Jabber call from a female co-worker in just my boxers. The phone call moved to video with no warning so she got to see me shirtless. Fortunately she found the whole thing hilarious so I’m not going to get fired or anything.
Jokah Macpherson
May 13, 2020 at 4:41 PM
“I did have my first mishap this morning, though, when I had just gotten out of the shower and took a Jabber call from a female co-worker in just my boxers. The phone call moved to video with no warning so she got to see me shirtless.”
Pity it wasn’t the other way around. With screenshots.
Peter
ironrailsironweights
May 14, 2020 at 8:02 PM
Keep some electrical tape over that camera lens. Good practice even if not regularly vid conferencing.
anon
May 17, 2020 at 12:49 AM
I am working from home for more than 10 years now but I still think there is value in meeting face to face. An ideal combination would be 2/3 days split home/office or vice versa. I find meeting other people does help pushing certain processes and issues forward and it is essential, after that you take it and work alone on the details.
I am also taking advantage of the low prices to move closer to the city cooler areas, not because of being close to the office but rather to be closer to entertainment, social life, the beach and all the other good stuff around, those are not going to go anywhere. It seems like here things are going back to normal, they reopen restaurants for sitting and allow certain amount of people gathering. Not sure why they even bothered with such harsh measures in the first place, it was all a stupid scare with no reason whatsoever.
Hashed
May 13, 2020 at 6:13 PM
If you are going to the office part time, then you end up in a hotelling situation where you do not have a desk and have to drag your computer with you all of the time. Why do that just to have a face to face meeting that you be easier using video?
I would say that people have to get better at using video such as being a better speak since you do not get body language, do not read anything verbatim, and slides used on video are different than in person slides.
superdestroyer
May 14, 2020 at 3:07 PM
In my case I got my desk in the office, but I hardly go there, I have worked before in a more shared environment and it was fine by me, I don’t care for my own desk. Having the ability to hang with people and meeting clients face to face helps a lot, yes, I can share a screen or do whatever in a video but the casual interactions without a need to initiate a call, just talking whenever you want and get immediate reaction, it helps a lot. Also on the personal level, it creates rapport and gives you a better bonding with people which helps in business. Just the option to get grab a beer for lunch, how do you do it in a video? Maybe it works for wage slaves but if you want to do any level of business, personal interaction is essential and that’s also true if you want to climb up the corporate level rather than just be locked in your cubicle.
Hashed
May 15, 2020 at 4:29 PM
Something is fucked in New York City.
New York City has one third of the CV deaths in the USA, and New York City has more CV deaths than all of the non USA countries in the top ten countries by population combined.
It’s not the Subway. Plenty of countries with far less deaths and cases also use subways.
I think it’s the government by buffoon. Cuomo is a buffoon with confidence, which is worse than a garden variety buffoon. For example, NYC hospitals killed a lot of people by putting them on ventilators… and while they were doing so and while the ventilator patients kept dying, Cuomo ordered that Upstate Ventilators be stolen and given to NYC.
Rotten
May 13, 2020 at 6:34 PM
There are wild discrepancies in death rates between countries and even states. This has been seen since early on (ie south korea vs italy). Sweden, which did not even lock down, has a death rate far smaller than NYS.
So either officials are lying up or down about numbers, some areas have better/ worse treatment, or some populations were more vulnerable on a massive scale for complications.
NYS’s death rate is 140 per 100,000 population. Sweden is about 35.
toomanymice
May 14, 2020 at 2:33 PM
Sweden is ~10% larger than California but with only 10 million people.
Vince
May 15, 2020 at 3:56 AM
“Something is fucked in New York City”
Adam Neumann of WeWork is the most f*cked up when it comes to Murkaprolestan capitalism. By far, he is the greatest value transference parasite to live in the 21st century and he makes the Wall St types losers in the game of value transference.
A guy who made baby jeans for toddlers get to own several homes within a decade and to see his net worth rise into the billions by producing nothing of significance (just office rentals so people can bring their laptops and chit chat at the expense of a Japanese bank). You know something is awfully wrong when you see a guy who becomes filthy rich without lifting a finger.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 11:13 PM
After regarding it as nothing but useless hipster twaddle I have gotten tremendous respect for WeWork. All their facilities at least in NYC have remained open, but many of the people who rent space are demanding refunds because they’re too afraid to venture into the city because they might catch This Disease Thing and will be Eating Dandelions by the Root. Never mind that as young hipsters of the Caucasian persuasion themselves, the tenants are at greater risk of being beaned by meteorites. WeWork’s response: take a long walk on a short pier (and quit your Panty Piddling Paranoia while you’re at it).
