Lion of the Blogosphere

Comment about (primary/secondary) education at the NY Times

Link to the article.

The comment posted by “L”:

I’m having to manage a modicum of Schadenfreude in an attempt to provide an equitable perspective on this situation. Having taught Americans, Europeans and Asians, I can’t help but think that now that they are confined with their own children for the bulk of the day, American parents are having to face the consequences of their own practices first hand, practices they’ve long asserted with the force of certainty and which aren’t producing largely self-motivated kids in need only of guidance. Teachers should not have to deal with the degree of indiscipline I found in American students. From a lot of them, I got the feeling they felt quite sufficient already without having to demonstrate any commitment. This is arrogance, not to be confused with self-esteem. It is something I hope never to deal with again. The qualities of focus and self-discipline have to be instilled at home. Generally speaking and of course with exceptions, I have noticed that since the 90s Americans are raising children to have less discipline, humility, respect and consideration than previously, and than I found in other nationalities. Make these qualities important and there is a higher likelihood they will be self-motivated and mature. Teachers are treated like underpaid staff without authority, and yet parents have abdicated responsibility for instilling qualities that set kids up to be self-sufficient. Teachers are quitting in droves. Parents have to raise your own children even if schools do reopen.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

June 30, 2020 at 11:38 AM

Posted in Education

37 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. “Half the kids aren’t raised by father. And more than half of the child rearing is abdicated to public schools and government.”

    How’s that working out?

    MoreSigmasThanYou

    June 30, 2020 at 2:20 PM

    • Don’t ask me, ask liberals.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 30, 2020 at 2:54 PM

      • There is a joke among teachers at schools that are a good cross section of society. (think schools in smaller towns where everyone goes to the same high school) The joke is that the problem with the remedial classes is that everyone is the class is literally a bastard.

        superdestroyer

        July 1, 2020 at 10:37 AM

      • Don’t forget, it’s not just a case of parents abdicating their responsibilities; liberals actually want children to be raised by public schools and the government. The technocratic mentality is that everything be run by “experts” in the relevant field, and ordinary people aren’t experts in child-rearing. It’s a sort of gnosticism, a belief that the best way to do something–like child-rearing–isn’t at all what a non-expert, believing himself to be informed by “common sense,” would think, that there’s a body of secret knowledge which can only be discovered by years of careful scientific study, revealing that the underlying reality of the way a child’s mind works is totally different from what an uneducated layman would think, and that inevitably the correct way to raise children turns out to be something that is incomprehensible, alien, and wrong-seeming to the layman’s mind.

        Hermes

        July 1, 2020 at 12:59 PM

  2. is this a joke?

    I’m having to manage a modicum of Schadenfreude in an attempt to provide an equitable perspective on this situation.

    no one with an IQ over 80 talks like this.

    still waiting!

    June 30, 2020 at 4:51 PM

    • No one with an IQ below 115 knows the meaning of Schadenfreude.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      June 30, 2020 at 5:04 PM

      • Maybe we can use ability to casually drop German words in your English to test IQ

        “Bratwurst” > 80
        “Blitzkrieg” > 95
        “Schadenfreude” > 115
        “Zeitgeist” > 120
        “Weltanschauung” > 125
        “Zugzwang” > 135

        Peter Akuleyev

        July 1, 2020 at 5:07 AM

      • Ha – that is actually a good test, because I would have pegged my IQ at about 125, and the last is the only one I never heard of.

        S.J., Esquire

        July 2, 2020 at 4:24 PM

      • Bratwurst” > 80
        “Blitzkrieg” > 95
        “Schadenfreude” > 115
        “Zeitgeist” > 120
        “Weltanschauung” > 125
        “Zugzwang” > 135

        Ironically, I know all these words except for Bratwurst and Zugswang. Go figure. MY IQ, based on an informal test I took, was 120. My aunt (a guido, btw) was also measured at 120. My Mom, who took a formal IQ test in high school (I don’t know which test it was, though) tested at 128. Do Lions readers think 120 sounds about right for me?

        Maryk (the g-loaded guidette)

        July 2, 2020 at 9:21 PM

    • The commenter’s writing style is somewhat stilted and awkward, like a person trying to sound smarter than he is, though I suppose it’s also possible English isn’t his first language.

      The comment is thus unclear to me, but the way I interpret it is that he’s saying that for a long time American parents have been believing that children don’t need discipline nor guidance from persons in positions of authority (parents,) but rather need only to be given the freedom to do whatever they choose, in the misguided belief that what they would naturally choose to do with this freedom is to educate and improve themselves, while schoolteachers have been frustrated having to deal with these undisciplined children in the classroom all day. Is that it?

