Lion of the Blogosphere

Schools and the virus

I tweeted that yesterday.

Today it occurred to me that the push to re-open schools is an unholy alliance between Trumpists who deny that the virus is harmful and insist that it’s a global conspiracy to get Biden elected, so they want schools to open in order to boost the economy and Trump’s chances of winning reelection, and between leftist types who are more worried about the “gap” than they are about doing the right thing for the majority of the people in order to close the “gap” (which can’t be closed because of HBD).

Although there is strong evidence that children are less likely to catch and spread the virus than adults (and also that seniors are more likely to catch and spread the virus than younger adults, which is why the virus spreads so easily though nursing homes), and there are less likely to be outbreaks at schools than at adult work places, nevertheless, there have been outbreaks at schools in Israel. And there are teachers who caught the virus at summer school in Arizona. There have been outbreaks at youth camps. So outbreaks at schools can definitely happen, and surely will happen if we just reopen schools the way they were before the pandemic.

Some may argue it’s no big deal if children catch the virus at school because they rarely get sick from it. There are two problems with this argument. (1) We don’t fully know to what extent children’s long-term health could be impacted by the virus. It’s known that a small number of children get a serious condition they call multi-inflammatory syndrome after being exposed to the virus. (2) Children who catch the virus at school will go home and spread it to their parents who are at more risk. Even though children may not be as contagious as adults, let’s use some common sense. People living in the same household are going to catch it because of the large amount of time spent in close contact with each other. And this is true even if the point of entry into the household is a child. I’ve read that children shed half as much virus as adults, but that’s enough virus to spread it to adults in the same household.

With such a huge amount of virus in the United States, it’s not wise to open schools right now. In other countries, where the virus is more under control and the people act more responsibly and they have uniform national guidelines that are followed, those other countries are in much better shape to open schools than we are in the United States. Let’s let other countries do it first and learn from them.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

July 13, 2020 at 1:35 PM

49 Responses

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  1. Remember, it is not “closing the gap” because that could be done by lowering the quality of instruction to whites/asians as much as improving instruction to blacks/latinos.

    A better way to frame the issue is how can schools accelerate the educational improvement of blacks (and Latinos) much more quickly than the acceleration of educational of whites/Asians. That also eliminates the problem of trying to do things for blacks while leaving whites out of any new programs.

    However, if anyone really wants to improve black performance, having them read books while at home would work better than any form of online/distant learning.

    superdestroyer

    July 13, 2020 at 1:41 PM

  2. Although there is strong evidence that children are less likely to catch and spread the virus than adults (and also that seniors are more likely to catch and spread the virus than younger adults, which is why the virus spreads so easily though nursing homes), and there are less likely to be outbreaks at schools than at adult work places

    Even though children may not be as contagious as adults

    I’m not sure those are true. Various tests for the virus have found similar positivity rates for children as adults.

    As well, contact tracing is much harder to do with infected don’t show symptoms; it requires recall, which is much harder to do when you don’t know who infected you.

    What is true is that children typically experience a much milder form of the disease or are asymptomatic. But children are also most sheltered from the virus. Schools were among the most sheltered from the virus. Schools were some of the first things to go, which makes it hard to reliably assess true transmission rates among children. As you say, common sense alone would dictate that opening schools is a horrible idea.

    JayMan

    July 13, 2020 at 2:11 PM

  3. It has nothing to do with teaching or ideology, parents are just sick of being trapped at home with their kids all the time. Parents are used to getting 40 hours a week of free babysitting from the state, without that they lose their minds. You would do, if you had to watch over kids all day every day while also trying to work.

    ack-acking

    July 13, 2020 at 2:39 PM

  4. It is indeed a bi-partisan agreement that schools should remain open. Proles need to work (teaching in most K-12 schools is a prole endeavor) and by not working, it leads to a consumer spending free fall which would further harm our economy. The leftists want schools to remain open, because too many NAMs are seemingly food insecure, and schools provide the breakfast and lunch for their children.