Peter
ironrailsironweights
May 16, 2020 at 1:21 AM
Yes, I think that’s right. Some companies already made the move for permanent remote positions. Twitter, for example: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/twitter-will-allow-employees-to-work-at-home-forever
Zack
May 13, 2020 at 7:03 PM
We’re going to have to abandon the “until there’s a vaccine” standard. There has never been a successful vaccine against any coronavirus.
Hermes
May 13, 2020 at 7:38 PM
Yes, I don’t believe one is coming. I was forwarded a document produced internally by a drug company outlining “reasons why a vaccine is unlikely”; it was the most honest and well-written paper I’d seen in a while.
S.J., Esquire
May 14, 2020 at 2:01 PM
What does Lion think this will do to Staten Island real estate prices?
MoreSigmasThanYou
May 13, 2020 at 8:17 PM
Staten Island has withstood all the trials n tribulations when its gadflies n grifters are of no relevance to the elite and wealthy value transference parasites who make their space in Manhattan.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 12:51 PM
You are never going to have generalized remote work.
Never.
WFH means that managers lose important metrics about worker productivity. The “home” is a black box outside of their measurement system, where it will be impossible to measure waste. If the only measurement is work-product on a deadline, then maybe that is the case for WFH, but most people’s work is not like that.
Then there is the security problem. All of your business communication is going through some third party that will have access to it. How do you guard against Amazon, Microsoft, Zoom and Cisco?
The relentless pursuit of worker productivity metrics means you won’t simply have cameras and key-loggers. You will have forensic software on your machines.
map
May 13, 2020 at 11:33 PM
This will have less of an impact on Manhattan than it will on its nearest suburbs. If you don’t have to commute to work everyday, and you can find a bigger house and “good” schools for less money 50 miles away than 10 miles away, why not?
Young people and rich people will still want to live in Manhattan after the virus dies down though: the rich, for its amenities; and the young, for the dating possibilities.
David Pinsen
May 14, 2020 at 3:30 AM
The rich aren’t always keen on amenities in Manhattan, but young ppl who want to be there are in it for the amenities and the mating game.
Scarsdale and Bronxville are two of the wealthiest suburbs in Westchester and their residents are way wealthier than any NAM or hipsteroo who resides in Manhattan.
https://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/28/new-york-towns-among-richest-places-america-report/4894617002/
A new status marker for city folks is to live in a home in the Hudson Valley in times like this.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 11:00 PM
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the problem of mass transit in NYC.
New York City simply cannot work without the subway and bus system.
NYC has the lowest rate of car ownership of any American city.
While I haven’t been on the subway in more than 40 years, [Thank you, God.]
I can’t imagine how the city will function without these mobile virus vectors.
I’m reasonably sure that one reason that NYC has gotten the worst of the virus in the US is because it’s so crowded and most people need to use mass transit just to get around.
Does any one really think that the subway and train system can be made a healthy, sanitary place to be because they now clean the cars every night?
Nedd Ludd
May 14, 2020 at 6:49 AM
The real reason for cleaning the trains each night is to kick off the homeless people. And kicking them off DOES make the trains more sanitary, but that won’t prevent viruses from spreading during the rush hour.
Lion of the Blogosphere
May 14, 2020 at 8:50 AM
No other major city in the world seems to be having a problem with public transport as a vector. Hong Kong is certainly more reliant than New York on public transport. So is Tokyo. European cities like Budapest, Vienna and Berlin don’t seem to be experiencing massive outbreaks either. Maybe New York’s subways are more poorly ventilated or people have longer commutes than in other cities. Maybe people talk too much in New York.
Peter Akuleyev
May 14, 2020 at 8:56 AM
NYC Mass transit use and car ownership
New York City is distinguished from other U.S. cities for its low personal automobile ownership and its significant use of public transportation. New York City has, by far, the highest rate of public transportation use of any American city, with 67.2% of workers commuting to work by this means in 2006.[6] About one in every three users of mass transit in the United States and two-thirds of the nation’s rail riders live in New York City or its suburbs.[7] However, New York City also has the longest mean travel time for commuters (39 minutes) among major U.S. cities.[6]
New York is the only city in the United States where over half of all households do not own a car (Manhattan’s non-ownership is even higher, around 75%; nationally, the rate is 8%).[8] However, absolute figures for car ownership are still high when compared to other cities: in 2019, 55% of households were not car owners, indicating that 45% of households did own a car.[9] …
3.7 million people were employed in New York City; Manhattan is the main employment center with 56% of all jobs.[19] Of those working in Manhattan, 30% commute from within Manhattan, while 17% come from Queens, 16% from Brooklyn, 8% from the Bronx, and 2.5% from Staten Island. Another 4.5% commute to Manhattan from Nassau County and 2% from Suffolk County on Long Island, while 4% commute from Westchester County. 5% commute from Bergen and Hudson counties in New Jersey.[19] Some commuters come from Fairfield County in Connecticut. Some New Yorkers reverse commute to the suburbs: 3% travel to Nassau County, 1.5% to Westchester County, 0.7% to Hudson County, 0.6% to Bergen County, 0.5% to Suffolk County, and smaller percentages to other places in the metropolitan area.[19]
On average, New Yorkers spend 1 hour and 27 minutes per weekday commuting with public transit. Of these, 31% ride for more than 2 hours every day. The average amount of time people wait at a stop or station for public transit is 15 minutes, but 23% of riders wait for an average of over 20 minutes. The average distance people usually ride in a single trip with public transit is 9.5 kilometres (5.9 mi).[20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_New_York_City
Nedd Ludd
May 14, 2020 at 9:43 AM
Do you assume that a long commute signifies a greater chance of exposure to more infected people?
In NYC, it’s mostly a problem for NAMs and lower status non-nams who live in the outer boroughs and commute into Manhattan for work.
Non-essential work is mostly a White thing in NYC. NAMs are usually the essential workers, low paid serfs for their SWPL masters. The same goes for Eastern Asiatics/Indus Valley Asiatics who are usually employed in the tech sector so that Kaitlin gets to access the internet in the Marketing Dept or Jon who is researching legal cases in his BIGLAW firm.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 10:06 AM
“Some New Yorkers reverse commute to the suburbs”
These past few months before the pandemic, I was able to reverse commute from Manhattan to the Catskills every other day. It was fun and exhausting, which allows me to sleep well at night.
Reverse commute might signify a higher status endeavor than a conventional commute. It would be a spectacular endeavor if I could commute daily from Montréal to the various areas of the Adirondacks in Upstate NY for any type of BS work.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 1:09 PM
Remember, one of the early super spreaders was the lawyer riding the train in from New Rochelle. It is more than just the subway. Also, New Yorkers live in fewer square feet than anyone else in the U.S. And minorities, including ASians, live in very dense situations in NC due to costs.
superdestroyer
May 14, 2020 at 3:10 PM
But the city is packed with cars.
Traffic is some of the worst in the country.
Who is doing all of this driving ?
map
May 14, 2020 at 10:27 PM
@Ned – “New York is the only city in the United States where over half of all households do not own a car” – this means that NYC is the only place in the USA where those who cannot drive cars are not second-class citizens. Is there any ethnic or religious minority treated as badly as non-drivers in the United States today? My tongue is half in cheek, but only half: I can’t think of another demographic that is ill-treated but *also* get no attention or sympathy from liberal types.
Kyo
May 15, 2020 at 9:36 AM
“Remember, one of the early super spreaders was the lawyer riding the train in from New Rochelle”
He was riding one of the Metro North rail lines that goes to Connecticut. New Rochelle is in Westchester, towards the Southern Connecticut border, and one of these rail lines stops at New Rochelle.
There are 4 Metro North Train lines that run into Connecticut. They are the red lines indicated on the map. It’s crazy how people live in Connecticut and they ride one of these rails to commute to NYC for work. It goes show you how Americans like to put up with sh!t just to earn a $.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 16, 2020 at 9:04 PM
And this is the Amtrak Empire Service Line that goes up to Montréal from Manhattan. You are literally going uptown, way uptown from NYC to the French speaking city. It shares the same tracks with the Metro North that runs along the Hudson River, but it only makes a final stop at Pough-NAM-keepsie, while the Amtrak bypasses it and makes its way up to Montréal.
Imagine if we had a bullet train like the Japanese that travels 300 mph, you could actually commute to NYC to/from Montréal in about 90 minutes or so.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 16, 2020 at 9:30 PM
Covid-19 antibody tests of transit workers in downstate New York showed that 14.2% tested positive, meaning they had had the virus at some point. Among the general population 19.9% were positive, meaning that transit workers were less likely to have gotten the virus than the general public.