      Because it’s my understanding that the “educational theorists” who run teachers’ schools are at the vanguard of these newfangled ideas about how children are innately good and just need to be given the freedom to explore their own interests. When I was in residency, there was a child psychiatrist on the faculty who considered her main area of interest to be child development, and she was obsessed with Montessori education. From what I gather, the above is what Maria Montessori believed. She even had some famous quote about “embracing the child as savior.” This child psychiatrist would talk as though Montessori education was going to bring about world peace. “Children raised this way wonder why we have wars,” she said. It was all about providing children with the right environment and just letting them learn whatever they want. Of course, that may work for a few high-IQ, good impulse control, low time preference white and Asian children, but it will never work for Quontavius from the ghetto.

      Lastly, I must say again that the near ubiquity of the word “kids” instead of “children” in even formal writing and speaking is a sign of the downfall of our civilization. I remind everyone again, this is a kid:

      Hermes

      June 30, 2020 at 9:34 PM

      • You’re being pedantic. Words lose, gain and shift meaning all the time. In linguistics this is called semantic shift.

        toomanymice

        July 1, 2020 at 1:01 PM

      • It’s not words shifting in meanings I’m bemoaning, but the decline in formality. I’m fine with slang existing, with people saying “kids” in everyday colloquial conversation, but presidential candidates giving speeches, or child psychologists being interviewed for magazine articles, should be using the words “mothers,” “fathers,” and “children.” The fact that even in such settings people speak of “moms,” “dads,” and “kids” is another sign of the very decline in standards being discussed in this post.

        Hermes

        July 2, 2020 at 2:28 PM

      • Lastly, I must say again that the near ubiquity of the word “kids” instead of “children” in even formal writing and speaking is a sign of the downfall of our civilization. I remind everyone again, this is a kid:

        Agreed; many such cases. I also deplore statements like “my kid” instead of the more proper-yet-affectionate “my son”.

        S.J., Esquire

        July 2, 2020 at 9:35 PM

    • Nobody with an IQ above 130 writes “modicum of Schadenfreude.” 115 to 130, right in the sweet spot for reading and commenting on the NYT.

      Yet another illustration of my favorite aphorism. Dumb people believe A. Smart people believe B. Really smart people believe A. The NYT is B in this case.

      Lowe

      June 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM

      • I agree with the writer that parenting standards have deteriorated.

      • “Yet another illustration of my favorite aphorism. Dumb people believe A. Smart people believe B. Really smart people believe A. The NYT is B in this case.”

        In recent years I’ve seen the ‘bimodal distribution’ of people too dumb to be indoctrinated, and people too smart to be indoctrinated. How many IQ points do I lose for saying ‘bimodal distribution’?

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        July 1, 2020 at 1:57 PM

  3. Generally speaking and of course with exceptions, I have noticed that since the 90s Americans are raising children to have less discipline, humility, respect and consideration than previously, and than I found in other nationalities.”

    High-sugar diets and overuse of pharmacology have not helped in this regard. Broken families are a huge factor. Single moms just can’t fulfill this roll in addition to their own already demanding job. It’s just not as stable of a bedrock here as it should be, and the result is about as best as could be expected.

    Jack

    June 30, 2020 at 5:59 PM

    • Access to video games and social media are certainly not helping. They may reduce crime by keeping kids distracted, but my observation is that video games allow kids to feel an unearned sense of achievement and accomplishment for doing very little at all. The amount of effort to become a competent Fortnite player is ridiculously low compared to the discipline needed to become a competent golfer or baseball player. The amount of effort and time needed to master guitar or violin is significantly higher than the amount of effort needed to churn out a 30 second Tik-tok Video. Kids are becoming much less resilient and more entitled. It is very hard for parents to combat this without disengaging from society entirely (Waldorf School, home schooling, or maybe joining the Amish).

      Peter Akuleyev

      July 1, 2020 at 5:13 AM

  4. This tracks with what I’ve read in the teacher subs at reddit. Though they’re so brainwashed they attribute the behavior to “poverty” and “trauma” at home. The teachers and counselors have to learn all these strategies for calming down (black) students “upset” because they saw the school cop in the hall, or some BS excuse for acting up.

    Looks like about a third never bothered with online classes, no one will flunk or get marked down. Online was a joke.

    Mrs Stitch

    June 30, 2020 at 5:59 PM

  5. Meriprolestan or now Murkaprolestan has been a dystopia for ages. Nothing new!

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    June 30, 2020 at 8:47 PM

  6. Lion desperately wants the world to remain shut down. Wonder why?

    toomanymice

    June 30, 2020 at 9:11 PM

    • I’ve been wondering that myself. My suspicion is that he thinks it will usher in a glorious age of UBI after the economy is destroyed. I’ve noticed that UBI supporters don’t believe that the economy has anything to do with providing goods and services and everything about “fatcats” which we can do without.

      Step One: Destroy economy by indefinite shutdown

      Step Two: ????

      Step Three: UBI Utopia!