    Just more redundancy for our useless fools and parasites that drag this country deeper into the abyss.

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    July 13, 2020 at 2:48 PM

  5. For almost anyone who isn’t old and/or (usually and ) sick it’s pretty much a nothingburger of a dissease.

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    July 13, 2020 at 2:52 PM

    • Only is you consider being hospitilized as a nothingburger. people need to stop think in binary of either dead or nothing much. President Trump has made the same mistake.

      superdestroyer

      July 13, 2020 at 4:21 PM

      • Hospitalizations are rare among the non-old/sick. The statistics are clear. In fact, they undoubtedly overestimate the effects of This Disease Thing because many of the infected non-old/sick have no symptoms at all.

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        July 13, 2020 at 5:38 PM

      • The ratio of hospitilizations to deaths is about 6 to 1 in Jun 2020. My guess is that most 20 soething are healthy enough that that kind fight off the infection even if admitted to the hospital versus an elderly person is more comorbidities.

        superdestroyer

        July 14, 2020 at 10:33 AM

  6. IIRC you were in favor of teaching blacks “bourgeois values” in school, though.

    IHTG

    July 13, 2020 at 2:56 PM

    • Unfortunately that teaching doesn’t happen, so no loss.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 13, 2020 at 3:28 PM

      • I hadn’t attended school between the ages of 14 and 16 and it was a great time in my life. I worked out, studied math and English and read, read, read…. Was totally amazing. Not for most people, but. Having a job for a few hours would have been good. 12 years of schooling is a waste. I’d entered H.S. with no credits and graduated in 2 years so that time off had not hurt me in any way. My grandkids aren’t able to spend their time productively and better off with a structure. Conclusion: people need structure, especially today with the mass media, and internet, and smart phones. For myself though, being a kid today I wouldn’t want to go to school in this country – too stupid.

        Yakov

        July 13, 2020 at 10:53 PM

  7. In 2018, 233 children became permanently crippled in the US due to AFM – I don’t recall you advocating to close the schools? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_flaccid_myelitis

    Boratb

    July 13, 2020 at 3:05 PM

    • I never heard of AFM.

      We don’t know if it’s only 233 children who will have serious complications from Covid-19, or if the numbers will be a lot greater than that. So much about this virus we don’t know yet.

      But it’s not just the children, it’s the children’s parents who are also at risk.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 13, 2020 at 3:31 PM

      • Also all of the school employees. Look up the type of people who drive the bus. Most of them are probably not going back to work if schools open.

        superdestroyer

        July 13, 2020 at 4:23 PM

  8. We’re debating sending our kid to school in the fall. We probably will end up sending him. You have to weigh the costs and benefits. This social isolation cant be good for kids, the risk of that severe complication is very very low, what I’ve read seems like less than 100 cases worldwide (though I’d appreciate being corrected). He hasn’t had much social interaction with other kids so when we signed him up our main hope was to get him socialized, it seems like for young kids there is a window when they’re best able to be socialized (although who knows if thats really true). Our state is less impacted than others and we have no old people in the house.

    Who really knows what the right thing to do is, seems like it’s on the edge so we’ll likely follow the herd.

    ConfusedFather

    July 13, 2020 at 3:17 PM

    • If you are able to homeschool your children, you should. Homeschooling doesn’t have to mean total social isolation, ideally you would homeschool in a bubble with other like-minded families, but that’s easier said than done.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      July 13, 2020 at 3:32 PM

      • Homeschooled children have abut the same average SAT score as all white children. In addition, one cannot build up the resume required for college admission while having your mother trying to teach you calculus.

        Instead of having a parent stay home and give up a good paying job, have both parents work and buy a home in a neighborhood with good schools. In addition to gett a college prep education, the mother builds up retirement savings that will be needed.

        superdestroyer

        July 13, 2020 at 4:25 PM

      • Exposing homeschooled children to children from other homeschooling families is better than social isolation, but it will leave them ill-prepared for being out in the real world when their school days are over. Most of the other kids with whom they will have associated will have been from religious nutjob families, and most people outside of the homeschooling community are not like that.

        Peter

        ironrailsironweights

        July 13, 2020 at 8:13 PM

      • There is a news piece about some media dud and his wife and 4 year old kid cooped up in their Chelsea, NYC apartment who moved somewhere in the foothills of the Catskills due to Covid-19. Out of the blue, he moves his family to the northwest of the Mid Hudson Valley and decides to send his son to an elementary school (known as the Homestead School) with proles who live in the sticks n stones. Either the move is a lesser of evils, since Manhattan schools are riddled with NAMs, or an alternative evil, since his child will be robbed of any virtue signaling status and de-facto elite status, because he is far removed from SWPL Manhattan. Either way, Manhattan SWPLs are evil, because they are always trying to exploit NAMs and proles to their advantage.

        https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/coronavirus/2020/06/06/hudson-valley-home-sales-heat-up-with-spike-in-nyc-buyers/111916552/

        But then maybe not. This school seems like an elite school (a Montessori School that focuses on virtue signalling SWPL achievements) by the sticks n stones that has a few sprinkle of NAMs, but virtually no Eastern Asiatics in sight as I’ve been saying all along.

        https://www.greatschools.org/new-york/glen-spey/5909-The-Homestead-School/

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        July 13, 2020 at 9:12 PM

      • I home schooled for all of high school.

        Most geographic areas have multiple home-school groups available. This website lets you put in your zip code, and see a few of them:

        https://my.hslda.org/groupsearch

        When I was home schooling, I went on field trips with other home schoolers, and got hand me down books from them.

        Someone else wrote:

        “one cannot build up the resume required for college admission while having your mother trying to teach you calculus”

        That’s not correct. I hired a college admissions coach a year ago. It turns out that unless you’re a NAM or the child of a power-broker, getting into an elite school is really hard and requires tons of extracurriculars.

        A smart strategy is to get all your book-learning done early (including taking the SAT in Junior year), so that you can spend your senior year doing volunteering, competitions, and the like. Some elite schools are now asking applicants not only what the did in the summer between junior and senior year, but also the summer between sophomore year and junior year.

        Why don’t you try getting some of the books your local school uses for next year, and try teaching from them? If you poke around the web, you might be able to get them used, or better yet, find a free .pdf along with audio files, like these:

        http://glhssocialstudies.weebly.com/civics-textbook—pdf-copy–audio.html
        http://glhssocialstudies.weebly.com/us-history-textbook—pdf-copy–audio.html

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        July 13, 2020 at 10:48 PM

      • The so called “good school districts” are shit as well. I know that first hand because I saw the public school system’s decline in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Even if you exclude bad influences and NAMs the curriculum at these schools is garbage mostly consisting of “racism, sexism, homophobia” and other forms of indoctrination which president Trump has rightfully called out.

        Public schools also suffer from inner district transfers which relocate the ghetto to suburbia much like Section 8 housing. Unless you attend a charter school which acts as a private school within the public school system framework and is a model supported by Trump but NOT Lion you’re basically fucked.

        The solution to all problems of course is to be rich.

        eradican

        July 13, 2020 at 11:02 PM

      • I forgot to add that the less public school the better.

        Keep those disease, propaganda, drug, and degeneracy vectors shut down permanently I say.

        eradican

        July 13, 2020 at 11:05 PM

      • “Homeschooling doesn’t have to mean total social isolation, ideally you would homeschool in a bubble with other like-minded families, but that’s easier said than done”

        The aforementioned Homestead School by the Catskills might be a prime example of SWPLs redefining status or moving the goal post by adapting to the changes caused by Covid-19 that proles and NAMs are too stupid and/or poor to adapt, and Eastern Asiatics lacking the creativity or spirit to adapt. Outdoor learning in the woods that focuses on leadership and “middle class values”, the curriculum could also include outdoor social distancing with a focus on academics on top of forestry. Since indoor schooling is a high risk environment in contracting the virus, while outdoor schooling is the opposite.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        July 13, 2020 at 11:20 PM

      • “Homeschooled children have abut the same average SAT score as all white children. In addition, one cannot build up the resume required for college admission while having your mother trying to teach you calculus.”

        This speaks to deeper problems in our society. Why can’t we just let intelligent and academically-inclined kids go to high-quality and affordable college without going through the rat race of college admissions?

        I don’t see any reason why a student can’t just read books and achieve some general education in high school. Specialist teaching can wait for college.

        alex2

        July 14, 2020 at 12:03 AM

      • “The solution to all problems of course is to be rich”

        The rich aren’t much of a problem, because they are rich. They usually define the rules for everyone else.

        Here’s what I see with the fate of NAMs (particularly blacks) in the near future:

        Covid-19 is a god sent for all Whites who want to genuinely segregate from NAMs. NAMs aren’t well suited for the sticks n stones. The destruction of our urban areas from the pandemic allow Whites to move back to their natural state, while NAMs are suffering heavily in the cities and left to their own devices. Essential White employees will always serve their SWPL parasitic overlords as 1st priority.

        If you’re smart enough to make the connection, Covid-19 is just another reinforcement of White Supremacy in its highest order. The abandonment of cities by the White Upper classes will be the end for most NAMs.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        July 14, 2020 at 10:10 AM

      • Alex2,

        One of the under-discussed aspect of schools is the the push to cover topics in earlier grade levels. IN the 1970’s algebra was for high school. Now anyone on the selective college track had better be in albegra in 8th grade and anyone wanting the STEM track at a selective university need algebra in 7th grade. Also, statistics was something that was not taught in the 1970’s but is something that is being pushed into lower grades. I see high school sophomores and juniors who want to discuss their linear regressions and p-values (something that most students did not cover until grad school) because it is something that even Excel can calculate. The real problem know is that the high school students are ahead of their teachers who are still teaching confidence intervals using tables and pocket calculators. .

        superdestroyer

        July 14, 2020 at 10:32 AM

      • “Even if you exclude bad influences and NAMs the curriculum at these schools is garbage mostly consisting of “racism, sexism, homophobia” and other forms of indoctrination”

        Yeah, it’s heavier than ever. That degree of anti-white indoctrination is child abuse. Even if your child rejects it completely, they’re surrounded by other children who accept it. Today children are being primed to abuse each other.

        Outdoor learning in the woods that focuses on leadership and “middle class values”, the curriculum could also include outdoor social distancing with a focus on academics on top of forestry.

        Years ago, I thought about what it would take to run a low budget educational program for gifted children. Sitting under a tree while holding discussions was part of the plan. I may actually be implementing a version of this.

        MoreSigmasThanYou

        July 14, 2020 at 5:34 PM

    • “He hasn’t had much social interaction with other kids so when we signed him up our main hope was to get him socialized, it seems like for young kids there is a window when they’re best able to be socialized”

      There have been studies showing that the oldest child in a family tends to be more mature and responsible than the younger children. The reason is that the oldest child was socialized by their adult parents. Whereas the younger children were socialized by their other siblings. This conforms to my personal experience with my own children.

      So my question would be… just exactly what kind of “socialization” are you trying to accomplish by having your child raised by other children? You want them to be “cool” and “fit in”? You’re worried they’ll be “nerds” or something? Well, there’s much worse than being a nerd. My children go to school. But the last thing I want for them is that they be “just like everyone else”. To be honest, I’m not very impressed with most people. So I’m aiming a little higher for them both academically and personally.

      I will, however, agree that there are a lot of weird home schooled children. But I think that has less to do with them being home schooled and more to do with their families being weird to start with. Normal families who home school have normal children. But there aren’t as many normal families homeschooling. So it seems like homeschooling makes children weird when that’s not the case.

      Back to your son, specifically. There’s really no reason to send him to school for kindergarten. We didn’t send our oldest to school until 2nd grade. He was reading well beyond his grade level and knew his sums. So he wasn’t behind. He was however more independent and mature than the other children. Although, if my wife had coddled him then I suppose he would have been less independent and mature. He’s now at university and still very independent and mature.

      destructure

      July 14, 2020 at 4:33 PM

  9. Shouldn’t the gap get smaller when blacks are removed from chaotic classrooms? Studying at home would allow them to concentrate without bullies, gangbangers, drug dealers and generic troublemakers fucking it up for serious students.

    Brendan

    July 13, 2020 at 5:36 PM

    • IME even in the worst schools there are a handful of well behaved students who genuinely want to learn. The sad thing is oftentimes these kids are dumb as rocks, but still would be better off in an official learning environment than watching youtube at home.

      If I were in charge of schools, I would segregate kids based on behavior, not intelligence.

      toomanymice

      July 14, 2020 at 12:10 PM

  10. ‘I honestly do not understand why so many conservatives are hell-bent on sending kids back to public schools.

    Forget the health angle: this is the single greatest opportunity to convert Americans to homeschooling in the history of the homeschooling movement.’

    Most conservatives aren’t interested in doing the hard work anymore to drive change in this society.

    It’s all just a culture war to them now. Gay, abortion, military. That’s all they care about. Policies that benefit the American people be damned.

    Kaz

    July 13, 2020 at 5:44 PM

  11. Superdestroyer – Good schools are a myth. I live in an expensive area with a top school district and very high SAT scores. The schools no longer teach spelling, science, writing, grammar, history, social studies, or computers. They do teach reading, math word problems, and stupid “STEM” tap tap touch ipad games. The reading and math word problems are for the standardized tests, and the stupid games are for STEM mania. Having the kids at home has been so enlightening. I knew my kids weren’t learning in school, but now I see how little the teachers actually teach. Open the schools or close them, I don’t know the right answer. I worry about the lack of socialization from staying home, but there is also a lot of harmful socialization at school too. I feel the ideal is to have a small group of people to educate children together like Lion wrote.

    Stilicho

    July 13, 2020 at 6:37 PM

    • “I knew my kids weren’t learning in school, but now I see how little the teachers actually teach.”

      Yeah, that was exactly my mother’s impression when I started home schooling.

      “I worry about the lack of socialization from staying home, but there is also a lot of harmful socialization at school too. I feel the ideal is to have a small group of people to educate children together like Lion wrote.”

      Yeah, that’s the main thing that my wife worries about – harmful socialization at school. If you want, you can pick and choose your children’s peer group by putting them into a specific youth group that fits the character you want them to develop.

      MoreSigmasThanYou

      July 13, 2020 at 11:20 PM

    • @Stilicho

      I’ll agree that education before high school is mostly fictional, and largely about peer group selection. I think it’s been this way for a very long time though.

      The brains of pre-pubescent children aren’t really able to handle more mathematics than arithmetic — there was a study demonstrating that all of arithmetic can be learned in 6 months. They can learn about the world and about history, but if they don’t have an interest in it, they won’t retain anything, even if it’s taught to them. If they do, they’ll read about it in their free time and learn it anyway while also expanding their vocab, reading comprehension, and writing abilities.

      I do think AP credits in high school are no joke though. I was able to finish college in 3 years, and that was despite taking a lighter-than-normal load much of the time, which really helped me maximize my GPA while also holding a part-time job.

      Wency

      July 14, 2020 at 9:50 AM

    • Great observations I agree public school is trash regardless of school district.

      eradican

      July 14, 2020 at 10:56 AM

  12. It’s the teachers. The ones on reddit are shittin’ a brick, at least the ones whose districts say they’re going back to class next month.

    And those teachers skew young, too. But it’s clear no one really has a workable plan. It’s a clusterfuck already.

    About 30% of the students never logged in. The ones who did well were the ones who always do well. So the pisspoor students will be on the streets potentially. Will WoW keep them busy?

    Mrs Stitch

    July 13, 2020 at 7:03 PM

    • Oh hell I’m all over the place.

      Yes it’s the NAMs everyone’s worried about.

      But they’re barely there even in the classroom! Many never do any work, won’t put down the phone, accuse the teacher of bias, and parents threaten to sue. But are socially promoted. If they keep showing up they’ll be graduated.

      So now online they’re not doing anything, can’t be flunked, and it’s going to be all too obvious that it’s been a charade all along. It’s really rather amusing.

      It’s not the poor hapless schools. It’s the students.

      Mrs Stitch

      July 13, 2020 at 7:31 PM

  13. More pants shitting in complete defiance of the actual numbers in all countries under all lockdown, or lack thereof, scenarios.
    Children are rarely, if ever, adversely impacted by this. The few that have been affected were seriously ill to begin with.
    Based on all available evidence, there are no exceptions to this.
    Of course, you have no children, so that makes you an expert.
    Do you ever even read the actual numbers from the CDC, or other authorities, or are you still running with the models Fauci used to terrify everyone back in March?

    Another Dave

    July 13, 2020 at 7:57 PM

  14. If masks work, then just open everything.

    Mike Street Station

    July 13, 2020 at 8:44 PM

    • Teachers think they won’t be able to keep masks on kids esp k-8. That it’ll devolve into a scofflaw joke.

      Mrs Stitch

      July 14, 2020 at 12:55 PM

  15. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

    They never closed the schools. Since their population is about 11 million, multiply the numbers by 30 to find out how your estimates stack up. Looks like so far, deaths of people under 70 add up to about 600, translating to roughly 20,000 in the US for the let ‘er rip scenario. But we saved 30 school kids.
    That being said, this is a golden opportunity to jump start home schooling on a massive scale. I’m pro-Trump, because he is a symbol and the people who hate him by and large hate me. But that doesn’t mean republicans aren’t idiots.

    Dmon

    July 13, 2020 at 9:10 PM

  16. Homeschooling = parents actually doing stuff

    Ergo, homeschooling = a thing that ain’t happening

    Q.E.D.

    njguy73

    July 13, 2020 at 11:23 PM

  17. No one and I mean no one should take parenting advice from lion. He has brazenly said if he had children he would pimp them out to instagram.

    Also, since everyone who doesn’t attend ivy league should just jump off a bridge already, don’t homeschool. It will harm you child’s chance of admission to Yale.

    toomanymice

    July 14, 2020 at 12:14 PM

    • It is kind of funny when someone without children gives parenting advice. Not that having children makes one infallible or anything. But at least they have some actual knowledge and experience with the subject.

      destructure

      July 14, 2020 at 4:57 PM

    • Props on knowing Yale is superior to Harvard. Your children will go far.

      eradican

      July 17, 2020 at 7:05 AM

    • “Also, since everyone who doesn’t attend ivy league should just jump off a bridge already, don’t homeschool”

      No, anyone who doesn’t attend a top tier school might reconsider homeschooling. A word of advice is not to attend a college that Non-Ivy Republican candidates have attended, in other words, a school that most have never heard of.

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      July 17, 2020 at 9:02 AM

  18. “I honestly do not understand why so many conservatives are hell-bent on sending kids back to public schools.”

    It’s been pointed out there are conservatives who insist the virus came out of an evil Chinese lab, yet they steadfastly refuse to wear a mask. Lunacy.

    Vince

    July 15, 2020 at 9:39 AM


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