Other positive test rates were health care workers 12.2%, NYPD 10.5%, FDNY/EMS 17.1%. Again, all less than the general rate.
Peter
ironrailsironweights
May 14, 2020 at 10:58 AM
The beauty of this pandemic outlines nicely all the discussions that are pertinent to this blog.
When I hear Cuomo speak about the inequalities in NYC, one of his advisers might be a reader of this blog. The same goes for De Blah see yoh. Given the fact that the word “Blacks” indicated on their info charts is written as “blacks”.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 12:32 PM
Another question worth asking:
Will young people still migrate to NYC?
That’s what keeps the upward pressure on rents.
Why not just move to Austin or Denver, etc?
These are youthful cities filled with young hipsters and waaay lower costs.
Besides jobs in Big Law, media, publishing, arts, etc.
NYC’s big draw for tourists was culture and entertainment.
That’s why the ‘bridge and tunnel crowd’ went there.
With Broadway closed. The museums closed. The clubs closed. The restaurants closed.
What’s the reason to go there?
People may like Broadway and museums, but I doubt they’ll risk their lives to see
a revival of the King and I.
Nedd Ludd
May 14, 2020 at 9:54 AM
Correct, urban parasites are a nuisance to the earth and taxing to its resources.
It’s time to take a Pause!
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 12:34 PM
London’s population kept growing even when it was a very unhealthy place to live.
MoreSigmasThanYou
May 14, 2020 at 3:20 PM
I don’t want to get too excited about this potential de-urbanization in case it doesn’t pan out.
Definitely it seems there are opposing forces: on the one hand, telecommunications and “work from home”, the threat of infection, man’s yearning for space, the growing survivalist / back to the land movement. On the other, the Globalist Agenda 21 plot to force us into cities.
Which will prevail?
S.J., Esquire
May 14, 2020 at 1:56 PM
You pretty much nailed it, or more specifically what motivates me right now. Now I wonder if this only applies to certain white people. I’ve never heard black people yearn for wide open spaces.
Lion has pointed out that prole and SWPL whites are united in their love for nature. A black TNS member pointed out to me that whites are a strange race of humans who fetishize nature, but are less well adapted to being outside than the darker races of humans. I’ve also observed that people who live in the outer Burroughs are often quite happy with and proud of where they live (as crazy as that may sound).
Mostly I wonder if where I live now will go up or down in value relative to hundred plus acre parcels of land in places I’d rather be.
MoreSigmasThanYou
May 15, 2020 at 1:28 PM
The Globalist Agenda 21 plot to force us into cities is an under-discussed issue, but you’re right, the technocratic elites definitely have an explicit philosophy that there is all kinds of social-sciences evidence (the “studies have shown” mentality) that rural living and suburbs are bad, and that it would be better for everyone if everyone lived in cities.
Hermes
May 16, 2020 at 11:49 PM
I think mega cities, such as NYC/London/Hong Kong/Sydney/Istanbul/Berlin, provide a lot of person-to-person proximity and population density that can facilitate easy access to private one to one meetings. Privacy and confidentiality matter in business deals. Video conferencing and e-mails can be monitored and hacked. Just ask Hillary Clinton. Also, e-mailing and video conferencing only allow so much information about another person to present itself. A lot of body language, tone inflection, and special recognition (screens are 2d) are missing from such communications. Personal meetings allow 2-4 people to interact in a human manner. Video conferencing does feel very artificial. Humans like humans. It’s kind of like watching porn rather than actually fucking her… Big difference. Mega cities also have long histories as centers of commerce, wealth, power, and human capitol concentrations. People flocked to them for this reason. The people who run the show at least have offices in these places even if they don’t reside in them full time. Without all that, mega cities lose a lot of their appeal. Now the benefits of mega cities are also a drawback. Now person-to-person proximity and population density act as virus spreading vectors. As long as this pandemic persists, I wouldn’t be surprised if rich people tend to meet elsewhere, like their cottages in Vermont.
I post on the internet
May 14, 2020 at 3:56 PM
Sydney and Australian cities in general are not very dense at all, more sprawled like LA, but what matters is where people of certain profession concentrate. The silicon valley is not dense in any global standard but still people flock to this area because of the concentration of professionals in a certain field.
Hashed
May 14, 2020 at 10:03 PM
Great points. Rogan says he hates LA and wants to move, but he has to be there for his show because the city has best concentration of guests. Even for a video podcast, teleconference doesn’t cut it. The people talking have to be face to face.
MoreSigmasThanYou
May 15, 2020 at 1:32 PM
Urban density is a factor as to why high infections take place more so than less dense areas. Looking at Orange County in NY’s Hudson Valley, this spooky looking map of a paywall article shows Covid-19 infections in all of its villages, cities and towns, the notorious gang banging city of Newburgh has the highest infections and following is the half decrepit city of Middleltown, both with large populations of NAMs, particularly blacks. Cities have higher infections rates and NAM oriented cities are indeed outbreak central.
https://www.recordonline.com/news/20200423/city-of-newburgh-middletown-hit-hardest-by-covid-19
Post-pandemic, NAMs who live in Newburgh and Middletown will be devastated and perhaps displaced, where White hipsters will descend like vultures to capitalize on the cheap real estate of these areas to build the next Williamsburg, Brooklyn or Portland, Oregonia.
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 16, 2020 at 3:07 PM
Looks like the New Orleans outbreak came from New York.
https://mobile.twitter.com/trvrb/status/1260281093304971264
I don’t mean to sound callous to New Yorkers, but no one wants you in their town. This just adds to the general assholishness that everyone has come to expect from New York emigres.
Joe
May 14, 2020 at 5:49 PM
There’s NYC, Downstate NY (north of NYC aka the Hudson Valley) and the Upstate NY proper. Not all regions of NYS are equal and the same.
When it comes to the Hudson Valley, the eastern areas tend to be wealthier (many suburbanites are wealthy, ex-city folk and the region is also less NAM induced, while the western area is more diverse in terms of demographics, albeit poorer than its eastern counterpart.
However, there are certain areas of the Western Hudson Valley that remind me of the Meseta in the central Iberian Peninsula of Spain, with its desert topography and earthy green plant life and mountains. Not surprisingly, the western side of the Hudson Valley is a major wine producer like the Napa Valley and the Mediterranean.
The western side of the Hudson Valley is wino paradise:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AOHY_enUS708US708&q=vineyards+hudson+valley&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=41490050,-73924025,43679&tbm=lcl&ved=2ahUKEwje8MLGx7TpAhWyknIEHQxYBIcQtgN6BAgLEAQ&tbs=lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!1m4!1u2!2m2!2m1!1e1!1m4!1u22!2m2!21m1!1e1!2m1!1e2!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:9&rldoc=1#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:%5B%5B43.091221999999995,-73.4668767%5D,%5B41.029838,-74.4927%5D%5D;tbs:lrf:!1m4!1u3!2m2!3m1!1e1!1m4!1u2!2m2!2m1!1e1!1m4!1u22!2m2!21m1!1e1!2m1!1e2!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:9
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 14, 2020 at 8:06 PM
Yes, I meant nyc. And l.a. too!
Joe
May 14, 2020 at 9:43 PM
Hahaha, are you serious!? Oh my God.
Lowe
May 16, 2020 at 8:52 PM
The western front of the Hudson Valley has a lot of vineyards and it is a major wine region in NYS. However, living there has all of its downsides with NAMs, proles, Chassidim and a lack of rail transit that connects directly to the city.
Me thinks that this part of the Hudson Valley rivals the number of vineyards around the Finger Lakes in the vicinity of Cornell University, which is also another “wino paradise”.
Western Hudson Valley:
https://www.google.com/maps/search/vineyards+hudson+valley/@42.0550744,-75.119277,8z/data=!3m1!4b1
The Finger Lakes:
https://www.google.com/maps/search/vineyards+finger+lakes/@42.6587821,-77.0900954,10z/data=!3m1!4b1
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 17, 2020 at 9:27 AM
This is another aspect to consider regarding whether NYC will be killed, as the city might be permanently stigmatized as a grimy contagion. Bad optics. Only time will tell. Maybe we’ll have proles in manhattan again like in pre 1980 movies.
toomanymice
May 15, 2020 at 12:23 PM
One thing not discussed here, or in the previous post [Why Covid-19 is disproportionately infecting and killing the poor,] is the importance of Vitamin D for a properly functioning immune system.
Many people north of the Mason Dixon line have Vitamin D deficiency, particularly in the winter months.
Vitamin D comes either from exposure to sunlight, or from supplements.
Darker skinned people have a harder time making Vitamin D from sunlight and need greater exposure, or supplements.
This may explain some of minorities greater susceptibility to severe cases of Covid-19 when combined with their other common comorbidities. [Obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.]
NYC, except along the Hudson in the afternoon and in Central Park is a hard place to get much exposure to the sun. The avenues are deeply shadowed by the tall buildings and even many of the crosstown streets don’t get much sunlight – Again blocked by the forest of buildings.
If you’re unaware of the importance of Vitamin D in supporting your immune system here are a few useful links:
Does Vitamin D Protect Against COVID-19?
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/930152
[Also: Make sure to checkout the many interesting comments on this article, many by MD’s – See samples below.]
Dr. Robert Baker| Internal Medicine
17 hours ago
I have tested over 12,000 patients for a vitamin D level since 2004. A number of patients told me when tested that they take 1000 or 2000 units a day of vitamin D. In spite of that almost all of those people come back with a result in the 20’s. Seldom over 30 ng.
Most adults need 5000 units a day to reach a level of 40 to 50 ng. Some actually need double that. The only way to tell for sure is to test at 6 months and yearly. It would be a waste to do a study that is only going to raise the level to high 20’s or 30’s.
Dr. ashok jagani| Infectious Diseases
20 hours ago
British Medical Councils recommends that all dark skinned people take vitamin D supplement throughout the year. However, it is not known whether blood levels of hydroxyvitmain D are checked from time to time or not by their family doctors?
It is fact that most of the deaths from Covid 19 deaths in England occurred in Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Indians . Dark skin is less efficient in making vitamin D even when it is exposed to sun regularly.
In general, physicians are asked to correct serum potassium, magnesium, vitamin b12, folate if low in patients of all backgrounds. Then why it should be different with Vitamin D? At least, it is safe and cheap.
Fay Louise Danel| Other Healthcare Provider
4 hours ago
@Dr. Taeho Kim @T. Braun Here are two articles that will help understand the different tissue necessities, and metabolites.
Vitamin D Inhibits Monocyte/macrophage Pro-inflammatory Cytokine Production by Targeting Mitogen-Activated Protein Kinase Phosphatase 1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3368346/
The Role of the Parent Compound Vitamin D with Respect to Metabolism and Function: Why Clinical Dose Intervals Can Affect Clinical Outcomes:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3849670/
Vitamin D levels appear to play role in COVID-19 mortality rates
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200507121353.htm
Vitamin D dose
Nedd Ludd
May 15, 2020 at 7:41 AM
Vitamin D is indeed shown to assist with resistance to respiratory infections. If you have bronchitis or COVID, it is worth a shot. Having some on hand is worth the effort.
Try the liquid drops, as its easier to control the dose. Implying that it may not be either necessary nor desirable to take doses that approach the daily maximium limit of 4-5k iu to realize the targeted effect. Liquid vitamin D can be dosed closer to 400 iu increments.
In addition to Vitamin D’s effectiveness for respiratory infections, what is also true is that the medical profession has been ludicrously promoting Vitamin D for at least a decade like a drunk carnival barker.
Most vitamins can have side effects, but this is espcially true for fat soluble vitamins like A and D. Side effects can be realized within that range of the daily recommended dose. The medical establishment’s reckless promotion of Vitamin D reads like such because it rarely if ever discusses possible side effects, how to counter them, or any other mitigating nuance within the vitamin D research.
One such side effect, which can occur toward the higher end of the maximum daily allowance range, is felt insulin resistance. The proper counter to which is the addition of (animal source, not vegetable source) vitamin A. But you wouldn’t want to take Vitamin A in perpetuity during this period because it has been shown to increase the risk of respiratory infection.
At the least, it is important to experience and know how vitamins A and D balance each other’s action so as to be able to mitigate side effects should they occur. Second, it would be obviously important to know that vitamin A also has potential side effects and what they are.
In short, (fat soluble) vitamin supplementation is not as easy nor simple as its made out to be. Most medical advice that promotes it fails to note that, and therefore fails.
What is also true is that the medical profession is not clear on the effects of long term supplementation on any of this, even if they skew data or its interpretation to give the impression that they are.
I knew a non-smoking man who took Vitamin D for decades and died of lung cancer. Vitamin D also being shown in the research to prevent lung cancer.
There is a lot of shaky research out there. or shaky interpretations of it, that is promoted as gospel.
Which means that taking any of these supplements every day over a long period of time is essentially akin to guided self experimentation.
Mills
May 16, 2020 at 9:23 AM
NYC exists in the first place because it has a superb harbor, and in the second place because it is the gateway to the heart of North America via the Hudson, Mohawk, and Great Lakes. Those are permanent advantages, and they explain why Boston, Baltimore, Philly, et al never reached the same heights.
That aside, the very great majority of workers in any metropolitan region do not have jobs that permit working from home.
So, the sort answer is, No, NYC will not suffer significant losses because of the pandemic.
ROBERT SYKES
May 15, 2020 at 8:00 AM
Syke’s Geo-economic answer is the correct one. Past a certain threshold of civilization within the population, regional prosperity is almost entirely a function of place. Sufficiently strategic places will always be overtaken by populations that can make use of them.
If NYC dips, that only means that it is largely doing so within the context of the rest of the economy. After this, most everywhere will still be wealthy or poor on the same relative scale.
Mills
May 16, 2020 at 9:02 AM
Besides Manhattan, Greater NYC isn’t all the desirable to White ppl. It’s a city teeming with a lot of undesirables (many of whom are immigrants and non-white).
Since the majority of the White professionals who live in Manhattan have the luxury of not wearing the shoes of the striving Asiatics in the Medical and Technological fields, because White privilege affords them a high paying, non-essential career and they can telecommute anywhere like a place in the Mohawk Valley. I expect this beautiful region flooded with White professionals in the coming decades (if Murkaprolestan survives this pandemic).
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 16, 2020 at 9:05 AM
OT:
MEH 0910
May 15, 2020 at 12:54 PM
Those bastards! After the disastrous finale of Picard, I thought I could safely write off CBS All Access, but now, they’ve drawn me back in.
Mike Street Station
May 16, 2020 at 10:17 AM
My thoughts exactly. I swore I’d never watch another Star Trek reboot after the bombshell revelation in the final episode of ‘Picard’ that Picard had always been in love with Data–a revelation which makes a mockery of the whole of TNG, given that it is utterly ridiculous to imagine Captain Picard having an unrequited, unspoken yearning for a male-looking robot during the events of the series.
prolier than thou
May 16, 2020 at 1:46 PM
Well in the future, everyone is gay, so that is less surprising than that they killed off Picard, everyone mourns, and then they decide to make a robot copy of him. It’s not Picard, Picard is still dead, but they are going to forget the real Picard to buddy up to the robot one. Ridiculous.
Mike Street Station
May 16, 2020 at 4:15 PM
The only good thing about Discovery was watching Klingons wiping out the Federation. And the Terran Empire.
map
May 17, 2020 at 12:21 AM
Haha, Picard is gay and loves a robot.
Didn’t he have one or two female love interests in TNG? Past lovers, that is.
Don’t worry. Real life is almost as ridiculous. Imagine being this guy, a high level officer in the Air Force or whatever, and having the privilege of unavailing the Starfleet Logo.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/space-force-flag-unveiled-in-oval-office-presented-to-trump
Lowe
May 17, 2020 at 12:20 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/15/manhattan-new-rentals-plunge-71percent-as-coronavirus-freezes-the-market.html
toomanymice
May 15, 2020 at 1:36 PM
My guess is that a small minority of the total workforce will work from home – at least the corporate workforce. There is too much inertia in the system, both financial and cultural. Bosses like to boss face to face. And most workers like the personal interaction of the workplace, at least to some extent.
Brendan
May 16, 2020 at 6:02 PM
If you can work from home, you can work from anywhere. Why would I hire people and have to pay high NYC or Silicon Valley salaries when I can hire someone who is just as skilled from a cheaper city, like Dallas, Houston, Seattle, Atlanta, Chicago or Boston?
GrassMudHorse
May 16, 2020 at 10:52 PM
Must see:
Curle
May 17, 2020 at 2:10 AM
Ok, what, who's this again?
May 17, 2020 at 11:04 AM
If true (and probably is true), indicates that they will not be leaving Manhattan for good.
MoreSigmasThanYou
May 17, 2020 at 10:48 PM
Great article. Mentions the bride price gap.
“Few girls from the outside want to marry young men in the village, and the bride price for girls in the village is lower than those from other places.“
http://m.chinadaily.com.cn/en/2016-05/25/content_25453124.htm
Curle
May 17, 2020 at 9:40 PM