      Mike Street Station

      July 3, 2020 at 7:54 AM

  7. “I have noticed that since the 90s Americans are raising children to have less discipline, humility, respect and consideration than previously, and than I found in other nationalities.”

    I’m sure there’s been some prole drift. But some of it is also liberal bullshit. Liberals get off on bashing America, especially in relation to Europe. They think it makes them sound superior. Liberals are driven by a need to feel superior to everyone else. I can’t be the only one who’s noticed.

    In reality, American students outperform nearly every country. https://tino.us/page/83/

    destructure

    July 1, 2020 at 1:01 AM

  8. My mother left her university position to raise my sister and me after I bitched relentlessly about pre-school. My dad, from a modest background, got a very good government job after doing very well on the civil service exam. College was reasonably priced. The economy facilitated family formation.

    I attended schools for some time in the South where the culture was overwhelmingly driven by protocols of respect and discipline. Children had their mouths washed out with soap if they cursed. Boys were allowed to settle their differences with fists, to a degree.

    When I was bused for a year to an inner city school at the beginning of busing I was astounded by the indiscipline, illiteracy and ambivalence toward school and learning exhibited by the black kids.

    Culture is downstream of biology and civilization is downstream of culture. That’s all there is to it.

    Curle

    July 1, 2020 at 11:21 AM

    • Parents are too nice to their kids these days. Kids are coddled and lazy and have no clear way to build character. Parents, myself included, are terrified of letting their children experience hardship.

      Lion I posted this article to reddit before seeing your blog. I’m not copying you. (The post was approved today, slow mods.)

      toomanymice

      July 1, 2020 at 12:53 PM

  9. “Lion desperately wants the world to remain shut down. Wonder why?” Where I live, one can now sit in a restaurant or bar, get a haircut, or go to a gym. Needless to say, I’m having none of it. Today my dentist’s office called to remind me of a cleaning scheduled pre-pandemic, and my reaction was basically “are you out of your mind?” Even when the shutdown is loosened or eliminated that doesn’t mean one can’t voluntarily adhere to a higher standard. I’ll take a subway or get into a taxi when I’m ready, which isn’t now.

    Anthony

    July 1, 2020 at 11:52 AM

    • Well, Lion’s (ex?) residential neighborhood of Hell’s Kitchen is literally a battleground with gazillions of dining and drinking establishments. Imagine this area is opened up for indoor dining and bar hopping. It would be a Covid-19 paradise, and Hell’s Kitchen would in fact be a Hell’s Kitchen.

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      July 1, 2020 at 12:45 PM

    • I am proud to say that ever since This Big Nothingburger of a Disease Thing began in March I have been out of the house for at least a short time every single day. No cowering indoors for me! True, I am an “essential employee” and have been working all along, but even on days off I’ve been out.
      Right now I’m seething with rage that Baby Mario won’t let gyms reopen, though a coalition of gym owners is trying to get a court order to overrule him,

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      July 1, 2020 at 1:43 PM

      • “Essential employee” is what we call a prole occupation in LoftB terms.

        The lovely thing about the Covid-19 pandemic is that we get to see the country in its full glory of SWPL BS and prole stupidity.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        July 4, 2020 at 11:12 AM

    • It’s a sad day when I have more bravery than a grown man.

      toomanymice

      July 1, 2020 at 9:28 PM

  10. OT:

    MEH 0910

    July 2, 2020 at 9:57 AM

    • I’ve already tweeted about this. Read my tweets!

      • I avoid having anything to do with Twitter. I consider it a public health menace.

        njguy73

        July 2, 2020 at 1:43 PM

  11. “Maybe we can use ability to casually drop German words in your English to test IQ
    “Bratwurst” > 80
    “Blitzkrieg” > 95
    “Schadenfreude” > 115
    “Zeitgeist” > 120
    “Weltanschauung” > 125
    “Zugzwang” > 135”

    This is really a phenomenally witty comment.

    anon

    anon

    July 2, 2020 at 1:21 PM

  12. “Yet another illustration of my favorite aphorism. Dumb people believe A. Smart people believe B. Really smart people believe A. The NYT is B in this case.”

    I’m disappointed that I didn’t write this-maybe I encountered it and subconsciously incorporated into my worldview 30 years ago. Because I have had, for several decades, my own personal (self-written) aphorism:

    Dumb people are conservative.
    Pseudo intellectuals are liberal.
    Genuinely intelligent people are conservative.

    Same thing as applied to politics.

    anon

    anon

    July 2, 2020 at 1:24 PM

    • I don’t expect a high IQ individual like Bill Gates or Noam Chomsky to be on the same page with any of the Republicans we have in office.

      The only smart Republican that I’ve come across is Michael Bloomberg, but in name only. He is a Democrat and ran as a member of the elephant gang for mayoral duties.

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      July 4, 2020 at 9:56 PM


Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: